93: 17 Year Old Murders BFs Mom, Kentucky Mom Shoots Children, Chad Doerman, Todd Chrisley, & Teen Murder
27:08 Share

Today's episode of Serialistly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yes, I know you are. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you are not in some kind of moving vehicle, there is something else you can be doing right now, getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

It's easy and you could save money by doing it right from your phone. Drivers who save by switching to Progressive save nearly $750 on average. And auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Discounts for having multiple vehicles on your policy, being a homeowner, and more. So just like your favorite podcast, Progressive will be with you 24-7, 365 days a year, so you're protected no matter what.

Multitask right now. Quote your car insurance at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. National average 12-month savings of $744 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts not available in all states and situations. Hey, True Crime Besties. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialistly.

Hello, hello, hello. Welcome back to this week's episode of Headline Highlights over here on Seriously with me, Annie Elise. Now, if you're wondering, hey, Annie, why is this releasing on a Wednesday and not a Thursday? It's because it is, of course, Thanksgiving week. So let's just call this like Thanksgiving edition Headline Highlights.

No, but I figured so many of you guys on Thursday will be hopefully with loved ones, family, friends, surrounded by happiness and things to be grateful for. And it's my opinion that the last thing that we should be doing in one of these very few moments that we get to actually just sit in the quiet and enjoy is

is being bogged down with something so negative and heartbreaking and horrible as true crime. So I still wanted to get you guys all of the updates and what's going on in the true crime world this week because there is a lot, a lot, a lot to talk about. But I figured I would just release it a little bit early. That way tomorrow you guys can really just have some peace, have some quiet, be with your family, be with your loved ones, and be thankful for that time. And if you don't celebrate Thanksgiving, then just –

forget everything I just said for the last 30 seconds. No, but anyways, this is going to be a little bit of a supersized headline highlights, which I guess that does make it perfect that it is like Thanksgiving edition. It's like stuffed to the brim like a big fat turkey because there is a lot that we are talking about today, not only in some cases we've already discussed in the past that have some key updates, but also in some cases that we've already discussed in the past that have some key updates.

but some pretty horrific brand new cases that are coming out. So let me just kind of start with this first one and then we'll go in order. The first one is coming out of Ohio.

This teenage girl is accused of murdering her boyfriend's mother. So this case has all sorts of twists and different levels of foulness to it. Because like I said, the case comes out of Ohio. And it's been in the news recently because it's been about a teen who is accused of murdering her 33-year-old boyfriend's mom. This after telling him that he should kill her. Then the two of them fled to Mexico.

So let me break it down for you. Caitlin Coons, who is 17 years old, is charged with aggravated murder, tampering with evidence, and abuse of a corpse. And she's also going to be tried as an adult. This all in the murder of 53-year-old woman Nicole Jones, who happens to be her 33-year-old boyfriend's mother.

Now, if you're wondering what the fuck I'm talking about, why would a 17-year-old be dating a 33-year-old and what 33-year-old would be dating a 17-year-old, you're not alone. That's the correct ages. And let me kind of give you a little bit of a backstory here. So the two of them, Jonathan and Caitlin, originally started a romantic relationship back when Caitlin was just 15 years old.

He ended up being arrested and charged, and she was living in a foster home. Well, fast forward to April 11th, and Caitlin went missing from that foster home, and she moved in with Jonathan Jones.

who then continued his relationship with her after being previously charged. Now, according to detectives in this case, Caitlin had told Jonathan that they needed to do something about his mother because she was preventing them from being together, and she gave him five hours to do something about her, and she even had mentioned killing her. Now, what's interesting, though, is that according to some of the sources, Nicole's

Nicole, his mother, didn't even know that Caitlin was living in her son's bedroom. So why she thought that his mother was some barrier between their disgusting ass love story, who knows? Because apparently it was unbeknownst to her. She didn't even know that Caitlin was living there. So when Jonathan didn't kill his mom in that five hour time frame that Caitlin gave him, she allegedly took it upon herself to kill her instead.

Prosecutors say that she went outside, got a rock, and then went up to Nicole, Jonathan's mom, and when she was standing in front of the refrigerator in the kitchen, Caitlin snuck up from behind her and bludgeoned her a number of times and then strangled her.

And you might be wondering what good old Jonathan was doing while all of this was going down. Well, he was allegedly sitting in the living room while his young 17-year-old girlfriend was murdering his mom. Talk about an ultimate coward, disgusting, foul-ass pig. Then afterward, he allegedly helped his girlfriend, Caitlin, get rid of his mom's body by throwing her into a dumpster at an apartment complex, which was then later dumped into a landfill.

Then the two of them decided to flee to Mexico because what else do you do, I guess, in a situation like that? On the way there, allegedly, Caitlin called a caseworker of hers to say that she had done something terrible. So authorities went to Jonathan's mom house and what they found at the scene was exactly what Caitlin described to that caseworker.

Now, remember how I said that Jonathan had previously been charged and had a previous conviction because of his relationship with Caitlin? Well, because of this, he was wearing a GPS tracking device as all of this murder and fleeing to Mexico went down. Because in that case, he had pled guilty to endangering children and...

and attempting to commit pandering obscenity involving a minor, who was Caitlyn. This was back in March. Prosecutors in that case claimed that Jonathan had sex with Caitlyn at a Super 8 motel when she was 15 or 16, and that she was also in the custody of child services and was accused of taking pictures of them having sex, which he then later planned to sell.

So he now has this GPS ankle monitor, which, tell me what kind of moron is going to literally be a part of a murder plot, flee to another country while you're wearing an ankle monitor? You have to be the biggest moron of all time. And luckily for us and for investigators and for justice for his mother, he was the biggest moron of all time. Because on May 8th, the U.S. Marshal Service Missing Child Unit found Jonathan in Mexico because of that tracking device.

Today's episode of Serialistly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yes, I know you are. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you are not in some kind of moving vehicle, there is something else you can be doing right now, getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

It's easy, and you could save money by doing it right from your phone. Drivers who save by switching to Progressive save nearly $750 on average. And auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Discounts for having multiple vehicles on your policy, being a homeowner, and more. So just like your favorite podcast, Progressive will be with you 24-7, 365 days a year, so you're protected no matter what.

Multitask right now. Quote your car insurance at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. National average 12-month savings of $744 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts not available in all states and situations. An official message from Medicare.

A new law is helping me save more money on prescription drug costs. Maybe you can save too. With Medicare's Extra Help program, my premium is zero and my out-of-pocket costs are low. Who should apply? Single people making less than $23,000 a year or married couples who make less than $31,000 a year. Even if you don't think you qualify, it pays to find out. Go to ssa.gov slash extra help.

Paid for by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Life is full of adventures. Do you take this man to be your husband? I do. Welcome home. We did it. He has your eyes. He's perfect. Make the most of them all with PenFed checking and savings accounts. Learn more at PenFed.org. Federally insured by NCOA. To receive any advertised product, you must become a member of PenFed Credit Union. PenFed's got great rates for everyone.

Now, at this point in the case, his mother Nicole's body has not yet been found. The question will be, what is his mental capacity? How much is he influenced by her versus how much she is influenced by him? Age does not equate sophistication.

Age does not equate with life experience. I mean, what we have is a 17-year-old who I think, you know, she had a rough life up to this point. I mean, she was living in foster care. She was, you know, not surrounded, it sounds like, by the love and the care that a lot of parents do. And so she has certainly, by that history, a suggestion of some understanding of how the game and life works. And maybe this guy was sheltered off.

That's an argument that you have to raise when you're defendant and when your client is 17, 16, 15 years old and is engaged with someone who is twice her age. Almost. You have to raise that as an argument that it wasn't her who acted on her own conscience, but was influenced to a significant degree by this much older person who had the persuasive authority of influence over her.

So is Caitlin telling the truth? Did she really do this? Or is she covering for her pedophile, creepo boyfriend? Did he say, you have to cover for me. I've already been arrested once for you. This is you. This is you. You'll get a lighter sentence. You're a minor. The truth is, we don't know yet. But Jonathan has been charged in connection to his mother's murder.

Speaking of teenage murderers and murderers, Natalie Navarro, a 17-year-old girl who had an Amber Alert issued for her in September, has now been indicted by a Dallas County grand jury on a capital murder charged by terroristic threats this week. Police said Yorty Martinez, who is 21 years old, has also been indicted in the case, but authorities have not found him since he fled back in September.

Arturo Pena was a mesquite man reported missing by Dallas police on August 27th and then found dead with a gunshot wound by officers on August 29th. On September 1st, Dallas police issued an Amber Alert for Natalie, listing a 21-year-old man named Yorty Martinez as the suspect.

Later on, Natalie was found before the Amber Alert officially went out. According to police, Natalie and Yorty were identified as two persons of interest in Arturo's murder. It further alleges that the reason that Arturo never made it home that day when he was reported as missing is because he never did make it home because he was set up.

Yorty has not been found and police believe he fled to Mexico. 17 year old girl who was at the center of an Amber Alert last week remains in jail for capital murder. And tonight we've learned the motive may have been robbery. According to an arrest warrant, police found the victim, Arturo Pena, shot to death in his car at a Garland Park last week. Pena had been reported missing days before and according to witness interviews,

He might have been robbed for his jewelry. Police arrested the 17 year old in South Texas, but they're still looking for this guy. 21 year old Yordy Martinez. As for that Amber Alert, it's still not clear what prompted police to issue it, but we know there are no kidnapping charges connected to this case.

According to the indictment, Natalie unlawfully then and there intentionally caused the death of Arturo by shooting him. She was also allegedly in the course of committing and attempting to rob him when she allegedly shot him. Investigators believe Natalie and Arturo met online and then she allegedly intended to rob him with Yorty. Natalie told police she had spoken to Yorty once before online but had never met him in person the night of the actual murder. But the police don't think that she's telling the truth.

She also allegedly met up with Arturo two weeks before the shooting in what police believe was an attempt to set him up.

Natalie is currently in custody in Dallas County being held on a $1 million bond for the capital murder charge. She is also charged with possession of marijuana and carrying an unlicensed weapon. Now taking a pause for just a brief moment because we're going to get into a case after this one that goes right back to murder, but let's take a pause on murder for a minute. And the case we're going to go into next is all about reality TV fame politics.

Tax evasion, finances, conspiracy, fraud, all those things. If you haven't guessed, we are going to be talking about the Chrisley family. So Todd and Julie Chrisley from Chrisley's Know Best were charged and convicted for conspiracy to commit bank fraud, bank fraud, conspiracy to defraud the United States, and tax fraud back in June of 2022.

Julie was also charged with wire fraud and obstruction of justice. In September, Todd and Julie's prison sentences were reduced. Todd was sentenced 12 years and Julie was sentenced to seven years, which actually came as a huge shock to fans who followed the show.

So they reported to prison in January of this year. However, since then, both of their sentences have been reduced. Todd by a little over two years and Julie's by about two years as well. All because they were convicted of nonviolent offenses and have been model inmates. Direct quote. You can see my air quotes going while I say that.

Now, in December of 2022, the Chrisleys announced that they were going to appeal their sentences. But you know how that usually goes in most criminal cases. Almost all convictions are appealed, and we rarely hear anything about it, aside from the actual appeal itself, in most cases.

While Todd and Julie have been in prison, their daughter Savannah has been advocating their appeal. And she also spoke up about their prison conditions, saying that they are living in poor conditions and being mistreated. Specifically, that her dad has been targeted by some of the guards. Air conditioning is the least of it. Whenever you've got black mold, asbestos, lead-based paint. Todd Chrisley's whole new reality behind bars keeps getting darker. What we will not do is we will not break.

No AC, bad plumbing, and the possibility of mold. - It's a nightmare, it's awful. - Shocking details from his legal team's new lawyer, powerhouse defense attorney Jay Sergent. He tells ET both Todd and wife Julie are not asking for special treatment at their prisons. - If you're in a government facility, you should have air conditioning.

In fact, Jay says the administration at both of their facilities aren't handling things properly because of their celebrity status. What else? The Chrisley Knows Best patriarch claims he was photographed while sleeping. And Todd suspects he isn't receiving his mail. That to me is...

an issue. That's Todd's adult children, Savannah and Chase, sounding alarm bells on her Unlocked podcast on Tuesday. As for their mom, Julie... She just had snakes literally right there where her bed is. And then the way they think to apprehend a snake is to mace it. Any family who faces a loved one going to prison, it's a very difficult challenge, but they're strong. They're faithful. They're both in states where

It gets 100 plus degrees and there's no air conditioning. Yep, both prisons are a far cry from the couple's Nashville mansion. Todd's federal facility is in Florida and Julie's is in Kentucky. They're 655 miles apart. We made a commitment that we were not going to give up.

They surrendered to authorities back in January, starting their combined 19-year sentence after the couple's convictions last year for bank fraud and tax evasion. I've never seen two people, my parents, be so steadfast in their faith. In the end, the truth will prevail. It may get harder before it gets easier, but we have faith.

In light of these allegations, Jay is requesting home confinement for the couple and a reduction on their sentences. Everyone always wants an update on how mom and dad are doing and they're doing fine. They're doing as good as they can. Exactly. They're doing fine with what they're given. They were not built to break and this damn sure is not going to break them. They have always said that they're innocent, that they have not done these things and they will stick to that.

Now, the family's number one mission, clear Todd and Julie's names. Their second priority, use their platform to speak out on the state of the prison system. I think they're optimistic. And let me be clear, I think that optimism is well placed. This trial was riddled with errors, and we expect the appeals court to see that. We can help other people who are going through things like this. People who cannot afford to have proper counsel to represent them. Would

Which, let me just say, a snake infestation in Julie's prison is straight-up terrifying, if that's true. So this week, the Chrisleys are back in the headlines again, because Savannah posted on Instagram that she'd received a phone call notifying her that the appeals court had granted a request for oral arguments in her parents' case, and that this is set to begin the week of March 25th, 2024.

One of their lawyers said, and I quote, Todd is extremely pleased that the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals has granted oral arguments. It made his holiday season.

So does this mean that they will get out of prison altogether? Personally, I don't think so, but I don't know. We'll see. Maybe I'll be wrong. And if you're a fan, I'm sure you would love for me to be wrong. Now moving over back into murder, because unfortunately so many of these cases do involve murder, we're going to talk about Tiffany Lucas.

Tiffany Lucas, a 32-year-old mother from Kentucky, has been charged with two counts of murder for her two children, little Maurice Peanut Baker Jr., who is 6 years old, and Jaden Howard, who is 9 years old. And this happened on November 8th. Police say that she fatally shot her two young boys in the head in under 30 seconds and then called it an accident after four shots were fired.

After the murders, Tiffany ran outside and collapsed in a neighbor's driveway around 11 a.m., and she told a neighbor that her kids were dying. Then the neighbor made the horrifying discovery when he went into the house to check on the children and found them in a bedroom. According to the affidavit, and I quote, deputies arrived at the location and were advised by the caller that there were two victims in the bedroom who were covered in blood, and a gun was on the bed.

The children were rushed to Norton Children's Hospital. However, they died that day from their injuries. Tiffany was arrested and is currently being held on a $2 million bail. During her preliminary hearing this week, an officer testified that Tiffany said she didn't mean to hurt her children and said, and I quote, I'm in such a bad spot. I'm so stupid. And also, I would never do anything like this unless someone manipulated me.

She also apparently made statements that she was being manipulated through Facebook, through the internet, or through Wi-Fi. It was reported that during this hearing, Tiffany showed zero emotion, and some news outlets even characterized her as looking bored.

Maurice's stepmom, Michelle Rice, said that the boys were happy and that she had previously reached out to Child Protective Services, but she said that her claims weren't taken seriously enough. According to multiple sources, the Kentucky Cabinet for Health and Family Services has said that the agency is devastated by the deaths but could not comment on ongoing cases. The statement said that the agency has not had any interactions with this family over the past year.

Now, if you've been following me for a while, we have covered the Serenity McKinney case in depth, and that case also took place in Kentucky, and there were major CPS issues that were never taken seriously in that case either. I've had a lot of requests on this case, and I will be following up with it as more information comes out and we start to piece together what all happened here because this is extremely bizarre. It's unbelievably tragic, 1,000%. It's just...

Even more bizarre because there isn't any sort of identifiable route here. They're blaming the Wi-Fi, manipulation through Facebook. So not to get too conspiracy here, but is this something like a QAnon movement where people say that they get so wrapped up into this movement that they start believing things, that they have to sacrifice their children, that their children are possessed, the devil, things like that?

I don't know why else you would lean on Wi-Fi and the internet. Maybe there's something else. Maybe she's hallucinating. Maybe she's schizophrenic. I don't know. So like I said, there isn't a ton of information out there on this case, but as more information is made available, I will definitely cover it and come back to you with it.

Today's episode of Serialistly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yes, I know you are. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you are not in some kind of moving vehicle, there is something else you can be doing right now, getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

It's easy and you could save money by doing it right from your phone. Drivers who save by switching to Progressive save nearly $750 on average. And auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Discounts for having multiple vehicles on your policy, being a homeowner, and more. So just like your favorite podcast, Progressive will be with you 24-7, 365 days a year, so you're protected no matter what.

Multitask right now. Quote your car insurance at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. National average 12-month savings of $744 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts not available in all states and situations.

Go to ssa.gov slash extra help.

Paid for by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. PenFed Free Checking offers zero fees and zero balance requirements for zero hassle. PenFed Access America Checking lets you earn money on your balance for dreams big and small. Choose the best account for you and start making the most of your money. Learn more at PenFed.org. Federally insured by NCOA. To receive any advertised product, you must become a member of PenFed Credit Union. PenFed's got great rates for everyone.

Speaking of child murderers and familicide, that kind of brings us perfectly into our next topic, unfortunately, and that's the case of Chad Dorman. Now, if that name doesn't ring a bell to you, this is the Ohio father who brutally murdered his three young sons, execution style, and then admitted to law enforcement that he had been planning to do it for months. We have here a plan to slaughter three little boys, ages seven, four, and three.

The first one shot was a four-year-old shot in the house two times and sustained two bullet wounds to the head, causing his death. The second child shot was a seven-year-old who fled the West, which ran some 300 feet from the residence, and was gunned down for the high of an offender. He then approached this little boy who was injured, incapacitated, and shot him in the head twice. Then he went after the three-year-old.

Well, he was back in court this week.

This case shook the entire country when it was first reported, all because of how truly unimaginable and evil this was. And the body cam footage of police arriving on the scene to arrest Chad, who was just acting so unbelievably nonchalant as his babies, his innocent babies, were lying in the yard by their toys, it was unbelievable. It was so eerie and so creepy to watch.

The boy's poor mother was fighting for their lives, and she was actually shot in the hand while watching Chad slaughter their children. You felt like he was just angry, generally speaking. He was every day. There wasn't a day he didn't yell at his wife and kids out there. What would he yell? All kinds of s***. He was just angry. He knew what he was doing. He planned it. It was premeditated. He shouldn't have a bomb.

He should never see daylight again, ever in his life. I think they should execute him the same way they did his, the same way he did his sons is the way he needs to go out.

So of course he has pled not guilty. Not all guilty pleas, I mean not guilty pleas are alike. He pled not guilty in this case, but got a confession. And the story is pretty much he planned this thing, he executed them, the wife tried to stop him. So if you wanna say you were somewhere else and she tried to stop him, he got rid of her, not killed her, but got her out of the way, continued the killing. Why a not guilty plea in this case? What's the thinking here?

Yeah, so not guilty is a pro forma. So you're always going to plead not guilty because you can't work it all out in the first moment. So you plead pro forma, not guilty, and then your lawyers could either do a change of plea to guilty by reason of a mental insanity if that bears out or whatever other reasons come out. Also, it gives you a chance to look at the discovery and not have a sentencing. Once you plead guilty, you're staring down the barrel of a sentencing.

Now, new disturbing revelations have surfaced, and just a warning, guys, this is absolutely maddening. In court, Chad's lawyers argued that he doesn't need to wear restraints in court, or

or even during his trial because he's apparently been a model citizen in jail. And yeah, that's not a joke, not at all. Now, in fairness, most defendants don't want to do that, and their lawyers advocate for them so that they don't look even worse in front of a jury. If you can get them out of the restraints, if you can get them into a different outfit, something professional looking, people are less likely to automatically look at them and attribute guilt. So I get why the defense attorney is doing that.

that. But secondly, the defense attorney now would like the jury selection process to go a little bit differently than normal, which would happen anyways because this is a death penalty case. However, they would like to question each potential juror individually instead of normally asking a large group.

Which really isn't that unusual. But they also want convicted felons on the jury, which is something we really don't ever see. In fact, Law and Crime reported that Shana Hubers was granted her appeal after her lawyers pointed out to the fact that a convicted felon was on the jury in her first trial.

So wanting convicted felons on the jury in Ohio is something that Ohio law does allow if it's granted by the judge. But let's just be honest here. They want someone that's been in prison and has also done their time to then be on the jury so that maybe during the penalty phase, they may say, hey, prison is bad enough. We don't need to send him to death row.

I don't know, that's just my opinion. I'm just speculating here. But I really don't know any other reason to want convicted felons on the jury unless you are hoping for some sort of a sympathy card to be played or for something to feel a little bit different. I don't know. It doesn't sit right with me. I feel like it doesn't play well.

Well, it plays well for them. It doesn't play well for the prosecution and for anybody with a brain and a heart. So additionally, since this is a death penalty case, it'll be in two separate phases, the guilt phase and then, if convicted, the penalty phase. The guilt phase, as it is commonly referred to, is the trial portion where one would either get convicted or not. Well, now the defense says that they don't want this either. They don't want it referred to as the guilt phase in front of the jury because apparently they say it sounds bad.

Lastly, the defense does not want the jury to be able to see graphic photos and videos of the crime scene, which again, not necessarily surprising that they would want this, as most defense lawyers file motions like this in some of these especially heinous cases, because you don't want people witnessing that. Again, it just attributes to their guilt.

I get that the defense attorneys have to do their jobs, don't get me wrong. It's just the absolute audacity in all of these requests. It seems reaching to me, smart and strategic, but reaching and kind of like a slap in the face. Saying, oh, we don't want him in shackles. We don't want to call it the guilt phase. We want convicted felons on the jury. And now we don't want the jury to see the graphic images of what this client allegedly did to his own children.

Now here's the thing, at least in my book, absolutely nobody wants to see those types of pictures and videos. Certainly not. But at least in a trial, the jury should see what happened. That's how they come to their conclusion, a fair conclusion. Parents murdering their children is shocking to their conscience. It's cruel, it's evil, no matter what age the children are. But in this case, nothing needs to be sugar-coated.

So he should be judged for what he did, and we can't just gloss over the heinous reality of what he did because it's too graphic or it's too upsetting. At least in my opinion, you have to lay it all out on the table and let a jury decide. Isn't that why it's called having a fair trial?

So currently his trial is set to start in July of 2024, but who knows if it'll actually take place then, if it'll be delayed, what's gonna happen between now and then. So that's where we're at this week with headline highlights, guys. I hope that caught you up to speed with everything going on in the true crime world. Don't forget Friday if you're not out Black Friday shopping and fighting those crowds.

I have an all new ad free bonus episode. If you're looking to get a little bit more of your true crime fix, you can get that over here through Apple podcasts or over on Patreon, which I will put in the show notes. Also super exciting news. We also are doing a Black Friday through Cyber Monday sale on all of our merch and we are offering 30% off your entire order. So it starts on Friday, ends Monday night. Grab your stuff while you can.

We started getting all of the tumblers shipped out this week, the Make It Make Sense ones. They're the mock Stanley Cups. They're so freaking cute. I'm obsessed with them. But it's 30% off everything. So I'll put the merch site in the show notes as well below. All right, guys. If you celebrate Thanksgiving, happy Thanksgiving. Get super drunk off tryptophan in your turkey and wine or whiskey or whatever you do or water or, I don't know, get chocolate wasted with some pies or apple pie wasted, whatever it is you do.

Hope you guys all find something to be grateful for, a moment to reflect and a moment to just feel grateful as we still continue to deal with all of the horrible things going on in the true crime world. And unfortunately, all of the helpless victims that no longer will be able to celebrate Thanksgiving this year. So thank you guys so much for listening. And I will talk with you again first thing Friday morning. All right. Bye.

An official message from Medicare. A new law is helping me save more money on prescription drug costs. You may be able to save too. With Medicare's Extra Help program, my premium is zero and my out-of-pocket costs are low. Who should apply? Single people making less than $23,000 a year or married couples who make less than $31,000 a year. Even if you don't think you qualify, it pays to find out. Go to ssa.gov slash extra help.

Life is full of adventures.

Do you take this man to be your husband? I do. Welcome home. We did it. He has your eyes. He's perfect. Make the most of them all with PenFed checking and savings accounts. Learn more at PenFed.org. Federally insured by NCUA. To receive any advertised product, you must become a member of PenFed Credit Union. PenFed's got great rates for everyone.

Would you believe us if we told you our podcast is haunted? We didn't intend for this to happen. No, we did not. But apparently spirits like listening to ghost stories too. We bring you the creepiest, most unusual, and sometimes heartwarming encounters with the paranormal. Stories so chilling and so shocking that even the spirits can't help but hop on our mics and give us an occasional EVP. But we aren't the only haunted ones. Listeners of this podcast report increased levels of paranormal activity.

Our podcast brings all the ghosts to the yard, and hopefully it brings you too. Tune in to Two Girls, One Ghost wherever you listen to podcasts. It's the most haunted podcast in America. Very spooky.