30: The Circleville Letters | Red Thread 02:07:38

He's the most terrifying serial killer you've never heard of. Haddon Clark has confessed to several murders, but investigators say he could have over 100 victims. At the center of the mayhem, a cellmate of Haddon's that was able to get key evidence into Haddon's murder spree across America,

because hadn't thought he was Jesus Christ. Born Evil, the Serial Killer and the Savior, an ID true crime event. Premieres Monday, September 2nd at 9. Watch on ID or stream on Max. Set your DVR. ♪♪

The letter came innocuously enough, like any other letter before it. A featureless white envelope surrounded it and it took only thoughtless moments to tear it apart to free the contents inside. Expecting the bills or spam your letterbox has become accustomed to, your eyes noticed not the many oddities at first, instead

Instead, it took a moment of inspection. It was a piece of paper with handwritten text on it. You aren't even aware people still wrote things on paper with a pen, but here stood the testament to the age-old ways of ever still dying. It would almost be beautiful if not for the fact that the words stroked across the single piece of paper were filled with equal parts ink and venom.

No, not venom of that belonging to a snake, spider, or some other dastardly creature of ill renown. Instead, it was the venom of spite and hate. The venom of a man scorned. Words filled with vitriol, loathing, insanity. Sentences filled with threats and danger. The promise of a future where pain would be the thing promised. You put the letter down, immediately terrified, deep down into the pit of your very being. You've never known such direct hatred.

and you feel so very unsafe and victimized. You know not of who wrote the letter. You feel as if you only understand one thing: their intent. They seem to not like you very much and wish to do you some level of harm and that understanding terrifies you. The letters don't stop there. They continue to arrive over the next few weeks continuously until you cannot take it one day further.

Suddenly, in your sleep-deprived, anxiety-ridden state, you find a beacon of hope born from an admittedly simple idea: an escape. It's simple, you think. You can escape the letters by moving, by being someone else, by taking the shape of another. The letter writer won't know. They'll be clueless to the fact it's the only solution. You start immediately. It's no easy process to shift one identity.

There are superficial elements that are easier to accomplish. You cut your hair, trim your beard, start wearing different clothes. But then there are the harder elements. None more so than you altering your accent to exude a more Texan flair. And even going so far as to changing your profession to that of a humble confectioner. Overall, it does appear to be a successful conversion that all are none the wiser to. Until now, that is. For you were Charlie, but now you're OompaVille and this is the Red Thread. Ha ha ha!

What was that? The transformation is complete. That's crazy. What was going on? Look, there he is. He's in the Discord call. I look different. I feel different. What's going on? How's it going? It's going pretty good, man. This is crazy. Last week, and now we're at this week, and now I'm here.

Yeah. Crazy how that works. Last week you were Charlie. Yeah. You received the letters and stuff and went into witness protection. Yeah, it was scary. And then you come out the other side. I got a call from my fed buddy from his yacht. He said he was going to fly me in a helicopter and deliver an offer for something. And then I ended up here. I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know what you're talking about. I did call him from a cruise ship. That actually happened. That did happen. Yeah, that did happen.

Yeah, we move fast on the red thread. So we'll go ahead, you know, just to get ahead of the rumors, we'll go ahead and I'll say yes, you know, the stuff you've heard online, the rumors are true. OompaVille did eat Charlie. So by Roman law, by custom, he now takes his place on the show. He has usurped the throne. Yeah, that's how that works. The line of succession.

Yeah, it's, you know, he who is, you know, rule by might, whole thing, you know, we firmly believe in that here, so we're happy to have him on board. Yeah, we operate under the rule of, the law of, like, the land, basically. Like, the mightiest take the throne. So, if anyone can best OompaVille in combat, you're more than welcome to join the show. My address is public. Yeah, his address is public, the rules are no knives, it has to be at dusk.

It has to be hand-to-hand, and you have to win by death. There's no mercy rule, chokehold, anything like that. Have fun with that. Deal. Good luck. But no, realistically, so Charlie stepped away from the show, as a lot of us know. I believe the last message he sent to us and Jackson was...

Have fun, losers. Good luck. L plus ratio plus you fell off, whatever. No, no. So Charlie, just looking to spend some time doing some more IRL stuff, wanting to step away from spending literally all of his time on the internet, which I completely understand. Yeah, completely understand. All relationships are still good. He's still a great friend. Love the guy to death. No bad blood. No bad blood at all. We absolutely love the guy. At least publicly. At least publicly, yeah. Okay.

But anyway, so Jackson and I, we both immediately decided, we're like, okay, totally understandable, but we don't want to quit the show. And Charlie also said, you know, he wants us to keep the show going. Yeah. But Jackson and I also decided that the way these episodes are normally formatted is Jackson has put together the document and done the research. So him just kind of like explaining it to just me, I feel, well, we felt would it work as well. So we're like, well, we need to bring on a third host. So I...

I came up with the idea that, you know, it needs to be someone, you know, sort of from my neck of the woods who's into all these crazy government conspiracy theories who we can yell, cut up and have a good time with. And since Alex Jones was busy, I reached out to Mike. The second best. The second best that there is to offer. My buddy OompaVille. Absolutely. I'm very grateful, by the way. This is awesome. I love this podcast.

Yeah, I actually called him and was like, and it is no joke. I was on a cruise for a bachelor trip with this. Okay, I need to. Well, we have to find another co-host. So I didn't think the first option would take. I figured he'd be too busy or something. So I'm like, well, we need to start trying to find someone. And I was on the phone with him and he was like, this is crazy. You're on a boat, whatever. And I was kind of explaining the situation. And I think I said,

So there's now only two of us and Caleb goes, "I'm in." - How quickly did you know it was going that direction? Like, did you know immediately? - Almost instantly.

As soon as he started to say, I know you're really busy, and I was like, oh, come on, bro. I'm ready for whatever you got to say. I've been training for this. You could have said something crazy, and I would have immediately signed up for it without even hearing what it was. That's why I felt bad, because I'm like, okay, the options are he either can't do it or he'll do whatever I say. We found out which path he took before his loyalty lies.

So I think you all will enjoy it. And all jokes aside, Caleb's a great friend of mine. He's a great dude. He's a lot of fun, makes great content. There's no one else I'd rather have on the channel along with myself and Jackson. Absolutely. And you also love the subject matter, too. You love this kind of stuff. Oh, yeah, dude. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he actually listened to the show. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm aware. I'm aware of the way that it goes. In fact, I'm actually coming live from a show...

The Creepcast set. The episode before last, the Creepcast set. I'm actually coming live from the set of that. That's true. Yeah, that's right. That's right, because I recorded the last episode of Creepcast at his place. Oh my god, it's all connected. It's all connected. I'm into the interest. I'm into the otherworldly shit. And also the real life shit like this, specifically. Like investigations and mysteries and conspiracies and stuff like that. What you two don't know

Is that you're actually just part of like this giant multi-level Wendigoon marketing scheme I have going on. So thank you all for being a part of my, my, you know, bit all myself. It's kind of like the Wendigoon extended universe almost. Like you've got this whole thing going on at the moment. It's really cool to see. The weird. I really like it.

The Wii U. All the failed Nintendo console. We don't want to conjure images of that. Look, all I've done so far, I've taken out Charlie Jackson's next. Everything's going according to plan. Who's going to be the third once we get rid of Jackson? Someone else who will do what I say. The list is endless.

There were so many people capable of saying yes to everything that you want. By the end, all the podcasts are just like Wendigoon Project number five, Wendigoon Project number seven. You're like a virus that spreads across the internet. I'm a memetic hazard. Anyway, today's topic, Circleville. Jackson, give us a little spiel. Other than the intro where Charlie miraculously transformed into Caleb. I should mention, by the way. Was that true?

It was true. Yeah, that's what happened. It's true. It happened in the 70s. Look it up.

I didn't tell you two I did this. I'm wearing a white t-shirt right now because I wasn't ready for someone to not be wearing a white t-shirt. We always need a white t-shirt. So I'm here in memory. I'll go back to Hawaii afterwards. But I need you to be aware of that before you look at the recording and you're like, damn it. What if we were all wearing white t-shirts? Would that be weird? That would probably be weird. That would be mocking. If one person does it, it's tasteful.

True. If everyone doesn't. Yeah. And we own them all. Yeah. Jackson, give us an introduction. Circleville. Circleville, baby. So this is a story...

I kind of laid the groundwork. I was kind of impressed by my own handiwork at the beginning there with that intro story. Because not only did it weave the jokes about Charlie in there and introducing Umperville, but it also was pretty accurate to what Circaville is all about. So basically, Circaville, Ohio is a town like any other. It appears the same as any Midwest town you might pass through on your way to more exciting places.

I have no clue if Ohio is in the Midwest. I just hear the word Midwest used a lot. Is it? Is it Midwest or is it the other side? The beginning. It's like on the barrier. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Is the entire middle of the country just Midwest? I don't understand where that starts and ends. The reason it's called the Midwest is because east of it is all your major East Coast stuff, New York, the Carolinas, stuff like that. And then when you hit the middle of the country, that's where you get to farmland, a lot of open land, stuff like that. And I know Ohio is known for farmland. Yeah, yeah. I know that much. Ohio culturally is definitely Midwest, but I mean, you can debate placement-wise, yeah.

Yep, gotcha. All right, so however, it's here in Circleville that an unsettling true crime mystery has been unraveling over several decades, filling the community, like the community in Circleville, with a deep sense of suspicion for one another.

it turned them all against each other beginning in the late 1970s the 14 000 residents of the town began to receive a series of anonymous threatening letters filled with personal secrets and accusations from a mysterious individual the events that would come to fruition beyond that would include an attempted murder a suspicious death and a conviction that many still believe to be unjust to this very day so it's time to give the red thread treatment and uh to do that we need to

We need to start with a school principal named Gordon Massey who had a penchant for bus drivers. Do you guys actually... Look at that. Look how nice that was. I know nothing about Circleville, but now I'm like this. Oh, I was going to ask. I was going to ask. Do you guys know anything about Circleville? Because it was highly recommended by the audience and I knew nothing about it. I've heard about it. Never heard of it.

I've heard of it before. I've heard of it. I feel like there it could be another. I think I might be conflating that episode of BuzzFeed Unsolved where there's the house that someone moved into and they got a bunch of threatening letters and messages in the house. The Watcher, that one. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, I think I'm just conflating that. So, yeah, I don't think that I know anything. I will say from what I know so far, I think this would be kind of fun to do in my local town.

Like send a bunch of threatening letters. Yeah, just start some shit like this. How long it takes for the paranoia to set in. That would be awesome. Just make some noise. Get people really upset. All it was.

The reason why this was so effective though is that it wasn't just like I'm just imagining Caleb just sending like really angry letters to everyone For no reason, nothing in particular Yeah It was less that and more so like here are your deepest darkest secrets So don't, yeah, like I know about this kind of shit I like the idea of Caleb like he doesn't have enough going on He's like let's just stir the pot a bit Let's get something going Yeah, let's just see what happens A lot to learn from this guy

can't you just go play like football in the backyard or something caleb no i gotta write these letters i gotta make sure the community knows it needs to be concluded and it needs to it needs to have the potential to go viral as well i'm a youtuber

like if I'm not profiting off of my yeah yeah male harassment campaign what's the yeah making my own stories to cover oh yeah you're helping the red thread I see so we can do a new look at him he's already thinking ahead he's already a foreman on this operation I'm ready dude I'm on all fours galloping already

All right, I'll take Gordon Massey. I'll take this. Go for it. Let's learn about Gordon Massey. Let's learn about Gordon Massey. So, it was a regular day when Gordon Massey went to work at Westfall High on the 3rd of March, 1977. He was the school superintendent. You can never have expected what was waiting for him at his office that very day. A letter written in strange, bulky capital letters. The letter reads as follows. Ahem. Ahem.

Get your Gordon Massey voice on. Well, no, this is a letter written to him, right? Oh, fuck, yeah. Well, I'm imagining in my head like he's reading it out loud as he's holding it. We're trying to make a good impression for Caleb here. Act like we know what we're doing. Good lord. I don't know. Get it together. This is the kind of attitude that will get you kicked off of Wendigoon Project number six. The Wii U. The Wii U. I'm going to pull this together, yeah. My bad.

I got a family to feed. There you go. Yeah. Why don't you act like it? All right. Read the quote. Dear sir, according to my girlfriend, you have asked her to go out many times and have asked the other female bus drivers to do to your position and their jobs with you. You should not do this. This must stop at once for the good of the school and families. If they are not stopped, I will be forced to write to the school board and I'd hate to do that.

To prey on another man's girl is untouchable, especially when they're out trying to make a living. There's also talk of you dating a married woman and taking advantage of them. Do you need time and names again? Please think. I suggest you find yourself a pimple-faced whore and start up with her and leave my girls alone. That took a direction right there. That last line's kind of strong, but all right. Pimple-faced whore. Sounds like Ohio.

It does sound like Ohio. That's true. So my gut feeling based off this initial thing is that this Gordon Massey dude hit on this guy, the letter writer's girlfriend, who was a bus driver, and he just did not take that well. That's my gut feeling. And also, that's assuming the letter writer's being earnest, right? Yeah. True, yeah. And he's not just like...

Losing his mind. There was this one guy that Kayla was telling me about. This was, I think when she was in high school, there's this guy that would go around town showing pictures of a girl and be like, oh, this is my girlfriend. This is my girlfriend. Oh, yeah. I see what you mean. That's insane. It was just some girl from town who's just a pretty girl locally. Parasocial. Yeah, and he's like, that's my girlfriend. Just a normal person. Yeah, that's weird. So assuming this...

Every high school had one of those because we had one of those as well. There was like a dude that would just fixate on women and just stalk and harass them basically and pretend like they were his girlfriend. I feel like it's shockingly common, which is, yeah. I mean, this could be a situation like that where it's not even his girl. He just is claiming ownership of her and his own delusions. And that's why he's...

I mean, it does track because someone like that would be insane enough to then create a... Write the letters, yeah. Yeah, to write the letters to everyone in Circleville, right? So it would make sense. Caleb, I didn't mean to cut you off. You have to learn to, like, punch people on the show to just, like... No, no, no, you're good. Go ahead. I want to say as well, it says girls at the end and it refers to his girlfriend in singular and then plural, girls then. So this guy's got a harem of women that he's... Wait, you're right. I didn't...

So look at this guy. Look at him coming out with the facts. I'm so made for red thread. He's made for red thread. Another thing is, if you if you know that guy at the school, the guy you guys were both talking about, if you know that guy, if you don't know that guy, you are that guy. Right. And I don't know that guy. I didn't have one of those in my school. Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I got you.

Yeah, now it makes sense why you were bringing up writing letters to your community. I might be the villain in this podcast from now on. I might be able to relate to the stories heavily. What do they call it in wrestling? You're the heel, right? Yeah. I don't know American terminology, man. The heavy. The heavy is what they call them in old TV shows and stuff, yeah.

He comes on to play the heavy. Is he the one that obsesses over bus drivers? Caleb comes on and he hears us talking about writing the letters and he's like, yeah, that's his girl. What's wrong? Don't fuck with her. This makes sense so far. Why are you relating so hard to the guy writing the letters? Hold on, let's hear this guy out. Let's calm down. Yeah, he's making some solid points. What's the issue? His handwriting, it's great. Okay.

So this letter was certainly direct, alleging the Gordon of cheating on his wife and threatening to report him to the school board if he doesn't stop talking and flirting with the female bus drivers, of which there was apparently a large market of. Questions immediately began to swirl. Who was this mysterious letter written?

Gordon apparently failed to adhere to the warning and another letter was sent, stamped from Columbus around 40ish minutes away from Circleville. This time to the school board of education. Oh no, they went straight to the president. They went straight to the top. Caleb, since you relate so much to our protagonist, would you like to take this letter? Yeah, yeah, let's go. This guy doesn't have a voice, does he?

Whatever you want to give him. Where is he from? Ohio? How do people sound from Ohio? I'm from pretty close there. Well, I'm kind of stereotyped against Ohio people because I'm from Kentucky and Tennessee. So in my head, they're like, oh, Ohio. Oh, yeah. I'm from the Midwest. That sounded Canadian to me. Dear school board, this is too... I can't do that the whole time.

That would get sold. You gave him like a Yukon like you went way too far. Dear school board, this is to inform you that you have several dissatisfied female drivers.

Due to their working relations with their boss, he dates a lot of the drivers. One, because she's afraid. Okay, so this guy is clearly not good at writing, for one, to start off with. This is really bad. I mean, look at the picture of the letter. Do you see how he writes? Oh, dude, that looks like my handwriting, legitimately. I'm not even joking. Are you sure you're not this guy? You know, Isaiah, remember when you wrote on your notebook and I complimented your great handwriting?

Yeah, and it's just like normal handwriting. It's just like casual writing. Yeah. So anyways, where was I? He constantly asks several of them over and over. No one ever stops him. He will not take no for an answer from a couple of them. It even bothers some that he has not asked. That's interesting. Oh, no. Yeah, so some bus drivers are feeling scorned as well. Yeah, they want to be included.

He's not, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's not including them. That's mean. He's mean in all directions. They would like the chance to tell him where to go. Under these circumstances, they cannot be treated equally. He picks on the weaker ones constantly. This is a terrible working condition and must be stopped for the sake of the schools and the families involved. Again, you should investigate. Interesting. This is... It's a plea for help at this point, it sounds like. Yeah, it's desperate.

Yeah, and the sentences are short and they're nonsensical. It just doesn't seem like a human being, it seems like a robot. Yeah, you say that he's clearly not a good writer, but I did go through the letters and there were very few spelling errors. So maybe it's intentionally poorly written so it can't be tracked down. Yeah, I don't know. He had grammarly.

Before long, we'll start repeating the rounds all over again, causing on some more hardships in others. A low morale problem. Some have even considered a bargaining unit for job protection.

Interesting. He's a nice guy. What does that mean? I'm trying to piece this together in my brain. I think he's... He does sound like a robot. Yeah, I think he's saying that the women are so upset that they're worried that...

he's going to fire them if they reject his advances or something like that. They're basically unionizing is what he's saying. Yeah, I was going to say, are the bus drivers unionizing to protect their jobs against Gordon Massey? Well, according to this dude, which again, the validity of him, I think is in question, but according to him, yes. Okay. He's a nice guy on the outside, but please talk to your drivers independently for the full facts of how he is to work for. Got to cross-reference witnesses.

Please talk to them and treat the problem. Some are nervous and shouldn't be driving under additional pressure as this. After me writing this letter, I sure hope he does not upset my girl for his sake. I kill him. He's a bad guy. So he's going back to individual girl though. He's talking about one specific girl at this point.

That letter, that last line gives me raps of like, you know, like, hey, buddy, say what you want about me. But if you talk about my friends, you know, like the like the guys like the I'll see red. Yeah. I just get a fight. I can't control myself. You know, you want to come at me. Yeah.

It genuinely could be like the bad, like the stereotypical badass boyfriend trying to protect these girls, I guess, because he goes on about shouldn't be driving under additional pressure as this. But if he's such a badass, why doesn't he just like go confront Gordon Massey in person on his own? I never could have joined the military. I would have punched the drill sergeant in the face.

got up in my face like that. I'm too angry. I'm too angry. I'm too strong. I'm full of testosterone. They wouldn't let me in because they said I was on natural steroids. Yeah.

Also, this guy, this whole letter just exudes incel rage. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. I love it. Were incels popular in the 1970s? They existed, I'm sure. Okay, Jackson. But they didn't have forums. Hold on, hold on. Let's take a moment to appreciate what you just said. That's amazing. So...

uh celibacy also known as not hitting it quote unquote has existed since ever i would argue so yes in the 1970s we got involuntary though

You know what, you're right. Before internet access, there was never someone who tried to get laid who didn't. You're right. Okay, incel, the terminology existed, but you know what I mean? Like incels in the modern sense, these people that are like really fall down that rabbit hole.

Jackson, you are so lucky that Caleb's here right now and we're introducing a new person to the show. Otherwise, I would lay into you like the chicken thing. The exact same way. That's what we need more of. I threw a damn wrench in this thing, bud. Incels. Sorry for mentioning it. Let's just move on. No, no, that's good. We need to bully Jackson at every available opportunity. It's how I learn. It's how he learns.

It's how we learn. I don't have that American education. Caleb, I have a question. All right. KFC, the fried chicken establishment. Oh, Christ, not this again. What year? Just guess what year you think KFC started. Just take a wild guess. Yeah. Yes, it may shock you. Would your answer be, I don't know, the 1800s? I mean, yeah, based on Colonel Sanders.

There we go. See? No, no, no. Hold on, hold on, hold on. No, no, no. I would say the 70s. Okay. That's better. Thank you. Thank you.

It was the light fit in his buttons. Why would someone from the 70s be called the Colonel? It doesn't make sense. It's marketing, but also it's like fast food started in the 50s, 60s, 70s. I just figured KFC would be... You're using the same arguments Isaiah used. Yes, because it's called logic. It's called logic, and that's why I was right. Jackson got on... This was the last episode or two episodes ago. I can't even remember. It was the last episode. Yeah, I'm so mad about it. Jackson...

said that KFC probably started around like 1900, 1910. And then guess that Colonel Sanders died in like 95, meaning he started KFC when he was five years old. He was a prodigy in the kitchen. Of course he was. He had to be. Okay, Caleb, first thing you have to learn for the show, you've got to bully Jackson. It really is the only way I learned. It really is.

Yeah, I mean, because even at the turn of the century into the 1900s, the first chain restaurants were, I think, Chinese food. Oh, Christ. Why are we talking about this? I think they were. Three weeks later. That's for KFC, dude. That's for KFC. Because it's insane. Because it's insane. I'm hungry. Because it's insane that you did that. Yeah, I had KFC yesterday. I had KFC yesterday and I tasted bitterness in my mouth. All I could think about was that argument. You only tasted tannins and spices.

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And back in. No more KFC. I'm ruling KFC out from the podcast from now on. We'll go on to the next one. After that letter to the school board, the same day, another letter arrived to the board again, stamped from Columbus. It would read as follows. Kayla, would you like to continue your role? Yeah, let's do it. I'll do an insult. I'll read the first two letters and you guys let me know if I should keep going. Dear Superintendent,

Perfect. Perfect. Okay. Pixar villain. This is to inform you of several of your bus drivers are working under pressure due to their boss constantly putting moves on them. Some like it. The decent ones don't. It's he getting paid to run the women or run the bus lines.

Again, some move behind him because they need attention and are weak. Should this position be filled by someone capable of taking advantage of his job, school, and people that work for him? Is this the type of family man that we need in a position such as this?

capable of using working women because of his advantages? One woman dates him because of her job. This is a terrible working relations. That's not grammatically correct. And something must be done about it. Most of the drivers know what is going on constantly. You should talk to them and also him before something drastic happens. And I bring a gun.

That was pretty good. I liked that. I liked the Arnold Schwarzenegger that started to creep in at the end. Arnold Schwarzenegger, the apex incel. Literally, yeah. So, yeah, another letter basically saying that this guy's taking advantage. Same thing as the previous one, really. Same thing, really.

Assuming the letters were from a jealous boyfriend, the board elected to not respond to the letter or fire Gordon Massey. To the dismay of the letter writer. I couldn't imagine that happening in the current era. Like receiving a bunch of letters being like, hey, your school superintendent or whatever is hitting on literally every female employee of his. And then the board is like, yeah, whatever.

What can you do? Boys will be boys. You can't sexually harass bus drivers anymore because of woke. The woke mind virus.

I think it might have been different too if the women were coming forward saying it was happening. But it seems like at this time it's literally just the letters. There's no other evidence happening. It's hard to really act on that, I guess. Not backing down, another letter was sent to the school's vice principal detailing the affairs and flirting happening with Gordon and within the bus driving community.

Particularly singling out someone in particular. Driver number 62917. A woman named Mary Gelipsy. So, Caleb. Gelipsy. Interesting. I've never seen him. Interesting. Okay. I'm blown away. Also, she looks like...

She kind of looks like the mask in that photo. Mary Gillespie, a little bit. It's a terrifying photo. It's terrifying. I think it's the lack of color or something. I'm not sure. She's cute. She's beautiful. She's beautiful. It's just the lighting's bad. It's the expression. Yeah. Okay. Sure. I was going to say the expression's kind of creepy. I think this is her, by the way, doing this. I think this is all her.

Um, yeah, this is an actual theory. Not to get ahead of ourselves, but it is an actual theory. Is it really? Yeah, yeah. You may have just cracked the case. Good job. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Three seconds in, Caleb's like, it's her, it's done, case closed, solved. What's it called? Immediately the first, immediately the first woman he sees, it was her. Witch!

All right, am I good to go to the next one? I'm not sure if I lost you guys or something. No, no, no, no, you're good. You can go to the monitor.

Sent to Westfall High School. Attention, Vice Principal. Dear school, talk to Gordon Massey about his affairs. I shall warn you. I know the truth. I want to protect your school. It has a good reputation. You should keep it like that. I shall send you proof about driver number 62917. She has a child in school there now. I shall prove this shortly. I expect him then to be discharged. You'll see that I am telling the truth.

interesting this bitch is freaking me out is he's is he saying that he's gonna prove she has a child i think the proof is of the affair okay all right i would assume because that was worded improperly i'll send you actually maybe she has a child in there now i shall prove this shortly

And also it's a letter. What do you mean prove this shortly? Like I'm gonna sit around waiting for you to prove it? You sent me a letter. Like this isn't a conversation. How am I meant to know what the proof is? Well, there were more letters, so I guess we'll find out. I also like how he titles her Driver 62917. Like she's some like human experiment or something. Yeah, it's an SCP entity. Yeah.

You could tell this was written by an Australian because he said letterboxd.

Is that not a thing? Well, we call them mailboxes. No way. Yes, we call them mailboxes like normal humans. You and your Australianisms in here, you say rubbish, you say... Let a box. Let a box. Whatever.

That's all I say. That's all I hear when you talk. It was addressed to her. It was unsigned and had no return address, but was marked as from Columbus, as were the previous letters. Caleb, you can continue your roll. Okay. So this letter here, this is great handwriting. It is. It is good handwriting. It's a little too uniformed, actually. Yeah.

Yeah, it looks like it took a lot of effort to hide, I would assume, the actual handwriting practices or whatever behind it. But on the front of the letters, that's messy, like the actual return address and all that kind of stuff on the envelopes. That's messy, but the letters themselves are very neat and orderly. Mrs. Gillespie, stay away from Massey. Don't lie when questioned about meeting him.

I know where you live. I've been observing your house and know you have children. This is no joke. Please take it serious. Everyone concerned has been notified and everything will be over soon. Well, that would call me right now. Thank God it'll be over soon. Yeah.

Why didn't you just say that? It's terrifying. If this anonymous letter writers had these bus drivers in his best interest, in their best interest, why the fuck would he then threaten one of the bus drivers in the process?

Again, I think whoever's doing this is just kind of mentally ill. I would be surprised if Massey had any actual relations with bus drivers or anything. I know. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the principal was actually having affairs. And in fact, you'll find out eventually. But yeah, he was having affairs. It's the 70s, man. Peace and love, right? Yeah. And look at him. Look at him. That guy absolutely gets bus drivers.

I think the 60s was actually a peace and love one. I mean, the 60s was like Vietnam and stuff like that. So that's when the counterculture started. But then 70s, it was like mainstream. Is that a compliment or a downside that he gets bus drivers?

Well, during the time, bus drivers were very prestigious. Mary Gillespie's pretty cute, I guess. She's beautiful, yeah. Yeah, I would assume it was like, yeah, people like Mary Gillespie. Yeah. So, yeah, probably good to get bus drivers. Bunch of baddies out there in Oakville.

or wherever this is. Circleville. I said Oakville. What the fuck? Your heart was in the right place, I guess. Oakville catching strays. Less than an hour into the show, we're all like, yeah, she bad. She cool. She beautiful. I feel bad about saying she looked like the mask earlier. I feel like I don't see that now. What changed the context? I don't know. Some more synapses fired off in my brain.

He's falling for the illusion is what's happening. Her feminine charm is taking over. At first, he was like a prey animal. He saw the predator for what it was. He was afraid, reacted, but now he's lulled into a sense of security. I know what it was. He was still in the mindset of the incel character that he was playing. You're right. Now that he's out of it, he can see her. It's like women are like the aliens and they live. Have you guys seen that movie? John Carpenter?

Yeah. Yeah. And like, it's just sometimes, you know, it takes a, you're, you're the male gaze stops or whatever. And then the, the feminine charm wears off and then you see a demon instead of sunglasses. I need to watch that movie again. I love that movie. It's a great movie. I love it.

I feel like you did that the wrong way around though. First you saw her as a scary monster, but then you saw her as beautiful. Exactly. I'm telling you, it was his natural instinct. Caleb has a partner. He's monogamous, so his brain was like, danger, danger, danger, and then it called me down. It's like, who's that dumb, ugly bitch?

I feel bad now. I feel bad. You should apologize. You should apologize. I'm sorry, Mary. I'm sorry, Mary. I apologize. I'm earnest. Okay.

I'm just a God-feared man trying to watch after his woman, take care of her. I just love my wife. I love her. So after that letter that showed up in Mary's mailbox, which was probably written by Caleb from the evidence we have at this point. Yeah, it sounds like it. Yeah, it's me. The letter was obviously concerning, alluding that whoever had written it was watching Mary and her kids. Warning that this is no joke.

Scared, she ignored it in hopes that it would just go away. And it didn't. Mary managed to keep the fear from her family when another letter showed up two weeks later. Again, addressing the same thing and making the same demands. Okay, so that to me alone confirms that she was legitimately having an affair with the principal. Because why wouldn't she tell anyone? She completely buried it. Buried this threat, basically. Yeah.

she would yeah so absolutely they were having the affair which maybe while i got sent her because the person knew that she would try to cover up the affair interesting 40 chess yeah potentially i think she did it anyways you want me to read this yeah yeah go for it all right caleb's sticking by his guns it's the woman it's her i still think she did it yeah for sure you see that handwriting that's way too good

That's way too good for a man. Man from Ohio. Lady, this is your last chance to report him. I know you are a pig and I will prove it and shame you out of Ohio. Whoa. What an opener. Pimple-faced whore. He's got all the terminology. Yeah, the Ohio colloquialisms.

Huh. A pig sneaks around and meets other women's husbands behind their backs only causes families, homes and marriages to suffer. You are such a pig and I will prove it. I love the colon, the stop. It's like she fucking typed it on a typewriter or they, I guess.

Why doesn't he come to your rescue or has he too much to lose his wife in which pigs loose? Yeah, you're right. Like you take advantage of his $28,500 a year job or his kickbacks. How's your little girl? Will she grow up to be like you?

Man, what a crazy letter. Yeah, that turned a corner. It was kind of like, it was already unhinged to begin with, but this one went off the deep end because obviously he wasn't, the person writing the letters wasn't successful in controlling Mary Gillespie or Mary Gillespie wasn't successful

successful in controlling herself if we're operating under the assumption that Mary was the one writing these letters, I guess. Yeah. And he's immediately like, your daughter's gonna grow up to be like you. That line at the beginning is a funny insult, not to use against a woman, you know, not like in a misogynist tone or whatever, but like on an Xbox live chat to say, you're a pig and I will shame you out of Ohio. That's...

I love that. That sounds like a meme. That sounds like it could be a modern day Gen Z like skibbity toilet type thing. You are a pig. I will shame you out of Ohio. Yeah. Can you even be shamed out of Ohio? I thought it was a shameful place to begin with. Yeah, that'd be difficult. Yeah, Ohio is like, it's pretty unhinged there. But maybe I'm wrong. No, you're not. Anything bad you've heard about Ohio, just believe it.

Stand by it. Yeah. Stand by it. I stand by it. My surface level knowledge of American states. So, again, she ignored it and there is no other path forward. But she wasn't going to be allowed to get out of this situation. Seeking help would mean admitting to her husband that she had been unfaithful and that would bring with it a very uncomfortable conversation. So she continued to ignore the letters, hoping that they were simply a bluff.

Unfortunately for those involved, two weeks later, her husband received his own letter. Caleb. Mr. Gillespie, you're doing a lot for her. No one cares that musk for anyone this day. Make him come to her rescue, but he won't. He's being awful good lately. He knows what he must do, but he won't. Make her admit the truth. Call the school board. His affairs must stop. Everyone will know soon. Think of yourself.

Okay, okay, hold up. He's spelled some pretty large words successfully in the past. He's able to spell much. I feel like I've seen it spelled that way before. Really? Yeah, by illiterates, maybe. Must is another word for beauty mark, but I feel like that's like some old British noble way of spelling it.

Oh, so we're dealing with an aristocrat. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Some old British royalty. What it could also just be, because I could be wrong with that, what it could also just be is where their handwriting is so perfect and precise, they started to misspell it, and they can't, you know, it's with pen, they can't erase, so rather than marking out or whatever, they just add, you know, keep going, yeah. Almost like it's the way you would on a typewriter.

Or it means something and it's part of a cipher. What do you guys think? There's a cipher in there, absolutely. What do you guys think? I think it's a great idea. Nope, no, I'm okay. Caleb's immediately adopting the conspiracy route. I support it, so I take it. What about the colons in there, though? What was that angle? Just every few words, there's a colon in between them. He's using it in place of punctuation. A period.

Mm-hmm. Isn't that like stop writing or whatever? What's that called? When you write instead of... That's when you're dictating to someone. You're like... Or if you're speaking over like radio or telegram, it's like, you know, receive this message, stop, continue to this point, stop. Yeah. Okay. So what would that imply that this guy, this is annotated or whatever? This is someone speaking it to the writer? It could actually be. It's not a terrible idea. Mm-hmm.

I don't know. There's a lot of confusing elements to the way these letters are written and kind of created. I'm not sure if it's like intentional from the writer's perspective to obfuscate like people being able to investigate and find out about them. Maybe, maybe he's just doing weird shit to just throw people off. That's, that's all I've got. That's all I've got about it.

The husband of Mary Galipsi, Ron was a maintenance worker at Anheuser-Busch Brewing Company. A strong part of the local community, Ron was known as a reliable and hardworking guy. He was understandably shocked when he received a letter that informed him that his wife was having an affair. Ron confronted Mary, who came clean that she had been receiving letters in the weeks prior. But both her and Gordon strongly denied having an affair.

Ron chose to believe Mary and Gordon. They instead chose to try. They, well, I mean like, okay. If my wife, if, if,

In what world would she not be having an affair with him when she like hit it all? Like the hiding, it does, does make a difference. I think it is bizarre. Cause if I, if I got a letter in the mail right now, that's like your wife cheated on you. And I went to her and she was like, what? No, I'd believe my wife overran. Yeah. Of course. If she had been hiding weeks of the same letter from me, then I would be like, uh,

Uh, what? Then I'd get suspicious. Yeah, I agree. What about the context of the time? You know, maybe, maybe there, it's a very small town and they like gossip and shit, you know, maybe she just kind of wanted to hide it.

Just so it wouldn't get out necessarily? Perhaps, perhaps. But you'd still tell your husband. That's true. That's true. That's the person you're meant to trust the most. Yeah, otherwise I'd agree. But maybe Ron's a leaky faucet. Maybe he just talks and yaps and gossips. Yeah, she knows he's a blabbermouth. You'd be telling everyone over at Anheuser-Busch. Exactly. Yeah. You know? I think she did it. Potential. Laughter

Elaine is she innocent or isn't she I can't do this anymore okay the husband a very good way I just read all that you see look how much you got me so wait where did I read to look at what look what you've done I can't I think yeah yeah yeah Ron chose to believe Mary Gordon they instead chose to try to ignore the letters again at first it seemed like this tactic worked

It didn't last long, though, as two weeks later, another letter would arrive. It seemingly wasn't going to just go away. The return address wasn't Mark Columbus's time, but 550 Ridgewood in Circleville, Gordon Massey's address. The letter came from inside the house. That's so clever. What a twist. The return address is in the home. Yeah.

Sorry for the docs, Gordon Massey, if you're still out there listening. Yeah, let me real quick put in his address, see if he lives there. Don't go visit it. Hey, could you go ahead real quick, Forby, Jackson, throw up a picture of this guy's home address. It looks like it's just a park now. Oh no, there's a house there. Wow, so this is the fabled house. In the Circleville story.

Yeah, wow. Looks nice. Everyone just looking at his house. Me again? I can do this. Hold on, hold on. Caleb is the dedicated letter guy. He's the incel. He's well established himself. I'm the most familiar with poor grammar. There you go. Attention, Ron Gillespie. Gillespie. Gillespie.

Okay.

Good hunting in your red and white truck. That was so out of nowhere. I also hate motorcycles. Well, yeah, this guy's absolutely insane. What the fuck? Where did that come from? Well, I think he's saying maybe one of the maybe Mary or one of the girls because he used pig to refer to her. Right. So maybe she rides a motorcycle or something. I don't know. Yeah.

Your life is in danger. No. That's dark at the end. I like that. I want to start signing emails like that.

your life is in danger yeah it's like blessed day or whatever your life is in danger what about your fucking email signature yeah send your email signature to that

And you're just sending it on normal stuff where you're replying like, yeah, sounds good to me. We'll move forward with this design. Your life is in danger. Your life is in danger, Caleb. Yeah. I send a lot of emails. I'll send some to some suppliers and vendors and see what they say. Your life is in danger. Just throw it out there like that.

You never hear from them again. They flee the country. They took your word seriously. I mean, I'd be so threatened if just randomly I got like a, your life is in danger message. Well, I think what he's saying here is that he's trying to warn Ron. He's not threatening to kill him, right? He's saying that if you don't get him kicked off, your life is in danger because he's not threatening to kill Ron over the affair, right? Well, yeah, but what else does your life is in danger mean? It's not like Gordon's going to kill him. I think that might be what he's implying.

I think so. Really? The guy, the principal? Yeah, because I mean, what's he gonna do? He's like, "Your wife's cheating on you. I will kill you." Like, what? Oh, actually, wait, wait, wait. You're right. Maybe it's not an actual threat. Maybe it's like the way of life that you have at the moment is in danger, like of being in a marriage and stuff. Yeah, that or he's saying that, you know, if you keep this quiet and Gordon thinks he can silence you, he will, you know, something like that, so.

Nah, this guy was blood hungry. He wanted to kill. I'm guaranteeing it. For absolutely no reason. He says you're a pig defender. Those are fighting words. This guy is a lunatic. Or woman.

So from there, the writer threatened to put up posters and signs and they kept their promise. Ron would make it a habit to leave for work early in the morning and spend an hour driving and pulling down offensive signs that were put up along Mary's bus row. Ron and Mary met up with Ron's sister, Karen, and her husband, Paul Fresauer, to discuss what had been happening.

Mary did have an ID on who it could be, and they actually wrote letters themselves and sent it to their suspect, basically saying, we know who you are, what you are doing, and you better stop. Okay, so...

I really hope they were sending it to the wrong person. Like, because now there's two families receiving anonymous letters. I know what you're doing. You need to stop. Your life is in danger. Maybe this is how the original guy got roped into it. Yeah. It's just a series of misunderstandings. All these anonymous letters. Yeah.

It's a game of bad telephone, but through the mail, basically. And it worked at first. Ron and Mary Gillespie tried to ease back into their normal routine and put everything behind them until August the 19th when Ron received a phone call. Mary never knew what was discussed on this call, but it solidified to Ron just who this mysterious letter writer was. Fueled by an understandable rage of frustration, Ron left to confront this person and took with him his gun.

alone he drove his truck in into the evening leaving his kids at home alone as mary was away on a small vacation in florida i wonder who she was at that time she was she was going to a bus driver conference um

That was the last time Ron's... Oh my gosh, okay. That was the last time Ron's children ever saw him as he was found dead inside his truck that was located off a road after impacting a tree. Don't you feel silly now? Oh man. I feel like we've been maybe a little disrespectful to poor Ron or maybe I was in my mind or something. Jackson, shut up, Jackson. You're the one that called him a cuck and you knew where it was going.

No, I appreciate you must have misheard. That was clearly Caleb. Ron was not a big drinker and his children believed that he was sober when he left. But when investigating his death, he was found to have a blood alcohol level of 0.16. The local police also found his gun, which had recently been fired, but no bullet was ever found. Interesting. Okay. Oh, I love this. All right. So he gets a phone call.

takes his gun and leaves. Now, his kids say he wasn't a big drinker, but the blood alcohol content, I don't think there's any... The children are liars. Yeah, yeah. I don't think there's any scenario where they forced alcohol on him, right? Or something like that. He probably was like, I'm going to go kill this guy. I'm going to get drunk to get the nerve to do it. Probably. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And he didn't have to leave drunk either. He could have gone and then, you know, drunk while he was out and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. If he doesn't drink a lot, then he doesn't have drinks at the house. So he has to go get drinks and then, you know, get ready to kill someone, basically. Right. The firing the gun, though, is interesting. Yeah.

That's weird. Well, okay. I can explain this. Maybe, maybe he, when he went out to get the drinks, he's never killed someone. I assume maybe he's never even fired the gun. So while he was out getting drinks, he went to like some woods or something and then yeah, you're right. You're right. Yeah. Like warms up like, okay, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. Yeah. That makes sense.

Yeah, that's my explanation. He was trying to get the gumption to do it, yeah. Yeah. But also, it's more interesting if they did meet up and then the letter writer killed him and then framed him. That's the fun... That's the fun aspect. The lost amount of time. Did he meet the person? Maybe he killed someone. Maybe... Yeah, yeah. Maybe they had a duel. Yeah. An old-fashioned duel.

That would be fun. That's the fun angle instead of he died drink driving. He got struck into the tree, yeah. That's sad, man. Which is sad. So what happened to him that night? We will never really know if he confronted the letter writer or if he instead died from drinking and driving. The question still remains of the gun and the missing bullet. At first, Sheriff Radcliffe, the man looking after the case, thought that the situation was unusual and foul play might be involved in the death.

This only really changed when Ron's alcohol level test came back. In an even more bizarre turn of events, it seemed that whoever was behind the letters was frustrated with how this particular case was investigated, later writing a letter which alleged that Sheriff Radcliffe covered up Ron's death. It also pointed a finger at the coroner, Dr. Carroll, and accused them of sexual abuse to young kids. Holy shit. That is so wild. Okay, so hold on. If this...

let's let's have some fun here i know i understand the letter writer was like most likely a mentally ill individual writing these words but let's have some fun but he seemed to actually know stuff he seemed to actually like yeah what what if there was some because there's all these small towns that have like their own hidden conspiracies inner workings and stuff like that what if there actually was a conspiracy theory between members of the school board the sheriff stuff like that

what if the letter writer was trying to help Ron met up with him and then Ron dies. So then all the detail, maybe there was more details of the crime scene that were covered up. Like maybe the alcohol content was lighter, you know, whatever you could have fun with it. Um,

And then the letter writer continues to send out these anonymous letters trying to further uncover the conspiracy that the sheriff's involved in, that the coroner's involved in, stuff like that. Now, is it more likely that one guy's crazy than it is that the entire town is some deep conspiracy? Yes, but it's not as fun.

But I don't... Okay, so I don't understand why there would be this kind of grand conspiracy with all these town officials and stuff. What it boiled down to was some kind of vendetta against an infidelity with a bus driver and a principal. Why would they even... Correct. Why would this conspiracy exist? It is far more likely... I mean, if you wanted... I mean, if we were humoring the conspiracy, then it could be that the Massey, the... What's

was it the principal? Was Massey a principal? What was his position? Yeah. The, um, that the principal, uh, was having an affair. And then maybe there were some other affairs going around town and everyone tried to keep that quiet. And then the situation keeps blowing up and then Ron pokes his nose where it shouldn't be. And then he dies and they're like, whatever. Again, I don't think this is likely. So if, if, if the, um,

It's a 14,000 person town, so it's fairly small. I feel like the sheriff and the principal of the school and stuff like that would probably know each other. So maybe they're all aware of each other's deep, dark secrets, basically, of Dr. Carolyn, his abuse to children. Sheriff Radcliffe maybe was a dodgy detective. Not a detective. A dodgy sheriff.

And they all knew also that the principal was banging the bus drivers and stuff like that. So they all had collective dirt on one another. So they covered up this to protect the principal. That would be the high-profile scenario. I guess could be the implication. Principal Massey's lover. Yes. Because they needed to cover it up for him because he had dirt on them about all their stuff as well, maybe. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Now, again, far more likely that it's just a crazy guy writing these. But it's funny. I don't know. You kind of convinced me there somehow. You're right. You're right. I need to further dive into the idea that this is actually a grand conspiracy. I'm actually not even joking. That's actually kind of believable to me. Yeah, I would say so. I've had a whole pot of coffee. I'm going to pee really quick, and then I'll be right back. Okay. I might actually take that chance to pee as well, if you don't mind. Me as well.

Alright, I'm back. I never actually win. I lied. I never actually win, PP. Oh, oh, well. Excuse me. I just lied. Sorry. This relationship has always started off on the wrong foot then. I'm just a big time... I'm the heel, so I'm going to do stuff like that, you know? That's pretty cool. I need you to be meaner to Jackson or you're off the show. That's all I got. I got...

It'll take a few episodes. I'll lean into it. I'll start doing some research. I'll hire a PI. Start sending him letters. I'll try to make it as easy as possible for you. Caleb's just quiet a few episodes and then he just pulls out a piece of paper. He's like, you want to tell me about what happened with George Ramsey in the 10th grade? You just pull up my deepest, darkest secrets on the fucking podcast out of the blue and I start sweating. Jackson's actually like 54 years old. Little known fact.

Caleb just kills Jackson. Straight up. Wow, what a good bit. What a great prank. Okay, so Mary continued to get letter... We're right here after the letter.

Yeah, because we have the letter where he writes saying that the coroner, Sheriff Radcliffe, or like Peddows or whatever. So it says, Mary continued to get letters past Ron's death, and so did many others in the town of Circleville. In fact, over a thousand letters were sent and delivered to the scared residents between 1977 and 1983. The town was being harassed by this figure, someone who evidently had dirt on many of the people in Circleville.

In a seemingly incredible turn of events that evidently proved some element of truth to the Circleville writer's letters, even though Mary and Gordon Massey denied having an affair previously, they were now found in a public romantic relationship after the death of Ron. Bro! Dude!

Ron, fuck. I feel so bad for Ron, man. He didn't deserve this. Ron died for her honor. He didn't die for her. Yes, he did. Yes, he did. Because if she had owned up or if he had believed that she was having an affair, he would have stopped the presses, exposed the principal, whatever. He wouldn't have been in a scenario where someone calls him, he grabs a gun, gets drunk, and drives to go find him. And he was operating under the premise, the belief...

of his wife being honest. Yes. In fact, it was very clearly that Ron straight up died for her honor. Ron died for her honor. Flip flopped. You have flip flopped on her like three times. I'm back on that. Dude, that,

How about this? It was her. The bitch married the cuck. All right. That's where I'm at. Look, I'm with Caleb on this. His initial, like, that's the devil. That's the mask. There's a demon there. He was right. You know what that was? Yeah. That was the Holy Spirit. Perfect.

A demon. He saw through the mask immediately. It freaked me out. I mean, immediately, I was like, whoa! You immediately knew. You immediately knew. It's just a human woman. All right. Yeah, and then his logic and reason stepped in and were like, no, no, no, that's not the devil. And then, sure enough, he was right. I'm saying things. If she would have owned up and been like, yes, I was having an affair, Ron would be alive. Yeah.

Yeah. Yes. 100%. That's insane. Well, not 100%. Maybe, maybe, maybe not today, but he wouldn't have died right now. Yeah. He wouldn't have died in the same way, but maybe like they went through a messy divorce and he started drinking a lot. Okay. Shut up. Shut up. We're talking hypothetical. A drink would have actually caught up to him.

Jackson's like, it was fate. He's like, look, I don't believe in fate, but what I do know is Ron Galipsi was destined to die in an alcoholic car crash on August the 19th, 1977. Like,

It was in the threads of fate. He couldn't escape it, man. Okay, Gordon and Mary are such losers. Now, this is interesting, because like you wrote there, that means that this writer was right about something. So what else was he right about? He clearly knew stuff. I don't know how he knew stuff. I guess he tracked them down and watched them. Maybe he was the boyfriend of somebody, you know? Like...

To me, it makes equal parts sense for it to be. Well, it makes less sense for it to be Mary, but it's funny, right? If it's crazy, if it's that grand of a conspiracy. It is funny if it's Mary. I can't wait to get to my theories below. It could either be, in my opinion, it could be a other girlfriend of Gordon or a boyfriend of one of Gordon's girlfriends.

You are so smart, Caleb. That's my main theory as well. That's your main theory? Yeah, we'll get to it below. But it's definitely one of my main theories. Let's continue because I really want to get to that point now. So while all this was happening, Ron's brother-in-law, Paul Freshour, was fighting for more of an investigation into his brother's death. He would send a letter to the FBI with his belief that this was a murder and needed to be looked into, but it wasn't.

That you're saying it wasn't looked into. Yeah, it wasn't really explored any further. So this is the letter. I'll just quickly read it. Dear FBI, I'm asking that you get involved in my former brother-in-law's murder because I believe it was a murder and covered up by the sheriff of Pickaway County here in the state of Ohio. And again, that's what the letter writer also alleged to remember. So this letter to the FBI is from Ron's brother-in-law,

And he's kind of echoing the same sentiment of the letter writer, like the actual Circleville letter writer, that the sheriff is like, you know, covering stuff up. Please review the following exhibits, especially where they are highlighted. This confirms something is wrong. I realize the FBI is busy. However, if someone will just take a few minutes to read and confirm the enclosed, you will learn something is not right for yourself. The sheriff is Dwight Radcliffe, Pickaway County, Circleville, Ohio, 43113. I was...

I'm not going to continue because that's a spoiler. We can move on now. But I'm basically just showing that Paul Freshow was really trying to push that his brother was murdered. I'm going to say this right now. I'm the guy who's been making these instant judgments by the way people look. I'm going to say Paul does not look trustworthy to me.

Paul looks like Ron Jeremy. What's wrong with him? He looks like Ron Jeremy. He looks like Ron Jeremy mixed with Mario. I can see that. Yeah, he does. You're right. It's like a... Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I can't really defend him, honestly. He's kind of hitting us with the blue steel a little bit, to be honest. Yeah. Like a 10%. If you cover up everything but his eyes, he could be a model. Yeah. He does look like him.

If you cover up the rest of his flesh. I don't know about the nose and mouth. That's pretty rough. Yeah, that's why I said covering it all up. Oh, I thought you said just the eyes. Cover up just the eyes. I got you. That would be weird. If you're covering up his whole face, then what's the model detail? The forehead? What are you talking about? No, the eyes. Just the eyes. Cover up everything. I'm just saying he's got attractive eyes. Jackson is literally falling for this guy. Yeah.

I'm an eyes man. What can I say? I hope Caleb's right with his like super autism like his human radar. That's such a cool superpower. Nice. He just looks at someone and he's immediately like good, good, bad, bad, bad. Such a simple view of the world. That's funny. Binary. So...

I'm surprisingly, maybe, no, I'm impressed by his intuition, Caleb's intuition so far. He's been throwing out some good opinions. If this Paul guy actually did something bad, I'm going to throw up after that. It had been nearly six years since Ron's death, and Mark was at work driving her. Mary. Mary.

No one in the story is named Mark. In my head, I'm like, Mark, who's Mark? Like, where did he... Yeah, what is this fucking Mark? You just went with it. Yeah, I was like, all right. Okay, Jackson. It had been nearly six years since Ron's death, and Mary was at work driving her usual afternoon work bus route. Nearby where Ron died, she saw a sign in the distance that said something inappropriate about her teenage daughter. It directly implied that Gordon Massey was romantically involved with...

I wrote Gordon Massey twice. That one was you. That one was you. Yeah, that one was me. The teenage daughter. Involved with the teenage daughter. Okay, so what Jackson had written is it said it's... It said that Gordon Massey was in a relationship with Gordon Massey. He's jerking off, basically. Yeah.

Directly implied that he was masturbating. The sign said that Gordon Massey was involved with Mary's teenage daughter as well. Yeah, which is more salacious. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And remember, Gordon Massey and, what's her name, Mary are in a relationship at this point as well. Yeah, so the sign's alleging that Mary is letting her boyfriend have relations with her daughter. Yeah, which is a very... Which is why she was upset about it.

Wait.

The box. The box. Oh, the box. I see. Gotcha. I thought you were saying she destroyed the sign because she thought it would be helpful evidence. No, that was poorly written by me. It was the box. She took the box thinking it could be evidence. When she got home, she opened the box. Inside was a loaded .25 caliber pistol

Mary had, for all intents and purposes, narrowly escaped a booby trap. Oh, it was supposed to shoot her when she grabbed the sign. Yeah, when she tore down the sign. What the heck? It's crazy.

A string was tied to the trigger that traced itself outside the box. It was supposed to go off and kill Mary when she took down the sign, but because she took the box, it never went off. Okay, so the question is, is that the kind of tactic that a Ron Jeremy slash Mario hybrid would take to kill a person? I mean, apparently. I don't think so. Well, hold on. Were there any witnesses to this? No, which is a good point.

Well, I also, okay, so it's been six years. It's been six years since Ron's death. And the letters have been continuous. The letters have been continuous, but for the most part, it kind of sounds like she got away with it. Because after six years of weird letters, like, you know, everyone just kind of turns their head to it. I don't think Mary would stage all of this to try to get someone in trouble. Unless she's insane. Yeah.

No, she seems like more of a weasel than anything to me. She's like, she covered up that she had an affair, she kept quiet about it until she could be public. I don't think she would do something this forward. She got her dream ending. She got her, like, knight in shining armor and that of the bus driver. Yeah, she got Gordon Massey, yeah. Ron's dad. I guess that's what she wanted, maybe. I don't know. I don't know what her game plan was. Yeah. Hmm.

Mary immediately went and took this trap to the police. After a quick look at the gun, they realized that a poor attempt at sanding off the serial number had been made, but they were still able to read it. With this, they were able to trace the gun back to its owner, Ron's brother-in-law, Paul Freshour. No, Mario, damn it. Look at you, Caleb. Wow. How did you know, Caleb? I don't know. It just looked funny, dude. I try not to make judgments.

I try not to make judgments, but... Bad, bad, bad. Bad, good, good. It had been a turbulent few years for Paul, with him and Karen having gone through a divorce due to Paul's, quote, cruel treatment of Karen. Paul, however, gained custody of their children, and Karen was forced out and lived in a trailer on Mary's property. Wait, he was beating her and shit and abusing her? He got the children and the house? Hold on.

Okay, now we have a very tangled web. That seems unfair. So, okay. So, Paul...

Beat his wife affected. Well, it doesn't say be cruel treatment. Whatever that means now that was 70 slang for beating that was probably 70s slang for she burnt the casserole So you gave her a black eye? Yeah. Yes, probably probably not good. So Yeah, he's abusive or whatever and then she leaves but somehow he gets the kids. Um for whatever reason his dreamy eyes

Well, yeah. He's lucrative career as an Italian plumber. Please. I'm just a guy. I'm just a guy. I'm just a real fellow. If you ignore my nose and mouth, I'm beautiful. Yeah, he comes in with like a balaclava that's covering up everything but his eyes. I was a judge.

I'd be like, yeah, he's in court in a ski mask. Like I miss my kids. So I just, I just made a mistake. No, it's the seventies. It's, it would probably be just like, this guy has got a career he can provide for the kids. Just give them the kids. Yeah. True.

I feel like they used to side with mothers even more than they do now. Well, I'm also dumb to it. I could be speaking up. I don't think so. I think that's probably a newer thing. Okay. I can believe that. But Paul was still living on a property, on Mary's property, so it still could be Mary. Wait, no. Karen was living on the trailer on Mary's property. Paul had his own house. Oh, Karen was for... Oh, okay. Yeah. Never mind. Never mind. Forget that. I didn't read that.

It could be Karen. Let's not rule out Karen as well. Okay, so hold on. Let's lay all this out in our minds. So Paul's married to Karen. They get a divorce. Paul takes the kids. Karen lives on Mary's property because Karen and Mary are sisters, correct? Right. Fuck, I need to go back up and check. No, I don't think they're sisters. I don't think they're sisters. Well, Ron and Paul were brothers-in-law, right? Yeah, I think one of the girls is...

I think, okay, no, Karen is Ron's sister, I think. Oh, okay. Okay. Right?

Does that make sense to you? No, that feels weird because then why would Karen move on to the property of her brother's ex-wife who cheated on her? Her dead brother's ex-wife. Her dead brother's wife who cheated on her. I don't know. Relationships are weird. Maybe they were just friends. I mean, I know, but still, that feels... Maybe. Maybe, sure. I mean, that's just what the... That's what I found, anyway. Okay, so regardless, Karen's now living on Mary's property. And then...

Paul sets up this huge like Rube Goldberg machine to kill her by putting a sign up.

You're giving him too much credit. It's a gun with a string on it. I don't know, I like that Rube Goldberg gets funny. I mean, it's kind of insane to be like, I'm going to put up a sign and then she's going to come tear it down and then she's going to get shot by my Vietnamese booby trap. It seems like a lot of assumption, right? Anyone could have come across that. What if it's just like a highway patrol guy like, oh, well, this is crude. Yeah, and then Bobby Liggett gets his head blown off. Yeah. Yeah.

Uh, the police went to Paul's home to question about his gun in the trap and he claimed it had been missing for weeks. Man, there's so many. Okay. He usually kept it tucked away in his basement. Paul immediately became a suspect in the case. He had taken off that day to do work around the house and was spotted by neighbors creating a pretty solid alibi for when the trap would have been planted. But when they spoke to his ex-wife, Karen, she revealed that Paul had been the one sending letters to Mary.

She had apparently found a torn apart and partially destroyed letter in the toilet at one point. Now, I have so many questions. That's what she claimed. I have so many questions. Okay, but first of all, we can't... She was a scorned... You know, she was beaten by them and stuff. She was probably resentful towards them. So maybe she's lying as a way to, you know, fuck him over. Maybe Karen... Yeah, maybe Karen... Maybe Karen was fucking Ron. Oh my God. Don't add that all of it. This is breaking my mind. Wait, yeah, they were related. No, that's bad. Yeah.

I'm just saying, you know, it's a theory, right? I'm not trying to rule anything out. I'm just saying, man. An incest me on the table? Maybe. I'm not endorsing it. I'm just throwing it out there. I'm not endorsing it. Yeah, dude. I'm not endorsing it, you know? I'm just throwing it out there. He was a cunt already, so it's like...

But yeah, anyways. There's so many strings here. Okay, so. I know, it's a very confusing situation. So Karen is now claiming that Ron was the one writing the letters all along. Paul. Paul, sorry, that Paul was the one writing the letters. Yeah, Ron's dead. She says Paul's the one writing the letters. Yes. And that she found a torn apart one in the toilet.

Which is a claim. It's a claim. It's only a claim. There's no proof of that. And also, the only proof they have at this point in the case is the fact that the gun's serial number proves that the gun was owned by Ron. But as he said, he said that it was stolen or something three weeks ago. He said it's a gun he kept and Karen lived with him. So she would know about the gun. Karen would have access to it. And potentially also Mary. Mary may have had access to it. Mary and Karen would probably have access to that gun as well.

And then made it... You said it was a poor job at sanding down the serial number. It is not that hard to sand off a serial number. Unless... Unless you're a child, so maybe it's one of the children. Oh, okay. Oh, no, that's a way better point. Yeah, maybe make it look like you tried to sand it off, but leave it. Wait, were you trying to seriously argue one of the kids did it? So you were doing... Jackson...

Maybe. Potentially. Maybe. Who knows? I'm throwing out anything. You're embarrassing us in front of the new guy. No, he loves anyone being thrown under the bus. How about those kids on Mary's school bus? Yeah, why don't we take a look? Let's take a look at those kids. Yeah. Oh, they knew her route. They knew where she was driving every day. You know? Actually, it was...

Interesting. What if it was Gordon? I don't... I'm just kidding. Go on. Sorry. Honestly, it may have been Gordon. Okay, so... The bus... I have four names I can balance in my head at once. We're adding too many. I'm getting scared. But wait, just wait. I need to throw this out there because it's not in the document. Mary, when she went to the sign, she was in the bus, obviously, but there were no kids on the school bus. Right. So no one... There's no witnesses to this. There's no witnesses to that. Yep.

So in response to this, Paul was asked to take a now criticized handwriting test. Paul was given the actual letters and asked to copy them as close as he could. Of course, with that objective, he succeeded at copying the handwriting of the letters. He did not request a lawyer and he was arrested for attempted murder. He requested a polygraph test but failed.

Okay. That's not how you do a handwriting test. Hey, copy this. Copy this handwriting. Yeah. Copy this handwriting. Okay. I can do that. I mean, clearly this guy was dumb. He didn't request a lawyer or anything like that. You say he failed a polygraph test? People still to this day don't request lawyers in those situations. Yeah, they're still dumb people out there. He thought he could get out of it with his eyes, his looks.

Yeah, he was used to getting away with things due to his eyes, his steely gaze. Beautiful. The next sentence as well. Paul thought about pleading mental insanity. Why? It's such a wild jump. But ended up just pleading not guilty.

Due to his ex-wife, potentially angry at how the divorce had gone down and bitter about the cruel treatment at his hands, Karen Sue Freshour had accused him of being physically abusive. Okay. Suggesting that Paul had written threatening letters to Mary, the courts returned a guilty verdict and Paul was convicted and sentenced to 10 years in Lima, Ohio.

He was found guilty, even though there were no fingerprints or actual evidence at the scene that linked Paul to being there beyond the gun being connected to him. I don't know, man. I don't I don't trust Mary. She was having an affair on her husband and then didn't tell him and stuff like that. And then the girl who's living on her property, all of a sudden this case comes against her ex-husband that allows her to, I imagine, get custody of the kids and get him locked up.

Also, Mary could have... She could have also ripped up a letter and put it in the toilet. Yes. Yeah, she could have done that for sure. And also, let's keep in mind that these letters had been going on for six years. Why all of a sudden does the person supposedly putting the letters, supposedly...

uh paul why does he all of a sudden decide to kill mary through this super weird trap you know it's convoluted it is convoluted it's needlessly convoluted you could just kill her it wasn't that hard it was the 70s you know it does seem like most of the people around mary uh like suffering uh you know unfortunate events happening to them which is suspicious to me

It does seem to be the centerpiece. Oh, this next sentence, in a shock twist, this didn't stop the letters. Okay. Well, it wasn't him. I'm so mad at you, Jackson. Why did you try to pin Paul? It clearly wasn't Paul if the letters kept on. I never said it was Paul. I said he had attractive eyes. Okay. It wasn't Paul at all. And Paul was clearly framed for the gun thing. For sure. Had to be.

Well, he could have... No, no, no. Let's not give him too much credit. He could have done the gun thing, but then there's someone else that's picked up the writing of the letters. Okay, so hold on. You're saying that there is a series of letters going around that was trying to defame Mary or whatever, and then Paul decides to copy the handwriting to kill...

What would he even be? His ex-sister-in-law who had been doing this for six years after he successfully got through a divorce case that allowed them to keep the kids. He's just randomly like, I have nothing to do with these letters or anything, but I'm going to kill this woman who is the person that my ex-wife is living on the property of, even though I won the case. He doesn't really have any issue with her. But weren't you listening? He copied the handwriting perfectly.

Oh, yeah. I didn't think about that one. Yeah. It could have also been like the sheriff or the local... Because it seems like there is a conspiracy against anyone who isn't Mary or the local officials. Yeah. Yeah. Anyone who may let something slip. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

So maybe Mary is fucking the judge. Exactly, yeah. And it could have been just something to frame him to make him a fall safe. A fall guy. A fall guy, yeah. Unless they actually thought it was Paul, then that wouldn't stop the letters. Okay, anyway, I'll keep reading. More and more letters were sent to people from all around Ohio, still postmarked Columbus. Sheriff Radcliffe and his co-workers were still utterly convinced that this was Paul...

Even with it. Okay. I'm with Caleb. That was definitely a conspiracy. They were convinced it was Paul, even with him being in solitary confinement with no pins, no paper and his main in and out heavily monitored.

He was an incredible magician. Yeah, the fact that the sheriff's still like, oh, it's this guy. Yeah, he definitely knows something. Well, no, I took that as more like them just protecting their jobs and egos, I think. Yeah, it's the police like, no, no, we got the right guy kind of thing. Yeah. Well, tied within their jobs and egos is hiding the truth of it, too, if they are implicated. So you're right, Jackson. You're right. Yay.

It was pretty impossible for Paul to write those letters, leading many to believe the letter writer can't be him, but this has never been proven. Paul was sent a letter himself in prison, mocking him for being locked up.

That feels weird. There was also... Who is writing these letters? There was also another that pointed at a prosecutor at the trial, accusing them of killing a woman who was pregnant. It turned out that this was kind of true. What? The prosecutor was the father of an unborn child with a woman he had an affair who died...

Hold on. The prosecutor was fathering a woman during an affair and that child died or the woman died? The prosecutor was the father of an unborn child with a woman he had an affair with who died. The woman died, so the child was unborn. Is God writing these? Who knows all of that? Yeah, I don't know. How do they know everything? This is like a Saw movie level...

No, this is all like things you would probably learn through gossip. And gossip is historically said to be a woman's tool. I guess. Yet again. It all comes back to Mary. Also, the coroner who had previously was accused of being a sex offender was charged in 1993 with 12 counts of sex crimes, immorality, corruption of a minor, pornography, obscenity, and indecent exposure.

This is all to say that the Circleville rider wasn't off and wrong. That letter he said that the coroner who did the autopsy on Ron was a pedo turned out to be right. Yes. Dude.

What does it mean? All right. I'm clearing the table. I'm clearing the table right now. Okay. There is a huge conspiracy across this town or was, was a huge conspiracy across this town. Whoever this writer is knows everything. He is a member of it. He is a whistleblower. He is something. And he was trying to save Ron that night. Oh, oh, that makes so much sense. The letter he wrote to Ron when he said your life is in danger meant he knew the links, the conspiracy we're going to.

That someone's going to have you whacked off. The sheriff will kill you. Yeah, the sheriff or someone will kill you. And then what happens? Ron dies in a car crash and the police say that he was drunk and ran off the road. But the coroner, the police, everyone who did it was corrupt and a part of it.

I would agree with you if the letter to Ron wasn't also heavily insulting him and being antagonistic towards him. If you wanted to save him. No, no, no, no, no. Read this as someone who knows about the consp... Where's that one out? Read this as someone who knows about the conspiracy.

You're doing a lot for her. No one cares that much for anyone this day. That's a compliment. Like, I know you care about your wife. Make him come to her rescue, but he won't. He's being awful good lately. He knows what he must do. He's saying that your wife and the principal are not having an affair because the principal has to keep it under wraps. He's being good lately. He knows what he has to do. So they're trying to let the heat die down, but he won't.

saying that eventually he's going to sleep with your wife again. Make her admit the truth. Call the school board. His affair must stop. That's all trying to work for Ron. And then the other letter he says is, attention, Ron, you have two weeks and have done nothing because as mentioned, cuck, right? You're a pig defender because his wife's having an affair and he's not doing anything about it. You are also a pig saying if you're not going to blow the whistle on this and you're no better than the people doing it, make her admit the truth. If

If not, I will broadcast it on poster signs, billboards, blah, blah, blah. Only pigs ride motorcycles. That's just funny. God.

in your red and white truck on your way to work. Let her read this. It's no lie. I followed Gordon Massey and have seen her several times. You will see this is no joke. He knows what I want. When he quits, I'll go away. Your life is in danger. He is trying to warn Ron. He's like, Ron, I know you trust your wife, but she's a pig. If you don't call her out, you're a pig too. There's a conspiracy going around. Your life is in danger if you don't do something about this. And what happened is Ron died. He was right. Ron's life was in danger.

I mean, yeah, the Circleville writer is always right. And he obviously has insider knowledge. He's too right. He's too right. He called out a coroner for being a pedophile and he was correct. Yeah, but that's it's a small town like gossip. He was right. The guy who did the autopsy on Ron was covering up crimes. Yeah, he was 100% right.

So what is the timeline between the accusation of the coroner and the actual charge in 1993? Where are we at right now? 20 years. So 1977 to 1993. 14, 15 years, yeah. But where are we in the time that he was accused before being actually charged? How did they know that he was, you know, they had a suspicion that he did it?

See, that's the thing. It had to have been happening for years if he was right all the way back then. I don't think he made a crazy guess shot of like, I think that guy's a criminal and he turned out to be. I think that it had been going on for years. I think just like the affairs, it was a conspiracy within the town that the writer knew about. Yeah. I mean, how often do we know that happens now?

What are the chances that this just taking a step back in general, you know, the dancing plague of like the 1500s when people just started dancing and they are kind of thing. Yeah. Like a weird mass hysteria, like a, an actual, like a mind virus just infected. And there's like 20 people who are all just fucking sending letters just because they feel like they have to. That is a theory. Yeah. So,

So the theory with that is it started off as an initial person, the Circleville writer initially being angry about this principal sleeping with his girlfriend and those letters started. But then once that news spread out and people saw it, saw those letters in person or whatever, it started spreading among the community and people started using it as a way of airing their dirty laundry and stuff like that.

Which I guess is a possibility, but the handwriting was all pretty similar, so I don't know. Well, it's an easy to copy handwriting. There's no curves. It's all straight lines. It's just blocks. Okay, hold on. It's a possibility. I'm not going to rule that out. Hold on. Okay, this is interesting. So let's work on the assumption that Paul was framed for the attempted murder of Mary. But, as you said...

Originally, he did... The divorce happened because he was abusive to Karen, right? Yeah. So he could have been just some Joe Blow wife-beater who has now been framed for murder, right? So with that in mind... With very good eyes, though. With very good eyes. So the Circleville writer says... This is the letter he writes to Freshour...

Now, when are you going to believe you aren't getting out of here? I told you two years ago when we set them up, they stay set up. Don't you listen at all? No one wants you out. No one. The joke is on you. Ha ha. Tell no one of this letter. I saw the paper. Great news. Great. The sheriff loved it. Ha ha. Do you believe it now? Do you? Okay.

That sounds to me, okay, that whole thing that says, when we set them up, they stay set up, that makes it sound like whoever is writing these letters is a part of the elite. Of the conspiracy. Of the conspiracy. Either of the conspiracy or they know the people that's doing it. There's someone high up. That's what makes it sound like when we set them up, they stay set up. But he doesn't have sympathy for Paul because, as mentioned, Paul's a wife beater, right? Of course. He's the ultimate fall guy.

Exactly, yeah. No one wants you out. So joke's on you. You're going to stay in there. Yeah. In spite of how beautiful your eyes are. Some powerful person teasing him, basically. Mm-hmm.

Stromboli from the story of Pinocchio. Yes. I'm sticking with my theory that the Circleville writer's like a hero, that he's cool. Because he's been right about everything. He correctly called out affairs, child crimes, a prosecutor murdering a woman he was having an affair with. He's been right about everything. Who set up the gun for Mary? Yeah, but there, that's the issue. He may have killed a person, Ron. Or also tried to kill Mary.

No, no, no. I'm not saying... I don't think he killed him. I think he called that guy that night saying your life's in danger, whatever. And then Ron gets killed. So this guy is simultaneously setting up all these plans, setting people up, but also was too kind to kill Ron to go ahead with that plan? This guy's a genius. No, no, no, no, no, no. He didn't... The Circleville writer never killed Ron. I'm saying that the sheriff or whatever, allegedly, someone in the conspiracy killed Ron.

Yeah, I get that. And then the Circleville writer said that it was a setup to make it look like Ron died in a drunk driving accident. Right, right, right, right. Fuck, I don't know. I'm so confused, man. Look, all I know is I have seen, like, with the story of the boys on the tracks, I have seen grander, bigger conspiracies be proven absolutely to be the work of a conspiracy, right? Yeah, it's crazy. I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm not saying it's even unlikely. It's a lot to take in. Okay, so...

This is another letter written. A letter he wrote to Unsolved Mysteries. What the heck? Okay. Did you read this paragraph first? Oh, sorry. Sorry. I didn't read that. My bad. When up for parole in 1990, Paul was denied due to the ongoing letters. He's in jail. He didn't write the letter. Okay.

Paul, stop writing letters and you can get out of here. He was still being heavily watched and his cell sweeped and searched regularly, but everyone blamed him for the letters. This is insanity. Okay, 100%, there is a conspiracy happening and Paul was the fall guy. Not to say Paul was a great dude, but he was the fall guy for this. In 1994, Unsolved Mysteries was filming a feature about the Circleville letters when they received what is believed to be the last letter. Paul was released the same year and still claims he is innocent of everything.

The letter says, forget Circleville, Ohio. Do nothing to hurt Sheriff Radcliffe. If you come to Ohio, you El Sickos will pay the Circleville rider. Easy to fake for a TV show.

It is, yeah. Or someone wrote it to get attention or something. Yeah. I mean, again, it's a very easy font, like you said. Yeah, that's how I write normally. It'd be easy for me. And there's too much attention on it now to say that it was, you know... Authentic. Authentic, yeah. It's like the Jack the Ripper letters. There were hundreds. Good luck. The stakes are low now as well. Very low. Yeah. It doesn't really matter.

So, there are some strange aspects about the letters once you start looking into them. They are all written in capital letters, but at the start, the writing is quite tall and slightly slanted. The author uses a lot of colons, almost as if they're being used instead of full stop, and the letters include the occasional spelling error. The handwriting of the letters began to change over time, becoming shorter and blockier. It seems that the writer was always carefully writing unnaturally to cover up their true handwriting.

The tone of the letters evolved over time. Some were angry and vulgar, while others more informative. Regardless, most experts believe that the handwriting was created in such a way to hide the natural handwriting of the writer and the word choices. Potentially, yeah. I think so. All right. Would you like to take the theory section, Jackson?

Yeah, I'll take this one. All right. So who was it? These are the main theories. So the most obvious theory, apart from the conspiracy angle, here is Paul Freshour. He did go to jail. Yeah, I knew you were going to say that. It's the most obvious theory. He did go to jail for attempting to marry Gillespie. However, there is a lot of conflicting evidence and aspects that do cause some doubt in people's minds about his guilt.

Also, there is the question of motive. Why would he do it? He maintained his innocence until his death in 2012 at the age of 70. In fact, it's very weird that Paul would be so insistent that Ron had been murdered instead of him accidentally dying from drunk driving if Paul was the letter writer. Because remember, he messaged the FBI being like, hey, can you guys actually investigate this? If he was the actual writer, that would be weird. He's your hero, Isaiah. He's your hero.

No, hold on, hold on. The wife beater's not my hero. I just think...

Focus on the eyes. He's the canary in a coal mine. Look at his eyes. Shut up. I just think that Paul did not put that on me. I want you to say that you think Paul was misunderstood. Say it. No, no, no, no, no, no. I just think that Paul, the only way I would say Paul is misunderstood or something is if Karen framed him for the physical abuse, but I don't know the case enough to know that. Oh, true. Yeah. She might've been lying about that. She could have been lying about that. Sure.

She was working with Mary in the conspiracy. Yes. That is the only reason I would do that. Otherwise, as far as I know, Paul's wife, but I don't think he killed anyone. If Paul was the letter writer, why on earth would he publicly side with what the letter writer says that Ron was murdered and all that? Well, maybe to give himself the benefit of the doubt, maybe like provide an alibi for himself almost.

Like, it can't be me. It can't be me. I'm too close to the suspect. Like, no, I don't think that works. I don't know, man. Continue.

Where was I? Some, however, believe Paul to be obsessed with infidelity as he came to believe his wife had been cheating on him, which is what caused that whole saga with the abuse and stuff. So he, yeah, he was. Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait. Hold on. Karen was cheating on him or that's what he believed. That's what he believed. Yes. And then all of a sudden Karen says that he's abusive and then somehow in a court case, he wins the kids. Yes.

It's the whole town is in a conspiracy against Paul Fresh, to be honest. Our boy Paul Fresh, he, yeah. What did he do? What did he do to this town? I'm not, okay, I don't know the case, but I'm not going to say anything. I'm just saying that the former accusations Caleb had against me and my relationship with Paul may not be entirely unfounded based off of that piece of information.

You can't call her a liar. She made the accusation 50 years ago. I can't. You're right. You're right. I can't. But if he had previously said she was cheating, and as we know, there's a whole ring of infidelity happening in this town with a lot of high up people.

Like, I don't know, judges or something? Yeah, but wait, wait. It's not inconceivable to think that a physically abusive asshole would also not accuse his wife of cheating. That's true. To me, it would depend on which came first and the details of it. I don't have enough information to say as well. Yeah, we don't know enough about their relationship to really say it, which is frustrating. Correct, yes.

Who knows? Yeah, so that would be a potential motive as the Circleville letter writer certainly seemed to be obsessively hateful towards adulterers. What a scumbag, right? Also, in the bucket of evidence against Paul was the fact that his handwriting found by investigators at his Anheuser... Fuck, I think I've completely butchered that. Anheuser-Busch. Yeah, the fucking beer place. Job matched out of the letters. Budweiser? Is that what they do? It's the parent company. They make them, yeah. Okay.

Yeah, okay. Beer place, which makes the whole write the letters exactly how they look direction by the police slightly less stupid and inconsequential. But you don't believe that, do you, Isaiah? Yeah, because at this point, okay, look, let's look at just the facts. He's getting so passionate. I am. I'm getting fired up. Look at just the facts. We know for a fact that the coroner who worked with the police department was a pedo.

We know that the prosecutor was wicked. We know that there was like, there, there was a, a known string of adultery happening with all the top dogs. I, and we know that the police, while Paul was in jail and letters were being sent out, said over and over that this is our guy, that he's somehow getting these letters out of solitary confinement or whatever. Right. So, uh,

I do not trust a single word the police say. The police say they found a letter that masks his handwriting. Show me. BS. I don't believe you. Yeah. I still don't understand who the writer would be then in this conspiracy theory.

multiple people like I said it could be multiple people it's whistleblowers or is it like part of the game that these people are playing as well like the people at the head of the conspiracy maybe they're just having fun people who are I mean like maybe but people who are like having affairs and like as we know like doing like crimes against children and stuff like that I don't think they're sending hints about it in the mail yeah

Yeah, that's not fun. Then who is it? I think someone who knew grew a conscience. Or maybe they had one of like, I'm in over my head or whatever. Like someone who knew about all this was going down started to leak information out to the public. He's trying to blow it open with the affair at school, but that didn't work. So he just started to lean into everything else. Potentially. How many letters total were sent?

Oh, across the town, like 20,000, I think. Something like that. Oh! So it's got to be more than one person. It's got to be a couple people. Or a very busy person. I mean, it was several decades. Because at this point, you think it's a small town. People don't have anything better to do. So if it's just one person and not a conglomerate of a couple whistleblowers, like what Isaiah's saying, it seems like...

There would be enough local investigation and enough nosiness in that town to figure out who's doing it if one person is spending so much time to write 20,000 letters. How do you do that without getting caught at some point? Go to Staples!

just set up watch it staples that's a lot of paper look who's buying 1800 on the post there's your guy go to the yeah the post office in the post the post would know if they have a local post office they would know if all these letters are being sent in town they would 100 by one person this is another thing that i don't understand if this guy if this letter writer was setting up all these posters and stuff around the town so frequently why don't they just like stake it out because

Because it had to be multiple people. It had to be multiple people. Also, that handwriting, the handwriting, look at that. Look at the first one that's on paper where every letter perfectly is on double spaced and all the letters are written in the same thing. That looks like handwriting a group would adopt so they could all have the same calligraphy. It looks like a format for everyone to follow. Yeah, I agree. I think it was the Carter administration. Laughter

Thank you. Thank you, Caleb. I mean, two decades. People are obviously going to jump into it. I'll tell you this. These $20,000 were not written by some wife beater. Okay. Who like was doing all this from jail after he got arrested. Absolutely. What else is he going to do in jail? He's got nothing else to do. He may as well write the letters. Dude. Okay. You said in the document that he was like constantly had his cell being checked, was not sending any letters out. How?

Yeah, but Andy Dufresne got out of his jail cell in Shawshank Redemption. Oh, shut up. Okay, keep reading. I've got to beat you to death. I'm coming to Australia right now. All right, where was I? However, could Paul have been framed? The letters did continue while he was in jail and he received... Oh, wait. You're on this one. That's a correct ding. Ding, ding, ding. Yeah.

Yeah, it was very effeminate. The letters did continue while he was in jail and he received letters himself, either by the real letter writer, someone unconnected looking to taunt him, or maybe even his ex-wife, Karen. Karen is such a douchey name as well, so it's possible. She had a motive in causing pain to Paul to win back custody of her kids, which she did when he went to prison. She also had access to information like where he kept his gun and knew about his day-to-day life. And remember, she directly implicated him by saying that he flushed the letters down the toilet or whatever.

Karen gave strong statements in the trial implicating that Paul was guilty, which carried a lot of weight in the verdict. So you guys don't believe that it could have been Karen? I said I'm willing. Wait, hold on. That the letters were Karen? Yeah, or she framed him. I think she could have framed him.

I feel like her going and finding a box with a gun tied to it with a half scraped serial number. Maybe it was okay. Maybe the entire town, like whatever this conspiracy was, was tired of this letter writer. And maybe they really did think it was Paul or Paul was involved. So they're like, hey, you girls, right? You want custody of your kids back? You want all this stuff? We're going to frame him for murder.

Or attempted murder. So you're going to do this. You're going to say you found this box, whatever. Oh, look, the serial number's tried to be scratched, but it's still there. So they go and arrest him, and then the letters keep up, and they just keep denying it, saying it's the guy they got in jail. I would believe they were a part of the conspiracy to frame him. I don't think they were the letter writers. You know what, though? I think it's actually extremely easy for Karen to have pulled this off, to frame him. Yes. Because...

she was probably pretty, she was living on the property of, what's her name? Mary. Karen? No, Mary. Yeah, she was living on the property of Mary, so they were clearly close. And Mary probably didn't have any love for Paul, considering he was a wife beater and all that kind of stuff. So like, and she was the one that found the box with the gun and stuff. So they probably like colluded, right? To frame him. Yeah. Is what my assumption would be. To me, it's like, if it's Paul, then it's Paul, right? If it's not Paul, then it's like everybody. Right?

It seriously seems like they're using Paul just as the ultimate fall guy slash scapegoat to solve all their problems. Yeah, that's kind of accurate. If it's not Paul, it's everyone. Yeah, yeah. That makes sense. Okay, so another popular theory is that there were actually multiple riders across the year.

Alternatively, due to the large amount of letters, Sheriff Radcliffe estimated that there were a total of 20,000 letters. By the way, that's the same Sheriff Radcliffe. I don't trust him anyway. Yeah.

So due to the large amount of letters, some speculate that there may have been an original letter writer, but a kind of community trend took hold after that where people would send their own letters airing out their dirty laundry and confessing what other people had been up to. A sort of Gossip Girl situation, I think. I don't know. I've never seen it, but it sounds about right. You just threw gossip in there. Isn't that what happens? Has someone seen Gossip Girl here? I've never seen Gossip Girl. I haven't seen it.

My girlfriend nodded, so that's enough proof for me. Former FBI profiler Mary Ellen O'Toole thinks that the writer of the letters may have been a woman. That's big. This is big to me. I think one of them could have been a woman, but I don't think it was Mary. I'm with Caleb. I don't think this was any one person. There's no way. Just listen to this. Okay, I'll shut up. Let's hear Mary Ellen O'Toole's. I'm sorry. Go ahead. The original letters treat Gordon Macy like he was a property.

Quote, stay away from Macy. The goal of the letter didn't seem to be about claiming Mary Gillespie for themselves, but destroying her life if she chose to continue the affair. This, along with the repeated references to the writer being a male, possibly being misdirection, has led Mary Ellen O'Toole to speculate that the writer was likely someone who was in love with Macy.

The goal of the original letter to Macy was an attempt to spook him enough to end his extramarital tryst. And when that didn't happen, the writer instead focused on the woman in the situation as a means of ending the relationship.

So she posits the whole theory that the letters originally started as a love triangle, basically. A woman desperately trying to get the attention or claiming the principle for themselves. Another girlfriend of... Yeah, which makes sense since he was banging every bus driver in the town. Sure. One of them could have been like, I want him for myself. But why then... Okay, for one, would the initial letters about Gordon have details like...

Some of the girls are jealous of him not going after them, which seems like a weird self-report if this was the case. And also, how does this person who just wants to get with Gordon result in Ron getting killed, the sheriff being implicated, the coroner being implicated? Because she was trying to destroy... What's her name? Fuck...

There's so many names. She was trying to destroy Mary, right? Because Mary, after Ron's death, Mary got with the principal. That's the real takeaway from this. After everything that happened...

Like, I don't think someone who's just desperate to get to Gordon would continue to take everyone down. Prosecutors, coroners, stuff like that. Maybe it started as that, but either way, even if this was a woman who was desperate for Gordon, then she still knows all of this information about the higher-ups in the town, and she commits to the bit beyond Gordon after it's over. I mean...

All we've heard about is a few notable individuals in the town with sordid pasts. And I don't think that's unbelievable to think that some people in the town would have had that knowledge through gossip. I really don't. Because I know of situations in my hometown. Sure. Nothing that happened was outside of the realms of small town gossip. Sure. But...

They were also right about it. And like the later letters going on for years weren't just about Gordon. Like it was like, it was about Paul being in jail and it was about this and that. Like the letters were about everything. It wasn't just centered around Gordon. But it could have been multiple letter writers as we've kind of discovered. You're saying maybe it started with a woman and then proceeded to other letter writers. That's kind of my main theory. That's how I feel about it. But yeah, I don't know. I mean, there were so many letters that it had to be multiple people at some point.

I think it was multiple people eventually, yeah. And the way the language is kind of concocted in the beginning letters, Dove's, like, I agree with Mary Ellen O'Toole's assessment that it seemed like a woman writing it.

Agreed. That kind of possessive nature of it. Like a jealous Massey GF. One of the harem. Yeah, basically. Also, I was surprised about how Gordon Massey kind of started this whole thing with his affair and then just kind of rode off into the sunset and nothing ever is about him in the future. He started the whole thing basically by having the affair, but there's nothing really about him further on. Mm-hmm.

just kind of stops being a part of the story, which is wild. He's not implicated beyond just the affairs. So another super interesting theory is that the writer may have, and wait for this, Caleb, you're going to love this one, is that the writer may have been Mary herself. You called it from the beginning. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. This isn't exactly... Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

competing opinions this isn't exactly unfounded in true crime there was another case yes no

There was another case where a woman by the name of Ruth Finlay was also receiving letters and was even found stabbed in an apparent kidnapping attempt. It turned out that she had done these things to herself, actions that stem from childhood abuse. Mary Gillespie may have conducted all of this herself, acting out for some reason, even perhaps subconsciously. She, as a school bus driver, had plenty of time during the day to write letters and drive to Columbus to mail them. She would have been able to steal Paul's gun and set up the booby trap as she was the one who

found it in addition to that she was having an affair with massy so she knew all the details already because she was in the affair at the time of the letter we can only be absolutely sure two people knew of the affair those two being massy and of course mary gillespie okay hold on hold on hold on

The most guilt I am willing to associate Mary with this whole thing is that she was having an affair, of course. And then maybe after Karen moves on to her property, Mary's like, hey, I know a way we can get your kids back, you know?

like, can you steal one of his guns? I'll set it up to make it look like he's the letter writer or whatever. I don't think Mary was writing letters. I don't see how someone who is smart enough, like if she was just crazy, it'd be different. But someone who's smart enough to a fight to hide an affair from her husband for some time would then be like,

I'll write myself letters about it and keep them hidden just to spice things up a little bit. Unless Ron was an idiot. Like a total, you know, ninko. Well, again, unless she was actually insane. Like someone doing all this is probably insane anyway. I'm saying she seems too smart and conniving for someone to blow up their own undercover affair like that. To send a letter to her husband, Ron. And then make a convincing enough point. Yeah.

I think it makes more sense that it's a multiple. It started off as multiple women and kind of, it's like a Massey harem member. And then it sort of spread to the town officials. Maybe that hair member started fucking the officials.

as well and everyone just started fucking because i also said earlier that it doesn't make any sense that this would go on for so long if all the letters are mailed but i i remember now they the person went to columbus to mail the letters yeah specifically so that makes yeah a lot more sense but you think if it would be a legend that even the post office in columbus would would know about it yeah yeah when it's like a it's a letter thing everyone in the post office knows

Would know about it. If it's like a, I mean, you'd have to be showing, you'd have to be showing up at the Columbus post office with like a Santa Claus sack full of letters.

like 20 000 to be insane yeah that's insane 20 000 in one day but yes yeah it's a lot either way jackson it's a lot of letters a lot of letters yeah over 20 years um 20 years it's a thousand a year that's a lot that's a lot of letters what is that broken up a day uh that's yeah yeah that's two and a half letters a day yeah that's crazy i i think you're noticed eventually especially with the story being what it was

Unless maybe you're doing like it's the 70s and you're doing like a night drop off in a box where there's no cameras back then. Maybe. True. True. Wouldn't the post office have cameras? Not in the 70s. I don't think. I don't think they had CCTV. I don't know when CCTV was. Surely in the 70s. 70s is pretty old. That's a long time ago. That's 50 years. When were CCTV cameras invented? I don't know.

You should probably look up when were CC cameras used. Because they were invented in 1942. Yeah, I was going to say. CCTV was invented before KFC. Shut up. I'm going to kill you. Do not bring it back to KFC. I'm so mad. First predominantly used, I guess.

In small towns in Ohio. No, Columbus, sorry. Right, Columbus. That's a big town. That's a city. They transitioned to civilian use in the 1950s and 1960s. So I could see it being... Yeah, it's possible. In places in the 70s. Yeah.

I need to go to the Columbus post office and ask. It adds to your theory, then. If this is a big governmental or small town government cover-up, then, yeah, the sheriff wouldn't be looking at the footage. But, again, the cameras weren't in the small town. It was in Columbus. That's where the letters were being mailed from. Unless, of course, they were just dropping the letters in people's mailboxes.

Yeah, I would say that that's a really good point. And just pretending like they went through the mail system. But I would say that with the amount of seemingly obvious kind of things that are just overlooked that could have been looked into by the police and officials in the town and like the nature of Paul and that whole thing and like how they're very set on illogical. It just seems like it has to be officials that have some kind of legal power to

in the town. Well, they seemed very happy to throw the book at... What's his name? So happy. Paul. Ron? Paul. Eyes. Yeah, Eyes Man. Well, again, maybe Paul was an abusive husband, you know? In which case, it's like, I told you, like, you know, this kind of thing happens. No one wants you out. Good luck. It's not really like... It's not really writing him a letter saying that he's innocent or guilty of this. It's just kind of like, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. No one cares enough to get you out.

Maybe Paul was having affairs with everyone. Yeah, you're right. We haven't thought about that. Ron Jeremy. Yeah, it's the Ron Jeremy blood in him. Too much. Yeah, I mean, that's the end of the document. We've kind of gone over everything, really. Yeah, I think we've hit all the theories.

I don't know. I feel like also let's keep in mind, you can write whatever you want on a return address of a letter and then just drop it in any mailbox in the world. So you could drive anywhere you want in Ohio and just write Columbus and throw it in a mailbox. Well, remember he did, or they did write the principal's return address on one of the letters. Yeah, exactly. You can do whatever you want. So it doesn't have to be one post office, even if it was one person or several or whatever, they could be mailing these from anywhere.

I honestly don't know, guys. I came into this kind of set on my theory of the woman writing the letter initially and then just the community taking hold of the concept and fucking around in that capacity after the whole principal aspect had fallen away. But with you bringing up these conspiracies of the government overreach or whatever and that kind of aspect, it is pretty...

I don't know if convincing is the word. I'll put it this way. It's interesting. I think that whoever was writing the letters was a force of good. I think they were trying to blow the whistle on stuff.

I don't know if I go as far to say they were a force of good. Comparatively. Compared to the coroner who was diddling kids. Exactly. I don't think they killed Ron. I don't think the whistleblower killed Ron. Why would they kill them and then be like, oh, the coroner's covering it up. By the way, he's a pedo. I don't think they killed Ron. It seemed like the letter writers were a force of good, but conveniently, though.

and like convenient yeah they're not good enough to just blow the lid on all of this take them to court or something like that they wouldn't want to hurt their own reputation or whatever yeah they'll they're guilty about it so they'll like quietly throw out some letters to try to get the people snooping it's almost like a self-serving level of good i guess yeah yeah pretty much like it's like it's a convenient good it is a uh you know

consciousness when necessary kind of thing you know so that's where we're at that's what everyone's theories are here we've kind of gone over everything you guys don't want to add anything else i will add something else um considering that this was only 50 years ago and a lot of these people probably still live in the town allegedly as a joke this is all just hypothetical playing a game our own thoughts nothing conclusive yeah of course

Yeah, that's easy for you. All that's conclusive is that Paul has very nice eyes. That is conclusive. That's the only thing we'll stand by. I have concluded that it was the Carter administration. Anything else, I will immediately fold under pressure of cross-examination. So I do not stand by it and will not say it under oath. So, yep.

I'll stand by whatever because I'm safe over here. Because you're Australian. Everything I said, I was lying. I had my fingers crossed. Have fun with that overseas subpoena, idiot. Can they export me? We're putting you on a boat here immediately. You're getting extradited. Not export, extradite. You're getting sent straight to the embassy. Have fun with that, loser. I can't wait. Free holiday. Okay.

I'm going in the cell where Paul was. Anyway, yeah, that's going to do it for this episode, really. Shout out, Caleb, for joining us as new host. You did great. That was fantastic. Thank you for joining us. No problem. I'm excited. This is exciting. Is there anything you'd like to say to the audience as the new host after your first episode, Caleb? No, nothing at all. There we go. Very nice. I prefer to be a chameleon. I'm a chameleon. Yeah, I just, I blend in.

Perfect. How about, come on, you got something. Shout out, you know, Sal. Yeah, where can people find you? What do you do? Stuff like that. They just met you. Act like an introduction. My name is Caleb. I live at... We should have done this at the start. I live at... Okay. Dude, come visit.

Is that right? Let me check that real quick. Who is that? Did we bleep that out? Yeah, he bleeped that out. Yeah. That was his actual address. Oh my God. Don't send any naughty letters to it. No, I have a YouTube channel and I'm on this podcast now, which is cooler. And yeah, that's pretty much it. I got Sour Boys. I got a candy company. All

I'll send everyone. I already sent you a box last week, I think, Isaiah. Jackson, if you send me an email address, send me your address and I'll send you a box of candy. Is it going to be full of letters? I'm not going to get any candy. It's just going to be letters. It's letters, dude. Angry letters. Signed, you are in danger. Does the candy come to Australia? Yeah, but it's like the shipping is really expensive, so it's not worth it.

Yeah. Okay. Unfortunately, I would disagree that that candy, the candy is delicious. He sent me a box. I mean, I've had it before, but he sent me like a box of the new stuff lately and it was fire.

I'm a big Soundbites fan. You look like you take a lot of pride and care in it, so it does look delicious. I just love the concept of Kayla being like, it's time to make my YouTuber product. Will I do a mediocre music career? Child accusations, perhaps. No, I will pave my own path of being a

confectioner, a candy manufacturer. Exactly. I just really respect it. And it actually worked. It's a successful company with a good product. It's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy that it's worked. It blows my mind. But yeah. My passion to it, yeah, it comes across. It'll work that way. Cool. Well, thank you guys for having me on this episode.

No, thank you for doing this. And every future episode. Wait, what? I'm not just a guest? He's gone for good. What's going on? I don't want any part of this now. What did I sign up for? Oh, jeez, guys. It's a scary future. I'm scared. Thank you guys for watching Red Thread. Really do appreciate it sticking through us through this tumultuous time. Very rough out there for us without Charlie now.

Charlie's a friend of mine. This show would not exist without him for many reasons. And he is forever a part of the show. And he's welcome to come back and hang out anytime. Yeah, absolutely. No hard feelings. It was mutual on all sides.

And yeah, I'm very happy to be a part of a product that he set into motion. And I'm forever thankful for that and really do love the dude. Yeah, he's a great, great man. A moment of silence for Charlie. Moment of silence. See you guys. We'll see you next time.