He Told Me He Was Separated . . . But He Wasn’t
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Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I started a relationship with someone. I do happen to work with them. Things progressed, even got to the point where we wanted to move in together and signed a lease. I knew this person was married, but it was a friend. You did such a good job bearing the lead. What up, what up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show.

Taking live calls from real people all across the planet, going through real challenging stuff. Your emotional health, your mental health, what's going on in your relationships, your marriages, with your kids, whatever you got going on in your life, here's my promise, I'm going to sit with you. I spent over 20 years sitting with people when the wheels have fallen off, trying to figure out what to do next. And I've been through it myself. I've sat with, I just can't count them, with countless people and got the academic training

to sit down and say, all right, what's the next right move? If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K. All right, let's go out to Lucy in the sky with diamonds in Pittsburgh. Hey, what's up, Lucy? Hi, thank you so much for taking time to talk to me today. I appreciate it. How are you? I'm great. Thank you for taking time to call in. What's up? So, I...

started a relationship with someone. I do happen to work with them and it was over the course of a year and things progressed. Um, even got to the point where we wanted to move in together and signed a lease. And I knew this person was married, but it was explained to me that they were separated. I didn't understand that it was capital M Mary. Lucy, you have to lead with that.

Yes. Lead with that. You did such a good job building the lead. So I did know that, but I was under the understanding that they were separated and beginning the process of divorce, which, you know, hindsight's 20-20. I realized that divorce should come first before anything else. No way. No way. So, I mean, yeah, I didn't understand that.

the situation at the time and was just kind of rolling with it. And, um, okay. But you understand it now though, right? Yes, of course. Okay. So this guy sucks and he's, he's untrustworthy and he's cheated on one. He'll cheat on you. And so we're moving on, right? Yeah. I guess that's, that's the, the question is, is how to move on. So, um,

You know, he still talks to me. He still says that he has the same feelings and wants the same thing. Why does he have any contact with you? We work together, so we're around each other. I've been in some pretty cold work relationships. I work with Kelly. I've been in some pretty cold, like, work relationships. Yeah. It's hard not to hold space in your life. You still want it to happen, though. It's hard to let go of. I'm not going to lie. No, it's super hard, but you still want it to happen.

In my perfect dream world, yes. I understand that perfect dream worlds don't exist. I love a good story, I guess. And it's hard when someone's still saying all these things to you not to hold space in your life for them. And I'm afraid that I'll pass up on good things because in the back of my head, I'm always waiting. There's no good here. Yeah. Can I tell you an alternative hypothesis? Yeah.

Yes. I think you are upset slash confused as to who you've become. And it's easy to connect to, um, I have a close buddy who had an affair was such a left turn for him in a million years would never be that guy and instantly wrapped up in that relationship to try to make that work because that was the only path to, um, redemption in his, in his mind.

I have a friend who's a woman who just completely poured her soul out to some like it happens all the time where I can't believe I've become this. Like in your you never set out to be somebody who would be the other woman who would date a married man fall in love with him sign a lease with him. And then there's this picture in your mind when you look in the mirror of oh you're kind of woman who does that.

Yeah. And so now you have a vested interest in somehow making this thing work with this guy to almost to wrap your, to build a wall around the collateral damage here. I'm going to tell you, the lack of character of this man is so powerful because it's not like he had a workplace crush. It's not like he got it in over his head. It's not like he had a one-time affair. He took someone along his fantasy ride. He used you so badly. And by the way, you used him after you found out.

Because he becomes a way to get fully emotionally invested without ever crossing a line, right? Because you know he's anchored at home. The whole thing is zero good that can come from this. That's a very fair assessment. Yeah, I don't know how to break that connection in my brain. I don't know. You have to cut it off. It's like stopping drinking. You can't just keep going to the same bar. Right. You can't have alcohol in your house.

I've got friends who've been in recovery for 20 years and they can be around it all day long. That doesn't bother them at all. But that first couple of years, it's scorched earth. I can't be around the same people. I can't go to the same places. And at some level, you have to get some, whether you have to manufacture it or you have to just let it go. I can't believe you're not enraged.

What a lying sack of crap this guy is. That is what I hear a lot is people are like, I can't believe you don't hate him. And I don't. No, it's not hate. It's rage. Like hate's kind of a waste of time. I'm talking about like a guy that would sign a lease with you. Yeah. Take it that far. Yeah. Yeah. That's disgusting to me. And I didn't find everything out until after the fact because. Can I tell you something? You still don't know everything.

Because I promise you he tells his wife something different than he's telling you. Oh, I would bet my life on it. Promise. I don't talk to that woman at work. She's kind of crazy. She follows me around everywhere. She always is texting. All I want to do is be with you. We built this life together. I work with a crazy person, but I can't get a new job right now. You're the other story.

But you can't control that other story. You can't control what a spineless, lying coward he is. You can't control what kind of spineless, lying coward you are. Stop. Stop. I think the picture I was painted and the story I was originally sold, it's hard to attach those words to that person, but I have to realize that that person doesn't exist. Ah, there you go. You created somebody in the world and you backfilled it with that dude. Yeah. Yeah.

A hundred percent. But you also haven't done the hard work to backfill reality with you. You're a woman who's continuing to be attached to a married man. Yeah. Yeah. And I think you're worth more than that. I think you're better than that. Does that make sense? Yeah. Thank you for saying that. Do you? I definitely struggle on the self-worth front, which is why I think I accept the treatment that I do and accept the

situations that I'm admittedly and take full responsibility got myself into. Yeah, but I can hear you. I can hear you gulping it down. I want you to stop. I want you to feel it because you're really good at passing over how much all this hurts. Is that fair? It's sitting right there at the top, isn't it? Yeah, it hurts. It hurts a lot. It hurts that you were lied to and it hurts that you found yourself having acted like this person.

Yeah, a hundred percent. And I don't like easily feel that way about people or, you know, commitment is definitely something I struggle with. So I just, I worked on that for the wrong person, the wrong situation, the wrong everything. Well, here's another, here's a second alternative hypothesis. He was the safest person for somebody to get involved with who is commitment phobic. Cause you can go all in and imagine this life

And way deep down, you know, it's not going to come true because he's got a wife. Self-sabotage at its finest. Well, and you've probably have a history of dating people who have built in, like have shown their true colors already as you're getting to know them or as you become involved with them and they leave you. And this guy will find somebody to cheat on you with and leave you. And it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. And you'll say, see, I told you, Lucy.

Fair, very fair, very accurate. So you have to decide you're worth somebody being somebody's only one, which means you have to risk getting hurt. And by the way, like just from a data perspective, you've proven it to yourself like that your way gets you hurt too. Yeah. So you can't fix anything that has happened up into this point, but you can do the next right thing. And just completely cut contact. And it's,

That's definitely going to be a challenge because before anything turned into anything, this person, it started out as friendship, which I'm sure you've heard a million, million times over. And I didn't mean for it. It sounds stupid. I didn't mean for it to get this far. Of course not. Nobody does, man. That's why I'm not screaming at you. And if the roles were reversed and he was on the phone, I'd be mad at him because he's married.

But nobody plans for it to get like this. I get that. But somebody has to call it at some point and not continue the fantasy train right off a cliff. And by the way, you can't – I don't think you can make this switch long term that doesn't come from a place that you believe in your bones that you're worth more than this. Yeah. Because if you don't, you're going to break up with them because you're pissed or you're angry or like some indignant like, yeah, yeah.

And that kind of like when there's like a great painter or musician and you walk up to him, you're like, I need you to know you changed my life. That's amazing. But that doesn't pay the light bill. Right. Like it'd be cool if you bought a record or a ticket. Similarly, you can break up with somebody because you're enraged. That doesn't make the 2 a.m. loneliness go away. Right. Yeah.

Right. And you have to decide I'm worth it. That doesn't make the loneliness go away per se, but it does. It's backfilled with a sense of virtue and character and worth. You're just worth more than this, man. Thank you for saying that because I don't always feel like it. I know you don't. I know you don't. I go to therapy. I work on it, but I'm like trying to... What does your therapist say? What has your therapist said about all of this? That...

I don't know. It was a cruel thing to do to someone. I didn't find out about everything until after a lease was signed. We were making lease payments. It was like when he was supposed to move in that things got weird. And that's when I was like, something's not right. So I went to his house and that's how I kind of found everything out. Did his wife answer the door? Yeah. Oh, for real? I was kind of joking. Yeah.

She was like, who are you? And I was like, I think we need to talk about some things because I don't think I understand what's going on. And I don't think you know what's going on. God, Lucy, lead with that next time. That's awesome. That's great radio. All right. So did y'all get in a fistfight out in the parking lot? What happened? No, she was so oddly calm about it.

Cause you're not the first one. All right. So I wasn't. And he told me that, you know, obviously, like I said, I thought they were separated and he was like, I I've never stepped out on my marriage, like blah, blah, blah. Um, and she was like, obviously by my reaction, you can tell that this has happened before. It's never gone this far, but it's happened before. And, um, that's not even the end of the saga. So that all happened. Um,

And he's like, well, everything's out in the open now, so I can actually leave. He ends up bringing a bag to the house that we signed for and then tells me it's over. They're getting divorced, whatever. And then he leaves. And I have to go back and be like, she sent people to my house to look for him. And I was like, but what the hell is going on? Like, I can't believe anything that's being said. And

So her and I confronted him together. Oh, God, I wish we would have had that on record. That would have been awesome. I did record it. I don't think anyone knows that, but my phone was on in my pocket just for my own sake, I guess. Did his other girlfriends come too or is it just y'all two? Just us. Awesome. Just us. I don't know the other...

Exactly. That y'all know of. Here's the deal. Here's the deal. Right now, I want you to take out your phone. I want you to delete his contact. Okay. Do it like right now. Okay. Put me on speaker and then do it. All right. It's gone. It's gone. It's gone. The moment this call is over, I want you to send him an email on your work email.

Okay. It says, I'm cutting off contact with you. I don't want to talk to you electronically. I don't want you to call me. I don't want you to text me. I don't want you to email me anymore. If you do, I will consider it harassment and a violation of our professional working relationship. Send. I like that. You're so... Okay. Is that fair? I wish I had you on tap all the time. You don't. Trust me, I'm a mess. But right now, I'm doing all right. But hold on. You're then going to have to... You're going to be empty.

Yeah. And you're going to have to backfill that with friendships. You're going to have to backfill that with other people that you call. And you're going to have to deal with the hollowness that you feel because you became somebody that you don't respect. No, I don't at all. I'm telling you from the outside, you're worthy of that respect, but you got to act different. You got to be someone who doesn't date married men.

Yeah. My first and last, I swear. Okay. We're done. We're done. We learned a lot, unfortunately, the hard way, but that's how I seem to do things. We did. And by the way, going back to the friendship stuff, you lost him as like a friend just for whatever it's worth. Like my non, I was about to say my non-sexual friends.

That's all but one. My friends who are not like there's no romantic interest or whatever. I don't hang out with people. I hang out with guys that are questionable on a lot of fronts. I love them, but they're, man, they make different choices than me. But I don't hang out with dudes who cheat on their wives. I just don't. Like I just don't. I hang out with people who make mistakes and I hang out with people who say they're sorry. And I hang out with people who any number of different values than me, different beliefs than me.

But forget the romantic part. Don't be around this dude because he's the kind of scumbag that cheats on his wife. He's the kind of scumbag that continually over and over destroys the humans in his life. I'm just not going to be around that kind of person. I'll walk with them if they say they want to get better. They want to change their life, but that's just as a rule of life, man. Life is too short and there's too many amazing people out there trying to do the next right thing. Today's your Independence Day, my friend Lucy.

Today's your day of freedom. And today's the day you've got to deal with a lot of hard stuff, including the things that you've done and the person that you were becoming. But we're going to become something different starting today. Hang on the line. I'm going to send you a copy of Building a Non-Anxious Life. It's going to be my gift to you. But if you call him or you respond to a text message or if he emails you and you don't send it on to HR, you have to send the book back. You won't, but that's my rule. Thanks for the call, Lucy. We're rooting for you. We'll be right back.

All right, let's stay right here in Nashville and talk to Rachel. Hey, Rachel, what's up? Hi, I'm good. How are you? I'm great. What's up?

Um, well, okay. So I have this habit of lying and only until recently have I really felt, I don't know, convicted of it. Um, I met my husband, um, a few years ago and I had told him that sometimes I lie and like make up stories and he was, and only now I feel like I've really felt those like repercussions of it. Um, just because we're so close and you know, um,

How long have you been doing that? Like, since I was a kid, I think. I mean, just, you know, even like with my parents, I was homeschooled and like my mom wasn't super involved in my education. And so like she would, you know, ask if I had gotten some homework done and I just would say yes. And it, you know, it wouldn't be done and it was all okay. So is it, I mean, so people lie for all different reasons, right? You lie for, to avoid punishment, to, for personal gain, right?

But it sounds like you lie just as a way to maneuver through the world. Yeah, I think, I mean, I think a lot of it is, yeah, to protect myself, like for, you know, to either avoid punishment or if I know someone, like I'm going to say something that someone doesn't want to hear, I would just rather them hear what they want to hear. Why do you think so little of you? Because that stems from a place of you don't think what you're about to say has value or merit.

This has actually been a common theme that I've noticed recently that I often come back to, I'm unworthy. But where does that come from? Who told you that? Well, I think... Okay, so I had this dance teacher growing up. I was trying to be a professional ballet dancer for 11 years or so. And she was pretty...

She would be verbally abusive and emotionally abusive. And I think a lot of times I would lie to her just to be like, oh yeah, I understand what you're saying. And then she would stop paying the attention. And I think that could be where it was coming from because then I didn't feel guilt. I just felt like, oh, I got out of it. Have you struggled with disordered eating? Yes. Okay.

Um, uh, when I was, um, 17, I had a dance teacher tell me to lose weight and that no one was going to take me seriously if I didn't. And, and after that, it started a few years of, um, I don't think there was nothing diagnosable, but I just think it was disordered eating. But you know, um, yeah. Yeah. Does anyone else know that? Um, my husband does.

He knows it conceptually. Does anybody else know what hell you went through from 15, 16, 17 to about 22, 23? No, just one of my friends who went through it with me. Okay. Right now, I can tell. Right now, your shoulders are up by your ears, aren't they? I want you to drop them. I'm like shaking. I know. I know. This is what it feels like for the first time to say something out loud. Yeah. Okay? Yeah. I'm sorry that somebody told you that you weren't beautiful when you were young.

Thank you. And I'm sorry that somebody said you will perform for me so that I look good and you became a tool in somebody's toolbox instead of a kid. Yeah. And I'm sorry that your parents created a world that was easier for you to lie, to perform, just so you could maneuver in your own home. Sorry. Thank you. Yeah. Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. You have to sit in it. You have to sit in it. You're too good at brushing it away and moving on to the next thing. Yeah. Yeah.

You have to just sit at it. It sucks. And now you have somebody that you said, I do. I'll be your ride or die for the rest of our lives. And so here's what I want you to say. If you hear nothing else on this call, other than number one, you've been seen. Okay. And I can ask you two or three more questions and I'm 99% sure that the answer would be yes. I'm not going to do that because you've said enough. Oh, you've been vulnerable enough for this. Just meeting you. Hi, Rachel. Good to meet you. Right. Yeah. But you told somebody I do.

Okay. So the things that kept you safe in these relationships growing up are going to destroy the most important relationship in your life now. Yeah. Okay. So what you have to, you have to exhale and know both cognitively, like the actual information, the data, but also in your chest, you have to know that I needed to maneuver around mom and dad a certain way. I needed to get myself out of abusive adult relationships when I was a teenager.

Now I'm going to have to practice on speaking my mind and letting the other person be uncomfortable because it's not my job to make everybody comfortable in the world. Yeah. I have to double down on telling the truth, even on tiny little things and risk temporary discomfort over long-term disintegration. Right. Yeah. I just feel like my fear with that is that I'll say the truth and it just will disintegrate anyways. Your feelings are incorrect, Rachel.

Yeah. Yeah. They've served your purpose. They've kept you safe and now they're ruining things. Right. So I want you to feel it. Your feelings are still good indicators. It's kind of like having a light on, on your dashboard. Sometimes it's good. And sometimes it's just, you have an old car and you have a sensor that's not working great. Right. Right. Right. So I want you to feel your feelings and then I want you to go do the next right thing. And the next right thing is telling the truth. 100% of the time, you're probably gonna have to overcorrect for a season.

Mm-hmm. Which means when your husband says, do I look good in this? You're going to have to say, no, you don't. Yep. That'd be painful. Yes. When he comes down the next morning and he's like, how was last night? Oh yeah. You're going to have to say, it was fine. Yeah. Fair. That's fair. How was that burger I cooked for you? It was okay. Yeah. Where do you want to go eat tonight? Not at that stupid place you always take us. Right.

And I mean, I feel like a lot of times when he asks me, you know, questions that I feel like an impulse to lie, it's almost like I do it before I even know it. That's right. And then afterwards, I'm like, oh, I need it. Then it feels even worse to have to go back and be like, hey, I was actually lying. It does. But listen, that's where the healing path is. I want you to sit down with him and say, lying kept me safe as a kid, and I'm stopping it immediately.

My goal is to never lie again. And it's going to be uncomfortable for both of us for a season because he's used to having somebody that disagrees with everything he says, right? Right. And he also probably has a marriage to somebody that he hasn't fully, I'm trying to think of the right way to say this. He hasn't fully felt you yet. Right. And he knows it too. I know he feels that gap and here's what's cruel. He's been blaming himself the whole time.

Yeah. Because he keeps asking himself, what is it about me that makes her have to hedge the truth that she doesn't think I can handle it or I don't love her enough or I'm not handsome enough or whatever story he's backfilling. It's cruel. So the things you think are helping are burying that poor guy and they're burying you. Yeah. And so the only path is to practice. And I know that sounds absurd, but you got to practice. But you have to on the front end say, I don't ever want to lie again. And so I'm going to come back and correct myself.

And you're going to realize how much I'm lying. And I'm sorry, but we're going to get this thing right. Do you love me? And they'll say, of course I love you. Okay. And then you have to commit to 100% of the time I'm going to circle back. And I promise you it will get easier and easier and easier over time. I also promise you, if you keep lying, you will lose a job. If you keep lying, your kids will grow up not trusting their mother. If you keep lying, you will disintegrate your marriage. If you keep lying...

Under all of this, you won't trust you, Rachel. Yeah. I feel like I don't. I know you don't. Even right now. And it's like walking on like a waterbed. It's hard to take a firm step anywhere, right? Yeah. Yes. Yeah, because it feels like even more than I'm lying to my husband, like a lot of times I'm lying to myself. You are. You are. And here's what's weird. All of us do it. It's like a part of – it's built into the social fabric, right? Right.

It's kind of like the time my buddy John told me I was messing with my lock and I couldn't get my front door to lock. And he was like, dude, your neighbors are great. Let's just go. And I was like, well, it's not for my neighbors. And he laughed and he goes, dude, your front door lock is so your neighbors don't come in your house. If a bad guy wants in your house, he's getting in your house. And I remember going, oh, yeah, I've been lying to myself. Right. We lied. We did all the time. But there's layers to it. So it's like getting in our car and driving down the road. Yeah, I'm safe. I mean, kind of.

Kind of, but you're driving 80 miles an hour in a 2,000-pound metal box surrounded by other people texting and – right? So some of those things just keep us going. Right. But there's layers to it. Mm-hmm. You still love your husband? Oh, yes, very much. We've only been married for a little over a year. Okay. Yes. That love will end shortly. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. That was awesome. All right. So here's the deal. You have to make a decision. I'm going to stop lying.

And then you're going to have to go through the awkwardness and the weirdness of here's the two things I want you to do. I want you to write down every time you tell something, even the tiniest bit not true. I'll be home in 10 minutes. You know it's going to be 30 minutes. The drive is 10 minutes and you're not even done shopping yet.

No, I like that shirt. You don't. The little things like that all the way up to, hey, did you call that guy? Did you text him back? No. Do you want to go to Christmas with my parents? Of course. I want you to write down every one of those things. And then I want you to make a commitment to your husband. I'm going to check in with you and I'm going to correct these things every single time. And my promise is if you will do this for a period of time, and I don't know, it's different for everybody, 15 days, 30 days, 60 days, you will begin to catch it as they come out. And here's what it will also do. It'll slow you down. It'll slow you down.

One of the questions I wasn't going to ask you was, do you have any sort of emotional abuse at home, possibly physical abuse at home? And I'm not going to ask you that question, but I want you to think through it. Often a quick, I got to answer right this second right now, ASAP to brush this situation off was a way a kid keeps himself safe with emotionally unstable parents.

And that may or may not be your story, but I want you to think through that. I want you to begin to pause before you answer. Just exhale. Make it a practice. Somebody asks you something and let that breath be what re-energizes you. I'm worth the truth here. I'm going to say the right answer. No, I don't like X, Y, or Z. I don't like it. I don't care about it. I don't care for it. I hate every person who whatever. I don't. And there's such power and strength. And here's the other side. Like I said earlier, you're going to lose everything.

Over time, you'll erode trust, you'll erode grace, you'll erode safety in all of the relationships you care about, most importantly, in you. And you're worth more. You're worth more. So today, today's the last day. Actually, yesterday was the last day. We're telling the truth from here on out. Rachel will be known as the woman who you can always count on. She'll tell you. She'll tell you straight up.

And man, in this current world where there is no truth anymore, you will shine like a lighthouse in a stormy ocean. Make sure to call Rachel. We'll be right back. Hey, good folks. Let's talk about hallow. All right. I say this all the time. It's important to get away for times of prayer and meditation by yourself with no one else around. But one thing you might not think about, though, is maintaining a sense of community when you pray or meditate.

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Three free months of the app when you go to hallow.com slash Deloney. Go right now and change your life. All right, let's go out to the LAC, Los Angeles, California, and talk to Sarah. What's up, Sarah? Hi, Dr. John. How are you? I'm remarkable. How are you?

I'm doing well. So I was calling because I was hoping to get some advice or some tools to deal with anxiety and fear around aging. Can I just tell you, thank you for calling. No one's ever called with this question and it plagues all of us. Thank you. So for context, I'm 41 and I've never... Oh my gosh! Are you on social security already? I'm just kidding. I've never felt better. I'm...

I've never been more physically fit or happier or confident finally than I am right now. And I love it. Things are great. However, I feel like it's the last 10 seconds of attractiveness and I'm noticing the first signs of aging.

And also, if I'm completely honest, I've thought about it a little bit and I wonder and I think it's more of an identity issue. I wouldn't admit this just, you know, social circle, but I think I've tied my identity to being pretty. Stop it, Sarah. Are you for real? Yeah. No way. And so that only lasts a little bit, right? Right.

How do you deal with aging if you've tied your identity possibly maybe to being attractive? I know that sounds super vain and shallow. Hey, Sarah, Sarah, Sarah, it doesn't at all. Not even a tiny bit. Not even a little, little, little bit. Okay? Free yourself from that. Everybody's dealing with that. Everybody's dealing with it. And here's the deal. It just depends on what scale you are.

Jennifer Aniston is dealing with that, with the upper echelon, right? Yeah, right. And Jennifer Aniston's sitting there and Reese Witherspoon walks in and there's that little bitty voice. It's like, mm-hmm, well, mm, right? Right. And then if you are...

I'm just being awful here, but like, if you're not in that, in that upper echelon, if you are just regular, like me, you're looking at a bunch of regular people and you're like, all right, I got that guy, but I don't know if that guy, I don't have that guy. What's that guy's doing with his hair? Like, right. It's just wherever you happen to, wherever you have slotted yourself in the judgment of the world, you're comparing up or down. So you're not crazy. Um, yeah.

I'm just interested, where did the message that beauty equals worth come from? I don't know. You're 41. Did your dad have a Playboy in the house growing up? No. Did they do Weight Watchers growing up? Like, yeah, my mom. Okay. Okay, so my mom had a facelift when I was one. She was an older mom. So there's that. Sarah, lead with that next time.

How much older of a mom? She's 78? No, she's in her 80s now, but she was 40. So she had a facelift young. I think the women in my family, there's a lot of facelifts. Are you for real?

I don't know. Where did that story come from? Oh, my 40-year-old mom. Okay, good. Good. I'm just going to take a wild guess and say maybe it was there. Maybe it was there. So were the women in your life hypercritical of looks and appearances and fine lines and gray hairs and each other and the people in the peripheral circles? Yeah, a little bit. I don't have...

I don't know. I always just viewed my mom as my mom. So she doesn't have any like weird, crazy stuff done or anything. She had a facelift when she was 40. I was like one. So I don't really remember. Your nervous system does and your dad does. Yeah. Well, actually a core memory is her standing in the mirror, pulling her face up with her hands. Sarah. Sarah.

And I was always like, why are you like this? And then now I'm like, oh, yeah. Like, if you just pull it back a little. Okay, hold on. It's very rare that that level of detail. Okay, look, we all look in the mirror and go, oh, my gosh, my hairline's receding. My face is sagging. Like, whatever. Like, right? We all do that. All of us do that.

But that exaggerated where I'm going to take surgical steps. I am going to, like, I'm going to continue to be very critical of my own appearance. It's very rare that that doesn't make its way onto your kids. Right. So tell me about this mom who was 50 when you were 10. What were you allowed to wear? Oh, okay.

I was a little more of a tomboy punk rocker, shaved head, piercing kind of teenager. So you went total full middle family. Total opposite. My mom was in Nordstrom's and I had a shaved head and piercing. Good on you. My mom was always like, you are...

Beautiful. My angel. Like she was always like, never said anything bad about me or like, Oh, I don't like you. You know, she had her piercing. She always was like, amazing. Even if people in public questioned it, she goes, it's she's beautiful. Why? So I always felt very loved and supported by my mom and still do. Was it because you were beautiful? I don't know. Hmm.

Yeah, I don't know. Because I know little boys sometimes get told that they're great at Little League. Mm-hmm. And they grow up with an obsession around performance because that was how their nervous system connected with the adults in their world. You know, interestingly enough, so my mom has three children and, you know, I think everyone maybe has a label, right? Like my older sister's the smart one. I think I'm the pretty one. Ah. What does older sister do for a living? She...

She doesn't do much. She struggles quite a bit with depression and does not have much of a functional life. Okay. So you're on the precipice there, huh? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Your answer's in the question you asked. You asked it brilliantly. But I think if you were just to reverse engineer your question, the answer's right there. You have to make an active choice, and this is going to be very, very difficult for you.

And if I told you anything other than that, I'd be lying to you. You're going to have to decide I'm going to decouple my worth from my looks. And that's not a thing that you can't just cut a string. You have to do things. You have to find purpose and meaning in other things that will reinforce and support that pillar you're about to pull out from your life. And by the way, I wholeheartedly...

With every ounce of my being reject the notion that you're on the last 10% of your attractiveness. That's nonsense. I heard a great, he was kind of a philosopher guy, but he said the only difference between a 65-year-old man and a 25-year-old man is that for the 65-year-old man, they think 65-year-old women are beautiful too.

Oh, I hope that's the case. I'm telling you right now it's the case. And by the way, that external beauty, who cares? I'm not going to outsource that to a dude. That was just a trope. I'm telling you. Well, also, you know,

Growing up in the early 2000s where everybody was like ultra skinny and you'd be, you know, growing up thinking you're fat. Finally, after 20 years, I finally feel super confident and really good. And I'm like, man, what a waste of 20 years feeling bad about myself. Now I feel really good. And I kind of feel like,

regret that I didn't feel that for the last 20 years. What does that regret getting you right now? Nothing. I don't want to be 60 and look at myself when I was 40 and think, remember when I thought I was old when I wasn't? You will. 100% you will. I know. But you just have to decide, I'm going to take those with joy. Because here's the deal. You were a kid that grew up in a part of town that had a lot of pollution in the air.

And that was the pollution in the air that was the 80s and 90s and early 2000s, which is the thinner, the better. And that was, that's just the air you breathe. And you got out. Now you're living on a farm, right? You're like, the air is fresh and it's awesome. You're like, man, I wish I could have grown up. Okay, you didn't. So let's just, let's just make sure moving forward that the air is clean.

I like that. But you have to decide. So make peace, make peace because it is. And by the way, you can't, you can't undo any of it. So it's just a choice to be miserable right now. And I don't, we have, we don't have enough time left to be, to choose misery in the present. You have to ask yourself, um, let me just, I'll just cut to the chase. Let me give you a great homework assignment. I'm going to give you two things. Okay. Okay. Number one, I want you to write a letter to your 55 year old self.

And I want you to tell her who you're going to become in the next 15 years, who you're going to work towards, how you're going to be a good steward of your body. Not because it has to remain a certain aesthetic, but because you're worth feeling good every day. Right? Right. And I'm telling you, like, you've been around people that aren't classically attractive, but they are stunning. You want to be around them. Yes. Yes.

And that is from the inside out. That's character. That's dignity. That's someone who looks in the mirror and loves who they are and what they see. That's my hope, for me at least. And my hair will fall out and my skin will set. I've seen my grandparents. I know exactly what's coming. It's not great. It's not great, right?

Yeah. But I loved being around my grandparents because they were hilarious. And my grandmother was one of the best trash talkers ever. Right? And my granddad thought my grandmother hung the freaking moon. And when my granddad died, my grandmother died right afterwards. And I'm talking about romantic love. Forget like being happy with what you see in the mirror, right? Right. I want you to...

Not judge yourself the way you think other people are judging you because they're not. And here's your last homework assignment. I want you to write your eulogy. Oh, you mean pretty is not going to be on the list? Nope. It might be. Here's the deal. Pretty probably won't, but beautiful might. You get the difference there? Yes. Beauty resonates. Pretty is youth, but beauty resonates. It comes from way down within.

And you just have to decide I'm worth that and I'm going to work towards. And here's what that means practically speaking. Maybe you don't look in a mirror on the weekends or maybe you commit to whatever your particular fixation is. Drop your shoulders and remember a time when like where you earned that eye crinkle. Or if I smile right now, like I'm getting old, right? So the crinkles around my eyes are big. I remember that.

My wife telling me when she was my girlfriend, that was her favorite part, that I smiled with my whole face. And now I'm old. And so you could tell, right? But I remember back to every time I'm like, man, geez, it looks like my face wads up. Every time I smile, I remember back to that was my wife's favorite thing. And by the way, that still is her favorite thing. That makes sense. It does.

Irvin Yalom talks about this thing called death anxiety. And ultimately, when we get labeled with you're smart, you're pretty, you're the fast one, you're the quick-witted one, they become our identity. And over time, they become our way of hedging against this bus that's coming down the highway for all of us, which is we're all going to die. And

Um, we seem to be the only species that fears that with the existential anxiety that we've put on it. So I'm going to live the best life I got. I'm going to have as much joy and fun and great relationships as I can while I'm here. And I'm going to love well. And if I get age spots, that'll suck. But what else are you going to do? Right? Right. Okay. How does that all hit you? Hmm.

Pretty good. Pretty accurate. I'll do the things. The letter. They won't heal you. I think the eulogy one's actually really good because I think that puts it into perspective. Yeah, those aren't the things that people remember you. By the way, I don't need to...

If I asked, you know, all my friends, what do you value most about me? Not a single one would say, cause you're pretty. No, but they might say you have a beautiful spirit. We love it when you walk into a room, you're radiant. Not man, you make us all feel bad that we have a forehead lines. And I mean, but it's just a matter of you believing that about yourself. Do you have kids? Yeah.

I do. I have a son who just turned 14 and another son who's about to turn 12. Have you passed this on to them? I don't believe so. Okay. Good on you. I mean, I would say like, fortunately they're,

So, I mean, maybe it's a little different. No, I mean, I've wrestled with it too. I'm a boy. I would say a lot of it is internal. It's not though. That's the problem. Yeah, you're right. It's not. And kids especially absorb it when you look in the mirror and you drop it and you're like, eh. You know, my son, he'll be 12 on Saturdays.

Friday. He actually loves looking at himself in the mirror and he's always looking at himself in the mirror and he looked at me, he goes, I am more beautiful than you. And I'm like, okay. And you shove him and say, no, you're not. Look at this. Right. Yeah. He's joking. He's like, I am so much more beautiful than you. I'm like, okay. And then he watches you be all sad about it. Maybe invite him in and y'all, you can count your fine lines together. That might be a fun, like just a way to just get through it. Just walk through it.

Fear, here's the deal, it just ends for all of us. And death anxiety is real, the fear of aging is real, and anyone who tells you it's not isn't being honest with you. I think for all of human history, people have spent most of their energy trying to not die, like get food and shelter. And we've just entered into this little sliver of history where we can worry about other things.

Or it's not just royalty that get to worry about things like beauty and it keeps going on down the line. And now we're handed these boxes, these digital boxes that tell us in these magazines and whatever, however you consume media that says like, oh, this is what beauty is supposed to look like. And if you don't look like this, then you're not enough. And if you're not enough, then he's probably gonna leave you. You're gonna be left alone, et cetera, et cetera. All that stuff is real. And I can't deal with any of that stuff. I can just choose to turn off the devices.

I can choose to believe my wife when she says, I think you're handsome. I can choose to exhale and remember stories. I can choose to think about my son or daughter writing my eulogy. And I promise my looks is not going to show up on that. I promise it won't. It just comes down to you believing you're worth it. And I think you are. I think you are. Thank you so much for the call, Sarah. You're a saint. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life, and it's the worst thing.

If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself, and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life.

Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost.

Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. All right, we're back. What just happened was so great. Okay, keep going, Kelly. So I said that that last call definitely hit close to home. So I'm 50 now and...

I get it. It's rough, the idea of aging. And, you know, I was telling them earlier, I have this little internal, when I'm looking at social media, people I graduated high school with. So we're all the same age of, I look younger than her, right? Yeah.

And, you know, and I'll ask my husband, I'm like, oh, like, look how bad she's aging. You know, that it's so stupid. But when we were just in here talking, Kelly, who's filling in on the phones today, who's 28. So there's a good bit of difference between us. A huge bit of difference. See, see. I'm probably not making it better. Sorry. No, not, not at all. But the idea that, you know, I grew up with a mother who loved me very, very much. No question. But the idea that, you know, pretty girls, you know.

The whole idea of boys don't date girls that have a little pudgy tummy, who, mind you, I was a size two when I graduated high school. And that everything was about being pretty and popular and in all the right things and dating the right guy, the football player or whatever. And that the little snide comments of, careful about eating that. What was it you said? A moment on the lips is a lifetime on the hips. Yeah.

Good God. Oh, and that was normal about, you know, well, are you sure you want that second helping? And like I said, I weighed 98 pounds. Hold on, a moment on the lips, a lifetime on the hips. Oh, I've heard that my entire life. And,

And nothing tastes as good as skinny fills. Oh my gosh. I know so many things that taste better than skinny fills. Oh, heck yeah. A lot of things. But that I remember going from when I went from like a zero to a two and it was like, well, that's a slippery slope. Be careful.

And that the fact that, you know, she's half my age and nothing's changed. Right. And we're still having those conversations. And I hope it's changing for the generation after this. But that, and they meant well. It wasn't mean. It was, we want you to go out and have all these, and to do these things and to have all these opportunities. And that only happens for pretty girls. Skinny girls. And it wasn't about being healthy. It was skinny.

Yeah. That's what we talked about. Like there was a, there was a 20 or 30 year window. I grew up in the Kate Moss heroin chic. I was telling the guys, it's like they literally called it heroin chic. Yes. Because that was the whole thing is to look like you're on heroin. Yes. And it wasn't until I saw some of those people in real life that it was like, Oh,

Good gosh. And the camera adds 10 pounds and you didn't have the 10 pounds. Right. Wow. Yeah. Like if you hug that person, they just disintegrate. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, it's a legit thing. And that idea now is those of us, you know, as I'm at Sephora spending $200 trying to find something and we talked about standing in the mirror, you know, the caller said it too. Like this used to be here and now it's here. And what do I have to buy to make it?

here well I this is something I wouldn't pay attention to just it was it was in my periphery but Sephora's buying like young influencers like I guess you have like Sephora tags like that young like 14 15 and 16 year olds are using retinol products and oh yeah

And dermatologists are talking about it's ruining them and they're going to age faster because of it. Yeah. Yeah. I actually was at Sephora the other day and buying God only knows what. And, but there was a girl coming up and mom was asking a question and the woman that worked there, she's like, she doesn't need this. Yes. Correct. I was so happy. Good job. She was like, but it's what all of her friends are getting, but you don't understand the damage it's going to do. They bought it anyway, but that idea. Yeah. It's, it's insane. As a woman aging, aging,

And sadly, aging doesn't start when you're 50. It's in your 20s. Yeah. So it's something that happens that you deal with for, I mean, your entire, I was going to say your teenage life and decides. It breaks my heart. It breaks my heart that women carry that. It breaks my heart at the disconnect, romantically speaking. And I never want to outsource beauty to what does somebody else think about me, right? Right.

But I think that's an important thing to just throw out there. Like, Ben, has there ever been a moment in your life when you're like, man, I really like her a lot. She's hilarious. She's got that one line when she smiles by her eye that I'm out. Can't say I've ever really cared about that or that's not a deal breaker. Yeah, I just, it breaks my heart. But we know, and I think Kelly will probably agree, that

It's not men that are the issue. It's other women. And moms and self. And moms and coaches and whatever else. But it's rarely other men. I mean, other men. It's never other men. It's never men saying that to you. It's never men saying, well, if you adjust this or, oh, you've put on five pounds, huh? If they are, they're horrible humans. And we have no problem with that. It's women and beauty standards and

commercials and now social media. And it's like, it's always other women. I don't know what to do about that one. So next show, Kelly is actually going to do an entire segment on how to feel more beautiful.

Probably not. It's going to be sponsored by Christina Aguilera. Is she the one like, you are beautiful no matter what they say? A lot of plastic surgery there, so I don't think that's going to be the... See? She couldn't help it. She couldn't help it. Hey, thank y'all for joining us today. If you struggle, if with this idea of this anxiety around aging, around not feeling quote-unquote pretty, find somebody and say it out loud. Find somebody and say it out loud.

And if you have a pack of men or women that you do life with, make a commitment to each other that we're going to begin to seek beauty. And that comes from the inside out. Except for Ben, you got to fix that beard, dude. I'll get on it. Looks a little bit itchy. Just kidding. I don't even know what to say. I tried to even say something. I can't even say something. Love you guys. Bye.