Ep 184: Gary Vider & Chazz Palminteri 02:19:47

Ah! Hold on, I'm eating a cookie. Oh. How you doing, buddy? Hey, hey, good to be here. Look at us up early. Look at us do it. This is an early... And it's my fault, too, because of a flight that I had to end up moving anyway. I moved a flight to go to L.A. and then...

My agent hit me up. He's like, you ready for that benefit on Wednesday? And I'm like, oh, fuck. Oh, no. So I had to move it anyway. So yeah, it's completely my fault. Did you get the credit or did you lose money? No, I'm staying for it. Oh, okay. Yeah. But I mean, sometimes you move a flight. Oh, yeah, that was fine. All right. It worked out. I think I booked it with Miles anyway. Oh, nice. Yeah. Miles Davis. Oh, not Miles. Fucking, what do you call it? Upgrades. Oh. It was upgrades, man.

Wait, wait, what do you mean? I got the New York to LA upgrade. Whoa, that's huge. Huge. Biggest upgrade in the business. Man, these flights are terrible. No one's talking about American Airlines just being like the worst fucking, and I'm lucky so far I haven't gotten screwed, but I have a friend, she got stuck in Dallas for a day and a half. Oh. Yeah. Well, it's crazy. Yeah, they just don't do, I guess it was bad weather, but it's like, it was fog. It's like a $30 million thing. You can't.

You can't beat fog? We got some fans out here? My dad used to call me a fog. But, damn, that's crazy. No one's been stuck in Dallas like that since JFK. All right. But, yeah, that sucks. These day and a halves are crazy. Like, I don't even like getting on a later flight because you throw your whole night off. You have to skip sets and cancel shit. That's brutal. Where were you this weekend?

West Palm Beach and Fort Myers. That's a rough one. Fort Myers is up there as one of the worst, I would say. You think so? I love West Palm. West Palm was pretty great. Great crowds. Fort Myers, they're just kind of like, it's like Naples Light.

It's rough. It's a little more like relax-y, kind of small town-y than Naples. Naples feels like white trash trying to be rich. Yeah.

This feels like... Naples is rich. Oh, is it rich? Naples is definitely rich. Oh, all right. I take it all back. Yeah. But West Palm was like, it was all Jews, and I made an Israel joke, and they're like, yeah! I said, if Hamas wanted to kill you guys, they could just come to this show, because it was all the tassels and the yarmulkes and the whole thing. Be careful. They're listening to this pod. They're going to follow you on tour. Ha, ha, ha, ha.

This is dangerous. Well, hey, if anybody buys a ticket, come in. Don't be tunneling. But yeah, great show, great venue. But Fort Myers, I got to say, it felt small town-y a little bit, but the crowd was hot as hell. Wow, who the hell made that out? That's not my shirt. Someone's profiting off me in a baby blue. I like that. I should...

He's motherfuckers on the internet. That's my Naples design. Damn. Naples, Florida, worst place on earth. I've never been to Naples. It's bad. Really? My wife booked a family vacation in August. In Naples? In Naples. Well, I mean, the land, everyone's like, the land is fine. The beach is fine. I mean, it's not like the land is bad. It's the people that I had to perform for.

Right, right. It's very like, yeah, it's not my scene. There's a lot of great cities in Florida. That ain't one of them. Yeah. But yeah, I was in Lexington, Kentucky. Great club. One of my faves. Great. Just like the best workout room. Comedy off Broadway. Love that room. Hidden gym. Yeah. Oh, my God. Someone in the front row, she just holds up a bottle. And I'm like, oh, no. And she goes, this is for you. And she walks on stage and hands it to me. Oh.

And I was like, is this a good bottle? And everyone's like, it's one of the best. They're cheering. It's a good bourbon. So, of course, you know, I'm trying to take it easy. I end up boozing all weekend. You got to do it. It's a good bourbon. A good bourbon. Went in Rome. Yeah. Who are you with? Anthony DeVito. Oh, nice. Who's working on a one-man show. Check out In the City. He's working on a one-man show about...

His father, who was whacked by the mob. It is incredible. It's very good. Anthony DeVito. It's hilarious. It's also really funny. I'm hilarious and also really funny. Doing a great job pitching this. This is early for us. It's a tearjerker. Yeah, it is a tearjerker. It's emotional. Yeah, it's well-written. It's all true. It's real. The jokes are great. And the story is amazing. It's amazing. Check it out. But let me say this.

Dave Chappelle, Chris Rock getting attacked on stage. You're getting people walking on stage giving you bourbon. I know. That's pretty good. Not bad. Yeah, some guy, you see the guy get attacked on stage? I did. Like two days ago? Yeah, it was another country. Where was it? Spain? Portugal? Yeah. He made a joke about the guy's baby and the guy showed up. Yeah. Yeah.

He looked like a fucking lunatic. That's one thing about touring is we cannot hide because we're literally posting where we're going to be. Yeah. Whoa, we got him on a nice clock on the ear there. Looks like he went open hand slap on him. That guy's huge too, the victim. Probably get a commercial here, sorry. I love how we have to put everything is political. Far right wing, far left activist. Yeah.

Astonishing moment. I rate Spanish father punches comedian. By the way, we could tell he was far right. I don't think the far left dude looks like that. That guy looks like a jacked thumb. Look at him. He really does. That guy's huge. Oh, my God.

Oh, this is where the pedophile comments. Not a great audience member, probably. No. This is for calling my son a pedophile. He is only a bebe. You killed my father. Prepare to die. Say it to my face. Can't believe this happened to Reggie Watts. Holy shit. I'm sorry.

But does this guy leave feeling like, here's a question, like, does he leave feeling good about himself? 100%. Yeah? Yeah, he vindicated. He's a dad. Yeah. He's pissed. The other guy's really in a corner there. I guess I feel two things on this. For one, people will say fucking anything on the internet and not stand behind it. Yes. And it's turned us into pieces of shit. Oh, completely. Like, the comments you get now are just absurd. Like, people, like, just talking shit, fighting words. Oh, yeah.

But if I saw you, you'd be a fucking coward. I don't know who made this comment. I think you probably do. They were saying the reason why this exists is because there are no physical consequences to insulting people anymore. Colin Quinn. It was Colin Quinn. Oh, sorry. Quinn has a joke about that in his new special. But I mean, it's true. Yeah. And I mean, there are if you're that committed to finding the guy on tour.

But like you said, he probably bought a ticket. Yeah. But I remember being a kid. I was at a house party in high school and I called a guy a pothead and he came at me. He like jumped on me and was swinging at me and the guys pulled him off. And I was like, well, I just called you. You like weed. You're a pothead. He's like, don't fucking call me a pothead. And he went nuts. And that's nothing. Imagine what people are saying on the Internet. Like, I hope your mom dies. You homo. Nice fog. Whatever. So like.

That was pretty normal when I was a kid. It was just like, you said the wrong thing and a guy would attack you. Yeah. Jesus Christ. And we've completely lost that. He attacked you over a pothead? I think I hit a nerve with something. But yeah, I was like, you're like a pothead. He was like, what? I just hit the wrong button. Clearly he's not a pothead. Right.

Sounds like a belligerent lunatic. He's a method or something. Or bath salts. What the hell? But yeah, he went at me. But that was kind of normal. I felt like as a kid, it was always like, who's going to hit me today? Well, kids have a lot of rage. And it's misplaced, a lot of it, you know? Yeah. The kid who's getting the shit kicked out of him at home, then he's the angry kid. Yes.

We talked about this on the last one, but it's like that movie Stand By Me where they're like, there's always one. Totally, totally. Some darkness. I remember college, I went to LSU for a while and there was Tigerland, which is where all the bars were. It was called Tigerland. And the fistfights I saw at this place were in, I'm talking guy on the floor getting kicked in the face by a boat shoe, a lot of yellow polo shirts and white hats that had letters on them. There it is, Tigerland.

But the fistfights were banana. I mean, it was crazy. Bottles breaking over heads. It was like Roadhouse. I went to Bear Land. I saw a boat shoot up a guy's ass. It was terrible. Ha ha ha!

One of the worst experiences. Good line, have a cookie. Baltimore Berlin. Is this the oatmeal? Yeah. Motherfucker, what are you doing to me? There we go. Where do you get these? Right on the corner. There's a coffee place that we go to. And then there's great homemade cookies. That's a hell of a cookie. This is a pedo. You looked like a pedophile before, but now you're tossing cookies. Are you giving out cookies? Jesus Christ.

How about this comedy jersey? I love it. You got that Paragon? Yeah, yeah. Shout out Paragon, New York institution, man. Hell yeah. They were such nice guys who ran it, too. The family was so cool. We did a comedy show there. Yeah, the comedy Underground Overground. They do pop-up shows, these guys, at like Katz's Deli. What was the one on like...

That building where people jump off? Oh, the Edge building? The Edge? Really? On 34th Street? Yeah. Building where people jump off. Maybe don't call it the Edge. It sounds like inviting for suicide. Right, right. We're going to kill yourself. The Edge. Hey, cool. I did one at McSorley's last week. Really? Mm-hmm. That's a classic bar, too. Great bar. Oldest bar in New York. That's right. That or Ear Bar. Ear Bar.

Ear Bar's awesome. Gray Bar. I remember Christian McLaughlin from Comedy Central took me to lunch there, and I have a name in New York where I'd never been there, and I was like, whoa, this place is fucking old school. Oh, yeah. Apparently that's on Spring. Apparently Spring was like a strip back in the day. There was a strip club on the corner of Spring and Greenwich. Yeah. Ear Bar. There's all kinds of stuff over there. Here's Mark after a bad set. No strings, though. No strings attached. Damn, dude. That's the place. They had a show there? Yeah.

What? Yeah, it was funny because it was on the like hundred something floor because that's, you know, the whole thing is like, well, it's comedy, but with a view. Which, by the way, anytime you add anything to comedy, it doesn't help. Bad. I remember our buddy John Pally used to run a show on Arlo and Esme. Yep. And it was called Buns and Puns. It was like this joke.

There was nothing to do with puns. I think he just liked that name. Yeah. He would give out buns. Yep. And then he would give out jello shots to the crowd. It was nice that he put effort into the show. He made all of them himself. It was pretty incredible. But then...

The gimmick was Buns, like he thought it was funny, to have aerobics, like 80s aerobics behind you on the screen. So while you're doing this, it's like women doing this. And you're like, I love that you're going above and beyond, but this is not helping. Yeah, just book a decent act.

And we'll all have a good time. But he filled it every night. Yeah. I mean, there was a couple four or six people shows. Sure. But there were a few also that were like, and they were like stack lineups. Oh, yeah. Every day. Vecchione was on and all these guys. Kumail would be on. Yes. It'd be like a lot of like, at that time, Hannibal. Yes. Guys who were like blowing up in New York at that time. Was a guy doing like Brooklyn open mics. That show was a treat. It was a treat. You got drunk for free. You guys were there. Yeah. And then the audience. Yeah.

Yeah, it was fun. But yeah, with this show, we're on the 100th something floor and they're like, you get a view and then it's just one of those foggy days. It was cloudy up there. Cloudy, yeah. No American Airlines probably had a few flights on the ground. Yeah.

Damn. You know what this reminds me of is the Dubai. Dubai just had a comedy festival. Yeah. And I was talking to Ian Lara. He's like, it was insane. Every show was great. You know, Schultz did the arena and Chappelle was there. He did the arena the next night. I'm like, Dubai. Comedy has made it to Dubai. Like, the whole thing seems. Oh, it's a huge city. I guess, but it's. I don't know. We have fans over there. We do? We've talked about this. I don't know Dubai. I get messages all the time from India. Yeah.

By the way, zero taxes in Dubai. Whatever you earn, you keep. I like that. Zero taxes. What is it, Fort Myers? How do they pay the roads? I think they just use their fucking oil money. Wow. Oil. That's the good stuff right there. Yeah. Yeah. Need some of that. But he said it's 90% expats. So it's like doing a show in Cleveland. Damn. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I mean, I'm doing a Euro tour. You just did one. I mean, I'm expecting it to be mostly expats. Yeah, yeah. And at least, like, you know, the city is, like, Paris. Yeah, well, when you get to Ireland. Have you done Ireland before? I did it with you. Oh, but, like, your own show. This time I'm doing it, yeah. Oh, you're going to fucking shit. I'm pumped. Are you doing Vicar? I don't know. Vicar, please. Where is that? There you go. Oh, you're doing...

Oh, the Olympia Theater. That might be even bigger. I don't think so. But Ireland, just the hottest crowds of all time. It's great. I had so much fun when I was there with you, man. That was a blast. We had the best crew of all time. And we covered it with Quinn, but it was Quinn, DiStefano, Rachel, Nate Bargatze. I'm leaving. I think.

Who am I leaving out? Chrissy D. Yeah. Oh, you said that. Rachel, yeah. Sean Padden. Oh, there you go. You know what's weird? On those Ireland shows, I bombed my first one, and I realized, like, oh, I'm doing too much of a set. I had to be in the room. And then I was on the next one. I was a little more riffy, and that worked. It's interesting. You have to change up not your material, but your vibe. Yes. The way you present your material. 100%. It's so true. I feel the same way. It's almost like...

Some cities, they want it to feel more spontaneous. Yeah. Whereas for your crowd in Cleveland, whatever, they're like, here's the jokes. Yes, yes. They just want the jokes. Exactly. I think that European, British-y, Irish-y, they're all funny. So they're like, you're just coming up here and reciting your album. Anybody can do that. We got jokes, too. You got to be you. So I had to learn that in real time. Yeah, it feels like you care more about the show, I guess. Yeah. Yeah.

Then I watched Tommy Tiernan. Beast. Killed. Yeah. Killed. Talk about in the room. He's like, look at this fucking bloke over here. He's a fog. You know, he went nuts. Good times. I just realized we don't overlap on Bert's tour.

I was so annoyed. I got my shades and I saw Mark. It's like you're there two nights before me. Pull it up. I'm in Macon, Georgia, and I think Charleston. I'm in Savannah. No, it doesn't matter. I was just pumped that we were going to have a couple of those. I thought so, too. It would have been fun. Yeah. So who are you with? Do you know? It's a good crew, but I thought it was us together and I was kind of pumped. Yeah, we can get boozed up out in the South. Yeah.

Oh yeah, those first two are me, Maycon and Charleston. I love Charleston. It is a good time. Where are you? Savannah and then two... Oh, you missed my day. Damn! Savannah's awesome.

Yeah, I know. How does it work? He's like, you're all on buses driving from city to city? Yeah. How many buses? What does it look like? I think the comics, they have girl bus, they have a guy bus, and you're on it with Bert and Big Jay and Soder. Do you sleep at all? I took Ambien. Really? Yeah, because I couldn't sleep. Oh! Oh, shit. Short bus. Oh! Oh!

Oh, wait a minute. Oh, this fucking guy. Literally my peer. Jesus Christ. What are you doing? Lizzo's pod? This is crazy. Golly. Our good buddy, Gary Veeder, who you guys have heard a million things about. Whatever you want. No dress code here. I'm wearing a jersey. He has a hot new special out right now on YouTube called Could Be Worse. Could Be Worse.

Yeah, get that microphone in you. Look at that suit. That is a crisp clean suit. I know. Tie was a little long, but... Well, on you, everything's long. I know. What are you, going to full Pee Wee Herman here? You look like a ventriloquist. You're the one who dressed me. I know. We went suit shopping together. Oh, how cute. It was a fun day. Sam called all the shots. Oh, yeah. These are taped up.

Actually, no, this one's not taped. You got baby proof? Oh, yeah. Look at that. So these are espresso brownies. The wife baked them. Mamacita. Baked last night. I'll open this crack. Wow. I'm sure you were baked last night, you pothead. Easy. Easy. Wait a minute. I've calmed down on smoking. The wife made them? Yeah, yeah, she made them. I'm not a brownie guy. That's really good. A good brownie. Espresso brownie. Why do you keep saying espresso?

There we go. All right, I'm retarded. What do you want, man? Oh, yeah. Whoops, sorry, that's where I am. This is such a good special. I hope you guys all watch it. I'm sure you've seen Mark and myself promoting it, but...

Just joke, joke, joke, start to finish. If you like just old school, pure comedy. Yes. And what's great is it's an actual special. Like every joke crushes. Thank you. You know, every special now, it's a lot of B stuff and a little filler and a lot of crowd work. This is just banger after banger, which is a throwback, sadly.

Well, going on the road with you guys obviously has helped because it's like you get it tested in front of a good crowd, good fans. I want to try one of the- They want to hear jokes, man. Yeah, right? That's a rare thing. You're just telling jokes. So it's like, and it takes time to come up with a good joke. Oh, yeah. So you got to work on it. Jesus Christ. Oh, yeah. These are walnuts. You know, Sam, you're good with nuts. Yeah. In my mouth. Yeah.

Holy fuck. Yeah. These are my favorite. Oh, you fucking asshole. Jesus Christ. You want one? You're good with that? Come on. Have one of these. Have one on a cookie. Have one, dude. Come on. Come on. There you go. Enough to go around. Oh, my God.

Also, we run two shows in New York. We've been running two shows in New York for, I don't know, eight years. Yeah, that's been helpful. And that is so helpful. Yeah. Burning the news. Irish exit back in the day. Back in the day. Was that your first show together, you two? That was where we started. And it started as a...

We were putting it together, but then we had people who had to bring people because we couldn't pull an audience. That's right. So it took so much time. And then it was just like, as time went on, people were like, oh, this is a good show. It was completely free. Yep. And it was on 52nd and 2nd. And we dealt with- I used to live by there and I loved it. Yeah, you used to live by there. Yeah, it was perfect. And they just had such a crazy-

uh crazy managers that worked there like a bunch of drunks it was just it was mayhem and we were like the one successful thing they had going and they didn't even know how to handle it i know and it was pretty it was pretty awesome though that we were able to do whatever we wanted when we were there but uh you know it got us better for sure and then uh and then that expanded then we went to over to the seller yeah and after remember when they changed uh hands ownership and the new guy came and he's like

This is how we're going to do it. We're going to charge everybody 50 bucks. I know. We're going to sell food. We're going to have food tickets. And we're like, whoa, whoa, whoa. It's a free show. There's no food tickets. He just took over. These people never understand what they actually have. Yeah, they have.

Hey, we're putting on a show. We're getting people in a door in any place. That's like the hardest thing in the world. And they didn't appreciate that. I remember in the beginning they had girls drink for free between 8 and 9 and nobody was showing up. And I was like, just add the comedy show in there. And all of a sudden people started showing up and they're like, we need to start charging people. I'm like, what?

Then they'll stop coming. Yeah, then they'll stop coming. It's like you just got them in the door. Yeah. What are you doing? And then the bar was empty and our show was packed. Yeah. We were like, hmm, people aren't paying enough. They're not buying enough drinks. We're like, okay, then no one will buy drinks. I know. And it was a Tuesday night, too. These people didn't get it. But anyway, they're out of business. Yeah.

There's a reason for it. Yeah. Irish Ivy has been closed for like years. And then we actually left right before they closed. We didn't even know that. I don't even think we knew that they were closing. It was like, we're like, maybe we found out like a week before and we were like, all right, let's, and we just pivoted. Yeah. And then we found a great spot at the cellar and then we expand the show and then we have it Tuesdays and Wednesdays. Oh yeah.

Great workout room, man. It's everything. Huge. It's a secret weapon. Sorry. We got to plug his new pod, too. Oh, yeah. This is big. It's coming out. I mean, it's coming out. Wait. I don't know when this is coming out. If this comes out Father's Day, that's perfect, too. I've listened to episode one. It's incredible.

Yeah. He only sent me episode one, but tell the- So, yeah, I mean, it's a crazy story with my dad and I, and my dad was a con man, and we stopped talking 24 years ago. I mean, both of you guys know the story, but the podcast, it follows my relationship with him and kind of the things that we went through, and-

A lot of stuff happened when I was a kid, so I'm not sure if I exactly remember everything. So I start talking to different family members, talk to a therapist, I talk to some friends to help me like guide me through basically the ideas to eventually track my dad down and see what he's been up to after all this time, after these 24 years. And yeah, it's just a lot of stuff that happened, a lot of cons that he pulled that affected the family. And I want to find out if, you know, if he did it completely for the family.

you know, the family out of like, you know, did he, did he need to do it because that was his only way to survive and make an income? Or was he just selfish? Because I mean, eventually it did destroy, eventually it did destroy, uh, did destroy our family. But, you know, uh, I do, you know, go into this podcast with the idea of, you know, maybe I could reconcile with them because it's been so much time. Yeah. Yeah.

You think it's... I mean, are you done with shooting all the episodes? Done with shooting. You know, I can't say if I was able to track them down, so it leaves a little bit of a mystery, but it's 10 episodes. It's fun. Yeah. It's a cool thing that I was definitely able to experience, and, you know, it just...

at the start of the podcast, I just became a father. So it picks up from there and it kind of, you know, seeing me through like the beginning of fatherhood and really wanting to take on like, all right, the first step is interviewing the baby. It's terrible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's pretty advanced though. So no, he, you know, it goes through this whole, like this, this whole thing of like, you know, uh,

my dad and I, we had cons together where it's like, I mean, the most famous con is that we went to Madison Square Garden for four years without, yeah, without, yeah, without tickets. We posed as Sports Illustrated for Kids Reported Me. And then my dad posed as a photographer and they gave us complete access to the entire garden. I'm talking locker rooms. I'd interview players. Oh my Lord. And then, yeah. What a story. Look at that. That's me with, little Gary with that bowl cutting. Yeah. Oh,

That bowl cut would get you in anywhere. Holy shit. L.A., Bill Murray. Ugh!

Phil Jackson, look at that. Wow, this is incredible. Cindy Crawford. Holy hell, you're first owner. I fucked her. Wow, man. Yeah, I mean, everybody bought it. Richard Gere. Richard Gere. We're all going for the same thing. T-Claw the boy. Send him back.

Oh, man. So, yeah, we would, my dad was able to talk a good game and got us, we would have press passes and I would sit, I mean, wherever there was an option, but like, I mean, sometimes in the press box, but a lot of times there would be a seat open on the floor and I would sit there. He would be taking pictures. We wouldn't even sit together. And yeah, it was just for four years, over 50 games and hung around the Knicks in like that prime era of the 90s. And then same with the New York Rangers.

Unreal. Now you can do this with your kid. I know. Times are a little different now, but I think you could still figure out a way how to comp you. I mean, that was the thing that my dad always taught me. People seriously do believe whatever you tell them. A majority at least.

Did you know this was a con when you were doing it? Did you know I'm not really reporting? Yeah, I'm not an idiot. I know. I mean, I go in with a pad and a pen and my dad would give me like a little prep talk before. Like, hey, these are the things that you could say. But I mean, he would do a lot of the talking with like the main people that he'd have to interact with to like get us to the next level. So was there juice? Were you excited to be like pulling something off or we were just happy to

be I mean it was it was I was excited to be meeting I mean everybody I met was somebody that I wanted to meet or you know that that especially I was so I love sports I love I love the NBA I love I love hockey and stuff so I was like just so excited to go to these games and that was the way that my dad was able to take me so I was pumped to just just to go and when we were going to you know see the Chicago Bulls I'm like oh I'm gonna go and meet Michael Jordan I knew that that was gonna happen I knew so you knew we'd find a way in a

He would never get shut down. So it was incredible. And we were also doing this so many times that people just recognized us. So the security guards knew who we were. It's like you're a familiar face, and then they just gave you access. So after a few times, it just became easier. What was the experience in the Bulls locker room like with Jordan and Phil Jackson and Pippen? So when I met Jordan—

He was in his own – he already got dressed. Didn't get to see his cock. But went into – Yeah. Holy shit. He was in a separate locker room with Phil Jackson and a bunch of assistant coaches. So he wasn't in the own thing. So I guess his life was just like he could be separated from the rest of the team, at least in that setting when I saw him. And he was there with Phil Jackson. And then when I saw Scottie Pippen, he was in the corridor. So I didn't see –

him in the locker room. And then in the Bulls locker room, it's just, you know, every locker room kind of all meshes together right now. But, yeah, it's all, you know, guys getting dressed, walking around with their hogs out. Sure. It's such an interesting story because on paper, he's a great dad. Yeah. You're doing something illegal. He's using you. Yeah. But you're meeting these – so it's kind of like this –

this toss and turn of like, is this horrible? This is the fun one. This is the fun one. This is kind of what brought me back to like, oh, my dad and I, we had these great memories together. This is something that's so unique and special. And it's the best memories I have as a kid. Sure. But there's so many other things that he did. And he walked out on the family, dude. Ah, well, yeah.

Well, yeah. I mean, his lies became so much where, I mean, he was in constant legal battles. I mean, he would, I mean, he would impersonate a cop, you know, it's like, I mean, he's not, he had a, you know, undercover cop car. Yeah, I know. I know. But,

But he also, I mean, impersonating cops. Every business that he had was being sued. His last business before we basically- But he just dragged it out in court, right? Dragged it out in court. He knew how to, he would represent himself in some cases and he would beat the case. Him and David Berkowitz. Yeah, exactly. Ted Bundy. Yeah.

He figured out a way how to beat the court system. I mean, he knew the law and like he knew if you delay things that things operate on a certain budget. Like you'd be I remember his furniture business was taken on by the New York State Attorney General. And they were able he was able to basically win out in court over them just because of delaying things. And then later in life.

He was impersonating. He had a payphone business, was able to have over like 200 accounts, but he was impersonating AT&T. So that's how he was getting these accounts. The guy who really saw the future. I'm going to invest in a payphone. That's what it is. Is that a part of him?

What's that? Is that him? That's Mike Keenan. I didn't know either. Mike Keenan was head coach of the Rangers, so that's who I'm taking a picture with. Yeah, but he looks like my father in that setting, the way he's holding me. You have all these amazing memories, but they're just with celebrities. They're not your dad. Yeah, exactly. My dad...

and I during these games I mean we'd never take pictures together he also would say he would tell people that he wasn't my father at the games like and he would use different aliases over like over time so so it's one of the things where I remember going to the games as you know we do this scam so much I'm like hey can you just say that you're my father

It's like, I mean, I don't think that's needed. You could still like, cause it's much weirder to just say that you're a photographer with a lone kid. True. But, uh, but yeah, he just loved, he loved to lie. He needed to lie. And, uh, and that was his quality. He was good at it. Yeah. It's like, it's kind of like Leo and catch me if you can. For sure. Absolutely. He, he, everything he did, uh, uh,

He found a way. He got off on that scam. And yeah, there's things that when I was growing up, I mean, I remember starting off and just like going to movie theaters with my dad. He wouldn't pay. He would just be telling me like go under the ropes and like – And then he'd just get to the usher and be like, that's my kid that's like down the corridor. And then he'd get a free pass. And so it's like every time we'd go to the movie theaters and same thing with like how we'd say that he wasn't my – I mean he would say that he was my father there. But he would –

I would tell him, I'm like, can we just go to a movie theater and you actually pay? And he just never would do it. I mean, he is good at what he does. Great at what he does. He's legal, but he's a talented guy. It's an illegal talent, but talent's talent. For sure. I mean, everything. It was like, you know. Also, he's a kid. He doesn't have a choice. He's like kind of forcing his kid to be complicit. Totally abusive. But I'm just saying he was a pro.

The way a father obviously teaches his son good things, my father was teaching me, to him, this is how the world works, and this is how you get by. So he was looking at all these things as, all right, I'm showing my son this is how he could get further in life. I don't know. I mean, this is kind of old school. You don't see these kind of guys anymore. It's harder to do it. It's harder to do it. It's so funny that you're like, Dad, can we play catch? He's like, no, let's fucking con Jose Cancun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's always like...

It's always something. It's always something. I mean, if we were going out to eat and the reason I think like the payphone thing was so interesting was that we could go to a restaurant

And it would just be like, oh, it's just like, oh, we're out at a restaurant. All of a sudden their phones would stop working. And then it's like, who could fix their phones? But the phone guy who just happens to be there and you're like, how did those phones just stop working when we were there? Or it would be like another time, you know, phones would stop working and we'd go back to this place. And like he'd already made himself very familiar in these settings.

And it's like he was always up to something, whether it's like I mean, I never saw him cut phone wires, but it's like all these like interesting situations that we would be put in that he just somehow always had an out and was always able to figure out a way to like get us something for free or barter.

This is a movie. I mean, there's a movie in this for sure. Just cutting the phone lines, like him back in the... Yeah, I mean, there's so many things. Because not only do I... So I talk to different... I have two older sisters, so they tell stories that I didn't know because I'm the youngest. And so I stopped talking to my dad when I was 15. They both stopped talking to him as well. But they remember things that

and they tell stories on the podcast about their experiences and their experiences are similar, but they have their own stories of things. There was no WNBA, so they weren't. Yeah, yeah, exactly. They couldn't get into that. But they did, you know, they experienced the same exact thing and then just from like an older standpoint. So it's cool to hear them. And then I go and I talk to my mom about my dad for the first time and like we haven't talked to him in 24 years. What does he say?

She didn't want to say much. Let's put it that way. She's seen some crazier shit, I'm sure. Yeah. So it's a tough thing because, I mean, my dad is very litigious. And there's a big fear of, like, anybody who is involved in the podcast about things like, you know, coming back. That's season two, dude. Yeah, I know. Yeah, exactly. I battle my dad in court. And he defends himself. I wear that suit for my special. Yeah.

You got a lot of evidence. I mean, you got all the photos. Yeah, yeah. But it's like, you know, there are a lot of things in the podcast that legal-wise I couldn't say. So the podcast is called Number One Dad, and it's going to be available everywhere starting on June 10th. And it's like a movie. It's audio, but it plays out like a 30 for 30.

on ESPN. Really great music. It tracks me in real time as I try and learn more about my dad and then also learn presently what he's up to. It's a past and present type focus. Wow, but no diddle stuff.

What do you mean? Like he never did that. Like he fondled me? Yeah. No, no, no. So that's kind of good. I'd rather grunt than diddle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't get diddled. Played against molestation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very good. I know. My dad's Kevin Spacey. And a talented guy. So what did... Can I ask what is he doing now for money or is he just...

you know, is he living? That's what it's like. That's where, that's where the podcast eventually goes, where it's like, I have to find out, is he up to something that's good or is he bad? Has he changed at all? So it's kind of, yeah. So it's like, that was that kind of my mindset of going into it at that age.

Probably not. Well, so one of the things is like I talked to Sam in the podcast because like Sam comes from experience of not talking to his biological father. And it's interesting because it's – I mean there are people out there that obviously have poor relationships with their family. But Sam was a good person to talk to because it's like you reconnected with your dad or tried to at one point just to see what he's up to when you were 19. And I –

You know, I didn't know what it was going to be like for me. So Sam helps guide me. It's very rare that you reconnect with someone like that and you're like, this guy's great. Yeah, yeah. Right, right. No, it's usually they're out of the picture for a reason. Yep. And you're going to be disappointed. And they're usually some sort of narcissist. Right. I remember I showed my therapist at the time.

that he wrote me and he goes, every sentence is I, I, I. There's nothing about the impact he made on you. And I was like, oh, it's stuff like that. Interesting. Diddy's similar in his apology. See, that was all I. When he said, like, my rock bottom, beat the shit out of him. Your rock bottom is not supposed to be

Yeah. Not as bad as the other person. Right, right, right. The one getting kicked in the head. Yeah. But that's like, it's like narcissistic. Do you think he's a narcissist or do you think he's just like? I think a narcissist, a sociopath. Like, I mean, it's everything that, he can't see the wrong that he's doing at all. And he's like, your face is lighting up as a kid. So there's gotta be a little bit like, man, I'm the man, I'm the great dad. Yeah. I mean, you're, you know, I'm going through, you know, between the ages of, you're so,

I'm so involved in this. And this is between when I was between the ages of 9 to 13. So everything, you know, from 9, I'm like, I'm looking at my dad. I'm like, wow, this is so cool that we get to do this. And these were memories of me going to Madison Square Garden that I couldn't share the next day in school because, I mean, we're sneaking our way in and we're doing it technically, you know, illegally. And he wouldn't want people to know. So it was a secret that I had to keep. No paper trail back to the kindergarten. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

But he wouldn't want any of that to come back on him. And so as I was getting older, I was like, well, not only did I see like these lies that were happening, I was like, OK, like at least I'm benefiting from it. But then I saw like other things where people would get very angry at him demanding money that he owes them. And it's like, damn, this is like my my dad. And I'm like, why can't you just be like a normal dad? Yeah.

Yeah. And that was the tough part as you're getting older. You're like, just be – you watch a normal dad when I'd be playing sports and they're in the stands. Right. It's like, oh, this is cool. Like this dad's cheering on his kid and he seems very supportive. And then my dad, we were playing Little League. All of a sudden, he'd have like four bats from the Little League and they'd be in the trunk of our car because he lifted them. And then he'd give – I remember he gave one bat –

He was a coach of our Little League team. And somehow a bunch of Little League equipment went missing.

And then we see my cousin who was like eight years old at the time, maybe like a few weeks later. And he just hands him a bat. This is like property of half hollow hills. Literally got it. And that was his, that was his birthday gift, like an old bat. And you're like, what are you doing? Like, it's like so obvious that this isn't a bat. That was like a real new bat. That was a gift. I'm so fascinated by this. Now, did you meet his dad? Was his dad a similar company? No luck.

His dad was from the Czech Republic, Czechoslovakia at the time. And he just like, oh, you know, all of us Jews to go down in World War Two. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And but yeah, he was able to obviously got out. And then, you know, he was just, you know, kind of a foreigner where just like going. He definitely struggled to make money. And my dad, I think, just saw that. And then he just went a different route. But my grandfather, his father was a good guy. And

uh, just my dad just, I think just saw a way to cheat. And I think it's that time period of like kids growing up. My dad, I guess he grew up in like the fifties where you could just like, you're sneaking around everywhere you go. There's easy, easier ways to be a con man. And I think you just learned the tricks of the trade. Now what hit you at 15 that made you break out? I mean the constant line. He also, I mean he was treating my, uh,

He was treating me badly. He was treating my mom badly. It's just like everything, you couldn't believe what he was saying. He'd be gone for weeks at a time. And I remember just the feeling of like every time he would leave the house, I'd be like, I'd have a sense of relief. My parents were constantly fighting and it always seemed like it was my dad, from as a 15 year old looking at it, it was my dad's doing. It was my dad was in the wrong. My mom wasn't doing anything. She was a stay at home mom. What if she was kind of just at, you know, had to deal with everything that he was bringing to the table. What was her reaction when you're going to these games? I,

I think she just went along with it. I mean, like she's married to the guy, like, are you going to divorce somebody because of that? It's like, eventually it leads to, you know, other, other problems were the reason for them falling apart. But, uh, but yeah, they, that was just like, Oh, I seem happy about it. And if,

I'm happy and it doesn't seem like I'm getting hurt. You just go along with it. But, uh, but I think she was, did she ask you think how you're getting in or do you, do you think, Oh, I mean, she definitely, I mean, I definitely, uh, told her, I don't remember like if there was a specific conversation or anything, but I mean, she knew a hundred percent and I,

think you kind of just go with it. It's like, what are you going to do if like that was that's your son? And he seems like I was having a great time. Sure. You know, especially in the beginning. And then and then I think, you know, she eventually, you know, that stuff was happening between them. And then the way that he was treating the entire family, it just was

uh, lets everything fall apart. Now, do you have a, cause look, my dad's a dweeb. He's annoying, but I see myself doing dad shit. Like it just stuck. Do you have any in you? Like you got some con artist blood because we run shows together. This guy can cook the book. She's good with numbers. I mean, I've seen what you can do with a spreadsheet. Well, I've always been, I've always been good at, uh,

at talking to people and like, and getting them to go along with something for the ride, you know, whether it was like convincing somebody for us to put on a show, but back in the day, convincing someone on the road to pay for an expensive. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, you come to, you come to this city. You don't need here. You're a fool. Let me tell you, Sammy always pays, but, uh, Sam cut, start, starts cutting the phone wires. Yeah.

But, um, but no, what I would do is, I mean, back in the day, like starting, I mean, definitely in high school, I mean, cheating on exams and things like that was fine. I would steal exams. I always found a way to, I would be able to go into a classroom where like after the school day was over and I go into a filing cabinet, steal exams. I stole grade books. Um,

And then like, you know, you have a red pen. You could just easily change some grades. When I was in college, I was stealing exams too. So I stole a midterm and a final out of an accounting test, out of accounting class. And they were, it was very easy. All the accounting class was, they had two classes. The first class was like 11 o'clock and the next one was at two. I was in the two o'clock and the teacher would lay out the exams in alphabetical order and

So I just went to the first class and just nabbed some person exam and then, and then gave it to kids that were smart in my class just so they could fill it out. And I had all the answers by the two o'clock class. So it's just like a simple thing. So one of the things my dad, and as far as like what was passed on is there's always a way, there's always a way to figure out something that,

that could be easier. Now, would it have been easier to study? I mean, I had to think about that. You know, I had to think about the reason. No rush when you study. Yeah, no rush when you study. But I didn't want to study. I didn't want to learn accounting. No, thank you. You're like the Danny Ocean of SUNY Buffalo. Yeah, exactly. Now, also, people always say, hey, you can't cheat as easily now with the internet, social media, DMs. You're always traced and tracked. But there are also help.

with social media and internet and all that. You can use that to your advantage when you're scheming as well. Oh, absolutely. I mean, I don't know the way it works now in terms of that, but I mean, they could definitely figure it. There's always a way. Always a way. Liars are so confident. Yeah. The way your dad would lie, he probably just made people be like, well, why would this guy lie? Absolutely, yeah. Why would this person lie about this? Yeah, true. He's got a kid with him. So part of also being a good liar is you do tell the truth

uh, like 95% of the time. So, because then you don't get caught in your lies as much. If you could keep track of your lies, you could kind of get away with it. So a little bit more of the truth is always beneficial in the line. Can you give an example? Uh,

Well, you know, if my, I guess if we were going somewhere, it's like, you know, he is like a, whatever. He's a payphone man. He fixes payphones. Like he is who he, he is partially who he says he is. You know, you know, I'm his son. This is his family. You know, I, whatever I play high, just like a background of a story, you know? But if he's, if he's, I guess, screwing somebody over, uh,

you know, it's going to be like on money. It's like, it's going to be on something like that. He doesn't deliver on certain goods. So it's like a way of like getting, getting by on something. Like he was in the furniture business and, and,

he was eventually not delivering furniture to people, but he would only not deliver it to a certain group of like certain amount of people. Now I'm gonna say certain group, blacks. No, like a small portion of people wouldn't get their furniture. But if you're giving it to a good number of people, then you're at least like, hey, well, that doesn't make much sense. Yeah, they got theirs. Back then or Google reviews. Yeah, there's no Google reviews. You could do like Better Business Bureau, but it's like, this is a hassle. And a lot of times where it's like, if somebody was getting conned,

My dad would think that they wouldn't go through these steps to figure out that he is a con man or I'm going to call the Better Business Bureau. And you'd need a lot of complaints for it to get back to you. Well, what's scary, because this is gold. I mean, there's so much great stuff here. I'm on the edge of my seat. But if this blows up big, guess who's going to come a-calling? I know, yeah. Papa. Papa Beater. Yeah, absolutely.

Gary, what do you say? One more job. Yeah. Just get laughed at of Madison Square Garden. You were there for game. Gary, was it game seven when the Rangers. Was it game seven? I was at game one, game five, and game seven without a ticket. Game seven. Were they in the cup? Yeah. Actually, wait. I could share. Victor Gary in the Stanley Cup.

Yeah, you'd have to go like Getty Images. But there's some stuff there of like my dad and I just like right at the glass like we eventually link up. And then he's taking a picture as Messier brings the cup like around. And – OK. Messier cup. Yeah, you could try that. And Gary also ended up at Gracie Mansion then. Yeah. So Rudy Giuliani was mayor at the time and then they had the – oh, by the way, those are my hands.

Come on. Like if you go down, like, yeah, those hands, yeah. Oh, my God. But, yeah, but you got to – there's a picture. Keep going around. Oh, my God. Did you see the kid in the Panthers game behind the – Oh, without the shirt? There was a little kid. Yeah. He was flexing shirtless behind – you got to pull that one up next. No, I didn't see that. But, yeah, you got to keep going around. It's like right around the boards where he's going. Yeah, keep going, keep going.

Might take a minute. Jesus. I mean, how old were you? Oh, look. Yeah, you see those hands again. Yeah. You can almost get. Dude, pull up Florida Panthers kid flexing. What year was that? That's 1994. Okay. So you were what? 13? I was 11 at the time. Wow. Yeah.

And you sold Coke in college, I believe. Oh, my God, yeah. I completely forgot about that. I made like 25 grand, 50 grand, something like that. I walked away with 25 grand. I made 50 grand altogether. Yeah, there I am again. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

Hockey seems like it has a lot of funny shit like that happened. At the Oilers game, that woman took her shirt off and she was like, nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great oil cans. But I was like, man, hockey is – playoff hockey is fucking fun. It's fun. Playoff hockey, yeah. There's so much life in the building. Yes. And, yeah, now it's the Panthers. It's like – but what I was crazy, though, is like you would think like who wants to be a Florida Panthers fan? But there are.

And they have a good fan base. Oh, New Miami, right? Oh, what the fuck is this? Oh, that sucks. You fall for going to New York Times. Yeah. They were going to show the tits on that one. That's toxic. Yeah, come on. You've got to find it on Twitter, dude. That's the only one. Twitter. Let me find this pic. I have it right here. All right. He's got it. You need Matt's number? Or you can send it to me. I'll send it to Matt. Nice. Tits. So you get into Gracie Mansion with your dad.

Yeah, I get into Gracie Mansion with my dad and it was, so the Rangers won the cup. I was at game seven. After the game, I go into locker room, I interview the players. I'm with the cup, watching them all drink the cup. I got a hat signed by the four all-stars of that year, which is Adam Graves, Mike Richter, Mark Messier, and Brian Leach. I was so happy about that. Yeah, amazing. No offense, but I think I'd be like, can we get this fucking kid out of here? Drunk and getting

Yeah, but I was a familiar face. I've been in the locker room so many times with them too. Wow. So then they had the after party and this was the first time my dad wasn't going to get us in because you had to have a special pass. Sure. They weren't letting press in. And my dad...

found a way because some guy came around and you still had rolls of film back in this time. So this guy came around and he asked my dad, he goes, by any chance do you have a roll of film I could have? And my dad goes, yeah, if you could get my son into this party. So I went into this party with this guy who I didn't know. Wow. And then we went into Rangers. You got in? Yeah, after the party. Oh, my God. That's incredible. Because I like that your dad probably took that as a challenge. Oh, he loved it, man. I'm getting in. Hey. Hey, Chaz. Hey.

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Hey, Mark. Hey, I'm Gary. Nice to meet you. So we got cookies, brownies. I don't know if you're hungry. Yeah, espresso brownies. His wife made them. Yeah, yeah.

I'm excited, man. We're fans. Brownies are a little dangerous. Brownies are a little dangerous. Oh, yeah. How can we start on Brownsville? We were just talking last... You weren't on this run, but I did a tour last year. On the bus, we just watch movies every night. Right. And one of the movies we watch is Bullets Over Broadway. Oh, Bullets, yeah. I think it's the funniest Woody Allen movie ever. It's one of his. I thought, you know...

Trying to be a little biased, but I know I'm in it. But if you really listen to the script, it was great what he was saying. It's amazing. About art and about morality and about every artist creates his own universe. It was pretty incredible. Yeah, I really liked it a lot. Yeah. How was working with Woody? Woody's great. You know, people always go, how's it working with him? You know, Woody doesn't talk. He doesn't talk to the actors. And people, if you're not secure as an actor,

It's very, you know, you have to be secure because you walk around, everybody goes, is he like me? Is it okay? But he doesn't talk. In fact, I always tell other actors who come to me and say, hey, I'm going to be working with Woody. I said, if he doesn't talk to you, you're doing great. Right. If he talks to you,

You're in trouble. Yeah. You're in trouble. I remember one time John Cusack and I, we had a very long scene sitting at the bar when I'm talking to him and I'm telling him about how I started killing people, you know, and with the ice pick. It was crazy. And Woody shoots in Masters.

So you got to know your lines. You have to know your lines, otherwise you're in trouble. So him and I, we worked on it, John and I. And then just before we shot, this was his direction.

My hand to God, I'm not lying. Walks over to us and says, I can't do it, buddy. But he goes, wait a minute. Hold on. He always goes, wait a minute. He goes, I got to talk to you guys. And me and John are like, oh, shit. What do we do? And he walks over to us. He says, it's a very long scene. He goes, what?

The Knicks go on at 8. Speed it up. I love that. The Knicks go on at 8. That was a big year. That was 94. I'm actually wearing that tee right there. Speed it up. Damn. Wow. That's what he said. I respect that. But you know what? It was great direction. Yeah. Because it is a very long scene. And it just gave us the feeling of, hey, man, don't hang on these lines. Don't make a meal out of them. Just go. So I thought it was great direction.

Man. I mean, look, we're huge fans. I don't want to geek out too much, but you're a New York guy. Yeah. Bronx Tale. How the hell do you get that in people's hands? Because to me, that's the hardest part of making this business. Oh, that was the easiest part. Come on. How'd you get it to them? Well, you know...

Let me, you know, if you've got a minute for the story. We've got booze. We've got water. I was working. When I was nine years old, I was sitting on a stoop in the Bronx where I grew up. And it was a great neighborhood. I don't want to sound like I lived in this drug-infested ghetto. It was a great, tiny neighborhood, you know. And I was on a stoop, and these cars were, one car was backing in. The other guy looked like he snuck in behind him.

And I'm looking, and I said, oh, shit, man, you know, there's going to be a beef now. And all of a sudden, one guy got out with a baseball bat, came over, smashed the window of the other guy. I feel like I'm doing the play here. Smashed the window of the other guy in the back, and then the guy got out of the car. And he went to hit him again with the bat, and this friend came over, who was a wise guy, came over from the corner and killed the guy with the bat. Right in front, like from me to you. Wow. And I just kind of was staring at it, you know, and I was like, wow. You know, then the next minute, my father dragged me upstairs, and

Then the cops came.

Because they said the kid was, the kid knows who did it. Some people said, yeah, the kid was on the stoop. So the cops came upstairs and I don't know if you saw Brownsteel. Yeah. Oh, so many times. I never really went downstairs. As a writer, I, you know, embellished that lineup scene. Upstairs, my father said, he's not going down. He didn't see nothing. And the guy said, look, I'll never forget his line. He said, I didn't pick his name out of a hat. They said it was him.

And my father said, he didn't see anything. Did you see anything? And I said, I didn't see nothing, Dad. But in the movie, I had a bond, Sonny and I, somehow. But the next day, I was sitting on the stoop, and when Sonny walked by, he looked at me and went, like, I know you know that I know, but you're a good kid. And that's how my relationship started with these guys. I'd go get lunch for them, cigarettes for them. So, cut to...

I had to tell you that. So cut to 30, God knows, years later, 40 years later, whatever, and I'm working as a doorman. I used to bounce because, you know, stand-up comic, you do other things until you hit it. Yeah. I was bouncing, and all of a sudden one day I didn't let this guy in, and the guy came over to me and he said, you're going to be fired in 15 minutes. Really arrogant. Yeah.

And I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. And the guy was Swifty Lazar. Now, you guys are too young to know who Swifty Lazar is. He was the biggest agent in the world. Okay. In the world. And I just did not let him into his own party. Fifteen minutes later, I got fired. Oh, boy. I go back to my shitty apartment in West Hollywood.

And I said, look, I've been acting all these. I mean, I was in the acting studio. I mean, I just couldn't believe I was in this position. So I said, you know what? If they won't give me a great part, I'll write one myself. So I went to my acting theater and I started writing about the monologue.

And five minutes, another 10 minutes, another 15 minutes. But at Stand-Up Comics, you understand, I was workshopping it in front of a live audience. So I would write 10 minutes and take four minutes, write three minutes, take the best of the three minutes. So at the end of almost a year, I had 90 minutes of this one-man show. And then I borrowed money off a friend of mine. I put it up. And guys...

Like you said, how do you get enhanced? It was a, could you curse here? Could I? Yeah, please. It was a fucking rocket. All of a sudden, two weeks later, I get off at $250,000.

What? For the script. But they didn't want me. They wanted to put a star on the role. Sure. Then I said, hey, man, I want to play Sonny, and I want to write it. They said, forget it. I said, okay. I didn't do it. Crowds kept getting bigger. We got to move into a bigger theater. It went from $250,000 to $500,000. $200 in the bank, my hand to God. I kept doing it, doing it. Then they went to $1 million. And again, I said no.

Wow. It's a story in Hollywood. You look it up on Google. Finally, after I turned down the million, about two weeks later, I did the show. And I get upstage and the stage manager walks over and says, hey, Robert De Niro is in your dressing room. He just saw the show. So I said, oh, shit.

So I walk down to my dressing room, and Bob is sitting there, and he's like, yeah, you know. So I said, hey, how you doing? He goes, how are you? He goes, look, I know what's going on in Hollywood. He goes, everybody I know in Hollywood wants this, and I know you get a lot of offers. He goes, and I know...

Nobody wants to take a chance with you. He goes, but I'll tell you what. I think you should play Sonny. You'll be great as Sonny. And you should write it because it's honest. It'll be about your life. He goes, I'll play your father and I'll direct it. And if you shake my hands, that's the way it'll be. I shook his hand and that's how the movie got made. Wow. Did you have people at the time, like an agent saying like million dollars? Were they pressuring you? Yes. And they pressured me saying because all the big...

Sam, all the big directors from that all wanted it. I mean, I don't want to name you because they're friends of mine. Every big director wanted it. And they said, why are you going with De Niro for it? And I said, why am I going with De Niro? They said, he never directed before.

I said, the man did nine movies for Barney's Gosei's. He had to learn something. Were there any other people that were supposed to play you that you could tell us? Yeah, never. There was never any names that they threw around? Well, I could tell you who came to see it, who wanted to play it. Yeah, we'd love to. There was a lot of...

A lot of my friends are mine, man. There's a lot of stars. Well, I can tell you the people who passed. Burt Reynolds wanted to do it. He wanted to do it. I mean, I know Redford was too old at the time. Ray Shark, he wanted to do it. Yeah, I heard Redford was up for Godfather, too. And I was like, Redford? As a Corleone? Too airy. You know who was the big person up for it? More than Redford? Who? Ryan O'Neill. Oh.

The whitewashing of Hollywood. Ryan O'Neal was the number one choice because he just did a love story. Right. I know because I was friends with him. But by the way, so glad that you played Sonny. I mean, it's unbelievable. Yeah. It's the Sylvester Stallone story. It's like, I got to play it. I'm Rocky. Oh, my God. Imagine if someone else was Rocky. I can't imagine that. Yeah. You know, it works out for the way, guys, it works out. Mm-hmm. You know, and-

I just believe that I, you know, people said, how could he turn down a million dollars? And I just said, you know, after the, I gotta be honest with you guys, after the 250, it was easy after that. You know, when you got nothing, you don't know. Yeah. It's not real. You don't know. It's not real. It's numbers to me. It means bullshit.

200, 500, 750. What is it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So it worked out really great, man. Now, it's your story. Did you ever get annoyed with De Niro? I mean, De Niro's a hot shot, big deal. And he's directing your movie. Are you kind of going, eh, Bobby, I don't really care for that take. You know what? That's a very good point. But him and I, we got along great. See, Bob, the thing about De Niro, he's an incredible artist. And the way he is...

I said things that he'd let, he was so collaborative with me. And he said to me, he said a brilliant thing to me. He said, it takes just as much talent to recognize a great idea as it is to come up with it yourself. Ooh. And I, I never, I don't know. I think it's harder to create a thing. Well, yes, but if somebody comes up with an idea and,

Sam and say well in stand-up it's a little different because you never steal someone's joke, right? But if someone comes up at a premise that you say hey, I could write a bit on that Yeah, you know and you write a bit on that but it's not what they said and

That's not stealing. Right. You know, so. I don't want to get too in the weeds here, but I think Hollywood now has a real recognized problem. Absolutely. I feel like they can't see good anymore. They're just going off business and numbers. But they didn't. I mean, De Niro picked this. Although I guess you were getting hit up by everyone. Everyone. Everyone. Everyone.

And that was like a hot time for movies. I feel like the early 90s was like, I feel like the 90s is an underrated decade for great movies. I'm surprised. I would go to the bathroom. It was already.

It was Al Ruddy, who produced The Godfather. And I was taking a leak. I'll never forget it. It was at the Palm Restaurant on Rodeo Drive, and I was taking a leak, and all of a sudden, some guy goes right next to me, he's taking a leak. He goes, listen, now we're pissing now. He goes, I know what's going on, man. I'll give you a check for a million dollars tomorrow. I'm Al Ruddy. I produced The Godfather. And I was like,

I said, well, I really can't talk right. Then he pulled a gun from behind the toilet. That's how bad it was. I mean, it was crazy. You never see anything like it. It was Rocky and then me. Yeah. It was crazy. That's a great shot right there. Great shot. Well, what happened was there was...

You know, De Niro, when I wanted to, you know, if you ever sat in a coffin, it's kind of like unnerving. Why would we ever sit in a coffin? You said that like it's observation. If you were in a movie or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I sat in a coffin and the first 10 minutes was a little eerie, but then it's quite comfortable. So I really laid there, you know.

And I was falling asleep. Yeah. So I kept falling asleep. And we were laughing. He kept going, what the fuck are you doing? And Joe Pesci's there. And Joe's going, hey, I got a better shot. Let this guy dead. What is he doing here? He goes, he's upstaging me with his fucking snoring. So that's why we started laughing over there. That's pretty cool. Well, you know why? Because I was in the coffin for five.

15 hours. What? Because I had to lay there while all the guests came in. And Bob wanted me there. That's Bob De Niro. He wants the realistic... Because by rights, I could have got up and they could have just stared down at a piece of tape. But they were all...

We were the only actors in the movie. They were untrained actors, so he wanted me to be in there. Man, look how happy he was before Trump. Did your father have a lot of the same qualities? Did De Niro take on a lot of the same qualities as your father? De Niro says to my father, to me, he goes, listen, now you've got to picture this now. My father's Sicilian, loved Robert De Niro. He was God in our house, De Niro, right? De Niro tells me, he goes, you know, I'm going to fly your father up from Florida. They lived in Florida. He goes, I want to hang out with him for a month.

I said, what? He goes, yeah. He goes, I want him to talk to me about how he drove the bus. And I said, but nobody knows. You know, if you do a famous person, then you got to do that. But nobody knows my dad. He goes, no, no. It's important that I do that. So I said, Dad, De Niro wants to hang out with you. He goes, whoa, Robert De Niro? I go, yeah.

Flew my mother father up and for a month, he said, I want your father to teach me how to drive a bus. My father taught him. Wow. How we did the changer, you know, when you do the changer. Yeah. He said, and he carried, I get the chills when I think about it. My father had a cushion. He put the cushion under here and if you watch the movie, exactly like that. Wow.

That's unbelievable. Thank God De Niro never played a Nazi. Oh, he would. I mean, God knows. God, because he is. I mean, he's a true method actor. Oh, yeah. For a taxi driver. Oh, sorry. For a taxi driver, De Niro got a hack license and drove a cab for a while. That's it. That's the picture right there. De Niro's got a hack license. Yeah, exactly.

In your home that was like, this is our De Niro movie that we watched the most. Was it Taxi Driver, Mean Streets? Mean Street was the first. My neighborhood, we ever saw that. We were blown away by that. Well, that was the great time for movies. Oh, in the 70s. It was a great time because everything was real then. So real. I remember that movie. Then I saw another movie that he did.

right at that same time called bang the drum slowly and he was great in that too i mean bob is you know you know if you want to say one of the great actors of any generation you would have to say that yes oh yeah yeah definitely he's that great man and then when him and scorsese get together it's really something special it's magic well they have that magic together you know and now leo uh is there with them you know leo's been great with them and

They're all, you know. It's incredible. He's 80. I think 80, 81, Scorsese. And he's still, he just cranked out Flower Moon. Yes. It's incredible. And the movies are getting longer. I know. Every movie now, even like Wolverine Wall Street was like, that was like the pace of that movie for three and a half hours. Yeah. This is crazy. You know, a lot of people don't realize that there's two sets of timing. There's autistic time and then there's real time.

You can watch a movie that's an hour and a half. It feels like three and a half hours. Yes. You can watch a movie that's three and a half hours. It feels like an hour and a half. Mm-hmm. You know, if you watch Goodfellas, The Dancing Wolves, Braveheart, those movies fly. They fly. They're hours. Because autistic time, it feels real. Yeah. I bang my wife for two minutes. It feels real. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Not for her. No. But what were the movies that made you, like, I want to make movies?

Oh, it was On the Waterfront. Oh, I just watched it. We just talked about it because we pulled the clip of Orson Welles trashing Elie Kazam, but then at the end going, but he's a very good director. Yeah. On the Waterfront. It's incredible. Yeah, I mean, that's my favorite movie. I didn't know it was Marnie Scorsese's favorite movie. Oh, I didn't know that either. And De Niro's favorite movie. What? Yes.

Yes. I could have been a contender. It's beautiful, yeah. It's like really... Great script, too. It's a great script. You know, it's funny. I did a movie with Rod Steiger, you know. So I couldn't wait to do it so I could ask him about On the Waterfront. Yeah. So I said, hey, so Rod, when you did the scene in the taxi, you know, I could have been a contender. Tell me about that, you know. I'm like a sponge. I want to hear everything. And he said, well, after Brando did his close-up, he left. I said, what?

You mean you did that? He goes, yeah, I did it to the script supervisor, a young girl. I said, holy shit. You know, Brando did his close-ups, and then he walked off, and he said, all right, that's it, I'm done. And then so Rod Steiger had to do it with the, yeah. Oh, hilarious. And if you see the blinds, the blinds in the back, what happened was, yeah, you see the blinds? Yeah. The first...

They forgot to get the blinds. They forgot to get, what do you call? They didn't have the cars going behind them. They forgot that tape. So all of a sudden, the first AD said, you know, I saw a taxi with blinds once. And Kazan said, put fucking blinds in. Wow. So that's how that happened. Good. Brando is a menace, I heard. If you can find this photo, it's a rare photo, but it's...

Somebody in Godfather is wearing, I think Duvall is wearing cue cards. Right. Because he's got them right here because Brando wouldn't learn his lines. He doesn't like, now he says he likes doing that. I don't know. There it is. Look at that. Oh, wow. He was also flying, I think, to and from because he was in a custody battle or something during that movie. He was doing a red eye, I think, to shoot from New York. Ah. And they weren't even going to pick him. He likes the feeling of, ah.

I don't know. He likes that like it's new, it's fresh. But you could do that by memorizing your lines. Right. You know, he hated acting, you know. Come on. Hated it. Really? Yes. Said he only did it because of the money. What? Yes. I know that's weird, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Because you get these guys like Daniel Day-Lewis. I'm going to be a cobbler. And then they cobble for eight minutes and they go, all right, get me back to Hollywood. Well, Danny Day-Lewis is one of the greats. Sure. Yeah. Agreed. He's one of the greats. But that's a very – that's a true story, man, what Rob said. I was really – but he's like – the cat jumped into his arms. That cat wasn't supposed to be there. Oh, really? It was on the set. And then when the cat –

you know he just said let it and he just painted it that's so funny let it go and he doesn't like acting that's what's crazy just the best you know he really didn't wow he said it but we talk about like hollywood you know not necessarily getting right but like he almost didn't play you know veto it's like across the board it's like they did it so hard yeah they didn't want coppola yeah you know it's like they don't want pacino they didn't want pacino oh hate it al

I talked to Al because I did things with Al, and Al told me that when he killed...

That scene? That was his first... That was like the third scene he did. So when he killed them, they looked at the thing and they said, all right, all right, he could stay. Because he said he was getting fired. Well, they say because he was so short. And I relate to it. So, yeah. I was like, come on. Evans caught him. But he's 5'7". But yeah, he's 5'7". And it's like to make him look tough. They were trying to figure that out. But let me tell you about Bob Evans because I did a movie for Bob Evans.

I love Bob Evans. I love him. He was great. I loved him. This guy can make Harvard root for Yale. He was the best. Wow. He would talk to you. Now, when I did a movie with him, I was around. I've been around. I did a lot of movies. So he'd come over to me and say, Chaz, I've got to talk to you. I said, what's up? What's up, Bob? He goes, I want to tell you something. You are the new Bogart.

The new Bogart for the 90s. And in my mind, I'm going, I don't believe any of this, right? He walks away, then I go, yeah, I could see that. Yeah, you know. I mean, you got to feel pretty good if he says that. That's unbelievable. He would talk about.

He would say things and you'd just be mesmerized. If you saw the movie The Offer, I don't know if you saw it. I loved it. That was Bob Evans. Really? They nailed it. He could walk. Oh, that guy was brilliant. Yeah. He could walk in and just mesmerize a room. Wow.

He was great on the... In Kids' Days in the Picture, the documentary. Yeah. I love when he's on the phone. He's like, you tell that Polack I'm on my way down there. He speaks so old school. Yeah, no, he was... He seemed so cool. Yeah. He was...

I really love him. He was a good guy, man. Oh, yeah. He's such a legend. Yeah. That guy, there was that story that they were trying to get in Chinatown. No, not China. Yeah, it was Chinatown. It was Faye Dunaway. They're trying to get her money down. Oh, cool. And he kept trying to get her money down. With the agent? And he kept saying, Jane Fonda's going to do it. And the agent's like, all right, let me see what I can do. And then she calls back and he goes, she'll do it. He goes, all right. By the way, Jane Fonda was never interested. I'm telling you, this guy...

But, you know, Bill Freakin, the great director who I worked with, said to me, he said, Bob Evans, at that time, had the greatest movie mind of anyone he's ever seen. Well, it's banger after banger. And he took risks. You know, it's like, yeah, people are saying this isn't the right movie. You know, when you get the love story, again, you guys are too young for that, but if you've seen it later, it's like,

When he did love, they said, the girl can't die. The studio's going, the girl can't die at the end. How can you say love when the girl dies? And they didn't want to do it. And they got to shoot another ending. And Bob Evans said, fuck you. The girl dies. He goes, there won't be a dry eye in the house. That's the movie. It's the love they had for each other. And he got his way. And you know what? He was right. OJ said the same thing. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, Rosemary's Baby is a weird movie. Who would have saw that would be a hit? He saw it. I always said, when somebody talks about O.J., who I met, who I knew. But anyway, again, I'm not a comic, guys. But I always said, like, around the dinner table, like Thanksgiving, who's going to cut the turkey? Did everybody get a little, like...

I let OJ cut it. He's got the knife. I always thought about that. He puts on the glove, the glove fits. Yeah. I give the knife to OJ. Yeah, yeah. I'm not talking to him. No, you're great. I love the idea that OJ's having big Thanksgivings. We're going to OJ's. We're going to OJ's. We're going to OJ's. Yeah.

This is amazing. No, we're fascinating. I mean, I love hearing these stories. No, I just got to, after all these years, I got so many stories. We want to hear them all. I love them. I actually, I would love to hear like, so, I mean, certain lines that happen in a Bronx tale that I'm so fascinated by. One is like, now you just can't leave. Now you just can't leave. Like, who came up with that? It was,

I didn't. No. Oh, wow. I was there. I was sitting at the bar when he said it. Oh, wow. At the bar when he said it. So that was an act. That was a real fight. Oh, that was real. Wow. I didn't embellish that. And I'll never forget it because he was very nice to them.

Because they walked in and they spoke very nice when they walked in, I have to be honest. And they said, we've been on the road. They said, we just want a few beers. And Sonny was a good guy. And he just said, yeah, give them their beers. So they gave their beers. And as soon as he walked away,

Like in the movie, they shook it and splashed it. But in real life, they didn't do that. They just said, hey, man, tell you guys, guineas or something. And they just turned the bottles up slightly. Wow. They just turned the bottles up and they drenched the whole bar and the floor. And they all were laughing, you know. And then I was like, oh, shit. You were there for that? I was on the end stool. Wow. And Sonny walked over to him and said, yeah.

Listen, you know, I try to be like a gentleman. You guys took advantage of me. It's not really nice. Now you got to leave. Very nicely. And he was like arrogant. Because they were breaking up bars all around in the Bronx. And they said, fuck you. We ain't leaving. He said something about their colors. You see them colors? Guinea or something like that. And then he said, you fucking make us leave.

And I'm just like, oh, shit. And I see him. Were you worried for them at all? I was looking for a place to go under because I knew any moment the shit was going to happen. I didn't know if guns were going to come out or anything. And he just looked at him, shook his fucking head and walked over. Actually, in the movie, in the movie he walks over. In real life, he just told the guy, he went,

In real life, he just went like that, and the guy just walked over, pulled down the shade. He got this big black shade in the front window. Oh, man. I love it. And then it locked the door, and Sonny just looked in and looked back at him. He said, now you just can't leave. No. Wow. Here it is. Such a good scene. Yeah. And a good-looking Sicilian. See, in the movie, I did it. How did we perform? Oh, really? I did it.

Well, I wanted... We wanted... We liked Come Together because we thought it was very like... Right. Ironic. But we called... Bob De Niro called up and they wanted 40... They wanted 450,000 for 40 seconds. So then Bob called Michael Jackson and Michael gave it to us for 250,000. All right. All right. And then...

The reason why, the original song we had during the fight was Born to be Wild. Ah. Born to be. And, you know, and Bob was like, you know what, I might be, he says, there might be two on the head. Yeah. And I said, yeah, you might be right, Bob. So then we were talking and we were laughing. I said, why don't we go the opposite way?

like a ballad or something. I said, and then I don't know what was one of us. I don't remember who came up with it, but the book of love one, because we figure we play against the comedy and it worked. Can we, can we hear it? I mean, is this going to screw us Peters? Not used currently. I will never forget the look on their faces. True. All eight of them, their faces dropped. All their courage and strength was drained right from their bodies.

Oh, baby. Really? Now, what year did this take? Early 70s?

What, this year? No, like the real life moment. 68. 68, okay. And what were the numbers like? I mean, how many versus how many in real life? Oh, I would say it was probably even. Around even. It was like six, eight against eight, eight against nine. It was pretty close. Yeah. But you see these guys here? His guys, his guys that he had around him. You have to realize something.

These are hardened motherfuckers. Sure. These guys have been in fucking Attica, Sing Sing.

You cannot scare them. Right. And they work for Sonny, and all they do nothing all day is hang with Sonny. So they can't wait. Right, for an opportunity, yeah. They can't wait for an opportunity to show how fucking worthy they are. Yeah, yeah. And it was like letting fucking wild boars out of a cage. Rawr! Wow.

Oh, man. And they decimated him. After they threw them out, the thing that got me was –

They were yelling like Sonny's saying, get their bikes, get their bikes. Their bikes are like God to them. Yeah. They had the bats and they busted the fucking bikes. Damn. Man, oh man. I mean, it was like, you'll fuck with us? You fuck with us? If you want to fuck with us, you better come back and you better kill us. Yeah, right. He said to him, look at my face. I want to make sure you know who fucking did this. My name's Sonny and I'm the guy who did it to you.

Oh, wow. This is another level, guys, of fucking extreme prejudice like you've never seen. Man. Well, they're not going to come back. No, they never did. This won't get reported either, which is kind of nice. They're not going to go to the police because they're healthy. Yeah, what was the cop situation back in the neighborhood where cops just like, I mean, I assume Sonny kept the neighborhood safe like in the movie. They love Sonny. Yeah. Wow. Don't forget, Sonny, there was no drugs there. Right. It was like gambling, loan sharking.

You know, numbers, three, two, one.

There were some guns, though. There was guns. But, you know. It was the kids. But that's why Sonny didn't want no guns. That's why you lose that scene. Right. When he smacks that guy zero. And he says, what the fuck are you doing? Right. He said, you're going to get us pinched around here. You know, he keeps gambling and loan sharking. And he's making a lot of money. Yeah. That's all he wanted to do. Did Sonny die the way you portrayed him dying in your life? Yes, he did. Wow. But I didn't see it. Mm-hmm.

In the movie, I see it. I got there just after he died. I would say I got there maybe 20 minutes, an hour, maybe half hour later, and he was already dead.

So, and there was the guy. So, I just embellished that scene. Right. Yeah. You know, you take life. Liberties, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you don't really see hell. But these are all real events. Right. These are events. Well, similar to comedy. I mean, we do an hour. It's all, Gary just put out a new special. It's every one of your jokes, even though they're one-liners and misdirects, they're all real. Yeah, there's truth and then it goes some, yeah. Yeah, but that's the best comedy, you know. Is that real? Right. You know, we.

When you're talking about that, I was, people go, was Bronx still your first break? I said it was my first big break. My first break is when I got an agent. And that was in 1980 and 83 before I was here, living here. And I got a part and I was understudying on Broadway. And it was great. An agent saw me. I got signed.

And so now I go back to my neighborhood. I haven't made it yet. But I told all my friends, we're going to be on Broadway. We're going to be on fucking Broadway. You know, it's very exciting for a young man. So the wise guys come over to me. The guy at the end of the movie, Carmine, you saw him? Yeah. So he comes over to me and goes, hey, come here, see. I hear you're going to be on Broadway. I go, yeah. He goes, we want to come and see you. We'll go to all the guys. Oh, jeez. I said, no, I was okay with that. I said, great.

They go, when are you going to tell us? Can we come on the weekend? I said, no, no, no. I said, you can't come on the weekend. He says, why not? I said, well, I'm an understudy.

And he goes, what the fuck's an understudy? So I said, well, if something happens to the real guy. Oh, you don't say that to the real guy. If something should happen. Not realizing what I just said. Because I said it as an ad. No, if something happens to the guy, he gets sick or something. Then I go on. And that was it. I walked away and I was talking to my friends at the bar. Three minutes later, he walks over to me.

And he goes, hey, Chaz, come here. You know, they grab your elbow and they go, come here. You know, they give you the elbow walk. It's called the elbow walk, you know. And he walked me over, so I knew something was up. I go, yeah, what's up? He goes, you want to go on? So I say to him, I go, I'm sorry, what do you mean? He goes...

come on you want to go on i go on way he goes broadway then i realized what he said i said no no you can't do that you can't i can't be involved in that you can't do that he goes don't worry we'll make it look like nobody's gonna know it looked like a muggy two three weeks he's in the hospital hey break a leg all right please i said please promise me you won't do this please and he said all right all right i won't do it so that night

I go to the theater. Now, as an understudy, you have to watch every performance because you've got to go on, you know. So I'm sitting there and the understudy, the guy, was such an asshole to me through the whole run. And I'm sitting back there, Sam, and I'm going like this.

you don't know how fucking lucky you are. I said, you are fucking lucky I'm a nice guy. Because right now you'd be in the hospital. And I never forgot that, man. But that's real life. Yeah. And that actor was Stephen Hawking. So before you got here, Gary was telling us about some stories about his father, who was a con man. Right. Did you ever run across any con men ever?

in your early days and how were they treated by the wise guys? Con men. They were all con men. They were all actors. We had a guy, Gary the Thief. I think we call him. He was a little on the nose. This is in the 60s, bro. Remember the gold, you know, they used to have gold chains. So what he would do is he got an overcoat. So he robbed a dummy out of Sears Roebuck.

It was called, we see his robe up to the den. He took the arm off the dummy and he put it in the overcoat, sewed it in and got a glove and sewed it onto the dummy. He put the overcoat on with one arm and then closed it and walked into the store.

And back then, they didn't really have cameras, but they would watch you. And he'd walk in, and the guy would put gold chains. So as the guy put gold chains, Gary would be like this. He'd be looking at him. And if you watched him, you would see his hand and the other hand here. His other hand, he would put through the coat. Wow.

He would put through the code and just take the gold chains. Wow. I mean, you can't. These guys were geniuses. Yeah. I love how on the nose all the nicknames were too. It would be like Gary the Thief. What does he do? Well. Yeah, yeah. Oh.

Oh, come on, man, man. There was this other guy, oh, Jimmy, my friend Jimmy Scalin, God rest his soul, he's dead. But he would rob for you. He would go, but he goes, I'm different. I'm a different thief. He goes, we go shopping together. We walk up Fordham Road. You see something in the window. You say, I want that. I give it to you for a third. We go, how are you going to do that? Don't worry, just let me handle it. And you walk away. He comes walking down. He's stealing somehow. And you pay him a third. Man.

Man. Amazing. It's so simple. So simple. Just come shopping with me, pick it out, and I'll give it to you. Was there anything they looked down upon? They were like, we don't do that. Like, that's the type of crime we don't mess with. Drugs. Drugs were a big one, right? There were drugs there. There were a lot of drugs. There were both there. But there's a funny drug story. They're all dead, so I guess I don't want to say their names. But I walk by, and I see this one guy, Nicky.

He's sitting down. Nicky drug dealer? He's sitting there. And there's two addicts on each side of him like this. My friend, this guy Roy and this guy Charlie. And they're going, come on, Nicky. You can do it. And they got ice and they're putting it on his...

you know, because he OD'd. And they're putting it down as balls. And I said, holy shit, they're going to take this guy to the hospital. He's going to fucking die. Come on, Nicky. Come on, you can do it. You can do it. Right. All of a sudden, all of a sudden I see this. And I'm watching. I go, fuck. I said, Nicky, Nicky's going to die. And all of a sudden, he opens his eyes and he goes, he wakes up and he goes, wow, that was some good shit. I said to myself, you almost fucking died. Yeah. Wait a minute. But here's the caveat. I come back later.

Roy's in the fucking middle. And they got ice on him. I said, you can't be doing this. Are you kidding?

Are you fucking kidding me? Holy shit. You just saw your friend almost die and you take it? Are you fucking kidding? Must be good stuff. Yeah, I guess so. My wife's cookies, great stuff. No, I mean, that's like crazy shit. Other than Bronx Tale, what movie do you get recognized for the most? The Usual Suspects. Of course. That was classic. Well, Bullets over Broadway, of course. And also...

Analyze This. Yeah, that was great. Analyze This. There's some great scenes with De Niro in that, too. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. That was a funny movie. That's a funny movie. Very funny. And Bob was great in that. I thought he was... And he was skeptical about doing that because he said, I don't want to make fun of the characters I play. And I said, Bob, I'll never forget it when I read it. I said, Bob, if you play this part, you and Jim Carrey are going to be fighting over parts. Oh, yeah. I'm telling you, man. I'm telling you. And he was...

And he was great in that. And also Joe Vitarelli, right? Joe Vitarelli, great. He was so funny in that, too. Joe Vitarelli was great in that, man. Yeah, there you go. How was Kevin Spacey? He killed that role. Well, in that scene, I mean, you're talking to him. Kevin was. I did two movies with Kevin. One of the greatest actors I ever worked with. Oh, he's incredible. Kevin in...

uh obviously hurley burley he was brilliant and he was brilliant in the usual suspects the funny thing about the usual suspects i was doing i had i was going on another movie so i only had 10 days to shoot usual suspects i said look i could do it but i only got like eight days to give you and they said we'll figure it out so what they did was the first eight days of the shoot they put me and kevin spacey in a room and we did

All our scenes. Oh, really? That's what I was going to ask, if it was all just there. We just did all our scenes, and then I left, and then they started the whole movie. Did you know this was going to be a cult classic when you were making it? No, no. We all said it's really unique, and it's really different, and if he could put this on screen, what we're reading, it'll be brilliant, and he did. So you knew the ending and everything? Yes. Okay. Well.

Well, I guess you have to because you... Yeah, he gets the... The mug dropping is so iconic. Oh, yeah. We talk about this movie that spoofs it all the time. Oh, yeah. The accused. Right, right, right. It cracks me up. Oh, they spoofed it. Yeah, they spoofed it. Oh, it's one of the great endings. Oh, yeah. It's one of the great endings. And then we'll do... Yeah, do... And wrongfully, yeah. And people always ask me, did you know... I said, listen, I'm in the fucking movie and I don't know who it was. You know? Really? Oh, so you didn't know that. Everybody thought...

Till this day, Gabriel Burns still says, I was Kaiser Sosa. I go, Gabriel, babe, it wasn't you. It was Spacey. It was Spacey. In what world does he believe that? That's crazy. They all thought they were. Oh, really? Yeah.

You know, it was so crazy. I mean, it's so amazing. What a great cast. Yeah, young David Baldwin. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You've seen this? No, this is just so funny. You know, I never saw this. Really? Oh, you'll love this scene. Leslie Nielsen's never not funny. Some great jokes in this. Is that Don Johnson? Yeah, he is funny. I think you've got to back it up a little bit. Is that a problem?

Bad guy. There you go. Smart move. That is funny. This is straight up from the usual suspects. You know, I've never seen Adam Ross from America's Most Wanted. That's who it is. Buzz him.

That's straight up for the usual suspects. Oh, he's reading the bulletin board. Timberdoodle. Oh.

I can't go fishing this afternoon. I've got a big meeting over at Midsom. That's great. Oh, my God. Water skiing accident. That is fucking funny. Freeze, Harrison. Don't move. That is funny. Where's the mug? It's right here. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah, no, they...

I've never seen you around here, Mr. Buzzer. Buzzer Frog. Oh, shit. This is a direct ripoff. But you know what? If you're going to rip something off, rip something off like this. Yeah, yeah.

There it is. Wow, that's fresh. That's classic. That's good shit, man. You gotta ask. You're in The Simpsons. Yeah. Right? No. What?

Oh, shit. It's Joe Mantegna? Come on. Sorry, sorry. He looks like in The Simpsons. No, no. I think that. But that's my... Well, there's a story... I've done a lot of voiceovers, but not this one. Okay, sorry. But they do a Bart episode that kind of feels like a Bronx Tale ripoff a little bit. Yeah. Right? The Fat Tony, the original one, does feel like... Oh, the Fat Tony. They're kind of doing... Oh, Bronx Tale has been... But I take it as an homage. Of course. It doesn't remind me at all. Yeah, Bart the Murderer.

Oh, okay. Yeah, so it doesn't bother me at all, man. All right. I get off on that. How do you feel about a guy like Spacey not being able to work anymore?

Well, you know, he's a great actor. You know, people don't realize, look, I don't know, obviously, any details, but all I know is he was acquitted. Yep. That I know. He was acquitted. He's never been convicted. And all I can say about that time in Hollywood, a lot of people were getting, like, really killed. And they were putting... The problem was, if you did a little something, whatever it was, they would put you in the...

you know, where you were like one of the worst guys altogether. Right. You know, so I think I hope one day that he gets back. I think he deserves to be back. I think he's a brilliant actor. And,

And I think it was a rough time in Hollywood, but we'll see. We'll see what happens. What would his mob nickname be, Mark? What was it? What's that? What would his mob nickname be? Kevin the Touchy? He is a great actor. Al's great, man. Yeah. Oh, yeah. What a hunk. He always has a different 70s movie on his screen. Always. Always. It's always Dog Day. Because he looks like he's on Goodbye or something. I said to Al once, I said, Al, what's the secret to your longevity? And he said, my hair. Ah.

He does have a full head of hair still. That's what he said. Things aren't looking good for me. I'm out. He died next week. He shed my hair. De Niro, too. He's a great guy, great actor, man. Oh, yeah. Oh, amazing. You know, the bigger you are, I believe a lot of big stars...

They're just great guys. You know, it's the people who are not really stars, but they're like pissed off. They're not. Same thing with comics. Yeah. Yeah. Ones that want to be really think they should be up here, but they're not. They're angry. Yeah.

Just like comics are angry. Well, comics are the most angry. Yeah. I mean, whenever a lot of my friends are comics and if I come up with something funny, they'll never laugh. They'll just go, that's funny. We're numb inside. You're numb. Yes. They'll say to you,

That's funny. Who are you friends with? Oh, you're friends with Chris DeStefano. Oh, Chris DeStefano. And you did his sitcom. I did his sitcom. I played his father. That's right. Chris is hilarious. Love Chris. I think there's a... And I've seen... Listen, I'm fans of you guys, too. Thanks, man. Your comedy specials. No, no, no. Those were great on your comedy... Funny, man. Those are funny bits. Well, now you can't leave. No, no. No, I swear that one did...

I was watching some of the podcasts. I saw that one you did about the Greek. I thought that was very funny. A Greek restaurant, the woman ordered a muffin. Oh. I found that so hysterical. That was in Greece. A woman was like mad she couldn't get a muffin. You're in fucking Greece. I was living in St. Thomas in the Virgin Islands in the 70s. Wow. And we would go to this place.

and order food. And they would fuck up the order every day. But I mean, fuck it up to the point you would order a piece of chocolate cake, they bring you a hamburger. Not even close. And we were sitting there one day, this is a funny story, we were sitting there one day

And Will like laughed at me. I was a singer. I was in a rock band back then. And we were laughing. We were talking with each other. And this guy walks in. You could tell he was a guy, two kids, guy from Manhattan. He goes, excuse me, I'd like to order a pastrami sandwich. And the guy's like, yeah, okay. And he goes, I want a pastrami sandwich. I'll forget it. On rye. On rye. Could you heat the bread? I want it sliced paper thin.

slice the pickle and make sure you don't. Sounds like a Jew, by the way. I don't want to. Hey, what do you want? And all of a sudden the guy looks at him and goes, and he turns to the microphone. He goes, one pastrami.

The guy got up and walked out the door. Wow. I'm never going to a brothel in St. Top. You were at the cock, right? Wow. Yeah, that was...

Oh, my God. I went to St. Thomas. I will say the food was not great. No, it wasn't. But, you know, it's beautiful. No, it's gorgeous. But, you know, mostly alcoholics lived there. Oh, yeah. That's why I was there. Mostly alcoholics. It's like Key West. It's all alcoholics. Oh, yes. Exactly. Exactly like Key West. Exactly. No, I love comedy. I love...

I love stand-up comics because I think that's the hardest of all the art forms. I really do. Truthfully, because it's

I mean, because if you do your bit once on television, all right, now I got to do it again. Brand new. I got to do it again. I mean, to me, I mean, again, I'm a lot older than you guys. My favorite comic of all time was Richard Pryor. Sure, yeah. I thought – I always like people who break barriers, and I thought Pryor at that time broke the barrier of what's funny –

and what's a joke and what's real life that's funny. Yes. And I could be, I mean, George Carlin too, in a way. Definitely. But I just thought Pariah was great and...

Well, to make that divorce funny where he leaves his wife's house with the car and he was all high on coke and he freebases coke, he shoots the car tires. To make all that so funny. I mean, that was in the news. That's kind of like the Will Smith slap or Mulaney going to rehab. He did it back then in 77. 70s. Nobody did that. Nobody did that. At the talk when he set himself on fire. Yes, yes.

That was his closer. He uses the closer. He said he was running down the street and some bum said, hey, you got a light? Yeah. That shit is funny, man. Yeah. Cops, they don't shoot cars. They shoot. Yeah. I mean, that shit. So he was my, and I knew Robin really well. Oh, sure. And I thought Robin was great. I mean, I used to say, wow, who could follow Robin Williams, man? I mean, how do you follow that guy? Even if you're great. The only person who followed him was the drug dealer.

I really like it. And the comics of today, I mean, all you guys are great. But, I mean, it's hard for you guys because you've got to be like strapped because you've got to watch out for canceled culture. You can't do this. You can't do that. I mean. I think it's switching back. It's swinging back. And it helps. I think it is swinging back. It helps a little. You know what? I was in the comedy cell and I saw this.

comic there and I've seen him a bunch of times Gary Veeder he's really not a household name but I thought I thought he was great was Dave Attell oh Attell is unbelievable I thought his humor was brilliant he's literally all of our heroes I mean he's like our favorite I thought he was brilliant and one of my favorite comics

who makes me fucking laugh, who I think is brilliant, is Colin Quinn. Oh, yeah. Last week. Actually, Colin and I at the cellar the other night, we were talking about how Bullets Over Broadway is our favorite Woody Allen comedy. I mean, Annie Hall, too, but it's like, for Laugh Out Loud, Bullets Over Broadway, it just gets me, man. It's so funny. There's so many funny lines in it. You know what's funny about Woody is, Woody, you know, he would allow some people to improvise and some people not. So he would always tell me, Chaz, you know,

Just go. And I said, I know, Woody, but what you wrote is funny. And he goes, all right, say it, but we'll do one like that and you just go. I said, okay. So the scene where I kill Olive

And that was all. He said, you do your thing. I said, when I'm walking, I'm in the car, whatever we get, I go, yeah, it's a Moonlight Cruise. That was all improv, you know? When you say, by the way, you're a terrible fucking actress? The actual line was, the actual line was, Olive, you're not ready for Broadway. And then I shoot her. And then I did that. I said, Woody, can I say something else? She goes, say whatever you want, Chaz. So I walk over there and she goes, I'm about to kill. I go, Olive.

Something you have to know, you're a terrible actor. So much funnier. And then I kill her and then I walk away and I go, that fucking voice, like a knife in my heart. He just loved it. And then Diane Weiss kept saying through the movie, don't speak, don't speak. So I said to Woody, I said, Woody, I want to say that line, don't speak. He goes, you can't say the line. That's her line. I said, I know, but I want to say that line. He goes, it doesn't fit. You can't say that line.

Okay, so finally cut to the end of the movie. I do this scene where I get shot and I fall down and he comes on top of me, John Cusack.

And I go, Sylvia Post and say she was pregnant and make a great ending. And I die. I do it like Woody wanted. So then I go, Woody, can I? He goes, we got it. That's a wrap. That was great. I go, please, let me do one more. He goes, we got it. I go, Woody, I'm begging you, one more. And he goes, okay. We shoot again. I lay down. And he's just about to speak, John Cusick. And I go, don't speak. Don't speak.

And I put my hand down at the end. At the end, after I say it, after I tell him about Sylvia Post, and then I die. Yeah. Fucking Woody looks at me and goes, like, you son of a bitch. And you know what? He kept it in. Wow. That's crazy. That's so cool. He kept it in. He seems to have a soft spot for gangsters, Woody does. Yes, he does. Yeah. Very much. I wonder what that is, that he's enamored with it for some reason. I don't know. That's a very, you know, he does have a soft spot.

What's another movie that he has? Small Time Crooks. Broadway Danny Rose. That was a great one. I'm planning a film for him soon. Great film. Do you remember in Annie Hall, the guy's like, hey, I'll be singer over here. That happened, you know. What? That happened? That happened. He told me, he goes, hey, yeah, I saw you on the Johnny Carson. Duh. Duh. That happened to him and he put it in. What I think is so beautiful about that is he's like, I'm

when what's her name shows up what

What's her name? Diane. Diane Keaton. Diane Keaton shows up. He's like, thank God you arrived. I'm with the cast of The Godfather over here. She's in The Godfather. That's right. Good, good catch. That's awesome. Damn. Wow. You know, I never caught that. Thank you. Me neither. Was she in The Godfather at the time? Yeah, of course. Yeah, she was in the first one. After The Godfather. No, I'm saying that was. She was in Godfather 1. But when was Annie Hall? 76. Oh, that was 76. Yeah.

Holy shit. Good cast. Never realized that. Cast of the Godfather. He must have known. I mean, obviously. I wonder if he realized. He had to. He had. Yeah. I think it's probably part of the joke. Woody is a classic, man. Oh, yeah. Great comic.

Great. It was amazing. Still holds up. You know, the stand-up, I saw, I was listening, because I tell you, I'm a fanatic with stand-up. I love to listen. And I listened to one of his stand-ups on record, and he was doing a, he goes, yeah, I came from a very poor home. He goes, we went to the...

We went to a handicapped place to get a pet. My dog stuttered. You know, funny, you know? And I said, this is funny shit. He goes, I go to a rabbi. He's reformed. He's a Nazi. No, he's great. He's great. I love Woody, man. Woody is...

You know, I've been very fortunate. I worked with a lot of great directors and actors over the years. Yeah, I read his biography. Stage fright. His manager had to push him, literally push him on stage. He would throw up and everything. He just did not want to be in front of me. I know a lot of actors who are great actors who have that.

who have that you know and uh i never had that i'm i wonder if the stage fright i mean especially for woody i mean when he goes out there that helps him just you know it's like you can yeah you use that and it kind of present yeah he's more comfortable on stage on camera than he is off camera camera right he is i mean i i was flying with him to uh on a private jet with him and his wife and me and and me and

Was my wife? Yes, my wife was with me at the time. And he was, and through the whole, the thing about him was he reads all the time. You never see him without his face in a book. And I thought I was going to be able on the private plane to talk, you know, to say, well, when you did this, tell me about it. Because I'm a fanatic about film and about history and about, I want to know everything, every story.

But I really didn't talk with him a lot on the plane because he read and I didn't want to interrupt him, you know. Yeah, yeah. And he was like that. So I didn't want to bother him. And I think he reads because he gets ideas. Think about it. He's on Epstein's plane. He's like, will you put the book down? I want a story. Think about it. He's editing a movie, one movie.

while he's shooting another movie and writing another movie. I don't understand how that even works. How do you do that? He's probably the most prolific filmmaker of our lifetime. Absolutely, yeah. So I said to him, I go, Woody, you know, I got to be honest. So a few times I did get a chance to talk with him. I said, how do you judge all the work? I said, you're going to be probably directed 80, 90 movies by the time. Yeah.

And he said, you know, Chaz, I look at it this way. If I direct 80 movies, 90 movies, he goes, all I care about, maybe 10 will be great. They'll say it's great. Maybe another 20 will be, yeah, they're good. Maybe another 20 will be like, eh, they were okay. And maybe another 20 will suck.

He goes, it's not about that. He goes, you just put it out there. You put it out there and let time and art judge it. Interesting. One of the things I read back when he was doing standup would say that, uh, he would say that he would, uh, say a new joke on a Saturday night because that's the best time to do it. Cause he got it. It was be packed house. Try that. Uh,

that new joke right in the, you know, the middle of your set to really get a good reaction. And the only way you know it, if it's going to work is in that setting. That makes sense. Yeah. I got a question for you guys. Do you ever have a joke? You say, you know, this is a great bit and you do the bit.

And it bombs for whatever reason. Well, we could think it's a great bit, but if it just never works, is it a great bit? Do you try it again, but different? You rewrite it? Yeah. He's the king of that. Mark will hone a joke to death. You don't give up on bits. No. I had one actually I ran by you years ago that I think I just got to hit over. Hey!

It's funny how some bits come back. They stick in the back of your mind. The premise of the joke was basically like, I say, if you're a guy in a relationship, you think you should always be able to have sex. And your girlfriend will say, I look at sex in a relationship like Wi-Fi. We should always be able to get on. And the woman is like, well, I don't owe you sex. I'm like, yeah, but you're my only provider.

Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Perfect, yeah. So then what do you do? You take her out to dinner. That's like customer service, right? Oh! Turn them on. Great. So then that's like the reset. They say reset your router. So while you're out at dinner, you're like, are you turned on yet? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because if you're not, I think I'm going to have to try to steal my neighbors. Oh!

Maybe twist the neighbors. Right, right. That's good stuff. Ran that by you fucking maybe four or five years ago, and it was just in a Word doc. I'm like, I got to try it. So I was in Lexington, and I was like, try it, hit. Boom. Bunch in between, but I got that one, I think. Right. There you go. I'll tweak the neighbor part, but it's something there. Yeah, that's great. I learned that when I was with this group called the New York Comedy Plays in the 70s, and we were an improv group, and there was this bit Tom Wilson, I'll never forget, he passed on.

uh he was a great actor and a great writer and he passed out of aids a great wonderful actor and he wrote this bit about marlon brando was a acting teacher and i played brando and he was the student not that time was it that's almost from biff no and i said tom this is not funny you know i don't think so we did it and it bombed bomb and then we did it again and by he goes let me rewrite it he rewrote it and we did it again and it was like

you know, it was a little funny. Do you know this fucking guy kept working on it and he actually made it funny? And I never forgot that. As a writer myself, I said...

Sometimes you got to just hang in there. Yeah. There are times you just got to let it go. Well, this is what I don't get is when Hollywood says that something's not good, they'll be like, oh, like they'll give you notes on something and then it'll be like, all right, this isn't going to work. But it's like we just rewrote it. We could rewrite it again. The same idea that, you know, got this meeting. So why can't we come back to the same idea? No, they don't understand the process of like, all right, maybe this doesn't work.

but we could get it to work. Get it to work. That's why stand up is great because no one gets in our way. Right. Except the audience is it. The audience is a part of the editing, which is like, of course it's collaborative. It's kind of awesome that like, right. I did five shows in Kentucky over the weekend and like,

And one of the door guys was like, I see that you're making notes throughout the show. I was like, yeah, you have to, you know. But it's fun. It's like exciting to go up there and kind of bomb a little bit because you know you're bombing for a reason. You're not just bombing. You're doing it to get to the jokes. It's a puzzle. You get better every time. I remember when I did a movie with Chris Rock, who I know very well. Great comic. It was kind of like a redo of the Burt Reynolds one, Heaven Can Ain't—

Can wait, right? Yes. Down to Earth. Yes. Oh, Down to Earth. Yeah. And I said to him once, I said, Chris, I remember we were eating lunch. I said, did you have a bomb? He goes, I

everybody bomb like it was fascinating to me the way he said he goes we all bomb yeah everybody bombs so i said well what's the main thing a comic's got because i'm intrigued about comedians i said what's the main thing comics got to learn and he said to me he goes i forget he says don't be afraid of the silence he said don't be afraid of the silence just go and i was fascinated with that when i you know because

I love the art form, and I always like to learn it. Well, he's one of our favorites. We all love Chris Rock. And I used to see him go up at the cellar, and he would bring a legal pad, and he would get silenced the whole time. And I remember being a young comic like, that's weird. It's like one of my heroes is bombing for 20 minutes. And then I would see him the next night killing with the same material because he added something to it. He added a little more energy to it. He had his delivery down.

and that was a big learning experience for me. But Rock at the Cellar is my favorite because it's him. He's not doing the performance, really. He's just trying the jokes. It's like bare-bones Rock. It's awesome to see him in a theater or an arena, too, but at the Cellar, it's so cool to see a comic like that, his mind at work, because he's so good with current events, with social commentary, and he's so good at appealing to the entire country.

Which is kind of lost now. Good point. Social commentary in a way where like everyone is laughing. Well, he has such a good angle. I remember he had a joke years ago, decades ago about Hillary Clinton running. I guess it was decades, but it was a while ago when she was running and it was like, hey, Hillary Clinton, why would you want to work at a place you got cheated on?

If I got cheated on at Red Lobster, I wouldn't go want to work at Red Lobster. And I was like, but that's a take everyone can get behind. But it's about a presidential candidate. But it's really about relationships. And that's the genius of Chris Rock. Yeah, I mean, we were having lunch one day and John John Kennedy just died in the plane crash. Junior. Junior. And I said to him, I said, wow. I said, Chris.

I said, what the fuck? You got all that money. I mean, just hire a fucking pilot. And I really meant that. I was really, I didn't mean to be, I didn't want to be funny. That's funny, yeah. I said, you got all the money, hire a fucking pilot. What's the big deal? And without missing a fucking beat, we're eating. And he said, Chaz, all you got to do is walk across the street. There's an airport with his fucking name on it. Ah!

That's fucking great. Unbelievable. That's hilarious. He said, you know, when he died, we all got a little bit cuter. Handsome man. If I was gay, if I was going gay, I'd go JFK Jr. Not the most handsome man you ever fucking saw. I was like 10 when he died. I was like, that's a hot guy. Yeah, same. There's a photo of him shirtless. He came over to me at a restaurant.

no the uh the uh the mayor of dicamo said uh john kenny would like to meet you he's a big fan of yours and i said he wants to meet me i go yeah he wants to come over i go yeah so he came over and i stood up and i shook his hand i looked at him i go

This motherfucker is perfect. I mean, his hair had hair. Beautiful head of hair. I mean, gorgeous. I mean, gorgeous. Gorgeous. I mean, you know what? I was like, oh, my God. Is that his son? Who's that kid? No, he didn't have a kid.

Gay grandson. All right, so there's hope for me. Coming to HBO Max. This is Johnny the homo. All right. Look at that guy on the left. I mean, come on. Yeah. That's a good looking guy. Look at that guy with his shirt off.

Well, they were having problems, him and the wife. He would be running for president. Oh, yeah. I'd vote for him. You got to vote for him just on looks alone. Yeah, no, you do. Really, come on. Look at that. The shark fin tooth.

QAnon is still being seen live. I mean, is there anything that's wrong with the guy? Yeah. Good looks get you a long way. Look at me. He sounds like a gay showy. I mean, I'm puffing up at guys. He sounds like a gay showy. He's perfect. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Motherfucker's perfect. He's a 10. Everybody take off your pants. You know what's funny about growing up in my neighborhood? When you grew up in my neighborhood, if you said, oh, yeah, you know, that guy Joey, yeah, he's like, hey, that guy's a good looking guy.

Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Here we get this. Suck his dick. Yeah. What do you want to do? Yeah, times have changed. Now it's all about the gay jokes. But statistically, somebody in that crew had to be gay. Yeah. Statistically. Most likely. I don't know about that. All right. Yeah. Well, we've definitely had a gay president. Speaking of gay, you're making me think of the Sopranos now. Did the Sopranos ever hit you up to come on? Oh, yeah. It's a great story about the Sopranos. I was...

I wasn't first to be offered, so let me clarify that. But I was offered in 1997 the role of Tony Soprano. What? Whoa! But there were people ahead of me that got offered. Let me be honest, there was...

Ray Liotta was offered a place. And a few other people turned it down. Then they got to me. And again, and I said, I couldn't do it at that time because I was making movies. And I read the script. I loved it. I thought it was a great pilot. But I just didn't want to do television at the time. So I said no. And eventually it went to the guy who should have been playing it all along was Jimmy Gandolfini, who was brilliant. He was the best Tony's. Incredible. That anybody could have been.

And so after that, I just never got off at another part. I thought maybe David was upset with me, but I just couldn't do it at that time. And, you know, I was never on it, no. Yeah, wow. I think me and John Turturro are the only two Italians that were never on it. Well, the kid who played you in the movie is on Sopranos. He was on Sopranos. Yeah, season two. I can't remember his super whoppy name. I can't remember his name.

Yes. I'm half Italian. Are you half Italian? Yeah, well, I'm half Sicilian. Oh, come on. I'm 100% Sicilian. Wow. Really? You're half Sicilian? Oh, yeah.

Shit, man. Everyone thinks you're Jewish, though. I know. Kentucky's like, Mark's not Jewish? I'm half French. Before you got here, you were saying he was half Jewish. It matters who you are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I'm half Jewish. The rabbi came to my show in Kentucky and he goes, Mark's not Jewish? I was like, not Jewish. Everyone thinks you are. But you're Jewish. I am, yeah. Yeah, same. Jewish comics are great. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, why is it only, it's only, well, it's more now. I mean,

I mean, I got to be honest with you. I listened to, but maybe it was because of the time. I was listening to Freddie Prinze's comedy. Now I'm listening to it now, and it's not that funny now. It doesn't hold up. I don't really know. I never got into it. I mean, he died at 21, right? It doesn't hold up. But he was huge in the 70s. Yeah, big. No one did that before that. He was cool and cool and cute, but I wouldn't say super funny. Like Richard Pryor's comedy still holds up.

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. What are you feeling? Carlin Dangerfield. Carlin Dangerfield. Yeah. I asked Chris Rock once. I said, who do you think is the hottest person to follow?

Who do you think is the hottest person to follow? In L.I.V.E. or in L.L.I.V.E.? L.L.I.V.E. Jeez. I mean, the funny thing is like really famous guys in the cellar aren't that hard to follow because they're usually coming to work out. Right. So that's like the only time really following them. So it would be someone that you maybe haven't heard of. You know who he said? Dangerfield. Oh. Chris said Dangerfield is the hottest guy to follow. He said he would come out and just tear the place up. Wow. But not that he was afraid to follow him. He would follow him.

But he- Following Rocket, the seller's great because I feel like the crowd's just in a great mood. Yeah. They're not- They're kind of like, oh- They're happy to see him. They're like, oh, shit. Some of us are here on vacation. Now we're playing with house money. Like, whoever- Right. Yeah, we're good. We're in a good mood. So in other words, when you guys are working on your set, you know some of it's going to bomb, right? Yeah.

If you're working out, yeah. If you're working on it for a special. Yes. Okay. But that takes a lot of self-confidence to say, some of these people have never seen me before, but I'm willing to bomb in front of them for my art. Yeah. Is that correct? It's the only thing we're confident in.

Everything else is a sham. Well, you've got to have a lot of humility to bomb. Look, there are some comics who don't write, and they just play the hits for years, and they don't want to bomb. Short money. They always kill, but yeah, short money. It's not a...

fulfilling life, I don't think. Trying something new is very hard. I mean, you're in the middle of set, it's going well, and you're like, oh, the new one's coming up right now. Are they going to hate me and this is going to bomb right after? You know, is it too mean? But you got to say it because then you got to figure it out. Here's the question I like to ask all three of you. It's funny. And that is, as a writer, if you have your whole bit, you know what you're going to close with.

But the bit right before the last bit is so fucking funny, it tears the house down. Do you walk off then? I've had this on The Tonight Show. The second to last bit killed. Got an applause break. And I did the last bit, and it wasn't as good as the one before it, and I regretted it. You know, it's funny. Every comic I speak to goes, nah, I got to do the end. I did it. You got to do it? They go...

me, I leave. You push the luck, but at the same time in your head, you're thinking, damn, that was such a good bit that I just said. As you're saying that last bit and you're hoping that it's going to be hard to top it, especially if that second pick killed. It is. It is gambling. I could win another hand.

Yeah. That's exactly what they say. You guys have that thing, man. But that's what makes you who you are, man. Roll the dice again. And you want to share these bits. So it's like, you like that one? Here's the last one that I know is even better than that one. Watch this one. Yeah. Oh, dude, we do that. We are delusional. I mean, if I see a comic bombing on stage, I'm like, I'll get him. Right.

You know what I mean? Like, I'm like, it's like, they're funny, but they're not resonating for some reason. I'll connect. And then you go up and bomb too. It's like, sometimes, sometimes it's the crowd, man. I went up to Village Underground last night and like, I did fine, but I was like, they're not good. And I got off and the host was like, they've been horrible all night. And I was like, all right. Is a lot of it the audience or is it you? Mostly you. Yeah.

It can be the audience for sure. Yeah. Look, if you're on the road and it's your crowd and you're bombing, it's you. Right. But if you're in like this comedy cellar, I think the crowd is usually great there, but it's been... It's usually great there. I've had a couple rough ones. I think that at the clubs where it's like you guys where your fans aren't...

aren't necessarily there just to see you. These people are coming to their first comedy show ever. It's like hitting a jukebox and hoping that you're going to like the song. Like they don't necessarily know. I mean, they're say they're comedy fans, but are they a comedy? Like, are they going to be liking your comedy? You don't know. Because comedy, unlike, you know, there's a blues club, there's a jazz club, there's a rock club. Comedy is comedy.

Comedy. So it could be dirty, clean, props, sound effects, you know, whatever, musical comedy. So that's the hard part of it. You got to be broad enough to hit everybody, but not also original.

at the same time. Right. I always tell people, listen, if you can make people laugh, that is an art. Oh, yeah. You know, I mean, some people, you know, some people, some comics are very clean. Look, Jerry Steinfeld is very clean, but he's very funny. Sure. He's very fucking funny. But it's also tough with comedy because a fat guy falling down stairs

my dad farting or a mentally challenged guy is funnier than me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm trying to be funny writing shit down. You actually just lost a week into a mental challenge. Yeah. So that's what's hard about, no fat guy farting is doing Beethoven, you know. Right, right. Or Led Zeppelin. I always say like,

You know, when people refer to stand-up as an art, I'm like, it's the only art form where the host is literally asking number one or number two as people are going to the bathroom. Yeah, yeah. Is it an art form? I mean, it's entertainment. I think we're entertainers. I think calling stand-up an art form, I love it, but like... But that Wi-Fi joke, that's art. That's art. That fart guy...

I do think the word art sounds pretentious and stand-up has to be anti. Yeah, I agree. A stand-up referring to themselves as an artist, you're like, there's no way that guy's going to be funny. No, 100%. I love when I write, obviously I write scripts, and I love writing funny stuff. And I'm one that

If you get a stand-up guy... A lot of stand-up comics... I shouldn't say a lot. Majority, some, are not good actors. Yes. They're just not. Ain't that the truth. Some can make the switch. Some can. Romano did it. Ray Romano did it. Robin Williams did it. Yes. Richard Pryor did it. Pryor. You know, some really can make the switch. Some can't. And for me, for me, like sometimes you'll see him...

You know he's laying on the joke and it's not him. He's not the character. Right, right. So I'm always wary of that. But if you get a stand-up comic who really is a good actor, boy, that's like writing Secretariat. I just want to – like I'm the jockey and I just want to write shit for him, man.

Oh, wow. Yeah. And if you could do it, and as a writer and as a director, if you could do it better than I gave it to you, do it. Yeah. Do it. In Breaking Bad, Vince Gilligan picked Burr. He picked LaVell Crawford because he's like a love cop. Bill Burr's a terrific actor. Yeah. And Bill is funny as shit. One of the best. Bill is one of my favorite men. Again, he's like...

And I know he gets mad when I say this. You know, prior... Bill gets mad? He doesn't get mad, but he goes, you know, he's very humble, but he's very great.

I thought the way he talks about women and domestic violence and gets away with it. Brilliant. And it's so fucking likable. It's brilliant. He's one of the best comics of all time. Absolutely. He's like one of my favorite men. And so I go, holy shit, how does he get away with that? Yeah. The writing. Yeah. It's the joke. It's the way he says it. Yes. But also, let me tell you something right now. People have an aura about them.

You guys have an aura about them. Either you're likable or you're not. That's something that you cannot change. I don't give a shit how good you are as an actor. If you're not likable,

it's very hard to connect with that person yeah because you're looking at him going i just don't like this fucking guy yeah yeah i don't care he's funny yeah we're working on it yeah yeah no i i go on stage now i have a joke that i'm working out about like people just don't like you when they just see that you're bald right away like they just see it and just they just there's something to

No, but you're funny. So I try and warm them up to that. I don't want to be like Putin. People don't like him because he's bald. Somebody said the other day, I liked you more when you had hair. It was my wife, Allie. Like that. Just stuff like that. Smart. Yeah, but there's some truth to it, but it also then warms them up. So you kind of need bits like that to get them on your side. Well, it's also showing that you're aware of what they're thinking. Yeah. Which goes a long way with a crowd. You're perceptive.

I really want to invite you guys. I hope you can come. Well, I know you're probably out of town, but June 13th,

June 13th, which is coming. That's right. I'm doing my one-man show, which is the movie. I do a Bronx Tale. I do a Bronx Tale on stage by myself. That's what I wrote. And I filmed it because I felt it was time to do it. And I'd love to invite all three of you with your wives and your girlfriends. If you can make it, great. You're out of town. Am I? If you can't, I'd love for you to see it because...

Again, it's not stand-up. I actually do a movie on stage by myself. Really? And I play all 18 parts. Whoa! I play De Niro, the father, the kid. I want to see this. I'll watch it. It's really... Chris is coming, Chris DiStefano. Oh, nice. I think Colin's going to come. Colin saw it already. But if you could come and see it... I would love to. Because, again, it's my...

It's something special to me. Of course. And it's the thing that broke me and made me a star. Incredible. And it's going to be at the Tribeca Film Festival, De Niro Con, June 13th. Oh, wow. For tickets, you guys don't need tickets, but for tickets you can go to tribecafilm.com slash denarocon. Beautiful. Or you can go to my website, chaspalmateri.net.

Or my Instagram, and all the information is on there. Love it. Or my podcast. Yeah. I'd love to have you guys as guests on my podcast. Oh, I'd be honored. I'd love it. I'm sorry I talk a lot. We love it. No, unbelievable. I always go, you know, I tend to like...

I talk like I just talk. You know what I mean? But you guys are great, man. You're awesome. You're great. I love to pick up minds. This is a great app. All right. You know, really. Chaz, you'll be in Naples, Florida? Wow. I was just trashing Naples. We were just trashing Naples. Oh, yeah, that's right. I'm going to be at the... Oh, God, I wish I had my schedule there. I'm going to be at the Cabot Theater...

Two nights, seven in the night. Those are both sold out, but I've been very fortunate. We have a theater, the Mayo Performing Arts Center on 615, 623, the Paramount Theater in Huntington. Oh, great theater. Yeah, it's beautiful. That's where I filmed the show. Oh, nice. Carnegie Homestead Music Hall in Montpellier in Pittsburgh.

And then Buffalo on 927. Michigan. So this is all the one-man show. We did that Carnegie venue. It was really nice. Yeah. I really love the Paramount. That's a great thing. Great room. You guys do that, right? That's your neck of the woods. I love it.

This will get better eventually. I got a few days with Sam coming up too. You got new material? Yeah, I got new material. I got new at least like 40-ish. Wow. That's impressive. The new special is amazing and check out the podcast.

What's the name of the podcast? The podcast is called Number One Dad. So it's all about my dad being a con man. And we haven't spoken in 24 years. So it follows me on a path to hopefully track him down. See what he's up to. When you do a special, Gary, when you guys do a special, does that make people want to come and see you live? It's a big commercial. Yeah.

for your ass. It's like a trailer to see us on the road. That's the hope. And then, you know, but then you have to write a new, my special is coming out, I can say now, I guess July 9th on Amazon. So I hope you guys all watch it. Yeah. It's my favorite one I've done a long time. So I hope you watch it. And, uh,

Do we have a title? Yeah, it's called You've Changed. Ooh. Love it. Yeah. Nice. It's a good one. I'm proud of it. So I hope you check it out. Yeah. Amazon, July 9th. You got it. At the end, we'll exchange information because whenever you're in town, you're going to be at the Comedy Cell. I always tell Chris that. Oh, please. Yeah. I always tell Chris. I see him there all the time. Yeah. I said, just send me a thing. You're going to be there. I'm probably busy, but...

I love to shoot down and just watch because I love it. I love comedy. Yeah, we need people like you. No, I love stand-up. These are Sam's dates here. Oh, yeah. I'm out with Bert and then Atlantic City with Chris DiStefano. We're co-headliners. Oh, great. Caesar's in Atlantic City.

Then I got Rochester with Gary's going to be there with me. I'll be at AC2 with you. You'll be in AC2. That's true. Hammond, Indiana. That's also with Chrissy D and Nemesh. We're doing some dates. Fantastic. Then we got Miami Improv working back, building an hour. Another casino with Chrissy.

Chrissy and I doing a bunch of dates. Yeah, he's going to be there June 13th. We're both building back up. So yeah, then we got Baltimore with Gary. Yeah, I'll do that. And then Niagara Falls with Chrissy. And then I go to Europe. So London, Belfast, Dublin, Paris, Amsterdam, which is almost, I think Amsterdam sold out already. So Copenhagen, Oslo, Stockholm. And I, uh,

might add some more so we'll see but how do you like being in europe today is it same humor did they get it you know i've never he just did a euro i've never done a full tour i've only done like london the only international we did ireland together one yeah but yeah we i haven't done it a ton so it's new to me it i will say it's all great but amsterdam is a lot of like they wait till you're done with the bit and then they go

So be prepared. Like SeaWorld. Wow. The guy told me before I showed up there was two huge acts, I'm not going to say their names, and they both yelled at the crowd like, fuck you guys, you don't get it, this stuff kills. And the guy had to be like, this is how we do it here. So be prepared. I feel like in Europe jokes just, I mean, I've done it, but jokes will just work better. Like the way that you guys tell jokes. They're probably kinder. Yeah. Yeah, and they don't have a lot of good joke writers. Nobody wants to.

They're seeing something different. I mean, you guys bring something different to the table. Well, we invented it. It's an American art. Suck it, you limeys. Bring that American pretension overseas. They'll love that. Well, you guys invented it. Do you guys ever work on bits on the podcast? Oh, yeah, all the time. Yeah, I do that with my podcast. Oh, really? Yeah, not comedy, you know, just...

When I'm talking to the guests, I'll say, well, you know, this could be... I'm writing something. I wonder... You know, I'll just kind of like go around it to try to get something. Ah, I love it. All right. You know, it's...

But the great thing about comics, I remember from Chris, he always told me, and all the guys always told me, the biggest sin you could do is steal jokes. The worst. That's the worst. I mean, that's low. Yeah, because it's all we have. You're thinking really short game if you're doing that, because you want allies, and not just in comedy, but in the world. You want people to not hate you, and they're going to hate you. And you want your voice and perspective. Right, and you think nobody's going to hear it, but they'll find out. Oh, yeah. It's just a...

It's a shortcut, and you can't really have shortcuts in this. Right. Would you agree that it takes, before you really start making money and being good, 10 years to be a comic? Yeah, I'd say so. Probably. Give or take. They say 7 to 10. Probably less now with social media. Yeah. But a good comic. But when we started, yeah. You can discover it easier now, maybe with the internet, but I think if you really want to...

yeah yeah if you want to get good i think there's something about doing poorly for years yeah just make i mean it puts you at the grind and it gets you better so i think that gets a little lost now but i mean the art i get the art i think there's an art there's an art to getting better there's an art to getting better it is do you feel like you're the best you've ever been as an actor or writer right now yes that's cool i think it's the best i've ever been in the best see as an actor as an actor it's different as an actor you

and I studied again and I always bring him up because he was one of the great teachers Lee Strasberg himself wow I was in the actor's studio and so what Lee used to say what happens is as the years go on you get oh that's a valve you get that valve and you put it here right oh

Oh, that's another valve. So then as an actor, you have all these valves inside of you that I could turn on at any time. I could go from dead crying to dead fucking angry in two seconds. Really? Oh, in two seconds. Man. I could do it. I could look like I love you and then look like I hate you. I love that. You know, but that's...

It's like an art. You could just do it. Now, it doesn't come easy. Yeah. And it really helped me to do, when I started doing Bronx Tale, because I had to do all these characters and I had to split the difference on each one of them.

One person playing five people. So it was really like, you know, you have to do that. Oh, yeah. And it really helped me a great deal. But I think I'm the best. I feel I'm the best I am. And my great work is in front of me. That's incredible. All right. Well, we'll keep going. And there he is. Look at that Lee. Yes. Wow. Looks like Pablo Picasso. That's the Godfather. Yeah. Yeah. That's what he said. He goes, if I wake up in the morning...

And I have, and the bag is here, I have a partner. If I don't, then I don't have a partner. What do you think he's doing there? I've seen that a million times. I know he's sick, but he keeps doing this thing. He does that, yeah. What is that? He just, you know.

It's a, it's, he just, when you're old, sometimes your throat gets clogged. Okay. Cause that's a clear choice he made. He's the teacher of all teachers. And I'm like, I don't get this. That was a choice. Cause that's happening to Matt right now. He just wants to know if he should get a check down. I remember I did a scene with, I did a scene with Bob. And in the beginning I used to go, listen to me, huh? I'm going to tell you something right now. If you fucking come here one more time, huh? And he says, Chaz, stop at the Yarns. Huh?

And I said, oh, I don't even realize I was doing it. He goes, it deflates the power of the scene. So I'll never forget that. Good note. So I use it when I have to use it. If it's one line, but if it's more than that, I won't.

do that anymore. Huh? Yeah? Huh? It's an Italian thing that they do. Yeah, yeah. Are we going to go? Huh? Italians are the only people, you know. What's a, you know, a Tara Conestresi, who I love, she's an Italian comic. She always said, Italians are the only, I don't want to take a joke because it's a joke. Italian guys are the only ones that ask you a question and then they answer it. Ah.

She's right. You love this restaurant, right? I know you do. Right? Yeah. Colin Quinn. You know that guy. He's a scumbag, right? Yeah, he's a scumbag. And that's Tara's joke. She said that to me once. I saw it. That's great. It's hysterical. I love the one where they're like, am I right or am I right? Am I right or am I right? You're not giving me options here. Right. Yeah, Italians are the only ones that do that. You know, you used to have this restaurant called...

was it the full the half moon at the time they would go I used to bring girls in there back in the 60s and they would order something and she would only eat half and the guy come back the way to go smell you don't like it no it was delicious no you didn't like it why you bring it here if she doesn't like it and I'm like hey I'll never forget his name was Serge I

I said, Serge, you know, she said, never mind that. You shouldn't be here if you don't. I said, holy. Geez. Can't bring anybody here. A little aggressive. Quinn has that great joke about Italians are the toughest people, but they're pussies about weird stuff. You know, he's like, hey, what's up, bitch? Whoa, what is that, yogurt? Wow. That's good. That's so good. Yes, it's true. Yeah. It's true. Hey, I don't want to be around these people. Oh, my God. Everybody's like.

fucking Italians are nuts. They're like, Italians are the only fucking people, man, that just, that my mother, let me tell you something about my mother. My mother and father, I was with my grandmother, she lived underneath us. This is how Sicilians are. You should know this. You should know this. Sicilians are like this. My grandmother said, you know, she said, honey, go in there, give me some ice cubes. And I opened up the freezer. Back then, you had to

The ice cubes, you had to pull this thing to get the... Oh, I remember that. Remember that? Yeah. So I'm about to pull it. She goes, no, don't touch that. I said, Grandma, what's the matter? She goes, what? Look. And I looked at all the ice and had all these pieces of paper sticking out of the cubes. I said, what the fuck is this, right? She goes, put that one back. Take the other one. So I take the other ice cube and I detray and I give it out. So I go upstairs to my mother. Now I'm fucking 12. I'm like 12 years old. I go, hey, Mom.

What's with the ice cubes? I've tried. You didn't touch the ice cubes, did you? I said, no. What's with the ice cubes? Her father, my grandfather, who's Sicilian, when somebody hurt him, he would write their name on a piece of paper and then put it in the liquid. He said once he did that, he froze them for life. They can never get ahead no more. That means where they are, that's where they stay. It froze them.

How's that? You want to talk about fucking vendettas? You want to talk about vendettas? This is real shit. Yeah, yeah. Man. I couldn't write that. No, that's gold. That's gold. I'm waiting for the movie to put that in. That's killer. But that's the truth, man. He would defrost it, put a new thing of water, put new names in, freeze them. Man. Stuck. Stuck.

Talk about a relationship on the rocks. I'm not going to do that joke in Philadelphia or Pittsburgh. Washington, Spokane, Baton Rouge, Pensacola, Sioux Falls, Cedar Rapids, Rockford, Rochester. Buy some Bodega Cat. Oh, we're legal now. Bodega Cat Whiskey. New York City. So I think we're at the cellar right now. I believe we are. Wow, really? They got their own menu. They're making Manhattan.

with him right now. So yeah, check it out. Page the stage of Gary's pod, Gary's new special. Go see Chaz. He's got a one-man show and a podcast. Sam's got a special coming out on Amazon. We're cooking. BodegaCatWhiskey.com and follow us all on PunchUp.Live slash our names. PunchUp.Live slash Mark Norman. PunchUp.Live slash Sam Morrell slash Gary Veeder. And keep listening. We love you guys and thank you Chaz, Gary. This was a great episode. Great episode.

This woman doesn't lead true.