The Garden
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I'm John Walczak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world.

In 2001, police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode before escaping into the wilderness. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. Join me. I'm going down in the cave. As I track down clues. I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Hunting. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Robert Fisher. Do you recognize my voice? Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, the host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Previously on Number One Dad. It may have been the greatest scam for a sports fan, posing as a Sports Illustrated kids reporter with your dad and getting into all of the games, not to mention the locker rooms.

It didn't matter where we were. He would turn himself into whatever character he needed to be. We could walk into a Greek restaurant and all of a sudden he'd have a Greek accent. He speaks French. And, you know, who knew? His personality is unbelievable. He had met Obama, but the way he would explain it was that he had a tight relationship.

with him. There were moments where Manny would assume the role of undercover police officer. He actually represented me in quotations, represented me. He's posing as my attorney in a court. You cannot control him. Don't

underestimate the power of what could happen. You're giving me a goosebumps, man, because you sound just like me. I remember your dad, he said, you're not going to believe this, but Gary is climbing up the ladder in America's Got Talent. And he was happy, he was proud. He used to love taking you to games. Now, how he got you to those games might have been different than how you'll take Sullivan to see NHL games or NBA games. But the joy that you're going to have with Sullivan

is the joy he had with you. You go to any hockey games? Every once in a while. I still like the garden. It's awesome. Have you ever gone back? No. You've never gone back? The last time I was with you, it was at the Ranger game. It was the last time I was ever there. I am on my way to New York City to Madison Square Garden. I'm going to be seeing a Rangers game with my dad. I can't believe I just said that, but...

He and I are going to see a Rangers game together. We are going to be sitting together. That's something we never did before. We have tickets. That's also something that never happened before when we go to the garden. But, I mean, this podcast has brought up so many different emotions. But going to this game, I feel...

brings everything full circle and this is something that meant so much to me growing up and it's one of my favorite memories as a kid going to the garden with my dad. I don't know how I'll actually feel when I'm there but I'm gonna try and cherish this moment. This is Number One Dad.

After I found parking, I walked to the meeting spot and saw my father right outside Madison Square Garden, standing on the corner of 7th Avenue and 31st Street. He was early, and he had a big smile on his face. You excited to go to the game? I'm happy to be with you. Game doesn't mean as much as spending time with you. Come over here. I'll show him my pass. Here, we got tickets. We don't need a pass. No, no. We got tickets. I want the shortcut getting in. Come here.

We have actual access. We don't need to jump lines, jump ropes. Everything's good. We got legitimate tickets this time. Yeah, but it's no fun when you come in legally. My dad saying it's no fun to come in legally is quintessential him. It was a quick, funny line from my father, but also one of the most illuminating things he'd ever said. Breaking the rules for him was more than a compulsion. It was a rush.

My dad made it a point in his life to always be at the front of the line. In his mind, that's where he belongs. And in this case, he was trying to cut the general admission ticket line with a fake VIP pass he had laminated from one of his previous scams. And it worked. Oh, by the way, the line had five people on it.

As we approached the metal detectors, my dad said hello to the security guards, just like he did back in the day. Hey, how you doing, my man? Okay, good. Good to see you. How are you? Of course, my father had to walk through the metal detectors several times because they kept going off. Okay. Step back out, sir. Gary, just take this off for me. Oh, yeah, I got it. Here. Good bet for the guys who...

Finally, after going in and out of the metal detector and pulling different items out of his pockets, the security guard eventually took out his wand and my dad was able to get through. Gentlemen, you're great. Thank you. So what do you think about the security here? You think it's good? I think it's pretty good, yeah.

- Well, I mean, it sounds like you brought in a bomb. - No, no, I didn't. - So you gotta say hi to everybody, huh? Let everybody know the business? - Yeah, well, it's all a matter of confusing people. - Yeah. - And that's how I get away with most of my bullshit. I like to make my face known. - Oh yeah? - Oh yeah. - Well, I don't think that guy's forgetting you.

This is the stuff that used to drive me insane as a kid. But after everything I've been through doing this podcast, I've turned a corner. This is who my dad is. And for tonight, at least, I'm going to try and enjoy it. So when was the last time you were at the garden with you? I'm going to say probably about 96. Yeah, 96. 96. That's when I think it was the last time we went together. Well, my phone is ringing, I think. Hold on.

- What? - My brother. Hello? Yeah, hi, what's the matter, Mike? Tom goes to court tomorrow? Uh-huh. Okay, good night, bye-bye. That's your uncle? - Yeah. What'd he want? - Breaking my balls. - About what? - I sued somebody. - Yeah. - And he wanted to remind me they're going to court tomorrow.

do i want to be there and the answer is no i don't know i don't need to be there yeah i'm soon then right right it's crazy how when you're with my father he never gets a normal phone call it's always about a lawsuit it must be so exhausting for him that this is how he's lived for decades but i guess that's the only way he knows how to do things what do you think of the good seats huh wonderful

Remember where he sat during the Stanley Cup? Or where you took pictures? I was down there. Yeah. And then, you remember me walking out on the ice? Yeah. Yeah, I did. I might even have pictures. Because I went out on the ice with my camera. And you know, if I have my camera, I'm taking pictures. Is this kind of how you remember it? The garden? No. It's so much better.

It's really grand. The reverence my father and I share for Madison Square Garden is one of the few things we are able to see eye to eye on. When you walk in, you instantly get goosebumps. As we sat in our seats, my father couldn't help but reminisce and gloat about our history in the world's most famous arena. You remember you were at the garden and you went out and you came back and you had a stuffed animal?

I do. I was going to tell you, when you said where you were sitting, because we wouldn't sit together, I walked around and I didn't have enough money to buy a stuffed animal. And then the guy behind me in line, he's like, for this kid, it was game one of the Stanley Cup. I was walking around the garden by myself. I know. I got that stuffed animal. How did you remember that?

I remember a lot of things. Yeah. And you came back and you said some guy bought it and I was a little upset. I don't want you talking to strangers. Yeah, you were letting me walk around the garden as a 10-year-old by myself. You were going to do whatever you wanted to do anyway.

I was definitely surprised to hear my father say he remembered how a stranger bought me a teddy bear at game one of the Stanley Cup finals back in 1994. Even more shocking to me was him saying he didn't want me talking to strangers. Well, if he really felt that way, maybe he shouldn't have left his kid by himself in an arena with 18,000 people. ♪

I'm John Walczak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI.

In 2001, police say I killed my family. First mom, then the kids. And rigged my house to explode. In a quiet suburb. This is the Beverly Hills of the Valley. Before escaping into the wilderness. There was sleet and hail and snow coming down. They found my wife's SUV. Right on the reservation boundary. And my dog flew. All I could think of is him and the sniper me out of some tree.

But not me. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. For two years. They won't tell you anything. I've traveled the nation. I'm going down in the cave. Tracking down clues. They were thinking that I picked him up and took him somewhere. If you keep asking me this, I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Searching for Robert Fisher. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.

Do you recognize my voice? Join an exploding house, the hunt, family annihilation today, and a disappearing act. Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Stories about regaining a sense of safety, a handle on reality after your entire world is flipped upside down.

From unbelievable romantic betrayals... The love that was so real for me was always just a game for him. To betrayals in your own family... When I think about my dad, oh, well, he is a sociopath. Financial betrayal...

This is not even the part where he steals millions of dollars. And life or death deceptions. She's practicing how she's going to cry when the police calls her after they kill me. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The podium is back with fresh angles and deep dives into Olympic and Paralympic stories you know, and those you'll be hard-pressed to forget. I did something in '88 that hasn't been beaten. Oh gosh, the US Olympic Trials is the hardest and most competitive meet in the world. We are athletes, we're going out there smashing into each other full force.

Listen to The Podium on the iHeart app or your favorite podcast platform weekly and every day during the games to hear the Olympics like you've never quite heard them before. What does a magician do? He distracts you, right? That's what I did with the gods. I was distracting them the whole time. Remember how my dad went in and out of the metal detector when we were entering the garden? I found out why.

So what is that? It's something that you can get on a plane with or you get locked up. The object my dad pulled out of his pocket was a six-inch switchblade. The whole time he was going in and out of the metal detector and talking with security confused them enough they completely missed the knife. See, look at this. Oh, shit. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, you can't go out and play with that. No, but I could get for his security. Yeah, MSG. You saw me do that, right? Yeah, that's crazy. No, it's how I present myself and what my plan is. Yeah. To confuse them. When I go home on the train, I have this with me. If somebody fucked with me... Yeah.

I'm gonna stab him in one place, in the leg. And if he's got his hands around my neck and I'm gonna not maybe get out, I go right for the groin. - Right. - Right there. You know why? - Artery? - The main artery is there. You cut that, he'll bleed to death before the cops come. - Yeah. The guy's like, "I was just gonna ask your directions, man. You had to stab me in the groin."

The puck was about to drop and my father started chatting up the two finance bros sitting next to us, bragging about my celebrity status. - It's my son, he's a famous comedian. Last time I brought him here, I brought him here to the Stanley Cup. - No, let them watch. Why do you need to talk to them? - Listen, the minute I left the house, every day, if I don't scam something, is a bad day.

What an insane way to live your life. But that's my dad. Following a path of honesty and integrity never was of any interest to him. You want me to try to make a fake ID up like that for you? You like this? Let me see that. Um, I don't think I need a fake ID. You know, just a seven-year-old father asking his 37-year-old son if he wants a fake ID. Nothing strange here.

Do you remember when you came up with the idea to go to games using Sports Illustrated? Yeah, because you used to tell me you wanted to meet different people. And I said, how am I going to do this for him? That takes money. Yeah.

Scamming our way into the garden was obviously deceitful and illegal. But it was also the only way my dad saw to give his sports crazed kid a chance to meet his heroes. And now that I'm a father, while I might not do the same thing, I completely understand why he did.

Maybe it was the atmosphere, I don't know. I found myself letting my guard down around my father. His charm was working. Which, funny enough, is exactly what my friend Sam Morrell said would happen at the beginning of this whole thing. With a few minutes to go in the first period, I got up to go to the bathroom. And I gave Sam a call to tell him what was going on.

Hey, buddy. How's it going? I am calling you from the bathroom at Madison Square Garden. I'm at a Ranger game with my dad. Oh, boy. How they doing? Guy who only cares about the game. How are the Rangers doing?

The game's going alright and so far it's going alright with my dad too. Did you sneak in or did you buy tickets this time? No, this time we bought tickets and I tell you, he definitely wishes that we snuck in, I could tell. I feel like he's gonna need to like, you know, rip off like a hot dog vendor or something now just to scratch the itch. Yeah, I mean, the first thing he said, he was like, I liked it a lot more when we were scamming our way in. Yeah, it's like taking Danny Ocean to a casino just to like play blackjack.

Yeah, exactly. Well, is this at least enjoyable or is it just weird? I'm kind of in the mindset where this is me and my dad and we're at a game together and, you know, just trying to enjoy it for what it's worth. But it's got to be tough. I mean, there's a reason people that actually fought in the Civil War didn't do Civil War reenactments. You know, I mean, it's like this is your actual life and you're just trying to recreate it into something that was better and more healthy. Right.

I never thought of it that way. Now I feel worse. Thanks, pal. Well, that wasn't my intention. I'm just saying, like, sometimes it's like you're trying to stick a square peg into a round hole. It's like this isn't your relationship with him, and you're just going to try to make it that way.

this many years later I don't know I'm not trying to I'm not trying to judge him just saying it must be difficult no it is it's difficult and I don't know where things are going to go from here but you know just taking it you know little by little yeah well that's all you can do you have to see if he's up for a new kind of relationship right yeah I mean hey don't get me wrong I'd rather be at the game with you we'll make it happen more more Rangers games

While I was on the phone with Sam, my dad's mic was still rolling, and he couldn't help himself from boasting about me to the two finance guys I told him to leave alone. If I'm being honest, it was nice to hear. He has a show in Vegas, comedy seller...

Gary Veeder. Let's Google him and do AGT, America's Got Talent. Howard Stern loves him. Howard Mandel, they love him. I got to tell you, you watch him, you'll laugh your balls off. I guarantee it. You taught him everything he knows, right? What I taught him is how to get into a game like this for free. That's what I taught him. When I got back from the bathroom, I saw my dad chatting these guys up.

He was bragging about our Sports Illustrated scam. I didn't mind. My dad was truly enjoying the experience. And honestly, it was nice to look back on our past accomplishments.

Hey. Hey. What'd you tell him? He wrote a story about me. Show him this picture. My father then pulls out his phone to show the Sports Illustrated article I wrote. Sorry. Yeah, Marilyn Mew, gear, city girl. I don't fuck around. How'd you pull the cord? I pull all this shit. Basketball game. You know what a sleight of hand is, right? Yeah. I do sleight of mind.

That's him. And that's Nancy Kerrigan. I told you, he's skating with us. Finally, my dad left those guys alone, and we tried to act like a normal father and son. I'm John Walczak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. Oh, my God.

In 2001, police say I killed my family. First mom, then the kids. And rigged my house to explode. In a quiet suburb. This is the Beverly Hills of the Valley. Before escaping into the wilderness. There was sleet and hail and snow coming down. They found my wife's SUV. Right on the reservation boundary. And my dog flew. All I could think of is him and the sniper me out of some tree.

But not me. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. For two years. They won't tell you anything. I've traveled the nation. I'm going down in the cave. Tracking down clues. They were thinking that I picked him up and took him somewhere. If you keep asking me this, I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Searching for Robert Fisher. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.

Do you recognize my voice? Join an exploding house, the hunt, family annihilation today, and a disappearing act. Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Stories about regaining a sense of safety, a handle on reality after your entire world is flipped upside down.

From unbelievable romantic betrayals... The love that was so real for me was always just a game for him. To betrayals in your own family... When I think about my dad, oh, well, he is a sociopath. Financial betrayal...

This is not even the part where he steals millions of dollars. And life or death deceptions. She's practicing how she's going to cry when the police calls her after they kill me. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The podium is back with fresh angles and deep dives into Olympic and Paralympic stories you know, and those you'll be hard-pressed to forget. I did something in '88 that hasn't been beaten. Oh, gosh. The US Olympic Trials is the hardest and most competitive meet in the world. We are athletes. We're going out there smashing into each other full force.

Listen to The Podium on the iHeart app or your favorite podcast platform weekly and every day during the games to hear the Olympics like you've never quite heard them before. Was there anybody we ever met that you were happy to meet yourself? Michael Jordan, I think. Yeah? Yeah, that was pretty cool. What did my mom think about us going to the games? I think that mom knew that I was...

a good con man. And she didn't want you to learn those things. You have to understand something. Grandma and Grandpa went through the Holocaust.

And the people that came home were the ones who figured out how to survive. Whether it was to get a little extra piece of bread. And that was my mentality. Is to be able to do something. Believe me, you don't know half the shit that I've done. It was. It was.

A lot I can't talk about. My father has been pretty forthcoming with everything I wanted to know so far, but what are the things he can't talk about? Are there scams bigger than the ones I already know?

Since I started this podcast, I learned my dad schemed his way into meeting Obama, Trump, and Biden. That he rubbed elbows with the former head of the New Jersey mob and mixed it up with Supreme, one of the biggest drug kingpins in New York. I also learned about his many businesses that went south due to his cons. But what is he keeping secret? Did I only scratch the surface of who my father really is? There'll never be another Gretzky, I don't think, huh?

I mean, it's different. They're really good players now. Some guys are really good. It's just a different era, you know? So, like, there's not gonna be another Michael Jordan, but LeBron James is pretty good.

I used to date LeBron James' attorney. Oh yeah? Debra's s***. He lived in Ohio. So that's new information to me. My dad dated LeBron James' attorney. So, Debra's s***, if you're out there, I'm sorry you had to endure a date with my father. And I hope when you went out for dinner, he didn't stick you with the bill. Before any scams, nobody ever was like, hey, I'm gonna throw you in the back of a trunk.

I saw you get thrown out of a restaurant. You talking about the diner? Yeah, the diner. You got thrown out of the restaurant. Well, I told the guy that was fucking blasting a thing, and he told me, you don't like it? Get the fuck out of here. So I said, fuck you. And then him and his brother both came out, and his brother grabbed me behind my neck.

That's when I decided when that happens again, the only thing I do is go after somebody's eyeball. If you stick your thumb in somebody's eye, it's very painful. And if you do it right, you can pop it right out. And it'll hang right here. Yeah.

Not only am I reconnecting with my father, I'm also learning this guy's got a real action hero fantasy thing going on in his mind. Stabbing guys in the balls on the Long Island Railroad, thumbing eyeballs out at diners. Yeah, he might be an out-of-shape 70-year-old Jewish guy, but in his head, he's John Wick. Oh! Oh!

At the beginning of the third period, the Rangers scored and took a 1-0 lead. My dad and I both jumped up from our seats and high-fived. It felt natural. And in that moment, it felt like I had a dad. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to take a leak. After the goal, my dad went to the bathroom. And when he came back to our seats, he came bearing a gift.

It was a bobblehead. I guess he was trying to make up for that teddy bear back in 1994. What's that? A bobblehead? Oh, you got one? You pay for this bobblehead? No. You crazy? I'll give it to Sullivan. That's who I want you to give it to. You know, I walked by this, but I didn't get it. But I figured that you would probably get it next time you walked by. Did you really think that? Yeah, I did think that. I guess you were right, huh? Yeah. Thank you.

It's okay. Just think of all the money I saved all these years by not seeing you. Yeah, exactly.

I'm happy for you. You know, I'm very proud of you. I tell everybody about you. Hearing my dad say he's proud of me while we're at Madison Square Garden takes on a whole different meaning for me. I know he's a guy who tells one lie after another, but in this moment, I'd like to believe he was being completely truthful. There was a movie with Robert De Niro. Yeah. And...

He goes into a movie theater. Cape Fear. Cape Fear. Yeah. Do you remember what he did in that movie? He's just laughing, right? Yeah. I was going to do that at one of your shows. That would be psychotic. I know, but I was going to do that to you. But then I decided, nah, I better not. Leave it to my dad. One moment he's telling me he's proud of me. The next he's telling me he was going to heckle me Cape Fear style at one of my shows.

You had a good time? Great time. Thank you so much for the... I want to know what you paid for the tickets. God, don't worry about it. At around 10 o'clock after a Rangers victory, my dad and I made our way out of MSG. And the weirdest part was, it all started to feel kind of normal. All I ever wanted was a normal childhood. And today, 30 some odd years later, I got a taste of it.

I know how lucky I was as a kid, a sports obsessed boy from Long Island getting to sit inches away from his favorite athletes, even meeting most of them at the most prestigious arena in the country. But looking back, I would trade it all for a few games in the nosebleeds if it meant I could have a regular dad. I went into this podcast searching for who my father was and to find out whether or not in the 24 years since I'd seen him, he'd change.

Maybe he evolved, re-evaluated his past mistakes, and charted a new path for himself. Well, I could confidently say he hasn't. He's a bit older, a bit slower, but he's still the same con man bullshitting his way through life. And it's taken me going through this whole process to realize

I'm okay with that. Turns out, I'm the one who changed. I've let go of the anger, the hate, the resentment, or at least enough of it for the two of us to catch a game at the garden. If I'm being honest, I have no idea what our relationship is going to look like going forward. But I don't have any regrets about seeing my father again. As the great Michael Jordan once said,

It's better to shoot and miss than to let time run out and wonder what if. Well, it was a great game, man. Yeah, good game. Yeah, give me a call. Don't make me wait 24 years. Number One Dad is a production of Radio Point, Big Money Players Network, and iHeart Podcast. Created and hosted by Gary Veeder. Executive producers are Gary Veeder, Adam Lowett, Alex Bach, Daniel Powell, Houston Snyder, Kenneth Slotnick, and Brian Stern.

Written by Gary Veeder and Adam Lowit. Produced by Bernie Kaminsky. Co-producer is Taylor Kowalski. Edited and mixed by Ian Sorrentino at Little Bear Audio. Recording engineer is Kat Iosa. Original music by Andrew Gross. Special thanks to Charlotte DeAnda. Jonathan Karsh is creative consultant. Executive producers for Big Money Players Network and iHeart Podcast are Will Farrell, Hans Sani, and Olivia Aguilar.

Sound services were provided by Great City Post. Am I doing the right thing with my finances? Am I saving enough? Can I buy a house? Am I paying too much in taxes? Will I be able to retire? Putting a financial plan together feels impossible. What if I told you there was another way? Take FACET's free financial wellness quiz to get your score and a snapshot of your current financial health. Visit FACET.com now and discover your financial wellness score today. That's F-A-C-E-T.com.

This ad is sponsored by Facet. Facet Wealth Incorporated is an SEC-registered investment advisor. This is not an offer to buy or sell securities, nor is it investment, legal, or tax advice. Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, the host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind.

Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Walzak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. Oh my God.

In 2001, police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode before escaping into the wilderness. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. Join me. I'm going down in the cave. As I track down clues. I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Hunting. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Robert Fisher. Do you recognize my voice? Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.