139: Missing Kansas Moms Update, Dylan Rounds Found & Chad Daybell Blames EVERYTHING on Lori & Alex
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Hello, hello, hello. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise. I hope you guys are all having a good week so far. Boy, oh boy, do we have a lot to talk about today, guys.

Let me give you a reminder if you're brand new here, and I try to not do this in every episode because I don't want it to always be like redundant, but if you're brand new and you've just discovered the podcast, maybe it's your first time listening, maybe it's your second time listening, Thursday episodes are typically a rundown of everything going on in the true crime world this week.

We also talk about updates that are happening in cases that we have previously covered and talked about in more of like a deep dive kind of way. And then our Monday episodes are a full deep dive on a singular case. So we have our Monday deep dives on one case. We come back Thursday. What's going on in the true crime world? What are some of the new headlines? What are some of the breaking cases and case updates?

And then I also put out a Friday episode if you feel like you need a little bit more of a true crime fix. It's ad free. It's a bonus. You can get access to that either through Apple Podcasts or through Patreon, which I will put Patreon in the show notes below. But if you use Apple Podcasts, you can just do it through the app.

But anyways, we have got a lot to talk about in today's episode because not only are there a lot of new cases to talk about, but we've got to talk about Chad Daybell. So most of you are probably familiar with who Chad Daybell is, but as a very, very high-level recap, let me tell you. He's the one who was married to Lori Vallow. They're the cult couple, the doomsday couple. They killed, allegedly, Lori's two children. Well, she's been found guilty. But also, like, a slew of other people. Chad's wife, Tammy.

possibly even Lori's brother, Alex Cox. I mean, it's all this doomsday. They thought the end of the world was happening. They're awful, awful people. Lots of cult type things, things like that. So Lori's already been found guilty. Chad, he is now on trial. The jury has finally been seated for the trial. And it's very, very interesting because...

his attorney John Pryor was trying to get off of the trial trying to say you know hey I'm not qualified enough for a death penalty case I want to recuse myself to which the judge a few months back said no you're trying this like we're not doing this we're not delaying any further so finally it was jury selection the jury has now been seated and opening statements started on Wednesday

Now we sent a team member to cover Lori Vallow's trial. They were in the courtroom. They were doing live tweets, live updates, live video recaps on TikTok. And we were doing a recap episode week to week with everything going on in that trial because at that one cameras weren't allowed inside of it. There was little information. People were kind of itching for all the new details that weren't public information. And so we ended up doing that.

I am happy to say we are doing the same thing with Chad Daybell. We have a team member who is on the ground right now. She was there in the courtroom for opening statements, and she is giving us the full breakdown of everything going on. So I'm going to give you the update, a mini update in today's episode, but then also we are going to be putting out bonus episodes on the podcast as

Every single week with full trial recaps. So that you can keep up if you're not able to watch the hours and hours of trial happen. You know because I think it's what? It's slated to be 8 to 10 weeks of trial. So we're going to give you guys recaps every single week of what's going down. What the new breaking information is that has not been you know aired to the public at this point. And yeah.

We'll talk about all of it. So that being said, if you're not subscribed to the podcast yet, take a quick second right now while you're listening. Make sure you're following the podcast so that you don't miss those episodes. But we will be uploading them in week, like right at the end of the trial for the week.

the whole recap will go up so we'll be definitely very timely it's not going to be like Monday morning quarterbacking with you it's going to be a lot of work guys but here we are here we are here and committed to give you the information you want and if you aren't familiar with the Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell case please please let me know over in the Spotify Q&A section maybe I'll do a poll but let me know over there either way because I can definitely link and re-upload a full deep dive on their case to get you up to

It is a very, very fascinating one and truly horrific. But anyways, let's talk about this

current cases right now, then we'll get into Chad and opening statements a little bit, and let's just kind of run through everything we've got to talk about today. So I want to start with a Florida-crazed genius of sorts. So a 22-year-old pre-med student who was once described as a quote, genius and also remarkably brilliant, confessed to fatally stabbing his mother, who is an elementary school teacher, and he stabbed her over 70 times.

On Saturday, April 6th, Emmanuel Manny Espinoza drove from the University of Florida to his mom's house in Frostproof. He went there to attend an event for his grandfather. His mother, Elvia Espinoza, invited him to stay with her while he was in town, like a normal, nice mother would, right? So Manny arrived at approximately 2 p.m., knocked to come inside, and then just began stabbing his mother the second that she opened the door.

Now, in a very disturbing twist, guys, this was all caught on Ring doorbell footage. Apparently, Manny was standing at the doorway with a small knife hidden behind his back. He was also wearing headphones, and he was listening to the song No Church in the Wild by Jay-Z and Kanye West.

In court documents, it says that because Manny was studying to become a doctor, he allegedly knew where to stab her for maximum effect because of his biology classes. It also says that he saw his mom was still alive, so that's why he continued stabbing her. Again, over 70 times. Like, if that is not the definition of overkill, I don't know what is.

Then he accidentally cut himself while he was stabbing his mom to death, which really happens in a lot of stabbings. Usually that's how people can get caught too because the weapon, the knife, it's so slick from the amount of blood that

that it's hard for them to hold it and keep traction. And imagine, stabbing somebody 70 to 70 times, that's the up and down motion 140 times. So that, with all of that blood, it's likely that it would slip. It would either fall out of your hands, it would nick you, and that's pretty common in a lot of these stabbings. So that's what happened with Manny. He accidentally cut himself. Then he went and he washed his hands and he washed the knife in the house sink afterward. But get this.

he told police officers that he, wanted to ask his mom for Neil Sporn, but then realized she was dead. Wanted to ask her for Neil Sporn, like the ointment that goes on a cut before you put a bandage on it. Like, what? So,

So he says, then he called 911 and he confessed to his mom's murder. I mean, it's insane. That's what made him have this realization. I need a Neil Sporn for my cut. Oh no, my mom, who I wanted to ask the Neil Sporn for, she's dead. Oh wait, I did it. Let me call 911. Like, what on earth is going on here? So in a press conference by Grady Judd and Polk County, Manny said that his relationship with his mom was an 8 out of 10. That's a direct quote, guys. He rated it an 8 out of 10.

But he also said that he wanted to kill her for years. So Grady Judd also said that Manny doesn't have a history of drug or alcohol abuse. He doesn't have a history of mental problems or even arrests, which is why this is like one of the most bizarre murders that they have dealt with in a really long time. He said that he had just been angry or not liked his mother for years and years.

When we said, do you love her? He said, oh yeah, I love her. Do y'all get along? Yeah, eight out of ten we get along. But I've wanted to kill her for years and I made up my mind as I drove from Gainesville, today is the day. Nothing is making sense and if he doesn't have a history of

substance abuse, mental illness, anything like that, what prompts somebody to go to their mother's house, hold a knife behind their back while listening to music? She opens the door and you just attack her 70 times, stab her 70 times.

Then in your cleanup, because you got injured in the savage attack, you're like, oh, mommy, I need a bandaid. I need Neosporin. Oh, wait, you're not here. You're dead. I killed you. Like, how is there not something mentally at play here? It just makes no sense to me.

especially if there's like no real motive according to his own statement they had a relationship that was an 8 out of 10 so I don't know I'm sure we're gonna find more answers soon but I wanted to talk about this case because a lot of you guys have been DMing me about it and it's just something that is so so bizarre and difficult to wrap your head around guys speaking of sick and difficult to wrap your head around let's talk about this sick freak from Idaho um

On March 20th, Benton County Sheriff's Office deputies went to Austin Holbrook's home in Kennewick. This was after learning that a missing or runaway juvenile from Nampa, Idaho was likely there with him. Now Austin is 20 years old, and when they went inside, they found this missing runaway juvenile. She was 12 years old. So this 12-year-old girl was with this 20-year-old guy 270 miles away from her house. I mean...

Couldn't have been good, right? So apparently Austin told deputies that he met this girl on a dating app and that they started messaging. Then the victim allegedly snuck out of her house and left with Austin around March 14th or March 15th.

The victim told police that she and Austin had sex several times and that he had also been talking to some of her other friends, who I'm assuming are probably also minors. However, Austin said that the victim told him that she was 18, which, okay, so he was messaging a group of, what, 12-year-olds that convinced him they were all 18 years old? No. No.

Honestly, it sounds like bullshit to me, but innocent until proven guilty, I suppose. But also by looking, I know a lot of young girls look older, but like, you know, when you're talking to a 12 year old, it's my opinion, whether you're talking to them, and then it's certainly when you see them. So I'm not buying his story. I think he's a predator. But again, innocent until proven guilty, I suppose. But even grosser, in a grosser detail, if you can believe this.

This guy, Austin, didn't have his own house. He was still living with his mommy and daddy, which is fine. He's only 20 years old. But that's where they found this 12-year-old victim, hiding in Austin's room. Officers said that she looked malnourished. She looked dehydrated. So all of those things, to me, you have this 12-year-old that you're hiding out, like locking in your bedroom, who's malnourished and dehydrated, who you're just having round-the-clock sex with.

To me, that reeks of a predator and predatory behavior. It does not smell like a girl who tricked you into believing that she's 18 and that you're the victim. But I've been wrong before, guys. I'd be shocked if I'm wrong about this, but if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck. I hate that expression. I don't even know why I just said that, guys. But you know what I mean. Where there's smoke, there's fire. I don't know why I'm using all the analogies, but you get what I mean. It does not look good.

So he was booked into the Benton County Jail on two counts of rape of a child and one count of unlawful imprisonment. His bond was set at $500,000, and hopefully he doesn't get out because seriously, what the heck? He's obviously a predator. He was messaging with her friends as well, which to me signals that he's probably going to be a repeat offender. He's just going to get smarter now for next time. So I'm hopeful that they throw the mother effing book at this guy.

While we're on the topics of monsters, I guess we'll just kind of parlay us into our next case with this monster mom in Oklahoma. So back in November of 2018, Amy Hall, a 43-year-old mother, she got up in the early morning hours and walked into her 18-year-old son's room. And when she did that, she shot him in the head while he was sleeping. Then she went into her 16- and 14-year-old daughter's rooms and also shot them in the head while they were sleeping.

The 18-year-old and the 16-year-old died, but miraculously, the 14-year-old daughter survived all of this. Now, when Amy was interviewed, she told police that the 14-year-old daughter escaped to the bathroom and started to cry. And then the daughter told her mother Amy that everything was okay. She exited the bathroom, and then she got the gun away from her mom.

Now, I can't even imagine how scary that must have been for her, but then, to show so much bravery in that moment, I think that it probably saved her life. And it could have even saved her siblings if the injuries hadn't been so bad. It's unclear who called 911, but apparently after 911 was called, the mother Amy got in her car and she tried to flee. So then, it turned into this like massive high-speed police chase to catch her. A

Eventually, she pulled over and she admitted that she planned to kill herself after she had killed her children. But that doesn't really make sense because it sounds like she tried to get the hell out of there as fast as she could before the police were there, not like she was going to kill herself afterward. That sounds more to me like a coward excuse that she came up with. Amy also told the officers that there was some part of her that killed her kids because she wanted to protect them from their dad, who she says was abusive.

At the time, Amy and the dad were in a two-year custody battle, and what's crazy is that in 2016, the dad actually claimed that Amy had psychologically abused the children and that she was mentally unfit. So clearly, there was something to these claims, right? But there's not much more known about the situation other than that.

We do know that a lot of the times in these high-heated, high-stakes custody battles, one parent will make that decision to family annihilate, to kill the entire family and themselves in an effort to, quote, save the children from the other parent.

But I don't know if that's necessarily what this situation was. Not only because Amy tried to flee, but also because two years prior, the father had claimed that she was mentally unfit. So maybe this was just an outburst of her mental health. I don't know. But regardless, Amy was recently sentenced to life in prison for two counts of murder, and she was also sentenced to 240 months for assault with intent to commit murder.

And honestly, like, good riddance, lady. I hope you rot. You are disgusting. I don't know what was going through her mind, what the true reasoning is here. I'm sure we'll learn a lot, especially during the mental health evaluation. But...

To me, it seems like she tried to get away. She tried to kill her kids. Then she tried to flee. She didn't want to face the music. And then she's using the custody thing. Maybe there's some truth to that. I don't know. I'm not a professional. But like either way, I'm glad she's locked up. I'm so thankful that the 14-year-old survived. I just don't know how at 14 years old you reconcile all of that. Now you're living without your siblings. You're living without your mother. She's locked up. You're trying to deal with the fact and grapple with the fact that your mother tried to kill you and that she did kill your siblings.

I just, my heart goes out to that poor girl. Okay, so now I also want to give you guys an update in a case that I talked about with you recently, and it is the missing Kansas moms. So in last week's Thursday episode, we talked about the missing moms in Kansas. Now, just as a recap, police are looking for two missing Kansas women, 27-year-old Veronica Butler and 39-year-old Jillian Kelly.

Veronica and Jillian were traveling from Kansas to Oklahoma to pick up Veronica's children and then take them to a birthday party. But here's the thing. They never made it there. Instead, the car that they were in was found in an extremely isolated area of the Oklahoma Panhandle near the southern Kansas border.

Now, since then, more information has come out about Veronica and the situation with her children. It's been reported that Veronica was going through a pretty nasty custody battle with the children's biological dad, and she actually was only allowed to see the kids under the supervision of another parent. And in this case, that person was Jillian.

So a lot of people's minds probably went exactly where yours just did when I said that. Obviously, he had something to do with it. Bad custody arrangement, a battle, a lot of turmoil. But not so fast. Let's hold back really quick. It's

It's been reported that the biological dad is in a court-ordered rehab facility that's five hours away, and he's not having any family contact there, and he's going to be there for 30 days. He entered the facility March 22nd, and he still is there. So it's even more puzzling.

And there's been a lot of talk on Reddit about the condition of the car when it was found. If there was blood in the car, I mean, things like that. But I really haven't seen any confirmation on any of that from law enforcement. And honestly, I'm not even sure that they would confirm that information anyway, since they've been so tight-lipped about the information in this case so far, ever since it first broke. Now recently, drone footage of where the car was found came out. And guys, I am talking, this is a very desolate area.

According to people who live in the area, it's quote, in a very rural area of Oklahoma. You can drive for an hour and never see another person in some parts of this panhandle. And guys, you can look it up for yourself on Google Maps on the Street View because there is literally nothing out there. You're in a very rural area. It's very dark. It's very desolate. And suddenly you found yourself followed. Did I get any of that wrong? And take me from there.

So we started off our day in Oklahoma City where we went to the OSBI and we've been making our way slowly to the area where the women's SUV was found. And we know that they were supposed to meet up at this abandoned gas station, the Four Corners, which we went to. And we checked that out and then we took this right on Highway 95 to see if we could just quickly find the spot where the women's SUV was located, Road L and Highway 95.

We turned off and we looked around and we really, you know, we've been reporting on it and we knew as our team put a safety plan in place together for ourselves saying let's all watch each other's backs. Let's share our location with other people. We got to this location and I filmed it. You can see it right there. Road L is actually off of 95 a bit more than we expected it to be. Now exactly where the car was is between that area and where this cross was found. We found this white cross

with yellow ribbon. The women's names are on that cross. Who placed it there, we don't know. But our plan was to show this to you, to film it, and get out of there. And when we went to turn around to go back down this long dirt path road L, this big black truck with tinted windows pulled up and

seemingly looked like it was going to start to block us. And our plan all along was if we see somebody coming down the road, let's all get in the car and get out of here, which is exactly what we did driving back towards the gas station and getting back over here to a well-lit area so we could report to you tonight. But the

The point was to show you where the SUV was found, what, you know, there has been no information about what has happened to these women. We have been pressing the OSBI for days now, for over a week. We don't have any answers. We know that nobody's talking. And Ashley, you and I have been doing these missing person cases for a really long time. And whenever I arrive to a scene like this,

I usually see a grid search. I see canine units. We see a command post. We see the types of things that we're used to, but there is nothing. There is no sign of a search going on right now where we are in Oklahoma. Now, were we near somebody's private property? We might have been.

You know, I've been I'm from California. And so a lot of these roads lead to, you know, vineyards. But we have described and we took some drone video today as well. But yeah, you can see that cross. It has their names on it. Who placed it there? It looks like this is the spot where the SUV was found. The drone footage that we took earlier, we specifically did to show everybody just how rural this area is. You've been hearing us talk about it. You've been hearing Brooke Schaefer mention it as well. But we wanted to get up

and out and show you that as far as the eye can see, you know, there's a lot of terrain to get to. It's a lot of farmland. There are some pig farms that are nearby, which are easy to spot and smell as you're driving down the road. But as far as the location, the gas station that's right behind me does have a flyer from the OSBI with the women's faces on it.

Veronica and Jillian. We walked in and we talked to the gas station attendant, a young lady, and we asked her how she was working there alone. We said, how are you feeling? What are you doing? And she said, well, I'm nervous. We just don't know what's going on. I'm checking in with my family and they're calling to ask me if I'm OK because I'm sitting here at this cash register alone and you can't blame her.

There was a picture that your drone video caught just a bit ago and it looked like maybe that was one of the industrial pig farms that you were talking about. Is that one of those facilities? Because I have to be honest with you, in the absence of any information from authorities, there's all sorts of crazy rumors about pig farms and how they might be involved in all of this. I mean, the rumor mill is on overdrive.

It is. And that is, that is right down the road. In fact, that industrial pig farm is between the location where the SUV was found and the gas station where the women were supposed to have that supervised meetup to have Veronica's children handed off. And I also want to mention something that's really important here. Ten days before Veronica Butler and her friend went missing, there was a court filing. I printed it out. I read it on the plane right here. It is

filed on March 20th, 10 days before. This was a bitter custody battle. Was it involved in this? We don't know. And I also want to mention that I've been talking to a private investigator not involved in this case, but knows the area well. And she said that there's a lot of human trafficking that goes on here. There's a lot of because it is so rural, there are other things that happen. So while people are focusing on family matters and the bitter custody battle that was going on, there are other items to consider.

consider. Of course, the trucking industry that we've got truckers up and down. You know, we just don't know. The OSBI is not telling us what's going on. We thought we might get an update from them today. They told me over the weekend if there's not an update over the weekend, we'll talk to you on Monday. Well, here it is.

And we don't have an update from them, not an official one, other than them telling us that they're really busy. So once there's more information, I will definitely keep you guys updated. But this case is so baffling for so many reasons. You have not one, but two people completely gone. The car is abandoned in the most desolate area possible. The police have no idea where the women are, or I don't know, maybe they do and we just don't know. But they haven't been found, and we're now at almost two miles.

weeks since the disappearance, and police have indicated that this was suspicious from the get-go. So I don't know, you guys. I'm hoping and praying for a miracle on this one, but as more time passes, unfortunately, the chances of a rescue don't always look great.

Now, speaking of a recovery and not a rescue, we got an update in the Dylan Rounds case. On Tuesday morning, the body of 19-year-old Dylan Rounds was officially found. This was according to his family and law enforcement. Now,

Now as a recap, Dylan went missing just under two years ago in Utah. He was staying on a farm and he was working on the land before he suddenly disappeared. This case was shady from the get-go. There were so many red flags. I will link the full deep dive in the show notes to the full breakdown I did of this case, but it has been heartbreaking and we've been with it every single step of the way and

And unfortunately, I feel like for those of you who have followed it as well, we kind of knew that this is where we were going to land. We hoped it wasn't, but I think we knew. So for nine months, nobody knew what happened. That was until police charged a 60-year-old man, 60, 6-0, and Dylan was just 19. They charged this man, James Brenner, with aggravated murder and abuse or desecration of a body.

Now, James happened to be someone who also worked on the property and was squatting on another property that was nearby when Dylan went missing. By the time he was charged with the murder, he was already in jail on unrelated gun charges. So James was charged with Dylan's murder after multiple different types of evidence were collected. See, first, when Dylan initially went missing, officers had found Dylan's boots and one of the boots had a bloodstain on it. When they sent it to the lab, it had both Dylan and James' DNA on it.

Then, another huge key piece of evidence was Dylan's phone, because when police searched Dylan's phone records, they saw that it last pinged at the property that James had been squatting on, near that pond. Well, they ended up finding his phone in the pond. It had been dumped there. So once they got the phone and pulled the info from it, they found a time-lapse video which showed James cleaning a gun with bloodstains on his shirt and arms, almost as though he accidentally took this time-lapse video with Dylan's phone before he dumped it in the pond.

And then when they got a hold of the shirt, it was nobody's surprise that it showed DNA matches for both James and Dylan. Now obviously with that kind of evidence, things were definitely not looking too good for James. And according to Dylan's mom, James took a plea deal and part of that plea deal meant that he had to show them where Dylan's remains were, which is what he did this week.

So I'm just happy that now there's no more living in like that unknown space that Dylan's family was living in for so long, wondering where he is, wondering what happened, having all of these questions and no answers. At least now they have the answers and they can put him to rest and begin to grieve and have some sort of closure. It's just not the ending that anybody wanted. Now let's move into Chad Daybell's trial and opening statements that started on Wednesday this week.

All right, Larry, what was it like walking in the courthouse today? It was deja vu all over again. This time, so much less stress. Why is that? I think we fought the battle with Laurie because we loved Laurie. We trusted Laurie. She lost that trust.

I've seen the worst. I've heard the worst. And I just, I feel like there's evidence that we have not heard. And there's probably some evidence that we have not seen. But I think that Kay and I, our family, are prepared for this. And more so than the first time because we were newbies the first time. I think a lot of people were newbies to this.

And I just, I feel like that we're better, we're in a better place mentally, physically, emotionally. What do you, what was it like seeing Chad right there 10 feet in front of you? You know, seeing Chad in front of me was a little disappointing in the fact that I just, I look at Chad and I don't look at Chad. I look at the photographs.

that I saw of JJ, the remains of Tylee and Tammy. Why? It never made sense. I don't think it ever will make sense. So in looking at Chad, I just don't have any, I don't feel anything. I really don't. So a lot less stress this time around.

And any prediction on how long this trial will take? What are you thinking? I will never have a prediction about that. If we walked in Monday morning and they said they have reached a verdict, I mean, a plea, that's fine. I've come to grips with the death penalty. I was adamant about it. When this happened, I was angry.

I was angry beyond, I just couldn't even help myself. Now, there's worse things than dying in life. So what would you say to the Daybell family as far as Tammy's siblings and parents? This trial is for them. I mean, this is about Tammy and the man they knew. They didn't really know Lori. Any advice you'd share for them? What I want to share with them is I have never stopped praying for his family.

I know what I've gone through, and I honestly can't imagine what his children are going through. I feel for him, and I feel for his family. And the brothers in that family, I love. I consider them friends. But, you know, we're all going through this together, and I think emotionally we're bound and bonded together.

So

So the opening statements for the prosecution were pretty similar to the opening statements in Lori's case. Rob Wood for the prosecution started the statements by saying, "...two dead children in the defendant's yard. One month later, the defendant's wife was found dead in their marital bed. One month after that, the defendant was smiling and getting married in Hawaii with the children's mother."

Then they outlined the case and they went over the timeline for the jurors. And no real surprise here because I gotta say guys, I gotta give myself props when props are due. I kind of called it, but actually I definitely called it, but the defense's opening statements went a lot differently.

It took John Pryor, Chad's loser attorney, less than a few minutes to completely throw Lori under the bus. And he painted her as this overly sexual, manipulative woman that her brother Alex Cox did all of her bidding, would do everything to protect her, which isn't true, I believe. But he basically started his opening statements by saying, this was all Lori and Alex.

Chad had nothing to do with it. He was just love struck. He fell for her spell. He was under her spell. All of these things. And I called that from the beginning because now that Lori's been found guilty and she has a sentence of life in prison without parole.

He's going to throw her under the bus. That's what I said. I was like, that's his only way out. And sure enough, that is what his defense attorney, John Pryor, is teeing up to do. Now, as I mentioned, we have boots on the ground in that courtroom in Idaho. So we are going to be giving you guys a full bonus episode every single Friday for free, full of the trial recap. What went down in the courtroom that week, what went down in the trial that week,

what Chad's loser face looked like in person, special people we talked to along the way, whether it's Brian Enten again from News Nation, maybe the Woodcocks, who knows what happens and as all of this unfolds. But every single Friday, we will be giving you guys a full breakdown of what goes down in trial because I know it can be very difficult to commit to hours and hours of watching the trial yourself.

but get ready guys make sure you're subscribed if you're not already to this podcast so that you will see that episode release every single week so other than that I did want to also let you guys know that if you're a Netflix watcher you probably already saw this but yesterday on Wednesday Netflix came out with a new documentary called What Jennifer Did and it's a documentary about Jennifer Pan now we covered this case last year on the podcast and I

Look, I love Netflix. I love them as much as the next guy. They don't get down in the nitty gritty. They don't look to all the dark corners. They don't do all that. I've heard that from you guys as well. We covered the Denise Huskins case before the documentary came out. We also covered the Carrie Farver case before their episode or their docuseries came out on that, which was like the crazy stalker killer one. And so many of you guys reached out and you're like, your coverage had so many details they left out. Like, what the fuck, right?

So we had covered this case almost a year ago now, I want to say, maybe a little less, and we went into the trenches because this girl is accused of hiring hitmen to kill her parents, and this story, guys, is so, so wild. So what I'm going to do for you, because I'm feeling extra, I don't know, happy this week. I don't think happy is the right word, but you get where I'm going. I am dropping a bonus episode where we reworked it a little bit. It still gives you all the great details, but

That way, whether you're planning on watching the Netflix documentary, whether you've already watched it, you can really get nitty gritty and deep with this case. So right after you close out of this episode, just look on my feed and boom, you're going to see a brand new one that we also uploaded today. And that is the full deep dive of Jennifer Pan. So let me know what you think about that case too. All right. Other than that, thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of Serialistly with me, Annie Elise.

I appreciate you guys being here. I appreciate you listening. I have a brand new case coming for you on the mic Monday. It is a deep dive of a case and it is a wild one. But as a reminder, if you feel like you still need a little bit of your true crime fix, we have our bonus ad-free episodes every single Friday and you can get access to those either through Apple Podcasts or through Patreon, which I will link in the show notes. All right, guys, thanks again. And until the next one, be nice, don't kill people. All right, bye, guys.