166: Karen Read Investigator's TEXTS FROM HELL, Woman Stabs 3-Year-Old At Grocery Store, & An International Manhunt 44:08

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Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialistly. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. Headline, highlights, edition, because boy, oh boy, we have got so much to talk about today. I mean, there are some insane, insane, insane text messages that were reviewed in the Karen Reid trial this week and some even crazier details just...

regarding the case in general. Plus, I'm sure so many of you have heard there is this horrific murder of a little boy in front of a grocery store. He was stabbed and the murderer in court, she was like doubling down on it, like smiling directly into the court camera. Super creepy. There's an international manhunt going down. There's, I mean, there's just a

a lot to talk about today. So I'm just going to jump right into everything. And what I want to do is I want to start with this international manhunt. So I saw this story pop up last week, and I ended up sharing it on Twitter or X or whatever it is, you know, however you refer to it as, but I was under the impression that these people involved in this story were missing.

But now, it seems like there actually might be way more to this story than I thought, and it's actually pretty crazy. So let me break down kind of what's going on for you and backtrack a little and explain. So, local and federal law enforcement officers are currently searching for three people. 21-year-old Erin Ong, 21-year-old Nadia Cole, and then also Erin's 2-year-old little girl, Soraya Ong Harmon.

Erin and Nadia are allegedly engaged, and little Soraya is Erin's daughter from a previous relationship.

So Pullman Washington police said that Aaron, who lives in Moscow, Idaho, was seen buying camping equipment and also seen buying a map of Montana. He was initially believed to have taken his daughter camping in Montana. However, all of that changed on May 29th. This is when Nadia was reported missing by her family. So now the police don't believe that Aaron ever went to Montana at all, that maybe that was all a ruse, maybe this was too...

put people off his trail, off his scent. It's now looking very, very shady.

Now, the details of Nadia's disappearance are bizarre to say the absolute least. Apparently, she was literally inside the airport, like at the gate, about to get on a plane to go to Italy. This trip was with her family, and it was supposed to be a celebration since she had just graduated from WSU. So she's at this airport right by the gate getting ready to board her plane. But then she decided to go to the bathroom. When she went to the bathroom, she was never seen by her family again.

So Nadia's family hired a private investigator who has also spoken out now to the media and said that she left her belongings at the airport gate when she went to go use the restroom, but then she was later seen leaving the airport with what they describe as a distressed expression.

The last known sighting of Nadia was outside the airport near a light rail platform, and her family is obviously, like, completely frantic and panicked. They have no idea what happened, why she would have just up and vanished, essentially, leaving all of her belongings behind, and they released a statement in which they said, "...were utterly devastated by her disappearance, and we are praying for her safe return."

So then following this, the police in Pullman, Washington announced that they actually had an arrest warrant for Aaron. This was on charges of custodial interference after he didn't return his daughter, Soraya, to her mother at that custody exchange that was supposed to be set up for June 3rd.

But then it gets even more bizarre, guys. So police now actually believe that Nadia, Aaron, and Soraya are all together in a black 2014 Cadillac that has Idaho license plates, and that they're heading to Mexico, or were heading to Mexico, I should say.

It's unclear if they've already made it into Mexico or if maybe they were on the way when the police notified the public to be aware and to report any sightings of their vehicle. But either way, the FBI is now involved and now an international manhunt is ongoing, all in hopes of locating them and, of course, baby Soraya, who now once again are all believed to be in Mexico.

Unfortunately, there isn't a lot much else to this backstory about what might be going on, how we got here, what's really happening, and at least I'll say there's not much to the backstory for the public that we know now. However, Soraya's mom, Samara, has spoken out to the media. The little girl, the little shared daughter's mother. She spoke out to the media, and in a statement to Aaron, she said the following...

Please just bring her home. That's all I care about. That's all the police care about right now. Just bring her home, please. I am begging you with every bit of me. I know that we've had issues in the past and all of that, and I'm not even focusing on that. I just want to see my daughter again. I just need to know that she's okay. Please, please, please bring her home.

just truly a desperate plea for help from this mother. And just, I can't even imagine how distraught she must be right now, wondering where they are. Have they, you know, did they flee to Mexico? Um,

Are they all hiding out? Why would Nadia go along with this? And if she was going to flee, why do it when she already was at the airport getting ready to board her plane? Did she get a phone call or a text message from him? Maybe saying like, hey, we got to go. Shit's amiss or who knows what he could have said. And maybe that's why she was seen leaving the airport with this distressed expression on her face.

And she wants to be with him. They want to be in love. Maybe he lied and said it's to protect the daughter. Who really knows? But let's just, everybody, not only keep this family in your thoughts and prayers, but also keep an eye out. If you see anything, if you hear anything, if you live in Mexico and see that description of the 2014 black Cadillac, I mean, just let's see where this goes. And I will definitely keep you guys updated on this case as more information becomes available.

Speaking to cases with horrific, horrific outcomes and monsters involved, not saying anybody in that other case is necessarily a monster yet, kind of actually, I take that back if you're, you know, interfering with custodial issues, but sorry, I'm ranting here, guys, but I want to talk about this grocery store murder because it's one that is a case that is very, very difficult to hear about.

But I do think it's very important that we cover it for a multitude of reasons. Not only have so many of you guys been requesting that we cover this, but also I think it does go to the core values of this podcast of really wanting to raise awareness and help people.

educate the public on what different things to look for and different things to be cautious of. I gotta just throw it out there before we get into it. You may have seen all over TikTok. It's now been on like Inside Edition. It's been on Daily Mail. This whole like shopping cart debacle with Dr. Leslie who has been featured on this podcast and I give her shit for it all the time. I actually saw her yesterday and said, why don't you just return your shopping cart? Like it's serious. Like I don't understand but I get it. She has her own reasons which I'm not going to go into this whole thing but

But the reason I say that is because, and I'm not saying that she's justified or, you know, again, form your own opinions. But the reason I bring that up is because this did happen while a mother was loading her groceries. And it has nothing to do with returning your shopping cart or not. Please don't get misled.

led by what I'm saying. I'm just saying, again, it goes back to the core values of generating awareness of always watching your back, especially in these public parking lots, whether it's a grocery store, a Target Center, because people, predators love to pray in Target Centers because they see you in the toy aisle and they'll follow you outside. But let me break down this case for you. I've ranted long enough. So recently in Ohio, a three-year-old boy was attacked when he was leaving the grocery store with his mom.

Three-year-old Julian Wood and his mom Margo had just finished shopping, and Margo was opening up her trunk when then this woman named Bianca Ellis ran up to them and just started stabbing. She was stabbing Julian in the face and in the back, and then she ran away. During the incident, Bianca also stabbed the mother Margo in the shoulder, and she got stabbed because she was trying to get baby Julian out of the shopping cart and away from this lunatic who was just stabbing this innocent three-year-old boy.

So after the stabbing and after Bianca ran away, the two of them were taken to the local hospital where unfortunately then three-year-old Julian passed away. Going back to lunatic Bianca, she allegedly had stolen these knives from a thrift store that was right next to the grocery store and then surveillance camera caught her following Margo and Julian around the store before then blitz attacking them in the parking lot.

Now, some footage that is going absolutely viral right now has to do with Bianca's court appearance because Bianca had an arraignment on Monday where she was literally seen smiling and giggling, all while her charges, which included aggravated murder and attempted murder, were being read out loud. And not only was she giggling, guys, it is the most eerie and creepy footage I have seen in a while. She's looking straight ahead,

at the judge as like the judge is talking to her the judge asks her like hey did your public defender read you the charges or the indictment or whatever it was and she's like I told her not to read it told her I didn't want to know like just clearly not taking it very seriously and not really caring but also not with like a facial expression or a personality or mannerisms or anything like that that looked as though she was disturbed or that she was

you know for lack of a better word you know unstable mentally to where she was like not understanding and not comprehending she just looked plain evil like dead staring the judge like didn't want to read it didn't want her to read it to me like yes no then this camera that's in the courtroom imagine if you're looking straight ahead and there's a camera like at a 45 degree angle that's on you that's how a lot of these courtrooms are so it's like it's catching you it's catching your facial expressions but you're not making eye contact with the lens so

She then, as she's talking to this judge, as she's talking back, she looks over to the side of her, makes eye contact with the camera in the direct lens of the camera, looks it dead on as if she's like eyeing somebody down and just stares at it and smiles. It is the most bone chilling thing I think I have seen in such a long time.

It really is horrific. And now she's, of course, charged with all of this. And Julian's dad, the little boy's dad, was pleading with the judge to not let her out. And ultimately, the judge gave her a $5 million bond, which, thank God. But here's where it gets even worse. And we talk all the time about the system failing, about why things weren't caught ahead of time, how it could possibly have saved somebody if things were done right, if protocol was followed.

I don't know what the answer is. As frustrated as I am that this seems to always happen, I don't have an answer. I don't have a solution, so I guess I'm part of the problem. But over the past few days, more information has been coming out about Bianca and also about Bianca's prior history. Her mother has also spoken to the media saying that Bianca struggles with her mental health and that she suffers from hallucinations and that she recently also quit taking her medication. But let's give some backstory here because it's my opinion...

that this murder and this tragedy of this innocent three-year-old could have easily been prevented. And here's why. Records show that in January, she was arrested in California, and she was charged with three counts of battery on a person. This was after she assaulted three different people. Then in February, she went to the police in Ohio, and she told them, outright told them, that she wanted to confess to a murder, and that she had murdered this woman in California, and that she wanted to kill again.

She was taken to the hospital for an evaluation, but ultimately the Bakersfield Police Department, which Bakersfield is in California, they had determined that the murder confession was not credible and that it also didn't match up with any unsolved cases that they were currently investigating.

Fast forward another month in March, and she was arrested in Florida after she refused to leave a hotel. She was claiming that she wanted to be arrested as well. Then she was arrested again in Ohio toward the end of May. This was on May 30th to be specific. She was also referred by the magistrate for a mental health evaluation after this arrest. So clearly a pattern almost every single month so far this year. Then, most recently, on May 30th.

So she's referred for a mental health evaluation. However, just one day later, a judge let her leave because apparently there wasn't anybody who was available to evaluate her. And because of that, she would have been held in jail for days on what was what they said, a very minor case.

Because remember, she had only been arrested in Ohio towards the end of May. So now they're saying, you know, we don't have a mental health professional to evaluate her. One will not become available for several days. Meanwhile, we're not going to hold her in the jail for multiple days until that mental health professional is available. So let's just release her. Three days after she was released, guys, is when she stabbed Julian and his mom, Margo.

Again, I don't have the answers. It's so frustrating, and I'm sure it is frustrating for all of you guys to hear this case as well. But had there been more resources, had there been stricter policies in place, maybe she would have been held until she was evaluated. Maybe she would currently still be in a facility. Maybe she would be on medication to where she wouldn't go and attack an innocent three-year-old. It just seems like she had all of these arrests, all of these things leading up to it,

And then she was let go. And then look what happened three days later. Not to mention that whether she has mental health issues or not, she confessed to murdering somebody. Whether she had or not is a different story. But like clearly a woman who was unwell. She also had battery charges. She had other arrests. She claimed she wanted to be arrested. There was a pattern here. So then to just release her?

Even if the charge was minor for that specific most recent arrest, wouldn't you think, hey, let's look at her track record. Let's look at her history. Clearly, she could be a danger to society. If we have the ability, let's hold her until we can get her evaluated or put her on like, I don't know, 5150 or something like that. It just, it really enrages me and it breaks my heart for this family who,

just went to the grocery store right they just went to get groceries she had her three-year-old son with her and this lunatic comes parading out in the middle of the afternoon and blitz attacks them and stabs her child to death and then now learning in hindsight her backstory and that she was released just three days earlier it's just incredibly incredibly infuriating

And that's not even one of the worst things we're talking about today, guys, because we still have so much more to talk about. I am going to get a drink of water. I'm going to gather my thoughts for a minute. So we're going to take a quick break and then I will be right back.

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Alright guys, so let's get back into what we're talking about today. I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about a case that we have talked about on here before. I will link the deep dive for you, but it is an incredibly frustrating and puzzling case, and it is the case of Madalena Kojikari.

There have been some updates in this case, and if you're unfamiliar with the case, Madalena was last seen getting off her school bus back in November of 2022. And then it was like she vanished. She was never seen again. There were a lot of conflicting reports, things back and forth, that the mother was involved, that the stepfather was involved, that the stepfather was abusive, but then also that the mother was trying to hide Madalena to protect her, and...

It's been really confusing, but in any event, nobody had reported her as missing. I'll get into why. And nobody has been held responsible, and I'll get into why. But still, nobody has seen Madalena.

And once again, say it with me, I'll get into why. So her mother Diana and the stepfather Chris had ended up reporting her missing three weeks after her disappearance. But the only reason that they reported her as missing is because a truant officer from the school had called her mom saying, hey, we need to set up a meeting to discuss why Madalena hasn't been at school in weeks.

So her mom really had no other choice, but now she was going to show up to this meeting without Madalena, without any sort of explanation. So she had no choice but to report her as missing. So she reports her as missing, but then in December of 2022, both Chris and Diana ended up being arrested and charged with failure to report the disappearance of a child.

In May of this year, though, Diana ended up pleading guilty and then was released from jail after the judge said that she had spent the maximum amount of time in jail for that specific charge. But Chris, on the other hand, he did not. Instead, he went to trial where he actually blamed Madalena's mom for all of this, saying that he didn't think that Madalena would be found because he thought that Diana had tucked her away somewhere, all away, hidden away with her Moldovian family.

Chris said, quote, Now, his brother even testified that about six months before Madalena's disappearance, both Chris and Diana had come to his house separately, saying that Diana was worried about people from her past, worried about them tracking her, and that they wanted his help to help hide Diana, help hide Madalena.

So basically, the defense was that Chris didn't actually even know that Madalena was missing because he believed that Diana had this master plan to hide Madalena all to protect her. However, the prosecution showed texts, emails, phone calls, even a Google search, which was made on Chris's phone about truancy, which all proved that Chris knew that Madalena was missing, yet he didn't report her as missing.

So Chris was found guilty by the jury literally within 15 minutes. This was on May 31st. But here's what's frustrating. He was given a suspended sentence, and he was given 30 months of supervised probation instead.

Then, on June 10th, Chris ended up filing for divorce from Diana. And in the documents, he states that he has been separated from her since the day that they were arrested back in December 20 of 22, which, yes, true, because you both have been separated, you've both been in jail. But when Diana was released from jail, a reporter from WSOC9 asked Diana some very pointed questions about Madalena. She asked if Madalena was safe, and Diane responded, I hope so.

So the reporter then responded, you hope you know where she is? And Diana said, I hope she is safe.

So still nobody has been held accountable in a real way for Madalena's disappearance. Nobody knows if she is alive, dead, hidden away with Moldovan family somewhere. Was her mom suffering from delusions? Was this a cover-up because Madalena was abused and then ended up dying as a result? I did, like I said, I did the full deep dive on this case, and it really is angering and blows your mind because, I don't know, I don't want to say this, like,

Let me just start with this. It's all alleged at this point. But when we did do that deep dive, there was a lot of talk about like drug trafficking, about trafficking in general, about again, child abuse. So there are some really nefarious theories out there.

I don't want to air them too much right now. You can listen to the deep dive to get fully caught up on this case, but it is one that has outraged the true crime community as a whole because there have not been any answers. There have not been any people arrested and held accountable again in a real way. So we'll see what happens, but it's one that we have been following very closely. So I will let you know as any more information comes out, and hopefully more information does come out relatively quickly.

Now I want to move into Karen Reed because boy, oh boy, guys, this week was a doozy in the Karen Reed trial. I'm not doing a isolated Karen Reed trial recap this week, but I am going to give you basically the recap in this episode because even if you haven't been following this case, you've got to hear these text messages, guys, and I encourage you to follow this case. What is so interesting is it was kind of like...

I feel like this Karen Reid case was kind of like a sleeper case in the sense that people in the true crime world, in the media, they were all following it. They were covering it. But it wasn't really anything that took the public by storm, I should say, where, you know, regular like individuals were interested in this case until recently, until probably the past like two weeks. And now I feel like,

all these people are interested in this case but they're like okay well we're already in day 20 whatever of trial like how am I going to catch up that's what the recaps are for first of all but people want to know about this case because it really is interesting so I will actually link our

full comprehensive episode of this case if you have never heard of it so that you can get caught up in one quick listen then if you want you can go through the trial recaps that I've been posting week to week on here just so that you can like hear those and follow along I do very high level takeaways so that it's a quick way to digest the information but you definitely want to know about this case because it is crazy amazing

I have a feeling she's going to be found not guilty. It's just, or there's going to be a mistrial. I don't know. It is wild, but let me get into these text messages. So backtracking a little bit. If you've been following the Karen Reed case, you know that one of the most central law enforcement officers that is tied to this investigation is none other than trooper Michael Proctor. He's with the Massachusetts state police as the lead investigator. In this case, he has come under like intense, intense, intense scrutiny from the defense for like a number of reasons. Um,

For example, the defense has insinuated that he and his supervisor may have actually planted pieces of evidence, pieces of taillight at the scene after Karen's car was later towed from her parents' house.

They've also suggested that this was a complete chop job investigation from the get-go. They've also said that his relationship with Brian Albert, the homeowner of 34 Fairview where that house party went down and where John was found dead, and his relationship with the Albert family in general has really affected Trooper Proctor's ability to objectively investigate this case from the start, and that the goal was really to pin everything on Karen Reed to cover up what truly happened inside 34 Fairview, which

for those who I'm referring to it as 34 Fairview, but that's the address of the house party that night where John was found dead out front of. Now, this, of course, has always been adamantly denied by the prosecution, right? However, despite the district attorney quite literally going on camera and saying that Trooper Proctor has no relation, no relationship to any of these people involved or the homeowners, those specific allegations from the defense have proven to be true.

As it stands right now, state police confirmed that in March, Trooper Proctor was the subject of an internal investigation for a potential violation of department policy. And according to NBC 10 Boston, it's been said that the investigation into him is in fact connected to the Karen Reed case.

So in the defense's opening statements, they mentioned that they would show evidence that, quote, Proctor was texting with his high school buddies about this supposedly secret investigation using his personal cell phone. This text exchange happening just hours after John O'Keefe's body was found. Also, side note for those who haven't been following, John O'Keefe is a fellow Boston police officer.

So it's no surprise at all that when Trooper Michael Proctor was called to the stand, I mean, all eyes around the country were on him, on this trial, on him specifically. And I am telling you right now, never, never in my mother effing life have I seen an officer in general, let alone a lead investigator on a case, be such a complete shitstorm. So we got to talk about it.

On direct exam, the DA went through all of the routine questions, entered in some of the evidence, then did all this, but then they brought up some of Trooper Proctor's text messages that he sent in a group text with his buddies from high school. Because yes, he thought it was a good idea and that it was okay to send messages on his personal cell phone regarding an ongoing investigation. Not only that, but an ongoing investigation in the death of a fellow police officer.

and also an investigation that he was the lead investigator on. Like, conflict of interest? Sharing privileged information? What is happening here? And here's the thing. All of these text messages were read out loud. In person.

Now, remember Trooper Michael Proctor and all of these buddies are also all local natives to the area. They're all familiar with some of the names in this case in general. So it's obvious that the prosecution brought this up to get ahead of it coming out straight from the defense when they brought it up, which isn't entirely uncommon for the prosecution to do. It's kind of a good strategy. However, in this case, there is absolutely just no way of getting around any of the things that were said in these text messages. And I'm going to read them verbatim for you guys.

So in text messages, Trooper Proctor says, quote, from all accounts, John O'Keefe didn't do anything wrong. She's a whack job cunt. Referring to Karen Reed. Yep, so these came from me. From all accounts, he didn't do anything wrong. She's a whack job cunt. Objection.

So don't spell it. You have to. So these are your words, Trooper Proctor? Yes, Your Honor. Go ahead and say them. Cunt. Then one friend asks, is she hot? And Trooper Proctor responds, again, lead investigator of this case, guys. He says, she's a babe. Weird Fall River accent, though. No ass. Yes, she's a babe. Weird Fall River accent, though. Though. No ass.

He later followed it up with, she's got a leaky knotted balloon. Leaks poo. And who is depicted in that photograph that was shared within the group text? It's Miss Reed being escorted out of the state police Milton barracks. Number ending in 4146. Question, is that chick a smoke? Again, 4146 question mark. I respond, EH. I respond again, not bad as chief would say.

I also respond with she's got a leaky balloon knot, leaks poo. And what, if anything, is that in reference to? Again, to misread some medical conditions there.

When asked about this, he said that he was referring to some of her medical issues because, as a side note, Karen Reed was diagnosed with Crohn's disease back when she was 25. But, like, what a sick asshole, right? Who talks like that? She has a medical condition. He's saying she's got a leaky knotted balloon, period. Leaks poo. Like, how cruel and callous are you? And he also texted, quote, She said that the Alberts beat the shit out of him. She's gross. Fuck her. Bitch.

During the direct exam, he said that his text messages were just inappropriate jokes, that they were juvenile, that all of these things that he said were very, very regrettable. The rest of the...

However, he said that despite these messages, the investigation and the evidence was so, so strong and that these messages had no impact in any way on the investigation. However, not so fast. Because remember, some of these text messages were sent in the evening on January 29th, the day that John was found dead.

So the defense is saying that this is right here, clear proof that he essentially just decided that it was Karen's fault from the very, very beginning. During cross-examination, Karen's attorney, Alan Jackson, then asked Trooper Proctor about a text message where one of his friends said, quote,

And Trooper Proctor responds, "No," then quickly follows it up with another text that says, "He's a Boston police officer." So he was pressed about this, and Alan Jackson said, like, "Hey, are you saying that when you said 'no' he wasn't going to get shit, that it had nothing to do with him being a Boston police officer?" And Trooper Proctor still said, "No, no, no, that's not what I meant." Yet the timestamps show that the second text message was sent 11 seconds after the first one.

He was also asked about the text messages that he sent about Karen's other attorney named David Yanady. I think that's how you pronounce it. And Trooper Proctor texted, quote, I hate that man. I truly hate that man. I'm going through his retarded client's phone right now. I mean, disgusting, right? Trooper DiCicco had sent you a photograph of my colleague, Mr. Yanady, correct? Yes, correct. And then your response was what? Disgusting.

I hate that man. I truly hate that man. Actually, your response was, I'm going through his retarded client's phone right now, correct? Yes, after the picture started, yes. Who's the retarded client? I was referring to Ms. Freed, again, on professional language. I'm asking who you're referring to. Ms. Freed. I know you've got an explanation.

Who was it you were referring to as retarded? Miss Reed. Karen Reed, the woman sitting to my left. Yes, sir. The subject of your investigation as a professional, correct? Yes, sir. As an unbiased, objective investigator, the person that you were investigating, you referred to, to your bosses as retarded. Now, to combat this, Trooper Proctor said that he just used poor language. Again, poor language on my part. Poor language is one way to put it. Completely offensive is another way to put it, right?

Your boss, Yuri Bukinic, actually responded to the photo of Mr. Yannetti, didn't he? Objection. I'll allow it. He did, sir. After you received the photo, that's when you said, I'm quote, funny, I'm going through his retarded client's phone. Is that right? Objection. I'll allow this, but not too many more. Sure. Is that correct? It's on the top of page 685. That's correct. And Yuri Bukinic...

liked that comment funny i'm going through this retarded client's phone i get it sometimes if you're texting with people you're more casual you're being sarcastic you're a professional on a case you're not just texting with your buddy as a normal layperson you are the lead investigator on this case another boston police officer is dead was killed like there is just no professionalism in my opinion whatsoever

Then later, Proctor ended up reading a text message out loud that he sent his bosses about going through the phone. And what he says about this, about him going through her phone, is, no nudes so far. That's a direct quote. So her defense attorney asked Proctor, hey, were you searching this phone for nude photos? And Trooper Proctor said he was not, that it was, again, just a poor choice of words. No nudes so far.

No nudes so far, correct? Correct. And you said that to your bosses. Yes, sir. You were looking for naked photographs of Ms. Reed on a Wednesday night as you sat in your office at 9.44 p.m., correct? No, not correct. Let me ask you a question. Have you ever looked for naked photos of a male suspect? No.

That you were investigating? I don't look for naked photos on anyone's phones. But you said you were looking for nudes of Ms. Reed, correct? Like I said, Mr. Jackson, it was an inappropriate joke. Sir, this is a citizen. She's a woman. Do you believe that your text messages were reflective of an objective investigator? Rejection. I'll allow that. Do you believe that, Tripper Proctor? I believe poor jokes have, in unprofessional language, have no bearing on the integrity and the facts and physical evidence of this case.

It's not that they don't have any bearing on the facts and integrity. It's that they have no place in a professional investigation because it shows bias, right? Objection. So I have to sustain that as asked. Go ahead and ask it differently, Mr. Jackson. You weren't so much as objectively investigating Karen Reed as objectifying her, correct? Objection.

I'll allow that. Is that right? Rephrase the question, please. You weren't so much as objectively investigating her as objectifying her in those moments, correct? Again, Mr. Jackson, it was a poor choice of words and a joke that I should not have texted out, but from the start of the investigation, we didn't know what we had. And your, Trooper Proctor, your point in saying no nudes so far

to your colleagues in Massachusetts State Police was to suggest that you were looking for nudes and you'd update them when you found them. Correct? Incorrect.

Let me ask you a question. Did you find any news of Karen Reid? I didn't go through the photos, sir. Did you find any news of Karen Reid? I didn't go through the photos, sir. She wasn't successful in your quest. I came across text messages from Ms. Reid to another attorney on January 29th, so I had to stop looking through her phone. So you got...

sidetracked before you could get to the naked pictures of mystery sustained did either trooper fanning or trooper dukenick dress you down in a responsive text message in that text thread for doing something so abhorrent as looking for nudes or referring to nudes of a female suspect or subject of your investigation did that ever happen not that i can recall

In another text message, after Karen was indicted by a grand jury, Trooper Proctor messaged his wife saying that he was, quote, waiting to lock the whack job up.

Again, just no professionalism, and it's like he had it out for Karen, in my opinion, from the very get-go. It's like he saw, after 17 hours of John's body being discovered, he found his person. He was going to nail her ass to the wall, and he was talking poorly about her. He was doing everything he could to imply her guilt, so much so that he...

He even was talking with his buddy on the side of another officer. Actually, who was it? Maybe it wasn't another officer. But anyways, he was texting on the side about how the medical examiner ruled John's death as undetermined and how he's like, yeah, it's, you know, frustrated as trying to say like we wanted the medical examiner to say that it was clearly homicide. It was just crazy.

Very, very upsetting. And it's like, yes, okay, text messages are not the end-all be-all of a case, right? Does he have zero tact? Sure. Is he a dick? Okay. Does that mean that she's innocent because of it? No. But you couple this with all of the other strange coincidences, conspiracies that have come up throughout the trial, such as them rehoming devices that they had, erasing footage,

saying Trooper Proctor said that there was no snow plow that morning that came through and past the house, yet there was in fact.

He zeroed in on her and nobody else. There were those butt dials at 2 a.m. the night John died, or early morning hours, I should say, that he died. There was the Google search at 2 a.m., how long does it take to die in the cold. There's injuries on John that's not consistent with his height and being reversed into by a car. You have Jen McCabe, who had deleted phone calls and deleted text messages before she gave her phone to Trooper Proctor.

And then, like, on top of that, you have the other people in the home who are officers and they're deleting their phone history. They're getting rid of their phone entirely. They're searching how long to die in the cold at 2 a.m. Like, none of it makes any sense. Not to mention the colluding that is suspected to have happened between all of the, you know, butt dials as they're calling it, phone calls in the early morning hours, the cover-ups. It just smells so gross and fishy. So we're going to see where it goes from here. I would be...

literally shocked if karen reed is found guilty not because i think that she did or didn't do it one way or another but the way that this trial is going i would be absolutely floored if the jury found her guilty and if this wasn't either a mistrial or found not guilty especially given the fact that all of these disgusting text messages that were read the jury i think has what 10 women on it who were just like had the most disgusting expressions on their faces this was being read out loud

It's just, it is wild. And that's why I say this is a case, guys, that you definitely want to catch up on if you haven't yet. So it'll be linked. Going into another case, we do have a little bit of a mini update in the Madeline Soto case. So it's been reported, as we know, that Madeline Soto was strangled to death.

strangled to death by her mom's boyfriend who also had been sexually assaulting her for I believe it was what two years at minimum and he had all this disgusting content on his phone of these sexual assaults I mean truly just a fucking disgusting human being there was recently a very large almost 900 page document that dumped all of this new information out relating to her case now I haven't been able to go through all 900 pages yet guys because I am not a like fax machine or a scanner but I am going through what I can but I

I do want to know from you. Well, let me start here. I went through some of the pages. It is very disturbing. The details are very disturbing. There is some red flags from her mom. I'm not ready to 100% say with certainty that I think she was involved in any of this somehow. More so, I would lean towards the cover-up rather than, you know, being complicit with the ongoing abuse. But again,

I'm not really ready to make my own determination on any of that yet, but there is a lot of stuff that I have read in this document that is absolutely foul and disgusting and does make me wonder what the truth really is. So what I'm going to do is I'm actually going to put a poll over on Spotify. So if this is a case that you guys are interested in me doing another full podcast episode on covering her case again, start to finish all the new information, everything we know so that it's like in one general place, like

a deep, deep, deep dive into this case, let me know. And if it is, then we definitely will deliver the content you want and that is what we will do. Otherwise, I will just continue to give mini updates as they happen. So let me know what you want me to do and we will go accordingly. Other than that, I also announced on my community page over on YouTube today

that crime con 2025 tickets are now on sale they are already selling out and going fast but it is going to be in denver we are officially going i know it's a year away guys but you got to plan in advance for these things so if you want to get your tickets now you can use my code annie elise and get 10 off again a lot of them i think have already sold out different tiers so i would definitely act quickly i will put the link to buy them in the show notes and then use code annie elise and you'll get 10 off but

I'm really excited for that because I had so much fun in Nashville with you guys and I can't wait to run it back. Other than that, thank you guys again for tuning into another episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise, Headline Highlights Edition. Please, if you have 30 extra seconds and you're listening on Apple, leave us a review. Let us know what you like, what you want to hear more of.

what you want deep dives of because like I said we really want to cater this podcast to what it is you want to hear whether it's old cases new cases current cases updates just let me know let me know in the review section because that's an easy way for me to just kind of get a snapshot of what you guys are liking what you maybe aren't liking and go from there all right guys thanks again and until the next one please be nice don't kill people stay safe watch your back do all the things and I will be back on the mic with you very soon all right thanks guys bye