Can Our Marriage Survive His Lies? 01:04:57

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I had been lying and hiding things from my wife. He doesn't want to be told what to do. That triggers him. Either you have a psychiatric challenge, you've got a significant pathology with an ability to filter the truth, or you are incredibly immature.

What in the world's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. I am back in town and I'm excited to be back in the chair, hanging out with you, talking about your emotional health, your relationships, dating, marriage, kids, schools, work, whatever you got going on in your life. I care about you. And I think that most people, I travel the country all the time, and I think that most people

Almost all of us want to have a better life. And I actually think if we sat down and we made a long list of the things we all agree on, I want my kids to be safe. I want my home to be safe. I want my marriage to be better. I want my kids to actually want to be around me. I want to be healthier. Whatever things you're going on, going through, I think we are all way closer aligned than we think we are.

And that's what this show is about, dude. Pulling up a chair and let's sit down and figure out what's the next right step for you, for the person you care about, for the people you need to walk away from. Whatever's going on in your world, let's figure it out together. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask. A-S-K. And...

huge, huge help if you will. It's a huge help if you will hit the subscribe button, if you'll hit the like button, the whatever down, whatever special button on whatever digital wizardry Harry Potter device you're listening to this thing on. It does matter. It makes such a huge difference. Thank you, thank you, thank you for those of you who've done that. It helps across the board. All right, for our first call today, we have a follow-up call from a man in Dallas, Texas named Steve who called in.

He called in to talk about something he was struggling with. He's continuing to struggle with that same thing. And this time his wife is on. So let's see how this plays out. All right, let's go out to line two. Hey, Steve, what's up, man? You there? I am here. Excellent, man. Excellent. Morning. Good morning. All right. So I'm going to bring on Melissa. Let's see here. Melissa, are you there?

Yes. All right. So Steve and Melissa from Dallas. All right. So Steve, you called the first time. Give us a recap and let me know what's going on. The recap was that I had been lying and hiding things from my wife. I'm on my third marriage and just didn't know where to go, how to handle it, what to do with it all. And then...

The lies continued, honestly. And Melissa found out. And three weeks ago, we kind of separated for a couple weeks. She was done and then asked me back. And I'm back at the house, but we're in the process of splitting. And she reached out to you and asked me to be on with you.

To see what to do. Okay. Or see where, see if there's hope. Refresh my, refresh my memory and all of the listeners. Um, what were you lying about? What are you hiding? Um, I had some purchases, uh, for some friends. Um, I was vaping some and hiding those purchases. I also, this will trigger you. I went hunting instead of, or fishing instead of hunting.

Melissa, this relationship's over, Melissa. I'm just kidding. Okay, I remember now. Yeah. Okay. So if I remember when we talked, and I didn't go back and listen to the original call before this, the things that you're lying about on one hand are relatively benign, right? It's not like you have secret addictions. It's not like you're having affairs. You just lie about weird things.

Almost non-essential things. And what becomes really essential is just your complete inability to be trusted, right? Correct. Okay. Melissa, I'd love to hear from you. Tell me what you've been experiencing over the last one, two, three, four years.

A lot of feeling very uneasy and just feeling like I'm always looking over my shoulder or just hearing things out of his mouth or seeing actions that make me feel uneasy. But then he tries to convince me that everything's okay and will even make me feel kind of crazy, like I should be getting over the past lives. And so I would keep

trying to trust him again and then I would catch him in another lie and then we would be trying to work through that and then even times of trying to be in the middle of sitting on the couch working through the root of the lie I would catch him in another lie and

And then it just eventually got to where, you know, he had his own counselor. We had a marriage counselor. And then he had an accountability partner and he had called into the show. And he was, you know, trying to convince me that he's going to do the hard with me. He's going to face me when he doesn't want to tell me things. But then I found him lying again. And that's when it just, it felt like there was no hope in that this was ever going to stop. And...

He hadn't told the counselors that he was lying this last time. He hadn't told his accountability partner. So it felt as though he wasn't working on the lying. It was like he was just telling me that he wasn't lying, but he was still holding stuff from me. So you sounds like you drew a line and said, I'm out.

I did. And then a few days later, I missed him and wished that we could work it out because we do have this amazing, tender romance, intimate. Everything is so beautiful on this other side of us. And then we have these struggles with...

him with autonomy. I feel like he struggles trying to have autonomy. Um, he doesn't, he doesn't want to be told what to do. Um, that, that triggers him when, if I ever portray anything that would make him feel like I'm being like a parent to him. Um, give me an example. Uh, trying, let's see.

trying to get chores done around our property. If I maybe say, Hey, you know, do you, do you plan to mow soon? Can I get out and help you? Steve, why does that set you off? Like this, this morning, my wife said, Hey, I need you to do some man stuff. And I said, laughingly, I thought we were all equal. And she said, I need you to fix the fence, fix this hand. Like she gave me a list of chores.

What about that sets you off? I was kind of honored that I could actually do some things around the house to help out. Um, I don't mind doing things we've had. We've had differences on opinions on, um, like how the, we live on four acres. So I'm more of a naturalist and like to let it grow up some and natural stuff go. And, um,

She likes it more trimmed and kept up. So we've had some differences on that that I have not been good at managing, putting in my input or whatever. So that's one thing I know for sure. Again, I wish I'd gone back and listened to the call. So I'm going to put some things out there listening to both of you. Steve, tell me where I'm wrong, okay? Okay.

I don't like the gang up, okay? I just don't like it. But either you have a psychiatric challenge, you've got a significant pathology with an ability to filter the truth, or you are incredibly immature to the point of just being a baby. And you just make stuff up. And I would tell you, I always believe there's reconciliation, but no, I don't believe you have a hope in a relationship where you won't show up and be honest.

I mean, that is the foundation. It's like building a house without a foundation on it. Right. Which one of those is it? Like, do you need to go see a psychiatrist and do some work with your, like, some neurological work? Or if you're honest, are you just pretty immature? I'm just going to do whatever I want to do whenever I want to do it. I really don't give a crap who gets hurt. Marriage one, marriage two, marriage three. I just don't care. I'm going to do whatever I want to do.

I don't believe it's the latter one. But you see your behavior as a language. You see that's just how it plays out, though, right? I do understand that. I do understand that. Yeah, I grew up with a helicopter mom and domineering females in my life. I've been... There's some histories of female dominance that have bowled me over. So...

When things like that happen, I shrink into myself. I get quiet and dig my feet in when somebody suggests something that I haven't done yet or whatever. And part of it is embarrassment that I haven't done it yet. Sure. So I think I was right, actually. More right than I originally thought.

I think it is a sign of immaturity. And I don't mean that in a YOLO. I mean, you're vaping. Come on. But like there's a YOLO thing. And beneath that, no, I'm sorry. I don't think it's a YOLO thing. I think it's beneath that. The seven-year-old you is still running the show, right? Your seven-year-old you is still trying to keep you safe from these women who pushed you around and shoved you around and made you live a life that wasn't safe or wasn't healthy for you.

The problem is you're choosing to let whoever those women were ruin yet another marriage. And so I'll sit with you and be like, I mean, that sucks that happened. And then I'll look at you and say, okay, are we going to keep letting those women who did that to you ruin everything moving forward? Because that's what's happening. Or to put it more simply, at some point you have to choose to stop blaming and start making changes. Otherwise, you're going to lose it again.

And you're going to give the keys to your joy and to your happiness and to your connectivity. What Melissa says are great parts of your life. You're going to give them back to those women and go, y'all can keep controlling me. And at some point you got to decide, I'm not going to let them control me anymore. And that's just called growing up. Is that fair? Yeah. Sort of. Okay. Tell me where it's not. It is a response that I'm not choosing to be immature. I'm not choosing to be a...

a child, I'm, I'm free flowing, free spirited. And if, if something doesn't get done right away, it, I don't stress about it. It's, it's not so much, I just don't want to do it. And I just want to do what I want to do. It's, it's just, I get that. I totally get that. But it sounds like you have a woman named Melissa, who's telling you the way you can love me is this. And you go, eh, I'm doing that.

And so, yes, the answer you just gave me is me. I'm free flowing. I don't think it's a big deal. I don't care about this. I just kind of go with the flow here. And you have this woman that you're married to that you looked in the eye and said, till death do us part. And she's saying, here's how you can love me. And you go, nah, I'll just free flow it. That's the definition of immaturity. My boss saying, hey, I need you to dress a certain way for this big meeting. Nah, I'm not going to do that.

My kids being like, hey, dad, can you help me make a lunch? Nah, let's just go with the flow, dude. There'll be some kids there at lunch at school that don't have any food. I mean, they have too much food. They'll hook you up. You're good. You see what I'm saying? No, that doesn't resonate. I don't think it's that simple. I think it is. Melissa, does it resonate with you or no? It does. Yeah.

And from what I've been told from him, he tells me that I have a strong personality and he doesn't like conflict with me. Um, so, um,

That's just some stuff that I hear from him. But yes, it feels like a lot of times he just kind of digs his heels in. And we've tried to negotiate things. I've tried to back off of asking him as much for doing chores and things. And that seemed to kind of help give him some freedom, some autonomy. But then the lies continued. And so then it...

I feel like we were trying to work on the other stuff and kind of come to more of a middle ground. But we did still struggle with it some, but the lies kind of underneath it all was the hardest. Steve, why do you expect her to give up a big chunk of who she is in order to honor how you feel and want to respond to things? Yet it's so hard for you to reciprocate that. I don't expect her to.

give up her chunk, which is why I have honestly felt splitting is the right thing so I can get out of her way and get out of every other person's way and just let, honestly, let her find what she needs and deserves. I don't know that it's me, as has been where I've

Done, too. I don't think you believe that. I do. Why are you quitting on yourself? I think you actually love her. I think she loves you. Is it not worth the effort? That's not it at all. I feel like I've lost myself over the last few years, and I don't know. What does that mean? What does that mean? Is it you've lost yourself, you've lost your ability to just do whatever you want whenever you want to? No. Okay, what does it mean? I haven't been able to express myself.

Who I am in some ways. What does that mean? Here's what I think, Steve, with all my guts. I think there is a big underlying issue that you hide from everybody. And I don't know what it is. And if you don't want to talk to me about it, that's fine. That's your prerogative. But I can feel you wanting to love and support and show up. And I also can feel the challenge you have. And it would be real easy for me to beat you up for it. And I'm not going to.

I do think it's as easy as choices. I do. But I think you're sitting on one or maybe several massive secrets that if you say out loud, you might think differently of yourself. The world might think differently of you. You may lose Melissa, whatever. But I say it all the time. Secrets kill. And you can come back and be like, no, John, you're wrong. Fine. I would be stunned if there's not some things underneath this. And now you're telling me I just can't be myself. I just can't. What does that mean, man?

There's no secrets. I'm not hiding anything else. Okay, then what does it mean you can't be yourself? What does that mean? It means I didn't feel like when I brought up vaping the first time. I asked for help and she went to get divorce papers and there was no support or love there that I'm struggling with this. Melissa, were you going to divorce him over vaping? I was going to divorce him over lying again. I was getting tired of it.

And so if he came to you and said, I'm struggling with vaping. That would have been different. Okay. I did that the first time. No, I found it. It was in the pocket. And then I sat down and said, okay, I need help. So yes, I was lying. It's, it's, it's, but I, I feel like I came and sat down and said, I need help. I've been found, but yeah, I needed help. I just, I don't know, John. So what do you think?

Um, I feel like he feels pushed down from me, from what he's told me. I feel like he is screaming for autonomy. I feel like he, um, I feel like he needs to be free. Like he does not want people telling him what to do or having any kind of control on him. I think that, that trying to compromise on a marriage, I think is really, really hard for him.

And I guess where I would challenge both of you is I don't believe, hey, will you love me this way? My wife asking me to help fix some stuff out in our, by our barn. My wife asking if I'll help put the kids to bed. My wife asking if X, Y, or Z. Or me asking my wife, hey, can you send me a PDF of the electric bill this month? I just don't feel like that's pushing each other around. And I don't feel like that is not getting your way.

Yes, at the end of the day, Steve, if you want a world where you do not have to live and co-create a new world together with somebody, marriage is not for you. And I'll ask you to have the courage to not drag somebody through the mud. If you want out, say the words, I want out. If, and not on the show, I want you all to do that privately. If you dearly love Melissa, which I hear from her that she loves you.

I love her to death. She's been the greatest love I've had. Then I want you to at least give some thought to you are not being drugged through the world by these women who hurt you in the past. At some point, you're making choices on a daily basis. And yes, I know the feelings are strong and the feelings are heavy and all those things, but you're making choices on a daily basis to not be honest.

You're making choices to not wake up every day and say, Melissa, how can I love you today? And then just going to do those things. You're making choices every day to find gaps in the world where you can be the victim and just say, it's just the way this is, man. No, I don't think that's true, where I'm finding a way I can be a victim.

Show me where you're putting forth the radical effort to be radically honest. So can I bring up the hunting, fishing thing? Bring up anything you want. So I was going to go hunting. We had talked earlier, she and I and some friends, about taking naps in hunting blinds and how beautiful a nap in the hunting blind is. She thought I was prolonging the hunting season to go spend more weekends out hunting. Like I would nap on purpose so I could have more time in the blinds.

So I was going to go hunting last fall. It was a beautiful day, warm. I didn't think deer would be around. I decided I wanted to go fish instead of hunt, but I didn't feel I could tell her that because she thought I was delaying hunting. It's not a victim. She didn't accept or understand or agree with my change of plans. It wasn't so I could go. So Melissa, what do you think, Melissa?

There's been a lot of extreme situations with Steve where it just, he gets really wrapped up in one thing and then that's his whole life. And I go down all these little rabbit trails with him of this new thing or now he's into this and I support him. And with the hunting, it was a, you know,

I mean, I was like blocking out my calendar. Okay, he will probably be hunting all these days. And that is kind of okay. I mean, it's just everything is extreme. But then also there's hurts around. That's our property that he goes to. And

There were, there were, there's history there where he had gone and I had supported him to go visit his brother there and have, he had, he was out of work for a while. And so he would go see his brother there. And I kept supporting him like, oh, you're out of work. You should go to the property, go spend time with your brother. And then,

Come to find out, he had been badmouthing me to his brother. I saw messages to his brother that were saying that I was OCD and that I was controlling and that I didn't let him do anything money-wise. And then he told his brother a secret that I had told him not to say. And so I just felt completely thrown into the bus. So the whole thing, even just around...

the property where he hunts, it's a sensitive topic for then, okay, now we're dealing with all these past lies and him throwing me under the bus. And then now he's going to the property like possibly every weekend during hunting season. And now he's, you know, going to go fishing. So it just, I would have, I understand that he would have changed his mind because he fishes very often as well. But I think for him, he saw that as,

things that I've said in the past, like of how I, the emotions that I felt with the, with what happened in the past with him down at the property. And then just all the extreme things that he does that I, I basically feel like I'm just kind of like each day, like, what are we doing today? What are you into today? What rabbit trail are we going down? And I support him. And Steve, I think what you gave me was just not a fair characterization. That's a, that's a much fuller picture.

Do you disagree with that? I do. Okay. I know because it was a separate incident. I get all the emotions behind it. Okay. It was separate for you, but you figured out a way to turn that entire situation into an excuse for you not to tell the truth about a thing that was highly sensitive. No. I didn't feel safe saying something. I don't think it's an excuse to hide anything.

All right. Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, brother, I can't help you. I mean, it feels the gas lights are so bright, it's hard to see. It's blinding. And as much as you continue to choose to see yourself as the epicenter of all of these different issues and then be like, I got to do this because I'm just not safe. I just got to do this because I'm not safe. You can feel how you want to feel. I want you to look around at the landscape. You have somebody that you love deeply and who loves you who's walking out the door for the third time.

You've got struggles here. You've got struggles over there. And every one of those is somebody else's issue. And I totally hear you don't want to hear from me, and that's fine. That's totally fine. And I appreciate y'all calling. But until you decide to set it all out on the table, say, okay, I'm going to make some different choices. Yeah, there's not a lot anybody can do to help. A marriage therapist isn't going to be able to wrap their head around this until you tell them the truth. A counselor's not going to be able to wrap their head around it until you tell them the truth. I hate that for you, man. I hate it for both of you. That's the best I can do for today. We'll be right back.

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Go to hallo.com slash Deloney today for three free months. That's hallo, H-A-L-L-O-W dot com slash Deloney. All right, we are back. Let's roll out to Houston and talk to Mean Jean. Hey, Jean, what's up? Hi, how are you? Good. How are you? I'm doing well. Excellent. What's up? How can I help? I have my husband sitting here with me, too, just

to let you know, I didn't tell the people, but my twin sister recently moved in with me and my husband. Um, she has three young children, um, under the age of seven. Um, yeah. And me and my husband, we just had our first baby. She's eight months old now. Um, and this is turned into probably a long-term living situation. Um,

which me and my sister, we get along really well. We're twins, so living together isn't difficult. And we've had a lot of long conversations with my husband, Jacob, and he's good with it and everything. And we check in regularly. Jacob, are you good with it? Yeah, I'm good with it. It's fine. It's fine. It's Texan. It's not Texan for I'm good with it.

Radically different concessions there, but go ahead. I don't have any major issues. Just, just a minor ones. Just three other kids and a single mom living in your house. Probably not keeping it clean like you want it and probably ganging up on you like you didn't want. Yeah. All right. Keep going, Jean.

Uh, well, we actually just closed on a new house this morning. So we went ahead and purchased a little bit bigger house so that her son can have his own room. It's got, you know, we're on an acre now, so we've got room for all the children. And our goal is really to just do the best we can for the kids and, uh,

Yeah, that's just our biggest goal. And I guess our question really was just how do we function as one household but with multiple families, but ensure that we're making our growing family a priority, but not excluding my sister or treating her like a fifth child. The question you're asking is...

How do I get very, very wealthy and never check my bank balance and run up millions of dollars in debt, but also have lots of assets that I own outright? You're asking a bunch of questions that none of them work. So let me back all the way out. You have offered your sister a place to live. It did not just turn into a long-term arrangement. You made that choice, which means y'all chose more chaos.

Y'all chose less money. Y'all chose a bigger mortgage. Y'all weren't planning on, right? Like you made all these things have choices with them, right? Yes. And there's no way. How old's your sister? We're twins. So we're, we're both 30. Okay. There's no way for a 30 year old with three kids, six and under to move into this situation without,

And not have some little bit of embarrassment, some little bit of this is not how I drew this up. Some little bit of I need to work really hard to get us back on our feet and get us our own place. Right. And you can't go around trying to solve that for her by making her an equal owner of the home because she's not. She's a guest. Her family's a guest. And good for you, man. Like you're better sibling than most. Right. Right.

And yeah, I've been told that a lot. Husband, Jacob, I don't know where they made you, man, but you're going to be in the express lane in the afterlife. You just get in, man. But here's the deal. My guess is, and you don't have to say, you don't have to affirm this. You're calling because you'll have maybe twins. You maybe get along great. Yada, yada. You all do life differently. And if you don't be very clear with boundaries, boundaries around cleanliness, boundaries around, um,

washing clothes boundaries around taking out trash and diapers boundaries around dishes if you're not super clear about that you're being unfair to your sister because what's going to happen is you're going to resent the fact that she ever came over and that's not fair to her and yeah she's a grown-up 30 year old if she doesn't want to abide by your boundaries that you and your husband have co-created to create the world y'all want then she can leave

But you can't have all of it. You can't have the home that y'all want to have and this nuclear family that y'all have really worked hard to be in this position and to be generous and to make her feel like it's all cool and to not give her any of, like, let her parent however she wants to parent, even though it's exactly opposite of how y'all, all that's not going to work together. And so similarly, as y'all have made choices, she's going to have to have some choices to make too. Yeah, I think we've...

I mean, you're saying exactly what we know we need to do. Am I close? Am I saying ballpark? Oh, yeah, 100%. We've been telling each other that we need to sit her down and talk to her about, hey, you need to help clean up after yourself and the children if you're going to be here. Does she have a job? That is the biggest thing. It's just, you know, you live in this house. We're all choosing to be together, so you need to...

You know, be in this house 100% and do share in the housework. Does she pay rent? She's going to in the new house. Does she work? Does she have a job? Yes. Okay. Who keeps the kids? So her and her ex have 50-50 custody. So they're here once for a week and then there for a week. Okay.

The only path forward through this sort of chaos, relational, it's just going to be a mess. It's going to be up and down. He's not going to show up one week. You're going to have plans. And then all of a sudden she's going to want to do something. And heaven forbid when she starts dating and just expects you to keep three kids or when she has to work late and just the assumption is you keep these kids, right? All that's got to be mapped out.

Or what's going to happen for real is she's going to call you crying one day and say, I need my sister. Can we go get dinner? And Jacob's going to have some stuff going on, whether it's a work event, whether it's a dinner, whether it's just a golf game. And you're going to be like, well, you got to keep. Now suddenly he's caring for four kids. Y'all got to map all this stuff out. And the only way you can lovingly care for your sister is to say, here's who we are in this house. Here's what it's going to look like if you choose to stay.

And I hope, hope, hope you choose to stay. Yeah. And the problem with the conversation you're going to have to have about cleanliness and cleaning up and as the kids get older and they're dealing with the chaos of,

dad saying stuff about mom and then everybody's trying not to talk bad about dad like as they navigate that you're gonna have a brand new kid your own kid watching these other kids go through some pretty hard grief right some pretty hard life transition and they're gonna say things and do things and y'all are gonna have to be pretty open about these behaviors aren't okay in our house or this style of parenting is not okay in our house

And that's going to be really hard. Yeah. How do you think the kids living in a house that have three, essentially three authority figures, like, is it more detrimental for them or just better because they have more consistent parenting? The greatest gift you can give those kids is emotionally regulated adults.

So if the three of you are all on the same page and you're all working together and everybody knows the rules and the regulations and yada, yada, then it could be a magic. It could be an amazing thing. It's the way families all over planet earth have lived for centuries, brothers and sisters and cousins and aunts and uncles and all kinds of weird people living together. But if she's not pulling her weight, she's just letting crap go. There's diapers everywhere. There's dishes everywhere. Her kids are crunching up Cheerios all over the place.

And stomping holes and things and bringing mud in the new house and all that. And she doesn't see it, doesn't even pick it up. And she's just watching TV. What's going to happen is you're going to begin to be enraged just as her car drives up the driveway. And those kids are going to absorb that rage and they're going to blame themselves. And the story that could be told is even our aunt didn't like us. It wasn't just our dad. Even our Uncle Jacob didn't want to be around us.

And so if y'all choose to be emotionally regulated, mature adults who can work through like, hey, I'm all in. And if she says, and you can look at her and say, I know you think this is stupid. I know. I know. And Jacob, you can say, I totally get that you don't like doing the dishes. It is a super important thing to me that after people are done with their dishes, that they will rinse them out and they put them in the dishwasher period. Just this. And if she says, I'm not doing that, then she can opt out.

But that's the great gift for the kids. What the kids can't do is have three adults who are all family members who are working together and see that and then see and feel each other can't stand to be in each other's presence. Right, right. Getting there. I mean, that is like the one, that only issue that we really have been experiencing since she's been living with us the last eight months is just like sharing the cleaning of the house. Okay.

I would, and you don't have to do it on the air, I would talk to Jacob off air privately about that because I bet there's more things. If not, there are. I'm almost positive because here's why. That, I don't want to talk about your sister like this, she's not on the phone, but the kind of person who just runs three kids into a house and doesn't clean up after them also often has similar traits that are just, the total picture is a complete disrespect for the hospitality that's being shown them.

Yeah. And it almost never happens in a vacuum like just this one thing. It's usually multiple things. And if you're not honest about those things, this thing I'm telling you will end in ash. And if you are honest about them and everybody can come to an agreement, this could be an amazing gift to a whole generation of kids whose dad walked out on them. Could be amazing.

But I think you and Jacob, here's how I would start this whole thing. I say this every show, kind of beating the same drum. You and Jacob need to go out. And Jacob, my brother, you got to be honest all the way from your guts. You bought a new house you probably wouldn't have bought. You said yes to some things because twin sister, yada, yada, right? We're here. You have to be honest about what you need to make this house work.

And you and your wife, you'll have a newborn. You probably haven't talked about how you've never been married to somebody with a kid before. You've never been married to somebody and then had a roommate. What's your sex life look like? What does your dating life look like? What does your finances look like? Let's talk about all those things and you two get in lock step and then you invite your sister in and say, okay, here's what has to happen for this house to work. We just bought a new house. We are all in.

But we can't keep having you disrespect our hospitality. You have to be a fully functioning member here. You're not just a teenager dropping off at mom's house. And by the way, even my kids have more responsibilities helping around the house than it sounds like your adult 30-year-old sister with three kids. And here's the rent, and here's your share of the bills, and, and, and. So yeah, I just think map it out. I think map it out, map it out. And if you need me to say it directly...

You have permission to draw boundaries in your home and your 30 year old sister, even though she's a twin, has permission to reject those and move out. She's a grown up. That's her choice. That's her choice. I hope she doesn't. I hope everybody goes, okay. But when you make boundaries, you then have to have the or what question. What are you going to do if I don't clean up? What are you going to do if I just keep showing up late and you'll have to babysit my three kids? What are you going to do if I don't pay rent? You won't be able to live here anymore. You'll be choosing to leave.

Is that hard? Yes. Y'all have entered into hard relationship territory. And I'll also say that's when things get really amazing if people do it right and they love each other and they forgive each other and they say, I'm sorry. And they're clear, clear, clear with each other. Whew, y'all are in it. Call anytime. We'll be right back.

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Go to helixsleep.com slash Deloney. That's helixsleep, H-E-L-I-X-S-L-E-E-P.com slash Deloney. This offer won't last long, so go right now. Because with Helix Sleep, better sleep starts now. All right, let's roll out to Louisville, Kentucky and talk to Cam. Hey, Cam, what's up, man? Dr. John, how are you doing? I'm good, my brother. How are you?

I'm feeling pretty good. Long time listener, first time caller. So happy to be on the phone with you. I'm happy to talk to you, man. What's up? How can I help?

Um, so I guess I just have a general question about which way to take my life from here. So, um, last year was probably the most catastrophic year of my entire life. I'm in my late twenties and I lost my father and my wife towards the end of the year. So, um, what was, what was your wife's name?

My wife's name was Alice. Alice. She's pretty awesome. She was. She was. Yeah, we were together for about seven years and married for five of it. And, you know, she was my world. What was your dad's name? My dad's name was Earl. Tell me about Earl. That sounds like a perfect Kentucky name. That's right. Tell me about Earl.

Yeah. Um, you know, he, he was my best friend. I mean, you know, it was kind of one of those classic relationship where one parent was really, really strict. One parent was really, really awesome. And my mom was the disciplinarian and my father was, you know, just always on my side, probably a little bit too much to some extent. Um,

And, you know, just I can remember from being really, really young, worried about losing my father because my parents were older when I was born. So I'm very lucky to have them as long as I did. So I try to, you know, just cherish the memories that we all made together, both with my father and my wife. But it's a little bit daunting on where to go from here. Yeah.

Can I just tell you before you keep going? Can I just tell you I'm sorry? Yeah, sure. I'm sorry, man. Thank you. Thank you for that. Nobody needs to go through that. Not in their 20s. Yeah. Not at the same time. You're exactly right. Man. All right. So you're just looking around now. The smoke's cleared a little bit, right? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And you're wondering which route to take. Tell me what you're thinking.

Um, you know, I honestly don't have a clue, you know, obviously like I've just been working. Um, I'm an engineer. I've just been kind of going to work daily. Um, and that's pretty much the only time I really get any, any like, I guess, freedom in my mind to not be in this explosion that happened in my life. Um, it was also like when I was

you know, in college, I ran into like a lot of trouble. I got, you know, in with the wrong crowd, started doing a lot of the wrong things. So it kind of always seemed like I had someone in my life guiding me, you know, it was always my parents, you know, funneling money to me just a little bit at a time. And then it was, and then I met my wife and she kind of managed all the finances. And so now, you know, I'm, you know,

thrust into this realm where like I've, I got all of my inheritance from my father. I have all my wife's assets and I'm the sole manager of all of this. And I just am scared, frankly, frankly, I mean, Fear is good, but I want you to hear me, Kim. I trust you. I trust you. You're an engineer. You're not dumb. Right. And, um, I trust you and it'll take a while for you to learn to trust yourself.

Oh, for sure. Yeah. I'm nowhere close to that yet. I've been going to a therapist, and he's awesome. And I've seen him about three times. That's a tough move for an engineer because that doesn't fit. A therapist doesn't always fit on a 10 key, right? It doesn't always fit in a spreadsheet. So good for you, man. I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you. So is it specifically money you're worried about, or are you looking at the world –

Often when I sit with somebody who's experienced just like you said it best, like their whole life exploded. Everything that they knew is over. You got to get up and keep going to work. Right. And you got to keep doing a thing, but it's almost like you're doing everything underwater. Right. Like that will fight club quote. You're a copy of a copy of a copy of an old cassette tape. And like you're doing life when you have real big, like hunting headphones on. Yeah. And some, at some point,

You'll decide sometimes it's real slow and you just realize, oh, you can hear the birds again. And sometimes you're like, no, I'm going to make a conscious choice to take the headphones off and then ask myself some terrifying questions like, what do I actually want to do? Because you have a seat that very few people have. And that is you have a ringside seat to just how quick this whole thing, this whole illusion that we think we've got wrapped up goes away.

How precious life is, how precious love is. And you probably have friends. I called a buddy whose wife, he's one of my closest, best friends on planet Earth, and his wife died of brain cancer.

And I remember calling him a couple years later, and I was thinking about quitting my job and going to go to law school. And he was an attorney, so I was going through the conversations with him. And I remember pushing him on big law or whatever. And I remember him just exhaling, and he just goes, John, none of that matters. And this was not a person of faith. I mean, he's just like, John, this doesn't matter. And I remember the way he said it, I never asked about law school again.

Right. And so you got to see that. And so let me ask you, man, what the sun's going to come up tomorrow. Yeah. And the choice you have right now is keep sitting and that's fine. Everything blew up. You get my permission to sit and just keep engineering for a bit and just keep plugging along. You also have permission to stand up and look around and say, OK, what do I want today to look like? What do I want tomorrow to look like?

Yeah. I feel like I'm not quite there yet. I mean, things are still, things are still just settling down. Like I'm just now starting to have like some contention with my in-laws and they're starting to, they're starting to kind of,

you know, ask some questions as to like, you know, they're, they're interested in what's going to happen with their daughter's things. And I think, you know, that those are going to be some tough conversations. Hold on. Let's talk about that for a second. Do you mind talking about that? No, I mean, no, I don't, I don't mind discussing it. It's, um, what are some things they want that you don't want to get rid of?

I mean, I'm not so sure that it's something that they want that I don't want to get rid of. I think they just want everything that was hers back in an ideal world. And, you know, so, you know, money, cars, jewelry, clothes, like they, in their mind, it's theirs. And it's, it's, I guess it's a little bit insulting to,

Hey, it's a whole, whole lot insulting. Yeah. And their world blew up too. Exactly. That's what I'm trying to keep in mind. I don't want to alienate them. I don't want to... Cam, you don't have that power. You're not that strong. You're going to make some choices about what to do with money and what you have had conversations with your wife over the last seven years about...

what she wanted, hopefully you had a will, what she wanted to do with this stuff. Or if you don't have a will, which many young couples don't, you know, some charities she was involved with, things that she loved. And you also know if that was grandmother's ring, here's grandmother's ring back. Right? Like, you know the difference there. And mom, your in-laws, they get to choose whether they want to be alienated through temper tantrums or not.

They get to choose that. They get to choose whether they want to sue you over a Honda Accord, right? Or you selling the Honda and giving the money to one of her charities that she loved. Yeah. Right? They get to choose that, not you. That's not your job. Your job is to honor your dad, his legacy, honor your wife and her legacy. And then one of the greatest ways you can honor them is by choosing to live again. But that's not for today, and that's okay. No, yeah, my wife was very, you know, she...

She was sick for a long time and we had extensive conversations about, you know, she, she did not want me, you know, just wasting my life away after the worst happened to her. If, if it did, um,

And so, you know, I kind of feel like I know what I'm supposed to do, but it's hard getting out of this immediate aftermath. Yeah. And don't rush it. Don't rush it. Yeah. Don't rush it. There's no rush. And anybody who tells you there is a rush, then they can, they're, they're cashing out right now. How long ago was both of these things?

Um, so my wife passed away three months ago and my father passed away December, 2024. Good grief. Don't do anything. Don't do anything until 2025. Until 2025. Yeah. That's what I've been, been doing. I've been just nothing. And you know, they want me to make these decisions. They want me to hand over this stuff. My mother has all of these things that she's also dealing with that it's kind of,

along the same lines and So here's my recommendation for you. Okay. I want you to you might want to do this with your counselor But you might want to do this with yourself. Okay, I want you to send an email So it's everybody has it in writing to your in-laws. Yeah to your your wife's Family members brothers and sisters, etc. Mm-hmm, and I want you to write an email that says I'm so glad y'all been in our life I'm hurting y'all are hurting

I am not going to make any decisions on transferring any assets or doing any sort of business while I'm grieving right now. I will be back in touch with you January 1 to let you know next steps. Send that email. That's a really good idea. Okay. Then you put that date on your calendar. And if you're not ready then, then you're not ready then. But it will keep them from calling and texting and, hey, can we come by? And we...

I am putting this on the calendar. Your mom, if you don't have any siblings, you probably need to go help your mom with just some stuff, moving the water bill into her name versus, right? Some of that kind of just work stuff, right? Yeah. And that will be helpful and you'll get to go through some of your dad's things and that'll be scary and hard and honoring and weepy and all those things. But if you don't have that work to do, then you tell your mom, mom.

I need you to find some friends. I need you to find, call my sister. I need you to call some folks because I'm struggling too. Yeah. But clarity, clear is kind. Clear honors your wife. Clear honors you. And it gives everybody some boundaries. And they can react to those boundaries however they want. And if they opt out of your life moving forward, then that's what they do. Yeah. Is that fair? That's fair. That's more than fair. Yeah, sorry. No, you're good, man.

Anything specifically I can help you with? It sounds like you've got some family members, sounds like you've got a counselor that you're talking to. Anything else I can help you with? Yeah.

No, I mean, I feel like you've given me some really good advice. I really appreciate it. I think that's kind of just where I need to keep my focus. I've kind of known that deep in my soul that I just need to pause, you know, and just get my feet back under me. Don't do anything quickly. I've heard that quite a few times from, you know, church friends, you know, some of my fathers.

father's friends some you know some older guys that i consider very wise and now you're saying it so here's my rule of thumb just just tattoo on your on your arm i tell people don't sell anything unless you have to do it to eat don't sell anything don't buy anything don't take a new job don't quit your job before six months at a minimum 12 months on the long end don't do anything

Because there just becomes this internal panic. I've got to move. I've got to solve something. And if you've been sitting with your wife and she got sicker and sicker and sicker, you've been caretaking. You've been leaving bits and pieces of yourself on the field for a long time. Yes. You lost a part of yourself with your wife. You lost a part of yourself with your dad. You lost your ride or die in both cases. Exactly. Don't worry about selling a Honda Accord, man.

Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah, it's funny that that was... Is it a Honda Accord? She had just bought a new car, but I still have a Honda Accord. Ah, that a boy. I just picked that out of the air. So maybe she's sitting here with me trying to keep you from doing something silly. And listen, if she told you privately, my mom's going to come wanting all this jewelry and I'm not giving it to her, then don't give it to her. And don't give it to her with a smile on your face. Yeah. Also, if you don't care...

And you're going to keep the two or three precious pieces. Give the rest of it to your mom so she can go about her life. Right? Yeah. Yeah. No, that is the absolute least of my worries. Of course it is. Yeah. So I'm good with that. All right. So I'm going to hook you up with this. I'm going to hook you up with a few things. Okay? Okay. I'm going to give you both of my books, but I don't want you to read them yet. Okay? Sounds good. It's not time.

I'm also gonna, when Christian sends you an email, I also want, he's gonna put in that email a book called Finding Meaning by David Kessler, which is the single greatest book on what do you do now after you lose somebody that you love. And it's not time to read that either. - Oh wow, that's amazing. - Okay, it's the greatest book ever written. You can also listen to the audiobook, it's just a powerful masterpiece. - That's amazing. - I'm also gonna give you Financial Peace University and Every Dollar App for a year to help you with your money stuff, okay?

Okay. I'm going to give you all the lessons. You're an engineer. You're smart. But sometimes smart people do dumb things with money. Okay? I want you to watch these lessons and go back to square one and just let them be your guide over the next six to nine months as you get your money straightened up, you remember to pay bills, you set some stuff up. Because you're going to have to do some things you haven't done in ages, right? Exactly. Yeah. You can do it. You're exactly right. And if you ever begin to doubt, I can't do this, I want you to remember my voice telling you.

I believe in you and I know you can. And I say this because I love you. It will get harder before it gets easier. I think you're coming off the fumes of work, of planning funerals, of helping a wife who's been sick for a long time, just dealing with all the influx of texts and emails. You're entering into the space and I always mark it on my calendar two or three months after someone who I love loses somebody, the call stopped coming. It gets real quiet.

And your body starts to realize, oh, this is the rest of my life. And that's a harrowing, scary time. And you have to promise to reach out to people in your community who you love, not people who are going to try to fix you, but people who will just show up and sit with you. And then slowly but surely, you're going to see somebody at your local church or local YMCA who really could use a used car. And you're going to go, I got one. Or you're going to sell it. Take that money and put it in mutual fund. Like, who knows? Who cares? Whatever. And someday you're going to laugh real, real hard. You're going to feel guilty about laughing.

But you're going to feel good. And when you feel good, I want you to imagine your dad sitting behind you, patting you on the shoulder, saying, yeah, dude, I'm still here. And it's time for you to start laughing again. And someone's going to walk by and say something funny. She's going to be kind of cute. And you're going to catch her eye. And you're going to feel guilty. And then your wife's going to be on the other shoulder. And she's going to be like, it's all good. It's all good. I think she's pretty, too. This is going to take some time. Three months, man. You were right smack in the middle of it.

Just know this. We love you. And I'm really grateful for your call. You call any time, any time. We will ride with you every step of the way here. I'm grateful for you, man. We'll be right back.

Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com.

All right, we're back. Something cool happened. What is it, Kelly? All right, this is from Jonathan in Wisconsin. I live in what was starting to become the awful world of corporate, always reviewing goals that became more and more unrealistic, always looking at performances and setting expectations around more and more. This has resulted in squeezing the life out of every employee. On a recent show, you said something that hit me hard. You said to stop treating your wife like an employee. That hurt because it had become true and I was blind to it.

I started measuring my marriage on goals, agendas, performance. I lost tenderness, love, and kindness. I keep replaying that phrase every day. My wife isn't my employee. It's been weeks, and now my wife is saying how different I am. I've stopped my agendas, goals, and expectations and just started to love, like I always have done. Thank you so much for your show. And sometimes it's a phrase that changes everything. We're hitting 24 years of marriage and looking forward to the amazing days ahead. Dude, that's amazing. That's awesome.

Very cool. Yeah, I think it's important for couples to set goals and agendas together. Like, what are some things that we want to accomplish, do, experience together? And how are we going to make that happen? But yeah, treat each other like an employee. Good on that, dude, man. Hey, and by the way, it's hard to be married to someone for a quarter century and then decide I'm going to make some pretty significant changes and actually set those things into practice. That's amazing. Good for him. Good for him. I wish Kelly could make some of those changes. That would be awesome.

That would be awesome. All right, everybody. I love you guys. Stay in school. Don't do drugs. Talk to you soon. Bye.