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Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. My husband and I have had two children. We are really struggling with our intimacy. And I think the shame is connected to me kind of feeling like our lack of connection and intimacy is just a failure. Who told you it was a failure? So many people. Parents, teachers, former therapists, friends. What in the world is going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm so grateful that you're here.
Talking about pretty much anything going on in your life, your relationships, your mental health, your emotional health. For 20 years, I've been sitting with people who thought their life was going to go one way, and now it's going a totally different direction. And those moments are hard. They're hard to navigate. The what do we do now moments. After you have kids, after you get married, after you get divorced, after you break up, after you find out somebody hurt you, what do you do now? And that's what this show is about.
If you want to be here, it's real people talking about real challenges. I'd love to have you on the show. Give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291. Or you can go to johndeloney.com slash ask and write in what's going on. Or if you call and leave a message and Kelly and the team will go through the calls and they create the show and hopefully they'll pick you. We do get calls from all over planet earth and we get tons and tons and tons and tons of them.
But I want to hear from you all.
John Deloney.com slash ask. And real quick, please just take a second and hit the subscribe button. It makes such a powerful difference. If you're watching this on YouTube, hit subscribe. If you are watching this or listening to this on, on some sort of podcast platform, leave a five-star review just to say amazing, right? Or just say awesome. Or just say like, God doesn't complete sentences all the way, but it's still pretty good. Whatever, whatever it is, hit the download button. But all of those little digital things,
thank yous makes such a big difference, kicks the show up in the algorithm and it puts it in front of that many more people. Super grateful for you, everybody who listens and the growth of the show continues to just astound us all as we sit in these meetings, but it's because of y'all. And I'm so grateful you're riding with us. All right, let's go to Denver, Colorado and talk to Brittany. What's up, Brittany? Hey, Dr. John. Thank you so, so much for taking my phone call today. I really appreciate it. I'm grateful that you called. What's going on?
So my husband and I have had two children and we are really, really struggling with our intimacy. And I'm calling in to get some advice and guidance as to how we can get that back and rebuild our connection. I can hear it. Your voice is this scary call to make? Incredibly scary. I'm proud of you. Thank you for your trust.
Thank you. I just feel so much shame. Yeah, I got you. Tell me about the shame. Tell me about it. My oldest is two and a half at the end of the month, and we also have an eight-month-old. So we are really in the core of the little kid years, all the struggles, the trials, the tribulations that come along with that. And I think the shame is connected to...
Me kind of feeling like our lack of connection and intimacy is just a failure, a failure of our marriage. And it hurts. Who told you it was a failure? So many people. It's kind of been the carousel that plays in my head. Parents, teachers, former therapists, friends. Just it's kind of been a...
overarching theme throughout my life. That you're a failure? Yes. Are you a good mom? I think so. I hope I am. No, that's not what I asked. I'm just asking you direct. Are you a good mom? Yes. Yeah, I think you are. Thank you. And are you also so exhausted? Beyond. Yeah, other planetary exhausted, huh? Correct.
So I'm hesitating right now because there's something I want to tell you, but I'm afraid it's going to be both comforting and really annoying. Okay. Are you in a place where you can be annoyed? Is that okay? And if you're not, that is to say, John, just shove it and move on to the next thing. And I'm happy to do that. I'm alone in my car. Okay. I'll be okay. Yeah. You're not crazy. You're totally normal.
Having an eight month old and a two and a half year old and struggling with sex and I'm assuming intimacy. It's veiled language for your sex life is just gone. And a husband that's stumbling around not knowing where he fits in this new picture and you trying to carry the weight of everything. And you're at the point where I can't carry it anymore. I want you to know that's totally normal. You're not nuts. You didn't fail anything. You're not crazy. You're not bad. You're not doing a bad job.
This is the part of the story that nobody tells you. Right. Okay? And I know that doesn't make it feel any better because you still want to connect with your husband and you still miss him and you still want to feel like you're actually successful at something, for God's sakes. And I get that. And so I know it's annoying when I tell you that, but the other, I want you just to relax in you're not crazy. You're not doing a bad job. Okay? Okay.
Yeah. Thank you. All right. As comfortable as you are to talk about it. And my wife tells me I'm real awkward because I just got to jump into these things all over with people at my dinner table and beyond. Tell me about how your sex life used to be and how it is now. I'll be honest. It's it's at the very beginning. It was, you know, hot and heavy, like most relationships are.
As time began to move on, it started to taper off a little bit. My husband is the first stable, safe relationship, romantic relationship that I've ever had in my entire life. So towards the beginning, maybe about a year in, is kind of when, as I mentioned, things started to taper off. I feel like I began to kind of push him away because I was so scared of...
the kindness, the lack of chaos. I was kind of trying to create it, if that makes sense. We were able to move forward and, you know, try to rebuild from there and continue working on...
our sex and different things in our relationship. Four years ago, we got married. We've been together for a total of nine years, married again for four. That was the height of COVID. Of course, we had a very small, you know, 10-person allowed ceremony. And then the next year, 2021, is when I became pregnant with our first.
During that time, I think it was very unique on the curtails of the pandemic, being pregnant. It was kind of scary. Scared but excited for this new chapter that would come about in our relationship.
During that pregnancy, I was very uncomfortable. I gained a lot of weight. So the intimacy during the pregnancy definitely started to taper and it kind of began to fully spiral from then. And now we're in 2024. We welcomed our second child late fall of last year and it got to the point where we kind of
forgot or couldn't even name the last time that we had been intimate. What perpetuated this call particularly is everything kind of came to a head a couple months back when I returned to work after my maternity leave. Both births of both of my children were incredibly traumatic physically, spiritually, and emotionally.
Our second child was actually born premature, so she had a 32-day NICU stay, which was... That's a whole different conversation for a different day. I was returning back to work a couple months ago, and my husband and I were fighting, and it kind of got to the point where...
he threw around the C word. It feels like we're just co-parents. We don't even have sex anymore. A lot of things were said out of anger, but I could tell with my husband's personality that they were things that he shoved so far down that were just kind of starting to bubble up. And that's when we kind of, as you say, turned the music off, turned the lights on and said, we are like six inches away from each other, but miles away. What happened? And we've
Kind of been trying to push forward from there, but it kind of feels like our feet are in quicksand and we're still very, very disconnected. Um, man, one thing is I'm glad the C word was co-parents. You said he used the C word. I was like, wait, wait, what? What does he do? Okay. So your co-parents. Okay. Phew. Yeah.
I want you to go back and listen to how you just explained that because you have painted a picture where basically for 10 years, every part of the intimacy problems, every part of your sex life problems has been your fault. You pushed him away. You gained weight. You had never had a steady boyfriend. You did this. You did this. You did this. You did this. And what I promise you is this challenge, this place you'll find yourself, which is very common for people with two young kids, two years and younger, is
To not be having sex. To not even know what day it is, right? Because they're still operating on old operating instructions with a whole new chaotic new world. This problem is co-created. Y'all created it together. And you may not have thought that or have thought through it because you've been looking at what can you do? What can you do? How can I fix this? How can I fix this? But as you mentioned, he stuffed stuff down for 10 years, right? Yeah.
Yeah. And so both of you have just slowly found your way here. The good news is if y'all want to and y'all work together, you can co-create your way into something totally magical and amazing and full of other problems too. Nothing's perfect, but you can co-create your way out of this. But it's going to take both of you. It's going to take both of you. I want to go back to this story you tell yourself, which is,
I've only had one boyfriend that was safe my whole life. And so any issues in this relationship are my fault. Tell me more about that. I didn't really date around before meeting my husband. I had a total of three relationships and romantic relationships in my entire life. My first relationship was
Um, I thought things would be great. And, um, I was not, I was very young and I was not in a place where I wanted to have sex or, you know, pursue that side of the romantic relationship at the age that I was. And, um, I don't care what age you are. You don't ever have to pursue sex if you don't want to. Yeah. Um, yeah, he felt differently. And, um,
I was date raped. He had flipped something while we were out. Oh, God, I'm so sorry. Yeah. And that was kind of his way of getting what he wanted from that relationship. And it got to the point where enough was enough, and I ended things, and...
Ironically enough, after I had broken up with him, I began talking with my now husband. And I was so afraid of the lack of chaos and craziness that was going on, I ghosted him. Hey, Brittany. Brittany, Brittany, Brittany. You were drugged and raped. Mm-hmm. Yes.
intimacy and sex for you with somebody you trusted and somebody you told your values up front, this is where I feel comfortable with physically and intimately right now. Your body's put a pin in that as a moment of violence, as a moment of protection. So moments of intimacy for you are terrifying, aren't they? Incredibly. Scary. Yeah. And the one thing that you want more than anything is to be free and wild and
rocking on till the break of dawn and that's the one thing your body won't let you have because it was stolen from you. Yeah. I'm so sorry, man. It still hurts so much. I know it does. I know, I know, I know. I know. And I don't want to paint a picture with a broad brush. I'm just piecing together the story you told me. My guess is you pushed away, you pushed away and then things got hot and heavy in the next relationship because that was your way of reclaiming it.
Um, in the next, it did start off hot and heavy and then it quickly became physically abusive. I was getting beat on a day to day basis going to, um, school with bruises and, um, it took a long time to get out of that relationship too. Yeah. So then this guy comes along and he's finally safe and he's finally a good guy. Yes.
Very good, very kind. He was the first person to say, hey, I would like to take you out. Would you like to go have dinner with me? I had never been asked that before. It was always kind of the feeling of, oh, what can they get for me? He was the first person to want to celebrate me, in a sense, to honor me, to just go break bread with me, talk about dreams and aspirations. To build a life with.
Yes. Yeah. So here's your challenge right now. I'm going to put aside here and I need to say this before we can move on. I really want you to get off this call and call somebody in Denver that you can start talking to because I want you to heal from what happened. Okay? Yeah. You haven't talked to anybody. Now's the time. If you have talked to somebody, it's still really fresh right there. Do you have daughters? Yes. Okay. This narrative is going to haunt your body as they get older.
I know. I want you to go talk to somebody. Okay. It's not because you're weak. It's not because you're broken. It's not because something's wrong with you. It's because your nervous system said, I'm going to be damned if this ever happens to you again. We're going to fight. We're going to push people away. We're going to scream. We're not going to sleep all night. We're going to stay awake and we're going to do whatever we got to do to make sure that never happens again. Cause I trusted that guy. I trusted the next guy.
Okay? So that's off to the side here, but that's foundational to you moving forward and healing yourself, healing your role as a mom, and healing your marriage, okay? Okay. I know that's a big responsibility, but I'm putting it at your feet because nobody else can get that kind of healing but you. And you have to decide I'm worth that kind of healing. And I'm telling you, I don't lie on this show, I'm telling you right now you're worth that, okay? Okay. All right, here's the beautiful thing about the picture you painted after all that stuff happened. That man, your husband, is still in there.
And here's a couple of weird paradoxes that I'm going to lay in front of you, okay? You've probably heard me say this, but I want you to hear me say it in your particular home. You work so hard when you're dating, and in the first year or two of being married, you work so hard establishing safety. Like the romance, the desire, that's everywhere, right? It's all over the place.
You don't have to practice that kind of stuff. It's just everything's like, I just want to make out all the time. I want to be together all the time. I want to hold his hand all the time, but I'm practicing. Is he going to be a guy that, that hits me? Is he going to be a guy that drugs me? Is he going to be a guy that answers the call that answers the phone when I text him or call? And so you're practicing safety. And just like you described it after a year or so when state safety is established,
It's a weird paradox where for many people, safety and that rambunctious romance, right? That flirting, that desire that I just want to be with him. I just want to be with him. It wanes, right? The body exhales. And so in that weird way, after you've practiced safety for three years, four years, five years, y'all dated for five years before you got married, right?
Now we have a choice, just like you said. He wants to get to know you. He wants to break bread with you. Those same principles are going to apply now because the challenge you're running into is you keep trying to get back to your first two years. They all were together, and those years are over. Now you've got two wild kids, right, and a job and responsibilities, and you're back at work too, and you've got financial stress. You've got all this stuff going on. And so the question is, where can I find release now?
Where can I find adventure? Where can I find joy? Where can I find I can't wait until? Anticipation. In sex and connection and intimacy, what has to be true for that world to reemerge? Have you ever sat down and said, I really love the following three to five, seven things? Like these things really feel good to me? No. Okay. I don't even think my body has allowed me to
Get there. I feel like I've just been stuck in freeze, fight, fight, or freeze, you know? Yeah. And tell me if this, if this rings true with you, when you know that your husband needs sex, the man you love needs sex, you're a trooper, you love him, but needs go on a chore list. You need to get diapers. You need to make sure the kid's bottles are warmed up and you need to make sure he has sex. So you, you put that on your chore list.
Yep. And eventually you get tired and some things have to fall off the chore list. I can't take the trash out tonight. I'm too tired. I'm not making the, doing the, I'm not washing the whatever. Tonight I'm tired. We're not having sex. I'm tired. Yes. Needs are very different than wants. I want you to, when we get off this call and after you make a call, the call to a counselor, because I want you to meet with a therapist, okay? But I want you to pick up Emily Nagoski's masterpiece called Come As You Are.
And it's a book that probably you and your husband should read together and it will be very challenging for you. Okay. But it is a masterpiece in a teaching a woman to walk through this crazy question that for some reason, nobody ever teaches and nobody ever talks about when it comes to sex and sexuality for a woman is what are you like? Like, what are you into? And most women are like, I never even asked that question. I haven't thought about that question.
Or you catch glimpses of it. Or I've heard sex referred to, well, it's just like a big hug. And I just want to say like, no, no, no. And when I say hug, like there's a safety, there's an intimacy and it just feels nice. But I want to say like, no, no, no, there's so much more. There can be so much more. But as you begin to ask, like, what do I actually like? What do I actually want? What am I actually into? Then he gets to say, not, I need some sex or like, I really, like he gets to say, here's what I want. I'm going to try this.
What if we, how about, and now we're getting the anticipation, the adventure, the heart rate gets up, the yeesh, okay, right? Yeah. And now you're having a connected moment. And by the way, sex is going to be less frequent with two kids under like two and a half, especially after two traumatic births, especially as you're healing from some pretty significant sexual abuse and physical abuse. And he loves you. He said till death do us part. So he's going to be with you during the healing process.
And some days y'all are going to start sex and it's going to be hot and heavy. And then your body's going to shut you off. And he's going to be, he's not, he's not going to be excited about it, but he's going to be right there with you. And all we're going to do is begin to step into, okay, the marriage we had is over. What are we going to build now? And do you see how that question asked that way takes all the pressure off all that stuck in mud stuff. It's like, yeah, we're done driving this car. It's in the mud. We're not going to get out. We're gonna have to walk through the mud for a bit, but we're going to get in that car over there. It's on the road.
And we get to decide where we drive next. How does that sound? It sounds a little scary. What's scary about it? I guess just something that I heard you say a few moments ago was, you know, the first two years of our relationship are over, right? But I feel like he, my husband still kind of goes back to that. And he said,
In the past, you know, I just wish we could go back to how things were, how things used to be. So to me, it feels scary to kind of put it all on the table. It is. It's terrifying. Because what if he just wants what it used to be? What if deep down, it's just he's here because we're married and there's a lot of logistics that go with that. What if he doesn't want something new? What if he does?
Yeah. What if he does? What if he loves you so much and he doesn't know how to reach you? And what if the idea of, I'll just say it direct because this is this show, right? We can say whatever we want on the show. Many guys struggle with the idea of having sex with a mom. It's a role shift. Same as many guys sometimes have trouble having sex with their wife, with the label, right? It's just different.
Because wives are like this and moms are like this. And it's just different, right? Yeah. And what if he misses you so bad? And the only time he's seen you smile, because you've had two traumatic pregnancies, you've had all this abuse, but he remembers a moment when you were smiling. And you think it's about some kind of sex act. You think it's about some kind of partying you used to do. Maybe he just misses you. And he and his clumsy...
just being a dad, going to work kind of way, doesn't have the language to say, I miss when you used to just light up like a light bulb. Let's do that. And the challenge for you is not to create stories about the things he says, but to, let me just say it this way. There is no other path forward other than to put everything on the table. So you and I will never be who we used to be. And thank God, because we're different now. And we have these two amazing angels in our home.
And also we get to be whatever we want moving forward. What do we want that to be? And you can say things like, I want to learn to really love sex. I want to love it. And part of me loving that is I'm going to have to say, I need some help with some things because sex for you might start at noon, way outside the bedroom, right?
And sex may start with you feeling supported and loved and him helping out with diapers and with this and helping out with cleaning up throw up. And it might help with bathing the kids and it might help with some financial security. Who knows? I don't know. I'm just, I'm just spitballing things, but you can say a lot. I want to learn. That's my adventure. I want to learn to love sex. And what a, what an awesome thing to practice learning to love, right? Yeah.
And I'm confident that he wants to continue to love to learn it too. And he doesn't want to be a chore either. He just doesn't have another picture. And you are right to be scared about what comes next because you trusted somebody and they took everything from you. And then you trusted somebody else and they physically hurt you. Both of them physically hurt you. So your body's instinct to protect you from these things is right and it's good. And the vulnerability to move next and build something new is right and good also.
terrifying scary and so in in order of importance here is I want you to call a therapist today and I want you to get in as soon as possible and I want y'all to figure out the money part of it and I know everybody's struggling right now this is really important because that sins that sits really close to the top for you that's still right at the tip top of your heart it's right at the tip top your nervous system and I want you to get in there ASAP I also want you to sit down with your husband and say I love you
You're the safest most stable person i've ever been i'm terrified of losing you And also we have two little kids and we just have a new life and we got to figure out how to do this And if he wants to call in the show i'd love to talk to him because he sounds like he's a great guy He's just stuck and he's just spinning his wheels Sounds like he's an amazing man trying to figure it out trying to figure it out trying to figure it out And I want you all to order that book emily nagatsuki's come as you are we'll link to it in the show notes Um and read it together
And y'all can have some deep discussions you've never had before. You'll end up in tears in some places and you'll end up laughing in some places and you'll end up in some really intimate conversations. And some of it will be good. Some of it will be stuff you got to talk to your therapist about. Some of it will be amazing. Some of it will be, eh, all right, it's cool. Let's move on. Then you can start being honest about saying things like, I really want to love sex and I really want to love connection. I really want to love intimacy and
And so we're both going to take like crooked wobbly steps forward into what this new world is going to be like. And by the way, somebody's got to go get the kid, right? Because the kid's crying. Thank you so much for your bravery, Brittany. And thank you so much for being a blessing to so many people. The courage looks like this is what bravery looks like. And I cannot wait to see what your healing journey looks like. And I can't wait to see what you and your husband decide to build and create next.
Tell them to give me a call anytime. You call me back anytime. I'll walk with you all the way. Hang on the line. I'm going to hook you up with a copy of Own Your Past, Change Your Future. I want you to read that book after you read Emily's book. Thank you so much, Brittany. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.
So my wife and I were meeting the other day about the back-to-school madness that is about to be on us. We've got my travel schedule, her work schedule, our daughter's new school and clothes and forms to fill out and all these online portals and my son's sports schedule and he's got to have shoes every two weeks because his feet won't stop growing and how are we going to pay for all this and on and on and on.
And when we step back and look at our schedule, it's so packed and we haven't even put in the things like exercise, date nights, counseling appointments, church and holiday trips and big home projects. And these are the things that make life worth living. And I listened to y'all. This is your life too. And here's what I've learned. When it comes to taking care of me, my family and my work, I have to begin with the things that matter most and the things that keep me well and whole so I can wade into the chaos and be sturdy and present and strong.
you too. So as you're planning your upcoming end of summer and fall plans, make sure you don't skip date nights, don't skip regular exercise, and don't skip your regular therapy appointments. Yes, therapy can be hard work, but can also help make the rest of your life possible.
When it comes to therapy, I want you to consider calling the team at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy staffed with licensed therapists. It's convenient, it's flexible, and it's suited to fit your schedule.
With a good therapist, you can learn things like positive coping skills, how to set boundaries, how to deal with all the chaos going on in your life, and how to be the best version of yourself. In this upcoming season, make sure you put on your oxygen mask first. Never skip therapy day. Call my friends at BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash deloney today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash deloney.
All right, let's go out to Hunter in McKinney, Texas. Hey, Hunter, what's going on, brother? How you doing, doctor? Doing all right, my man. What's up with you? Oh, wow. I didn't think I was going to be nervous doing this, but I'm actually a little more nervous than I thought. I'm going to try to give you some context to understand this question. Okay. I want you to picture four guys.
that grew up elementary, junior high, high school, and then even parts of college together. That's my gang. I got that exact gang in my life. Yeah, and there was even some more on the periphery. But that was a pretty tight group. Yes, sir. And I want you to imagine one of these guys kind of falls off the radar a little bit, has some things happen in his life,
um, finds himself living under a bridge in Dallas, Texas. Now they were talking about guys that grew up in an upper middle-class neighborhood. Parents all had good jobs, no excuses for anything like this, not even drugs or alcohol involved. The real issue is the guy's been getting catfished to the tune of over $400,000.
And three of these friends that are his friends have been trying everything in the world we can think of to make him see it, and he will not see it. And I originally called you to ask you, what do we do to help him? But the more I think about it, we kind of need some help too. We have all been dealing with this because...
You just, I don't know. I mean, we've done everything we can. We're at our wit's end. Yeah. I think one of the hardest things a person can experience is watching somebody they love refuse to take their help as they slowly dismantle their lives with choices. Yes, sir. And you're losing a brother. And you know it. You've lost a brother.
Yeah. And then when you lose a brother like that, as hard as you've been trying, you lose a brother and you lose confidence in yourself because you have this picture painted of these four Texas guys of we would never leave each other. We ride or die no matter what. And then you find yourself in this situation. Exactly. I think you just said something that may have hit a little closer to home. We're suffering because we had a picture of
And we can't, we're failing. We can't. You're not, honey. You're not. You can't talk like that. You're not. You didn't fail him. The problem with the relationship is it has to go two ways. Love has to go two ways. Brotherhood has to go two ways. We just let him live under that bridge? What's your alternative? You're going to go beat him up and kidnap him? He'll have you arrested and put in jail.
Yeah, we drag him up out of there every week or so and put him in a hotel that's walking distance. We've got his telephone away. We got his phone away from him. We got his chime card away from him because that's how he was given the money away. And he's convinced that there's a half a billion dollars waiting for him if he can just get the right combination of helping them with the next problem. He thinks it's girls that are
That he's working towards, and it's some guy in Africa probably. Is he schizophrenic? No. How do you know? No. How do you know? Well, okay, from a clinical offering, no. We don't know. Has he always been a little more difficult than the others? Yeah. But 57 years, doctor. We know what Wright looks like, and he ain't that far off.
I think you're so close to it, you can't see it. Okay, that's possible. Y'all are so close to it, and you love him so deeply, and y'all have a picture of all these adventures y'all used to go on. You know that guy. You know the guy you went to college with. You know the guy that y'all played high school ball with. You know the guy that y'all dated girls together. Y'all know the guy you got in fistfights together and played music together. You know all that guy, and that's not the guy that's sitting under the bridge. True that.
And one of the most disturbing, challenging things as we get older is you get to be 40, you get to be 50, you get to be 60, and you find out, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You hit your wife? What? Right? You didn't know that was possible. I thought I knew that guy. You owe what in gambling losses, right? And you thought you knew somebody. It happens in our churches. It happens in our friendships. It happens at work. And so my challenge to you is this, is...
Maybe he is just clear-eyed as a West Texas sunset, and he just believes that this woman loves him, and she's got a half a billion dollars for him. I'd be willing to bet he's suffering from some sort of pretty significant psychiatric disorder, or he's been using drugs in a way that y'all had no idea. I don't think it's the latter. I think it's the former. I really do. I mean, we've been...
Yeah, it's the former. Okay. Well, here's the thing. Let me tell you this, though. There's a lot of pride wrapped up, and we would know. We would know. And I've sat with people who were abused by someone in their family, and yes, there is shock and awe and horror at the abuse, but often the unwinding is, how did I not see that? And it's easier. The reason abuse often goes unspoken for so long is people can't
I would know if I saw it. And I'm just telling you that for this. I'm not trying to put anything into the universe that's not there. I'm just telling you, over the years, you love this man so much. And you love the idea of the brotherhood so much. You're squeezing every variable so tightly that, man...
If it happened to be that he was doing drugs, that would unwind your picture of yourself and these guys so much that I can't even live in that reality. So I'm just going to stay here. You get what I'm saying? No, I do. I do. And so I think we'll leave room for that. Yeah, we'll leave room for that. We really will. But at this point, I just I need somebody to tell me what to do next. You got to walk. We walk. You got to walk away.
That's what we've done. Because here's the deal. He has looked at you, a man that you love, and said, I do not want your help, and I do not want your love, and I do not want your care, and I do not want your money. Okay. Just needed to hear somebody say it. And I need you and your boys to get together and pray for him. I need you and your guys to get together and make him a card that says, when you're ready, here's the number. We'll be there. And even if y'all want to feel like you're doing something and y'all set up a checking account somewhere that everybody puts 50 bucks in a month just to say that we're doing something so that if he ever decides I need help, there's some money right there.
Good idea. But that'll give you something to do with that energy, right? And if y'all want to go be an angel and drop food off to him and stuff like that, y'all can do that. And, man, I wish this wasn't as close to home to me as...
Man, I'm just, I was telling you at some point you have to say, I loved as best as I could. And at some point I'm trying to fix him. I'm trying to use him to make me feel better about the situation. You're right. That's it. That's right down the middle, right down the middle. He doesn't deserve that in a weird backwards kind of way. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.
All right. Well, I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. Anytime. Hey, will you tell me, like, how's that landed on you? Don't be a Texas male on me just yet. Like, how's that landed on you? It's kind of landing right in the rib cage, right? Okay. Yeah. Okay. So we...
We got to let it go. I mean, you know, you grew up in Texas. You know, Texas guys, we don't just give up when the first rock lands. We keep swinging at it. That's right. Especially if you're a Red Raider. Guns up! That's right. That's right. And I think there's honor in that. And I think there's honor in loving somebody enough.
And maybe you do a well check. Maybe you call, you know, call the authorities. And if you, I'm sure y'all have checked out all the local programs there. Um, but yeah, we got him into one. We got him into one and he checked himself out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think you and your other two buddies, your other two brothers, I think y'all put your heads together, put your arms around each other and you make a commitment to each other that we're going to continue to love each other.
And that when he calls, we'll all be ready and we're going to hold each other accountable. But y'all are going to have to do something that Texas men don't do very well. No men does it very well. And that's grieve. Realize there is a limit to your power over the world. Yeah. And Texas men are especially that's in our, that's in the water is y'all can do anything. Right. I know. Cause that's where I was raised. And there's a, there's a terror. There's a fear when you get to the end and you go, Oh, I couldn't fix that. Yeah. It's heartbreaking. Sad.
Maybe an exercise for all three of you would be to write him a letter that you're not going to send him until his eyes clear up. You all write him a letter and that exercise of, hey, brother, I'm letting you go, but I'm going to be here as soon as you're ready. But I want you to get that that's in your rib cage. I want you to get that out of your body onto a piece of paper. Good idea. Otherwise, it'll haunt you. Really good idea. Okay. And maybe you all can get together and have a glass of whiskey and sit around a fire and read your letters to your brother, to each other. Yep. You all can grieve together.
And let me tell you this. That man is, oh, God, not much chokes me up. Hold on. That man is blessed beyond measure to have you as his friend. Thank you. He won the damn friend lottery having you and those other two men in his life. Thank you. You didn't fail. You didn't quit on him. You honored his wishes, and you let him tip his hat and turn and walk away. And you'll be there the moment he turns back around. Thank you, doctor. All right, my brother. Appreciate your call, man. I know that was a hard call to make, and I'm grateful for you.
Everybody else out there who's got close friends, you don't have a lot of opportunities to make 50 or 60-year friends, 30, 40-year friends. Hang on to them tight. Love well. We'll be right back. All right, we have to talk about the greatest sleep innovation since the invention of the mattress. I'm talking about 8Sleep.
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All right, let's go out to Portland, Oregon and talk to Jenny. Hey, Jenny, what's up? Hi there. How are you? I'm pretty good. Excellent. Except for this situation.
I'm great. Otherwise, I wouldn't be calling you. So what's up? Yeah. So I'm kind of struggling with an old tenant who we had living on our property. She lived with us for three and a half years in our guest house, and we live kind of rurally outside of town. And...
I gave her an eviction notice. I gave her like a 90-day eviction notice so that she could find a place to live. And she ended up eventually finding a place on like day 88, moved in with this person, and then she started texting me messages about two weeks after she found this place that...
They were accusing her of being an alcoholic, and that's why I evicted her and stealing. But, you know, they were trying to take her pain pills. And her texts and arguments that she was having with this new person that she was living with
It just kind of escalated and escalated. And eventually she texted me about a month after that she was being evicted from that place. And now she's living in hotels, motels, and running out of money. And...
I know that she... At that time, without asking, she wasn't asking for my help, but I know that she was asking for my help. And then she did start asking me for money and for help, and I just didn't want to. My husband and I evicted her for reasons, and...
I struggle with the guilt of knowing that she really has no one to turn to. And, but I don't want to be the person that she continues to rely on. And I don't really know what to do and if I should just keep ignoring her, which is kind of what I've done. Um, or if I should do something to help her. You have a great heart and, um,
I'm grateful for landlords out there like you that give people tons of extra grace when things get sideways. She was late for a long time, wasn't she? I mean, she was an alcoholic, and she was very dependent on me, and it became too much. I got...
It got to a point where I was really angry and resentful of her in my house or in my space. And so that's why I had to give her notice. And you chose guilt over resentment. I don't want to hate you, and I don't want to hate coming to my own home.
Yeah. And so you need to go get the help that you need. This sounds like a callous question, but it's just so rudimentary. What is prohibiting her from going to a local organization there in Portland to get help with her addiction challenges? What's preventing her from getting a job?
was preventing her from seeking local services. So I don't, yeah, she is on, um, she is on disability. She has like some kind of back injury, but she does not have a vehicle. We had offered at one point to like help her purchase a vehicle. You know, we would purchase an expensive vehicle and she could make payments to us if that was the case. I think she gets about $1,200, um, on disability and then she's on food stamps. She, um,
so she kind of thinks that she can't work. Um, I did give her, you know, at one point I sent her a message and was like, you know, I can't, I've done it. I can't help you. You know, here's some like the crisis help, you know, hotline, maybe they can help you. Yeah. Um, I don't think she thinks that she has a problem. Um,
But I'm the one who, because she didn't have a car and we literally live like, you know, 40 minutes outside of town with no, no services between us. There's no gas station. There's no, uh, um,
There's no, you know, grocery store or anything. So she was very dependent on me. I picked up her... She would order, you know, groceries from Walmart, and I would pick them up for her. And I would pick up her two cases of wine every two weeks, and I would go to the liquor store for her. And... Jenny, you participated then. You played along. Yes. Yes, I did. And then I got to the point where I was... And then I thought, well, you know, she...
I was judging her, definitely, in that, you know, like... As you're picking it up from the store? Yes. You know, and I think, too, I know that I have guilt about it, too, because she...
I tried to take her into my community, our neighbors and family and friends, and she would come over for my kids' birthdays. And she would come over on Christmas because she lived in our little guest house. And I...
I just, but I just became like done with her. And I mean, I gave her, I told her, I lied to her about why she needed to move out. I told her that my mother-in-law was going to be spending more time up there and, you know, needed the guest house. But that's partly because eviction laws in Oregon are very, very strict. They're very lenient to the tenant. And that was an easy out and it's semi partially true, but not fully. Yeah.
At the end of the day, what I don't want you to do is to begin to slippery slope some of these things, like buy alcohol for someone you know is struggling with alcohol, to make trips for somebody that you're just angry the whole way you're making the trip. Invite somebody into your family's life that you know is going to cause issues and make you upset about the whole event. And then at the end of the day, like end up lying about why I'm kicking you out. Like, I don't want you to become somebody that you lose respect for.
Right. In the process of not just trying to avoid a few really hard conversations. Yeah. Because what happens is that loss of respect you have for yourself gets channeled and dropped onto her and that's not really fair. Right. Like she's hurting, she's struggling, she needs more help than you're able to provide her, both cognitively, like physically, physiologically, like she needs some help. And it's beyond your scope of ability to help. Yeah.
But all the other animosity and hatred and frustration and just all that stuff, not hatred. That was probably strong. But all the, all this stuff is. Yeah. It's you trying to avoid having a few really direct, hard conversations with somebody that probably admittedly can't hear those conversations. Yeah. So my, my, in many ways, she's more than a tenant because in many ways you function as a caretaker. Right. And you, you also, you,
Man, kind of went past the caretaker role and invited it into Christmas, into family, into friends events and things, right? Yes, very much. So I'm saying this with no context for how she can hear things, okay? I'm assuming she can hear stuff. She is just a person struggling with her disability. She's struggling with some sort of low-level emotional disorders. She's struggling with alcohol abuse.
I think that person warrants sitting down at a coffee shop, not at your house and saying, I am telling you I can no longer help. Here is a sheet where I've printed off all the resources. I'm going to block your number and I am going to hope that you go get the help and care that you need. It's exceeded my ability to help you. Okay. And that might be a terribly hard conversation to have. And I have a firm belief.
on my own that I don't say things to people who can't hear them. So if she can't hear it, if she'll just blow right by it and be like, hey, so what time are you coming to pick me up? Then maybe not responding is the correct path or calling local services and asking them to do a well check on her is the local path. But that's going to be for you to gauge and judge. But all that to say is you don't owe a former tenant anything
continued support and services indefinitely and when you i don't i don't know that it's exactly i don't know that it's honest to call her just a tenant because you invited her into much more of your life than just a tenant yeah yeah how does that sit with you no i i agree with that and i think i i and i i know that's where i kind of struggle because i i've come to the
realization that you know she's she saw me as a friend and somebody yeah that she could you know rely on and I blurred that line with that and I think and I don't think I don't personally don't think that she is really open to hearing anything I mean she is a very much a
victim mentality of that. Then if that's the case, if that's the case, if that's the lens with which she sees the world, then you already know going into this that her opinion of you has already been shaped. You are another in a long line of people who have victimized her. So you avoiding that victim judgment that she stamps on the world, why would you avoid that? It's already happened.
And so enter into the conversation, enter into whatever your next move is with your head held high and be a person of integrity and treat her with dignity and respect. And treating somebody with dignity and respect, it doesn't mean that you have to support them indefinitely forever, forever. Amen. It means you have to know the scope of your limits. I can't do anymore. I'm unable to do anymore. I don't want to do anymore.
I gave you three years and this is the, like, this is as much as I can do. Right. Um, but you have to make that call for yourself for whatever reason. I just, I take this for what it is. I have a, like, uh, just a thing in my guts, like in my chest that handing her a list of resources to say, these are some people who can actually help you with some of the challenges you have. I don't have any challenges. That's great. Um,
But I'm unable to help you any further. And so I'm asking you, don't send me any of your texts about midnight terrors. I want you to call this number, the authorities. Don't send me any more texts about somebody trying to poison you. If somebody's trying to poison you, you call 911. I can't help any other way. If somebody kicks you out, here's the local housing authority and on and on and on. And she might not be able to hear it. Cool. You can mail that letter if that's appropriate. I don't even know if she has a mailbox address now that I said that. But I feel like letting her...
you invited her in i think letting her know i'm showing you the door now in whatever way appropriate whatever way she can hear that feels like the right honorable thing to do and i do know that it's going to be very hard to do that but it feels like the right thing to do other than just ghosting somebody or just not not responding unless of course that person can't can't understand a response or a response is not heard in the way the response was intended it's it's an open invitation to reignite the entire fire so
That's a sticky, sticky mess, Jenny. Thank you so much for just walking through it with me and thinking through it with me. And let's do the next right thing and don't ever lose yourself. And this is not just for you, it's for all of us. May we never lose ourselves by trying to avoid a hard conversation or avoid a confrontation. May we never lose ourselves, our integrity, our dignity, our respect for each other and for ourselves. Peace by peace by peace by peace. Thanks for the call. We'll be right back.
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All right, we're back, Kelly. Who's the problem? All right, this is from Karina. She says, I had to set a boundary with an in-law and it ended badly. This person is an extrovert and I am an introvert. Their favorite method of communication is to call and they did this almost daily. I would rather have someone shoot me a text instead of being forced to speak over the phone if it's just a chit chat. I let this go on for far too long because I didn't want to offend them.
One day I decided to ignore the phone call and not call them back. It was brought up by them the next time that we spoke. I ended up saying that we need to find a balance because I don't like to talk over the phone constantly. They laughed it off, but literally stopped calling. It ended the confrontation and we no longer speak or see one another. Could I have handled this better? Am I the problem? No. There's this unspoken rule that if somebody knocks on your door, if somebody calls you or somebody texts you,
There's like some cosmic law that you have to return it. And I just don't buy that. You are offering, here you go. Like I'm offering you some information or I'm going to sell you some cookies or I'm reaching out to you. Like I'm trying to connect with you. I get to choose whether I take your end of the plug and put it into, like, I get to choose that. And then if somebody, because you didn't answer the phone one time and you go, oh yeah, I just, I'm not a phone person. I just am. I'm a texter.
They never talk to you ever again. I think you've got all the answers that you need. So, yeah, I think I've talked about on the show. I call my buddy who's a country music guy. And I was like, hey, man, when did you change your number? And we talked through it. And I said, I just get so many calls and so many texts. And I just feel it's obligation. And he goes, yeah, you can change your number or you could just be a grown up. I respond all the time if you don't have time or the bandwidth or the emotional capacity or whatever's going on. I was like, oh, yeah.
I can do it on my own terms. So, yeah, you think so? I agree, 100%. Yep. Well, look at that. What was her name? Karina. Karina. Anna Karina? What's the play? Anna Karenina. Well, you made that weird. It's Karina. Not all the N-N-N-N-N-N-nas. That's B-A-N-A-N-A-S. Man, your look is so mean sometimes. All right, Anna Karina N-N-N-N-na, you are not the problem. We have deemed whoever else the serial caller guilty.
is the problem. Man, what a wild world we live in. Hey man, I just don't have time to talk every day, but I'll give you a buzz back when I can. I hate you. What a weird world. Wow. Love you guys. Bye.
