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Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. My wife's sister has had a few mental health concerns over the last several years. Got diagnosed with schizophrenia. Hey, Jordan, how old is she? She is 40. She just got diagnosed with schizophrenia at 40? Yes. Good God. What's up? What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. Taking live calls from real people going through real challenging moments in their lives.
Some may be challenging moments, some may be going through challenging seasons. Wherever you happen to find yourself, whether you're struggling with your mental health, you're struggling with people that you love, you're struggling with people that you used to love. Whatever's going on in your world, with your emotional health, your mental health, your relationships,
I'm here, and I'll sit with you, and we're going to figure out what's the next right move. If you want to be on this show, you got stuff going on in your life, and you want a neutral third party that you probably never met. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291, or go to johndeloney.com slash ask. A-S-K. We'll have you on. We'll have a blast. All right, let's go out to Chicago, Illinois, and talk to not Michael, just Jordan. What's up, Jordan?
Hey, Jordan, how old is she?
She is 40. She just got diagnosed with schizophrenia at 40? Yes. Good God. She's had a couple different stints at different facilities. I would imagine. And then she moved down a couple hours away and had a most recent, I don't know if the right term is episode, but kind of like a mental breakdown where she was struggling real bad and not taking care of herself. And so they got her checked in. Yeah, she's schizophrenic. She would have been dealing with this...
for most of her adult life, especially, has she had troubles for years?
Um, they thought it was bipolar. She's definitely had struggles for at least the last five to seven years. They thought it was bipolar. Um, most recently, um, I haven't been there. My wife went down with her siblings a couple of times and they say it feels like a much better facility this time, much better taking better care of her. So I guess they have more, more confidence in this diagnosis. I want to say, I'm just saying like, if she's been, if she's been dropped into the world as an undiagnosed schizophrenic or, uh,
I say, and worse, she was misdiagnosed and being treated for something that's different. I mean, gosh, what a nightmare to be trapped in that situation. And the ripple effects on everybody's family, right? Has it been tough to be in a relationship with her for a season? Or for years, I guess?
Yeah, it's been real tough for a while. And especially tough on my wife. Like this is her sister. She was closest to growing up to the closest thing. She's one of six, but they grew up very close. They were close in age. They were both sisters. They shared a bedroom and just been kind of shocking for her to see like all the changes and everything that's been going on. Okay. So go for it.
So my wife has struggled with anxiety. She has for a while. She deals with them. You know, we talk things through, we have our own system for things like that. But she also, when this started happening and getting worse with her sister, she's worried about a potential genetic component to things like that and worried, you know, every little thing that might go wrong has her scared and worried about going down a similar path and having the same kind of issues. Okay. I just want to know. Is she going to get tested?
She has not. Okay. I would stop everything in the world and go get that done. Chances are she's – is she 42? How old is your wife? My wife is 34. Okay. If she was 34 and schizophrenic and or bipolar or schizoaffective or whatever diagnosis they're going to throw at the wall on this one, she would already be struggling in a pretty significant way. You would know too.
That's what I thought, but I'm also not desperate to steal by any means. I know. So watching somebody you love that you have memories with that you're incredibly...
I'm trying to think of a non-nerd word that you're coupled tightly with, that you are very close to, that you see yourself in. Watching them unwind, which is what an untreated schizophrenic will experience, just this unmooring. It's terrifying. Would be scary to watch. And as a person who wrestles with anxiety, and I imagine all six kids have their own struggles. Is that fair? For the most part, I'd say. I mean, some are much more...
Well adjusted to it to know there's a lot of them disconnect from the whole thing as time has gone on with frustrations. Yeah, that disconnection is called a thing too, but that's for another call. All I have to say is she needs to go sit down with a psychologist, and I would recommend a psychologist here, not a traditional therapist, a traditional counselor, but sit down with a psychologist and get the assessments done just for her own peace of mind.
Okay, absolutely. And then she's got some real data in front of her. I mean, does that make sense? I want to walk right into the middle of this thing. I don't want to do any dancing around it because the dancing around it is just going to put gasoline on that anxiety. That makes sense to me. Is that fair? Yes. You've probably told this exact thing, haven't you? We've talked about it. I think there's a little bit of fear about going to get it checked out because it becomes either nothing or very, very real. No, just not, not, not. Anytime you get to name the dragon, it's a good thing.
anytime you find out there's not a dragon it's an even better thing and then we get to ask ourselves the bigger question if let's say she goes and the doctor says nope you're not schizophrenic you're not bp1 i mean you're you're good um then you and her get to ask the bigger questions about this anxiety and you have to grieve your her sister your sister-in-law those are hard things right
But let's deal with the environmental issues that are causing her body to sound all these anxiety alarms. Let's deal with those. And you can play a major role in walking alongside her there. But let's say she goes and sits down and this doctor says, yeah, actually, I'm going to diagnose you with bipolar 1. Cool. We've named the dragon. Now we have a roadmap towards healing.
Or towards management, depending on what the issue is. How is this playing out in y'all's life? So it played out, I want to say, almost slightly less intense each time that there's been some kind of episode on her sister's part. Because it's almost become a part of reality. And so it's not like the shock factor is not there like it used to be. Yeah.
But the, so she doesn't, she's gotten just, we've been married for 12 years now. Um, I've seen her anxiety grow, like get better leaps and bounds over the last several years. But this, which totally makes sense to me is obviously a huge trigger to cause that anxiety and fear to come back up. Yeah. And there tends to just be like, she's a little more trigger prone to things while that's going on, which I totally understand. Sure. It's just, I want to know how to best walk through that while it's happening. Yeah.
So I think you have to walk right into the middle of it. And for some people, this might look like, and I know I say this all the time, it might look like sitting down and writing a letter to your sister that you may never send, but one that says, I miss you. I'm going to miss you. And our relationship has changed. And we're going to get you the right medication and care, and I'll do the best I can. And do you have kids? Yes, three. Okay, so their aunt so-and-so is, there's going to be a different relationship there.
And I, but it's, it's about taking ownership of what happens. Just getting yourself back in the driver's seat. She needs to get back in the driver's seat of her own life. Cause when someone you love gets a diagnosis, whether it's cancer or it's schizophrenia or it's whatever a, you can sometimes look backwards and go, Oh yeah, I remember I saw this coming in slow motion and you can blame yourself for
Um, but also there's this sense that the world just happens to us and I've got no agency left in my, in the world and a lack of agency spins your body out. And what we wanted to do is to regain agency here. This happened to her sister. It didn't happen to her. What's the next move, right? Right. Can you love her well through this? I do my absolute best. Okay. Let me give you a hint. Okay. We're going to be with, we're not going to solve.
One of the greatest gifts a husband could give his wife navigating what you're navigating right now is to not say we need to go X, Y, and Z, but to ask, what do you think is the next right move? And what you're doing is you're demonstrating her agency for her in moments when it gets really thin and she doesn't believe she has it anymore. And she'll look at you and go, I don't know. And you say, I trust you. And then if she says, we need to sell the house, we need to move that. Well, you can be like, okay, we're not gonna do that.
But asking questions instead of saying, well, you need to, and how come you haven't? Say, I hate this. I hate that you're hurting like this. I'm here for you. What's the next right move? And you are demonstrating, I trust you. You can trust you. You see what I'm saying? Yes, sir. Have you been a solver for her? Yes, that tends to be my problem sometimes. Does that then just pour gas on the whole thing?
Sometimes she's also, she told me the other day that she was talking to her sister and she said that it helps me talking through things with her and giving possible solutions at times. Okay. But that's for anxiety, not for necessarily this new side of things. Yeah, this is just grief, man. She lost her sister, yet her sister is still here. It's a scary, hard thing. And maybe her sister can get the medication that she needs and, um...
Man, I am so far from an expert on schizophrenia. I'm on another planet when it comes to any sort of expertise or insight into schizophrenia, but I have not heard of somebody being newly diagnosed at 40 without, I'm trying to think, man, maybe one or two, but there's a wake of, oh yeah, we missed that one. There's definitely been a few years of different...
and episodes and she could have been misdiagnosed. It's been going on for probably five years, but it also kind of blends together. So I'm not exactly sure of my timeline. Um, but she was on different types of medication, which also I don't know a lot about. Sure. Um, and they would do every time there'd be some kind of issue, they'd adjust the meds, which I understand that's how a lot of those illnesses work. You kind of get used to a certain thing and then you have to change it up essentially. Well, and sometimes it's just throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks.
like they'll use language like we're going to start you here report back in 30 or 60 days and we'll do what we need to do next right so i mean this is kind of a whack-a-mole game sometimes
And then there's been times where she goes off her medication because she doesn't like how she feels on it or things like that, which will prompt an issue. Right. That can unspool pretty quick. What my fear is in this situation is you have somebody that's been medicated, rightly or wrongly, for bipolar 1 for a long time, for years, who then gets off the medication and has some sort of psychotic episode that then gets...
Gets captured in some sort of assessment and then gets relabeled something else when actually it's episodic and it's it's pharmacological in nature. But I did. I have no I mean, I'm way out over my skis now. So I'm going to trust the doctors here. Yeah, I would I would recommend strongly that you sit down with your wife and say, I want to fully support you to go get the testing that you need. Let's go get it. Let's pay for it. Let's go get it. And it is a way to bring peace.
And hang on the line, I'm going to send you a copy of my number one bestselling book, Building a Non-Anxious Life. I want you all to read that together. And I want you all to look at your life with the roadmap that I put in that book and say, okay, where can we begin here? Creating a peaceful life so that when Sister has another episode, we're ready. We're ready financially. We're ready relationally. We're ready physically. We're ready in all these spiritually, all these areas so that we can show up.
so he can show up. You're a good man, dude. Your wife's lucky to have you by her side. Be with, not at. Show her that you trust her, even in those moments when she doesn't trust herself. Call me anytime, brother. We'll be right back. Hey, good folks, let's talk about hallow. All right, I say this all the time. It's important to get away for times of prayer and meditation by yourself with no one else around. But one thing you might not think about, though, is maintaining a sense of community when you pray or meditate.
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clickaroos on the internets makes such a big difference. I just got to any app in the, let's go out to Indiana and talk to Lynn. What's up, Lynn? Hi, what's up? Thank you very much. I'm, I'm fine. I got a question for you. All right, bring it. Um, is therapy the right next step for my son who experienced, uh, anxiety and fear after a serious car accident that he witnessed? Oh man, what happened?
Um, I think, I think what makes it kind of unique is, um, my husband, his dad and two siblings were in the car, uh, that he got to watch the accident happen in front of our home. So, um, it's not something, uh, that we can just walk away from and not be in that area. Um, it's something you see daily. Um,
And it was a serious car accident talking to... I mean, I watched it too, so I already knew that. But a few months later, I talked to other people that were behind the cars. There was two cars that hit them, actually. And they said it was the most...
What's the word? They used the most traumatic accident that they had ever witnessed as semi-drivers and motorists. There was two of them that we spoke with. Is everybody okay?
They are. It was one of those things that when we walked out of the hospital, we just didn't know how that was even possible. The semi-driver thought that the coroner was coming and that's why they had the road cut off for so long. So it was definitely... I understand exactly how he feels because that's just... I got to watch it too with him, but I don't know how to take care of a kid that no longer wants to get in a car and no longer wants to...
It just noises on that road bother him too. So that's where we're having a struggle with. How old is he? He is nine. Nine? He's nine. Yeah, I'm a bouncy boy. How's mom doing? I actually...
After the accident, I sat and I just videotaped a statement just because I thought that might help getting it out of my head. I don't know. Or just imprint it further. Yeah. I guess so. And then...
We did have to seek counsel to make sure all the bills got, the medical bills got taken care of it. And because it had multiple vehicles that were involved, we were suggested just to get someone to make sure everything got paid correctly. Hey, Lynn. Yes. How's mom?
I am okay. How's mom? It's terrible. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Stop. You went straight to work and then you went straight to funny and then you went straight to caretaker. I don't care about any of those hats. Take all those hats off and just sit for a second. How's mom? You almost lost two of your kids and your husband in one fell swoop and you almost washed it. Yep. How's Lynn? Yeah. I am better than I was. That's not an answer. How's Lynn?
I'm probably not good. The more you run from that, the harder things are going to be. Yeah. Sit in that for a second. How old are your other kids? The two in the car were 10 at the time, 10 and 7. And then a four-year-old also got to not witness as much, but she got to see the helicopter that came and everything else.
I can think of no more terrifying incident in the entire world than what you saw and what you assumed happened. Yeah. And there's no more terrifying thing than having to, A, be a caretaker to two small kids. At the same time, did they let you fly in the helicopter or did you have to drive? So actually the helicopter, they could only take one person and they took one of the drivers. And unfortunately I had to already...
been in the EMT going to the next hospital and we just decided to just take... Our son was the one that they wanted to airlift. I think seeing it all from... I have a tracking app on my husband just to see where he's at. So I don't have to call him if he's driving. And we were trying to get ready for dinner and I knew he was...
four or five minutes away. So we all were sitting on top of the hill waiting for them to get there to have dinner. And the first noise, I remember just looking up and seeing it all. No, don't blow by it. What did you see? I saw the first... I heard and saw the first hit. And then the car behind him then just slammed into...
and I watched it just do like a 360 all the way around. And at the 360, that's when I, that second hit, I knew that was my kids. So I ran down. There's an instance, there's an instance, like it detaches real quick, doesn't it? Yeah. It almost looks cartoonish, right? Yes, and it just plays over and over. I knew that I had gotten to them
Like, I can tell you, as soon as the car stopped rolling back and, like, it teetered back and forth, almost going into a ditch. And I remember, I mean, I booked it pretty good down that hill. I can tell you exactly the words I yelled. And I had to wait for that car tire to stop on the ground so I could...
run across the road and open the door. And I know you're not supposed to touch people when they're in car accidents, but, um, Hey, you tell a mama with two kids and a husband in a car. I know. I know that. And I, um, um, I didn't, I cannot imagine if they had passed away. I just, that's, um, Hey Lynn, I want you to sit on that for a second. Exhale. You're not breathing. I can hear you not breathe. Exhale. And I want you to hear me real clear.
They could have, but they didn't. Yep. Right? Yep. You get to see something that most people never get to see, and that's a real clear look over the cliff, but you didn't fall. Yep. Right? Mm-hmm. And this is going to sound bananas, but your body has a vested interest in that never happening again, so it replays it, and it replays it, and it replays it, and it replays it. Mm-hmm. And you have to choose to not replay it. And that sounds wild. Yep.
It comes into your mind like a lightning bolt in weird moments, right? Yes. Yes. And then it feels like you are dishonoring your two kids. It feels like you're dishonoring your husband. It feels like you're dishonoring the other driver when you try to blow past it. You're not. You're healing. So here's the old, I won't go through all the drama, but
When that thought pops into your head, you have a choice. Am I going to meditate on it and go down the rabbit hole and my heart rate's going to spike up and cortisol and adrenaline is going to dump into my body? I'm going to go right back into sprinting down that hill physiologically or I'm going to consciously exhale and I'm going to close my eyes real tight and I'm going to remember all five of us walking out of the hospital.
You get to pick which one of those photos you meditate on. One of them will bring you healing and peace over time, and the other one's going to make you nuts. It could have, but it didn't. Okay? And Brene Brown calls it dress rehearsing tragedy. Your body thinks if we just keep rehearsing this over and over, the next time we'll be more prepared. You won't. You won't. Now, why am I talking to you? Because your nine-year-old is absorbing every molecule of this.
Yes. Okay. I think therapy would be fine. With a nine-year-old, they're going to play. They're probably going to give him some cars in a couple of sessions after they develop some rapport, and they're going to play with the cars. And he's going to kind of drive it. No pun intended. He's going to drive the session. Probably what I would do in my house before that, if I'm the dad, I would take that nine-year-old, and I would walk that nine-year-old really slowly down the hill. And we would go walk around out there on the road.
And we talk about it being scary. But what you'd be doing is you'd be bringing your child from that terrifying moment into the present. We're okay now. And kids are amazingly resilient if and only if they have present adults with them. And you being really open about how scary that was. Here's an example, a totally benign example in comparison, okay?
I speak for a living. I have for 20 years. Even when I was working in universities, I was always speaking on some stage somewhere. And the biggest one I ever did, I walked into a room that I thought was just going to be a parent-teacher thing. And it ended up being, I walked through the doors and it was a packed miniature coliseum. It was about 5,000 people in there. And my son was with me. And it was one of those weird, I thought it was going to be about 1,000 people. And it was like, whoa, wow.
And I sat down and I saw him sitting next to me and his eyes were huge. And I said, hey, let me see your hand. And I took his hand and I unbuttoned my shirt and I put it inside my shirt and put it on my chest. He could feel my heart beating out of my chest because I was so nervous. And I said, do you feel that? And he goes, yeah. And I said, your daddy's real nervous. And he said, you? And I go, I'm so nervous. Look at all these people.
And instead of trying to act tough, I brought him right into the middle of it because then he got to see me button my shirt. When they called my name, I winked at him and I got up on stage and did my thing. And most of us want to take that discomfort moment, that sphere moment from our kids instead of bringing it in with us, bringing them along with us. I think it would be cool for you to go for a walk holding your nine-year-old's hand and walk down that hill towards that site. Yeah.
We've kind of, I guess that's the part we have not. And then if you're, if you're a nine-year-old, then like you're, some people, it's a rare percentage. I don't have a percentage off the top of my head, but they will shut down. They'll go catatonic. They will just implode or scream and yell and refute, right? Then if those moments happen, yeah, of course, take them to a counselor. No question about it.
Ours is more of just, hey, let's go 30 minutes somewhere to a friend's house. And he just will, he is having nothing to do with that. His body's working perfectly. Okay. Because he knows that y'all are scared too. Yeah.
And this happened like almost 10 months ago. That's where I felt like I gave it enough time. You're still right there on the surface with you, Lynn. I know it is. I know. I guess I assumed because he seems to always kind of just brush things off that this might be a brushing off incident. That's incredible. I know, but I really did think like...
Out of all my kids, he's probably going to forget about this quite quickly. He'll never forget. This is imprinted in his nervous system. Yeah. But most importantly, what's imprinted is beyond the incident, he knows that he plays some role in making sure mom's okay. And I don't want him to do that. I know. I know you don't. And it's not your fault. Yeah. But you have to decide to heal. Yeah. And dad has to decide to head right back into the storm with nine-year-old.
And preferably with other brothers and sisters if it's okay with them. The thing is, those guys in the car have no clue what went on. Of course. Not one. I mean, there's a huge blessing. I would hate for that. They just hopped in the car and came home from the hospital like... And I just... Because they were a part of it. There was an experiencing that happened and they were with dad. Yeah. And dad walked in and dad walked out. Yep. Yep.
There's a physiological component to this, not a sight and then a just all talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. That's why that experiencing is important. Which we have not done that. I've waited for a conversation if it needed to happen. I don't know that there's a – like you can't conversate with a nine-year-old. You have to experience. Okay.
But you got to do it too. Have you held hands with your husband and you all walked down that hill together? No, no, I'm not going to. No. I mean, we live there, so we see it all the time. No matter what you see, you got to experience it. Yeah. Nope. Do that together. Um, and then look him in the eye and grab him by the face and say, if you ever leave me, if you ever die, I'm going to kill you to death. You know what I mean? Oh, no. Um, boy, it does change a person though. Yeah, it does. It makes things real precious.
But it can also make you real hard too. Yep. Yeah. You can close your fist real tight, try to solve everything, or you can open real loose and just say, thank God for another day. Yes. One of those is going to lead you to coronary disease and the other one's going to lead you to be one of the funnest people around. Yeah. You're a good mom. Thank you. And you're lucky. Yes. I don't know. Lucky is a... Oh my word. Yeah.
So thankful. Okay. Get a dog named Lucky. Just own it. Own it. Right? Thank you very much. Here's your homework. Tonight. Okay. Maybe not. Maybe tonight's too soon or tomorrow. Ooh. You want to get real weird? Will you get weird with me? Sure. All right. You're going to write him a letter. Your husband. And you're going to hold hands and you're going to go down that hill and you're going to walk to the site and you're going to read it to him. Okay. Yep.
And I want you all just to sit there in that moment and experience it together. He's going to say, what the crap? That's 10 months ago. We're good. And I want you to finally have the courage to say, I'm still not good. And he's going to say something like, what the crap? I was in the wreck. Why are you, am I supposed to take care of you? And you said, yes, you are. And then the next homework assignment is he needs to walk his son down that hill together. Talk about how scary it was, but never let his hand go.
So that he can feel that what's scary and dad's okay. Bad things can happen and they usually don't. Okay? Yep. And then you take him down. Okay. Okay. I can do that. I know you can. I know you can. And parents, man, we think sometimes that hiding our emotions, like you said, it's just going to go away. It's not. Kids just learn that if things get real scary, we just, we shove them down. And if mom's not okay, let's figure out how to solve that. And I know you don't want that. Very few parents want that. Ugh.
Kids are incredibly resilient if they've got present honest parents who are as dr Kennedy says sturdy who will go with you who will be there kids can go through a lot They just can't go through it alone. I'm glad everybody's okay, Lynn. I'm so glad everybody's okay We've done a lot of work over ten months now. Let's get to the healing part and yes things don't improve pretty significantly and
There ends up being a phobia on a car. Take him to a counselor. It's great. A lot of amazing, amazing child counselors out there. Make sure to call in. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest,
A lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life, and it's the worst thing.
If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself, and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves.
If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost.
Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. All right, so, okay, here's the deal. I keep getting Instagram messages and emails and all sorts of electronic cards and letters saying,
with people um not knowing how to talk to each other during an election season and i know that i've been outspoken about not being outspoken about politics but it's just so many people keep reaching out like how do i talk to my in-laws when they're they are following every conspiracy theory down every rabbit hole and how do i talk to this person they think that this
Jeez Louise. So I started writing this stuff out, but then I realized I have a friend who's way smarter and better than me at communication, how to talk to other people. And there's not really a doubt globally about that. So I called my buddy Jefferson Fisher and said, hey, would you hop on the show real quick? And so I'm bringing him on. Jefferson, what's up, man?
Hey, what's going on? How are you? Good. Thanks for bailing me out of my own segment here because you're smarter than me. Of course, brother. Anytime. That's what friends are for. Man. Excellent. I'm going to keep that in mind. Okay. So I wrote down a couple of ideas on how to talk to each other, talk to loved ones, how you talk to spouses, how you talk to your kids, how you talk to your in-laws about this election season.
When things get hot, things get tense, when you're going to a house and you know there are going to be a bunch of fill in your political party of choice or disdain. So you have no idea this call is coming and I just sprung it on you. So you have no prep at all. So off the top of your head, can you walk us through some ideas you would have for how to communicate during a contentious election season, particularly with people that you love or you're in relationship or you work with, but you know you're going to share differing views?
Hmm. That's a great question. It's certainly timely now. Um, what comes to mind, if you can believe it are three, three different things. And again, this is totally off the cuff because you just texted me, jump on my show. I did do. Um, yeah, is the idea that when people offer these opinions or, or kind of pressuring you to lean one way or another, they are often trying to not feel alone.
They're wanting to get you to gauge that you are with them on their side, that you are aligned in their kind of view. Because in that moment, they want to feel like they're with someone and they want to feel like they're on the right one page mindset. But that doesn't mean that you have to be. Often, they just want to be heard. Don't you think?
John, I mean, most of the time they just want to feel like somebody is hearing them out. So when you get those kinds of statements, you want to stay one is like neutral as possible. It doesn't mean that, uh, well, where you can really go down easily is when you just comment on their opinion of how dumb it is. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I can't believe you actually, you don't actually think that do you, as soon as you start to
throw those kind of barbs, then that hits that trigger of their own autonomy and embarrassment of feeling of credibility. And then it's just going to get defensive and go in a terrible place really, really quickly. But when you say neutral things like, well, that's helpful to know,
Well, maybe so. Well, it seems like that's really important to you. I appreciate that. Things that you're not agreeing with them, you're not disagreeing with them, but you're at least indicating that you're listening to them. It really, really goes a long way. Another way is to just, even if you need to say, well, I don't really agree with that. It's okay to say things like, well, I tend to lean a little differently. I see things differently or I prefer to think differently.
It's okay to say that you have a different view of it while still respecting theirs. The problem is just when you start to buck up against it and go, oh, no, that's the dumbest thing. I hate so-and-so. Somebody throws up a certain political opponent or candidate, and somebody immediately says, wow, I hate that guy or I hate that woman. These are very...
uh, just bomb conversations that, that can go wrong, uh, wrong really quickly. Yeah. When you do that, I, I, I think going back to what you were talking about earlier, if there's an innate fear of I'm alone here and I am trying to connect with people around me and I want to be right too. If I, if I prove to you your deepest fear that no, you're alone, uh,
Man, that's when the fight or flight kicks in, right? That's when you have no rational thought. You're just at war or I'm going to disengage in a pretty significant and abrupt way. So it's almost like I like what you're saying. You're saying, no, I want you to know I'm with you. I'm here and we can both be here and not agree with the same thing.
Yeah, I'm listening to you. I'm listening to you and I understand what you're saying and I respect what you're saying. It sounds like what you believe is important to you. It sounds like this issue is important to you. I think that's great. Now we might see, you know, you and I might see very differently on that, but I can understand where you're coming from.
Versus me trying to push a certain way. You and I have talked about this before. It's having something to learn rather than something to prove. If you're coming into the conversation to prove that somebody is more superior than someone else in a political form, then you're asking for a win. And you're most often not going to get it. That's why often you see these interviews. It doesn't matter what side of the row you're on.
these interviews with people and they ask them a certain thing about someone's stance. They don't have a clue most of the time, you know, or they ask, you know, what's your favorite policy or something. And they just don't know why they believe the way they believe. They just know they identify with that person on a different level. Maybe it's because it reminds them of their, a family member, or it, it, it means something to them in a way that you will never really understand. And so if you only come at it of a textbook, no,
No, you call the offense. I call the defense. You're often going to get into a situation where you're confused saying, well, what happened? When they're not even on the same wavelength, you're not even on the same channel. So even when you are saying something as simple as starting your sentence with, I'm not looking, I'm not looking to have an argument about this or go, oh, no, I don't have an argument either.
Or you, I'm not looking really to think differently on it, but I do like how you believe very strongly what you believe. Damn, they're not going to, where are they going to get upset with you about there? So often, even if you say, I'm not looking, like going into a store and just saying, I'm browsing, just browsing, I'm not really looking to get anything. It's okay to be like that in certain conversations, as long as you're not trying to prove them to be wrong.
Somebody that is not intelligent. Well, that goes back to understanding innately that when we're talking to somebody, just because you have a different thought than somebody or you're looking with a different lens does not mean you're smarter. Oh, yeah. And I love that. Like some folks vote for character like this. I don't care what this person's policies are. They never lie.
Or some people are like, I could care less, dude. They're going to go do their things, live their life. I love the pot. But you're trying to answer the same question and you're wearing two different sets of glasses or five different sets of glasses, right? So you're not smarter than me. We're just different on this. Exactly. And another way to think about it too is when you're asking somebody to change their mind or when you're trying to tell somebody that they're wrong.
But you're often not trying to tell them that only they're wrong. You're saying their family member's wrong, their dad's wrong, their grandmother's wrong, their church is wrong. I mean, you're trying to say...
a million different ways, all the things that have made them up, what they're made of over time and what they've been told their whole life is wrong. And you think that one conversation you're going to have with them is just going to magically and miraculously get them to open their eyes to make it see your way of thinking? That's not going to happen. Not certainly in one conversation, not even in
And multiple. It's much deeper than that. I've never seen somebody change their mind absent relationship. Oh, yeah. I think that's a great way of putting it. Or some way of connection with someone. Right. And it could be in the weirdest way.
weirdest way. I mean, if you see some candidate criticize or insult the other, some people like that. Some people just go, I like that person spoke their mind. Yeah. You know, there's nothing wrong with that in and of itself. It's not what I'm into, but that might be what they're into. So you can't, you can't expect that all go out the same way. What do you have to say for the person who,
And I think to some degree, all of us have a little bit of this in us. Some more than others. Some a lot more than others. The drama addict. The drama addict? Yeah, I call it the Dawson's Creek effect. Like where everything feels like a soap opera. But actually we're talking about lineages and people's lives. And it's like if I'm not enraged by something or if I don't have some sort of angst about something that I don't feel alive.
Yeah, you got to be careful of those type of people because they can just be a vacuum of all things, emotion and attention in your life. Often I find when there's some kind of drama or there's a dramatic conversation and it feels like drama in that moment, the best thing you can do is try and have a conversation with them outside. When I'm like, if something's going to happen...
I will typically tell someone, hey, let's go take a walk. Let's just walk while we're walking. And even if it's to go make a lap to a certain bench that's over at a nearby park or something, it just opens your eyes to...
And what are we doing? That sense of what's important and what's not in your life. And often the drama that is the drama of the day is not the drama of tomorrow. So it's just a continuous news cycle that you have to be really careful and have discernment about it and keep it at an arm's length. Because these type of behaviors, as you know, they can...
Especially for people pleasers, you just become a crutch for those types. You just, you become, they consume you in a way. Yeah, so there gets to be that awkward dance that gets pretty intense this time of year where there's a drama addict who finds a people pleaser and it just becomes like a very parasitic relationship. But they keep going back to each other, right? Because the people pleaser has somebody to prop up and the drama king has somebody to
right? It just kind of gets in this loop-de-loop-de-loop-de-loop. Go ahead, go ahead. I was going to say, and there's also that element of herd mentality when it comes to this time of a political season. It often revolves around where you live and the environment and culture of where you physically are and what you are exposed to. And there's just...
The struggles of somebody living X does not mean it's going to be the same struggles of someone who's living in Y. That's right. And so it's to say that just by having one conversation, you're on the same playing field is, is not accurate. There you go. And it's not won or lost with a gotcha. No one ever changes their heart and mind on a gotcha. Yeah. Because it's hard to find certain things that are not taken out of context. It's kind of,
And my dad would tell me early on, no, my grandfather would tell me if I had something, he'd say, well, were you there? And I'd say, no. He said, well, you might want to go talk to him. Yeah.
I mean, that was kind of, it didn't matter if what I thought was, it was a reputable source. It was always question was, well, were you there? And that always kind of brought me back to, well, no, I actually wasn't. So I don't know how somebody with their facial expression look like. I didn't, I don't know what they're, they were stressed out over at that time. So it's, it's easy to play the phone game of, of,
things being taken out of context so much that all you're getting is whispers. And it's a scary place if just a little bit of a mention of one side of a context is enough to throw somebody full scale into a defensive mode and words of negativity rather than positivity. Man, that feels like the world we're in right now. Last thing here. So this is just me having a
I don't know, kind of a pity party for myself, but I realized I have not seen, and again, I'm not a huge social media guy. I don't live there all day, every day, and I don't watch the news very much, if at all. But I noticed that I haven't seen anybody post anything about the upcoming presidential election with any sort of curiosity.
Meaning with any sort of, I'm weighing the merits here. Now we have a new candidate. All of a sudden, this candidate says this, this one's actually proposing this. I haven't seen a single instance of that. I've just seen grenades and mortar shells. And so the thought that popped into my head was, hey, if you've already made up your mind, turn all this off.
Right? You're just choosing to make yourself bananas. If you already know there's not a shadow of a doubt I'm voting for the other candidate. I've got my candidate. Okay, well, cool. You don't need to watch anything else. It's already over. Right? It's like I have a bad habit of watching an Astros game, watching it end, and then immediately going to ESPN to watch the highlights of the game I just watched. It's like I already know how it ends. Right? And so there's got to be something to...
And if you already know, back out. Go live your life. Go play with your kids. Go mow your lawn. Go plant a garden. Go feed the homeless. Go do something productive to add to the positivity in the world. Don't just keep climbing back in the sewer. You've already done your work in the sewer. You already know you're voting for. Let's move on with our day. Does that sound right or am I wrong there? I don't think you're wrong. I would tweak it. There is an exception in my mind for informed thought.
Meaning, yes, you can have your favorite person.
That's fine. But I do think, and just as a matter of civility, that you can continue to stay updated on who you think should be and who you should not think should be and all the wonderful American freedoms of free speech and say what they want to say. Now, if that's what they want to worry themselves about, and if that's what they want to get themselves worked up about,
then let them. I wouldn't be surprised at this notion that you're saying of, I don't see anybody approaching this with curiosity. Well, in my mind, John, it's because the people who say the loudest are often the ones on the farthest extreme. That's true. If you
you see like a stadium full of people, right? The ones who get the most attention are the ones who yell the loudest. No shirts. And they're pretty much just at a murmur. Yeah. Yeah. When you, when somebody just yells and throws the artillery shell, that's the one who gets that attention. And sometimes that's the most attention that person is ever going to get in their life. And so often, um,
It is these political seasons where they can say the craziest things or make the harshest statements because this is the time where they feel like they can get the most amount of self-gratification, self-importance of who they are, that they matter. And often if it's the people on farthest sides,
You know, it's the people in the middle that are relatively saying, hey, overall life's okay. You know, most people, you know, they don't know who the representative is. They don't know who their mayor is. That's right. I mean, they just, because the mayor doesn't pay the bills. Right. They're trying to pay the light bill. Yeah. Yeah. They're not the ones having to buy their gas. I mean, it's day to day. They're not the ones who are having to make sure they balance gas.
Dennis appointments with kids and schedules and what a theme day is it at their school? You know? So it just kind of becomes, there's only so much you can really care about in that exact moment. And if that's what they choose to care about, then that's what it means for them to feel important and feel like they've, they've said something and they matter. Now that doesn't mean it's my taste. It doesn't mean it's your taste, but it's,
It doesn't mean we have to participate. I am totally good with someone who's feeling like they want to continue some amount of informed thought on it. I love that, man. You're the man, dude, Jefferson. Thank you for, uh, letting me text you and you making it happen. Hopping on the call with me, dude, I'm really, really grateful. And, um, I know you've got a new book coming out and I cannot wait to get my hands on an early copy. And that's me, uh, dropping a hint there, send it my way. Hey, um,
Jefferson, you're the man. Appreciate you. And we'll link to Jefferson's because he needs the help to his millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of followers. And you can see why. He's one of the wisest, kindest people that I know. Thanks so much, Jefferson. Everybody, do the best you can to be people of civility. I know it's the most important election ever, which is what they said last time and the time before that and the time before that. But do your best to be people of civility. Kindness.
We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. I am just super excited to announce I'm hitting the road with my buddy Dave Ramsey this spring on a brand new tour. Just us two. And we're putting a new twist on this thing. We're going to talk about money. We're going to talk about relationships. And we're going to tell stories y'all have never heard before. It's going to be an incredible, fun night. But every night is going to be totally different because you, the audience, are going to help choose what we talk about.
You heard that right. It's going to be like no event you've ever been to. We're kicking it off in Louisville on April 21st, 2025. And then we're going to Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and then Kansas City. You're going to laugh. You're going to learn. And if we do our jobs right, you're going to change your life. Get your tickets for the Money in Relationships Tour today at RamseySolutions.com slash tour. All right. We are back. Kelly. Yes.
You wore sweatpants and a matching sweat top. Really? This is where we're going? This is what we're doing? It just feels like an adult onesie. Well, it is. It's a jumpsuit. It's 100%. What's your friend call it? My friend calls them quitters. Which is 100% valid. It's, I woke up this morning, what I planned on wearing had a stain on it. I can wear this without any effort whatsoever. 100%. The number of times I take...
Okay, so one time when I was coaching, I was 21 years old, and I worked at a high school, and the colors were purple and black. And I had some, like, running pants, like coaching wind pants, and they were purple. And I just grabbed a purple T-shirt, and I walked into class. I was just purple on purple. It was a lot. And one of those kids, he's probably 14, and it's still in my soul. He goes, wow, grape ape.
And I was like, well, I'll never wear the same matching pants and shirt again ever as long as I live because I'm shallow like that. And then I rolled in today and Kelly just rolls in like, I don't know if you know me, but my give a crap has been disassembled and sold on eBay for parts. The good news is, whereas you chose never to wear that again, I don't care what you think.
And I will, in fact, wear this again because it's extremely comfortable. What's that? These are my stretchy pants. Exactly. Well, hey, listen, this show is all about bravery and courage. And when you roll in like that, that is bravery and courage. I'm proud of you. Like, jumpsuits are in style, just FYI. There's literally nothing about what's going on back there in style. It's cool, though. It's cool.
I beg to differ. You're correct. And the people will back me. They will. Because they love you more than me. A little bit. I love them too. Well, there you go. Here's the shout out. Here's a vote for the adult onesie, America. The adult onesie. That's going to be the new John Deloney outfit. It's just going to be matchy matchy. It's going to be adult underoos. We're going to call them overoos. They're going to have a tie and elastic waist. They're going to be amazing. Ha ha ha.
Let's go get them. Love you guys.
