Why You Want Your Kids to Say, “No.” 33:11

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on your entire first order at HappyMammoth.com with the code CALM at checkout. That's HappyMammoth.com with the code CALM. Don't you ever question me. That's what my dad told his four sons repeatedly throughout our childhood.

Well, guess what that does? It conditions kids to grow up and be manipulated by controlling church leaders, to be taken advantage of by bosses who don't respect you, to marry a spouse who gaslights you. So you never learn how to say no to people, and so you do things out of obligation or fear, and that's not good or right. So it's critically important to teach your kids how

how to say no respectfully, how to speak up for themselves. And that is what we are going to discuss on today's episode of the Calm Parenting Podcast. So welcome. This is Kirk Martin. You can find us at CelebrateCalm.com. Reminder, don't skip through the ads. Helps me. And do, though, reach out to us if we can help you. Email Casey, C-A-S-E-Y, at CelebrateCalm.com.

Tell us about your family, ages of the kids, what are you kids struggling with? We will reply back to you personally and usually very quickly because that's our mission to help you out. So you have kids, strong willed kids, whose natural instinct is to say no, to do things their own way, to generally be non-compliant. And we've done podcasts on why immediate obedience is a false and unhealthy expectation.

And I just recorded a podcast on why kids reflexively say no to your request, because that's to sometimes buy time and space to process. Or they'll sometimes ask why, and it's because they need context. It sure sounds like defiance and disrespect, but it's usually not. So look, let's differentiate here. If a child responds with a sneering or snotty why, or calls you bro, that...

is pure disrespect and my first instinct to that would probably land me in jail. That's why I like learning how to control my reactions so I don't escalate the situation. My more rational response is to say nothing and wait until my child asks me to do something for them.

I can then casually respond, you know, it's too bad that your bro doesn't have any money, can't drive, and can't buy you things. Your father can, but your bro can't. See, nice easy way to start addressing that. And I could also respond by saying, look, here's one thing I've learned in life, is that treating people like crap or talking to people in disrespectful ways, it doesn't work.

So no way am I going to take you anywhere or buy you anything now because no one else throughout your entire life will be kind to you if you treat them that way. And I'm no exception, right? There's no drama. I've been through the defined stuff enough, but you know what it is. Even matter of fact tone, there's no drama in it. I'm just kind of laying out the facts of life. So

Learn to see that distinction. What I really wanted to focus on is teaching your kids how to say no respectfully. And this is in response to three recent questions from parents. And at the end, there's going to be a little but important twist. So question number one, should we force our son to hug his grandma? Simple answer for me, no.

Well, my parents see it as disrespectful. Well, I see them as petty and immature. Tell them to grow up and stop choosing to get offended by a child. Look, just think about this. You tell your child to hug his grandma. He says no. And then all the supposed grown-ups freak out. Why? He's a little kid. Maybe grandma wears too much perfume or she wants to kiss him with wet lips or lipstick.

Maybe she's too flabby or too bony or just too old. Maybe he's a sensory kid. He doesn't like being touched by anyone. Maybe she has chin hair. Maybe he's on the spectrum like my niece and nephew, and they just don't want to be touched. Look, we grew up giving our niece these phantom hugs where we didn't really touch her, and we made it a game, but we respected her.

I don't want the child to say, "No, you're an ugly old witch," or something disrespectful. What if your child, though, you--what if--see, this is part of teaching.

"Hey Grammy, I don't want to, um, I, I, I, could we just do this instead? I love you Grammy. Would you play cards with me? Or would you watch me skate? Or will you sit on the floor and build with me?" See, you could teach that to your child, right? Look, what if your child simply says, "No, I don't want to hug grandma." Why isn't that enough, right? What, why do we have to violate what kind of immature, sorry to call names here, it is kind of calling names, but, um,

I don't know what to say that it is, but what kind of immature, petty person? You know why I do that? Because it's like we put everything on the kids. We're grown adults. We walk around offended and surprised. I can't believe my child did that. Why? Kids have misbehaved since the beginning of time. Stop getting offended at everything and creating so much drama over it. Now, some of you have real drama. Stuff happens sometimes.

But in this case, why are we so immature and petty that we force things on a child? This is especially harmful if you've got a daughter and now you have disempowered your daughter from saying no and having people respect that. That happened to a lot of you with awful consequences, not even awful, sometimes traumatic consequences.

So, right, you look, we get on our kids about having integrity and telling the truth. And then they do. And we as a society shame them. So by all means, teach your child. Hey, no, look, Grammy, I love you. But would you play cards? Could we watch me skate? Could you play with me? But no, I don't want to hug. Like, let's respect that.

So why? And so here's another thought with that. Let's say that your child does say that, like, Grammy, I don't want to hug, but I'd like to do X with you.

Why don't all the grown-ups around this little kid instead say, you know what I respect about you? You know what you like and you know what you don't like and you're not afraid to say it. I respect you for being assertive and honest and courageous. See, imagine how that would change the entire situation and how your child would feel about himself or herself inside.

See, then instead of grandparents and aunts and uncles all whispering judgmental things about you and your child and wringing their hands over what kind of child you're raising, they could be celebrating your child's honesty and courage. So let's practice that.

Teach your child an acceptable way to say no. Question number two. I was at the grocery store with my daughter when I saw an old friend. I approached and told my daughter to be polite and say hi to her. My daughter said I don't want to and hid behind my leg. What should I do about that kind of defiance? Should I make my shy child say hello to the neighbor when spoken to?

Look, first, there's no defiance there. Your daughter simply said she didn't want to say hi to a stranger. That's not defiance. That's called being honest and having an opinion about an arbitrary request. And no, you should not make your child say hello. She's just a shy kid, and there's nothing wrong with that. And I don't want her to internalize there's something wrong with you because you're shy.

Right? Plus you've probably told her not to talk to strangers. And I'd encourage you, stop being afraid of being judged. Stop being embarrassed about your child's actions.

Look, you don't get to bully your child just because their behavior isn't exactly what you'd expect. And do not try to explain it away to your friend while your daughter is hiding behind your leg. Oh, my daughter's just... Look, there's nothing to explain. There's nothing to be embarrassed about.

Shy kids are usually deeper thinkers and processors. They hang back, they observe, they listen, and then they integrate everything they learn from that to develop excellent thought patterns. They're good problem solvers. They're often very good writers, good teachers, artists, engineers. I remember when I was a little kid, I was very, very shy. In fact, I was voted shyest boy in my high school class. But I remember as a kid laying under a blanket and

And acting like I was asleep. You know what I was doing? I was listening to everybody. Part of the reason I'm good at what I do today is that I'm good at listening and recognizing patterns in things. So look, why can't this girl simply be shy without being told there's something wrong with her?

Look, and why can't I say no to eating fish without everyone trying to convince me, Kirk, you don't know what you're missing. Actually, I do. I've had it before. I don't love it. I don't go around shaming you for your stupid food choices that are nothing but a preference. Yeah, there's a little bit of bitterness in there, so stop trying to dictate what I eat. So, I'm kind of kidding. But your daughter, look, your daughter simply indicated she doesn't want to interact with a strange adult she doesn't know.

Just because you've known this friend for 30 years doesn't mean your daughter should care about her. Right? And it also doesn't mean moms and dads getting remarried, you're the step, the new step parent, doesn't mean your child should not be obligated to like or love that new guy or gal that you brought home. Or,

his or her kids that are now going to be the stepkids. Oh, we're going to have a big happy family together. Yeah, I don't know if we are.

Because I'm not sure, because you guys didn't talk about your parenting style and how you're going to discipline. And like, I see that he's really soft on his kids, but he's kind of mean toward me. And I didn't really choose any of this. I didn't choose who you're getting remarried to. I didn't choose the first one. That didn't work out. I'm not choosing this one. And I didn't get to choose to have to live in a home around all these other new kids. That happens. And be aware of that.

Right. And that whole thing of like, so you've got a child and then you're having a new baby. Baby comes along and you're like, oh, you're going to grow up and be best friends. I wouldn't set that expectation because now it's like, wait, I'm going to be best friends with this new little kid that's taking all the attention away. Right. Like you don't have to say that. Release them from that expectation. That doesn't always happen.

So there's no need to create that expectation on everybody else, right? So don't sacrifice your child because of your embarrassment. There's nothing wrong with being shy. Stop shaming kids for it. It's those annoying, precocious little kids who ruin it for the rest of us. Well, good morning, Mrs. Henderson. Your dress is lovely. Whatever. So look, your shy kids will come out of it in time.

I grew up hiding behind my mother's leg for good reason. It kept me safe from my dad. And I was voted shyest boy in my high school class. I didn't want to draw attention to myself. And I'm a public speaker. So go figure.

Well, won't my child grow up to be socially awkward? Well, it depends. Maybe if you keep killing her confidence by telling her there's something wrong with her, it will. But most likely, she'll grow older, she'll grow in confidence, and she'll slowly learn these skills.

So what can you do? Live your life out in front of your kids. The way you live is your lecture to your kids. Model how to be gracious and generous and kind and patient and everything you want your kids to be.

See, when you meet other people, you say hi, you look in people's eyes, you ask them questions to be curious about their life instead of dominating conversations. You show them how to be gracious and kind and giving, and your kids will absorb that and replicate it one day. And here, okay, I hope that makes sense. Here's the one I really wanted to get to, and it's going to open up a little can of worms. It's going to make you uncomfortable, and that's okay because many of you are going to have to wrestle with this one. So

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with 20% off any new SimpliSafe system when you sign up for Fast Protect monitoring. Just visit simplisafe.com slash calm. That's simplisafe.com slash calm. There's no safe like SimpliSafe. I get this question a lot. My child refused to complete a worksheet in school and...

I got a note sent home that my child is being labeled as defiant. How should we handle this? Now, here's an aside. I've been through this in other podcasts. It's definitely in the ADHD University program, how to help kids process information more quickly, how to jumpstart their brains, how to improve focus and attention, all of that. But that's not my focus here. So look, this is how this typically plays out.

A good teacher asks all the students in the class to complete a worksheet during class. Pretty simple and easy request. Your child, of course, refuses. The teacher will most likely resort to a consequence. Well, if you don't do the worksheet, you miss recess, or you don't get to sit next to your friends at lunch.

And your child may say inside, well, that's fine with me because I don't really like any of the other kids anyway. Or this will serve to further alienate your child and make him or her feel like a loser, all because he's overwhelmed and tapped out. And you'll get a very concerning note sent home to you about your child's misbehavior because he's not following directions, refusing to do assigned work. And it will sound very dire.

And you'll feel angry or embarrassed. And now you have to have a talk with your child about his misbehavior, which almost never works, right? You're going to have to talk to them about their defiance, their refusal to do work, and refusing to listen to the teacher. Look, I get that. We went through all of that with Casey. At times, it felt like the teacher was finding everything wrong with Casey that he could.

If three kids did something wrong on the playground, Casey was inevitably pegged as the instigator. Now sometimes he was, because that's his personality, but not always. So let's establish this. It is so much easier in life if you just do what authority figures ask you to do. It is.

Some of you have kids who sail through school and childhood and they'll likely get good jobs and it'll be easier in life in so many ways. But that's not your strong will child and that's not what they value. See, I don't care about easy. I prefer the challenge. I prefer doing it my way, figuring it out myself.

Look, it has made some things harder for me in life, but please don't miss this. It has also made accomplishing things more meaningful and satisfying because I did it on my own terms. I did it by overcoming a challenge, not by doing it the way everybody else did it. Part of the reason you listen to this podcast is because it's different. It's not like all the other ones.

See, I value that independence way more. And that's what your kids often value. It's what they find so appealing, right? And so going at this rationally and talking to them rationally about what you value won't work. Because if your kids could be honest, they'd probably tell you, I'm okay with it being harder. You're not.

Okay, I'd like to establish another truth as I see it. If you have a child in kindergarten or first grade especially, please chill with your expectations. Little kids aren't supposed to be efficient and productive and line up perfectly and follow through on everything they do. They're not. Their job is to learn, and they usually learn best through play, through experimenting, exploring, making messes, playing some more, making mistakes.

Whether little kid completes a worksheet a few days a week or lines up perfectly to go to the cafeteria will have zero bearing, none, zilch, nada on his future life happiness or success. So don't let pressure from society, school, and your friends with perfect kids sway you from what's most important.

raising a curious child who loves to learn and who hates busy work. So I taught Casey, and you may disagree with this, and it's okay. I taught Casey that occasionally, not all the time,

it would be appropriate to respectfully say the following to a teacher. Ms. Johnson, I know you want me to complete that worksheet right now, but I'm tapped out and I can't do it. May I complete it tonight?

That was an honest statement, not an excuse to get out of work. I was a hard dad who taught him to push through and work even if you're vomiting. I taught him that by example. I did several workshops where I was actually physically really ill.

And actually, Casey did the same thing. So it wasn't about coddling him. It was giving him permission to speak up and say no respectfully on occasion and to always include a solution. I'm not going to do it now, but can I do it tonight? A little side note. I taught him that at about the age of nine. It's 20 years later. When he approaches the president of the company he works for, his little side job,

He's not afraid to disagree and he always brings a solution. That is why the president of that company has taken my son under his wing because Casey's not afraid to disagree and the president values that. See now watch though, when our kids do this, watch how insidious the reaction is to this.

The child who doesn't speak up, who just does what is expected, is applauded. That child is a good child, so well-behaved. She's a good girl, so compliant, so agreeable. She never gives us a hard time.

And this begins to create narratives that some of you are just now realizing have defined your entire life and relationships. Because here's what it is. People are happy with me and give me attention when I do what is expected without speaking up and using my voice.

People like me more when I don't cause any rough on any feathers, right? And that can lead to getting taken advantage of.

And like I said, it can make life much easier for kids who do this, but long-term, not always that great. Casey, on the other hand, was shamed. And the notes sent home said he was, and I will quote from some of them, disrespectful, disobedient, doesn't listen, doesn't comply with requests, refuses to do what is expected of him.

Now, here is what he said. I am exhausted. I'm tired mentally or emotionally. That's an honest statement. It's not disrespectful. Could I finish that worksheet tonight? That's being proactive and problem solving. So watch what happens. A kid speaks up and is met with disapproval.

for being honest and assertive. So what does that begin to teach kids? Not good, right? So we went in for the parent-teacher conference. We had our own special chair there because we had to do it all the time. And I acknowledged to the teacher how difficult it is to teach these days, to teach that many kids in a class, how challenging Casey could be. Those things are all true.

This you don't have to agree with, but sometimes it's effective. I actually gave his teachers permission to not make him do his work all the time if he understood the concepts or if he was tapped out. That's really important. See, just as parents sometimes feel like failures because their child doesn't always comply or do what is expected,

Teachers often feel the same way when their students don't complete the work. And I wanted to reassure the teachers that we both had the same goal and that sometimes classwork and homework wouldn't get done. But we were always learning. And if she wanted or he wanted to mark down Casey's grades, we didn't care because grades are just arbitrary and they don't even matter, especially before you get to high school.

Now, some teachers responded with relief because they're very conscientious people. And when I said, I release you from thinking that you always have to give our son extra work or homework, we're on top of this stuff. We're always learning at home. Sometimes homework won't get done, but we will have learned. We will have read something different. It probably wasn't on your approved book list, but we're reading. We're watching documentaries. We're exploring. We're doing experiments, etc.

We're learning so some of the teachers responded with relief and some just looked at me like oh I know where why your son is so difficult, right? They got it for me. So I also suggested that if Casey By responded or spoke up respectfully and said hey, could I do this? She could say hey look you don't have to do your worksheet right now. I'll send it home. I

But I'd love to see you use your creativity and your imagination by drawing, by doing puzzles, by coloring, by building. Look, I've got a special project for me. You just have to do it quietly without interrupting or distracting other students.

What would be wrong with saying that occasionally? Hey, you know what? I get it. There are days where I'm tapped out, right? We have to normalize things for some of our kids. We all put off work sometimes until we feel better or we have more clarity and energy. I worked 20 years in the corporate world. There were some days I just didn't have it. I didn't do any work. I just walked around talking to people and I did personal stuff and just...

scan the internet for things and just hung out in the lunchroom. And then I do my work at night or on the weekends, right? It's unrealistic to ask kids to perform under pressure and a time limit all the time every single day when most of us don't do that as adults in our real jobs, right? So look, those are all side points. Here's the most important part. Here's what this teacher and almost all of us miss is

The opportunity to teach a child a valuable lifelong skill, to be honest, to speak up, to be assertive, to ask for what they want, to problem solve, and to seek solutions.

See, why don't we respect the child for being honest and assertive, for speaking up for himself or herself? Wouldn't it be awesome if that grandmother who didn't get the hug and that teacher said, "You know what? I have so much respect for you. You aren't afraid to say no and speak up for yourself. You're not afraid. You come with other solutions." Very few adults even know how to do that. That's an amazing trait. See, that would be awesome for our kids to hear.

Don't sacrifice your child's confidence on the altar of conformity.

Your kids are not going to fit in. You're going to battle this. Don't make them just fit in arbitrarily, right? I give them skills so they can navigate life, but don't sacrifice them on an altar of conformity, fitting in and just mostly complying with very arbitrary expectations that have no bearing on your child's future happiness or success. You're the adult. You get to choose that.

Now look, did Casey sometimes take his "no" too far with us? Of course! But it wasn't hard to bring him back to center. Here are a few more reasons you want your kids to learn to say "no."

So they can speak up and say no to their friends and say no to peer pressure. This saved Casey from making stupid choices in his teen years, right? With a strong-willed child, you don't always have to worry about peer pressure because our son was the peer pressure. You want to teach your kids to speak up so they can speak up and say no to sexual advantages, advances, or anything else that makes them uncomfortable.

If you've never been allowed, encouraged, or taught how to say no, it's tough to do that in the moment. But if you've been taught that being assertive, honest, and forceful is a good quality, it's much easier. You want to teach them this so they don't get taken advantage of by smooth-talking salespeople, by an employer, or friends for the rest of their lives. Some of you, including me, I've struggled with this. You get taken advantage of because you have a hard time saying no. So practice this.

And I want your kids to do this so they learn to trust their instincts and question authority figures in a healthy way. Look, I know by doing that new podcast, there's so many people that have been taken advantage of through religious organizations and cults and very controlling people because they were never allowed as kids to say no, right? And to question anybody. And so when they got to later teen years, adulthood,

Bad things happened to them and they turned it in on themselves. You guys have done this. Some of you have done it. You turned it in on yourself and you question yourself instead of questioning authority figures. And I'm watching this play out in Casey's life, managing that catering company. He confidently says no. He speaks up. There are a lot of high paying, like super self-important clients that demand things,

And Casey doesn't have a problem respectfully saying that's not happening, right? He's good at that. I remember there was just a situation this winter where this group said like, well, we want to have the rooftop bar. And he's like, it's going to be 15 degrees up there. Well, we want to have a bartender up there. Well, the only bartender they had that night was a much older lady. And Casey said, no.

I'm not asking an old lady to go stand out in the cold for three hours when you can just go down one level and get drinks. Now, that's an awesome quality. And that's why they're giving him so much responsibility because they value that. It makes him trustworthy and he knows how to handle conflict. Now, here's a little twist to the story. I was emailing a mom about this and she said, here's what I didn't tell you, Kirk.

I am the one who first needs to learn how to say no. I'm working my way through the Moms program, 30 Days to Calm, and what hit me most was this. I have never learned to say no. So I do things out of obligation at our church for the PTA with my friends, and I do it out of guilt, sometimes for my spouse, and then I feel overwhelmed and I beat myself up

Because I never learned how to say no so to this mom's credit. Here's what she said Can we start with me? Can you teach me? I want to be encouraged to say no and I was like yes because that's kind of self-awareness and honesty is a beautiful thing so

This week, let's begin teaching your kids how to say no respectfully and appropriately. But even more importantly for some of you, I will challenge you and encourage you to say no to someone or some obligation this week. And don't apologize for it. Just say, no, I do not want to do that. No, I cannot do that. Look, if this is new for you, blame it on your kids. Oh, I would love to do that, but my daughter's not feeling well.

I'm fine with that, right? You can blame it on that. But over time, practice saying, no, the reason I don't want to do this is because I don't want to do this. I value my own time. I value my voice. I value my own priority. So practice it. Speak up. Be confident. Be courageous. Say no. Look, if you need help with this,

always email us. I'll help you. I will encourage you. If you need help getting our resources to help you with this, I encourage you, if you go through those, man, I go through it in a lot of detail. And in 30 days to call one, it is 30 days. You don't have to do it in 30 days, but it's 30 different skills like this that you learn and that you practice. And as you do that, if you struggle, just reach out to me and I'll help you with that. But if you need help getting the resources, reach out to Casey. He probably won't say no to you.

if you need help. So, hey, love you all. Thank you for sharing the podcast with other people. And if we can help you in any way, just let us know. Love you all. Bye-bye.