EPISODE 12: Jeffrey Steele on Family Influence, Songwriting Triumphs, and the Evolution of Country Music 01:04:52

One story that people don't know about what hurts the most is that there was a song I wrote about my dad after he passed away. He goes, kid, never do it for the money. And then he gets into a limo. I didn't have a title for it, but I made it up at the very end. I sang, that's what I'm doing these days. That'll be the title. I sang and I said, this song sucks. I'm going to read a quote. I'm going to read a quote. Yeah, we're rolling right now. And I'm going to read a quote from...

Our guest tonight. This is his answer. No, I did actually see the video first sent to me by my friend at Breitbart News. All I can say, Neil, is M-effing Waylon Jennings M-effer. M-effing Johnny Cash M-effer. They would have cut this song in two seconds. Merle Haggard would have cut the song. The funny thing is, it's not racist at all. It just messes up their narrative.

That was a quote, a text I got from one of about five people that responded to Try That in a Small Town when it came out. Our guest tonight, the one and only Jeffrey Steele. The man. Here he is. I remember that. I remember that. I love that. And I was so lit up. I was so lit up when I first heard it. And I...

First thing I did, what did I say to you? I said, I got to get Kelly's number. Give me Kelly's number. I don't have it. And I got to start shooting text off here. And everybody I knew, I started, I said, have you heard this song? Have you heard this song? And it's, well, you know me, like this is something that's, as I look around, you know, I'm a product of early 70s California music.

Ronald Reagan governor and... You're supposed to be a lib. I'm supposed to be a lib. I grew up right in the middle of it. And my dad was a machinist. He was a metal cutter. That's where my name comes from, Steele. It's not my real name. It's a fake name. But it's in honor of my dad. And I just remember when my dad... It was a small sweatshop. There were three or four guys working in it. One was me, one was my brother, and a couple other guys. And when Carter was the president...

We nearly went out of business. And so that was my first foray into politics and what governments and, you know, agendas do to the common man.

So all that flash forward 500 years to now, and hearing that song, it just is like. Yeah, but you led the way. You led the way with Aaron Lewis. You rocked the boat first. We tipped it the other way, but you rocked it first. Well, yeah, and like Neil was saying, like for me, I think I got maybe two texts from close friends. And Jeffrey, we've known each other forever, but haven't written. Hadn't been in the same circles and everything, but I get a text saying,

you know, from Jeffrey still a legend, you know, and haven't, haven't hits when, when I came to town, we're very close to, to same age and everything. And he says, uh, says, Hey Kelly, it's Jeffrey still got your number from Neil. I just had to text you and say, what a great mother. Oh, uh,

He threw that word around a lot that day. Yeah, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, love it. He goes, Johnny Cash, Merle Haggard, Waylon Jennings, it's all I got to say. You know, and then he goes the next one. I give him a lot of love back, you know, and he says, man, appreciate that. Haggard would cut it and I would put it up there with Ogie from Muskogee, fight inside of me and the good times are really over for good. And I was like, from Jeffrey Steele. So at that point, I didn't care. There you go.

I didn't care where the text I got from you. So thank you in person for sending that to give me a jolt. I'm just telling you the truth. I mean, it just, it shook me when I heard it. It just shook me. Your song did the same to me. Well, thanks. And that's, you know, I've been kind of, I've been kind of,

Going down that road, well, ever since the beginning of my career, really, my first song was during the Gulf War in 91. I had a song with a group called Boy Howdy called When Johnny Comes Marching Home Again. That was actually our first single I wrote during that conflict. I kind of rewrote the traditional old song and started to get airplane. That's how I got a record deal. And that's kind of what brought me to Nashville back in the late 80s, early 90s with that band.

of course they released the song and the war ended like three days later. Dang it. Dang it. The war ended. Babe, we're not going to be able to pay for our rent next month because the war ended. Peace destroyed his career. Once again. But you know, that's kind of how I got started. And, and you know, that's just like me. We've been writing the same themes for our whole career. Uh,

My dad was a paratrooper, World War II, and he left a huge impression on me. And it's a thread in all of my songs. And so when people in the industry were saying, Jeff, what's up? Like, what are you so angry about? You know, you're cussing in that, am I the only one song? I said, well, that's mostly Aaron. But I said, it's the same song I've been writing for 40 years. Yeah. Yeah.

right i mean yeah it's a little edgier and the times make it a little edgier but but it's the same song oh definitely yeah so i don't know you're talking about moving the needle that sucker that needle was down here rusting nobody was cutting that stuff and that needle was just sitting down here waiting and y'all did it it was like yeah well and then aldine had the balls to put it out and it was just

We go, which was so cool. And you know, I, you know, the, we got to the bridge of, uh, and the song, am I the only one in the line is, um, am I the only one who quit singing along every time they play a Springsteen song?

And Aaron goes, man, I can't sing this. It was perfect. I said, if you don't say if you back out now, man, because the whole time we were writing it, he's like, man, man, my fans are going to freak out. This is exactly what they want to hear. Oh, my God. You know? And so we got to that line. I don't know if I can sing that. I said, oh, too late, man. You already committed. You have to talk him into singing that line. And even the song. He at first he was.

And understandably, you know, everybody's got buses rolling down the road and they've got employees and they've got trucks. And you get it because the narrative is so strong. But I just kept saying and I wrote, you know, Ira Dean was in on that with us, too. And I kept telling Ira because Ira was out there opening his shows. I said, man, just keep just keep letting him know he's going to be the first one. He's going to be the first one. He's going to be the first one that ever did it.

And I just keep telling him that keep telling him. And so finally he goes, I'm putting it out. I'm putting it out. And, and, and of course, you know, he was, uh, he's on, um, you know, with Borchetta over it. We didn't know if they were going to put, let him put it out or not, but, but you know, cooler heads prevailed. So I would love to know how that went down with the label. Well, it's tough. We, we talked about it. We talked about this a lot.

Writing it is fun and it's one thing to write it and it's another thing in this climate and with the labels that generally are so left, they all are, to have the stones to put it out. And that's like Aaron and Aldine, like those guys. That's where you separate it. And now a bunch of artists wish they'd

Yeah. Oh, yeah. A lot of them are thinking it and everybody wants to jump on the bandwagon after, but you're right though. When you're, we talked about this last week, like when you're dealing with employees and you're, you're rolling a tour down the road and you, it's a tough thing that you're going to take some hits. Yeah. And, and,

But kudos to those guys. Yeah, I agree. And it is like, it is a game changer if you, if you put it out there and it takes the right one. Yeah. Do it. And, and, and, and then you start thinking about why are, why are we at that place anyway? In country music. I mean, yeah, we've had that discussion a lot. It's like the demographic. You would think that you're just speaking to your people, right? Yeah. But everybody seems to be afraid. And we've talked about this a lot. It's like,

How do these artists not get that? These are the people that you should be saying this to and be excited to spread that message to. Exactly. I agree. Back up a little bit because this is fascinating to me. You're from like LA, Burbank, right? So from what I know, you started cutting your teeth on the strip, Sunset Strip there. And at that time, I mean, that's where...

everybody wanted to be. I mean, you had bands, I'm sure like Van Halen coming through at that time. That's where all these big rock bands were making their mark. You were a part of that scene. You were down there, uh,

And yet you kind of veered and chose the more country, you know, with. Yeah, it's a hilarious story. I tell it all the time. But yeah, that era and my brother, I have two older brothers. One's passed away now, but my oldest brother grew up in the right in the middle of the 60s and he was a guitar player. So it was all just falling on me.

Here I was in the middle of the best place you could really be in the music scene in that era. 100%. Yeah, my dad would take me to this talent show at a club called the Palomino, which was the only country gig in town. If you were a national act. In Hollywood, right? Yeah, it was North Hollywood. Yeah. That was your stop.

And it was just a, it was a seedy club and they had a talent show there. And my dad would take me down because his machine shop was right around the corner. I'd go down on Thursday night and I'd, I'd win, I'd win the talent show and get a hundred bucks. After the third time I won, they started giving me a hamburger. So my dad wouldn't take me there. He goes, we're going to find another bar to take you to. But as I got older, I'm playing, I'm playing on the strip.

and like you know i got a kimono on and a top hat spandex pants tell me there's pictures there's pictures it's we gotta get those i don't know we're getting those it's horrifying but i don't know it's i don't know if the 90s pictures are worse with the

But so I'm playing in these cover bands and we were, we were opening like same places Van Halen was playing and, and like, cause already he's on the strip and the ice house in Pasadena, like mid late seventies. And, and just before their record came out, I'll just never forget seeing them and, and seeing, seeing Eddie would, would take a solo and he'd stomp his boxes. And then he turned around. Yeah. He could see what he was doing. Right.

See some. Yeah, he didn't want anybody to see what was going on. Oh, wow. He was doing that thing, the finger tap thing. I mean, that was unheard of back then. Yeah, yeah. And so I was in that. I got so many crazy stories. But, like, I saw the police when they first came to Hollywood. They were in a brown van. Oh, my gosh.

that's amazing you talking tully's language now yeah well i mean i mean i mean the next day i had a three-piece a reggae band i was in a three-piece yeah do you know what i mean like i was so taken in uh we follow there's a place called barney's beanery it's like a it's like a it's like a high class i guess or a uptown version of denny's off of the sunset stream where all the musicians would go after gigs like late at night

So, you know, we were like all 17, 18 years old. And so we followed him over. We followed him over to Barney's Beanery, you know. But that's so interesting to me because like I said, you're entrenched in that scene. And it's so, you know, like you said, it made you want to start a reggae band. So...

It was so overwhelming, the music. It was everywhere. You see the Eagles, you see Ronstadt. If you were the Palomino, like I played the house band there for about seven years with Buddy Miller and Billy Block and Cary Park, who was in my band, Boy Howdy, and all kinds of amazing musicians would come in there on a given night, whether it was Eddie Van Halen or Rodney Crowell or Mick Fleetwood. They would just come and sit in or what's his name? I remember the, what was the Rockabilly band? Rockabilly.

Straight cats. Brian Setzer. Brian Setzer. Would come in and play because it was a real kind of rockabilly night sort of thing. But so all of that was evolving around me. And my dad was just beating me over the head to listen to country and listen to Merle Haggard. And I was just into all this rock and roll and rock.

And then this moment came like in the eighties where, you know, it was, I was hanging around guys like Brett Michaels and Duff McKay. Oh my God. All those bands. They were kids. And they were kids. And, and I, I stumbled on with some musician friends to this,

kind of music scene out there with Dwight Yoakam and Los Lobos. Yeah, I was going to ask you about that. Did that Bakersfield thing with Dwight and Buck, did you run it? Yeah, it sealed the deal. Was Pete Anderson... Pete was in a blues band and then he joined Dwight and...

That was, that was, that was some of my favorite. It was amazing. You're out there. Is that what sparked your interest to think about moving to Nashville? No, I mean, I was just out there and it was a really valid country music scene. Cause you know, like you had, you had Dwight out there, some roots bands like Los Lobos and other bands that were, and Lucinda was out there at the time. Yeah. And, and, and buddy Miller was out there. We were in bands together and it was just an amazing scene. Um,

So the crazy thing was I did a barn dance, which is this house band thing I played in at the Palomino in the house band. And Tony Brown came in one night with Patti Loveless. And we were like the opening act for her showcase. So he heard a song of mine. He heard this song of mine and he...

And he took the Palomino, had this really weird backstage. It was nowhere near the stage. Everybody hated playing there. Marty Robbins even cut a door in the back of the club so he could get out. It was called the Marty Robbins door. But anyway, so I was in the back and we'd just finished a set and Patty was getting to go up and, you know, little Tony came back and he's like, he's like, Hey, what's your name? I said, Jeffrey Steele. He goes, what's that third song he played?

and I told him the title was where fools are Kings. And, and he goes, I'm going to cut that song. And I didn't even know what that word meant. I didn't know what cut meant. What are you talking about? Yeah.

You can cut it out of a set. What are we doing, man? That's amazing. I'll cut you right back. And then he ended up, he said he was going to cut it on Patty, and that was my first lie in the music business that I was told. He ended up cutting it on Steve Warner, which is still a great cut. Yeah. But that's what...

brought me back the first time in 87 to nashville to showcase or 88 so that was the boy howdy evolution yeah it was pre-boy howdy but okay but i was in boy howdy like i played in all these cover bands trying to make 50 bucks yeah you guys know you're like you're playing bands and i was playing in like eight different bands boy howdy was one of them okay right and um

that was just a project that i'd done and and uh and and written the song and then tony heard it and so that i went back and did a showcase in 88 and they they chased me out well they tried that for us too i thought it was cool what a great scene though because i always loved that um

That Dwight Yoakam stuff that B. Anderson did. Those records had such a sound to them. Where is that going? It's... Where is that going?

Where are those artists? Bring it back. He's still out doing it. Where's Dwight Yoakam and John Anderson? Dwight's out there. He's doing it. Well, they're still out there. No, I'm not talking about them literally. I'm talking about the next generation of those guys, the unique people. Well, you just got to hope they're coming. You know, I think it's just –

I always tell people too, that, you know, it's, it's so generational, like, like, you know, the times that when we came up and we came to town and the stuff that we grew up on and how that kind of really influenced the sound of the music and the, and then the generations go by, you know, five, you know, even five to 10 years and the next group of songwriters come up that have been influenced by 10 years later music. And you know what I mean? It just keeps kind of evolving. You see it now it's, it's very, you know, rap and,

you know, metal kind of pop metal influence now. And some of it's really, really good. It is a great, some of it's really, really bad, but a lot of it's really, really good. I'm a, I'm a fan. I've learned how to evolve over the years. A tick. But getting to like, when you think of like Jason or, or, you know, or Aaron, there's, there's only a handful of guys, but, but, but when you bring that up to me, it's like, I think about the caches and, and, uh, Haggard's and, and, and, and, and Waylon and,

Even Chris and even those guys that were more on the liberal side of politics, they had a they had a they had a thought in their head. Well, and they had a clear thought about what they believed in. Like now there's no clear thought. And and I mean, there's really well, there is not somebody would sit me down and convert me.

Yeah, it's fair. I know exactly what you're saying. Explain it. Explain this vision of the new world to me. Explain it to me. And I'll jump on if it really looks. But I have not yet met anybody who can get past Trump bad.

Right. I know. Me either. Whether you're for him or not, I mean, right. Trump battle. Well, you've got to have a little more than that. I know. That's the problem, though. That's the problem. It's like, we talk about it a lot. Are we getting political? I love it. This is badass. Well, I don't know. If you want to go, we can go back and forth. It's a simple thing, though. Like, I think for most people, though, it comes down to,

What's my family going to be better? Is my family going to be safer? Are we going to do better financially? Yeah. And I think people like, you may not like Trump, you know, a lot of people hate him, whatever, but is your family better off? Are you safer? Like vote for the policy that you're not going to be friends with the president anyway. Like, like who's, what's going to benefit you the most you're in safety and the economy. And can you go afford dinner to take your family out? So I think that, uh, hopefully, uh,

People vote that way. Well, I think I was better off before. Yeah, and if you look at economies, I mean, if people have money in their pocket that they can save or spend as they so desire, the economy flourishes. It's pretty simple. It's just that simple. It really is. It's just that simple. And if you think about it too, like we're being taxed on everything.

We're being taxed on working. We're being taxed on buying things, selling things, owning things, dying. Yeah. Being born. I mean, it's pretty crazy. It's pretty crazy when you look at that whole picture. Yeah, and two, you spend more when you feel safe. So if you have more money in your pocket and you feel safe,

then you just spend more of the economy. It just goes in a circle and it just, it just feels less safe nowadays. Just does just because of what's happening. Absolutely. Not get on that whole thing. You know, currently we've only got what? Three hours. But also, I'm sorry.

No, go ahead. You guys are in trouble. For the listeners out there, when you talked about a cut and sometimes we'll get a, you know, an email or something that says, Hey, y'all mentioned this. It's a music business term. So what Jeffrey was referring to getting a cut or his song was going to get cut. That's back when it was vinyl and the records and there was a cut, you know, an actual groove. Yeah.

You got your song cut on a record. It's just called a cut. And even, you know, now we don't even have CDs, but we still call them cut. Hey, you got a cut today. We got a stream. We got a stream. We got a stream. Or when we say work tape. We're making a work tape. Those words will never come out of my mouth. Ever. Yeah. You got a stream. Hey, we got a stream today. I had a publisher one time tell me, hey, man, you had 100,000 streams this week. And I'm like, and they were celebrating. I'm going, let me see.

I made $23 this week. Thanks for letting me know. You made $23? That's a lot of streams. Somebody knows that math, and I forget what it is. How many streams equal a dollar, but I try not to remember it. We don't need to think about it. It's a scary time to be a songwriter. It really is. We came up in a golden era.

The last of the physical sales and ownership. I mean, now you're just going to get subscriptions and you're not going to own anything. And if you don't pay your monthly subscription, you don't get your music anymore. So you don't get to own it. You don't get to hold it. And I think, and I know I'm nostalgic to that because I'm older, but...

We were very fortunate. I miss that. Yeah, we were at a good spot. It was a tail end of all of it, really. Yeah, and when you explain it to the new riders in town, the new young guys that come to town, and you explain to them the mechanicals that we made back in the early 2000s, the first decade and a half of the 2000s, you tell them about the money we made on mechanicals.

They're blown away. They're blown away. They're like, what? You didn't need to have a single. They had that look in their eye. You didn't. Yeah, you didn't. And they had that look in their eye like, I've got to go back home. This isn't going to work. I mean, really. I mean, when they start doing the math on today's streaming numbers.

scares them to death and i'm like i'm with you i'm like why would you move the town to want to write songs for a living today i mean you're you would have to be the luckiest it's like winning the lottery yeah if you're on you know yeah that's what we go to a lot is the lottery it's because like every song you write it's you're buying a lottery ticket and like like to your point if you don't have a single you're not making money no and it's just it's a tough business yeah do you guys think it dilutes the

The overall music and the genre. 100%. Right? Because you have to fit it into that smaller box now to get the single. We talked about it before. You have songs that were huge hits back in the day. We have songs that were huge hits back in the day that wouldn't get cut today. They just wouldn't. Yeah.

There Goes My Life, for instance. We talked about that. It would not get cut. I couldn't get that song. Couldn't get arrested with that song. You think so? I don't know. I know you always say that. No, it would not get cut. I'd hate to believe that. I would still love to write one of those. You could. I agree with you. I think the listener, and this is going to sound negative, and maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Social media and TikTok, there's so many...

new artists and so many songs. I think the listeners diluted a little bit to listening to the actual, it's sad, but I do think that's a thing that to get, even get through a song, you know, and you're right. People want to hear jingles. I feel right. We, we, I guarantee it. Everybody at this table has been a part of a song that has been one of the best songs that we've ever been a part of last. I mean, 20 years.

And they're still sitting there. We've pitched them to everybody. They're still sitting there. I think a lot of it too, like nowadays, it's because there's so much media and stuff thrown at you. And you've got kids in the backseat and you're trying to reach back and get them to, hey, we're going to have a wreck. Be quiet. You don't have time or the mental awareness or the time to really think about a three and a half minute song that unfolds.

at the lat the last 30 seconds of the song to get the whole thing you know so you almost need to get the whole thing in that first verse or chorus or you just miss it you know it's weird we've had these conversations in a right it's like you can't save that you better do it because you can't save it for the end another thing that is interesting to all of us sitting here

we all came up the same way, like playing clubs. Yeah. How many club shows have we played on? You can't count them when you're growing up, you're playing bars, you're playing clubs. The new artists today aren't coming up that way. They're going viral for something on Tik TOK or a song or so. And they're in the going from there.

to a label to tour. Yeah. And they're missing 20 years. Oh yeah. Yeah. 15, 20 years of smoky bars, five sets a night. And meeting people. Meeting people. Honing. Learning how to do it. Yeah. And it's, there's a huge disconnect with the way that it used to be

becoming an artist and, and like Kurt said, honing your craft, that part of it's gone. It's, it's gone. And you, it's crazy to see it happen in real time. You know, I was playing in bars where you were at that time, you were playing Skinnered and the stones and you're playing Haggard and Hank Jr. And it was also becoming my music.

Because I was seeing the crowd and how they were reacting to what I was singing. You know, like, okay, they really seem to, you know, like you're doing research without really knowing you're doing research. Right, exactly. You're out there looking every night, playing five hours a night. You know, nine to two. And how to perform and how to make that work. There's a definite decline, which I think there's a reason why we still

while we're still relevant and why, you know, urban still out there kicking ass and, and, and Blake and Tim church and church. Cause they, they're seasoned. There's years of work. Yeah. I went into it. Yeah. And, uh, are we sounding like bitter? I mean, no, I know we're not, but it's like, it's just a new way. I would say lucky, not bitter. I just, I I'm glad I'm not moving here now. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. We were talking about that. Much harder time to navigate. Would never go down the song line. And I would never trade a bar gig in, you know, from 14 to 20, 21. I would never trade one of those five setters in full of smoke. Hey, thank you everybody for listening. And we are so thankful for our sponsor. Original Brands is starting a new era in American domestic premium beer. American made, American owned, original glory.

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Yeah. Songwriting class. I'm an alumni. Yeah. But that was, that was a weird thing to do. You went to college. What a loser. But like, wait a minute. You can, you can become, you can take, you can get a degree. Like it's what? I know. I had no idea. It was really freaky to me, but they asked me to come and speak and I was sitting there and I was just being honest. And some young kids said, you know, what kind of advice, what's the best advice you can give a young songwriter? And,

I said, man, I would drop out and get a bottle of alcohol and go get a club gig and get a banning. Oh, my God. And I never went back to speak again. I don't know why. But you spoke the truth. You did say that? That's fantastic. On the other side of that.

30 years, maybe 25 years, whatever, before in L.A., I was in the house band. I was playing the Palomino. I've told this story a whole bunch, but I was playing the Palomino in the house band, and Christofferson came in. Oh, my God. And, you know, my dad was like, that's the guy. You know, now as a country guy, you know, it was early 20s, and I was just rocking it out in all the country bars. And anyway, there was Chris. And so, I mean, I got to ask him something.

I got to ask him something. I followed him out to the alley behind the bars in North Hollywood. It's like the seediest part of town. It's like the worst part of town. And he's literally in the alley getting into a limo with two hookers, and he's holding a bottle, a big, big giant bottle of Jack. He's got two girls kind of propping him up. And I'm like, Chris, Chris, you know what I'm saying? Chris.

i'm like chris and his driver's kind of waiting got the hat on and everything and and and it's like a seedy back alley trash cans and the cats running around you know i'm like i'm like chris i need i'm jeff steel i'm a songwriter like i need to hear you what what can you tell me what do i need to do what do i need to do sir and he and he's like he's literally doing what he's doing this

He's just doing the rock back and forth, you know, like girls are holding him up, you know, and he's looking at me. His eyes are just crossing back and forth. He goes, kid, never do it for the money. And then he gets into a limo with two girls. It's an amazing story. And then years later, 20 some years later, I get the songwriter of the year thing.

and who are they honoring as the icon Chris Christopherson did he remember well that's I went right out to him he's like buddy I have no clue who you are I love that or why you're here he didn't remember last night much less the day before but

At the heart of it, it's great advice. Even though the irony was dripping, it is great advice. And I told him, I said, you gave me some advice. And he said, what did I tell you? I said, you told me you'd never do it for the money. And he just, he looks at me. And then he got real serious and he goes, did you do it for the money?

I said, no, sir. And he goes, but that's kind of our gig. And, and, and what a cool thing to look back on. Right. But I just feel like the kids, like they're going straight to garage band or they're creatively like it's all out there. It's all out there for them, but it is a different world now that they're coming up in. And I, and I'm sure they're going to figure it out and it's going to be great somehow.

Yeah. And it may be all relative. Like you were talking about, like, you know, where, where the Dwight Yoakams and things like that. It's just a time period of where we grew up and where we were and our memories attached. It'd be the same, you know, 20 years from now, people might say, Hey, where's, you know, wish we had a, had another, you know, Aldean or, you know, the current people that are rocking like right now be the same thing. And,

And kind of the point of the people coming up through social media and we're saying, man, I wouldn't want to be a songwriter. I wouldn't want to be breaking in right now. My first thought is to agree with that and how hard it is. But I feel like God wired everybody in such a way to go after something. He gives you some sort of gift and I believe

bet we were just coming up we too would find a way to get here and try it in whatever capacity it's a great point and there's almost great there's almost more opportunity now with the social media also yeah that we don't have to go knock on a publisher's door you know and get kicked out you know there's other ways in so i don't know maybe like i said it too it's generational it's generational and each generation has their own thing and the music they grew up on but great point i mean it's

Well, so Jeffrey, I'm sorry, Tali. I was going to ask, you know, you're talking about the California days and the boy howdy days. So what was the transition from you being the artist to moving to Nashville to be a writer? Or did you not knowingly, like conscientiously think that? No, it's... Don't leave anything out. I only know. It's a crazy story. It's always a crazy story to me. But I was in... So 94, 5...

um, bam broke up. Um, and it was an inevitable thing that was going to happen. It was. And, and, um, uh, we all knew it was going to, I won't get into that story, but that's a pretty funny story too. A rainy night in Alabama, Birmingham, my hometown fair. We were playing the fair. Uh, anyway, the band broke up and, uh, um, so I, I had gotten a solo deal, uh, on curb records and, you know, I'd come off the road, you know,

You know, the deal you're doing, you're doing 200 shows a year. You're trying to, you're at the radio station every morning and you're out every night just, you know, being crazy and getting up at 6 a.m. to go get the ad and eat the pizza. Got him getting anxieties. Yeah. Yeah, right. I'm feeling it. And I was really starting to have some really bad voice problems. I was having really serious...

Like I normally, oh, I just, I couldn't hit an F sharp, which is pretty low for me in the range, you know? And so I went to get my voice checked. They said, ah, it's not looking good. And it was that era was when everybody was,

doing the surgery. Everybody was getting the surgery. It was the new hot thing to do, you know, like, oh yeah, I get the vocal surgery and blah, blah, blah. I didn't do that. What are you talking about? Is it too late? But I remember everybody was talking, oh yeah, I'm going to get it. I think somebody had gotten it. Was it Patty Loveless or Faith Hill or somebody got it and it started to be a trend in Nashville. Oh yeah, you just have to be quiet for six weeks. And I was like, man, if I, if something's not wrong with me, I don't want to go in there and

I don't want you guys going in there. And I said, is there some other thing I can do? You know? And, um, and luckily this, uh, this gal that was the, um, the head of the department, the, the, um, at what do they call it? The auto learn, learn all she, whatever that was. Yeah. Dr. Ossoff. Ossoff. So she was Kim Kashiri. She was working under him. And so she, she recommended this guy, um, Tom McDonald, Dr. Tom McDonald. And he was a musician, but he was one of the surgeons. Um,

And so she recommended me go see him. And so I went to see him and he goes, he goes, I went to see him at like seven in the morning. He goes, all right, sing your, sing your head. Sing your head. Which at the time, well, she'd give anything. She didn't get, you know. Yeah. And I could not hit that note. I couldn't hit the high note at the end of the thing, the bridge. And, and, and let alone get through the song that early in the wash. I said, man, I can't, I can't sing. So he goes, you should be able to sing anytime. Right when you get out of bed, you should be just be able to sing.

I said, well, I can't do that. There's no way it's going to crack all over the place. Well, he goes, just do it and let me hear what you do. And so I did it. My voice started cracking and, and he immediately said, he said, matter of factly, you're singing from your throat, air out of your throat. Fine. Huh? I never took a lesson, you know, you know, and so he, he made me this deal. He goes, I can help you, but you're going to have to get off the road for a while.

And, you know, as our moneymakers, right? John Rich had just quit Lone Star and offered me the gig as the bass player. Oh, wow. Really? Yeah, Lone Star, he's a bass player. And I'm like, you know, I have four kids, you know, and I'm like, you know, I'm hanging by a thread on a record deal and hanging by a thread on a publisher deal. And what am I going to do? You know, I'm like, wow, it's five grand a week.

Five grand a week, man. And I was thinking about it. And then when he told me, he goes, I'm going to need you to take like 18 months to two years off and not sing. And I'm going to help you retrain and get the air out of your, we're going to get the air from here to here. Not going to believe what's going on. And no surgery, no surgery. So I just prayed about it.

Talk about a blessing. Talk about... Oh, yeah. So I had to make money and I had to get good at songwriting. Oh, my God. I had to really jump in the box and figure out what I was doing. Because I know the time that y'all quit, that Boy Howdy came off the road, y'all were done, that was 96. Mm-hmm.

And then you started having hits. And that was the same time I started. That was right when I met you, I think. Yes, because I came off the road. We did a record and did another record. I remember. And we were writing songs. And our songs were getting cut by other artists at the time. And then 99 came around and made the decision to come off the road and start writing songs. And then you and I wrote a little bit. And then we didn't. And then you started getting...

You and I both started getting rascal flats cuts. Yep. And I used to call you Jeffrey Stoll. Yeah.

I was like, I was like, I was like, it was like, Jeffrey stole my son of a bitch. Jeffrey stole another single from me. I thought I was going to get the next rascal flat single and he gets my wish. And then you get, no, it was great. It was fun. It was a great time. It was a great time. It was like, what's the next thing? What's Hey Gary, what's the next single? It was like, what hurts the most? I'm like, damn it.

Do you know the deal? Wow. Do you guys know the deal? And it was like flip-flops. We started flip-flops. Where Steve Robson, my co-writer, was from London. Okay, so tell, this is what hurts the most, right? Yeah, and My Wish, and These Days. Okay, tell the story. These Days was our first number one, I think. Yeah, and These Days was a song. It's crazy stories. Like, there's stuff we gotta go through, right? It's like crazy. But I get a call from my publisher one day that he's got this guy in town from London, and he's a track guy.

If it's 1998, 99, what is a track? Right. Like, what? He's a what? He's like, he composes these tracks. And he wants part of the song? What? Yeah, yeah. We used to say that. And he's from London. He's a producer. He's got all these people he's working with. And he's over here working with some writers. He had started this song with Danny Wells.

and they didn't finish it. And, and so he said, well, you take a crack at finishing the song. And I said, man, I don't know if I don't want to get it, you know, the get on the back end of somebody's song and, and that you want to go somewhere else and it's over here and you're going over here and it's, it's not good. Right. It's going to be a turd. And, and, and so I called, it was Marklin was my publisher. You remember? And I said, Steve, I said, uh,

I said, just send me the music. I don't want to hear the melody or the whatever they wrote. Just send me Steve's music. So I'd never met Steve, ever met him, ever. And they sent me the music. I had my little studio in my house at the time, little room in my house. And I sat there and listened to his track, which was really well done, like really well done. And just started writing about growing up in Southern California and playing in bands and meeting my wife, you know.

the whole journey and, and, um, didn't have a title. I've, you know, I've told these stories all the time, but I didn't have a title for it, but I made it up at the very end. I sang, that's what I'm doing these days. I did, you know, go to bed. That's what I'm doing. Oh yeah. It'll be the title. I sang and I said, this song sucks. And honestly, God, Neil. And then he, Steve calls me back and says, they cut it. I said, who cut it? This group called rascal flats, cut your song. Um,

And that started my journey. I would go to London and write with Steve for stuff that he was producing. And it was never intended to be pitched to flats. It was never, it was for stuff that he was doing over there. Um,

And then we brought a couple back. Dan Huff heard them and he's like, oh my God, I can get this on. Gary would sing the crap out of it. So it wasn't what hurts the most. Didn't that go to some other people first? Oh yeah. Faith Hill got it and Mark Wills actually cut it. Oh, is that right? And put it out. Steven Tyler got it and said it was the most depressing song he ever heard in his life. Yeah.

By the way, he came to write with me one day. You know, you've been to my studio. This is a house, you know, old house in Nashville. And I was with James Slater and Marty Fredrickson. And we're waiting, and there's a doorbell ring, and we look in the camera, the security camera, and there's like this little old lady with this big floppy hat.

And Slater goes, there's some old lady here. And it was Tyler. It was Steven Tyler. It was Steven Tyler. Oh, James, we love you, buddy. Some old lady here. Wow. It's crazy. Wow. Anyway, that's how the relationship with Flats started for me, man. It was just crazy. It was not intended and they somehow ended up cutting those songs and

It was the craziest thing ever. But what a great time that was. I wasn't really pissed. You wrote one of my favorite songs, Cowboy and Me. Oh, that's so good. When that came out, talk about the right song with the right artist. Yeah. I mean, even the video to that thing. Yeah, I loved it. They did a great job. What a great song. So was it written for Tim, or was that another song that you guys just wrote? That was a thing I had written...

I don't know why I act the way I do, you know, first verse, basically. And it was a day, I had a day with Craig. It was me and Craig. And Craig Wiseman, for the audience out there, who's just one of the most amazing writers. But he just said, oh, shit. He just walked out of the room. He would always walk out of the room. Oh, he was never in the room. But then he'd come back and he'd have the next verse. Oh, my gosh.

And it was one of these things, and it was early on when I first knew Craig, and it was the coolest thing, you know, like when writers start like,

they you can tell you're you're getting something going and they and then you just start trying to outdo each other and you're throwing darts at each other and you know what i mean like it's kind of it's kind of a little bit of a boxing match but it's but it's but it's the coolest thing ever right and and that's what that day was and we fought over the arrangement of that song whether it should go to a proper chorus or do the bridge solo bridge thing and it was just

If we had more time, I would do my imitation of Craig Weisman. Come on, do it now. I don't have a guitar handy, but it's like, oh, it's amazing. That's a great song. That's, you know, it's a great day. It was Big Al Anderson, too. And we wrote it at Big Al's house that day, I remember, and...

It was just an amazing day. And I was just really starting to get to know Craig and had just met Big Al. And that's another guy just talking about songwriting that just, for me, was a game changer that just, you know, influenced, changed everything about what I did. And that going to McGraw, he just sold that thing. Yeah, it was perfect. I thought that was not as good as it gets. No, it's as good as it gets. You're right. It is. Yeah, it really was. And it's crazy to, it's crazy. You know, it's...

Just blessed, man. You know, you're playing that song 20 years later and people still sing it. That's right. Oh, yeah. Craig was the only other guy. He was like one of five writers. He was like second after Jeffrey to text me after Try That in a Small Park. And Craig, he texted me and he goes, I cannot believe you guys wrote the most bigoted, racist, racist song.

Divisive song in the history of country music. And that was it. He left it for me. He left me hanging for like five minutes. And then he goes, he left me hanging for like five minutes. And then he goes, without me. That's awesome. Like the bubbles were going on the skin. Man. It was so Craig Wiseman. It wasn't even funny. Well.

Well, we've talked about this before and Jeffrey being an artist yourself and, and, and Neil being an artist, uh, you guys are overqualified to be songwriters, right? And we've talked about it like, like, you know, me and, you know, Curt and Tully, we're not overqualified to be songwriters. We're, we're right. We're failed artists. We're failed artists. We are failed artists. You're the only one who hasn't been an artist at the table. Okay. Okay. It hasn't failed as an artist. Okay. That's a good strategy because that's when we first met. I need to do it. I need to fail as an artist. Yes, we need to do that. Yeah.

Okay, so... Hit the table today. That's probably the most awards I have, actually. Failure as an artist. I'm going to cut an EP and let it fail. Jeffrey, it's been 20 years since we...

actually we're in the same room together we were in a band called Rushlow and you knew Tim Rushlow oh that's right right so he how did I forget that yeah I don't know how you can forget that I'm sorry we'll bring the pictures in the photo shoot I'll finish my story in a minute but yeah you came out to a show in Clarksville somewhere like that I think it was close and that's when we first met I remember very vividly Tim had said you were coming and we were like oh damn

Because you're also a great bass player, you know? And so that was cool for me. Cause I remember, you know, listening to boy Howdy and everything. And anyway, that's when we first met. It was great having you there. It was like, wow, you know, this is,

Maybe we got a shot. We did. We did. We had, we had one single, I don't know. Hey, that's, that's good though. More than you had came on. More than I had. But what I was going to say to that is, is the fact that it gives you guys, uh, when you have, you know, a few advantages, uh,

one is the fact that as an artist, you know what you wouldn't, wouldn't say. You also get to know other artists really quick and what they wouldn't, wouldn't say. And, and the fact that they're fans of your voice, you know? So when they hear Jeffrey still, you know, vocal on a song, they hear the first line or they hear Neil Thrasher or, or a Brett James, Hillary, Hillary Lindsay. There's so many, so many in town that are artists that are having huge success as songwriters. It just gives a huge benefit. And some of the artists I think,

they love the writing, but they also just, oh man, I love that vocal. And sometimes in the reverse, you could have a great song and the wrong person sing it and they can be a good singer, but for whatever reason, the artist, it could be line two. And they say, who is that? Is that, is that so-and-so? I hate his voice. And I'm like, oh yeah, but just listen. Well, that is true. It's a hit, I promise. And they've stopped. They stopped listening. It is true. But like with Neil and Jeffrey in particular, they both know that,

Somehow they put themselves in this moment in time in that song. And I think when a Jason or Raskin-Platt or anybody Tim McGraw hears that, they're like, dang, I want to give that emotion off. That speaks to me. And the way you deliver that song through the vocal and through the message, it's priceless. Yeah, there's no price. I mean, we talk about this all the time, like two guys like yourself. And when you can sell a song,

Like that. Like it's, it's, I don't even know if you guys realize how valuable it is. Yeah. Because the words are one thing. You can write, we've had this, we've written songs and like until that vocal gets there or everything is there and it's sold to an artist like an Aldine or Tim or anybody, it doesn't have a life. And it might be an inflection in a word, maybe the smallest melody tweak.

You know, that hooks. Yeah, and it's the feeling. It's the emotion. It's amazing. And writing songs, you tend to forget that a lot of times too. Like you forget those little things. Yep. Another sidebar to a sidebar. One story that people don't know about what hurts the most is that there was a song I wrote about my dad after he passed away. It was in his honor. And the title that I had that day I was working on was What Meant the Most.

It was what meant the most. And Steve had this just, you know, the track was amazing. Track was pretty much the record and it was just amazing. And, and, uh, and I just started jumping into writing it and getting the lyric going, the melody going. And, and, and every time I sang it, it just didn't seem like the chorus was adding up. And then when I actually went in, when we actually got it finished and I went in to cut the vocal at the studio at his place, uh,

I messed up and I sang what hurts the most. Are you serious? I swear to God, he stopped the tape and he goes, he goes, he's like, bloke, you got to get in here. You got to get in here. You got to listen to this. I said, I said, ah, just let me give it to me again. I'll get it. I'll get it. I know. No, no, no, no, no. Like I just wanted to fix it. Cause I wanted to get the part right. So I reluctantly took the headphones off and walked in to the control room and he played it. And I was like,

What made you say what hurts the most? I don't know. It's a God thing. He just came out. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. That's a God thing. He made you say it. I don't know. Absolutely. I totally agree. Other than it was from God, because that was really what it was. It wasn't what meant the most. It was what hurt the most. I was telling you earlier, he had fired me.

Cause he didn't want me to get cut my fingers off in a machine shop and he'd fired me. And I was like, I'll show you, I'm going to join a band. And that's what he wanted me to do. He knew I wanted to play guitar. No, man. That is wow. That's unbelievable. I'm going to join a band and travel the country. Go, go, please. He's like kicking me in the ass all the way out the door. I love that story. But so, so when that fell out, well, my jaw dropped and I was like, cause I,

You know, it's over the minor chord. Yeah. The minor, the sixth minor. And I was like, wow. And then that was a songwriting moment where I went, wow, the power of a one word over chord change. Yes. You know, that's what Big Al told me years ago. He'd always say, he always said, it's not what you write, it's what you don't write. Yeah.

you know what you leave out and what you don't play and what i've always said yeah yeah amazing you're either the power that's a great way to put it the power of a word over just falling over the way the melody is like it's it means so much and and hearing it in the room that at that moment and just hearing how it was not only that's way better but it was an eye-opening thing was a songwriting thing too where i was like wow now i see how that works i didn't

I just lucked into that one. That's right. That's amazing. I used to try to write songs like MacDill used to write. A little gut string, you know, just with a mic and a gut string. And I'm like, and then the industry started changing. And it's like, they're not going to hear that. We got to do a full demo. And I'm like, they're not hearing it like he used to do it. When Don Williams and all these, you know,

All these artists, these 30 number ones that McDill had, because he did them all with a gut string guitar and one microphone reel to reel. Every demo he did. He never did a demo session. McDill never did that. And I would try to do that. Didn't you grow up with your whole family singing? Yeah. No, it goes way back. My dad sang professionally since he was four years old.

I love that. That's how you learn to sing harmony when you grow up in a Southern Gospel family. That's how you learn to sing harmony. You learned well, sir. In talking about the early days, I came across something just reading, because I know the Jeffrey Steele, who is Jeffrey Steele, but just kind of going back and learning a little bit about your story, because it's always interesting sometimes for listeners, like, all right, where did you start? Where was the first...

uh, interest in music. And for you, it was in a, it was in the church. Cause you come from musical family, right? Your mom sang and your dad did as well. And, and you sang, um, in your church, um, three dog night, like a joy to the world, right? Yeah. And so what, what was so, what was so cool? I know, right? Jeremiah was a bullfrog. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, it was a church dance and my brother's band was playing. It was the only song I knew that I knew all the way through. And then, again, it said it went over so well because he got a standing O that he played it seven more times. It reminded me of you guys because in the early days, the Aldean, you said, oh, yeah, we'd play Hicktown over and over again. You played it seven more times at that day? No, that night. You know, I was a little nine-year-old kid and, you know, I'm a

I'm holding the mic and I was like, I don't know any more songs. And my brother goes, sing it again. You're killing them. See, that's what I'm talking about. Learning how to get through it though. You're laughing about it, but he's...

We did Hicktown twice and the second one was 18 minutes. I get it. Are you serious? Hey, we got a special request. Let's play Sweet Home Alabama. We did all band introductions. We needed time. We had one song in 90 minutes. That's right. You pull from what you did when you were a kid and how to get through it and circle right back around to what

but young artists don't have any idea how to. Yeah, they don't. That stage presence of just knowing. They can't even play if the track rig goes down. Oh, boy. Sorry. Yeah, you're right. That's just the truth. Oh, boy. I know it might be on carpet. A little bit too much underneath the hood, maybe. I don't know. Well, I mean, it's true, though. It's true. If the artist gets lost in a song today. Oh, boy.

Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. I had a gig the other night where it was one of those moments where the mic stand dropped. You know, like it was a loose. And I kind of just kind of, you know, leaned in and got my elbow on it. Yeah. Strummed the E chord and did that and got it back. See? I'm more proud of that than the Dix. Well, heck yeah. They couldn't do that today. They'd just be standing there. They'd be lost. Yeah.

What a save. They wouldn't have that. That was a predator save right there. Do y'all think it'll... Do you guys think that it'll ever get back or start trending back to where artists will start looking for songs again? Instead of trying to write everything that they do. I'd like to think yes, but I don't know. I think so. I don't either. I mean...

I think that was part of the charm too. Like you were speaking to earlier, an artist would hear a certain thing that the writer did vocally or, or lyrically or melodically, and they'd want to try to capture, or they wanted to get a piece of that vibe because they didn't have it themselves or whatever. I think that was a huge part of a few years ago. Yeah. It's not as much. Well, they're not letting, they're not letting artists have time to develop anymore.

Yeah. So something's going viral or taking them. They see a streams here. They can get streams. They can, you know, do that. And so there's no development. They're just thrown out there. So, you know, when you're an artist and you look at Aldi and we cut the first record 27 years ago. So crazy. I know. So crazy. Yeah. It's over 20 years. It's amazing. You change so much from the first record and second record and third. You're developing as you go, but.

These guys today, they're just thrown out there. So that whole process is, I don't know if they're even feeling it the way we feel.

the process itself. I don't know. And it's interesting because still the biggest artists in the genre are the ones that have taken outside songs. If you still look at Kenny, the Jasons, Tim's church, even though they might be involved in the writing process, they still want it from Blake. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, and, and you have, and this used to singles took a lot longer on the, on the radio. Now they're going, then it goes, you know, goes back and forth, but,

But everything's going so fast now, and you have these artists that they've spent years writing that first record, right? And then... And yet, it's really an amazing record. Then they say, okay, you got about a year to come up with, you know, something even better. Something better than that in a year's time. It's like, oh, man, now what am I going to do? You know? And some of them are doing it. They're working like crazy. I mean, you have... And there are...

artists I think that are still doing, you know, outside, obviously Aldine, but, but even Morgan Wallen is a very gifted writer. Absolutely. And then people are getting calls and like, and like, Hey, he's going to cut this song. And you're like, are you kidding? I haven't had that, you know, blessing yet, dear Lord. Morgan has learned that Morgan was at, when he was out with us, he came out and opened for us before he exploded. And I remember him talking to us about that and I'm like saying,

I'll cut any gray song. Right. Cause he was looking, he was learning Morgan really soaked in a lot from Aldine. Yeah. Just observe what was going on. He did the same way that we did when we were out there with Toby and Kenny and some of these other guys like McGraw and those guys, I could see Morgan learning and what to do or how to do it. You know, like, yeah, Hey, this gets me. If a great song gets me here,

send it. Like, yes. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And that's, that's, he leaves it open. Yeah. There's a lot of artists that don't leave it open. They want to write everything. They want their name on everything. And that's, I guess that's okay. But you know, time will tell. Yeah. But you look at like, um, even like through the years, like a lot of the rock and roll artists, they didn't, I mean,

not you know not eagles obviously but if you look like eric clapton cut a lot of great outside songs wonderful change the world lay down sally change the world even aaron smith's great songs aaron smith's when they hit their biggest comeback diane warren was writing a lot of that stuff yep yep so you know hopefully that's the way it goes are you still doing the songwriting academy yeah i still do it still teach it and um still got a publisher hat on too and uh

waving all the flags and now my daughter's writing too so i'm kind of navigating that with her and um she's doing really great and but the academy's great i've been doing that for that's going on 20 years for me doing that and have a lot of fun i love um you guys might be the same but i love when you when you're seeing a kid like when they get what they're about musically

you know what I mean? When, when, when you see that happen, I just, I get a kick out of that. And like, you see somebody that, cause you know, everybody, everybody's trying to chase the carrot, you know, and you know, they got to train up on their butt behind them and they're chasing the carrot, but trying to do what everybody else is doing. And so my, my, my thing has always been to tell everybody like, um, my dad, my, my mom and dad used to two-step to me when I would play the bars, you know, around a circle, they two-step around stage. And

And I was really good at doing Merle Haggard covers at that point. And my dad would two-step by me. He'd be like, sounds good, son. I'm like, thanks, Dad. And he'd come by the second time. He goes, you're only ever going to be the second best Merle Haggard, though. But you know what I mean? You got to be you. And I took that to heart. Like, I was pissed at him, too. I was like, screw you, Dad. But, yeah.

I try to tell him, you know, like, you can chase everybody, what everybody's doing, but you got to remember that it's probably going to be five years away from

like right to 10 years away, go down to Broadway. There's the next Aldean. There's the next Morgan Wallen down there. Go like when I, when I came to town, Craig, Craig Wiseman was playing drums with Tim McGraw at the, what's that hotel over there by BMI? Oh my God. The, you know, the little, uh, they got the club over there. I forget what it's called. That's where I ran into Toby. It's like the famous, uh, the hall of fame type. Um, Craig was playing drums.

I saw many fights in the Hall of Fame. But we all did those gigs, right? And met guys that went on to be... And I was on the same label with Tim and we knew each other. But so you're hanging out with...

You know, like, like, like back in the day, I would get people, they still do it now, but like, especially back in the day, like, can you get my song to Rascal flats? I'm like, no, but I really can't. I really, you know what I mean? Like, I'm not gonna do that. I mean, just go find your, find your guys. Trust me. It's a better road. Find the next guys and be with them and be their guy.

That's great advice. You know what I mean? And, and, and sure enough, you know, that works. It never doesn't work to, to, if you're coming up, you should be with the players that are coming up and the singers. Is that, does that still happen? So I moved here at 96 or whatever.

First thing I did, went down to Barbara's in the alley. Went down to 16th Avenue Cafe. That's a nice place to go. Yeah, I know. You haven't changed, by the way. You still look the same. I went down and wanted to sit in. Wanted a place in Keith Whitley. Wanted to sit. Is that happening? No, no. It's not? Hell no. I couldn't. They're tearing all those buildings down.

When you said barbers, I thought barbers home cooking out here in Franklin. They got amazing fried chicken. Well, here's another thing, Lathrot. Music Row. I mean, my studio's not on Music Row proper, but it was for a long time. I drove by the other day. I was with one of my kids, and we drove by 19th. I think it was Grand over there. Remember where South Street used to be? So whatever that Grand is. Not Division, but like...

One of those side streets. Got it. But Alamo Irving used to be there. And, and I, I drove by, I was like, Alamo Irving. I mean, I wrote from there. I wrote, I wish there, I wrote, uh, sick. And I, cause that's where Craig was. Tony Mullins was there. Uh, Chris Wallen was there. Anthony Smith, Annie Roboff. Um, Kent Robbins was there. Um,

And I'm driving by and I was like, yeah, I was telling my kid, I was like, you know, I wrote such a set. I'm looking at the first floor and it's all ellipticals. Oh, my God. No. Short carpet and ellipticals. Yo. And mirrors. And this is it. What the hell's going on?

What's going on? Just a transition to a song called Speed. It's so sad, man. Yeah, right? And then, you know, of course, the UA Tower had to come down. It had to come down. It was going to come down eventually. But it was, you know, to see some of the, a lot of that history not there anymore in a lot of the studios. I did a session with Dwight Yoakam about a year ago at Omni Sound. Oh, Omni, yeah.

And you know, it's gone. They tore it down. Favorite, still probably my favorite. That's where you two played on. That was the best room. The first demo y'all played on for me. So much stuff in that room. So much stuff in that room. When that went down, and it's been, I tell everybody like, man, back in the day, there was so much excitement. Music or other studios, there was songs being slung. There was all this excitement. You couldn't not play a session as players. Like back in the day, it was like,

dude, as many sessions as you wanted to. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Studios are gone now. High rises, hotels like, man, this is sad. And like, you see like, maybe we sound old now. The new apartment goes up and it says like, it's called melody on the row. Like, Oh my gosh. What? There's no melody. That's just a bunch of ellipticals. Oh man. I don't know. Oh,

This is probably a conversation that could last forever. But listen, we are so thankful. Oh, my honor. I mean, we are so thankful that you're here. You're an icon. You really are. And still doing it. Thank you. Still doing it. And more importantly, a bass player. Finally. A bass player. Finally. A little. A little. Who's tatted up more, though? I don't know. I don't know. It's hard to say. Shirts off. Shirts off. Shirt and skins.

Thanks for coming in. We're very appreciative. Thank you guys for having us. And thanks for doing it the right way. Thank you. Thank you. Right back at you. Cheers to your success. Hey, guys, thanks for listening. Don't forget to follow us on all the social platforms at Try That Podcast. And, of course, if you're watching on YouTube, make sure you like and subscribe and leave a comment. We love interacting with you. Thanks.