69: Exposing the Dark Past of Jodi Hildebrandt & Ruby Franke of 8 Passengers
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Today's episode of Serialistly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yes, I know you are. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you are not in some kind of moving vehicle, there is something else you can be doing right now, getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

It's easy and you could save money by doing it right from your phone. Drivers who save by switching to Progressive save nearly $750 on average. And auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Discounts for having multiple vehicles on your policy, being a homeowner, and more. So just like your favorite podcast, Progressive will be with you 24-7, 365 days a year, so you're protected no matter what.

Multitask right now. Quote your car insurance at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. National average 12-month savings of $744 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts not available in all states and situations. Hey, True Crime Besties. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialistly.

Hey everybody, welcome back and happy Monday. We have got an all new episode of Serialistly today. It's me, Annie, your true crime bestie. It's finally feeling like fall outside too over here in Orange County, which let me just tell you, I'm so excited about. That's why I'm wearing my like crime story junkie sweatsuit right now. I have my sweats, the matching pants, you know, it's official merch, but I'm like wearing it cozy recording because it's actually finally turning fall outside, which I love.

So let me talk to you about today and today's episode and what we're going to be talking about because

I didn't think that I would be back on here talking about this case so soon. But, of course, more updates have come out, more documents have come out and been leaked, and the more that I started to research this case, the more in-depth in the trenches I really found myself. Not only realizing how culty this case truly is, I don't know if culty is a word, cult-ish maybe is the better word, I don't know, but culty.

Just how deep this goes and how evil and how dark-rooted these people truly are. So today, we're talking about even more updates, if you can believe it, in the case of eight passengers, Ruby Frankie and her...

bat-shit-crazy co-conspirator Jodi Hildebrandt. The recent news about the disturbing arrest of Ruby Frankie and her business partner Jodi Hildebrandt has taken the media by storm because it mostly seems like multiple red flags were missed

or overlooked by several different agencies. And as a result, that inaction led to dangerous, life-threatening consequences for Ruby's children. And more than that, while Ruby and her husband Kevin had a very strict parenting style that a lot of people had a problem with for years,

The recent news and heartbreaking, barbaric details of their children's conditions and what they were being subjected to wasn't necessarily what anyone actually thought was going on behind closed doors. It has been reported that Jodi was the one who actually did some of the physical dirty work, but that Ruby knew about it.

and she is equally responsible however there's still a lot of things that we don't know like did ruby encourage this has she ever taped up the children with duct tape before is it true that jody was the only one dealing with the children and will more information come out that changes things

Lastly, how did this overly strict but seemingly somewhat normal mom, who despite her controversial parenting decisions, never really had any indicators that she would physically torture her kids? So how did she allow this to happen? And how the heck did we get here? Also, how in the world did these women think that they could ever do

Get away with this. So in today's episode, we are going to take a deep dive into the person that many people, myself included, consider to be the mastermind behind everything.

thing. Jodi Hildebrandt. And if you are new to this case and you want to check out some of my previous podcasts and videos where we've gone over what has happened in this case in depth and then come back to this episode, everything will be linked in the description in show notes so that you could watch that first if you want and then come back here.

I do want to make a clarification before going into this. Nothing in this episode is coming down on the LDS faith. The individuals involved could be members of any religion, and I would cover this the exact same way, because it's specifically these individuals' beliefs that have led them down this path after they have manipulated and twisted their interpretation of religion to suit their own personal motivations.

whether that be ego, power, money, or whatever else is their driving factor to how they justify their behavior. While this case is in the headlines because of its wild stories involving well-known mommy vlogger, and it's been posted all over social media too, there's another aspect of this that I'm not sure is getting enough attention, and I truthfully think it needs awareness. And that's what we're going to discuss in this episode.

As always, this is an ongoing investigation and everything in this episode is alleged or is in my opinion only. So please remember to do your own research and form your own opinions. Now before we get deeper into this case, we are going to hear from our first sponsor of the episode because as you know, sponsors are essential to keep this podcast free and allow the video version of this podcast to be on YouTube for free as well.

So let's hear from the first sponsor of today's episode and then we are doing a deep dive, my friends.

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Alright guys, so without further ado, let's get into it. Teaching about shame and I went to God and I said, people can't understand the word shame. Do you have another word? Can you give me another word? And I heard one day, distorting the truth. And I was like, oh, brilliant! Distortion!

you cannot you cannot put welts on your child's legs and then lovingly apply gauze and expect healing now you might help the scars go away but the spirit has absorbed the hatred and the venom popular utah family vlogger ruby frankie was arrested wednesday it's been a really interesting experience watching everyone focus on ruby and i understand why but this is jody these are jody's words these are jody's ideas these have are

over decades old, so. - If you will stay inside truth, you will not become ill. You just won't. Now I know some people in the audience are probably like, "Well, I don't know about that." Try me out. My desire is to spread this throughout the whole entire world. - Is that why you've called Jodi the mastermind behind all of this? - Yes.

So many things in this case are so eerily similar and reminiscent to the Vallow-Daybell case, where you have this woman, Lori, who already believes that she was this powerful, spiritually gifted woman, exalted goddess, I think was the term. And you have her who meets this man, Chad Daybell, dumbbell loser, who was essentially part of a fringe group of LDS members, and they really took their beliefs to the extreme.

Chad said that he had visions and was now an enlightened, powerful, translated being from his previous near-death experiences. And he believed and preached that he was now able to speak to God, that God was working through him, and he was a messenger to help usher the 144,000 and set up the New Jerusalem, which would be in Rexburg, Idaho.

And also to prep for the second coming, which he said was July of 2020. And hi, we're all here. I think we can agree that that second coming never quite happened. Sorry, Chad. And not only all of that crazy BS, but he also thought that he would be rewarded for his actions in the afterlife. And Lori totally believed it. Like, totally.

truly believed it, hook, line, sinker, to the extreme. So now Lori, a previously somewhat normal mother who already had a predisposition to making extreme religious leaps of different ideas, believing all of Chad's batshit crazy visions for the future so much so that she allowed her husband, her two youngest children, and her boyfriend's wife to be murdered because they were zombies and possessed by dark spirits.

And of course, that just happened to have financial benefits for her, or so she thought, I guess, in Charles' case, and she still is in that delusion to this day.

Interestingly, one of the books that was so relevant to Chad Daybell, almost like the basis of all of his teachings, was Visions of Glory. And you know who else loves that book and has based much of their life's work and beliefs on that? Can you guess? I'll give you a hint. Starts with a J. Jodi Hildebrandt. What is the likelihood of that? Two culty nutjobs using the same book to put into play their insane spiritual beliefs and visions.

Today's episode of Serialistly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yes, I know you are. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you are not in some kind of moving vehicle, there is something else you can be doing right now, getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

It's easy and you could save money by doing it right from your phone. Drivers who save by switching to Progressive save nearly $750 on average. And auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Discounts for having multiple vehicles on your policy, being a homeowner, and more. So just like your favorite podcast, Progressive will be with you 24-7, 365 days a year, so you're protected no matter what.

Multitask right now. Quote your car insurance at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. National average 12-month savings of $744 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts not available in all states and situations.

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paid for by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Now let's take a pause on Jodi.

It's no secret that Ruby has had her fair share of critics, and rightfully so. For some of her decisions, the way she was exploiting her children, regarding making her children content for the entire internet to just watch, judge, comment on, speculate, etc., combined with a parenting style that many believe goes far beyond just strict parenting. But would she be in the position that she's in today, in jail without bond for felony child abuse charges, if she had never met Jodi Hildebrandt?

and got involved with her company, Connections? Was meeting Jodi in some way a catalyst? And what is Connections? Is Connections a cult? Is Ruby, in fact, brainwashed? Not that that makes her any less guilty in any sort of way, just like Lori Vallow.

But what exactly are they teaching at Connections? How long has this been going on? And most importantly, how many other children whose parents were involved in Connections have had to endure torture at the hands of Jodi or their own parents? This is Connections According to Jodi. So let me tell you a little bit about what I've been doing. For the last 20 years, I've been trying to figure out how to help my clientele. I've been working with tens of thousands of people for 20 years, and I've been trying

asking God about how to help heal them from this array of mental and emotional illness. So all of us know that depression, anxiety, suicidality, all these presenting issues and symptoms that come into your office or in your families or maybe are even inside you,

And so I have been on this journey trying to understand how to use principles that are God's in helping people heal. So that was a clip from the Eternal Core Conference in April of 2020.

In this, Jodi describes how she got to this belief system. Jodi grew up as the sixth of seven children, and she described her parents as emotionally shut down, and that she didn't realize that as a child, but she does now, saying, and I quote, "...they were emotionally completely not available for me or for any of the other children, and so chaos went on in our house a lot, and none of us were really allowed to emote, other than to get angry."

So she learned how to be really nice, kind, helpful, gracious. So some of you who are clinicians are probably like, whoa, she's setting herself up for addiction. Sure enough, I ended up with an eating disorder, right? I started trying to control everything because I had no outlet to emote my emotions. I had nobody there to validate me and say, yeah, that makes sense that when your brother, you know, puts you into a pretzel, that that would hurt and that you would want to tell him stop. You don't like that. I wasn't allowed to do that.

So I went on my own journey. I went to therapists and tried to figure out, you know, one, what was going on with me, and two, how to heal it. And unfortunately, and I would say inadvertently because I met some lovely people, and what they did is they validated what I'll call my victim. They reinforced me to stay where I'm at and said, yeah, you have every right to feel this way. I didn't know any better. I thought that that would help me get better is if they said, yeah, this is reasonable why you feel the way you do.

And I didn't have anyone, at least I didn't hear it in my head. Give me a transitional bridge to move over into what I now know as truth. So I would leave my therapy sessions and I would feel heard, but I'd still go back into my eating disorder behaviors and control and being really nice and helpful and friendly. I didn't really heal. My soul wasn't healing. So I went into graduate school sick. And I learned all the principles in graduate school and I went out to work with drug addicts. It was my very first job.

And as I sat across one of my very first clients, he presented in a very, what I'll call, adulating way. He was very narcissistic, and he had a tragedy happen to his son. And he became really aggressive with me when I would invite him to look at his own behavior. He's like, listen, I just had this tragedy with my son. My son is super sick, and this isn't about me. This is about helping my son get better. And I'm like, well, what if your son doesn't get better?

And he went into this place that I will introduce originally called distortion. And I'm going to talk more about distortion this afternoon. He went into a place of distortion. And he would get angry at me, which is this is part of his distortion. He'd get angry at me. He'd want to blame me. He'd want to blame his wife. He'd want to blame God. He started blaming all these people. And what I learned as I worked with him is that as I gradually started confronting him with three principles, this is what I learned.

Teach him how to be responsible for himself. Teach him how to be honest and teach him to be humble.

So I started working with him. And she goes on to describe their relationship as a love-hate relationship and that he was more on the hate side of things. And then five years later, this man called Jodi and said, hey, you've saved my life now. I know it wasn't me. Nobody ever confronted me. Nobody ever invited me to be responsible for my behavior. All of the things. So you just heard that. She said that she met a man whose son was a drug addict.

And Jodi's response is to tell the father that he's responsible. And then she says that based on this interaction and many others, she started to apply these prohibitions.

principles. When people come into my office, I get a spattering of diagnoses, right? Those of you who are clinicians, you have a spattering of diagnoses. Out in the world, out in the community, we have everything from suicide to gender confusion to depression to anxiety to addictions, all different kinds of addiction, control issues, divorce, right? On and on and on. It seems like the world's coming apart at the seams, okay? This is what I'm experiencing that we're not healing from,

abuse, resentments, fears, feelings of worthlessness, entitlement, depression, anxiety, defensiveness. Okay, and I could make another, you know, four lists of things that we're not healing from. Here's the key. This is the key. Responsibility. Re-sponsibility. I am responsible for three things.

I've learned this over, like I said, over the last decade plus. I am responsible for my own perception, which means my thoughts. And then when I perceive, then feel emotions. And when I feel emotions, it's because of my perceptions. And when I perceive and then feel emotions, then I then choose to behave. And so I'm responsible for that whole process.

everything even when I'm depressed so when I talk to people they'll say yeah yeah that's nice and good but I have depression and I'm like okay wait stop you missed what I just said to you and then they'll say to me are you suggesting that I'm responsible for my depression and I'll say yes you are that's one thing if you don't know me I'm really blunt really direct some people hate that some people love that it's like tell me more that feels right

Because I'm not suggesting that you are a bad and unworthy person. I'm suggesting that you don't have the skills and the tools to really understand how to apply these principles that are being governed by your choices. So there's four principles I want to hone in today on. Choice, honesty, responsibility, and vulnerability, which means be open, be teachable.

I'm hoping that everybody in this room is vulnerable today, that they're open, that you're willing to consider what I'm saying because this is a brand new modality. Not that responsibility is a new concept, but the way I'm angling it towards mental health is brand new. So if you're depressed, it's your fault. And you're not an unworthy person, but you don't have honesty, responsibility, or vulnerability.

And now by addressing these issues, which she says is a brand new modality that she came up with, which hello, no, it's not. But if you come to Jodi, she can help you. Other principles that I learned is that in order to connect to yourself slash another person, I have to live honest, responsible, humble. Because when I'm not honest, responsible, and humble, I am then disconnected. And disconnection manifests like this. Control.

Aggression, anxiety, presentations where the person is either unknowingly or deliberately not being willing to take responsibility for those three principles: their perceptions, their emotions, and their behavioral choices. So I'm either in a relationship or I'm just in a dynamic. Dynamic just means that you and I are talking but we're not connecting, right? Everybody here knows what it feels like to connect with somebody.

I've been talking to many of you over the course of this morning and this afternoon, and numerous of you, you walk away and I'm like, whoa, that person's connected. They're connected.

The other principles to live with include characters of truth, humbleness, honesty, responsibility, and vulnerability, or else you are disconnected and you manifest control, aggression, and anxiety. She goes on to say that she's learned that the only things she can control are her thoughts, feelings, and behavioral choices, and that she cannot control anything else. And then she uses an example where she talks about a parent-child relationship. Oh, I wish I could control them.

I wish I could get them to do what I want to do and you just can't. But when you try, you then disconnect from them because you go into a controlling posture. You go into a dynamic instead of a relationship with them. So people will say, well, if I love this person, then how do I get them to... And I'm like, can you hear how you're going down control lane? You can't get them to. Your job is to speak the truth...

to them about their responsibility, which is they're responsible for their own perceptions, their own feelings, and their own behavioral choices. So no more of this. You made me do this. Because of you, I feel. If you wouldn't have done that, then I wouldn't have done this. All of that is called distortion.

which means distorting the truth. So by controlling others, that is distortion or distortion of truth. And then she says that each and every one of us is responsible for learning these principles for ourselves. And then if you have charge over anyone else, such as children, grandchildren, clients, et cetera, you have a responsibility to teach them these principles too, so that they too can be released from distortion. Okay.

Now this next part is actually particularly interesting because of how Jodi says that God told her about distortion. You have a responsibility to teach them these principles so that they too can be released from what I call distortion. So many of you know this word is shame. I started using the shame word for probably, I don't know, five years and people were having the hardest time wrapping their head around shame, what shame was. And I

was teaching about shame and I went to God and I said, people can't understand the word shame. Do you have another word? Can you give me another word? And I heard one day, distorting the truth. And I was like, oh, brilliant. Distortion. Here's what distortion is. I break it into two groups. This is core. You got to know this. Self-denigrating distortion, self-adulating distortion. Every single one of us goes into distortion.

So and now the grand finality of what Jodi believes to be her purpose and her goal throughout all of this. To me, this is the most grandiose and almost manacle rhetoric that reminded me of how authoritarian leaders and dictators are portrayed in movies, giving speeches about taking over the world or something like that. Or even Dr. Evil, I don't know, take a listen and if you're watching this over on YouTube, let me know in the comments what you think.

Personally, I don't think that she's speaking in metaphor. I think she legitimately wants to spread what she perceives as God's message to her to the entire world. And you are scheduled, as am I, to have hard, difficult experiences. And you are being asked by your Maker to stay inside truth. If you will stay inside truth, you will not become ill.

You just won't. Now, I know there's some people in the audience who are probably like, I don't know about that. Try me out. You start living in truth. I don't know anybody who lives in truth that is emotionally and spiritually sick. I don't know anybody. I don't know thousands of people who have done this.

My desire is to spread this throughout the whole entire world, to teach as many people and therapists and mental health professionals and health professionals who want to start empowering their clients. Regardless of where your client has been, if they've had traumas or abuses, they can heal.

If they have sinned, if they have been making choices such as, you know, acting out an addiction, acting out contrary to their value system, if that is why they're having distortion, this can heal that as well. In that clip, Jodi says that if you're living in the truth, you can't get sick. And you can also avoid many other health-related problems.

Well, Jodi, when you were arrested, your lawyer literally asked for an expedited bond hearing because you were experiencing a life-threatening medical issue. So was that a choice? Were you living in truth? I don't know. You tell me. One of the things I also found while researching was a comment in the Moms of Truth Facebook group.

I took this screenshot myself, which you can see over on the YouTube version, so I can 100% verify this was not edited in any way. But it's a comment under a video of Jodi where someone asks if she has had Botox. And Jodi responds, I have not had any Botox. It's called living in truth. The complexion of truth. Okay. Insert mega eye roll here. I can't.

I just can't with her. And let me just add really quick too here. Anytime somebody is talking about their direct connection and speaking to God about applying something called principles or being in distortion or dark spirits or what's the other one? A suppressed person. All of these things, just for me, my opinion, cult, cult, cult, cult, cult, cult, cult. Because nobody else uses those words.

Nobody else uses those descriptors. It's somebody who is trying to, in my opinion, brainwash and kind of do some sort of sick mind control over other people. Otherwise, you don't use phrases like that. You definitely don't use verbiage like that. It, to me, just screams cult. I can't say it loud enough. Just my opinion. Don't come and try to sue me, Jodi. Now let's have a quick word from the next sponsor of today's episode, and then we're going to dig into this a little bit deeper.

Today's episode of Serialistly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yes, I know you are. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you are not in some kind of moving vehicle, there is something else you can be doing right now, getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

It's easy and you could save money by doing it right from your phone. Drivers who save by switching to Progressive save nearly $750 on average. And auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Discounts for having multiple vehicles on your policy, being a homeowner, and more. So just like your favorite podcast, Progressive will be with you 24-7, 365 days a year, so you're protected no matter what.

Multitask right now. Quote your car insurance at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. National average 12-month savings of $744 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts not available in all states and situations. An official message from Medicare.

So here's my question.

When did all of this start for Jodi? Maybe as early back as 2001? In this interview, Jodi discusses her thesis in her studies called The Experiences of LDS Women and How Their Culture Influences Manifestations of Their Sexuality.

It says, "This presentation is a progress report on the data I have collected so far in my research on the sexuality of Mormon women, ages 30 through 50. It contains both quantitative and qualitative analysis, and I will include several findings that have caught me somewhat by surprise. In particular, I have begun to note differences in attitudes toward sexuality in women who were raised LDS, yet taken to church by relatives and friends.

in contrast to attitudes of those who had a more traditional Mormon upbringing. I have also found striking remarks by women about how much the language used to describe sex and intimacy, especially when they were teenagers, has negatively affected their feelings about their own sexuality.

She starts off by saying that she has lived in Utah for 13 to 14 years and says that she grew up in Arizona and that her family life was fairly rigid LDS. Later on, she got married, and up until that point, she had never questioned her upbringing. But once her marriage dissolved, she says that it was quite a shock to me as my upbringing did not prepare me for that.

And then, as she was going through her divorce, she started attending the University of Utah, and she was accepted into the Educational Psychology Department. As I began my study there, I met a woman who is a professor of mine, took a class from her, and I divulged that I was LDS. At that point, I didn't realize that that was something I probably should not say at the center of the valley. But she was very polite about the church.

And numerous times we have conversations about the beliefs and shape questions she was seeing different clients and wanted to know more about the teachings of the church.

And I felt like I was somewhat of a representative of the Mormon faith to answer some of her questions. So this professor is asking her questions, and she felt like she was the representative of the Mormon faith to answer all of these. So one day she asked me, I have a client and I would like to know if it is okay for elderly women to masturbate. And I kind of sat up abruptly. I'd never been asked a question like that.

And I said, you know, I don't know if that was how I... And it was at that point that I started really thinking about what the church teaches and how the church has influenced me as an individual and my sexuality. And if they would consider each individual woman as a separate entity instead of a big global group of people...

And so that probably was the impetus of my wanting to study this particular topic. More questions are needed to be asked, and my desire is to genuinely know and comprehend these women's voices and the meanings they have put to their sexual development. From the women who feel silenced because of their religion to the women who are silent because of the sacredness of their religion and to the array of women in between, the study is to know them and how they interpret their sexuality. I also would like to say that...

I was quite surprised to find the support that I received was very positive from an array of members, some with leadership positions, some with, I always think of the church as a hierarchy, people who maybe don't feel like they have as much power in the church. I have not met, to this point, any type of leadership.

negative interactions or comments as far as this topic. Everybody seems to want to understand LDS women and why they, maybe not why, but how they have interpreted their own meanings. I chose this particular research because I felt like it would be more, it would represent what these women are saying much more than a figure or a fact of a

So we have themes, enjoys touch, and these are just some of the themes that I've come up with thus far. Underneath the themes, you'd have particular categories. Love of spouse, high esteem, trust, fear of sex would be abuse, father, it's sinful. And I left mom's roles open because I'd like to discuss that after Karen gets done speaking. I received a lot of interesting comments on the roles of mothers.

It's another talk for another time, though, I'm sure. Underneath the categories would be the particular quotes, statements from the women themselves, so that it reinforces these themes.

And the thing that is very important with doing a qualitative analysis is that you go over it constantly. You're always looking for new themes, for new information, for new ways of looking at things. So I will be in constant contact with my participants to make sure that I'm understanding them accurately. And my viewpoint was that the women who were raised outside of the church, well, not outside the church, but were raised outside,

as far as their home life, did not have the church in their home life, were reporting to have healthier views of sexuality than women who were raised with mom and dad in the church. So to me, it was more of a familial influence. The culture within the family structure

Like I said, which completely caught me broadside. And as I've interviewed the complete 23 women, probably over half of them have this experience where mom and dad were not the primary instructors of the religion in the home. They were trying to convert me, if you will, to the teachings.

I feel like I was given more genuine information and beliefs and feelings and values from them once they were put at ease that I did know what they were talking about. Another theme was that a lot of the women talked in generalities. There were some that were very explicit, very detailed, but a lot of them spoke in general terms.

They would say the word sex and sexuality, but it would always be followed by the word sacred. And I began to question, what exactly does that word mean? Does that mean private? And I want to...

The word just left me. Anyways, the word sacred. Is it a private part of my life? Or is it something that I feel silenced about? I do not know exactly what that word means to the women that spoke to me. It's something else that I want to check with them. I'm sure that it means different things to different people. But I found that that word was used numerous times in the interview process. They were comfortable talking about sexuality. But when asked...

If they would be comfortable talking to a neighbor or a relative, when I probed them a little bit more, it was very difficult for them to say that they would. They wanted to defer to the bishop, state president, to a spouse. And so I pushed a little bit and said, you know, what if they don't feel comfortable talking to these men and they need a woman's perspective? There were probably four or five that...

Said that would not be appropriate. The church would not condone them talking to them about intimacy, sexuality, because of the sacredness. Five to seven women in each group. I've had three thus far. And it's been fascinating to watch others' meanings being projected outward into the group.

Like I said before, I was thinking that people were going to be fairly silent and give yes-no answers. But to my surprise, the groups have been very vocal. And one woman in particular became quite angry as she asserted, leaning over another lady, pointing her finger, Jane, you are wrong. To me, it wasn't about right or wrong. It was...

It was showing me how deeply our values are rooted in us and why it can be so difficult to change or alter what is no longer serving us and also where judgment comes from. All of them reported that they were actively wanting and trying to give their children a better and more satisfying picture of sexuality than they received. They want to be more open in answering their questions and actually give them information

to their questions of why instead of because or the church said not to. I realize you probably have questions which I would love your feedback.

So next year I intend to be here and give you a final analysis of what it is that I found and what we as members and not members of the church can do with our own children to teach them a more healthy version and form of their own sexuality. Thank you. Now this was in 2001, and her final study was later published in 2003.

This is obviously an older recording, but it's crazy to hear Jodi in her own words talk about this topic and the vast difference in her own actions moving forward. And while listening, it seems like, oh, maybe she did this study. Maybe she would want to make a positive change, not to make sexuality or even just basic discussions about puberty and things like that that go along with it very awkward for children or teach them that it's something to be ashamed of. But no, that is not what she did. All of that

All of that was evidenced by her niece's interviews with the Mormon Stories podcast and other news outlets. The links to full interviews will be in the show notes and video description if you want to see or hear the whole thing. I was giving Book of Mormons out at school. I had never done drugs. I had never had anything close to sex. I didn't even know. She was convinced I was also masturbating. I was a mat like I had a masturbation problem. I didn't even know

female anatomy people could masturbate. I didn't even know that. But I would, because she was convinced, I was also not allowed to use tampons because she was convinced I was masturbating with them, which is insane. So things got progressive. This sounds like projection. I don't know if it's projection. It's so, I know. So,

Things got progressively worse and worse and worse because I wasn't getting better. She was, she, she would say, I'm trying to make you so physically uncomfortable that it forces the sin out. And so that's when she started, I would had to sleep outside in the snow. That's when I was, um, so, uh, when she would lock me in this, in her, she worked in Lehigh and

in like the, there was a little side office closet kind of room. It was like a little bit bigger than a closet, but it didn't have any windows. It had like a table, a chair, an actual closet. And that's kind of about, that's about it. So that's where I, when I, when I was pulled out of school and I started living with her full time because she worked, I went with her to work and that's where I stayed. And sometimes she would lock me in it. Sometimes she wouldn't, but I was not allowed to leave. That was like,

Rule number one, I was not allowed to leave that room. And she would have me write out my sins on a piece of paper. And every day she gave me the same piece of paper. And I would have to write out my sins. And these sins that I was writing out, I was like,

And again, I believed all this. I believed this fully. So I was like, oh, there must be more in me. I'm trying. I'm trying to think. Oh, one time I lied to my best friend, Scotty. And like, these are the types of things I'm writing out. And then she would come back in, take that paper, read it to me, make me get on my hands and knees and beg for forgiveness as she read this back to me. And then she was like, no, this isn't it. This is not it. This isn't all. There's more. There's more. There's more. And

There wasn't. And I would start making things up because I was like, I don't know. And because she was convinced there was more, things got worse and worse and worse. And she said, I cannot be around my mom. I can't ever be around her again, because if she told me the sky was yellow, I would believe her. She has this ability to like alchemy, like, like just

get into your soul. It's like, it is horrifying and there's no real way of explaining it to people unless you've experienced it. Or if you've experienced this level of emotional abuse, there's no way of really like having you, there's no way of understanding it. So I. Narcissistic cult leader comes to mind.

yeah um i don't know if this is if this is fully true but i am from what i understand she's been diagnosed with many many um issues including psychopathy but jody is the mastermind here not ruby ruby is still responsible and like should be arrested for harming her children for sure and i'm sure jody like

used that, used what was already there, which is what she does. She uses what's already there to her advantage. Jodi is the one doing this. This is Jodi's therapeutic ideas. These are Jodi's ideas that she has been doing for over 14 years. This is not new. This is a pattern. And I cannot... I'm just so grateful that these children...

A, were taken out of that care, not care, but out of custody from them. She believes this. This is the thing that she fully believes in her own bullshit. She believes that she is inspired by God. Jodi. Jodi. Jodi. Yeah. And so when you believe, when you have that level of delusions of grandeur,

You are so powerful and so convincing to people. And she, and when you, and when you, when you, when you preface it as a, I'm doing this because I'm saving their soul in a, in a, in a system and in a culture that, I mean, she's just playing right into it. She's just playing right into those hands of like,

Of course I want my child's soul to be saved. Of course. Yeah, no, pornography. Pornography is the worst thing. It's so evil. She believed if you watch porn... Her belief is if you watch porn one time, you're an addict. And if you're an addict, which that would make most people of the universe an addict, then you need surgery because you are sick and Satan is working through you. And so...

And I think she, I think it also plays into this like, you are special kind of belief that I think a lot of people like the Mormon church kind of instills, which is something that I had to like really unlearn. Because I held on to this belief for a long time that like, oh, all of the suffering is for a purpose.

All of the suffering is preparing me. All of the suffering is, you know, purifying me. It's making me humble. It's making me teachable, you know, like Job. And I think a lot of people justify or rationalize behavior and treatment because of that. I'm just speculating here, but one of the things that is so bizarre about this is how much projection Jodi has.

In addition to this interview, Jesse also mentioned how much Jodi has criticized the church, how much she hates men, specifically that the vast majority of men are evil, including church leaders, and how some of the leaders are actually idiots.

But that Jodi had all of the answers, almost in the way of jealousy or bringing somebody down just because they have what you want. And in Jodi's case, I believe that it was power. Jesse also said one of the most chilling things to me, and it was, if Jodi was born a man, it's terrifying to think about how much power she would have.

Today's episode of Serialistly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yes, I know you are. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you are not in some kind of moving vehicle, there is something else you can be doing right now, getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

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Recently, the affidavit for the search warrant of Jody's house was released, and it revealed just how disgusting the children were treated. According to the warrant, when officers arrived, they observed the wounds and the malnourishment of the child to be severe, and he was transported to the St. George Regional Hospital. The child was placed on a medical hold due to his deep lacerations from being tied up with rope and from his malnourishment. In the report, it states they were abnormally thin and weak.

The child told medical personnel and police that his wounds were from the rope and that it was used to tie the victim to the ground. The child identified Jodi as the one who put the rope around their ankles and wrists and that she used cayenne pepper and honey as a mixture and smeared it into the wounds as a way to dress the wounds. Duct tape was used to both bind the child and dress the lacerations.

Police also found two sets of handcuffs, rope, duct tape, and cayenne pepper and honey paste next to medical gauze dressings.

In the documents, it also said that Ruby left her three children in the care of Jodi. Officers also seized three iPhones and five Mac computers from the house, as well as Jodi's iPhone. So just as Jesse has said in interviews, Jodi is still doing the same thing. I think she's making things up about Ruby's son, Russell, and honestly trying to make him so physically uncomfortable that he confesses or gets out of his distortion and then goes along with all of the ideology of connections.

When I was going through the podcast episodes, just the names alone, I kept thinking, why is there such a focus on children or teens and giving advice to parents about how to, in my opinion, control them or shape them to Jodi's standards regarding sexuality? And even just that statement alone is so creepy. But so many episodes were about that.

What is this obsession about these sexual elements in children? It's absolutely sickening. And again, I think this is serious projection on Jodi's part.

And I say that because in some of my other videos and episodes on here, when I dove into this a little deeper, she is so completely fixated on men having an obsession and addiction to masturbation, to pornography, to all of these things. But then if we go back to what she wrote in the early 2000s about Mormon women, about them speaking and coming into their own sexuality, to me, and this is again just my opinion, it's

It feels like projection because perhaps she was struggling with her own sexuality, her own impulses, things she felt were unpure or sins. And then she started projecting that onto men as though their actions, their urges, their materialism,

material that they watched in the privacy of their own home was a sin and that it put them in distortion. I think it all stems from her herself. That's just my opinion though. What do you think? In one of the Connections podcast episodes from November of 2022, Ruby talks about medical gauze on children's wounds. And it is so disturbing, but it's also so specific to what they were just arrested for and what the police found at Jodi's house recently.

Of course, it could be a coincidence that Ruby happened to make up the exact example her children would later suffer from, but I don't really think so. You cannot. You cannot put welts on your child's legs and then lovingly apply gauze and expect healing. Now, you might help the scars go away, but the spirit has absorbed the hatred and the venom. So my question is, how many other parents were given this exact same advice? And more than that, how the hell is she still convincing parents to do this?

Again, it feels so eerily similar to Lori and Chad Daybell, where it seems like Lori was extremely susceptible to these ideas being truths. I think it's very similar to Ruby being susceptible to Jodi's parenting advice, being like the word of God or holier than thou, not only because of her profession, but because of her ideological teachings.

And the things that we show and share and the things that many of you are criticizing and calling abusive are actually things that mental health professionals have counseled us to do. We got accused of child abuse when we sent Chad to Anasazi. Guess what? The first thing that they did was take a bed away.

They don't have beds. People are really triggered. And so if you are triggered and you're upset because of something Kevin and I have done with our children that is actually working really well for us, then I would invite you to look at it and ask yourself,

What is it that I'm projecting onto this situation? Kevin literally says they aren't doing anything wrong and that everything was at the advice of a therapist, which of course, that therapist is Jodi. And this was all to justify their parenting styles to the public. This is just my opinion and speculation, but part of me wonders if, for Ruby specifically, there was another element here.

It's been speculated that Ruby has some characteristics of narcissism. And if we're to pretend that's true, and she is, well, wouldn't Jodi's entire message and ideology give Ruby the biggest confirmation bias of all time? Because now she's hearing from an expert, an expert therapist in family and marriage-based counseling, that maybe her ideas of harsh punishment meant that she was actually the best parent.

That she was enlightened, she was an enlightened being, she was right the whole time, everybody else is wrong, and she used that as a way to feel justified in her actions and make her believe further that she's doing this for her children to save their souls? And if that's true, what's in it for Jodi in all of this? What is her motive in all of this?

Personally, I think she saw Ruby as a meal ticket, a Mormon mom influencer with a very large following that Jodi could use as a way to spread her ideology and thinking to the world. Which, yes, I know it's insane, but I can see it. A lot of these Mormon moms in that community and who follow the LDS faith loved Ruby.

Ruby's family loved watching the passengers videos, idolized them until the parenting styles got a little bit controversial, but loved them. So if Jodi were to step into that and say, I'm the family counselor, I'm the family therapist, this family trusts me. Don't you think that these Mormon mothers who...

Maybe we're wannabe vloggers, maybe not, maybe just idolized from afar this family, but don't you think that if they were to bear witness to all of that, it would carry weight with them? So that if they were having issues within their own families, within their own marriages, they could reach out to Jodi and say, Oh my gosh, Jodi, who helped Ruby Frankie's family, who works with them, who works with the 8 Passengers channel, she's gonna help my family. It's only X amount of dollars. Write the check. Let her help us.

It seems like a very smart tactic and, honestly, not very far-fetched in my opinion. Also, many of Jodi's past clients have spoken out against her, saying that she destroyed marriages and has a pattern of isolating the husbands. Is it possible that Jodi got Kevin out of the way through her marriage counseling and recommendations to Ruby?

possibly it seemed like she hated men she hated everything about him whether they were children or grown up grown men seemed like she just hated males that she was gonna either break them apart from their marriages whether they were in a happy marriage or unhappy marriage she was gonna label them as being in distortion because they looked at another woman wrong because they flirted because they have thoughts of sex which hi newsflash literally almost every man on the planet

has those visions and thoughts of women and like, let's just call it what it is. Like, I don't think that's living in distortion. What you do with those thoughts and how you act on it, that's a whole different conversation. But it seems like Jodi really just had like a complex. Hating men, wanting money, wanting power, and wanting to have control over women and how they parented their children. But that's not even the worst part or what blew my mind the most in all of my research.

Another parallel from the Vallow Daybell case is this situation's isolation of Ruby's spouse and later her kids.

If you haven't heard of the channel Hidden True Crime, it is honestly one of my favorites. Lauren and Dr. John have covered this in depth, this case as well as so many others. So be sure to go and check out their channel and subscribe. Their channel link and all of their information for their show will be in the show notes and the description. But John is a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist with 30 years of experience in both clinical and forensic work.

He created a diagram and a theory about the inner workings of Jodi's belief systems and how she uses them under the guise of therapy and connections. And it is absolutely brilliant. It's okay if we're doing harmful things to people, but because a mental health professional told us it's okay. Right. Which, by the way, the other part of this is blaming the victim. Like, you know...

I mean, we'll get into that more later, but let's just say that this is troubling, this perspective. And to say the least is troubling, but it also speaks to the power dynamic. This, by the way, is another example.

reason that mental health professionals have such binding ethical codes because in many mental health professional relationships, many therapeutic relationships, there's a power imbalance. There's a power differential. You go to someone, you go to a therapist when you're vulnerable and

with a lot of shameful information, and then you disclose it to someone who is supposed to help you process or understand or cope with that information. And so the person that you're going to for help clearly in that dynamic has power over you. They're in what we call a one-up position. And so that would be true of Jodi as well. Every client that came to her for help with parenting or

parenting practices or marital difficulties. They're all vulnerable. We heard this from several of her patients. One of the patients we heard from said that she was extremely vulnerable. She was traumatized. She was having marital problems. And she went to Jodi in a state of disrepair. Yes. She was very needy. And she believed that Jodi completely took advantage of that.

So, so that's part of this clearly is that, that power differential. Yes. What I think the guiding beliefs are in this case. And I want to talk about that. We're going to break that down a little bit and try to explain it, but let's start with at the very top, you'll see what I call an addiction mindset. So one of the most interesting things that came out of some of the people we talked to this week was that people said over and over that addiction

Jody believes everyone is an addict. So even if you're not an addict, so people would push back on that and say, I'm not an addict. I don't have this problem. I don't have, you know, I don't do drugs. I don't do whatever the addiction is.

Jody would disagree and tell them repeatedly you're an addict. So Adam Steed was quite frank about that. I can mention his name because you did the interview. Adam Steed said that Jody was really adamant about saying everyone is an addict. We heard from another previous client of Jody's that said, quote, everyone has an addiction. If you try to tell her that you don't have an addiction, she will disagree with you and convince you that you have an addiction. So

Jodi is very much invested in this idea of what I call the addiction mindset. You can see that at the top. And the reason that's important is because we're going to get into this idea of sin and sinners, which is a big part of her belief system. And to me, this addiction mindset is very much similar. When I thought about this and I was trying to put it in context, it's very similar to the idea of original sin, I think, in the sense that

Whether you are an addict or not, it doesn't really matter. Everyone is born an addict. And the goal is because you're an addict and because you're unhealthy and because you're in distortion, and we'll talk about that in a minute, that you need to find the truth. The only way to free yourself from addiction is to find the truth and to find healing. And the way you heal is

is through what Jody calls spiritual surgery. Spiritual surgery is casting out all sin or removing sin, or at least getting someone to confess sin. So you begin with this addiction mindset, whether you're an addict or not, it doesn't matter. And again, if I reference Adam Steed, Adam Steed was a victim of abuse as a child. He went through a horrific trauma,

You can listen to Lauren's interview for more details. But he went to see, he was referred to Jody for treatment, and he was placed in a group to help him with treatment. And here's the mind-boggling part about this story, is that he's a victim, clearly a victim. That was documented very well. Goes to see Jody. She puts him in a group for offenders. And she tells him, well, you're really an offender. You just don't know it yet.

But I'm going to show you that because of the way you think, because you have an addiction mindset, because you're an addict, that you're really an offender. And that just blew me away. At first when I heard that, I thought, no, that didn't happen. Like if I brought a victim into one of my offender groups, and I've done offender groups for years.

I would lose my license or I would probably feel so guilty about it. I would give my license up. Like you don't bring victims into offender groups and then try to convince the victims that they're really offenders. That is just not best practice. It's actually, it's unthinkable, but it goes back to this idea of addiction mindset. And as Adam pointed out, whether you're an addict or not, it doesn't matter to Jody. You're an addict because you're born a sinner and

And the goal is to cast out sin. So we're all born sinners. We all have some satanic components. We're all, I guess, demonic to some degree. And we'll later learn that she calls that distortion. That's a word she uses all the time. It's a word that Ruby uses all the time, by the way. So anybody who's ever been to see Jodi will use the word distortion often.

On repeat endlessly. That's, that's her big word distortion. So I'm going to make a t-shirt that says distorted and proud. I don't want your truth. I'm good being distorted. Leave me alone, Jody. Okay. I want to point out that I'm not sure. I'm not sure where Jody was when her theories of psychotherapy classes were being taught, but I don't know if she was present, but she,

This idea of responsibility is obviously key to many therapies. Jodi thinking that this is somehow original or unique to her is absurd. I can name a few therapies right off the top of my head that put responsibility and choice at the forefront. I just mentioned that she's essentially using cognitive behavioral ideas to

perceptions lead to emotions, lead to... That's CBT. She's ripping off CBT and saying it's hers. And then this idea of choice and responsibility, existential psychotherapy, which probably finds its roots in like the 1950s, 60s. The basis of existential psychotherapy is responsibility. Some of you may remember...

The French philosopher Jean-Paul Sartre, who said that we're all condemned to be free, that we all have to make choices in life. We're all ultimately responsible for our own behaviors. These ideas are not new to Jody Hildebrandt.

But she wants you to believe they are. So that was honestly just a tiny slice of the knowledge and the incredible insight that Lauren and Dr. John have. And I think that we will be doing a collaboration soon. I've had them on the podcast before, and I want to have them on again to really share a deep dive into

Jodi Hildebrandt's mind and even the mind of Ruby Frankie how these people allow themselves if Ruby did in fact get brainwashed at all to an extent how it works how does the mind control work how does a cult leader or person like this truly break the other person down to believing and hanging on their every word so a collab is coming soon so stay tuned for that but in the meantime definitely go check out their podcast their YouTube channel because they have so much insight

Today's episode of Serialistly is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yes, I know you are. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you are not in some kind of moving vehicle, there is something else you can be doing right now, getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance.

It's easy, and you could save money by doing it right from your phone. Drivers who save by switching to Progressive save nearly $750 on average. And auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Discounts for having multiple vehicles on your policy, being a homeowner, and more. So just like your favorite podcast, Progressive will be with you 24-7, 365 days a year, so you're protected no matter what.

Multitask right now. Quote your car insurance at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. National average 12-month savings of $744 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts not available in all states and situations. An official message from Medicare.

So

So at this point in researching this case, I became convinced that this was absolutely, no doubt, in black and white, a cult. Hi, we are live in Mapleton, Utah, at a home of somebody who is learning how to be a mental fitness trainer. And we have Ruby here.

And Ruby is a part of the original 10 women that are being trained to become mental fitness trainers. So Ruby, you want to tell us about what a mental fitness trainer is? Yes. So we are getting mentally fit the same way your body would get physically fit by running and lifting weights and working with a personal trainer. We are getting ready to be your mental fitness trainer. We're getting truth,

Really easy to teach. We're making it very

simple, boiling it down to principles. That's how you're going to understand truth is really knowing principles, being able to put words to it and help you. And you're going to feel so much better. Absolutely. So I'm just going to span over here. We've got, uh, there we go. Tori and Sherry, how are you feeling about what you're, what you're getting ready to go out and do teaching truth to the world? Excited. So

Coming to a town near you. And here's Kim and Jess. Hello. Becky, Liz, Michelle. And then we got Johnny over there. And Johnny. And Johnny. And Johnny. There's Paige. Did you get Pam? No, Pam's over here. There's Pam.

Johnny is our male person who comes in and does the role play for the male so we can practice. So he's quite talented to do the role plays with us, so we appreciate Johnny. Johnny's a man of truth as well, and he's also a mental fitness trainer.

So, so glad that you're with us. And any of you who are interested in becoming a mental fitness trainer, we are going to open that up to train other people. So give us a call or email us at support at connections classroom dot com. And maybe you can come to the next retreat for the come work out with us. That's right. Come work out. Put you to work.

Bye! It has all of the makings of a cult down to a T. And someone who left connections almost a year ago commented about the reasons why she left online.

She said, The first one was shame-based learning. She said, Even though they teach you that there's no right or wrong, and they intensely shame you for it, even though they teach against feeling shame.

Second is crazy making. They teach you that your reality is off, to not trust your own judgment. They tell you that you did something that you didn't even do and when you can verifiably see that you didn't. They gang up on you and aggressively repeat over and over that you are wrong and that you did that thing and you have to admit it or they will cut you off their terrible communication until you admit you did this terrible thing. To any people individually in connections, phone calls, and in the group setting, you'll all be cut off.

They won't let you move on until you admit it, even if you really don't see that you did that thing. And you can't just admit that you did it. You have to show that you feel really bad about it, using the steps of repentance, but in a twisted way. It's confusing because the principles they are teaching are true and good, and yet something feels off. It wasn't until I got disentangled from it that I realized that it feels off, because you can't learn from them unless you're willing to compromise your integrity and just comply."

The third reason was using God to push their point, saying if you disagree with them, you are disagreeing with God. The fourth reason is an environment that breeds codependency.

Their method is quite effective for helping those with addictions come off of their addiction. It's absolutely amazing. If I had an addiction, I might actually sign up again. Unfortunately, it appears they are trading one dependency for another. Jodi has people working for her that don't get paid. They seem just to be happy that she trusts them with the responsibility. I asked her in conversation how many people she had working for her that she paid, and she evaded the question.

She also teaches against individuality. It's set up for you to remain in it. One lady in my group said it was her last week in the group and then thanked everyone for helping her learn. But then, many women ganged up on her and shamed her for leaving, so she stayed. Those who learn from her in groups and individually spend about $10,000 per year to connections, and they have done this for years, scared to quit due to their own dependency. It is unacceptable to work on changing what you want to change in your life.

I started the group with three specific areas of my life that seemed unmanageable to me that I wanted to change. They said I was in distortion if I wanted to focus on those. They require hours of indoctrinating in their methods each day, and you have to track it as well. If you spend less time because, for instance, you're sick or on vacation or it's Christmas, they shame you for it and aggressively say that you've dropped responsibility. The fifth reason being that they talk bad about you behind your back.

They said,

And the last reason being that connections promotes cutting people out of your life.

Praise isn't given in the group for learning a new concept. It's given when you set unhealthy distancing boundaries with your loved ones. She advocates for leaving spouses at the drop of a hat instead of working together when there is a problem. The principle of being responsible for your own stuff is true, but that's not what this is. This is fault-finding, and then using that as evidence to push people away.

As far as I know, Jodi herself is estranged from everyone in her family and has very few friends. It teaches in Richest Man in Babylon that you couldn't learn how to be rich from those who aren't rich. Likewise, it doesn't make sense to learn how to connect with people from someone who isn't able to connect herself. Now all of this...

Not only, of course, obviously, Scream's cult leader tactics, but the cult that it reminded me of almost immediately, and tell me if you were drawing this conclusion as I was reading those examples to you, but it totally felt parallel to me with NXIVM.

If you're not familiar with NXIVM, don't you worry. That's probably going to be coming in October as a deep dive. But Keith Raniere, who is like, in my opinion, just the ultimate creep of all creeps, he was the cult leader of NXIVM, which essentially has been dubbed in pop culture as the sex cult. It had the famous actress from Smallville, Allison Mack, and a bunch of others. But one of the tactics and one of the most interesting things about this cult is

was that the principles it was providing and the teachings that it was providing were actually rooted in truth and rooted in good and things that helped these people. So while they were in this cult for so long, they started seeing certain aspects of their life get better, which further embedded them into the teachings, thinking that this person truly was, you know, a higher being or a higher level or had all of this like insane immense knowledge and they just would hang on his every word.

hook, line, sinker until it got so crazy that people were branding themselves, having sex with him, having sex with each other. Weird, weird stuff. But

I bring up the parallel with NXIVM because not only were the principals apparently rooted in good and truly did help people, but Keith Ranieri's co-conspirator and person right alongside him, which I'm drawing a blank on her name at the moment, she and her daughter were also involved heavily in the leadership of NXIVM, and they...

In my opinion, based on the documentaries and the research that I've done, I think they were in fact brainwashed by Keith himself. I don't think they were trying to run this cult for power, for money like he was, but

Although equally like hand in hand with him, they were responsible for a lot of this. I think that they saw the good that was coming in their own lives. They felt that they were doing good, providing good to these people because they were having these positive experiences to where then they became more credible in the organization. Their words became more credible in the cult.

not realizing that they were just a pawn in Keith's master plan. And they became an authoritative figure in it and a leadership figure in it, not even realizing until he went on trial and all of this stuff was made public and people's testimony was brought. That's the only point in time in which they realized, holy shit,

something's wrong here. I can't believe I was responsible and participated in this. And it feels very much in line with everything we just heard and what we know about connections and Jodi Hildebrandt as well.

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So was Ruby the sidekick to Jodi as Keith Ranieri and his sidekick, which again, her name, I'm sorry, I apologize. I'm drawing a blank on it. Nancy Salzman. That is the name I was looking for. So is Ruby Frankie the Nancy Salzman to Jodi Hildebrandt's Keith Ranieri? Or is she truly complicit? And is it the Keith Ranieri 1.0, Keith Ranieri 2.0, and they're both on the same level and have the same ideologies? I don't know. It feels very, very odd to me.

And it also gets worse. Jodi's niece, Jessie, also said, and I quote,

So he always believed that the second coming was going to happen in his lifetime. But she used that language also to fuel her belief that the second coming is close. She felt like she was going to be one of the people who welcomes God back or ushers in the second coming of Jesus. Again, these are not theoretical. These are not hypothetical. She believed these in a very literal sense. She believed these in literal, actual, this is all very literal to her.

that God literally was going to come and thank her for all of her hard work and all of the good that she has done because she's fighting tooth and nail on the front lines of Satan.

And how do you argue with that? So hearing that about the second coming and ushering the people in, hey, what does that sound like? Good old Chad Dumbbell, right? Peter Griffin, right? So that's kind of a scary thought in itself to think about, which, sorry, I know I'm kind of going off here on a tangent, but you have Keith Raniere, who is a cult leader who turns into a sex cult. He's evil. He's disgusting, right?

parallel to him, right across the road, you have Chad Daybell, who has a religious cult, who talks about zombies, evil dark spirits, all of these things. You put those two together, and it's like an asteroid hits, and it's Jodie Hildebrandt, who...

believes in hurting children who believes in the second coming who believes that she is god's greatest asset to save marriages and families it is like the most toxic disaster of all time it's like these two cult leaders walked so that jody could come in here and run

And let me just say, we very rarely hear about a woman cult leader. So I'm very curious to know what type of power and control she truly has over these people. She must really be selling herself and laying it on thick. Now, if all of this is true, what does this mean in regards to Ruby's children? We have heard that they were severely malnourished. One of our sources gave us some inside information on the extent of the injuries.

I think you can say that. So we learned that, and we haven't confirmed this, but we've heard from sources very close to this situation that some of the injuries to RF, I won't say the name, but some of the injuries to RF was the 10-year-old, I mean, I'm sorry, the 12-year-old who escaped, that we heard that some of the injuries were bone deep injuries.

that the restraints and the duct tape had cut to the bone. That's serious. That's serious child abuse. That is not the sort of thing that typically I would expect someone to be released on probation for. The neighbors have commented, and I'm glad that those kids got help, and they weren't leaving in body bags. Lauren touched on this in one of her episodes and summarized it perfectly.

I want to touch on this and then we'll read the next comment. The similarities to Lori Daybell and Chad Daybell are eerie. This will happen again, given the right or wrong set of circumstances. Nothing seems to have changed in the false in the to protect the vulnerable. And I just want to reiterate one more thing again. I'm I'm digging deep.

And we've covered Daybell for three, four years. I have dug deep into everyone involved. Three and a half years, I guess. It's coming on four years. It's crazy. It's wild. I want to reiterate again. I've talked a lot when it comes to Daybell case. We've talked a lot about the book Visions of Glory and how that affected Chad Daybell and Lori Bellows' beliefs. The preparing of people conferences that gave Chad a platform. Tom Harris and Spencer in the Visions of Glory book. And

And one thing that really concerns me is how they teach visions and dreams. And, and I'm, I'm, I'm getting very, very concerned about this group because Jody Hildebrandt, that, that video we were playing last week, she was speaking at the eternal core conference, which is done by Tom Harrison. The, the one who had the near death experiences and visions of glory that many of these people consider scripture. I mean, it's all too,

intertwined. It is so similar. And these are people that are, they're mingling together. So I can't help, but now see a pattern. It's one thing to have, you know, the daybell case was a never, you know, like what in the world, now that we're seeing two cases of abuse of children, I mean, it was more than abuse with JJ and Tylee, but it could have been more with, with R and E too, but I'm getting very, very concerned. Once you start to see a pattern,

There's a serious problem and agree. So we're keeping an eye on this. This case is, I don't want to see this again. It makes you wonder, how far does this go? How many people believe in these same things? The parallels with the Visions of Glory book and all of this are just so interconnected in truly the most disturbing way. In the beginning of this episode, I mentioned that there is a bigger problem that needs more awareness and this is it.

Whatever is happening in these groups or their beliefs, their demonization in children is extremely dangerous, disturbing, and truly unfathomable. Ruby and Jodi are still in custody. Ruby's last court appearance was pushed back after her lawyer asked for a continuance to have more time, saying they had copious amounts of evidence to go through.

As this case continues to develop and more information comes out, I will definitely keep you guys posted. There is so much more to this too, I just didn't want to be on here for six hours with you guys. So if you liked this video or felt like it was informative, please comment and let me know if you guys would like to see more of it because it goes way deeper. I could be on here for hours, hours, hours talking to you about the depths of connections and cults alike.

And with that spoiler alert, I'm just gonna say it now, but an official announcement is coming soon. I am doing Cult October, where we are going to do a deep dive on a new cult every single week. That's not gonna be over here on the podcast though. That's gonna be over on my YouTube channel, 10 to Life. So make sure you're subscribed over there so that you don't miss those. You can also listen to it as an audio, just like a podcast if you're driving, but that's where those are gonna live. And again, an official announcement will come soon that gives you guys the dates, all of that stuff so you don't miss them.

but we're going in. We are going in on FLDS. We are going in on Scientology. We are going in on Sarah Lawrence. We are going in on so many. All right, guys, thanks again for tuning in to today's episode. If you would please take a quick second, rate this podcast, leave a review with more types of cases you want to hear about, whether it is cults or something else, and let me know what you guys like or dislike about this podcast so I can cater it more to you. And I would really appreciate it, guys. It'll take 30 seconds. Just

quickly rate review over on Apple Podcasts or over on Spotify and again I will be coming back with more deep dives on this case and many more very soon other than that I will see you bright and early this Thursday morning for headline highlights where we are going to go over all of the breaking cases this week that are happening in the true crime world new cases updates and cases all

All of it, we are going to talk about it this Thursday during Headline Highlights. And as a reminder, if you still need extra true crime and you're looking for an even bigger true crime fix, I am posting ad-free bonus episodes every single Friday of new cases. So if you want to sign up for access to that, you can do that either over on Apple Podcasts or through Patreon, which I will link in the show notes below. But it's just for those of you who want a little bit extra bonus.

of a true crime fix you want to add free you want to hear the stories that's for you and if you go over to patreon you can also get access to other things such as our private group chat where we're talking true crime every day private live streams i mean you name it so check that out all right guys thanks so much for tuning in today it is your true crime bestie annie signing off and i hope you have a safe week i will be talking to you again very very soon all right bye guys

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