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Hi, Crime Junkies. It's Britt. This is one of two episodes you are getting in your feed today, so if you haven't listened to our previous episode titled Be Weird, Be Rude, Stay Alive, Sex-tortion, go back and listen because this episode is actually a bonus episode. Now, buckle up because I was lucky enough to have a conversation with the one and only Rue Powell, who we talked about at the end of today's episode.
Roo is the founder of SOSA, a nonprofit dedicated to raising awareness in combating online child sex abuse and exploitation. During our conversation, we talked about the work that SOSA is doing, how to stay safe online, how our crime junkie parents out there can best support their kids, and so much more. So without further ado...
Rue, I'm so excited to talk to you today. I think the first question that I'd like our listeners to know is hear a little bit about you and SOSA and kind of how you came to create SOSA. Yeah, so SOSA is a 501 nonprofit, and our goal is ending online sex abuse or ending sex abuse in all its forms.
So it originally started where I've been this kind of career long writer and child advocacy has always been a really big part of that. And I was also working in tech. And one of the things that we saw was online sex abuse. We saw a lot of other tech adjacent concerns, right? Like bullying and just everything that comes along with having a smartphone now.
And what I wanted to do was really demonstrate the ubiquity of online predation. So what we ended up doing is I led a team of designers and writers, and we just took a photo of me and DH'd it a bunch. And I just wanted to show parents what can happen when a kid's online.
I did this because I think for parents who are my age, like my parents never worried about a smartphone or Snapchat. They worried about my grades, me boozing at prom, anyone that was in like the close vicinity to me, right? So like an actual physical curfew, stuff like that. Yeah. If I'm walking home from school, they're worried about if a guy in the 7-Eleven parking lot is going to throw me in a trunk.
They're not worried about anyone beyond who is in close proximity to me. But now with a smartphone, it's not just the guy down the road. It's somebody states and states away. Right. So this is brand new territory. I wanted to really show the ubiquity of not just the ubiquity of online predation, but how it happens and how fast it happens. So we put this fake person online.
And it happened very quickly. It just started coming in. And even in working in the tech industry and working in this safety space, we were all still shocked at the amount. So then I wrote a piece about it. It went viral. I left that company. I started Sosa. I decided that this is the part of the Internet that I want to explore and do more work on. So...
One of the reasons we're talking to you is we're covering sextortion in one of our episodes. And can you speak a little bit to, you know, what that looks like, what the victimology maybe is, and more about what you've seen? I mean, I have people who say, like, oh, I am really worried about my daughters. And it's very gender-specific. I'm worried about my teenage girl, but not my teenage boy. And it's really important for people to know that kids are targeted—
irrespective of gender, sexuality, identity, race, etc. So parents who maybe start to tune out because they only have sons, I would caution that boys are targeted online. And so a way that happens, and there was a period of time where I was getting a phone call a week about this from a local parent that was very concerned.
So you've got, you know, a cute 14 year old boy who's online posting on Snap or Instagram or just any typical social media platform. And a cute 14 year old girl adds him and they're chatting back and forth. And at some point, you know, the conversation turns sexual or romantic or however you want to call it. And this girl starts sending photos, explicit photos and starts asking for explicit photos in return.
Oftentimes, that's not a 14-year-old girl. That is an extortion ring from another country, and they're using photos of exploited children in order to get more photos of exploited children that they can disseminate, but most likely use to extort.
So it's, hey, you need to PayPal or Zell me $500 or I am sending these photos to your coach, to your team, to your parents, to everyone at your school. And the threat of that is very scary for a young person, especially because they're
they're blindsided. They had no idea that this wasn't a peer. They thought they were having a romantic escapade online. And people will ask all the time, "Well, are online predators ever women?" And usually that's no. Usually if a woman is a predator, she is preying on people that she already knows, people in close vicinity to her. So we're talking about the teacher-student dynamic or the coach or the youth pastor or the neighbor, that sort of thing. It's never really a woman going online trying to find a random kid.
So because of that, if people think that their kids are safe in some way, there's also this like really awful...
this really awful piece of sextortion that happens. And we've heard about it in TV shows or in the news for adults, for grownups, like, oh, I have this boyfriend who's in another country. And now all of a sudden he's telling me that if I don't send him money, he's going to send this to my boss. Well, that also happens to kids, too. So in your opinion, I mean, like you said, parents are kind of thinking, you know, I would see these changes. I would see a difference. I would know that it's happening.
What are some of the biggest misconceptions about online sex abuse? Well, I think a lot of it is, you know, I think parents think like, oh, well, you know, it would never be my kid. You know, my kid is a good kid. And it really isn't about being a good kid or a smart kid.
It's just about being a kid on the internet. And it's not about like, I don't know, I think that there are this preconceived notions that, you know, and parents will say, and they mean, they mean the best, but they're like, well, there's these girls online posting photos of themselves in their swimsuits at the beach. I'm like, yeah, we all do that. That doesn't give people the right to abuse them, right? They're just being teenagers online. I think some of the misconceptions include that it doesn't happen often.
And I think that's because we see all these like wild stories online, like, you know, man drives 12 states in order to pick up such and such kid. It doesn't always happen at that extreme, but it happens a lot. You know, it is not rare. I think that every time I go speak with a bunch of high school kids, I go, hey, how many of you have had like a random DM from someone that's like, oh, you're so pretty, you should be a model. And it turns out they were, you know,
way older than you and everyone's hands go up because every kid has experienced this not every kid but most kids have experienced this in some form right and it takes a long time that kids know that they're being abused because it doesn't read as the wrong thing at first it's just hey there's this person who is being so nice to me and is asking me about my day and is offering to you know give me advice and be like an older brother figure in my life
Those aren't necessarily red flags. And in fact, we've seen plenty of conversations where a perpetrator will groom without ever using sexual language or a curse word or anything that necessarily seems overtly sexual. But grooming is still happening.
Right. So what do you think are some of the biggest mistakes or ways we maybe don't realize we're making ourselves or our children more vulnerable in these situations? I think the number one thing that's keeping perpetrators safe is victim blaming. And I know that's a really bold thing to say, but predators know that society victim blames. It's like the online version of, you know, well, what was she wearing? Did she drink? Was she... The shame element. Yes. Yes.
Yes, 100%. And I think that, you know, you have a kid who's online, who's curious, just like I was in those AOL chatroom days. Like, oh, what is this chatroom? The wild west of the internet. Yeah, yeah, age, sex, location, you know, wanna cyber. Of course, like, a kid is curious, right? Mm-hmm.
And so if something happens, if they feel like somebody's going to shame them or blame them, or even if they're being targeted and they go, hey, parents, look, I'm being targeted. And the parent's response is to go, how could you? Like, how could you be so stupid? How could you be so dumb? Like, what did you do? Right. Like you posted this TikTok of you like shaking it.
All these things that genuinely don't matter. Like we've also put kids online covered neck to knees with like nothing remotely salacious happening. And these perpetrators are coming in anyway. But the point is, shame is what's keeping kids from sharing. Like the fear of shame, the fear of being blamed. And
If a kid's not going to report because they don't want to be shamed and they're suffering in silence, then the perpetrator is getting away with this. And they know that and they keep doing it, which is why so many online perpetrators have multiple, multiple victims.
And that kind of goes in line with like punishing a kid too. Like, oh, Brit, this terrible person was terrible to you online. That's it. I need to take your phone away because I don't know what's happening online. That's punitive, especially when there's this like social currency that comes along with being a teenager and having a smartphone. Right. If the result is punitive, then of course a kid's going to be reluctant to share what happened to them online. Kind of protective of what's going on so that they can have this thing that's connecting them to the outside world that they're still curious and they're still like,
not all bad stuff is happening on there. They still want that connection. They're protecting that. Yeah, of course. I mean, and I'm very pro-internet. I think the internet is great. It allows us to talk. It allows us to know what's happening in the world.
you can like learn a hobby, you can learn how to, I don't know, crochet online. Like, that's what I did. Yeah, there are great things online. But there are also these, you know, parts of the internet or these avenues that can be abused. And so that's why I think parents will sometimes or caregivers will sometimes have like a quick talk like, hey, don't talk to strangers or don't send nudes or and kind of that's it. But, you know, I have teenagers. And
And the conversation is ongoing. It's kind of like the sex talk. I don't just have the sex talk with my kids once and then that's it. It's a conversation that we're constantly having. And the same goes for online safety. Right. Now that makes a ton of sense. So in addition to, you know, keeping these lines of communication open with our kids, what can our crime junkies with kids do to best protect their kids in these situations? Like,
Like you said, you can't take them away from the internet. You can't isolate them away from this, at least not forever. So what can they do to empower their kids, to protect their kids? Yeah, well, what I tell any parents or caregivers is that the best way to prevent predation is to really have open lines of communication with your kids. So that means talking about online safety. That means kind of being a soft place to land for your kids. And I think there's this idea of, hey, let's just...
delay the phone. Let's just take the computer away. And that can happen to an extent, but my kids were turning in homework on their school-issued devices in third grade. Yeah. I have a sophomore and a kindergartner, and we had some e-learning this week, and my
she has the internet in her tiny little five-year-old hands. You can't prevent it. Right. Or even like your kid is on a sports team and so they all are using a specific app to, you know, communicate. And there are parents that will say or caregivers that will say, well, I'm just going to keep the phone, the iPad, the whatever out of my kid's hands. All right. Well, does your kid ever go over a friend's house? Because that friend probably has a laptop, a phone. It's like when you went over a friend's house and they had
you know, a huge computer and a thousand free hours of AOL. Like that's access. So preparing kids for it, irrespective of whether or not they have a phone at the moment, I think is really important.
I'm also really big into teaching kids to trust their gut. Like if there's something that feels off, like if you have, and this translates in real life too, right? If you're at a gas station and you feel like your spidey senses are tingling or something feels wrong, you're supposed to trust that feeling. And same for kids. Like if something feels weird or ick or gross, tell someone you trust, tell a parent, tell a caregiver, tell a teacher. And I think trusting your gut is a big part of it. So we have these
conversations all the time. And this is why I also think not shaming your kids is important because it's very easy to be tricked. And, you know, it's very easy to trust someone and instead of looking at as, oh, my kid broke my trust and sent these images, look at it as, oh, this person deeply manipulated my child and this person who is very practiced, very experienced, manipulated my child and now I have to protect them. So I think looking at it from that vantage point is really important.
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We actually have a lot of parents who listen to our show with their kids, kids who we know are most likely online. So what about kids? What can kids do to keep themselves safe online? That is...
a really great question. And it's funny because my kids, their friends will come over and sometimes ask a question or two and they know they can pull me aside if something's gone sideways online, they're not sure how to handle it. I think that, I mean, there are a couple of things you can definitely look out for, but I would always recommend just making all of your accounts private, whether that's Snap, whether that's Instagram, Twitter, Reddit, Discord, wherever, just making it private, making it friends only. And then if,
just also be a little bit judicious about who you add because snapchat has like hey we think that you should add these friends and people just go you know click click click click click down the line they're just adding whomever so the rule of thumb with my kids is unless you know you can like tell me who they are because you've met them or they're in a class with you you know it
just hold off on adding them for now. That's one thing. The other thing to do, I think, is to look out for sneaky tactics that a lot of perpetrators will use. One, we call it the white knight tactic. So let's say you're on a forum, you're in a Discord server, you're on Twitch, and someone says something like,
Oh, my gosh. Hey, be careful. I know that you're 13. There are a lot of really bad people online. But don't worry. Like, I can help you. I can. I'm not one of them. Right, right. Like, I can help you. Like, you need to be careful, but I'm happy to look out for you. And almost as if they're, like, taking on this, like, big sibling role. Like, you can't trust these people on the Internet, but you can definitely trust me.
There's also the photographer who thinks you're so pretty and you can be a model, but they don't even have like a photography portfolio. They're like, oh, it's in the works or I can send you some photos and you can send me some photos.
And this is a little bit glib, but when we were younger, people would say, all right, if there is a person that comes by and says, hey, can you help me find my puppies? My puppies are lost. Don't go help them. Like, that's a trick, you know? Right, right. I would say there's like a 2023 version of that too. And it's, hey, if you add me on Instagram or Discord or Snap, I can show you photos of my new puppy. Wow. Which sounds absurd, but...
like at my age, I might fall for that. Like, oh, a new puppy. What kind? Let me see. Send me those pictures. I want to see. I was going to say, I'm kind of interested. I'm not going to lie. Yeah. So what we find, people will ask all the time, like, what are the good apps? What are the bad apps? Like a Snapchat, the bad app. What are the safe apps? Is Instagram safe?
And unfortunately, the truth is there are no good apps or bad apps because any app that has some sort of chat client or has some sort of opportunity for communications, whether that's comments or like a group server or whatever, that is a place that can be used to
to abuse a kid or start a conversation. So I was consulting with this tech company that does a lot of gaming and they have one specific app and it's a coloring book app. And they had been seeing a lot of predatory behavior on it. And I
I think for you and me, like I wouldn't think twice about downloading a coloring book app on iPad and handing it to a kid. So they're preoccupied for 20 minutes. For sure. Like waiting room situations in the car. Like that sounds like an app that I would never give a second thought about. Right. And that's when you'll see a lot of that too. Like, hey, love your art. What's your Instagram or add me on Instagram or this is so cute. You would love to see photos of, you know, my puppy or drawings of whatever. I'd love for you to draw my puppy. Yeah.
And we see this on lots of different apps. Like even when we're doing these decoy ops and perpetrators will say, I don't feel super safe texting you. Can you download this makeup app? And I'll download this makeup app and we can talk on the makeup app. Because a makeup app and a coloring book app, those apps seem so benign and innocuous. So they don't seem potentially sketchy. Yeah. And like if you're someone who's accessing your kid's phone or looking into anything for some reason, I wouldn't ever think to look at a coloring book app for like
Right. Like we're looking at Instagram, we're looking at Reddit, we're not looking at words with friends, right? Right. Wow. So young person, if you're listening, I will tell you what I tell every teenager in my life, and that is do not send nudes. Ever. Never.
If you ever do, make sure your face isn't in them. Don't do it. But if you do, there's help. NCMEC, National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, has a take-it-down tool, a take-it-down service. There are people that can help you through this and don't suffer alone because there are people out there that are very good at doing this, very good at manipulating people. So if you're listening and you're a kid and this has happened to you,
Definitely go right to Nick Nick. Tell an adult that you trust. We talked a little bit about what our listeners with kids and our kid listeners can do. But what about those who don't have kids in their lives immediately? Aunts and uncles, all those sorts of people who are kind of periphery, but maybe aren't the people who are limiting screen time, you know, checking in on apps, stuff like that. What can they do to protect kids?
again themselves and the kids in their lives? I think that you know the role of cool aunt is very very important because sometimes kids don't want to talk to their parents about it and I think just being an adult in a kid's life that they feel like is safe that their feelings and emotions are safe with they
they can go to someone and say, hey, this happened to me, whether you're a teacher or an aunt or an older cousin or even an older sibling, just being able to kind of affirm that this stuff can happen. Abuse is never a kid's fault. You know, abuse is never a victim's fault. I think that's really important. Even just being able to share resources when needed or, you know, sometimes it's nice to have a buffer with the parent as well, being like,
By the way, I know that so-and-so has this app, this app, this app, this app. Have you had any chats about online safety? Nick Nick has lots of great resources. We've got resources on the SOSA's website. RAINN has resources. So I think there's a lot of ways for other adults to share. But I think that just being somebody who cares in a nonjudgmental way is very important.
I would love for my kids to have plenty of people in their lives that they feel like they can go to if something went down, like in an emergency. And that's how I feel about trying to foster a relationship with my kids where they feel like they can come to me.
I think when I was younger, if something happened that was bad, I would say, oh my gosh, my parents could never find out. Whereas I hope now that my kids would say, oh my gosh, something bad has happened. I need to call mom because she'll know what to do. If you can be that person that they can call because you'll know what to do, that's always a great thing. I would also like to just say this. If you want to be this person in a kid's life,
So my teenagers have friends and we saw on one of my daughter's friend's phone, it says, you know, Rue. And then I
call if in trouble. Like that's what I'm saved as on their phone. That's your contact. Yeah, root, call if in trouble. Oh my gosh. Which I feel very honored that a teenager would say, I know to call if I'm in trouble because she'll help me out in some way. So if you can be that so-and-so call if in trouble on a kid's phone, I think that's a wonderful thing. Yeah, I love that.
So let's talk a little bit more about Undercover Underage. What has that experience been like and how has that media coverage helped Sosa's cause and the cases you're covering? Yeah, I think television is it's kind of a Wild West, too.
I started Sosa and then a production company said, "Hey, can we follow you around with a camera? We really like the work that you're doing." And I said, "No, that's really weird." And they said, "You've reached all of these people with this piece that you wrote. If one of your main goals is awareness, imagine reaching a million people per week." And that sounded like a really good way to raise awareness about online sex abuse and exploitation. So that's how Undercover Underage started.
I will say that, you know, we do this work irrespective of the show. So we're doing decoy ops, whether or not there's a camera. But I think that it's been really helpful for people to see how quickly it can happen, how sneaky it can be. And then really to the extreme of like, you know, most of the time when we catch a perpetrator,
This has not been their first time, right? They have a long list of, or they do the forensic examination of the phone and there are multiple, multiple, multiple messages. As far as the media helping, you know, one of the things that we do as well is we advocate for better legislation. So we helped pass in Connecticut, which is where SOSA is based, a bill, HB 6737. And it's essentially the act of communicating with a minor in a sexual manner.
that's now illegal. You might think that that's illegal everywhere, but it isn't necessarily. So you can have a 50-year-old man reach out to a nine-year-old girl for photos of her feet so he can self-gratify. And that's considered creepy, but not a crime in many, many states. We think it should be a crime everywhere. Yeah. So
Criminalizing online grooming, even if it's not necessarily overtly sexual, I think is important. So we're talking with different states. You know, we've met with some legislators in Florida recently to discuss this as well. So we're hoping as we get one law passed in one state and another law passed in another state, maybe there's a domino effect. Same with advocating for a higher age of consent.
So most states, the age of consent is 16. If 18 is the arbitrary age that we choose that people can vote or serve in the military or whatever, then we also think it's the age that they can, you know, make decisions on whether or not they want to have a consensual sexual relationship with someone, you know, 40 years their senior. Right. But I will say being able to share about that.
Like online, we also share about our cases and what the verdicts have been. So sometimes I have to testify. A lot of these cases end up going to a plea deal, right? But sometimes they go to trial and sometimes I have to testify. And so one of our cases, he ended up getting a sentence of 20 years in prison and 10 years probation, which is our biggest sentence to date. And I think what that has also done is raise awareness about, okay, wait,
what exactly was this person doing? How can we make sure that we're adequately punishing people that are doing this? Because he was targeting very, very young children.
And I think that being able to just raise awareness about that has also pushed legislation in the right direction, has also pushed school education, like educating in schools in the right direction as well. Right. So what would you say has been the highlight of this journey, getting SOSA started and working on a show like Undercover Underage?
I think one of my biggest points of pride about Undercover Underage or the work that we do at SOSA and then we share it online is that we have these people who say, this happened to me when I was younger and I had no idea it wasn't my fault until now. Or I had no idea that what happened to me was bad because it seems abstract. Because when we're talking about abuse, we're always talking about hands-on abuse. We're never really talking about abuse that can happen online. And that could be, you know,
trying to create CSAM, child sex abuse material, and getting kids to send images and sending images back or being in a relationship. And so I think for a lot of young people, I know you have young listeners here, but our TikTok, like 70% of our audience is under the age of 24. And a lot of that is, hey, this happened to me a few years ago. And to hear you say it wasn't my fault has been really, really healing. Right.
What I really like about the show, so Undercover Underage is rated TV 14. And even though it's a show that could be very much rated TVMA just because of the content, but everything's been standardized to make it TV 14. And one of the reasons why is because we're hoping that teens watch it or we're hoping that people watch it with their kids or kids that are important to them because it becomes a tool for communication. I mean, I'm sure you know, you having a sophomore sometimes...
And speaking like eyeball to eyeball is difficult. It won't bring up a lot more honesty. But like if you're driving in a car and you're both staring at the same road, right? Oh, for sure. That's when like those conversations become a little bit more vulnerable and honest. It just seems less risky. Like it's a way that you can kind of connect with your parent and it feels less, I don't know, like... It feels like there's like kind of always an out. Like, okay, this car ride's going to end and then the conversation will be over or...
Another thing, like late at night, like right before bed, they're getting their last sip of water or something. And like, OK, like they can't keep me up forever. So if I start this conversation now, we can have it. And then like 10 o'clock will happen. I'll have to go to bed or whatever. And like those little moments where you can really connect are so incredible. And yeah, to have a show like this as a resource to utilize and to connect over and to reference back to is is something like as I was watching it.
and re-watching it to prepare for this, my husband kind of like walked in on a couple episodes and like we started conversations about like, okay, what does this look like implementing in our family? What does this look like in how we start conversations with our son who's a sophomore or our daughter who's, you know, in kindergarten? But like, this is a conversation that we're going to have to continue, like you said, to have with her, maybe not now in very graphic details, but like a conversation that is going to be for the next 10, 15 years of her life in our communication with her. Yeah. And
And those late night talks are so real. It's like the moments before bedtime become like the real world confessional. You know, those from years ago, they're like, hey, I'm going to get all this off my chest now. Yes. And so even if you don't necessarily have a formal, OK, what did we just watch? Let's talk about it. It's going to come up at some other time.
I joke that sometimes my role as a parent is just being a houseplant. Like they don't necessarily want to interact with me, but they like that I'm in the room or they like that I'm there. And then eventually they'll want to talk. So I do think this is a great subject for houseplant parenting. Like you could just kind of sit there and wait for them to say something. Houseplant parenting. I'm going to have to steal that.
Well, the show is outstanding. Just incredible, incredible work, both on the show and with SOSA in general. So how can our listeners support SOSA and the work that you guys are doing? We run on donations and we have some really wonderful people that donate every month. And we have some people that do, you know, once a year giving as well. But we're very good at stretching dollars. We are generous.
still like a pretty small nonprofit with a pretty small operating budget. Small but mighty. Small but mighty. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, we support ICAC teams all over and we pack up these bags and just kind of fly out and we'll do a quick operation. And I'll say that a lot of times the question is what separates you from like vigilante groups that you might see online that kind of are running through a Walmart with a phone going because they're live streaming to YouTube.
And the difference with us is that we definitely work with law enforcement from the outset. We talk with the DA's office. We know the requirements for prosecution. You know, we're working in tandem with them as opposed to kind of going rogue and then calling them later saying, hey, go pick up this guy. Because those cases are often not prosecutable.
We're very proud to say that to date, our conviction rate is 100%. That is amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I try to say that we're batting a thousand, but then my team reminds me, I don't know enough about sports to be using sports analogies, but I hear that that's an appropriate one. So I honestly wouldn't know. So I believe you. I believe that's a good thing. Yeah. I think that like, even if you are not able to financially support, just following along with us on social, we're really active. We share a lot about
tips and tricks and tricks in like the bad way, but also in the good way, right? Just tips on how to be safe online. Sharing that always helps with like just raising awareness and exposure.
One thing that I always suggest for parents, like, hey, if your kid's on TikTok and you're trying to, you know, make sure they're safe online, if they're begging you for TikTok, you can say, sure, but you also have to follow Sosa because we make a lot of content for young people too. I love that. Just on how to be safe online. Yeah. For whatever reason, we're just very cool on TikTok. There's a little bit of embarrassing ourselves for the sake of like getting a point across, but it's effective. And if it's a way that we can support young people,
Great. For sure. So I think the last note I want us to end on is supporting survivors. Can you give us a quick rundown of some of the resources out there that survivors can turn to and how our listeners can support survivors of online sex abuse? So photos have been shared online. NCMEC's Take It Down service is great. Also, they have NCMEC's Cyber Tip Line.
If you ever come across a perpetrator online, we lovingly tell people, please don't send that tip to SOSA. We can't do anything with it, but let your local law enforcement know. FBI has a tip line as well. If you need resources, SOSA is here. We've got resources on our website, but we also have our survivor fund.
There's also RAINN, which is a great resource. And I also would even like to mention the Crisis Text Line, because even though that's known for very specifically suicidal ideation, they do help with other issues as well. So keep that one in your back pocket too. I think generally speaking, first start with like the people in your own lives, right? I think affirming to the people in your lives that have experienced this in some way that it's not their fault is really important.
At SOSA, we started a survivor fund because sometimes it takes you listening to a story to kick up some feelings and realize, oh my gosh, this happened to me when I was younger or that was really upsetting and I never told anyone about it because I felt so ashamed. So we cover people's survivors therapy. We'll cover like a dozen therapy sessions with somebody who is trauma trained and we connect people with therapists that are in their own state because that's usually where they're licensed, right? And
And being able to help facilitate that kind of healing, like not just be in the intervention piece, but also be in the, hey, even if this happened 10 years ago, let's talk about it now. How can you heal from it now? Just being able to support in that way and just making people feel validated in what they experienced has been really rewarding for us.
Crime Junkies, I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Rue as much as I did. And our hope is that you walk away from this episode armed with knowledge and resources right in your back pocket to keep yourself and the kids and loved ones in your life safe online. You can find all the resources mentioned in this episode in our show notes. And I highly encourage you follow at SOSA Together for more online safety content. And if you have a minute, please take a moment to share this episode with someone in your life.
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