We Have Totally Different Love Languages
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Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I don't ever want to plan to have his mom watch her daughter. Can you hire a babysitter? I've thought about that, but he also brings up money. If I see that money gone, I stress. I'm just trying to put myself in his shoes. He's like, okay, my mom's going to be here at six. We're going on a date. You're like, no! He's like, okay, I hired a babysitter. No! Yo, yo, yo, what's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm so grateful that you are with us.

Talking about your marriage, your relationships, your mental and emotional health, whatever you got going on in your life. Real people going through real stuff. And this show's about you, it's for you, and it's by you. You want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask. Man, huge, huge difference. If you hit the subscribe button, leave a five-star review, hit the...

I don't know what other buttons there are to hit, but hit all of them. Hit all of them. Send an episode to your buddy if you think they would benefit from it. I'm so grateful for each one of you who continually picks up the show, listens to the show, or watches the show. I'm so, so grateful. Let's go out to Boise, Idaho and talk to Sierra. Hey, Sierra, what's up? Hi, John. How are you today? I'm great. And you?

I'm doing okay. I need a little bit of a marriage advice. Okay, go for it. I feel like me and my husband are in a rut and we're not going anywhere. We're not like doing new things as like a married couple. And it's just kind of like the same in, same out every day. Kind of where do I even begin? I just, I feel like I'm craving my husband's attention. Okay.

Where is his attention? I'm sorry. What was that? Where is his attention? I don't know. I don't know how to answer that. Like if he takes a day off of work, I try to take a day off of work with him just to have that time with him. And we have two year olds and like, just to have him plan a date night is like pulling teeth and like,

I just, I kind of don't know where to go. Have you told him that makes me feel loved or it would make me feel loved if you played a date night for us? I do. And he does tell me that it's, I don't ever want to plan to have his mom watch her daughter because it gives me anxiety because I have had PPA so bad. But can somebody else watch your daughter besides his mom?

So we, um, my family is in Salt Lake, so it's not necessarily feasible. Um, and can you hire a babysitter? I've thought about that, but he also brings up money.

about it being um he is trying to protect me in a way that i if i see that money gone i stress which i don't i don't know why i mean we're financially stable we're okay yeah but like i mean you're struggling with postpartum anxiety and i get that but i also get how he feels trapped how he can best love you yeah is that fair tell me i'm tell me i'm wrong

I get accused of being hard on men all the time on the show. But tell me I'm wild here because I'm just trying to put myself in his shoes. And you're like, you never plan anything. You never want to do anything. I miss you. I want to be with you. And he's like, okay, my mom's going to be here at six. We're going on a date. You're like, no. And he's like, okay, I hired a babysitter. No. Like,

Well, and see, like trying to get his mom to come over to even try to be part of our daughter's life is also pulling teeth for her. And even if we take her over there, it's the same thing. She doesn't necessarily want to be part of our daughter's life. Okay. You need to grieve that. Because that's not how you drew this up, is it? No. No. You need to grieve that. That's the worst. Yeah. And it's reality. Yeah.

Yeah, it is. It is. And it's hard. It is. But here's what I don't want you to do. I don't want you to like everything I've just thrown out there and I'm just throwing stuff at a wall. Let's see if it'll stick. Everything I've thrown out there. You've got like a re like a boom. Can't be, can't be this boom. Can't be this boom. Can't be this. And here's what I want you to hear me say. The marriage that y'all had before you had a two year old, that marriage is over. Doesn't exist anymore.

Yeah. And you're hanging on so tight, you're strangling your current marriage to death. That's the crummy part, because it sounds like your marriage before your kid was pretty awesome. Is that right? Yeah. I mean, it was good. Yeah. Great. Well, it doesn't have to be, but I mean, there's probably some good, some hard, some blah, all that, right? Yeah. Okay. And by the way, in-laws who don't want anything to do with the grandbaby probably weren't the best in-laws before the grandbaby, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So that's crummy. The cool part is you get to build whatever's next. How do we do that? First, you have to decide that I'm going to stop entering into the world trying to be protected by rumination and preemptive, or as Brene Brown says, dress rehearsing tragedy.

Because your day is spent imagining the worst case scenario that could possibly happen and trying to solve it in the present to the point that you have created a prison that is locked on the inside that you can't get out of and that your husband can't get inside with you. True. Is that fair? Yeah. Okay. You have to choose healing. And the healing process is hard and it's scary and all those things, but it's a choice.

In like 60 seconds, you told me that you have PPA. That can't be your identity anymore. That's a way your body wrestled with this beautiful child you brought to the world. Great. Cool. Yep. But that's not going to be who we are now and forever. And that pain and that terror and that scared feelings, did you have really rough ruminating thoughts? Yeah. Did you have thoughts that scared the crap out of you? Yeah. Did you have thoughts that you haven't told anybody out loud yet?

Um, yeah. Because you think they're going to take your baby away? Yeah. Okay, you got to sit with somebody and say those things out loud. They're not going to take your baby away. Okay? Okay. Probably not your husband. You'll scare him to death. Yeah, probably. Tell me I'm wrong. Am I right? You're completely right. Okay. You've created a prison where your own baby's not even safe with you. I don't say it like that. I know, but that's how your body reacts.

Your husband can't be intimate with you and you can't be intimate with him because you're hidden inside a prison. So a, you've got to choose healing. That's number one. Number two, can I just be like really blunt? Is that cool? Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. Y'all get to decide what your sex life looks like now. What days, what adventures, what do you want to wear? Where do you want to be? Like you get to, you get to make it all up. It's awesome. And you get to decide, Hey, um, this used to feel good. I used to be super into this. I'm not anymore.

but I do want to try this. Okay, let's give that a whirl. And halfway through, nope, nope. Like you get to decide all of that. And if you go into it with a spirit of curiosity, it's the greatest fun and adventure you can have. If you go to it with a spirit of, if I get this wrong, he's going to leave.

Yeah. If I get this wrong, it's going to be another example of how I'm a failure. I'm like every... I screwed this up too. I'm not a good mom. I'm not a good this. If you knew it was in my head, you would know I'm telling the truth. I'm not... If you go into it with that attitude, it'll bury you. I'm still buried. I know. I know. I know. And you're going to have to be really specific. And I'm not saying this to let him off the hook. I'm saying...

Most men and I'm being very over generalizing here and I know it and everybody can write mean comments about me and I don't care Most men want to when they have a child love that baby and love mama the best way they know how and the roadmap changes and mom has a very clear picture of what she wants this thing to feel like what she wants to sing to look like and unless you all are very explicit with each other about what you're feeling about what you want this thing to look like and

then he ends up doing the best he can and all he knows is he's doing it wrong. And you end up feeling like, I just need some help around here. But you're going to have to get past the, it's not sexy if we put it on the calendar. It's not romantic if I have to lay it out explicit. Can I be really embarrassingly vulnerable right now?

My wife is an author. She wrote a book and she's in Oklahoma right now at a convention selling the book on the refrigerator, which means I'm home with my two kids. Yeah, you're on dad duty. I'm on. I'm on. It's my favorite thing. It's my favorite thing. It is me and Josephine and Hank and we are ride or die this weekend. And on our fridge is three pieces of paper. Hank, Josephine and dad in a list of our responsibilities.

Did I need that? No, I don't. I don't. I'm growing up. I'm a good dad. Would I forget some things? 100%. No question about it. But, but, A, my wife knows she has a picture of how this is going to go while she's gone. And the clearer she is about that picture, I'll do, I'll move heaven and earth to make her picture come true because I don't care. Like, we're going to have fun. And if she wants these six things done, dude, I'll knock those out. That'd be great. If that's how I can love her, awesome.

And at first, I used to get my feelings hurt. I used to get all like, you're just telling me what to do. No, dude, it's a gift. It's awesome. It's a blessing. Is it frustrating to see a piece of paper and I'm in my 40s and I do this for a living and I have a piece of paper where it says dad in my chore list on it? Yeah, that's annoying. And it's kind of awesome.

It's both in. But what I'm telling you is the roadmap out is a couple of sentences. Hey, honey, the story I'm choosing to make up about this situation right now is fill in the blank. Not...

He asked me what I wanted for dinner and I said nothing, but he knows I hate tacos. And here we are at the taco shop. He never listens to me. I don't even know why we're married. And now, right? Like whoosh, we're down a road, right? Oh my Lord. Yes. Cause you never figure out dinner. It would be super helpful if you just said, I don't want tacos. I'll eat anything else. Or I really want tacos or even better. I need, I don't want to spend the money.

I would, nothing you could do right now would make me feel more loved than you making dinner at home for us. Say that out loud while you're holding his hands and look into his eyes across the table as y'all are walking out what I'm gonna call a romance map. Y'all are making a map to each other's heart in this new marriage you have.

And he might say, nothing would make me feel more loved than the laundry magically getting done or me walking in the door and you attacking me and wanting to make out. And who knows what he's going to write in his paper and what you're going to write in your paper. The beauty is y'all are both very vulnerable in saying, okay, we get to build a new marriage. What do we want this thing to look like and feel like? And what must be true for that to happen? How does this, I don't want to say, how does this work? Because like when we have, where am I going with this? Um,

Words. Like, just for him to take a picture of me with our daughter, it never happens. And I always, I don't want to say I ask him. I just kind of expect him to. You can't do that anymore. You can't do that anymore. It's not fair. Yeah. Because here's the deal. You've cast him in a movie that he doesn't even know he's in. And you are really mad that he doesn't know the lines. And what's more important? Having a picture of you and your daughter? Or him...

Like magically pulling the phone out and being like, this is a great moment. Cause he might tell you, Oh dude, I listened to this, this, this goofball on YouTube. Who's always telling me to put my phone away and just be present with my wife and daughter. True. I mean, that is true. He might be telling you, but all you have to say is, Hey honey, take a picture of this real quick. And he'll go, got it. And it goes back to the same old, like, um, like I don't want to put sex on the calendar. Okay. Here's your choice. Not having it at all.

Or having an amazing evening together that you planned. That's the two choices, right? Or I don't want to have to tell him about the photo. Okay, cool. So he's shown you he likes to be fully present with no phone. Either we're not going to have a photo or you see him like, I think you have to be past that point and be really explicit. And I think setting the ground rules up in advance to say, honey, I am practicing marriage 3.0 for us.

And I'm going to practice being really explicit about the picture that's in my head. And I'm not doing it to belittle you. I'm not doing it to make fun of you. I'm not doing it to be a pain or to nag or anything like that. I'm doing it because I love you and I want to give you a roadmap to my heart. I feel like I have a hard time telling him that. I know you do. But I want. Why do you have a hard time?

Is he going to leave you? No, I feel like I have a hard time pinpointing exactly what I want. Like, yeah, I want him to take a picture of me and our kid together, you know, but like, I think the gooey insides of our marriage, does that make sense? No. Be specific. Sorry. That's okay. It's all right.

So like we're five, five, almost five years. We're four years into our marriage. And so I feel like we're, isn't there like the five internal steps in marriage and we're at one where I'm like, I just feel like we're not moving forward either. And so. Sierra. Yeah. Yeah. You're awesome. Here's what it feels like is happening.

It feels like you have a professional baseball game playing on a 60-inch flat screen, and you and your husband are playing catch, and you keep looking over at the screen, and you're so heartbroken that it doesn't look like that. Probably. Whenever couples ask me when I'm doing a marriage retreat, they say, what's the average amount of sex people have in a week? I won't answer that question. I always tell them it doesn't matter. What matters is what did y'all agree on? What works for y'all?

And so, yes, there are stages where there is more conflict in spaces than others. Uh-huh. Right? There are some inflection points. Having a two-year-old in the house is one of those moments. Having postpartum anything is one of those moments. Having your feel like your body is betraying you with anxiety. It feels like it's not even your own body. It's going to war and fighting things that you don't even know what it's doing anymore. That losing that trust is terrifying.

And the thought of our first two years, man, we peeled the wallpaper off in this house. We did whatever we wanted. Now we have to put date night on the calendar and I have to tell you exactly where I want to go? Yep. And here's what's going to be weird about it and you're going to think I'm crazy. There used to be tons of fun in the spontaneity. Let's just go get burgers. Yeah! Yeah!

Now when burgers are on the calendar, you get to think about burgers all day. It's kind of awesome. It used to be there was really excitement and adventure in just getting home and ripping each other's clothes off. Now you're going to know Thursday night is party night and you're going to think about it all day. And then you're going to move to, hey, I kind of want Thursday night to look like this. Or you're just going to get real brave and you're going to send him a text, a little bit over the line text.

And you're going to see him light up like a Christmas tree all the way across town. You see what I'm saying? So what you thought was everything's got to be about this. Now it's going to look different, but it's just a different kind of awesome. It's just different. And if you go around looking for, oh, I think we're at the inflection point. I think this is where our marriage crashes. You're for sure going to crash it.

Yeah. If you walk through and go, man, we have a two-year-old, I need to get a handle on my anxiety. I need to decide I'm not going to be, I'm not going to have an identity that that's me. That's a thing that happened. That's cool. And when he says, hey, I want to have a second baby, and you're like, I want a second baby, but I'm scared to have a second baby because of what I went through last time. That's all real and good.

Oh my God, we're right there. I know you are. And you're terrified of your body. Dude, I do this for a living. It's good. But now you feel like you're betraying him. You feel like you're betraying yourself. You want your baby to have a sibling. All those things are there. Yep. But you're not crazy. It's normal. What's unhealthy is just to sit and let it immobilize you.

Let it boil and sit there and think about it all the time, nonstop. Yeah. And then you feel like you're a bad spouse. Yes. And then a bad mom. And just overthinking inside the box is not always good. It's never good. It is rumination, overthinking, constantly worrying about the next worst thing that could happen and trying to solve it in the present. Yeah.

is a grade A, 100% complete waste of your time and your energy. Yeah. And so here's, I'm glad to tell you that. And here's why it was also mean that I told you that. Because now you're going to know every moment moving forward that I choose to just based in this, I'm choosing to be a less present friend, mom, spouse, a less present you. And you also know that when the rumination gets so powerful, you can't stop it. You need to go see a doctor.

I've been there. I've been medicated for it. It's okay. I've had two knee surgeries. I needed to get help there too. I mean, it's just part of it. I'm nervous to get on and stay on any anxiety meds. Then don't. Is there a way out of anxiety? But you're going to have to do real hard work on the front end. Yeah. And it's going to be uncomfortable. Yeah.

It will be really, really uncomfortable. But let me tell you this way. The hurt or the potential pain you're avoiding is causing infinitely more pain in real time right now. Fair? I can agree to that, yeah. Okay. Head straight into the pain points. If you're worried about the thoughts in your mind, call your doctor, your OB-GYN today and say, I've got some wild thoughts going on in my head and it's postpartum anxiety and I'm scared to say them out loud.

I'm not going to hurt anybody or hurt anything. I'm not a danger to anybody, but I am freaking myself out. Can I come in and talk? Yeah. And tell your husband, I miss you more than life itself. I miss you. I miss you. I miss you. Here's a little, a little chart I wrote up. Here's 40 things, 40 little markers as a roadmap to my heart. I want to sit with you while you write out yours and we're going to read them to each other. All right. Is that fair?

Yeah. And I want you to say next week, we're going to get together and I'm going to practice hiring a babysitter. I'm going to interview somebody. I'm going to invite them over and maybe we're going to be gone for 30 minutes. I'm going to pay him $25 for 30 minutes, which is insane on every front, but you know what I'm doing? We're practicing. Yeah. You're going to practice paying money. You're going to practice having somebody with your kid while you're gone for 30 minutes. Y'all just going to drive around and go get a Coke Zero and then come back.

It'll be fine. It'll be great. The next time you're going to practice an hour, the next time you're going to practice an hour and a half, you're going to slowly inch your way. But this is you entering into the scariest parts, the out there parts. And what you're going to find is they're not so scary once you get out in there. You're going to grieve the fact that you had this picture of your mother-in-law being there for you guys in the same town, always come over to babysit, and she doesn't want to do any of that stuff. Heartbreaking. Stinks. That's a her problem, not a you problem.

But don't go looking for where this thing is getting off the rails. Instead, be really active about creating what happens next. I think you guys have an amazing future ahead of you. And I am 10 out of 10 optimistic that y'all can sit down and map it out and there'll be tears, there'll be laughter, and there'll be a little, ooh, I didn't know that. And there'll be all kinds of adventures to be had in the future. And if you have another baby, chances are you get anxious again. So we're going to pre-plan this time because now you know what's coming.

And we're just going to create a world so that when the next scary thing comes, we're going to be ready for it. I'm proud of you. Proud of you for making this call. Thank you so, so much. Your bravery and vulnerability is helping a whole, whole bunch of people. Blessings to you, my friend. Hang on the line. I'm going to send you both of my books, Building an Unanxious Life and Own Your Past, Change Your Future. I want you to read them both. Read them both. Take care. We'll be right back.

All right, I want to talk about Halo. It's an app that I use just about every single day. So we're here at the end of summer trying to fit in that last minute vacation, trying to figure out where all of our money went and trying to plan for the start of school. And it's chaos. It's chaos. It's chaos in your life and it's chaos in mine. And it's this season when it's super important to make sure you double and triple down on your exercise practices, your counseling, your relationships,

and your spiritual health. And if you're a person of faith, or if you're just curious and you don't know anything about this faith, prayer, whatever stuff, don't let your daily prayer or your meditation practices or your questions go unanswered or by the wayside. Don't let your still time with God go. As things ramp up and get more and more chaotic, we have to choose to slow down and focus on the things that really, really matter.

And in addition to my conversations with my friends and my personal reading and journaling time, Hallow helps me stay on point with my spiritual practices. Hallow is an app that's easy to download right to your phone and it is packed with daily prayers, lecture series, meditations, music, stories, nighttime sleep programs, and more. Hallow is the number one prayer app in the world. And it's simple, it's super high quality, and you can personalize it based on wherever you happen to be in your spiritual life.

I use it on my drive to work, when I'm sitting in front of my red light, sometimes when I'm out walking my dogs, and I even listen to some of the music when I'm writing. Hallow has a journaling feature for your own personal reflection. I could go on and on. It's got everything. Here's what's really cool. This month, Hallow has special guests each week walking us through the lives of some incredible historical saints, learning more about their life, their faith, their story, and ultimately, their surrender to God's call on their life.

Hallow's Saints in Seven Days series dives deeper into the lives of these prominent saints, exploring their journey to sainthood and how it relates to our own lives. Here's the deal. My friends at Hallow are giving you three free months to try all of this right now. That's 90 days to experience the joy and peace that this experience can help bring to your life. It's totally free to try it out. Go try it. It can change everything.

Go to hallo.com slash Deloney today for three free months. That's hallo, H-A-L-L-O-W dot com slash Deloney. All right, let's go out to Bellingham, Washington and talk to McKenzie. Hey, McKenzie, what's up? Hey. How's it going? Okay. My heart is literally pounding right now. Mine too. Mine too.

It's not really. What's up? What's up? So I'm just going to read it right off because I don't think on my feet very well. Okay. About a month ago, I kicked my husband out with a temporary protection order after he hit our 13-year-old son. And now due to some pushback from my church, I'm having second thoughts on continuing to pursue a long-term protection order. What? Jeez.

Mackenzie, I was having a great day. Now you're going to get me all fired up. All right. So what happened at your house? So a 13 year old has ADHD. He is currently seeing his own therapist, which has been really great for him. He gets frustrated very easily. And because he's ADHD, he can't really control his body very well.

Uh, he got frustrated and accidentally broke our TV. And what does that mean? He, he shook the TV trying to make it work and it broke. Okay. Uh, and when his dad came home, he got really mad, like, like really pissed and punched him in the shoulder. According to our kid, he punched him three times. Okay. Has he hit y'all before? Um, not me. Um,

He has smacked our 13 year old upside the head a couple of times. Um, this is the first time it was really that violent. Okay. Does he have anger issues? Oh, very, very much. Okay. Um, can I be real honest? Yeah. Um, there's a part of this you're not telling me cause you're trying to protect him and I need you to be just totally honest with me. Um, I have several friends that have been throwing around the word narcissism. Um,

I don't want to hear any diagnostics or any like Google MD. What is your experience inside your home? Seven years ago, he raped me. Okay. Now we're getting to it. And when I reached out for help seven years ago, all my church friends couldn't seem to give me a straight answer as to what actually it was that happened. The wording they used was, I gave up. So technically that makes it a gray area. What?

- Mackenzie, that's madness. You fought your husband to not have sex, or was he your husband at the time? - Yes. - And you fought him to not be intimate, and you fought him to not have sex, and you fought him to not have sex, and you finally just relented so you could keep the house safe? - I stared at the clock wondering how long he would push me. For over an hour, I was physically pushing his hands off of me, telling him, "No, please stop begging him." And then I just gave up. - I'm sorry.

And so when I heard from the church that that isn't necessarily rape, also he's your husband. There's some confusion regarding that. There's no confusion, Mackenzie. There's no confusion. Why are you still at this church? I guess I keep hoping that they'll change. They're not going to because they're more concerned with the purity of their image than the safety of the people that attend their building.

Yeah, that's what my friends keep saying. Okay. Listen to your friends. I think what hurts the most right now, because for seven years I've just sort of pushed that down and I guess pretended it didn't happen, despite the fact that he was still pressuring me in the bedroom nearly every night. And it was when he hit our son that I, that was the moment I realized I, no matter how much I don't deserve the treatment, I,

I can't stand by and watch him do the same sort of things to our kids. And it's escalating. Yes. And as your son gets bigger and his ability to, he's just got bigger muscles. He can, instead of pushing over a glass of water, he can push over the TV. And then instead of pushing the TV, he can wreck the car. Like it's just going to escalate. Yeah. And I am 100% confident. I don't want you to tell me anymore.

But there's been a lot going on in the last seven years. Fair? Yeah. Yes. And I know that it's scary to think of what's next. And I know it's scary to think of how am I going to eat? And how's this little boy going to eat? And bullies like that, that rape their wives, that punch around on their kids. And there's a difference, by the way, everybody listen. And there's a difference between bopping each other on the shoulder and bonking each other. There's a difference.

I have an Olympic-sized wrestling mat in my living room upstairs. Like, my kids and I wrestle. We get after it. There's a difference in hitting your kid out of rage. And you know the difference in your own home. Yeah. And I hate the fact that you went to a group of people that say, come see us every week. We're the safest people for you. We represent Jesus and we represent love. Come talk to us. We represent wisdom and counsel.

They've told you to remain in a wholly unsafe place. I'm sorry. I'm not going to tell you what to do with him other than to say you've lived it. And you've lived it for longer than seven years because when he raped you, when he pushed you way past what you had said for an hour or more, that kind of behavior was going on before that, right? So it's time to be able to go home and be safe in your own place. Do you have a job?

I'm trying to build a editing business. I don't think it's time to build a business right now. You need to go make money. Getting into your finances would be a whole other call, but you need to go get money. You need some economic security because I know it's really easy for a guy like me to be like, you got to get out of there. That guy sucks. And then you're going to look at me and go, okay, cool. Where am I going to go? How am I going to eat?

Yeah. And I know that's, that part's scary. And I know you want to build a business and it's going to be yet another thing that this guy took from you. I get that. So I'm not going to tell you to follow how long the restraining order should be or any of that kind of stuff. I'm going to tell you, you know, the people who are closest to you and who love, you know what the next right move is. And I want you to follow your heart, to follow your gut and follow the counsel of your friends who've been walking alongside you all the time. Okay. Hmm.

And if that means you go to police, that means you go to police. And your son is going to think he did all of this. And he needs to be sat down and looked in the eye and put with your hands on both sides of his face and letting him know there are things that have been going on in this home for years that you have nothing to, no idea about. What happened to you has nothing to do with you. It has everything to do with your dad. Yeah. I've told him that. I know. You cannot tell him that too much. Yeah. Because he's going to equate I broke the TV to I broke up our family.

Yeah. And he's probably already known it's his job to make sure dad doesn't get mad for most, if not all of his life. Fair? Oh yeah, absolutely. And it's probably been his job to make sure mom is safe for most of his life, right? Yes. So he's been carrying that responsibility his whole life. This is just going to upend all that. Yeah. But here's the literal steps. You need to get with a

Either a social worker or a mental health professional or a close friend that you trust and you'll make a game plan on A, B, and C, and D. Here's my plan. Here's how much this plan is going to cost. Here's where I'm going to go for month one, for month two, month three, month four. Here's the stipulations I'm going to put on this man if this marriage is going to survive. It sounds to me like you've been dead in this marriage for a long time. Fair? Yeah. Yeah.

I'm throwing a lot at you, and I want you to hear my anger is not at you. It's at this guy who thinks he's tough, and he can push around a little kid, and he can push around his wife. How's it sitting on you? It's sitting okay. Okay. I think you knew when you called, right? Yeah. Your church is wrong. They're wrong. In any church that tells a woman who's getting raped inside her own home and her husband's punching around on their kids,

And screaming and yelling that says, yeah, no, no, no, no. He gets to do that. Dust your sandals off and go on to the next church. Yeah. You have a friend you can call tonight? Mm-hmm. Where's your husband now? Is he still in proximity to your son? Do you need to call the police? Or you've got a temporary order? No. You've got a temporary order. Yeah, we have the temporary protection order. So we are in the home. Have you gone to court yet? A couple of times. He keeps pushing the date back. Okay.

Okay, cool. I even broke a couple of old wedding plates because it pissed me off so much. Is he pushing it back because he doesn't have the money or he's scared of you or because he's playing a game? Honestly, I have no idea. I'm so used to his ability to manipulate every conversation. Do you have an attorney? I don't at the moment, no. Okay, let's get one. Okay. Let's get one, and then their job is to fight for you.

And a good attorney is a hired gun. They're an assassin. That's their job. And if they're good, they don't get conversations turned around on them. Okay? Your job now is you doing the work you need to do to go get well, to go heal from having the safest place on earth home, what should be the safest place, be the most terrifying place in the world for you. You and your son need to heal from...

which all had to live through. You're going to have to heal from leaving your son in this mess for 13 years because it's been pretty radioactive for a long time. You're going to have to, that's going to be hard for you. You have to deal with that. And that's not me casting judgment at all in any way, but that's going to come up. Your son's going to have to heal as well. It's going to be a long road, but I want you all to begin that healing process in peace. My God, in peace. I'm so sorry. And I've said it before and I'll say it again. Church leaders, if you take on the responsibility of speaking for God,

and you take on the responsibility of shepherding a group of people, then you take on the job of keeping them safe, making sure they're whole. Be a good steward of that responsibility. Oh, man. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

So my wife and I were meeting the other day about the back-to-school madness that is about to be on us. We've got my travel schedule, her work schedule, our daughter's new school and clothes and forms to fill out and all these online portals and my son's sports schedule and he's got to have shoes every two weeks because his feet won't stop growing and how are we going to pay for all this and on and on and on.

And when we step back and look at our schedule, it's so packed and we haven't even put in the things like exercise, date nights, counseling appointments, church and holiday trips and big home projects. And these are the things that make life worth living. And I listened to y'all. This is your life too. And here's what I've learned. When it comes to taking care of me, my family and my work, I have to begin with the things that matter most and the things that keep me well and whole so I can wade into the chaos and be sturdy and present and strong.

you too. So as you're planning your upcoming end of summer and fall plans, make sure you don't skip date nights, don't skip regular exercise, and don't skip your regular therapy appointments. Yes, therapy can be hard work, but can also help make the rest of your life possible.

When it comes to therapy, I want you to consider calling the team at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy staffed with licensed therapists. It's convenient, it's flexible, and it's suited to fit your schedule.

With a good therapist, you can learn things like positive coping skills, how to set boundaries, how to deal with all the chaos going on in your life, and how to be the best version of yourself. In this upcoming season, make sure you put on your oxygen mask first. Never skip therapy day. Call my friends at BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash deloney today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash deloney.

All right, we're back. Let's go out to Newcastle, Pennsylvania and talk to dear Marie. What's up, Marie?

Hi, Dr. John. I called in with a question and I'm hopeful that you'd be able to help. For my daughter, she is 13, almost 14. She'll be 14 next month. And she still experiences pretty extreme night terror. Yeah. She's okay if she can sleep in the same room.

But otherwise, it just completely overwhelms her. She will be awake until the sun comes up.

So I just wanted to see what tools I could use. I've had every conversation I know to have, and I've tried every method, you know, of prompting relaxation before bed or just trying to... We've tried music. We've tried melatonin. We've tried exercise before bed, like...

Everything that I could think of has been going on for so long that I am out of ideas. So I wanted to call and see if you can help me. Sure. Thank you so much for the call. Man, that class of, I think it's parasomnia. It's been a while since I've read that stuff, but that's tough. I mean, sleep is such a holy thing, right? It's just so good. And we can't sleep. It's literally, no pun intended, a nightmare. Yeah.

All right, let me ask you a couple of big picture questions so I can kind of drill in here. Night terrors are often linked to some sort of separation anxiety. And you mentioned it perfectly that when she finally comes to, can you wake her up or do you have to let it cycle all the way through?

Okay, so it's not actually a nightmare that she has. It is a awake terror. She's not sleeping. Like, she can't go to sleep because she's so afraid. But if she does sleep in the same room with me, then she's fine. She does have a lot of nightmares. I'm sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.

I was just going to say she does have a lot of nightmares. That seems like that has gotten better within the last, I would say, two years as far as the number of nightmares that she would have. But I've never seen her unable to be woken from a nightmare. And if she's scared, terrified, as soon as she knows I'm there, she's fine. Okay.

Have you struggled with this? Or somebody in your home? Do you have other siblings? Dad, have you all struggled with night terrors? I had night terrors until I had her. Nice. My entire life, yeah. Nice. This is like Nightmare on Elm Street. Like now I'm starting to see it.

It just hit me actually the other day. I thought I passed it on to her. And then just from the really helpful way that people have called in and some of the conversations that I've heard on your show, I realized there might be some actual application reasons that it occurred. And I would just love it if there was a way that I could help her. Well, I...

Do you have a, if you pull a string all the way back, do you have abuse or trauma in your background? Yeah, I would say, how can I put this without it taking over the call? My life would probably be an atomic bomb that would take over the whole phone call. Have you ever taken the ACEs test? No. All right, when this call's over, I want you to take the ACEs test, A-C-E-S. And it's just, it's a really quick 10 question thing.

Um, but if you're, if you're a seven, eight, nine, 10, which it sounds like you are, um, let me, let me say it this way. If you, you know, let me go back. I'm, I'm over talking. You said it's an atomic bomb. Give me a, the high, high 30,000 foot. Cause it, it does matter. Okay. Give me the 30,000 foot view.

Okay. Okay. Give me one second to like really condense this. So I would say I'm the child of a 14-year-old runaway. She wasn't 14 when she had me mostly.

Several of my siblings are runaways. We moved 36 times before I graduated from high school. I had four different dads. We had, you know, drugs, alcohol, like every kind of self-destruction that you could have. But I had...

I had hope and I had people who were really beautiful to me, like in my teens and a local church that really took me in and just helped me walk out of that. It wasn't, it's still not easy. But yeah, so very grateful. Let me say it this way that in a way that hopefully maybe no one's ever said it like this. If you don't know when the next guy is going to walk into your room,

You don't know when the next time you're going to have to go get mom. If you don't know when the next time you're going to walk through the room and there's still a lit cigarette on something or there's still a needle on something. You don't know the next night where you're going to be sleeping. Your body, Marie, would be failing you if it let you sleep all night.

Yes, I agree. I've actually come to understand that from your show and I'm so grateful. That's what makes me think like, so if that's the case, how do you, is there a way you can help? Now, my daughter's life has not been that way, but there have definitely been things that have like...

high tension, you know, and a lot of hurt and things that I'm not sure if I should go into or not. So I can definitely see how this would have been planted in her heart as well. She had trauma, stress?

Stress, definitely high stress, I would say. I mean, stress is trauma, so I would say, yeah, trauma. I mean, some stress, most stress is great for you. It's good for you, right? Like I worked out this morning. This would not be good stress. Okay, all right. Yeah. Because here's what I want to lean on. Whenever somebody talks about night terrors, I'm always going to, I always want to lean towards

some sort of separation anxiety. I want to lean towards some sort of overall generalized anxiousness, some sort of way your body is trying to get your attention that the next thing is going to happen right now. Okay. Okay. And I don't, I've, I'm out over my skis. Um, it would be unethical. It wouldn't be cool of me to say, well, I think it's this, this, and this, and this, where I would point you is, um,

When's the last time, and this is going to sound awful, and so please hear me how I'm saying this, okay? And I'll walk you through how I'm saying it. I'm saying this with the purest heart possible, okay? Not one ounce, not one ounce of blame. And I know you're a good mom. You're going to hear it that way. I don't want you to hear it. When's the last time you went and talked to somebody about anxiety, about what happened when you were a kid? Not a church person, but like a licensed clinical therapist. When's the last time you sat down and had some trauma therapy?

I have never had trauma therapy, I would say. I have tried to talk to a counselor multiple times. I will say, quite honestly, like I think I understand why.

you know, where you're heading with that, I may be totally wrong. But at this point in my life, I went through, I mean, I was rock bottom, falling apart, like clinically depressed, panic attacks, landing me in the hospital, like a total, total mess.

for a large period of my life. And my life was rebuilt on top of that by God's grace. I mean, I just, I don't struggle now. I sleep well. I don't struggle with anxiety. I just chose to walk on, to live and look for hope. And God sent me beautiful friends and just really built my life, you know, on a strong foundation, like totally new life. Yeah.

So I did try to reach out for counseling, but I never had a lot of success from that. I felt

one person just kept interrupting me when I would try to talk and the next one had me fill out this like hour and a half long questionnaire and then they didn't read it. Yeah, it was frustrating. So there's a famous book by Dr. Bessel van der Kolk. You probably heard me say it on the show. Makes you talk about all the time, especially the beginning of the show. It's called The Body Keeps the Score.

Okay. And it's essentially, it's discussion is we've made mental health very cognitive things we think about. And what he goes on him and his research team have proven over the years is trauma resides in your nervous system. And it is, it is passed on in the craziest, weirdest environmental ways. And so, um,

Here's the best way I can explain it in my house. I'm good. I was well as could be. I had a great job, two healthy kids, a good marriage. And it was when my wife was, I was struggling connecting with my daughter. And my wife said, oh, John, you have a nuclear reactor in your chest. We all feel it. And I was like, what are you talking about? I don't yell. I don't swear. I don't do drugs. I don't drink. I'm doing all the right things. And she's like, of course you are. You're an amazing dad and a husband. But we can all feel it.

And I literally went to a trauma therapist out of, I was mad. I was kind of going a little bit of a temper tantrum. And so here's the only reason I'm saying that. Whenever a kid is deeply wrestling with anxiousness, I'm not right all the time. And so I'll never, never suggest I'm right, even close to all the time. Sure. But children often absorb tension from their environments, right?

They absorb, like this is the state with which they live and their body is saying, don't go to sleep. And that's where I want to often, so people will call me and say, hey, my kid's struggling with anxiety. I'll often say, how's your marriage? How are you and dad or how are you and mom doing?

individually well um so i actually i your show has helped my life so much i can't even tell you because my couple of attempts at counseling didn't go well but i found your show a couple months ago and i've had an autoplay and i ended up it's a dark few months

And no, it's been so helpful. And yes, I know, you know, you're never claimed to have perfect advice, but so many things you said have helped me so much. And I do believe, I know that my, my daughter's stress trauma comes down through her dad. Okay. What does that mean? So, yeah.

You know, you talk about the angry child, you know, who couldn't defend themselves and couldn't win a fight when they were young. And so now you have this full grown man and, you know, now he's trying to do that, you know, without realizing that's what he's doing. And so I've been married to one of those for 19 years and I actually shared that a

one of your, actually two of your episodes with him. I love him. He's a wonderful, wonderful man, but he had deep, horrific, incredible trauma growing up. I won't even begin to get into what he went through. His was physical, emotional, every kind of

of abuse that you could possibly suffer. And so his silence in the house could like crush rock. The silent bear in the living room. Yep. Oh yeah. And, and also the loud, never physical, but the emotional has been very hard to work through. Right.

talented, gifted man, you know, just cares about everybody, but not understanding where, you know, this was coming from in him. And so I had the...

I don't remember what you call it, but where I said, okay, so this is not going to go on anymore. And we've got one year on our 20th wedding anniversary. What is our marriage going to look like? Because this is no longer going to be part of it. But I love you and love.

I said, "Do you consider me to be a safe place for your heart? Are you ready to lay this down?" And he just looked at me and said, "I'm ready."

um I'm starting to and he was moved to tears and he thought I was leaving him because I had made an appointment to talk with him so all that to say I was trying to make it really brief but um I'm she has had a lot of hurt and trauma um from that relationship and I do know that I just don't know what I can do to help her you know from it so I'll tell you my house I'll tell you it's about it wasn't

It was about her dad, my daughter's dad, going to get some work done. And I'm going to tell you, I went to several people here in Nashville, Tennessee. And I'm a hard client to have. I'm Dr. John Deloney, and I have two PhDs. I'm hard, and I found somebody that just didn't give a crap who I was. She's amazing. Okay? But I had to go to several people. Okay. Okay? But here's the deal. I'm going to give you a couple of tips for your daughter.

Okay. But I think the help begins with your husband going to see somebody and say, I'm ready to set this stuff down. I'm ready to let the sleeping bear go back to the woods because I want my home to be a home of peace and I'm making it a home of fear. And I want you to continue to seek to find somebody, not to tell you what you want to hear, but somebody that will connect with you and teach you

You were right to be on guard your whole life. And I'm so sorry. And now we're going to work on having peace. We're going to practice it because you've never been able to have peace. Not even in the 19 years you've been married. And we're going to work with our daughter and we're going to, your daughter's body is a, it's an alarm system for the house. And there's some things I think we can do, but, um, or we can at least give it a shot. Right. Um,

But I would love for her to talk to somebody about angst and anxiety. There's not going to be like a, let's do some yoga or let's go like do some jumping jacks. This is nervous system stuff. Okay. And I know that when you called, you were hoping I would be like, oh yeah, yeah, just do this and this and this. And what I'm telling you is the whole energy in your home's got to shift because you're watching it lived out in real time.

Through your daughter's inability to just do a basic human function, which is to go to sleep. Am I right? I think, I think,

I do believe the level of stress and pressure that has existed in our home is most likely what has caused her to not be able to sleep. I would say during all the rest of the time, she is just a ray of sunshine. Of course she is. She doesn't have a generally anxious... I know, but listen. But Marie, listen. Oh, go ahead. You've probably heard me say this. You've probably heard me say this.

But sometimes, not always, but sometimes straight A's is a trauma response too. Sure. Yeah, I was valedictorian. There you go. And if she knows the safest path in her own home is to be, oh, golly gee, and whoot-de-hoo, then that's the mask she's going to wear. Sure. Okay? And so I never look at, no, no, no, my kid's smiling all the time.

That's not the disposition I use. I look at a lot of the basic human. Does your kid collapse asleep? Does your kid have the ability to withstand frustration? Have you taught him how to do that? Does your kid have the ability to hold a conversation with an adult and make eye contact? So some of those things I'm going to look at to see.

Because some kids are up, some kids are down, some kids are quiet, some kids are all over the place, and some kids are just kids, right? But I want to look at some of these basic social interactions. Is this kid able to hold the weight of that in an age-appropriate way or not? Because that's going to be the cue, not, no, no, they're great at baseball, or they make great grades, or no, they're always smiling. That's going to be my cue.

And so whatever's happening here, I want you to seek professional advice, okay? I want you to sit down with someone who can get to know your daughter, talk to her and begin to walk through some of the things she feels right before bed and some of the things that she's experiencing as she begins to lay down because she'll be able to articulate that. And you're just gonna pull that string all the way back. Now, here's one thing I want you to try with her, okay?

This is a weird thing. This is about nightmares, but it may work here. I've got no clinical evidence of this, okay? So if this makes something worse, then stop it immediately, okay? But when you have a nightmare and you're struggling with nightmares and nightmares, if you get up and you write down that nightmare, right when you have it, heart is beating fast, you're disgusted, whatever you're feeling, you write that nightmare down. And then a little bit later, you revisit that nightmare and you read it

And you give it a different ending. You create a new ending on that nightmare. And you continue. When you have a new nightmare, I'm going to feel it. And then once the smoke clears on my emotions, I'm awake. Sun is up. Okay. Then the guy came in with a knife.

And I realized it was not a knife. It was a balloon. And he took his mask off and it was my old roommate in college. And we died laughing. I was like, you got me. And then we went and got ice cream, right? We, I'm going to, I'm going to paint the picture or I got up and did a bunch of Kung Fu moves and I got him, but I'm going to rewrite the narrative and what you're doing in your bodies. You're re you're reestablishing control over that story.

I think that's worth giving a shot if she's having continuing to have you said these nightmares are starting to kind of peter off but as she's getting into bed and they've been get begins to get angsty and angsty and angsty and angsty and angsty I want to be left alone I don't be left alone I don't wanna be left alone a we're gonna call professional you're gonna call a professional you're gonna call professional okay and I want you to begin to articulate let's write that down let's write the story down and then how does it end

And then she hugged that teddy bear and fell fast asleep or however the fear ends, right? We're going to rewrite the story there. And she's 13, which is a little bit older. If she was a little bit younger, I might have her practice putting dolls to bed or practice putting figurines to bed and taking care. And you can watch and see as the voices that she uses and she can begin to craft and create a safe space.

But the fact that night terrors are still going on, that she is so hypervigilant to go to sleep. It's at this age, it's time to reach out to somebody because there's something underlying going on that's telling her body, do not go to sleep, don't go to sleep, don't go to sleep. Marie, you're a pillar of amazingness. It's not even a word, but what you've overcome to be where you are right now is amazing.

And I know more than anything, you want to drop your shoulders and just say, am I here yet? Am I here? I've been working for so long. I've been working so hard. I want to tell you, it sounds like you got here and y'all got a good exhale. And I'm so proud of you for drawing boundaries with your husband. I'm so proud of him for saying it's time. But I want you to know, I think the hard, hard work is ahead of you. And there's some deep emotional healing he needs to do and you need to do as y'all create your new marriage together, deal with your old nervous systems that are still bringing this stuff up.

And then we're going to create a home that our daughter's body feels safe in. And we're going to get her with a child psychologist or a child counselor ASAP to begin to navigate those waters. Marie, I'm so honored to have you listen to the show and be a part of it. You call anytime. I'm really, really grateful for you. Thank you for calling. We'll be right back.

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All right, we're back. All right, Kelly, this has been a tough, heavy show. Have something cool for us. All right, this is from Beth. She says, my now husband and I are part of your original 17 listeners. OG17. Hey, I'm thinking about having a tattoo artist make a tattoo for the OG17. Wouldn't that be dope? Be super unhealthy if somebody got that tattoo. You go first. I might do that. You would, too. I probably would. Yeah. All right.

So we found you when we were dating and listening to you over the years, approach different relational problems and talk about how to share stuff with your partner without accusation has been really helpful for me as I have tried to stare down a lot of relational dysfunction that I saw growing up and to do something new with the family that I am co-creating with my husband. Look at all those like deloney words. Good for her. My husband and I just celebrated two years of marriage and we ask each other on a regular basis, how can I love you best today?

and are able to share the story that I am telling myself this story, problems, which has been really helpful for us to know each other better and respond together to problems as they surface. We recently purchased a fixer-upper, which has been really challenging and has stretched us to find peace and calm in the midst of a bunch of projects.

Listening to your podcast has helped me remember to put my relationship first and has continued to help my husband and I to have a common language to reconnect during the crazy seasons. Thanks for putting out truth and light in the world and giving us an alternative language to speak words of truth and affirmation to each other. Well, good on her. That's a good way to end the show. Making me feel good about myself. What was her name again? Beth. Good on you. Thanks for saying nice things about...

All of us here on the show. Nate Dogg, Kelly, Be Money, Don Button, and the Mighty Taylor. Thank y'all so much. Hey, we, like, as a gang, I think sometimes we don't just stop and just exhale and be like, we're doing good in the world. Good on you guys. And also with you. And also with you. Hey, everybody listen and thank y'all for being with us. We love you guys and we will see you soon.