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Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. She said, I thought you'd be farther ahead than where you are right now. It completely broke. You are doing everything you can to be a 21st century evolved male. And that's vulnerability. You're experiencing what millions of modern men experience, which is women who do not want that from their men. And they beat them down for it. What up? What up? What up? This is John with Dr. John Deloney Show. Hope you're doing well wherever you happen to be listening to the show.
Hope you're with loved ones. Hope you're at home. Hope you're having some joy in your life. You're traveling. Hope you're doing well wherever it is you happen to be. On this show, we talk to real people who are going through hard stuff, man. Going through hard stuff, trying to figure out what to do next. And if you want to be on this show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. Or go to johndeloney.com slash ask. We're talking your mental health, your emotional health, your relationships, whatever you got going on in your life. Hey, Kelly. Yes?
I just got a sense of the... Is it just me? Can you be a little more clear? That's about as clear as I can be. Like just in your daily life? Just clear. Yeah. Is it like the end of summer heat or the chaos of the new school year? I think it's just this thymic. That's nerd speak. It's just this... It's like a big gray blanket that's just been laid upon everything. I think we call it the election. Maybe. Maybe.
Yeah, it's just like the water's not as good. It's just like, whatever. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, we've been dealing with some stuff in our family, so I... Yeah, you have actual real tragedies, and so I'm sure the little violin I'm playing right now. Yeah, most of the tragedies are just some... Real challenges. Challenges, yeah. Isn't that great? It's so sobering for a guy like me. I'm like, I just feel... Everything feels sad, and you're like, oh, wow, my kid's in the hospital, and you're like, all right, let's go out to the next caller. Yeah. No, I mean...
I feel like a guy that I don't like to be, which is kind of whiny, kind of complainy, kind of dramatic. All right, let's go out to Charlotte, North Carolina and talk to Michael. Hey, Michael, what's up? What's up, Dr. John? How you doing, man? I'm doing all right. I'm glad to talk to you. Kelly's been mean. So what's up?
Oh, yeah, man. Well, first, it's a pleasure to talk to you, man. And I listen to you guys all the time, sometimes eight, nine hours a day, man. So it's a complete pleasure, man. Dude, turn it off. Go be friends. That's too much. That's too much. So what's up? What's up? How can I help?
Well, man, I'm just going to be honest with you. I'm married now. But before marriage, I screwed up a lot. You know, as a man put my foot in my mouth a lot, you know, and I just screwed up a lot. And as a result, my then girlfriend would break up with me and I would, Hey, you know what? I'll just go to her. Hey, I'm sorry. Let's, let's work through this. Let's talk about it. And, and honestly, I,
uh, doing that over and over again, I felt like a sucker. And, um, now that we're married, they're scarring there. So I'm afraid that she's going to leave. I work for a job right now and I have my own company. And just recently, um, I don't, I don't have everything I need in place to, to really be, uh, consistent, um, uh, work consistently. But when I do work, it's,
pretty good, you know, and I made a substantial amount of money a few months ago. She knows that, you know, I had nothing for my wife. And so, um, we got into a spat and she said, um, well, after 13 years doing this, I've been in business for 13, been doing, uh, the other stuff for about 2025, most of my life. Um, she said, I thought you'd be far farther ahead than where you are right now. It completely broke, you know, and she, she knows where it needs to happen. And,
And so, especially when, Hey, I tell her how much I make, um, whenever I do it and it's pretty good, but it's not consistent, you know? So that's why I still work the other job. Honestly, man, I, to a point I don't trust her and I, you know, stuff like that. I just learned to really just be quiet, but that's hurting me because I can't be myself. I'm outgoing. I'm a goofball. What's, what's, what's underneath all this, man?
There's something underneath all this. What is it? I don't understand. Can I tell you what I think I'm hearing, but I want you to completely reject it if I'm wrong, okay? Yeah. Actually, you know what? Before I put it out there, tell me about your old man. Tell me about your dad. Honestly, I haven't talked to him in a year. Tell me about him growing up.
I was divorced. My parents got divorced. So my parents divorced at six. Yeah. Okay. And so six all the way through when you met the woman who's your girlfriend and then she became your wife. You said you screwed up a lot. What does that mean? Sometimes I will, let me think of a,
something quick. Um, something that I didn't like. I can't think on top of my head. Okay. Something I didn't like. I bring, I bring to her attention. Had it like this. I didn't like the way you said it. And her response would be something like, well, if you want to do this, I want to do that. You know what I mean? There's no, no cheating, nothing like that, dude. And, and honestly, I'm just going to be completely honest with you guys. Um,
I'm a Christian man. I am a man. I am not perfect. I'm just saying that. But, you know, there's sometimes there's other women coming across my path. Of course there is. And they're very kind. And I'm like, wow, I like this. I like this guy. I'm not saying that my wife is really mean. When I asked you what was underneath it all, now we're getting to it. Here's what I'm hearing. Okay. I hear a guy.
who's trying to do everything he can to be what i would call um and i'll get some heat for this this for saying it this way but this is just the first thing that pops into my head you are doing everything you can to be a 21st century evolved male which is
I'm going to work my job and provide for my family. I'm also going to try to create my own business. I'm going to hustle. I'm going to hustle. I'm going to hustle. I'm going to go year after year after year after year to make this thing work. And I'm going to do this modern thing, which has not been asked of men for most of human history, rightly or wrongly, it doesn't matter. It just hasn't been. And that's vulnerability. I'm going to tell my wife how I feel. Absolutely. Absolutely. And you're experiencing what millions of modern men experience, which is women who do not want that from their men.
And they beat them down for it. That makes sense. Except if you don't do it, they're going to hold you hostage. Exactly. For not ever speaking up. Why don't you ever tell me what's going on? What's in that big old head of yours and all that stuff? So you're trapped. That's exactly right. Absolutely. And then you go to work.
Yep. And some woman recognizes the kind of hardworking, kind, compassionate, and dare I say vulnerable man that you are. And she laughs at your jokes and now we're off to the races. And then suddenly you become a man that you never wanted to become. That's it. Am I onto it? Yes. Yes, you are better than how I explained it. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Here's my, here's my big first question. Do you already have somebody in mind?
Um, there's honestly, just call it, just call it what it is, man. You got somebody in mind already? Yeah, dude. Okay. Have you crossed a line yet? No, I have not. Okay. So what I would, and here's what I'm asking. I'm not asking you to shame you. I'm asking you to give my, give me some direction on the urgency. Yeah. So what I'm going to ask you, the same thing I would tell her if she called me, nobody, nobody, nobody,
makes you do the next thing. She's been blaming you for years for what she chooses to do, how she chooses to talk to you, treat you. You don't have that kind of power. You do a thing, you say a thing, and then she makes a choice on how to respond, how to come back, right? Absolutely, yeah. And I'm going to tell you the same thing. Do not let the current situation, and I'm telling you right now, it's exhausting and it's frustrating and it's heartbreaking, and you're tired of doing right because it's got you nothing.
Yeah, dude. And do not let the next thing you do be handing your dignity away because you're not that guy. Absolutely. You're not a man who cheats. Don't be that guy. Absolutely. Okay. You get to choose what happens next. My concern for your marriage is I think it's closer to the edge than you guys think it is. And anytime somebody gets in this situation, it can't be a
I say it can't be. It might, but I haven't seen it. It can't be this close to the edge where we kind of naturally, you know, next, right? There has to be, and I say this all the time on the show, somebody's got to flip the lights on, turn the dance music off. We are stopping this thing in its tracks. We're about to go over a cliff. For 13 years, I've been trying to do the best I can
And it's I'm not able to communicate with you in a way where I feel heard where I feel safe And if I come to you, I feel attacked So it's making me not want to come to you anymore and you deserve more than that I deserve more than that and if she can't hear it or she chooses not to hear it Then y'all need to address that underlying issue But you're about to become somebody that you're not is that fair? Absolutely, cuz I'm literally fighting myself. I know you are delete the number out of the phone and
delete your Instagram account and stop. Right now, stop. Okay. You're about to cross the line you can't come back from, man. Absolutely. And I want to sit with you, man. It hurts when you've been really working hard for 10 years at something and you finally have a win and the first thing out of the one person you're so desperate for her approval. She looks at you and goes, hmm. Right? God, that's a knife in your soul, right? It does, man. Yeah. You're not crazy and you're not a wimp and you're not some blue pill dude. Mm-hmm.
It just hurts. I wish that more women knew, more wives knew how much their men in their wonky, awful, not good ways are chasing three words or four words. I'm proud of you. All right? I'm proud of you. For all the wives and girlfriends listening to this, just try it. Go home. Grab your husband or your boyfriend.
Put your hand behind his neck to where your hand is on the back of his neck. Look him in the eye and just say, I need you to hear me say, I'm really proud of you. All the work you're putting in. Just try it. Watch what happens. It'll melt in front of you. But here's the deeper question, Michael, that I got to just hit you with, okay? Yeah. You're seeking external love and validation. And what this tells me is at the end of the day, you look in the mirror and whatever she said to you, you kind of had that same thought too. You're right.
Did you think you'd be further along 10 years ago when you started this side business? Honestly, I did. Yeah, absolutely, I did. Or maybe you didn't think you would, but you dreamt of it, right? I mean, honestly, I didn't think the money that, I didn't think I'd be making this much money with, you know, the jobs that I would do. That I didn't know. So you're actually ahead of where you thought you'd be?
I'm not because it's not consistent. And to do that, I have to take certain steps that I didn't take yet. Ah, gotcha. Okay. Procrastination on my part. Okay. If I didn't procrastinate, yes, I would. Well, is it procrastination or is it life has just been happening? You've been working a full-time job this whole other time too. That's true. Whose voice is that? Whose voice is that? Is that hers? Or is it your old man's? Is it your mom's? Whose voice is that? Somebody's telling you on a minute-by-minute basis that you are not where you should be.
Whose voice is that? Because it's a lie, dude. Do you have little ones? Do you have kids? No kids. No, sir. So you've been working a full-time job, being a husband, going to school, doing your thing, doing a side hustle? Yes, sir. Absolutely. I just turned 33, too. You're one man to another. I'm proud of you. I appreciate that. Good on you. Thank you.
And I'm going to ask you to do something that's going to sound so cheesy and lame. And I know you're done cheesy and lame in it, dude. You just want to go lift weights and get on TRT and just start fighting people and have a bunch of mindless sex. I know where you're at. Okay. Yes, sir. Absolutely. Exhale and be the guy that you want to be. Be the guy that you are.
Because that's every bit of a fantasy as what you thought would be. See what I'm saying? It's just a fantasy. It's not real. I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying. I want you to get yourself a small leather-bound journal. And every time you get one of those stories, it pops into your head. And some of it might come from your wife, and you have to address that. She's poisoning the water y'all share together. But it might be that you need to look her in the eye and say, and I had to do this with my wife.
I am chasing with all I have four words. I'm proud of you. And she had no idea. She thought she was telling me that she was proud of me by other, by making sure the household was running. And by also she had a full-time job. She thought she was showing me in all these other ways. And it's like, I got to hear those words. Right. And so it may be that you need to give her a clear roadmap to your heart. And it may be that you've given her that roadmap and she just wads it up with those in your face.
Whatever that is, you'll need to go talk to somebody, whether it's a marriage counselor. You got to sit down and be direct, but you got to have this conversation. I keep coming to you and I feel like I keep putting my hand in the bag and I keep getting bit by a rattlesnake and I'm getting to where I can't do anymore. But that has to be followed with, here's exactly what I need. Here's what I want. And by the way, I want to want you so bad.
But I want you to... I'm honestly, I'm sorry. I'm kind of afraid to say that because if I, you know, normally if I say something, I'm not saying all the time, you know, last few days it's been great hugging me and all that stuff. But then when it goes to crap, it goes to crap, you know? And so I'm concerned if I say this, that's kind of why I backed off because if I open my heart, be vulnerable, right?
She stomps on him. Yeah. And I'm like, well, if I say this, well, how come, you know, you can go somewhere else or something like that. I don't know, but I'm kind of like, how do I solve this? Well, here's what's about to happen. Your ultimate fear, and again, I'm fishing here. I can link these things artificially. Maybe they're connected. But either your mom or your dad left you when you were a kid.
And the woman you've chosen to spend the rest of your life with broke up with you for being vulnerable with her. Yeah, that's exactly right, man. However cheesy, as cheesy as it sounds, it wasn't cheesy to me. It's not cheesy, dude. Yeah, I know. It's not cheesy. Dude, it's easy to go take kickboxing classes. It's easy to go do sparring competitions. I've done those. It's real hard to look at somebody that you want so desperately to love you till the end of time and to say, this is my heart, you still love me.
That's way harder, man. Way harder. And every time you've done it, you got stomped on. Yeah. But here's the deal. Your big fear about this thing ending, you're about to end it prematurely to keep her from ending it, and your life's still going to end up in the same ash. That makes sense. You get what I'm saying? Oh, yeah. So the only path forward, and this sucks, it's heartbreaking, the only path forward is risk. Okay. And if you don't think she can hear you,
Or if she's proven to you over time, I can't hear you, I can't hear you, I can't hear you. Or I won't hear you. It's probably a better way to say that. Then you got to go get a marriage counselor and tell her. Our marriage is on the brink and I don't want to lose you. You're the most important thing to me. Will you come talk to somebody? And then you're going to have to come prepared. You're going to have to have written some stuff out.
Okay. I'll do that. Absolutely. We have seen the counselor before, but that was crazy because they both ganged up on me. Afterwards, I told my wife, I didn't like that. And this is why she says, I see that. So this go around, I will write the stuff down and talk about it and just find the right person. Yeah. And I think sometimes you go just to talk through, like everything's such a mess. It's like a fishing rod. Like the line is so tangled up. We don't even know where to start.
Absolutely. And sometimes it's very clear like, hey, I'm getting to the end where I'm about to end this relationship. Yeah. And I'm becoming, I don't want to do something, I don't want to choose, it doesn't happen automatically. I don't want to choose to do something to become somebody that I'm not. Absolutely. I'm a person who wants to share my heart with you and every time I do, you stomp on it. Absolutely. That's it. Do you think she could hear that or no, if you said it in that way?
She can. It's just, like you say, having to take the risk to do it and just do it. And I think it's being clear about when I say this and you respond with this, my body leaves in a vortex. Just gone. It leaves. And I want to stay present. When I say this, if you get uncomfortable with that, here's some things we can do. You're giving her an action plan.
Absolutely. And it's not sexy. It's not romantic. It's not like Hollywood lays it out, but sometimes saying, here's the best way. I need to be loved right now. And give her a chance to respond. And my guess is you're not perfect in this deal either, right? I mean, you said that early on. No, absolutely not. Nobody is, right? So she gets a chance too to say, okay, here's how you can love me when things get sideways and they get strong. And she might look at you and say, hey, I need you to find a couple of men that you can share your business concerns with.
Like I need you to get a couple of men that you don't work with that you meet with on a regular basis that you can say, Hey, I'm worried about the economy. I'm worried about this because I can't hold that in this house. And that's fair. That's a fair thing. Absolutely. A lot of guys are miserably lonely and we just dump everything on our wives and expect them to carry it on a can. Right, right, right, right. Yeah. Dude, I just want you to know you're not crazy, man. I really, I'm, I'm, I'm, it gives me hope.
To see men like you out there grinding, doing two jobs, trying to love the best you can and trying to take in all this new information. I want to be a different kind of guy than my dad was. I want to be a different kind of, whether my dad was good or whether my dad was not good. I want to try to do this thing right in this new world. I'm proud of you. Thank you. And I'm proud of you for not jumping off the cliff yet. I'm just going to ask you, don't do it, man. Don't become somebody that you're not. Is that fair? That's fair. Absolutely. All right. It's been one of my highest honors to talk to you today and just to listen to bravery.
Like I say, man, it's easy to shove somebody. It's easy to go lift weights and do like, yeah, that stuff's easy. I do it. It's hard to be honest and open and say, I'm trying, man. I keep getting stomped on. It's that next layer of here's what specifically that looks like. And I want you to carry around that journal and write down these stories. I should have been further along. I should be doing this more often. I should, I should, I should, I should write that down and challenge it. Who said that? Is this true?
And if you text somebody you're not married to and say, hey, let's meet up, and your body says, I shouldn't have done that. Look at that. Yep, that's actually true. You shouldn't have done that. But if it says, you should be doing this, you should be making more money, man, I've been working really hard. I'm doing good. I want it to be more consistent. I can do some steps here, but I'm also working a full-time job. You know what I'm doing? I'm doing all right. I'm doing good. Proud of you, man. Hang on the line. I'm going to send you my number one bestselling book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, and I want you and your wife to use that as a roadmap
to choose whatever happens next. I'm grateful for you, man. We'll be right back. It's time to talk about Organifi. All right, here's one of my main life goals. I want to be as healthy as possible for as long as possible. I want to be that old semi balding guy in the back of the mosh pit. And I also want to be that old guy dancing with his beautiful wife into my 80s. And I want to be able to roll around with my grandkids in some WWE style wrestling match into my 90s.
And that's why right now I exercise, I work on my friendships, and I try to eat and drink things that only have safe, high quality, high integrity ingredients. And this is why I love Organifi.
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Go to Organifi.com slash Deloney right now to save 20% off at checkout with code Deloney. That's Organifi, O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I dot com slash Deloney and code Deloney for 20% off. All right, we're back. Let's go out to Detroit Rock City and talk to Ryan. Hey, Ryan, what's up, man?
how's it going john just rocking onto the brick of dawn brother what are you doing oh i'll be nervous about this phone call but um i uh cannonball baby my um my ex-girlfriend just got diagnosed with cancer i'm sorry yeah and uh we dated from 2018 to like 2023 and then uh
We broke up for a little while and got back together for a few months and I, we kind of realized we just weren't a good fit. Um, but obviously I, you know, we, I still care a lot about her. Um, and then I started dating my current girlfriend in May and, um,
She does not like my ex-girlfriend. And since I found out about this diagnosis, I have not been able to speak with my ex about it, even though I really would like to, just because I feel, I don't know. How long have you been dating this new person? Since May. I just tell you, man, that doesn't sit well with me. Yeah. Or I'll just tell you this. I mean, I've been married to the same person for 21 years. And...
A former girlfriend of mine's had a horrific tragedy in her life. I mean, I just picked up the phone and check in. I mean, I just feel humane. Yeah.
Is there something, did you cheat on this new girlfriend? I mean, is it just her jealousy? What is it? Because it just feels cruel and inhumane. It's just an act of citizenship. You know what I mean? Yeah. Early on in my current relationship, she saw a text message on my phone that said, you know, my ex-girlfriend's name, and
who I had said we had, we, I'd stopped talking to cause we pretty much had at that point, but I happened to get a text and, um, she saw that and she like said, don't talk to her. And she went through a bunch of our old text messages later on and saw stuff in there that she didn't want to see that, um, that she felt like I should have, you know, just deleted all of her old texts and stuff like that. Um, and,
Once we started dating. She's probably right. I mean, I'm thinking now, I've been married to the same person forever, for almost a quarter century now. And I know, like personally, a couple of my wife's old boyfriends back from college. And if something tragic happened to either of them, I would hope my wife is the kind of person that would call and check in and make sure everybody's okay. Yeah.
I don't know, but also I don't, I wouldn't want to see old text threads still, you know what I'm saying? So I think there's some both and here. Do you mind if I do something weird? Can I bring Kelly on? I want to get her opinion on this. Okay, sure. Kelly, will you weigh in on this? I will. You're like, dang right. Well, we were just talking about it in here because I had a
Kind of somewhat similar situation. Okay. So I was married previously. And when my ex-father-in-law died, my husband was like, you have to go to the funeral. Okay. So I didn't want to bring up your dating past. It's extensive, Ryan. Seriously. It's extensive. Ryan, it's not. It's not. But...
Yeah, if one of your exes, is that... Yeah. It just feels like... Or if Robert had an ex, like, and something happened... Yeah. Like, to her family, it'd be like, I would expect you to call. Right. And when... So when my mother died last year, my ex sent flowers. He wasn't able to come, and he contacted me and sent flowers. Yeah. And then when his... So it was many, many years ago when his dad died, and his wife called me and said, hey, if you need a place to stay...
while you're here, you can stay with us. That's even more awesome. That was a little close. Oh, yeah. I didn't. She played a lot of jazz music when she made that call. Because we were adults. Yeah. And it was when I was diagnosed with breast cancer, my ex-husband reached out. I'm so sorry to hear this. Is there anything we can do? Because we're adults. Yeah, Ryan, for me, here's the thing. If you cheated on her, I get it's either scorched earth or it's me. I get that. I wouldn't love it, but I get it.
Um, the other side of it is dude, somebody you spent, how old are you right now? I'm 25. Okay. Someone you spent, what is that? 20% of your life with five years. I mean, geez Louise, do you call and check out and say, I'm so sorry this is happening. Hope you're doing okay. It's like, you're going to run down and spend the weekend with her. Right. But there's just a humanity to it. And so, um, here's the bigger red flag for me.
is that you have something that is deeply important to you and you use the words, I'm not allowed. I'm just looking a year into the future of this relationship and I'm not allowed to take this job. I'm not allowed to drive this kind of car. I'm not allowed to send my kid to this school. I don't like that kind of language because she's not your mom. She's your girlfriend. She's a co-creator of a romantic relationship.
Yeah, I think I'm... I kind of feel like when I asked her about it, the conversation didn't feel too much like she was totally telling me no, but she was setting a boundary, letting me know that...
Yeah, you know, bro, you know, like I do. Like, if you think that's a good idea, just go ahead then. Like, that's no, that's no, we know that. I mean, she was telling you no. Yeah, yeah, essentially, I guess, yeah. I would have the deeper conversation. I wouldn't want to use this as some sort of proxy war. No, no, no. The deeper conversation is this. You're dating me, and this other woman that I dated for five years is a part of me.
I shared intimate moments. We shared laughter. We shared fun. We shared, like, I went home with butterflies in my stomach. She, we dated a long time. And if you're going to date me now, you know that that's a part of it. Yeah. She didn't have to like it. She didn't have to imagine it. Didn't want to, like, be like, all right. Like, no, of course not. I don't, you know what I mean? Like, I don't want to think all that. But it is. It's true.
It's the same on the show when people call and say like, hey, I am dating somebody who has two kids and I don't like them. It's like, well, you chose to date that person. So part of them is their ex. A part of them is their kids. That's what you're signing up for. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And so part of that is what I would consider human decency, which is if someone you've spent 20% of your life with gets sick, gets cancer, you call and say, man, I hope you're doing okay. Mm-hmm.
That's just my take. I mean, but I think the deeper question is the sense that I'm in a relationship that is very parent-child. I think I'm bad at... You know, I've made mistakes in previous relationships, and I think I don't trust my judgment all the time. There you go. You know, I...
And I really like my new girlfriend a lot. She's great. Anytime a guy goes, no, no, no, no, she's great, man. I mean, she is. She's way out of my league. The whole works. But I just don't want to... If you want to outsource your sense of what you believe is right and wrong to somebody else, you're free to do that.
I want to be with somebody who, A, has an opinion, a very strong opinion, and who also doesn't like things. I get that your new girlfriend does not like that you have these memories with somebody that you were with. I heard it once say, somebody said, I remember laughing with somebody who was moaning about, was whining about somebody's ex-girlfriend. I mean, I'm talking like two decades before.
And I was like, what are you talking about? You won. You're married. Like, you won. It was two decades ago. And they said this. She will always have known him longer than I will. And I was like, I can see that. I never thought of it. Like, she'll always have... She'll always know middle school him or high school him or college him, and I will. And I get that. And also, I want to be with somebody that trusts me to do the next humane, right, like, just...
conscionable thing, which is just check in on people that we know. So I've been, you know, going back and forth in my head trying to figure out, because I feel like it's not
checking in. It's been a constant thing. I'm super anxious for her. She's been eating away at me, kind of. Is it her or is it because you have found yourself in a situation where you can't be who you truly are? Because anxiety often comes from the lack of autonomy. The fact that you can't pick up the phone and reach out to somebody that you have a significant history with will set your body's alarms off.
Or maybe you're finding out, you know what? Good God, I still love her. I don't know what I'm doing. Made a terrible mistake. You know, maybe that's where the part of why I'm stuck on it too. It's not that I don't love her romantically, but like family, you know? Yeah, you care about her. Yeah. You're not crazy. There's nothing wrong with you. I guess I feel kind of like guilty about that. No, don't feel guilty about it. It makes you human, dude. It makes you human.
But here's what I would suggest. I would suggest some sort of conversation with your current girlfriend that goes like this. I've thought about it hard and a long time, and I really respect your boundaries and your unease. I get it. I get it. I feel a lack of humanity and decency by not reaching out to somebody that I spent so much time with. It just feels wrong. I've got to make this call. I've got to check in and see how she's doing and what kind of cancer it is.
I would love it if you would be in the room with me just to hear that nothing crazy is going on. There's nothing wild and wooly and all that kind of stuff. I'd love it if you were here because I want to be the kind of guy that you date that respects your boundaries, but also want to be the kind of guy for you that doesn't turn a blind eye towards just kindness and like basic foundational humanity just because there's weird things in the past.
And if she looks at you and says, if you make that call, we're over, I think that's sending you a message about the future of your relationship. And by the way, she gets to do that. That's her right. Yeah. But I'm telling you, this will not be the only time that she looks at you and says, you are not allowed to do X, Y, or Z. This will be the foundation of your relationship. This will be how y'all move forward. You think she's out of your league. You don't think you should be in the same room with her. And you are, so you're going to subject yourself to whatever she tells you to do. And that's not the foundation for a relationship. Y'all have to co-build something. Yeah.
Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. Do you feel trapped? Not necessarily. I feel, I guess, kind of. Let me tell you this. Whenever you got to make a hard decision, don't become somebody that you don't respect. So don't go behind your girlfriend's back, even though that conversation will be hard. Don't sneak. And from what I'm hearing, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but don't not call because that's not who you are either.
And if you're confused, if you think I still love this person and I kind of want to get back together with this person, then be honest with who you're dating now. Don't lose your integrity and your dignity in this process. Yeah. And you're not crazy for still caring about the health and safety of somebody that you used to date, even though you're in a new relationship. You're not nuts. That bond was real. That connection was real. Those memories and those experiences together are real. And they don't just go away because you're dating somebody new. Yeah.
Yeah. You're not a bad guy. Like you're a good guy. It sounds, I don't know. It always sounds different in my head when you say it, it sounds kind of obvious. I guess it's just a conversation that I'm just worried it's going to suck, but there's no, there's no path. It's not challenging moving forward. You just get to pick which challenging path, the path where you become somebody you don't want to be in order to please some girl that you think is out of your league.
Or the challenging path where you sit down and you hold a line and say, here's the kind of guy you're dating. I'm the kind of guy that checks on hurting people, even if I have a romantic past with them. And I think that's who you'd want to be dating anyway. Not somebody who pretends the last five years of my life didn't happen. You're right. I don't want to date somebody like that. I don't want to be married to somebody like that.
I don't want to be married to somebody that's lying to me about text messages and keeping text threads and old romance. I don't want to be with that person either. You know what I mean? Here's what I want you to do. I want you to get this stuff out of your head. Write it on a piece of paper. Write it down. Okay? And don't use a computer. Don't use your phone. Use a piece of paper and a pen. Okay? Write this stuff down. Get it out of your head. Get it onto a piece of paper so you can look at it objectively. Say, what do I actually believe here? What do I actually feel here?
And you said it, and I love how aware you are. You're learning to trust Ryan again. You've done some dumb things in relationships. We all have. You've been somebody that you don't want to be in the past. We all have. You're learning to trust yourself again. Write that stuff down and look at it. Hold firm. And then however, whatever challenges lie ahead, which there's not a non-challenging path, don't lose sight of who you are in the process. Don't become somebody that you don't want to be. Thanks for the call, brother. It was a sticky one, man. It's a tricky one.
And I appreciate you letting me think it out. Kelly, thanks for hopping in here. Best of luck to you, brother. Let me know how it goes. I'm interested to know how it goes. And if your girlfriend wants to call and be on the show, I'd love to have her. It'd be great. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest,
A lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life, and it's the worst thing.
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Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Diloni to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Diloni. All right, we are back and I just need to say a few things. I typed this out and so I'm going to read it. I don't want to be overly dramatic, but here we go. So we're surrounded right now.
The air we breathe, the water we drink, surrounded by hate and contempt and anger and rage and outrage and this prevailing sense of hopelessness. I think we're out of hope. And as me being honest, I haven't been doing well lately. I'm frustrated with people. I'm exhausted. I'm getting criticism from all sides of my life. Just, man, she's Louise. School's back in swing. I just went to a funeral of an amazing woman. It was Patsy, just an extraordinary woman.
My parents are getting older, and then there's always the AIs coming to national debt and politics and war and all of it. All of it. And it's just hard to see hope. And then Kelly, yesterday she showed me this interview with this great songwriter, Nick Cave. And I think, Kelly, is this right? He lost two sons to suicide in the last few years? I think it was, I think maybe one was suicide and one was drugs or some form of. But he's had two massive treads. He's lost both of his sons in the last few years.
Okay, so yeah, he's been through hell the past few years. And if you know anything about Nick Cave, his music and his writing, he's always been an angsty, like fight the man, burn it all down kind of singer and songwriter and performer. Somebody you listen to like when you're in angst mode and you're like, yeah. And Kelly sent me this interview and it's just so beautiful. In the ashes of everything that he loves and holds dear, here's what he writes. He writes, much of my early life was spent holding the world and the people in it in contempt. And it was a position both seductive and indulgent.
The truth is I was young and I had no idea what was coming down the line. And it took a devastation to teach me the preciousness of life and the essential goodness of people. And it took a devastation to reveal the precariousness of the world, of its very soul, and to understand that the world was crying out for help. And it took a devastation to understand the idea of moral value. And it took a devastation to find hope.
And unlike cynicism, hopefulness is hard earned. It makes demands upon us and can often feel like the most indefensible and lonely place on earth. He continued. Hopefulness is not a neutral position. It's adversarial. It's the warrior emotion that can lay waste to cynicism. Each redemptive or loving act as small as you like, such as reading to your little boy, showing him something you love, singing him a song,
or putting on his shoes keeps the devil down in a hole. Getting choked up. That's Nick Cave. And so I think I've mentioned this years ago on the show, but someone who I just as a profound spiritual mentor of mine, a friend, he's both a bioethics professor, retired now, and a monk. He would finish the school semester and he would head to a monastery until school started again. He once told me, he said, sarcasm and pessimism.
This idea that it's all coming down and everyone's out to get everybody. It so often presents as wisdom. It presents as wisdom. Sarcasm and pessimism feels like the smart thing in the room. And optimism and joy feels like insanity. It feels like you're all crazy.
And man, that has never before has been a time like right now. And I feel so true. If you walk into a room like Nick Cave says, and you're just like, hey, you know what? I think things might turn out okay. It's just, there's just grenades of, oh yeah, well, are you serious? And what about this? And oh my gosh, oh my gosh. And this is what, you're just bombarded by sarcasm and pessimism. And here's my thoughts, man. Optimism and joy, they're hard. They're challenging. Hope is a middle finger to this age.
Marriage is an act of rebellion. You and me, we're taking on the world. Love and small acts of kindness are grenades and mocking laughter in the face of rage, anger, and all of this outrage and contempt. It used to be that rebellion got you killed. Like you rebelled and they put you down. And now rebellion gets you likes. It gets you attaboys. Rebellion is the new, whoo, look how edgy and cool.
Learning, changing your mind, kindness, vulnerability, just shutting up and grabbing a broom or a vacuum or silence followed by gently holding someone's hand or maybe even a hug. Those are seen as weakness, as blue pills, as cowardice, as less than. So as for me and my house, we're taking the hard path. And in this age, the hard path is kindness. The hard path is no more blaming, no more complaining, no more whining.
The economy is what the economy is. What am I going to do about it? My childhood was what my childhood was. So what am I going to do now? My kids' struggles are my kids' struggles. What is my next right move? Hatred is what hatred is. Now, who am I going to be out in the world? And on and on and on. So here's my call. All of us can choose the next thing.
Choose optimism. Choose the idea that however bleak things look, it could turn out differently. It could turn out awesome. And what role can you play in that? Choose joy. That doesn't mean happy. It means right. Choose the highest act of rebellion, hope, and then be a part of turning on lights in darkness everywhere. And then see it out in your life in a million tiny ways.
We don't remember who won all the wars. We don't. We know the big ones, but we don't remember them all. But we remember Gandhi. We remember Jesus. Most of you remember your grandmother. We remember that teacher who always made us feel safe. Remember that coach who called us to be something greater than we ever imagined. We remember those little moments because he changed everything. And so I'm calling for us for outrage to be over. I'm sick of it. I'm tired of it. I'm calling for a new rebellion. That's a rebellion of hope. A million tiny little ways.
Join me and choose the hard path. Choose hope. Choose optimism. Choose joy. And choose to do the next small right thing. We'll be right back. All right, we are back. All right, we're going to go around the room. What's one of a million tiny little things that each one of you are going to do? We'll start with you, Nate Dogg. I think it's the...
in the season of life I'm in right now of recently being divorced and all that stuff and choosing joy in situations that are hard, either like on the weekends when I have my kids and it's just me, choosing to embrace joy with them. Mm-hmm.
um, in defiance of the hard situation of needing to move and all these life changes and things like that. It's choosing the opposite of that situation. That's beautiful. Kelly, this is hard. Yeah. I mean, what's one little thing you're going to do? Um,
In the past few weeks, I have gone to a couple concerts with coworkers, friends, but they were work friends for the most part, but that I've gotten to know. We've gone out, we have danced, and had more fun and learned about each other. And I found that that has just, it's made me more... Before, they were just people I worked with. And now they're human beings who might think differently than I do or have different views on things. And so...
I it's made me want to get to know people that I have called friends, you know, quote unquote friends because I see them every day, but get to know people more and to know their stories and where they come from. Not so that I can battle it or I can say, well, here's what you should think. But just because the people, I mean, I'm surrounded with 1100 people here and I don't know most of them. Yeah. So once a month. I like that idea. Okay. Yeah. There's only one Creed concert though.
But I've been to a couple others, too. I mean, there's been a couple others. I went to see The Strike. I'm going to see Nicotine Dolls coming up. Did Creed take you higher? Oh, my God. It was so good. Joe, what do you think, brother? Well... You've had a tough year, man. Yeah. I'm along with Nate. My wife passed away last year, and we were together for 33 years. And I am relearning everything. Yeah. Everything from relationships with family, friends...
Exes that I haven't spoken with, like one of our callers. Yeah, I'm taking it all in, and it's changing my life. Yeah, or life changed you, and then you get to choose what happens. What's one little thing? How can you put some light in that darkness? Forge new friendships. There you go. That seems to be...
illuminating my life right now. Yeah, other people. Good on you, brother. Keeping me out of the darkness. Because it seems like the easiest thing would just be to go home and... Oh, yeah. Just turn the TV on and put your feet up and just call it yet another day, right? But the Lord is saying, no, you can't do that. You got to grow. Let's go find light. Yeah. Let's go be light. That's awesome. Team Money? I'm kind of a mix of everyone. So I'm trying to...
Not just couch rot is what I'm calling it. That's what I do normally. And even one of my best friends, I called her the other day and she was like, I challenge you. Next time I call you, you better sign up to go to some group at church. You need to meet people. You're not doing anything. So I'm working on making friends. Amazing. Well, I'm honored to work with you guys. Blessings. Love you guys. And I would tell y'all to not do drugs, but there's a line that Kelly won't cross.
But you have cut back on the tattoos, which I think is amazing. Put them back. Hey, everybody. Go shine some light somewhere. See you soon.
