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All right, gentlemen, coming to main stage next, this is Bunny. Get up there. She's got a tornado of titties coming your way. Get those dollar bills ready. She's got an ass that shakes like Michael J. Fox. So get up there and throw, throw, throw them dollars. Dude, that is fucking iconic. What's up, you sexy motherfuckers? Welcome to another episode of Dumb Blonde. Today, I'm so excited for my guests. I have porn royalty sitting on my couch right now. Joanna Angel, small hands, especially.
Aaron, sorry. Either one's fine. Either one. How are you guys doing? Doing good. Doing pretty good. Just got in from New York and it's a lot nicer weather here. What's the weather in New York right now? Winter is settling in. It's not crazy yet, but it's getting there. It's getting there.
Yeah, no. We had winter here for like a week, like a week and a half ago. And I was like ready to fucking just jump off a bridge because I hate it. Like as soon as it starts getting really fucking cold, I'm like, dude, fuck this. I am the same way. I love the cold. Do you? I love it. But like I like it when it's nice cold. I feel like in New York right now, it's like cozy sweater weather, which is my favorite. Then in like January, it's going to be like ugly cold is what I call it. There's like nice cold. Violent cold.
Pretty cold and ugly cold, yes. The cold that slaps you in the face. But honestly, you know, we were in L.A. for a long time. I was in L.A. for way too long. I missed seasons. I missed winter. Yeah.
So I'm enjoying it. But I realize I'm in the minority because everybody else hates it. I feel like you're either a spring and fall person or like a winter and summer person. Like there's no in between. Do you like summertime and wintertime? I'm from Southern California, so it's all one season for me.
That's why I'm really getting used to all the, yeah, seeing the other game, yeah. - Yeah, totally. - Yeah, there's only one season. - So it just kind of exists. - Joanna, did you grow up in New York? Where were you from? - So I grew up in New Jersey. I grew up in New Jersey.
I'm one of those people that grew up in Jersey and would tell everyone I was from New York. Yeah. I feel like everybody does that, though. Everybody does that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You start to say that. But yeah, I grew up in Jersey, and then I lived in Brooklyn, and then I wound up moving to LA, and now I'm back in Brooklyn. So yeah, it's been a journey. Growing up, how was your childhood? Let's talk about that. I know. It's very like, whew. Yeah.
Let's see. She's like, which part? I know, which part? You know, like childhood. Childhood? Like what age childhood are we talking about? Like, you know, just... From zero to 18? Yeah, let's go. Let's go, baby. Let's dissect. Because that's what my podcast is really all about. I like to paint a picture of everybody, like all the shit we've really gone through, all the traumas and shit, all the tribulations and trials that have made us the people that we are today, dude. Okay. We're all underdog stories. I think...
you know, where to begin. So my mother is from Israel and,
um so she you know so I guess I'm a first generation American so I do you know growing up and I'm um the first you know first so I'm the oldest in the family um how many siblings do you I have two siblings I have two younger siblings one one sibling is 18 months younger than me so my middle sister and then my youngest sister is uh six about six years younger than me so I grew up I you know a lot of my early early childhood memories is with my sister who was 18 months
you know, younger than me. And it was kind of like,
you know, my dad was at work all the time. I mean, my parents were, you know, boomers, you know, I guess I'm like, well, me and you are the same age. So we're like at the very, very end of the millennial spectrum. Right. So yeah, with my mother being from Israel, she really didn't speak much English at all. You know, like she moved here for my dad. My dad was at work all the time, you know, and when we were growing up, so yeah,
I definitely had to do a lot of like figuring out the world and being, you know, the first sibling, like figuring out the world. Yeah. On your own, on my own kind of, you know, like I think a lot of first generation Americans have, have something in common, like, um, which is kind of, you know, we become a little bit, uh, uh,
bossy I guess because it's like when you're growing up with a parent who kind of doesn't understand how to like read things in the supermarket or doesn't understand how to read street signs and stuff like that and you're telling them at such a young age like no mom it's not this it's this like I you become the kind of American traditions and she didn't so I was kind of like navigating her and showing her what to do it makes you kind of like
A bit of a bossy person. You're a Capricorn though too, right? I'm such a Capricorn. So you're a boss by nature. I'm a Capricorn. Are you? Yeah, January 22nd. Oh my God. I'm right on the cusp. There's not a lot of Capricorns. There's not. There's not, right? No, I love it. But we're right there with Dolly. Dolly Parton's a Capricorn. Did you know that? Really? I didn't know. That makes so much sense. Yeah, no, she's a boss ass bitch. Exactly. We love that Capricorn woman fucking boss bitch. That makes everything make sense now. I'm so glad I know that. You're a born leader no matter what.
what whether you liked it or not exactly um so so I'd have to say you know just a lot of like um figuring stuff out you know on my own I didn't have that like like I would get you know kind of like jealous of the friends I had with their mom would like kind of teach them how to dress you know like like take them to cool concerts or you know or do this or do that I kind of like did just a lot of like navigating on my own um uh whatever and then there was my
younger sister who I, you know, a lot of my early memories are me and her together. I was actually like pretty mean to her, which is really awful. But, you know, I make jokes about it now. I think that's a normal sister rivalry. Yeah, yeah. And I think I used to... I remember growing up, my mom would always...
buy us like she'd have to buy us like equal toys you know what I mean like if she bought me something you'd have to buy her something too but anyway I um I remember I used to like like a psychopath I would put tape all over all of her dolls like in the middle of the night and
and my sister would wake up and be like, why is there tape all over my dolls? I'd be like, well, your dolls tried to hurt my dolls. You're drawn a line in the sand very early. And I had to protect them. Yeah, I had to protect them. So I would take masking tape and put them all over them. I'd be like, yeah, so I had to protect them. My sister would be like, oh my God, that really sucks. Yeah, let's put tape all over them. We can't help it.
I don't know why I remember this as a memory. That's awesome. This is what we're doing. But anyway, family, you know, I actually grew up pretty religious, you know, religious Jew. So like, which I guess now, now it's not, you know, cool to, I'm sorry, Kanye. I'm. Oh God. Fucking Kanye, man. I guess it's not good.
It's anti-Semitism is really in this season, I guess. Yeah. Maybe I shouldn't have said that out loud. No, you're fine. You're fine. We can say whatever we want on this podcast. Yeah. So when you say you grew up in a pretty religious, what do you mean? So we weren't like super extreme. Also, being a religious Jew is different than from what I've learned, you know, being a religious Jew.
a Catholic or Christian or, you know, I guess we were what you would call like modern Orthodox, but we didn't turn on lights and stuff on like Saturday, you know, every weekend is the Sabbath for Jews. So we would have like Friday night, like Shabbat dinner and, you know, and then we wouldn't like turn on lights and stuff, you know, we wouldn't drive a car. So I guess Friday nights and Saturdays were kind of like, you know, devoted to like religious stuff. And there was actually like,
Certain things about it that were like really beautiful, you know, and then there were certain things about it They were kind of bullshit. I mean as I got a little older I really hated it because I wanted to go out and party on Friday nights But you know, I had to like stay home and be religious or something. I think religion Breeds rebellion because I grew up in a strict Pentecostal house, right? So I mean the minute I could fucking flash my titties. I was ready
Yeah. I was like, here they are world. Let's go. Yeah, exactly. Um, so, you know, so we, we were religious, but it wasn't like, it's almost like the religion was like, turn on like to like volume 10 on like, you know, on the weekends from Friday night to Saturday night.
And then like on Jewish holidays. But like other than that, you know, we didn't feel like it was kind of part of our day to day life. I mean, we kept kosher. I don't know. It's just kind of different. Right. And it's a lifestyle really kind of. Yeah. Yeah. But I was still able to like.
When I was around people who weren't religious, it wasn't like super weird. You know what I mean? So I guess there was that. Were you close with your dad? You said that he works all the time. Okay, so I actually... You know, my dad was working a lot. I wasn't super close with my dad when I was younger. Yeah.
But we became a lot closer when I was older. He was just working on it. It's actually like it wasn't until I was older and I went through, you know, like I always say it with my sister and stuff. Now, like I have an amazing dad. He was just, you know, he was working. And I think I like learned to like really appreciate that more. Yeah. As I got older and, you know, I went through certain things that he was just like.
well, like there for me. So I, I don't think I really understood, but nobody understands when their parents are good parents when they're younger. You don't appreciate them until you're in your thirties. My mom, you know, she, she never really like I, in her heart, I know she really wanted to be a good mom and it's kind of sad because all she ever wanted to be her whole life was a mom. And you know, it's like she couldn't,
also my mom had like a whole lot of you know growing up in wars and stuff like that does you know yeah yeah um you know she didn't you know because she couldn't really assimilate with like american culture it was hard for her to really like right um you know and just certain things certain things that like moms are kind of supposed to do like at some point talk to your kids about about sex or talk to them about dating or talk to them you know like my mom just
She came from a culture of like, first of all, she grew up in a war. Both of her parents died when she was younger, you know, so she didn't really have anybody. She was just in survival mode. And then at a certain point, she was like, you know, it was kind of like her older brothers were like, oh, go like hang out and find an American guy to take you away.
So was it an arranged marriage? Did they have an arranged marriage? It wasn't an arranged marriage. No, I mean, they met, you know, my mom, seemed like my mom kind of hung around the American University in Israel waiting for someone to hit on her. She was poaching. Kind of, yeah. She was poaching for an American husband. And I guess it worked. So is your dad American? My dad is American, yeah. And he went to study in Israel for a year in college. He was actually like a Jewish history, like professor. So he was like very like,
I think he went there hoping to find an Israeli woman and she went there looking to find an American man. Perfect. And it just kind of, you know, kind of worked. I remember what I was saying before, but you were talking about how your mom was not shown how to be, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So she couldn't be that cool mom. Right. You know, so I kind of just had to like figure out, you know, a lot of shit just, you know,
On my own, you know? And, you know, I was the first child. So I was kind of like the, you know, I guess the leader of the family. Yeah, for sure. You know, which can be a great thing, but also a difficult thing. Because then when you're having issues, you don't really know who to turn to if you're like, if you're like...
If you're the boss. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, it's hard to sum up your whole childhood. Yeah, it is. In like a few sentences. But you know, I remember, you know, growing up, I do remember a lot of Jewish holidays. I do remember at a certain point, like when I was younger, younger, I was really like into being religious. And then at a certain point, God, I don't know.
if I'm going to be really honest, you know, when I stopped believing in God is when my first boyfriend dumped me. And I was like, this wouldn't have, if there was a God, this wouldn't have happened. So fuck you. I don't,
believe in God anymore because you messed with me and I did everything right and I think after that it was just good. How old were you when that happened? I started smoking cigarettes and going out on Friday nights and hanging out with bad kids. How old was I? I was in...
sixth grade. Yeah, that was my next question. How were you as a child, like growing up your junior high and high school years? Like, I mean, it's so, you know, like we, we were like the last generation of people to grow up without like cell phones and stuff like that. So it talks like the stone age, you know, like, I feel like I'm talking about like, yeah, like, like somebody talking about, you know, yeah, taking a horse and buggy, you know, but I love it because we have so much wisdom that these kids nowadays are never going to have,
yeah they didn't have to fucking drink out of water hoses they didn't have to fucking be home when the street lights were on like right it's just a whole different vibe all these kids nowadays are raised by cell phones if you were lost you were like really lost oh yeah there's no fucking gps like your parents would have to like call the policeman to like figure out where you were if you just went for a walk and didn't know i mean i can't like you know it's crazy um
But yeah. How were you in high school and like junior high? What was baby Joanna like? I'm going to say I was... So I think I was kind of like...
bossy and I don't know I imagined a lot I actually I wrote a lot of stories when I was like a kid kid I won all these like awards for like writing like weird ridiculous like stories and stuff I think I was kind of in my own like imaginary land it was your escape yeah so I do think I actually got like really depressed when like reality hit you know what I mean I think also I mean I've learned now I have been to like a lot of like therapy and stuff like that you know like kind of like like I was like
had my own, you know, I don't know, in my family, I was like very comfortable, like I said, because I was kind of, could kind of do whatever I want. And then, you know, going to school and like dealing with, you know, friends and I don't know, this and that. Like, I think, I think I was like not really sure how to navigate that.
The real world is also, I think that's when. Were you rebellious? Were you into drugs? I did. Yeah, I got I got into drugs. You know, I was kind of always looking for like the bad kids. I started to feel kind of lost. I mean, I went to a pretty like snobby high school school.
So I do think like not having this like picturesque family like everyone else had. Like I said, my mom didn't really speak much English. My dad wasn't around much. And, you know, my dad, like I love him to death. You know, he's like sort of like antisocial and I would like.
you know, it just seemed like it was the very typical, like all the girls and, you know, and guys who played sports, they were all hanging out with each other, the cheerleaders, the job, you know what I mean? And there was just this like community, there was like this big, you know, uh, from what it seemed like just very like functional, um, very like well raised, you know, people like community people that I just could not fit into. I did know that all the other mothers in the community thought that my mom was really strange.
You could kind of see it, you know, growing up, which is why I'm always like very sensitive to this day, like with how people treat like foreign people, because I'd see like people talk to my mom and they'd start yelling at her like like she was deaf. And I'm like, she's not deaf. She doesn't speak English. You can scream this sentence as loud as you want. You know what I mean? So a lot of people, they thought my mom was kind of strange. She was just, you know, had weird language.
you know, I remember we'd go to the like swim club that everybody would go to and all the kids would like laugh at my mom because she like didn't shave her armpits, you know, and like stuff like that. And like, and it made them not really want to be friends with you either. I can't really explain it. Kids are so fucking mean, dude.
kids are mean and you know we really grew up in an age where like now I feel like like anti-bullying is like just like a real thing like yeah it wasn't like that when we were younger you know like kids were just allowed to be mean no they were allowed to be mean and you either fought or fuck it it was like kill or be killed yeah yeah I think um I kind of wish kids were more like that nowadays I wish they would fucking just pop each other in the mouth and
get it over with. Yeah. I think maybe it might be too extreme. Not that I'm condoning violence or anything, but I just feel like this generation. I mean, I can't speak. I'm not a parent, so I don't really, I can't say like what method is better. I'm a step parent and they're mean as shit, dude. There's been so many times my stepdaughters came home and I've been like, pop her in her fucking mouth. She'll leave you alone, you know? And she's like, I can't do that. I'm just like,
Yeah, things have changed. Things have changed, yeah. Aaron, let's switch over to you real quick. Let's find out where you came from and how you were. So I have a different story than Joanna. I was born in San Diego, California, and my father was a preacher. Wow, I did not see that coming. I'm the son of a pastor, son of a preacher man.
And so I grew up very heavy in the Christian church, like six nights a week, go to youth group, feed the homeless. I was homeschooled for junior high. So I would just go to work with my dad and do my like homework in his office, um,
And I did not do drugs. I did not party. I did not drink. I was actually a model child. Now that I look back, I'm very confident. I got good grades. I went to church. I did all the... I was a good kid. You did everything you were told you were supposed to do. Well, I didn't do everything I was told. Right. But I was a very easy child to my parents. Right.
Do you have siblings? I have a younger brother and a younger sister, so I'm the oldest. What denomination was it that you grew up with? You know, wherever my dad could get a job. Sometimes Baptist, sometimes Evangelical, whatever. Oh gosh, it gets scary when you start switching denominations. Well, I mean, and what I've learned
ultimately from growing up and seeing it is it's all fucking same. Right. It's, it's so all the same. And like, there's like two little things that everyone wants to argue over and then they divide into their camps. And like, uh, I think that's a really good point to prove because everybody always, you know, tries to separate each religion and really it is all the same. It's, and not only, and this is now I'm just speaking of my opinion, not only is all this different subsects of Christianity the same, in my opinion, um,
All religion is basically the same. It's created by humans who no one can really track exactly when it started. There's no record of it. And some human was spoken to by a higher power. And now this human can control the population. Yes. So it's a way to keep humans in line, in my opinion. Fair, yeah.
And, uh, as soon as I basically got into high school and I got into punk rock, like that was kind of the thing that woke me up and was like, Oh, this is where I belong. This is my scene. Were you playing? Yeah. I was playing in bands since I was 15. I started touring. Um,
and I really was like Christian bands no no okay so your parents I did well I did start to be to be no they did not I had to see I was not allowed to watch movies unless it was rated g me too I was not allowed to listen to the radio we were also really poor so we didn't have the internet we didn't have cable tv yeah I had to type my fucking homework on a typewriter like a real typewriter that's crazy um yeah and yeah and well because what a lot of people don't realize is unless you're
preacher on TV, one of those mega pastors don't make any money. - Evangelists or whatever. - Your local community preacher in the neighborhood church with 100 people is not making any money. So we were very broke and very religious. - Oh my gosh, that's brutal. It's bringing me flashbacks back to my childhood. - So I do not have fond memories of my childhood. Most of them were at best
or excuse me, I actually have a lot of fond memories of growing up, but they were never involving my parents or my family. I would go find my people, my friends, and I would just, you know, make up lies and disappear and go stay at friends' houses. Were you not close to your family? No. Or it was just the religion? No, the household I grew up in was very much like a...
like a religious boarding school so there was not a lot of warmth there was not a lot of closeness um but there was a lot of rules and you were expected to follow them or you know fire and brimstone will come down on you yeah so it's extremely conservative extremely strict extremely christian and extremely cold i it was like so opposite when he first you know was meeting my family it used to be really i mean even still to this day it can be a little like
- It triggering, you know, for him, 'cause like we, no matter what, we really love each other. - The first time I attended one of her family, like, Thanksgivings, and I saw like 50 people all who loved each other and like wanted to be together, I was like-- - Or even if we're screaming at each other. - Yeah, 'cause also that was-- - We're all screaming at each other. It's with love or like if there's a problem, like, you know, when I did, which, you know, first get in the industry, of course there were issues with it, of course.
people were uncomfortable. We all just kind of yelled it out. - Right. - You know? - You guys communicated. - And figured it out and got, you know, and like with Aaron, there's so many issues in his family and everyone's just so quiet about it. - They're very cold. - Yeah, like I've even like, you know, I've hung out with certain family members of his and it's like, we're all just like acting like,
Like we're at a job interview or something and sometimes I feel like, can we address the elephant in the room? And like, you know what I mean? Like sometimes it's hard for me. You've probably been very healing for him in that aspect. I try to be like, understand, you know, I mean, fast forward, like family is always a strange thing to talk about because his dad, when we first, when we first got together, yeah, like his dad kind of,
you know, disowned him because of me. Yeah. But it was basically, I can't wait to tell your story. It hurts me to see how could anyone just like dump their child, their child? Like, like how do you, how, how do you do that? I've done so many awful things. Aaron is like a wonderful child.
I did so many shitty things and my parents didn't dump me. I mean, that's also the issue with this dedication to religion beyond all else. And it will... I mean, my father to his... The one thing I do weirdly respect is he never wavered. He never...
Changed his stance. He wouldn't he was all in he was all and he still is for I mean I haven't seen him in over a decade so I don't really know but It because of that we were never He would I invited him to our wedding because of that we never got to know each other's people and
That's kind of the part I miss. Or not miss, but... Well, your inner child needs that. Your inner child wants to be just loved. It's the part that bums me out the most. Yeah. Your inner child wants to be loved and wants to be nurtured. That little boy inside of you still is searching for that just relationship with his father, you know? Yeah. And her family has been phenomenal in showing me what a real family is. Yeah. And I'm really grateful to them.
That's just so hurtful. And I'm sorry that, you know, I can relate to a lot of your story. I ended up leaving home at 14 because my parents were, my parents went from being rock and rollers. My dad was in a band, secular music, fucking hoes, fucking doing drugs. Living the good life. To all of a sudden, literally just Bible thumping. I wasn't listening to secular music. Really? That's interesting.
Did he like find Jesus later in life or something? I think he just got caught with his pants down and had to make an extreme change. And that's exactly what happened to me. Like it became a boarding school. Like you said, like I had to practice piano, you know, an hour a day. If I didn't learn a song, I didn't go out to play. I was grounded 24 fucking seven. Like doors taken off the hinges, windows nailed shut. Like it was fucking crazy shit. Well, when his dad, so I get it pretty much. I don't know.
I don't know, broke up with him. I do remember the conversation and it felt like
Like he just got fired from a job. Like, well, you know, I looked over your application and you're not really meeting the criteria. And so we're just going to get you out. And I was so just like. And this is when you guys first got together. Basically, no. We had been. It was like two years. I wasn't even in the adult industry. I was just her boyfriend, a guy who played in a band. Yeah. So you got into music. So I was I was playing in music in high school and then in my sophomore.
college years I went and I got an associate's degree in graphic design and I was set to go to San Diego State for for another degree I guess and then my band got a record deal and we got on tour and I was like fuck school I'm gonna go be a rock star and I basically spent most of my early and mid 20s
playing in a band living the dream you know i was in a van with my best friends we were traveling all over the country how did your parents take that they didn't like it okay but they still let you go on tour and well once i was 18 i moved out immediately so they couldn't say shit and uh they they've never really been a fan of anything i've done unfortunately uh and so you start raking in the big bucks and then all of a sudden you're the golden even when i did they still don't
I mean, well, and to this day, I don't even know if my father knows I do porn because he disowned me just for being with her. Wow. Just that was enough for him. It was so hard for me because, you know, when we first got together, it was so important for me to meet his family because like I said, family is really important to me. And I was like, I really want to meet your family. And he's like, OK, you can't tell them what you do. And I was like, OK, fine.
And it wasn't because I was ashamed. It was because I wanted to, I wanted her to get a real chance. Right. And I, and my, I was like, you know what? I get it. It's weird. And, um, I usually like to wait till a few, a little while, you know, whatever. But I was like,
I'm going to get to know them and they're going to love me. And like, and they did. So by the time they find out, it won't even matter. That was sort of what I expected to happen. So basically you're on the road and you go from there. Oh, so, so yeah. So yeah, we haven't met yet at this point in my life. So I'm in my twenties. I'm,
You know, living the punk rock dream, playing in bands, touring, getting to see new cities. You know, you got the, we're going to get somewhere. We're going to be on the radio. We're going to this and that. And, you know, and then that man kind of broke up and I started a company in San Diego, a
So I owned for about seven years and operated at like a screen printing and like merchandise company because again I all I wanted to do is be in a band so I was like, okay Well, I still have to make money, right? What can I do that allows me to have a free schedule that doesn't have a dress code and I was like well I'll just fucking start my own business and print t-shirts for everyone else's bands. Still that tapping into your creative side. That DIY creative side So and I did all the design and it was it was a fun business to run but it made no money It was like and I'm a terrible business person
So that was part of it. Awful. Awful. Yeah. I'm all... You guys are like J.
Yeah, yeah. I got good hair and good tattoos and no business. We really are like... So anyway, so that was all happening. And meanwhile, Joanna's up in LA being big famous Joanna. Right. So let's cut your story right there and let's head back over to you, Joanna. We had left off on your high school years and stuff like that. When did you...
branch off and start going in the direction of porn was that so you know I went to uh college I did I went to college college was really where I like kind of thrived and found myself high school was pretty miserable um you know I never really I think also I you know I did I did uh which I
I could go into something else completely. I did grow up in a... It's like we were the poorest family in the rich neighborhood. You know what I mean? So like everyone was really wealthy in my...
high school. And I didn't fit in with anybody. Very snobby, you know, very like preppy, whatever. I just, I had a hard time, you know, finding myself and I couldn't really thrive as a person. Anyway, college was where, you know, there were a lot of people like me, you know, there was a really big, you know, punk scene. And I just really like got to really kind of find myself there and, you know, being able to have my own apartment.
my own apartment and I don't I felt like like I I really grew up belonged somewhere though yeah yeah and I was really able to kind of become someone or something or you know my it's like my personality was sort of hidden right all of like
elementary school and you know in college in high school it's kind of like what you want your parents want you to be like when you're growing up yeah but I knew I didn't want to be yeah and it was hard for me to even understand who my parents wanted me to be right so I think I was just really lost and I got really depressed and I just sort of gravitated towards anyone who like did drugs because that just seemed like the right thing to do
Anyway, college... It was always a good time, you know? Somehow I did get good grades throughout all that, but whatever. Anyway, so I really found myself in college. I had a lot of good times, really kind of explored being a writer, being... Whatever. I went through a lot of different phases of different things in college. But I mean, I guess I started Burning Angel my senior year of college. Were you always into...
no this was you know like i was never into porn so you didn't start out like a webcam girl or anything like no i mean that didn't even exist then you have to understand burning angel started in 2002 wow you know like this was there was not very much going on on the internet there wasn't a lot of women who were um running porn companies either back then it was all male dominated yeah um
I mean, it really, the shorter version of the story, which, you know, I know I've told it many times. I mean, I was starting to be like a little bit like, like, because that is the thing. You know, first of all, growing up in a family, we didn't talk about sex, you know? And, you know, being in the punk scene, like,
The punk scene is very expressive about a lot of things, but not sex. You know what I mean? I was like a pretty big... It's kind of angry. Yeah, yeah. It was like, you know, a very big time like activist, you know, and like whatever. But kind of like sex was just not a topic. Also like back in that time, like me and my friends that were girls, we were always like talking about bands and movies and this and that. Like we weren't... I didn't have like a group of girlfriends to like talk about sex with. Like it was kind of like...
this uncomfortable. Oh, you got to came and hung out with that with us. I know. I guess that's all we talked about. We grew up aspiring to be strippers. Right. Not till later in life. That was our life goal. I don't know what it was. You know, we would talk about music and movies and books and changing the world. You were normal. Being vegan is vegan. Is that normal?
I don't really know. I don't even know what normal is anymore. Yeah. But I, I know mine stemmed from a lot of trauma. So I kind of just like, but there was this like part of me like that wanted to get out, you know, like I was like, yeah, like, like trying to like figure out what my like,
sexual thing was you know and I like I was kind of like couldn't really decide am I like one of the boys you know because a lot of my friends are guys am I a slut that fucks all the guys you know or am I like am I looking for a boyfriend am I looking to like have sex with everyone I don't know I couldn't really figure out where on the sexual spectrum I fit in you know um and I actually did realize like I think in my brain I wanted to be like a really big slut like I always like looked up to the other sluts I was like it's so cool you wanted to be a really big slut or you just wanted to be desired by men um
I wanted to go out every night and fuck someone else. But like every time I do that, I would get attached. You know, I found myself getting attached to like everyone and always falling in love with people and not like, not really knowing what to do. But what do you know what your moon sign is? I don't know. I'll have to figure it out. I'll do your birth chart for you. Yeah. So it was, uh, it was hard for me to be a slut. Um, but I really tried really hard. Um,
But I did wind up sleeping with a lot of people that I thought all of them were going to be my boyfriend and most of them didn't want to be my boyfriend. But anyway, I don't know. Fast forward till later. I wound up writing a lot about this story.
okay this is really going somewhere I promise I wound up like kind of like I was in a lot I was a creative writing major and I started sort of writing all these like weird like sex poems you know some of them were kind of funny you manifested yeah yeah I even wound up getting like because I was in my senior year of college um you could take like an internship instead of a class like you know for college credit and I wound up like interning at this like like sort of
like yuppie ish sex magazine so it wasn't you know it was sort of like and it was a website one of the it was called nerve.com it was I think I think if I don't want to it was one of the first like dating sites actually and then they had all these articles they had like artsy nude photography they had like it was owned by a couple they had this really cool swanky office in New York I don't know it was kind of like inspiring to me and they'd have these like sex educators come in and talk and I don't know it was a way for me to sort of like
explore sex without really having much of it. But somebody guiding you and like kind of telling you what you need to do because your mom didn't do that. Exactly. So you were trying to figure it out. Interesting that I figured that out now. And then I would kind of come home. I lived in a house with seven dudes. They were all just my friends. It was this punk rock house. We had shows in the basement and everything. And one of them was, you know, who became my best friend who's, you know, I guess became my business partner and still my best friend to this day is Mitch. I lived...
We were best friends. We were not dating or anything like that. I don't know. I would come home and just like read all the guys in my house, my weird sex poems I wrote in English class. I don't really know why. I would talk to them about everything I was doing in the internship. And I don't know. One day Mitch was like, we should start a porn site.
We love Mitch for that. Yeah. Thanks, Mitch. And I was like, that's a great idea. Pretty much. I knew nothing about porn. You know, I didn't. He was a guy that watched porn. I actually remember once my only experience with porn, if you even want to call it that, is I came home one night late and like I was like, where's everyone? Everybody home? Like usually like at three in the morning, we'd all be like, you know, drunk eating pizza or something. Right. Vegan pizza, which was just...
bread and tomato sauce really they didn't have vegan cheese yeah yeah yeah they didn't have vegan cheese back then we would literally order pizza without cheese and the person on the phone would be like that's not pizza yeah you're eating bread and tomato sauce yeah yeah it'd be like oh everybody and I was like where is everyone where is everyone I remember opening my roommate's like door and all seven of the guys I lived in a house with were watching girls gone wild and I was like
I watched it for like a minute. I mean, that's not even porn, but you know, whatever it was, you know, remember the infomercials? Oh yeah. I'm really dating myself now. No, no, no. This is like vintage infomercials. So 2002, I was 22. So I know exactly what you're talking about. I'm 42. I'm going to be 42 in a few weeks. Yeah. So I'll be 43. So I get it. This is all like... This is all the same era. Yeah. Nostalgia. So it was really my only like...
experience with porn and you know my only other experience with porn was like I had a good friend and oh yeah I remember you know the cover of the Blink-182 album you know I remember being like god that girl is so beautiful and someone's like that's Janine she's a famous porn star and I was like what is a famous porn star and they're like she's like in a lot of like I don't know and then I remember kind of being in a video store trying to find videos of this of Janine just because she was in the Blink you know yeah yeah I think a lot of us did that I knew very little about but anyway from that point on I was like
That's a great idea. Let's start a porn site. And that was kind of where it began. And then April 2nd, 2002 was when it actually started. And I think that first conversation happened sometime in like November, December, you know, probably January.
2001. So I don't know. Yeah. And then it was like, all right, let's make this happen. When you, that was a short version. Yeah. So when you launched this site, it was burning angel.com. And what was it? What was it like? Just photos. It was just photos. At first there was photo sets of different girls. And originally I wasn't even going to be on the website. Um,
I was like, nobody wants to see me naked. Yeah, they do. And I just did not think of myself like that at all. And then I remember trying to find other girls to do it. And the first thing every girl would say is like, well, did you do it? And I'd be like, no.
And so at a certain point, I just started to feel like really hypocritical, like asking girls to do something that I wouldn't do myself. Like you're pimping them out. Yeah. And I was like, okay. And then I remember coming home being like, all right, Mitch, like I think I'm going to be on the website. And he was like, what? And all the guys in the house are kind of like laughing. Like I was not like this. You know what I mean? You're like their sister, little sister. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, I'm going to do it. I was like, well, just I think it'll make the other girls more comfortable. I feel weird asking them to do something I wouldn't do. Also, like keep in mind now, I don't even know.
Like if anyone trying to imagine me back then, it's like I'm walking around my college campus. Like I live in a house with eight guys. We have one digital camera. Right. Kind of that somebody borrowed from their mom. And we did not have a professional. If anyone asked you to be on a porn site and that's their setup, say no. I mean, you know.
Like it was not a professional operation, but I was just so excited and so passionate about it. I don't know. I really wanted to make this like, yeah, make this like empowering for women, you know, things. So the original Burning Angel was just photo sets and,
and I put some of my like weird sex stories on there too. And then there was also band interviews. So I was doing the band interviews and we would like, you know, I'd like ask the bands about sex and stuff like that. And that was the original Burning Angel that started in 2002. I never knew that story. Yeah. I love that a lot. Erin, let's switch over to you. So you're on the road. Joanna's doing her Burning Angel thing. Take me from there. So in the early 2000s,
I was just touring in little punk bands, having fun, bartending, running my business, doing all that. My business is actually how we met. Right. So basically for a while, Joanna...
was just a client of mine and burning angel. So we would in the warehouse be printing t-shirts that said like blow job and anal and like, you know, like silly, like merch. And we all, she was very famous even then. So we all knew who she was and we were big fans and we had like a poster of her on the wall and we thought it was so cool. Oh, we're making, you know, shirts for Joanna angel. It's so rad. Never did I, it even occurred to me that,
We'd be sitting here years later. 11 years later. There was one mutual friend, weirdly, that we didn't realize we had. A guy from San Diego who I knew through the music scene. And he, at the time, was a male performer. So Joanna was hiring him as talent on their sets. And at some point...
She was complaining about her last relationship to him and I was bitching about mine and he's like, you know I think you two might be might be kind of cool together. Yeah, and that that's how it all started was our friend He went by Brian Street team. Shout out to you Brian. Shout out Brian. And he is the the sole reason that me and Joanna are together. Yeah, Brian was like my best friend um, yeah, and he um
He originally hooked us up because I needed a new person to make like t-shirts and stuff for conventions because the person I was using like went out of business or whatever. And I was so originally I was just ordering shirts and stuff, you know. And yeah, I remember at a certain point like I was in a really long relationship that a lot of people knew about and that ended. And then after that, I was dating this, you know, another guy who
whatever it's dating is a complicated thing when you're in the porn industry so I found myself being you know 30 years old already a pretty established porn star and like single when did you take the jump from doing just pictures to porn oh god yeah I mean that like burning angel launched in 2002 I think by 2005 we started making like videos and stuff like that was like yeah um
But way later, yeah. You know, I found myself at that point, you know, this was probably, what year did we meet? I was 29 when we met. So that's like 11 years ago. So yeah. So fast forward till later. I'm a pretty like established porn star. Yeah. Being 30 years old and single and like in porn and, you know, and I was like, like every date I'd go on was just like,
It's like all manners just go out the window. They're like, oh, you're a porn star. Let me just like, you know, any way that I want. Right. Yeah. Or just like not, you know, every like date kind of started to feel like I'm on some like like interview. Right. You know what I mean? I don't know. It's almost like they don't think like you're a person. Right. Like women in porn don't have a bra.
brain yeah and you know whatever meanwhile you're running an entire business right yeah they should be asking you about that yeah and also it's like if i just wanted to fuck someone random i'm gonna do it with a professional sex person on camera and like make you know and and and have fun and make money off it that's how i like off camera yeah that was always my thing like like off camera i wanted it whatever i had to be meaningful you know um but like i said before i was never a
very good at one night stands anyway just a hopeless romantic right porn was the perfect place for me because I could explore myself sexually without getting like attached to anyone I could just have a great time I did escorting I never got into porn but I was high-end escort and that's exactly how I felt too I get to pick who I wanted to have sex with I got a shitload of fucking money and then I didn't have to talk to you again unless you wanted to be my regular and pay me a shit ton of money right but it's a controlled environment that's gonna like start and end
So it kind of like, you know what I mean? You could really throw yourself into it for that hour and then just kind of throw yourself out of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, anyway, I don't know. So I remember like, like he, I was ordering like shirts from him and yeah. And I remember when I, it was like after like I was in this like,
kind of, you know, short-lived relationship with someone that, you know, that ended because whatever he was, you know, he wasn't the one. Yeah. Because, because he was making way for Aaron. He just decided that because I was a porn star, um,
that he should be able to cheat on me all the time you know doing the typical thing it's like well you cheat on me every time you go to work and i'm like no i'm not i'm going to fucking work i can't stand dudes like that that's so weird to me so yeah so he was cheating on me even though he framed it as not cheating he was getting even at me for going to work i guess i don't know whatever anyway and i was just like so bummed it was like the fourth time that had happened in like a year and i remember like crying to brian about it and i was like it's just like
why is this like so hard? I, you know, like everything else in my life is so great. And blah, blah, blah. And he was like, you know, I think you'd be good with this Aaron. You know, I was like, Oh, like the guy that's making my shirts. And I was like, were you crushing on her?
What? Well, I was a fan. I was straight up a fan. Right. And that's all I was. I didn't... We had never met in person. Yeah. She did not know what I looked like. Oh, okay. I really... I didn't even know what he looked like. She just placed orders through our system, emailing. Okay, gotcha. So I knew very much who she was. She had no clue who I was. Gotcha. You didn't know you had the stud making your shirt? I really didn't know. I didn't know. So, yeah. And then I remember he showed me a picture of him where you were like...
with this like acoustic guitar and I was like, oh God. - I'll quote you. She said, "He looks like an emo douche." - Oh, that's my type. - So that was the first impression of me from Joanna Angel. - But then he showed me another picture.
Where you looked really sexy. I still looked emo, just not like a dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You didn't have an acoustic guitar. Everything was the same. There was just no acoustic guitar. So suddenly you were hot. I feel like musicians get a bad rap, though. Usually it's deserved. Well, yeah. I married one, so it tells me. Yeah.
Also, the last three guys I had been, you know, whatever, in some weird thing with that didn't go anywhere was a musician. Joanna clearly has a type. I have a type. Right. Anyway, so whatever. I was like, you know what? I do want to go on a date with this guy. I had to figure out how to go from like ordering shirts to like hitting on him, which was... I started just like calling the office or emailing with like questions about things that I really didn't have, you know? And I would try to be like...
Like, I don't know. I just started like saying dumb shit. Like I would be like, oh yeah. So for my next order of shirts, I think we should do this. What do you think about it? And you'd be like, I don't know. I'm like, whatever you want, John Angel. You're my customer. Like I'll do it. Most of the time we just talked over email or G chat, but like,
No, we weren't even talking on G chat. We were talking over email and I just took it upon myself to start sending you G chat messages through your email. And then so Brian hadn't filled you in that she saw a picture of you. Not initially. And then at some point, even I was like, all right, what the fuck is going
Am I like tripping balls? Is this the Twilight Zone? I was like, there's no way the Joanna Angel is like hitting on me through email. This makes no sense. And then my friend though was like, at some point was like, no, like you got to make a move, man. Like do something, you know? And then I remember it was the fourth, like around the 4th of July. I was like,
I thought, you know, because he lived in San Diego. I lived in LA. There was no like, hey, do you want to meet up at a bar? You know, like you had, we had to really actually make plans. So I remember being like, hey, my friend is throwing a big 4th of July party. Do you and your friends want to come? That seemed like a nice...
Fair, you know, like, like kind of like, like if he didn't go for it, it was like, oh, I just invited him to a party. I was like, oh, come to this 4th of July party my friends are having. And I almost blew it completely. I didn't go. And then he said he was going to come. So Joanna invites me. And again, I'm like, quote unquote, like a nobody at this point. And Joanna is very much a somebody. And I got really nervous. And.
San Diego to LA is about three hours. And I, it was 4th of July. So I went to like a friend's barbecue earlier in the day and I was going to go up and I got too drunk to drive basically because I was just too nervous. And I basically, I pussied out. And the next day on July 5th, I woke up and I was like,
dude, you really blew that. Like, what is wrong with you? Like, and I kept being like, I think he's going to be here. And I, and even at some point when she knew I was in the coming, I could feel it through the text. She was like, whatever, bro. Like, okay. And the next day I was just like, Hey, I'm,
I am super sorry. If you want to tell me to fuck off, it's cool. But I will drive up now, like right now to LA. I'll drive three hours. Like, can we have lunch? Can we do something just to make like, like if you'll give me a shot. And she was like,
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