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Hey, Scamander listeners. It's Charlie here again. And I've brought Nancy back in the studio. We're going to do another bonus episode. So many people have been asking about how Amanda actually did this. And...
The blog posts have been the big center of attention. They've been wiped from the internet, completely deleted, but we do have access to all of them. So we've pulled up some of the blog posts because, Nancy, I wanted you to talk through some of them in more detail to get more of an idea of how this actually happened. Because the blog posts weren't just in writing. There was so much imagery involved.
But it wasn't just a, again, we suppose we talked about this in the first bonus episode about the fact that scam or con doesn't really sum it up because the lens and depth and complexity of what Amanda went to is quite astonishing. Again, thank you listeners. We're so grateful and we're so glad that you love the show. And, you know, thanks for your support. So Amanda,
Nancy, Nancy, Nancy, this first blog post that we've pulled up, can you talk us through what this looks like? So what you're looking at here is
Amanda, when she got her port and Amanda's port got infected. She talked about like, I've had it for two weeks and it's the first port she's had after three years and it's infected and she has to get it taken out. So there's three pictures we're looking at and this is kind of called the port. And the first picture, Amanda's kind of got her
a mouth open in an "ah" scream and she's holding her chest with... Can you explain what a port is? So the port would be where they would administer medications, chemo, different things, easier than always getting a vein or having to get it in a vein for a cancer patient.
You know, some people definitely get them right away and some it could take a while. But for Amanda, it didn't come until 2015, so three years into her cancer treatment. And hers was placed like right on your chest above your heart kind of thing, which is, you know, I think pretty standard for folks.
But yeah, she's absolutely got that look like, oh my God, it's infected. There's definitely a... Yeah, because there's a lot of red on the picture. Yeah, there's a lot of red. It's taped down with a very clear tape as opposed to what maybe you would think like a medical tape, but a clear tape. And yeah, it's got bruising, like a lot of brown and bruising underneath it, you can see. And then... The next photo next to it is...
Amanda looking, well, she's got a pretty dress on. She's got a pink cardigan. She's got a ribbon in her hair. It was at like a family event of some sort with her mom. And then you see a scar or a line sort of somewhat in the area where the port was. I think that's part of the thing I looked at too, because to me, as you can see, it's like not where the port was, but yet that's where the scar is. And then...
If you look at the next picture too, which was from Valentine's Day, this was all right around Valentine's Day of 2015. It's her out on a date with Corey, Amanda and Corey out on a date, her husband. And you can see the scar has then moved again. It's shifted and angled differently. She's wearing a very low cut dress there and, you know, all dressed up and stuff. And you can see. And then on top of all of that,
The day, it was a Sunday when she posted about getting the port out that day, going to the hospital and getting it out. And then she posted that evening she was at an event for the church, evening gown, the whole bit. And if I remember correctly, Alita actually was talking with Jessa that day and said, oh, I saw Amanda got her port out. And she said, she doesn't have a port. She hasn't been wearing a port. So, you know, the dynamic of having a port for two weeks infected, you know, was kind of blown away.
Because in the photos next to the port photo where there's bruising in red, there's no bruising in red in the other one. So never mind the fact that the scar's in a different place. So was the scar drawn on? That would be my guess. I mean, I don't know. I suppose we can't maybe answer the question. And where did she get the port from?
Well, that's not a full, you know, a port goes under the skin. And then there's usually like you can feel like a lump or a catheter type of thing that's under the skin. I remember when my sister had hers. Here, that thing that's taped on or over it isn't quite what I remember, but maybe things have changed. She's got a big plastic thing kind of covering it, but there should be like an opening where they would then inject a needle or a...
tubing into that to be able to deliver the medication. Because again, it wasn't just convincing people or telling the story that she had cancer and documenting her journey. I mean, she kind of actually did. She went to hospitals. She's got, well, from what we can see in this picture, what looks like a port and
She's blogging about the fact that she's got a port. And then the next blog post is medications that Amanda's spoken about. So she actually got hold of medications, or did she? So this next blog post is a picture of what looks like medication bottles and stuff.
And then the photo underneath is a picture of Amanda holding one of the medications up to her face and kind of peering through it. So there's like an eye either side of the bottle and she's holding the bottle with her fingers up. And...
She says,
Is that medication in that photo? No. Is it liquid gold? Is it liquid gold? No. So the first picture you describe where you see like a couple of vials with, you know, syringes and whatnot, that's one of the ones that I was able to zoom in and blow up. And there's, you know, she's claiming this is that Keytruda. Keytruda has totally different markings on whatever bottles that comes in.
These, there's lot numbers on the bottles that you can clearly see. There's lot numbers and there's identifying numbers that when you do a simple Google search or look what that is, it's saline or it's
Things that are easily for all kinds of things. So, you know, basic stuff, not cancer. And then the one of her peering, you get a better look at the side of the label of Catruda. And again, not the right color, not the right shape, not anything to do with Catruda.
So in this picture, it's saline in a nutshell. It's not actually the Keytruda medication. And can you explain to us what Keytruda is? So Keytruda was the immunotherapy. So it's not technically a chemo, but it's an immunotherapy at the forefront that is...
It has to get reconstituted, I think I discussed in the podcast. It's kept in deep refrigeration. It has to go through an IV bag. It has to be used through a nurse oncologist. Someone has to be licensed to handle it. So for her to be standing in her bathroom holding it up would be ridiculous. Oh, and the one last thing. When I saw that post,
has a hotline. The pharmaceutical company has a hotline for registered patients. You have to be a registered patient in order to receive the, the, the Catruda. And so it's a hotline. So I called it and you gave, you give a name and a date of birth. And they told me there's no such patient registered for that medication under that name and Amanda Riley and date of birth. Cause we also zoomed in on, on one of these pictures, which shows like tablet bottles as well, pill bottles and, and,
I remember like me and some of my team, amazing, amazing team, Jackson and Casey, we zoomed in and we were like, oh my gosh, that's somebody else's name.
And it was actually angled in a way that you couldn't see the name. So we know that that medication in the photo had somebody else's name on it. It was actually a male name. Yeah, and she always, anytime she showed medications, like I said, the bottle of Katrina, it's angled in a way, it's turned that you can't see the front of it or see the name of it.
There's another picture on this blog post. It's a picture of Amanda and it says, Merry Christmas from the tube. And if there's anybody English watching, she doesn't mean the tube as in the subway. We call the subway the tube in England. So there's a picture of her and...
She's smiling. She's got a lovely smiley face, but she's got an oxygen tube in. So that's what she means by Merry Christmas from the tube. She's got an oxygen tube that goes into your nose. Mm-hmm.
How did she get an oxygen tube? Because you'd look at this and you're like, oh, poor woman, poor Amanda. It's Christmas and she's wearing an oxygen tube. How did you just get hold of an oxygen tube? Because this is the question. How did she do it? She had all these things, but how do you get this equipment? Well, I think if you remember Penny, who we interviewed, she said, I ran into her. She had a bag full of stuff from a hospital, right? When my dad was having this horrible surgery,
She had a bag with her and she told us she was there for maintenance chemotherapy. And this was like at 10 o'clock at night because he'd gone in for surgery at six o'clock and we had just been able to see him for the first time. She said she was there, like I said, for chemotherapy. She had a little bag of supplies with her. She had stuff in her hand and she held it up and it was almost like she had to explain why she had it.
She said, oh yeah, no, I just had my chemotherapy and they gave me some stuff to take home. Jessa found tubing, IV tubing in... What, you can just walk in a hospital and get an oxygen tube? No, but you can go to medical supply stores. Medical supply stores carry all kinds of stuff. And this is just generic tubing for oxygen that, you know, the little two pieces that go in your nose and around. I mean, people said they saw her with tanks of oxygen.
I mean, you can rent that. You can rent an oxygen tank. Yeah, there are definitely places or...
you concoct a story that you're feeling a certain way. You have shortness of breath. I mean, you get a, you know, a doctor to listen to you or prescribe something. Like an oxygen tube. You know, she was very quick with that one also to, you know, relate to Fault in Our Stars and like right away, you know, like, oh, look at me. This is like my own fault in my stars, which was that movie about, you know, cancer kids and what have you. Like the tugging at the heartstrings all the time.
Go to your happy place for a happy price. Go to your happy price, Priceline.
This episode is brought to you by Shopify. Do you have a point of sale system you can trust, or is it a real POS? You need Shopify for retail. From accepting payments to managing inventory, Shopify POS has everything you need to sell in person. Go to shopify.com slash system, all lowercase, to take your retail business to the next level today. That's shopify.com slash system.
And the next blog post we've got, we wanted to talk through and we picked this one because it's got a selection of photos. One of them is a photo again of Amanda. It's like a selfie. And she's, I mean, sometimes I use this expression when I take a photo. So I'm like looking at it thinking, oh, don't use that expression again. It's kind of like a little, it's like a little cheeky smile with a little scowl.
And she's wearing a... It's like a wink, yeah. Yeah, it's like a kind of wink, but like turning your nose up a little bit, but a little smirk. And she's wearing a beanie...
And she's got a massive needle. And she's written, when the needle's bigger than your face and you're pretty sure the contents will glow if you turn off the light. That needle's massive, but she looks like she's in a hospital in that picture. What's that needle? Yeah, so that came on the heels of the Keytruda post where she's holding the little vial. So she was basically setting up how she got sent the medication. They let her do it at home. So she was going to be self-injecting the Keytruda at home. So that's actually in her bathroom.
Oh, that's clever because to me that passes as a hospital. Yeah, no, that's the bathroom. And I confirm that with Jessa as well. If you look, I asked a couple of nurse oncologists, that's not a needle. That's more of a, you know, a plunger like that pushes out medication. It doesn't have an actual sharp needle.
needle on the end of it. It has like almost like a syringe. So you would push the medication out of that. So she's calling it a needle. But yeah, getting a needle is a little more difficult than just getting one of those. And then there's pictures of her arms. Well, there's pictures of arms with like lots of red marks on them and bruises as well. And there's another picture of her. You know, she looks like she's got her
or nightwear on. Yeah, hospital gown. Hospital gown. And she's pictured in a hospital room next to lots of machines and tubes. But she's actually in a hospital. So again, it's the same question of, you know, that looks like she's... Like an emergency room, yeah. I did a lot, those type of things when she did that, I did a lot of calling around and asking about hospital gowns to see, because most hospitals stock hospital
very specific hospital gowns and stuff. So, you know, she would say, oh, I'm at this particular hospital and I would call and ask, gee, do your hospitals, are they gray? Are they this color? Are they that color? And that was a way to verify too that a lot of times she's like, here I am and such and such and that's just not a gown they use there. I know that sounds silly, but things like that. What made you think of doing that? What made you think of checking the gowns? Well, because I realized that in a lot of the situations, I saw repetitiveness of people
or at least environments or where you would zoom in in the background and it would show like an EKG as opposed to her saying it was for something cancer related and not like, you know, I just got in the habit of zooming past her or looking at specific things. I was like, okay, what can a hospital verify? Well, they know what their gowns look like or what their surgery centers use and things like that. Amanda Wilson. It wasn't always 100%, but that's kind of the fun part of looking. Yeah. Yeah.
And Amanda also discusses bringing Nerf guns to oncology and having a Nerf fight with the doctors and nurses. I'm going to read what she wrote on the blog. It says, to lighten the tension and mood, I brought Nerf guns to the oncology wing last week and we made the doctors and nurses our targets. It was super fun. They were good sports.
We figured if they get to shoot us, brackets, with meds, brackets, all the time, we could get a little payback. Out of patient privacy, I won't post pictures, so you'll have to let your imagination run wild. Did she have a nerve fight in hospital? No, no. How did you verify that? I called. I called the different oncology wings at several different hospitals. I think she mentioned the one...
Did she mention it in that one? I don't know. But in one of the other ones, you know, she was going to a particular place. So I called around and I asked the oncology departments. I said, hey, this is going to sound strange. Did you guys... Did someone come with a... I mean, like, it's just a silliness of a post. Did someone come with a... Oh, a Nerf gun. Did they have fun? Were they jumping around with the doctors or, you know... I think it was probably called foreplays, you know, because they're in the same area where she was from. They're like, what are you... No, no, no. Like, so...
They didn't know why I was calling. I just was just a random person asking. So, yeah, a lot of things like that. And then the last one we wanted to talk about is a picture of a group of people. And it's actually a cancer support group called Healthy Young Attitude. And Amanda has a shaved head in this picture.
And, you know, she's just saying on her post, you know, a Friday shout out to a healthy young attitude and gratitude Friday. So much discussion came out of our evening together. Stay tuned for updates. You know, I don't want to make light of this because not that we're making anything light of it, but actually like somebody came in to a cancer support group who didn't have cancer. And, you know, looking at this picture,
There's a group of, how many would you say is in that picture? Around 15, say. And, you know, people, really not very well. Yeah, yeah. And she's, you know, beaming. She's smiling away, you know. She posted about it. They posted about it. She actually went to support groups and sat there with people that had cancer. Yeah, I mean, I have photos of her that she posted of her in New York at one as well. How did she do that?
How does somebody do that? I think, you know, besides just physically walking in and introducing yourself and being a part of it, that's all you have to do, right? So I also think that was a way of learning a lot about true cancer survivors and how they are, what they talk about, what they endure, what they go through. So she may have taken some of those people's stories then and then used them as her own.
Yeah. I mean, what, you know, as horrific as that sounds, what better way? And even in, you know, when they, when federal agents filed the case against her, one of the things they put in there was that, you know, members of support groups had contacted them about her being part of the group and spending time with them and spending their last hours, family, you know, she infiltrated these groups. And just when you said then people spending their last hours...
Yeah, that was put in the indictment. These blog posts that we chose for a reason are actually reflected in the transcripts of your court case. And when I say your court case, it was Amanda who took you to court. Yes. And tried to get a restraining order against you because you were... I was a problem. You were a problem in her side and...
She kind of saw you as the enemy and called you the enemy, and you're the reason why this has all happened to her, according to her. So in these transcripts, can you explain to us a little bit, I know we talked about it in the series, but what that court case was like? I mean, she took you to court, you had to go and stand in court, and she tried to ruin your credibility. Yes, so the...
She filed for civil harassment, which you, for us, we had to go in front, I had to go in front of a judge for a hearing. So it was a two-day hearing after about six months of whatever she, you know, delays and everything. And... Yeah, and you had to go and stand in court. Yep. And testify and be under oath as well as so did she and Corey, her husband. You know, we didn't know what to expect from the judge. So yeah, there's this...
knots in your stomach feeling while you're waiting. And what did the judge rule? The judge said, found there's no reason for me to be restrained and that nothing was granted. There was no restraining order. So we've got, I mean, there's a 200-page document
of transcripts. Yeah, that's one day. The second day was about the same, yes. Yeah, so 400 pages of transcripts in total. So we pulled a couple that I would love you to talk about because this transcript we've got in front of us is Amanda speaking under oath about her treatments in New York. And she's so specific. And that's one of the things we noticed about her blog that we just talked about. Everything's so specific and so detailed. Yeah.
you know she says here the main place that I was treated was the center for lymphode oh my gosh I can't even say that word oh malignancies thank you um so then she was questioned saying so you're providing quite a bit of detail about exactly what's going on with you here right and Amanda says yes I wanted to be transparent for other cancer patients to help them she was questioned all right and you talk about after the surgery actually having to be put in the CCU she answers I
I think that's supposed to be ICU, but yes, obviously intensive care. And she talks about because of flu, she's asked questions about lungs, her lungs caused inflammation during the surgery. And she's like, yes. And there's just so much detail in this transcript. Yes, you might turn her, tick her through, you know, the severity of her treatment and reaction to the treatment. And she says that she explains here in this transcript, which is why I want to pull it up, about her blog.
So she says, I agreed to a blog account for my cancer blog to try and help other cancer patients since being a young adult with cancer is not common. And I had a really hard time when I was diagnosed getting help and finding resources. And so I wanted to just be a listening ear, just a helping hand to kind of explain my experience. Just to remind everyone, this isn't a blog post. This is her saying this under oath in court. Yes.
Then the next transcript is her husband, Corey, because Corey was actually there too and testified in court against you. Correct, because there was allegations, so there was a whole bunch of stuff we took him through, him discussing. Yes. This is Amanda's attorney questioning Corey. Have you attended treatments with your wife? Yes. How many years have you been attending treatments with her?
We can't really say too much because Amanda was convicted for wire fraud and Corey wasn't. So we have to make sure we say that.
He stood under oath and said that he'd been attending treatments with Amanda since her first, the first one was born for five years now at that time. Yeah, it's been over five years now. Yeah, well, he testified under oath. So I guess that was the truth, that he had been by her side at cancer treatments for over five years.
Well, thank you so much for listening, everyone. Thanks again, Nancy. We've got another little surprise for everyone as well coming up in our next bonus episode. Before we close, I want to leave listeners with this quote. Live like you will die tomorrow. Learn like you will live forever. That quote is by Amanda from her school yearbook. Her senior portrait, senior year. Her senior portrait. Senior yearbook. What's that age roughly?
That was 17, right before she went off to college. Thank you, Nancy. Thank you. I hope this helps everyone listening and understand it a little better. Thanks so much for listening. Hope you enjoyed this bonus episode. Thanks again for all your support, for listening and for all your rates and reviews. We're really grateful and we really appreciate it. Scamander is hosted and produced by me, Charlie Webster and produced by Jackson McLennan.
Edit and theme music by Nico Pallella. Assistant producer, Casey Hertz. Assistant editor, Seema Grewal. Additional production support from Stephen Sletten, Will Hagel and Nicole Urban. Executive produced by me, Charlie Webster and Nancy Moscatello. Scamander is a Lionsgate Sound production engineered by Pilgrim Media Group.
