EP. 124 NEW YORK - The Nanny From Hell: The Murders Of 6 & 2 Year Old Lucia and Leo Krim

Publish Date: 2023/9/8

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Warning. The following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects. Trigger warnings from the stories we cover may include violence, rape, murder, and offenses against children. This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned.

On October 25th, 2012, 37-year-old Kevin Krim was on a plane from California to New York. The Harvard graduate had recently started a job at CNBC, and that week he had been in California for a work conference. But Kevin's heart was in New York City, where his wife and three young children were,

The family had moved there two years prior and life was going really well for them. They had money, a luxurious New York City apartment, job security, and more importantly, a very happy life. So that day, after a long week, Kevin was excited to go home and spend some time with his family

However, as soon as his plane landed at the JFK airport, Kevin turned on his cell phone and suddenly had dozens of texts and phone calls coming in, and everyone was asking if he was okay. Kevin was confused, but before he could figure out what was going on, the captain of the airplane announced over the intercom that a certain passenger needed to be escorted off.

Soon enough, a flight attendant tapped him on the shoulder and said, "Follow me." At that moment, Kevin felt a knot in his stomach.

What was going on? As he followed the flight attendant to the front of the airplane, Kevin got another phone call, this time from his brother-in-law, who regrettably informed him that something horrible had happened to his children. From here, two police officers approached Kevin, placed him into the back of a car, and escorted him to St. Luke's Hospital,

In the entire ride, Kevin sat in silence, trying to comprehend what was going on. Were they in a car crash? Was this a tragic accident? Once at the hospital, Kevin was met by a doctor who informed him that two of his three children

Six-year-old Lucia and two-year-old Leo were dead, and that their nanny, a woman they had trusted to come into their home and care for them, was responsible. So this is the story of Lucia and Leo Krem. I'm Courtney Brown. And I'm Colin Brown. And you're listening to Murder in America. ♪♪

Before this tragedy occurred, Kevin and Marina had the ideal life. They both grew up in California. Kevin was from Thousand Oaks, where he was a star football player in school, and Marina was from Manhattan Beach. At

At the time, Kevin was working at McKinsey & Company in Los Angeles, and Marina was working for a wholesale provider who sold powders made from exotic fruits. And by fate, in the year 2000, the two would cross paths, having no idea what their future held. Kevin ended up asking Marina out, and they spent their first date at an Italian restaurant on Venice Beach. And from there, their romance blossomed. Now, we weren't able to figure out exactly when they got married, but I believe it was around the year 2003.

It was also at around this time when Kevin got a job working with Yahoo in San Francisco. And that's the city where Kevin and Marina would start their family.

On May 25th, 2006, at 3:48 AM, Marina would give birth to their daughter, Lucia Ursula Krim. She weighed 7 pounds 9 ounces, was 20 inches long, and as soon as they laid eyes on her, their entire worlds changed forever. They often called their little family of three Team Krim. And soon enough, in 2008, they became a team of four with the birth of their second daughter, Nessie. Life was going really well for the Krim family, and it would only get better from here.

Shortly after the birth of their daughter Nessie, Kevin was offered a job as CNBC's digital media executive out of New York City. It was a very exciting opportunity for them, and soon enough they were uprooting their lives and moving their family to the East Coast.

They ended up settling down in a beautiful apartment called La Rochelle that was located in Manhattan's Upper West Side. They chose that area because it was very family friendly and they had good public schools for when their children grew up.

And after moving in, the Krems really were living out the American dream. Their apartment had oak wood floors, high ceilings, and these huge windows that overlooked Central Park. And if you know anything about New York City apartments, even little closet-size apartments are very pricey. So clearly the Krems were making a lot of money to be able to afford this lifestyle. And that's because they worked very hard.

Upon moving to New York City, Kevin started his job at CNBC and he worked very long days. So Marina decided to be a stay-at-home mom for her two girls. She also worked as a part-time art teacher in the city and as a little passion project.

She started a blog titled Life with the Little Crim Kids. The blog documented their lives in New York City. In it, Marina wrote about her girls ice skating in the winter, gingerbread decorating contests, and family trips out to the Blackberry Patches.

This blog was able to give us a little window into their lives. And after reading it, it's clear that the Krims were a very happy family. Here is a video of Lucia and Nessie reciting a poem for their mom. When I am grown and there stays, I shall be proud and great.

And tell the other girls and boys not to mess with my toys.

Under this video, Marina wrote: "For special occasions, I would work with our kids to memorize poems or songs to recite. It was always a good bonding for us as we stumbled over the lines of the current verses we were learning. I loved to watch their confidence grow when we'd video them performing their poem, which was always a hit with their grandparents. We would spend the month of December learning traditional Spanish songs to perform on Christmas Eve." Here's Lucia singing at Christmas for her family:

One, two, three.

Nuestro mundo tiene que ser lleno de vida y felicidad.

Bosques y flores debemos salvar Guiarte debemos cuidar Solo existe este mundo Que vivos nos mantendrá Si sabemos entenderlo Nuestra vida cambiará

So as you can see, the Krims were very proud of their children. And on September 30th, 2010, they would welcome another baby into their lives. Their son, Leo Hildago Krim. And with his birth, their family was complete.

They had everything they had ever wanted in this world. And as their children grew up, they developed their own little personalities. Marina would later write on her blog, quote, And the world's easiest child goes to little Leo Lito Krim. Yes, the two-year-old boy. One of the best parts of my day is after I drop off both girls at school, I have three precious hours with little Lito all to myself.

Okay, I'm getting near cheesy. I adore this boy so much. He is obsessed with collecting acorns he finds on the floor. He loves riding the school bus, and he happily plays by himself for long periods of time. Here he is set up in the kitchen and the living room and is making bacon. Not sure where he learned the word bacon.

Kevin Krim would later write in an article for Medium.com about Lucia and Leo, writing, "...Lulu, our firstborn, was a star in everything she did. She was an intuitive and expressive artist who loved her art classes at the Met and who was always painting at home. She also naturally nurtured and helped her siblings and the other children around her."

Leo was a keen observer of the world around him, an always present collector of acorns. He didn't miss a thing. Like most little brothers, Leo loved unconventional play with his sisters. Of course, they were only six and two years old, but Lulu and Leo had old souls and taught us so much about how to see creative opportunities in every moment.

Watching their children grow up was one of Kevin and Marina's greatest joys in life, and they were really proud that their children loved each other and always stuck together. Here is Kevin Krim describing his children's relationship. And they were a real team. It was one of our top priorities as parents that our kids learned to take care of each other, that they become best friends for each other, that they realized that no one would ever be more loyal to them

than they were to each other. And they were a team. Fights always ended in a sorry and a real hug. A funny thing was how Leo, even when he wasn't involved, would say, "Sorry Lulu, sorry Nessie," and give them a hug as well. They were team Krim in the apartment, on playgrounds, at parties. Marina and I always marveled how easy it was to track them on the playground because they were usually playing together.

It was comical to us that we'd take them to some birthday party with a ton of kids and lots of activities, and they'd end up near each other and not far from us. We loved them so much, and they loved each other. Yet we also tried to raise three little kids that were uniquely interesting little people. They were so different. Each had completely different colored eyes. Their complexions were dramatically different, from pale to deep brown. And of course they had these very different personalities.

Perhaps that was one of the secrets to their strong bond.

Now, back in 2010, when Marina was pregnant with Leo, she was still working a part-time job as an art teacher in the city. And soon enough, she had her hands full. With Kevin's busy work schedule and trying to balance the children's dance and swim lessons, on top of being pregnant, they quickly realized that they needed some extra help. So it's around this time when they start looking into hiring a nanny, which is very common.

especially in places like New York City's Upper West Side.

And they wouldn't even have to search very long. On an afternoon in 2010, Marina took Lulu to her ballet class at the Jewish Community Center. And while she was there, she was approached by a woman named Celia Ortega. Now, Celia noticed that Marina was pregnant and she looked like she had her hands full. So she walked up to Marina and started talking about how her sister Jocelyn was an amazing nanny if she ever needed one.

Celia told Marina that she had a sister who was great with kids, who had worked as a nanny previously, and who could definitely help out when Marina had the third child. Celia recommended that Marina hire her sister, the defendant, when she had the baby. It almost seemed like fate. With their third child Leo on the way, the Crimms were wanting to hire a nanny. And here she was, basically placed right into their hands.

Now, obviously, Kevin and Marina were amazing parents who weren't just going to bring a random person into their house. So they both did a lot of research and compiled a list of questions they wanted to ask Jocelyn during their interview. They also looked into her professional references to make sure she was indeed a good nanny. According to her resume, Jocelyn had been a nanny for two other families.

In 2006, she watched her nephew's three children in Dallas, and then she nannied the child of another woman named Yaclin Severino. Now, according to the New York Times, the Crimms never got a response from her nephew's family, but they did speak with Yaclin, who had nothing but amazing things to say about her. She told the Crimms that Yaclin had worked for her for two years and that she was a wonderful asset to their family and that she really helped out with her son Adrian.

So with this, the Krims felt like Jocelyn was a good match for them. In addition, during her job interview with the family, they really liked her. There was nothing that raised any red flags, and she seemed to be very pleasant to work with. So in the spring of 2010, a couple months before Leo's birth, the family hired her as their new nanny.

Now, Marina was still staying at home, so she mostly just needed Jocelyn to work in the afternoons to help her with pickups and drop-offs at their school and different activities that they had like dance, art, and swim lessons. Jocelyn usually worked about 25 hours a week at $18 an hour, so she was earning about $500 a week from the Krim family.

And both Kevin and Marina were very good employers. They knew that Jocelyn needed the money, so if there were ever any slow weeks, they would find other tasks for her so that she would get a full paycheck that week. And I used to be a nanny before I started this podcast, and from what I could tell, they seemed like an ideal family to work for.

The Krems would take Jocelyn with them on family vacations, and on the trips where Jocelyn wouldn't come with them, they would call around to their friends trying to find other work for her so that she could get paid that week. Kevin would later say, "I wanted to make sure there was no miscommunication, that we weren't pawning her off to other people, that we weren't trying to get rid of her." They truly just wanted to help Jocelyn out in any way they could.

In addition, when Jocelyn needed to return home to her native country to visit family, the Krems would often fund her entire trip just so that she could enjoy herself there and not have to worry about finances. And after years of working with the family, the Krems thought they knew Jocelyn pretty well, but as we've seen time and time again, we often don't really know people.

And sometimes, the people we welcome into our lives will in turn destroy them, which is a horrifying reality that Kevin and Marina Krim would soon come to terms with. So who was Yoselin Ortega? And now we're going to take our ad break.

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And now let's get back to today's story. Yoselin was born on May 1st, 1962 in Santiago de Caballeros, a city in the Dominican Republic. Growing up, her father owned a bodega and their family didn't have a lot of money. When Yoselin was 16 years old, her younger sister, 12-year-old Rosa, died unexpectedly from a brain aneurysm, which is something you don't typically see in teenagers. And her sister's death sent her into a deep depression. A

According to Yoselin's other siblings, she refused to leave her home for an entire year after her death, and it wasn't until her parents stepped in and took her to a local doctor when she finally began to recover. A few years later, in 1985, Yoselin would graduate with an accounting degree from a local university, but she always dreamed of leaving the Dominican Republic. Her goal was to move to the United States and live the American dream.

And she had her eyes set on New York City. The young and adventurous Yoselin would end up following those dreams, moving into an apartment on Riverside Drive in Manhattan. And when she first moved there, she was working at a printing company. And in 1995, she would get married and give birth to her son named Jesus Alberto Freys.

Yoselin's marriage, however, wouldn't last. By 1999, she and her husband would divorce, and following their separation, she sent her then-four-year-old son to the Dominican Republic to live with her sister. Yoselin came back to New York and continued on with her life. Over the next few years, Yoselin did what she could to make ends meet in New York City, but it wasn't easy. New York is notorious for being an expensive place to live.

So she struggled. Prior to her becoming a nanny for the Crim family, Jocelyn had worked a few factory jobs throughout the city. But as the cost of living continued to rise, she always found herself financially strapped, which made it difficult for her to send money to her son in the Dominican Republic. She also didn't have a place of her own and often jumped around to different family members' apartments.

Now, in 2008, Yoselin would go back to the Dominican Republic for an extended stay. And while she was there, a close friend of hers shot himself in the head on the balcony of her childhood home. After the suicide, her son Jesus would claim that his mother became very paranoid and she wouldn't ever let him leave the house, even to attend his baseball practices.

Jesus claimed that if their dog started barking, Jocelyn would force them to hide under the bed in their home. And soon enough, Jocelyn started complaining about frequent headaches. And there is some speculation as to whether or not this is true, but some family members said that it's around this time when she started complaining about hearing voices.

At trial, her sister would say, quote, she would step outside and she would hear someone say, go back, go back. She heard voices speaking to her, end quote.

Now, by August of 2008, Yoselin returned back to New York City. And a year and a half later, she was hired as the part-time nanny for the Krim family. And again, during her time working with them, everything seemed to go really well. According to Yoselin's friend, Maria, quote, "'She really loved them, the family. She loved the kids. She would take them to the park and she said the mom was a really good person.'

And the children really loved her as well. Lulu was known to always draw pictures for Jocelyn and then sent her home with them so she could put them on her fridge.

When you're around a nanny all day, every day, they become a part of your family in a sense. Now, by 2012, Jocelyn was finally making enough money to rent her own apartment in the Bronx. And she was really happy around this time because Jesus had finally moved to New York City as well. Jocelyn had always wanted him to go to high school in New York.

because she believed getting an education in the US would give him more opportunities. So once he got here, she actually enrolled him into a private Catholic school in the Bronx called Mount St. Michael's Academy. And this was pretty shocking because private schools in New York are extremely expensive and they're also very competitive.

To put it in perspective, the Krim children didn't even go to private schools and they were very well off. So everyone was very confused as to why Jocelyn made this decision. Maybe it was to make up for her absence throughout Jesus' life.

But in June of 2012, just months before tragedy would strike, Yoselin had to take $7,500 out of her savings to cover his tuition. And it's around that time when she started complaining to people about her financial struggles.

To make extra money, Jocelyn even started a side hustle selling makeup and jewelry. But according to her, a woman that she was doing this business with ended up stealing about $100 from her and she would never get that money back.

So even though on the outside everything appeared to be going well, Jocelyn was facing a lot of inner turmoil. Not to mention, she was working for a family who had it all. The Krims had a ton of money, a great family, they lived a luxurious lifestyle, all the while she was struggling to make ends meet.

Every day, Jocelyn went into work and watched as Marina got to spend quality time with her children, while she practically missed out on her son's entire childhood. And then now that Jesus was finally in the city, she couldn't even see him as much because she had to work. So over time, Jocelyn began to resent the Krems. In her mind, they had the life she always wanted, the life that she would never be able to have.

In the summer of 2012, Yoselin was forced to move out of her apartment in the Bronx. She was actually subleasing it from a family and they returned home, so she couldn't stay there anymore, which really upset her. According to Fernando Mercado, the superintendent of the building, she spent a lot of money on the Bronx apartment. So from here, Yoselin and Jesus had to move into her sister's apartment on Riverside Drive.

the very apartment she had moved out of years earlier. That living situation was very overcrowded and now she was back, this time with her teenage son, making it even more crowded. At some point, Marina Krim found out that Jocelyn was struggling, so she offered to give her more work around the house so she could make more money. She offered her money to clean their apartment and she also had Jesus dog sit for them while they were out of town.

In addition, Marina found friends of hers who also needed babysitting services, and she recommended Jocelyn so that she could make some extra money doing that. But instead of being grateful for the help,

Yoselin found this insulting. As the weeks progressed and anger inside of Yoselin grew, it started to have an effect on her physical appearance. Her neighbors at the Riverside apartment started to notice that she looked skinnier, older, and more anxious. One neighbor even described her as kind of devastated. It's clear that Yoselin was angry at the privileged life that the Krims lived.

and she was furious that Marina would offer her more work, instead of just giving her more money. In her mind, she felt that she already did enough for the Krim family, but she never voiced these concerns. Another neighbor, 25-year-old Kenia Gallo, recalled seeing Jocelyn in the elevator and remarked that she looked exhausted. When she asked Jocelyn what was going on, she replied, "I am tired. Work."

In early October 2012, Jocelyn was working a lot more than she usually did. But again, Marina was giving her more work because she thought she needed the money. And it's here where Jocelyn began complaining to her sister about her job dissatisfaction. She told her that ever since Marina changed her schedule, she barely had any time to spend with her son. And according to her family's testimony at trial,

This is when her mental health really took a decline. Now again, I do want to add that many people don't believe this next part. But at trial, Jocelyn's sister claimed that in the weeks before the murders, she woke up to Jocelyn banging her head against a wall. When she went in the room to check on her, Jocelyn was pulling her hair out saying, "...I want to go back to the way I was before."

Her sister would later say that every night, Jocelyn would light candles, kneel beside her bed, and pray to a painting of baby Jesus that God would, quote, "...take away all the things she was feeling in her body and mind."

Now, allegedly, Jocelyn also told her sister that she had been hearing voices and having hallucinations. When asked what she was seeing and hearing, she said that an imaginary black man was coming up to her

and threatening to take her away from her family. So on October 22nd, 2012, just three days before the murders, Yoselin made an appointment with a psychologist named Dr. Thomas Caffrey, who was located in New York City's Upper West Side.

Dr. Caffrey had a great reputation around New York City. He had a doctorate in clinical psychology, a specialty in forensic psychology, and had been practicing for over 40 years. He also worked within the prison system and had once held the title of President of the New York State Psychological Association's Forensic Division.

so he was very qualified. Now, Yoselin found Dr. Caffrey through her insurance company and called his office to schedule an appointment, but he was all booked up and wouldn't be able to see her for a few weeks, which was very upsetting to Yoselin. In fact, she even talked the receptionist into fitting her in because it was an emergency, so they ended up shifting his schedule around so that he could see her during one of his lunch breaks. On the day of the session, Yoselin arrived early with a friend of hers and stepped into his office at 12.20 p.m.,

And from there, they talked about everything she had been experiencing. In his notes, Dr. Caffrey wrote that Jocelyn had pressured speech and seemed to have the world on her shoulders. Jocelyn talked about her financial instability, how unhappy she was in her crowded apartment, and how she felt like a failure to her son, but never once mentioned anything about hearing voices or wanting to harm herself or others. The meeting was only about 40 minutes long, since Dr. Caffrey had a tight schedule that day.

But he was able to diagnose her with generalized anxiety disorder and dysthymic disorder, a mild but reoccurring form of depression. In his notes, he wrote, prognosis good. And from here, their session was over. Yostin was charged $200 for the visit. And although she did not schedule a follow-up appointment, Dr. Caffrey expected her to return. Now, something important to note is that the Krems had no idea that their nanny was going through such a hard time.

Of course, they knew she was struggling financially after paying for her son's private school, which is why they offered her more work. But Jocelyn never once asked them for more money, nor did she ever show any signs of mental illness.

And the Krims actually had family members that suffered from schizophrenia, so they were very understanding of how difficult it was to suffer with that sort of mental illness. And if they had ever known what she was going through, they clearly would have done everything in their power to help her out. But that's not how this story would end. In late October of 2012, Kevin Krim had been in San Francisco for a business trip.

So that week, Marina needed a little extra help with the three kids. October 25th specifically was a very busy day for the Krim family. Kevin's flight was getting back later that day. The kids had to be dropped off then picked up from school. And then later that afternoon, three-year-old Nessie had swim class and six-year-old Lulu had a dance lesson.

and many of these activities kind of overlapped each other, so Marina scheduled the day accordingly and split the different tasks for her and Jocelyn. So let us walk you through that day. At 3.15 p.m., Jocelyn picked up Lulu from school, and shortly after, Glenn Ludi, who was the doorman at La Rochelle, saw her return to the apartment with both Lulu and Leo by her side.

Glenn was very familiar with all of the families and their nannies in the building, so when he saw Jocelyn and the kids, he greeted her. But instead of a warm welcome, Jocelyn quickly asks, "Is the mom home?" Glenn informs her that Marina had just left with Nessie. As we know, Nessie had swim lessons.

So from here, Jocelyn takes Lulu and Leo upstairs and they are never seen alive again. Now, the only other task Jocelyn had that day was to take Leo to her dance lesson and Marina would pick her up once it was over. So at around 5 p.m., Marina shows up to Lulu's dance studio, but Lulu wasn't there. The dance instructors informed her that Jocelyn never dropped her off.

And immediately upon hearing this, Marina knew deep down that something was wrong. It was just about 5 p.m. when Marina learned that Lulu never made it to dance class. In the two years that the defendant had been working with the Krim family, she had never not been where she was supposed to be. She was reliable, and it's why the Krims worked with her for two years and trusted her with their children.

From here, Marina rushed back to their apartment on West 75th Street with millions of thoughts running through her mind. Is Jocelyn okay? Did she have a medical emergency that prevented her from driving? A number of different scenarios went through her head, but none were even close to what actually happened.

As she rushed back to her apartment, Marina texted and called Jocelyn over and over, but they all went unanswered.

At around 5:20, she and Nessie finally arrived home and sprinted up the stairs to their apartment. And usually when she walked through the doors, she could hear the sounds of her children laughing and playing. But not this time. As Marina walked inside, everything was eerily dark and quiet. All of the lights had been turned off.

And Leo's stroller was just sitting there, in the middle of the main room, unattended. And on the ground next to it was Lulu's dance bag. However, there was no sign of Lulu, Leo, or a Jocelyn. So from here, Marina runs downstairs to speak with the doorman. Surely, he must have seen them leave, and this was all a big misunderstanding.

but he didn't see anything. So Marina returns back to the apartment, holding her little three-year-old's hand, and together they walk room to room calling out Lulu and Leo's name. Now, like we mentioned, the apartment was dark. All of the lights had been turned off, except for the light in the bathroom. The door to it was closed. So while Marina held Nessie's hand, she cautiously opened it,

And from that moment on, her life would never be the same. Standing in front of her was her nanny, Yoselin Ortega. She was covered in blood with a knife in her hands. And behind her, in the bathtub, was six-year-old Lucia and two-year-old Leo. Their tiny little bodies were stacked on top of one another and covered in blood.

Both of their eyes were open, but they were staring blankly ahead, lifeless, an image that would be forever ingrained in Marina's mind. Now before Marina could even react, she watched as Jocelyn gripped the knife that killed her two children and she stabbed it into her own throat. From here Marina grabbed Nessie and quickly ran out of the apartment.

She knew with just one glance that her children were dead and as soon as she stepped out into the hallway, Marina collapsed on the ground and began screaming uncontrollably. The screams were heard by many neighbors, including one named Herbert Klein. Here he is speaking with the media.

Many people heard Marina's blood-curling screams that day, including the doorman, Glenn Lutie. So he placed a call to 911. Hearing Marina's screams, the doorman, Mr. Luby, called 911. You will hear that 911 call.

you will hear Maria Crim's anguished and painful cries as she is on that landing, sobbing while he is making that call. You will learn that the super of the building, Mr. Michael Minahan, while Mr. Luby was making the call to 911, Mr. Minahan went to the Crim apartment to try to understand what had happened. And when he opened that bathroom door, he understood. He understood that what he had seen was pure evil.

And not knowing what else to do in that situation, Mr. Manahan ran to the front door of the apartment, held it shut with both hands, using his foot against the wall as leverage to keep inside what he had just seen.

Soon enough, a number of police vehicles surrounded the La Rochelle apartment complex, and with their guns drawn, they made their way up to the Crim's unit, 2FG. There, the super, Michael Minahan, was still holding the door shut, and he told the officers, "Whatever's behind that door is pure evil." Soon enough, the officers made their way inside, clearing every room along the way, until they finally made it to the bathroom, where Yaslin Ortega was bleeding out on the floor. The stab wound to her neck was deep, but she was still alive.

John the defendant in the bathtub were the bloody and lifeless bodies of Lucia and Leo Kramer. Despite the fact that everything in that bathroom indicated that Lulu and Leo were dead, the officers did what they were trained to do and they attempted to revive them. They tried to save them, but neither Lulu nor Leo had a pulse and Leo's body was already pulled.

The first responders had truly never seen anything like this before in their entire lives. One said it was the worst thing he had seen since 9/11. Even though these were small children, this was the bloodiest crime scene any of them had ever responded to. As one of them lifted Leo out of the bath, the officer said that he was so bloody, he felt like Leo might slip through his arms as he picked him up. At this point, EMTs finally arrived at the apartment and upon entering the bathroom,

They saw Jocelyn on the ground, but she was steadily breathing. So they turned their attention to the victims, Lulu and Leo. And so the EMTs and emergency services detectives, like the first responding officers on the scene, ignoring the hopelessness of the situation, immediately responded to the children and attempted life-saving measures. The children were taken out of the bathtub one at a time and placed on one adult-sized backboard where CPR and chest compressions were attempted.

Lucia and Leo Krim were pronounced dead at the scene, murdered by their family's nanny. 50-year-old Yacine Ortega was still alive but in critical condition. She was quickly taken to the hospital to treat the wound in her neck, but she would go on to make a full recovery.

As night fell upon New York City, the Upper West Side's 75th Street was still lined with red and blue lights of the first responders. Soon enough, Marina Krem and three-year-old Nessie emerged from the apartment complex. Officers had placed a white sheet over their heads to shield them from the media. And from here, they were taken to the hospital to be evaluated just from the trauma they had faced.

But outside of the Crim's apartment, New York City's police commissioner, Ray Kelly, addressed the media. I can tell you that about 5.30 this evening, a mother returned with her three-year-old child from swimming lessons. She enters her apartment. The apartment is dark. The apartment is dark, and she...

Comes a time when she goes looking for her children, enters the bathroom and finds her six-year-old daughter and her two-year-old son stabbed to death in the tub. On the floor of the bathroom is a nanny who apparently had inflicted wounds on her throat.

And she has been removed to St. Luke's Hospital. She's in critical but stable condition. Soon enough, Kevin Crim's plane would land in New York City, having no idea that while he was thousands of miles up in the sky, his children were being murdered by a woman they trusted. That night, Kevin would be reunited with his wife, an only surviving child.

Hoping to hold tight to the last family she had left, Marina told him "Kevin, we are not going to get divorced over this. Oprah always said people get divorced after they lose kids." Kevin would later tell the doctors that he wanted to see his children and from here, he and Marina were escorted into a small examination room. Lulu and Leo were both on a gurney

with a sheet wrapped tightly around their bodies, up to their chin. Nurses had attempted to clean the children, but Kevin noted that their coloring was off. He would later say, quote, "They were beautiful and strange. They were the wrong color. They didn't have any blood left in them, so they were bluish. But they had this perfect skin and their long eyelashes.

They had this like sandy brown hair. You could see they tried really hard to wash the blood out, but it still kind of had an auburn tint to it that I remember to this day. But I got down on my knees and I said, I'm sorry. I said, I love you and kissed them and said goodbye."

From that day on, the Crim's lives would never be the same. How could it? This is a woman that had been by their side in their home nearly every single day for the last two years. The betrayal they felt was insurmountable. So what exactly happened with Yoselin Ortega? What caused her to murder the children she vowed to protect? Well, as it turns out, this wasn't a spur-of-the-moment decision. She didn't snap, as we often hear in murder cases. She had planned this out.

On the morning of October 25th, 2012, Yovslin got up at 9 a.m. and sent her son off to school. From here, she gathered her insurance papers, bank account information, cash, and other legal documents and placed them in an envelope.

along with a suicide note. Then she left it out so that her sister would find it when she got home from work. That morning, she also asked her sister to make sure Jesus had a good meal that night. And then shortly before 3 p.m., she left her apartment to go to work, as she did every day. Now, along the way, Jocelyn disposed of her phone and investigators were actually never able to recover it. Ladies and gentlemen, the defendant was putting her affairs in order.

She put her affairs in order because she knew when she left for work on October 25, 2012, she would not be coming home. Her plan on October 25, 2012 was to kill the Krim children and then to kill herself.

Once Jocelyn arrived at the Crim's apartment, she made it seem like everything was okay, like it was an average day. She even grabbed Lulu's dance bag before she went to pick her up from school, even though she knew Lulu would never make it to dance class. But after driving to Lulu's school and picking her up, Jocelyn double-checked with the doorman to make sure that Marina wasn't home, and she wasn't.

So far, everything was going according to plan. In the elevator ride up to their unit, a neighbor said she noticed six-year-old Lulu smiling. So she leaned down and asked her, "Do you know how beautiful you are?" To which Lulu thanked her while flashing a big smile. The last few moments of happiness before their nightmare unfolded. Once they made it inside of the apartment,

Jocelyn grabbed the knife from their kitchen and walked the children over to the bathroom, where she then shut the door. From here, she approached two-year-old Leo and slit his throat. The cut was with enough force that the knife hit his spinal cord.

Six-year-old Lulu watched in horror as the woman she loved murdered her brother right in front of her. Scared for her life, Lulu tried to run, but she wouldn't make it far. The defendant brutally butchered both children, slitting their throats. The forensic evidence will prove to you that although Leo, two years old, was too small to struggle, Lulu was six years old and she fought back.

She knew what was happening, she understood what the defendant was doing, and she fought to live. Lulu did everything she could to defend herself against Jocelyn, but in return, she would be stabbed nearly 30 times. Most of the stab wounds were to her torso and neck, but some were in her hands.

Evidence that Lulu had lifted them up in the air to protect herself against her nanny. The wounds to both of their throats were so severe, many of the first responders would initially think that they had been decapitated. And it was later determined that Lulu and Leo Krim both died from exsanguination.

a term used to describe significant blood loss. This process is not quick, and it can often take several minutes for a person to die. Medical examiner Dr. Susan Ely said, "...only some of the knife wounds were fatal. That takes an order of minutes, not seconds. Bleeding to death takes minutes."

But after murdering them, Jocelyn placed their bodies in the bathtub and then just waited there, waiting for Marina to come home. Now, Jocelyn had plenty of time to kill herself before Marina arrived at the apartment. But according to the prosecution, she specifically waited because she wanted to see Marina's reaction to her murdered children lying in the bathtub.

She wanted to see the look in her eyes as the reality settled in. After all, Marina Krim had the life she always wanted, the life she would never get to have. And soon enough, Marina would walk into the devastating scene. And it wasn't until that moment when Jocelyn finally plunged the knife into her neck.

Once first responders arrived, they rushed her to the hospital where she was admitted under a different name due to the publicity surrounding the case. She arrived in critical but stable condition. There were two bones broken in her neck,

and she had damaged her vocal cords. And over the next few days, she remained incapacitated and unable to speak while police officers guarded her hospital room. But once Jocelyn was alert enough, she quickly asked for a pen and paper so she could write out her side of the story. And as if she couldn't be more of a monster, the first thing she wrote about was how much she disliked Marina Krimm.

In her first note, she wrote, quote, I had to do everything and take care of the kids. I worked as a babysitter only and she wanted me to do everything. She wanted five hours of cleaning every week.

Now, when I first read this, I was so disgusted because not only is she pretty much blaming the murders on Marina, but cleaning is a huge part of being a nanny. I worked as a nanny for many years. It was actually the job I had right when I started this podcast and I was constantly cleaning.

Children make a lot of mess, so that's just a part of the territory when you sign up for childcare. Plus, Jocelyn said she was cleaning about 5 hours of the 25 hour work week and that's pretty normal. I too would clean for about an hour a day for 5 days a week. So the fact that she was using this as an excuse as to why she murdered two children is pretty pathetic.

Plus, Jocelyn's complaining about how much work she had to do. But Marina was giving her all of this work to help her out. She knew she was struggling financially, so she was doing everything she could so that Jocelyn would have more money. She was being a good employer. And Jocelyn never once voiced any of these concerns to Marina. So how was she even supposed to know that Jocelyn was overwhelmed?

But like we mentioned, when Marina offered Jocelyn more work, it infuriated her. She didn't want more work. She wanted the life Marina had as a wealthy stay-at-home mom. Now, due to her inability to speak with investigators, they made a yes and no card for her to answer their questions.

Former Manhattan prosecutor Gregory B. Ledon said, She admitted that she had killed the kids and that she had used at least two knives. She indicated she was mad at the mom. New York Police Department Sergeant Joel Hidalgo was present during Yoselin's interrogation at the hospital, and he stated that she became angry if he didn't understand what she was trying to say, saying, When I got things wrong, she would make a grunting, gargling sound. She would tap on the railing. She would show frustration. Even small facial expressions she would make.

Now, once Yossan Ortega was cleared from the hospital, she was arrested and charged with two counts of first-degree murder and two counts of second-degree murder for the brutal slaying of Lulu and Leo Krim. And to everyone's surprise, she pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. And because of that, her trial wouldn't start until 2018, a grueling five years after the murders. Here's Kevin Krim speaking about the upcoming trial. Hi, everyone.

We're here to give you an update and to ask for your help. After five long years, the criminal trial in our case is getting started. And over the next few months, the story of Lulu and Leo and our whole family will be painfully in the news again. This trial will be very hard for us and for a lot of you. We feel like this community, all of you, have been with us all along through this whole experience. Even if you never met Lulu and Leo,

And Kevin was right. The murders of Lulu and Leo had gripped the nation, and everyone was ready for justice to be served. Yasin Ortega's trial would start on March 1st, 2018. And since it was such a high-profile case, reporters surrounded the courthouse every single day informing the community of the gruesome details that were coming to light.

At the trial, Jocelyn sat at the defense table with a large scar on her neck from her failed suicide attempt. It was healed now, but it was also a grim reminder of that horrible day back in 2012. Now, her defense team claimed that Jocelyn murdered Lulu and Leo because she was insane, and that the "devil made her do it." Jocelyn spoke with forensic psychiatrist Karen Rosenbaum and told her, "I felt like the devil was possessing me, wanting me to be his. The devil wanted me for himself."

Yoselin's family also took the stand in her defense and talked about how she had been complaining of hearing voices and seeing black shadows in the weeks before the murders, but many people believed that they lied under oath to cover for her. Yoselin's son even took the stand and behaved very inappropriately, at some points even winking at the jury. In the end, they were confident that this devil-made-me-do-it story would stick. Here's her defense attorney.

The evidence will show and the defense will prove by a preponderance of evidence that on October 25th, 2012, Yaseline Ortega, at or about 5 p.m., as a result of mental disease or defect, lacked substantial capacity to know or appreciate the nature and consequences of her acts, of her conduct.

The evidence will show that Ms. Ortega suffered on that date, at that time, and before that date, October 25, 2012, from a chronic mental illness. The evidence will show that she has a corroborated history of hearing voices and dissociating from reality since the age of 16. The defense will show that she suffered from three diseases.

discrete episodes of major depression, disorder, psychotic thinking, dissociation, auditory, visual, and command hallucinations, and tactile hallucinations. The most recent episode occurring in the months leading to and on October 25th, 12th.

for a brief period around her age of 16 years, Ms. Ortega has not been treated for her symptoms of psychosis and depression until she was hospitalized and diagnosed at New York Presbyterian Hospital. The defense will focus on the role that untreated mental illness played in the alleged killing of the two children, Leo and Lulu. The evidence will show that

what was in fact the condition of my client's mind at the time she allegedly committed the charged acts. The evidence will show her mind's reaction to various stimuli during the 50 years of her existence until October 25th, 2012. His Honor will instruct you to use your common sense when evaluating the adduced evidence. You will know a diseased mind when you see it.

Do listen to the medical experts, their definitions, their explanations, their explanations of my client's conditions, their reading of my client's medical records. Weigh what they say. See if it makes sense to each of you.

Seeing determined whether in the weeks and months leading up to October 25th, 12, my client was not sleeping, was not eating, was losing weight. See whether Ms. Ortega was constantly crying, suffering from visual hallucinations causing her to see shadows, suffering from delusions causing her to feel as though the devil were penetrating her body and trying to separate her from her family.

And Jocelyn was definitely struggling with mental illness prior to the murders, which is why she sought out counseling just days before. And like we mentioned earlier, there were several people that came forward and said that Jocelyn was not her normal self in the weeks leading up to everything. But the prosecution would make a pretty good argument against her insanity plea.

One point they brought up was that Jocelyn saw the psychologist before the murders, but she never once mentioned anything about hearing voices, being possessed by the devil, or anything about harming herself or others.

During the session, she mostly talked about how she was really overwhelmed with her circumstances. Even further, when Jocelyn woke up in the hospital after the murders, she didn't say anything about how the devil made her do it. Instead, she immediately started complaining about Marina and how much she made her clean. What didn't the defendant do when she woke up? She didn't mention the devil. She didn't ask...

"Where am I?" She didn't ask, "Why am I here?" She didn't ask, "Why am I shackled to the bed?" and "Why are you, Officer Hidalgo, a uniformed police officer assigned to be here with me?" She did not ask, "Where are Lulu and Leo?" Upon waking up in the hospital, the defendant did not ask one question about where she was, why she was there, or the well-being of the children.

Before she had time to think it through, come up with a defense, the defendant attempted to justify her actions, to explain the inexplicable. And her explanation in those honest, raw moments when she woke up in that hospital bed on October 27th, 2012, did not involve the devil. Instead, she complained about her work and she complained about Marina Prim. So if Yoselin really was insane, and her actions that day were influenced by the devil,

Why not say that right when you wake up? Another point the prosecution made against the insanity plea was that Yoselin carefully planned out this crime.

On the morning of the murders, she gathered all of her important documents, left cash, and wrote a suicide note so that everything would be in order for when she killed herself that day. She also got rid of her cell phone, likely so that she wouldn't be interrupted by Marina's phone calls while she was murdering her children.

The prosecution noted that Yoselin could have killed herself earlier in the evening, but she specifically waited until Marina opened that bathroom door just so she could see her reaction. The bodies of the dead children were carefully laid in the bathtub facing the same direction next to each other. They were not haphazardly discarded or left on the bathroom floor.

The defendant waited until after Marina Krim came home so that she could see Marina's reaction to the carnage in that bathroom before she attempted to kill herself. So with all of this, the prosecution claimed that Yoselin Ortega knew what she was doing and that it wasn't the devil that made her do it, but her own jealousy and resentment toward Marina Krim.

Why did this defendant commit these heinous and vicious crimes against these two innocent and defenseless children? Unfortunately, you may never have a satisfactory answer to that question. What the defendant did was not only inexcusable, it's inexplicable. So although there may not be an acceptable answer to the question, the evidence presented in this case, the evidence that will be presented in this case, does suggest some possibilities.

You will hear evidence that suggests that the defendant resented Marina Crim for being the mother that the defendant could not be, for being able to provide for her children what the defendant could not provide for her own son. That she resented Marina Crim for everything she was and everything she had.

you will learn that Marina Krim, aware that Jesus had come to New York to live with the defendant, aware that the defendant was under increased financial pressures, went out of her way to try and help the defendant to make additional income, offering her the opportunity to earn more money by doing some house cleaning at the Krim's apartment and suggesting the defendant to her friends who needed additional babysitting help.

The evidence will show that Marina's offers of assistance enraged the defendant, and that although the defendant maintained a professional and cordial demeanor when dealing directly with Marina, internally she seethed. She seethed at the very idea that Marina would think that she could do additional work. Seethed at the idea that Marina would even consider asking her to do additional work.

While the defendant's feelings of inadequacy about what she could and could not provide for her son increased, and as the defendant's feelings of anxiety and stress increased, so did her resentment toward Marina. The reason, the evidence will prove that the defendant was in control of her actions before, during, and after the murders, and that the defendant meticulously planned the murders of Ludo and Leo Crimp, which she executed on October 25th, 2012.

Throughout the trial, the 12 jurors had to sit and listen to all of the horrifying details surrounding the murders. They also had to look at pictures of 6-year-old Lulu and 2-year-old Leo's lifeless bodies face up in the bathtub.

which made a few of them weep. One juror named Chloe Beck would later say, "I really think that in cases like this there needs to be an on-call therapist for the jurors because we're not allowed to talk about this. I've had to sit in my apartment and just cry. I go through the motions of how did this happen? Who's to blame? Why did this happen?" After seeing the gruesome photos, one juror even had to be dismissed from the case. He told the judge that after seeing those pictures, he would be biased towards the defendant. That's how horrifying those photos were.

But following this, Judge Caro had to remind the jury to leave their emotions and biases out of it, saying, "Remember when we started selecting a jury and in the beginning of this case, I gave you certain instructions and I told you what your duties were as jurors. Essentially, your job as a jury is to evaluate the evidence.

And after that, you determine what the facts are and apply the law. But you'll recall I said things like prejudice, bias, and most certainly sympathy have to play no part in the fact-finding. You all know there was going to be some emotional testimony in this case. And that's why we empathized. You're going to feel sympathy and emotions. It's natural. But you've got to set those aside. Only find facts in your evaluation of the evidence.

During one day of the trial, after six hours of testimony, Marina Krem exploded and screamed out at Yoselin, "You're evil. You're evil and you like this. You're getting pleasure." From here, Marina was escorted out of the courtroom and Judge Caro had to remind the jurors that Marina's emotional outburst should not sway their judgment.

So as you can see, this was a very emotional trial for everyone. Everyone except Yoselin Ortega. Throughout the eight-week trial, she sat completely unfazed throughout it all. Emotionless. The only time you really saw anything from her were the darting looks she would give the prosecutors when they said something she didn't agree with.

But at the end of it all, the jury was faced with two possible situations. Was Jocelyn jealous of Marina Krim? Did she kill her children out of jealousy and resentment? Or was this the case of a psychotic episode? Was Jocelyn Ortega hearing voices, telling her to murder Lulu and Leo? When it came time for deliberations, everyone was on the edge of their seats.

This wasn't what they call a slam dunk case, but in April of 2018, the jury would ultimately side with the prosecution, finding Yoselin Ortega guilty of first degree and second degree murder charges against Lulu and Leo Krim, a verdict that many people around New York City were very pleased with. But there was still a very unsettling feeling about this entire story.

If this could happen to a wealthy family on the Upper West Side, it could happen to anyone. Many families in New York City hire nannies for their children, and it made everyone a little on edge about the people they were bringing into their homes. During the trial, it came out that Yoselin had actually lied on her resume. If you remember, she claimed she had worked for a woman named Yaclin Severino.

and that she nannied her son for years. Well, as it turns out, Jacqueline didn't have any children. She was Jocelyn's relative, and she lied to the Krems so that Jocelyn could secure a job with them, which is yet another disturbing part of this story. Moving forward, how could families trust anyone? How could they differentiate who is telling the truth and who isn't?

So in 2018, the governor signed a new law called Lulu and Leo's Law.

which made it illegal for someone to represent the applicant, the same way Yaclin Severino had done for Yoselin Ortega. The governor would later state the following: Lieutenant Governor Kathy Hochul added, quote,

I know how important it is to be able to trust individuals with caring for your children. Caregivers are supposed to protect our children from harm, and no parent should ever have to experience any misrepresentation or mistrust by those who are tasked to keep them safe. This legislation will help ensure that caregivers are honest about their background and assure parents that their children are in good hands."

and there were many nannies all over america that were very affected by this case and many of them just couldn't ever imagine a scenario where you would ever harm the child that you're watching

I know for the boy I nannied, he was my favorite little boy on earth. I was obsessed with him. I would have done anything for him. And same with their family. You really feel like a part of their family. You're going there every day. You're essentially helping them raise their children, which is a huge, huge responsibility. And it's an honor that these families are trusting you to come into their home and to be such a huge part of their kids' lives.

So there was a lot of mistrust going on and a lot of people that were just very cautious about the people they were bringing into their homes. The fact that someone could vow to love and protect your children and then murder them was pretty unbelievable. But luckily with this law, families felt a little bit more safe knowing that people can't lie just to get the job.

Which is pretty wild that they didn't already have that in place. At Yaslin Ortega's sentencing, Marina Krim had a lot to say. Not just to Yaslin, but also to her family, who continuously lied to everyone. Here's a clip of that. I'm here once again to finish this horrible chapter of my and my family's life. I wrote this statement knowing that in the future, Nessie will read this.

When she does, I want her to know that this crime was not just committed by one evil person. It was a conspiracy by an entire family of bad, unethical people. Inez Olivia Krim, the girl who lived. We call her Nessie. She's nine now. Happy, funny, confident, hard worker, loves school, amazing athlete. Can adapt to any situation you put her in with ease.

She's badass. Her third grade teacher emailed me the other day and told me that they're doing a unit on realistic fiction and they get to create a human and believable character. Nessie told me about hers. Her character's in fifth grade, has brown curly hair, and she's a mathematician. And her name is Lulu. Her Lulu character has many siblings, including a brother named Leo. Most of her character Lulu's traits, likes, and dislikes.

are similar to those of Nessie's because Nessie will never know what her sister and brother were like. Each time she makes a wish, it's always for Lulu and Leo to come back to be with us. As Nessie grows up, she will be asking Kevin and me deep, unanswerable questions about life that most parents avoid talking about with their kids. But we will try and answer her questions with sensitivity the best we can. No doubt,

that she will navigate herself through this complicated life with her authentic Nessie spunk. Nessie knows from experience that life is not fair, but she is inspired by Lou and Leo every day. And way up in the stars, they are inspired by her. The defendant robbed Nessie. Her family robbed Nessie. Fuck, we robbed her too. I've learned so much in the past five and a half years about myself, about people, and about human behavior.

My family and I, we create and build. The defendant and her family, they destroy and ruin. The defendant set out to destroy what Kevin and I had created and built. An inspired, happy, thriving family. But she failed. What actually happened is the defendant destroyed her own family. She has destroyed the pride her family once felt. She has destroyed any sense of peace they'll ever have.

We have seen the true colors of her and her family members because of this. There's a terrible pattern of terrible judgment. And lying and deceiving people is a way of life for this family. Any shred of dignity the defendant's family had after the murders has been destroyed. Over the past five and a half years, the defendant has shown not an ounce of remorse. Not a single one of her family members has ever reached out to my family to say, "I'm sorry for your loss."

Communication between people has never been easier. Yet we had heard nothing from this family. No email, nothing. Not a single one of them has said, "I'm sorry." The defendant's son, Jesus Frias, sat in front of the trauma-sized jury, winking and grinning at the jury members as if it were some kind of reality TV show he wants to win, and under oath, referred to the defendant's actions as an "accident."

Just to clarify for Jesus: disposing of a cell phone, packing two suicide bags the morning of, lurking around the neighborhood for 45 minutes to avoid crossing paths with me, and finally asking the doorman whether I was home so she could carry out her plan of slaughtering my two children. That is not what an accident is. That's delusional. In an accident, I'm cutting carrots with a sharp knife and it slips and I cut my finger.

Jesus Frias showed terrible judgment and there are consequences for making grossly irresponsible statements like this. Jesus says he's applied to 20 medical schools. Jesus Frias hasn't shown he even knows right from wrong and he's going to be making decisions about other people's lives? That is frightening. The defendant's son, Jesus Frias, has terrible judgment and is a phony.

The idea that this was an accident is a big problem for me. Because this was not an accident. And that word shows that this family still, after five and a half years, has still not taken responsibility for their roles in these murders. They are still trying to cover up for her and themselves. The terrible judgment of the defendant's family doesn't stop with Jesus. They just can't seem to do the right thing.

Sister Celia Ortega, she's the liar who started this whole nightmare. Seeking me out, looking me in the eyes, telling me that the defendant was an experienced nanny. Niece Jackie Severino Vargas followed this lie up with a fake recommendation written from her legit work email address. This detailed recommendation convinced us that the defendant had good experience.

These unethical women deceived me from the very first moments our paths crossed. Delcy Ortega, she made up absurd stories about the defendant that came out only after she meets their ridiculous defense attorney. Melades Ortega gets phone calls about mass penitence and blames me for not sending the defendant on a vacation. This entire family continues to lie and deceive their way through this.

And look at the so-called lawyers and experts they've surrounded themselves with, discussing people who seem to have fallen for their lies, or perhaps even added to them. What is wrong with them? The defendant's family conceals deep, dark family secrets from employers, acquaintances, people in their community, people they interact with every single day. They've lost jobs and ruined reputations because of their lies.

The defendant and her family, they destroy and ruin. My family and I, we create and build. We've shown Nessie and Felix and Linus how to do the same. We've built a deeper bond with each other and have a stronger marriage than ever. We've built stronger friendships. Patiently and with great determination, we've rebuilt our lives. My family and I, we create and build. The defendant may think she destroyed Lulu and Leo,

But she's a failure in this too. Lou and Leo are powerful forces. They're two stars now that will always lead us forward. Thank you. Next to speak was Kevin Krim. He went on to talk about his children and the way they touch so many people's lives and how they often called themselves Team Krim. I can't talk about Team Krim, about our three wonderful children, without talking about our enormous, devastating, overwhelming grief.

Marina and I are heartbroken, and we know all of you share very deeply in our rock game. We are distraught because Lulu and Leo, these beautiful and innocent souls, were only with us for six and two years respectively, blinked of an eye. We are certainly distraught over how they died, over the terrible violence, the lack of any sense of adult. We miss them so, so much. Marina and I already miss the little things the most,

We miss picking Leo up out of his crib with a happy mama or dada from him and always a big hug. We miss watching Lulu pick out her own clothes, helping her with a button or a skirt. We miss holding their hands as we walk down the sidewalk. We miss attempting to argue them out of a Mr. Softy cone and losing most of the time. We miss taking little walks through the ramble in Central Park that became Great Acorn or Leaf Collecting Expedition.

We miss hearing them call out my name and run to hug me when I got home from work. We miss feeling their soft skin in our arms. How do we not miss Lou everywhere we turn? She was a city girl, a beach girl, a country girl, a mountain girl. And how do we not miss Leo everywhere we look? He who loved learning the name of everything he saw. Here we were in bustling New York City, the center of the world, with excuses to be out every night, and all Marina and I wanted to do was be at home making dinner with the kids.

We just wanted to hang out with our kids. They were such cool kids. We are confident we made the most of every minute with our kids. I hope all of you do too with yours. We have no regrets. But Marina, Nessie and I, and I believe all of us, are most distraught that we won't have Lulu and Leo with us for the rest of our lives. We are so sad that we won't get to see them grow up. I had simple fantasies of proudly cheering Lulu and Leo on as they became these great people.

I didn't care what they did. I knew they'd be great. It is so unfair that they are going. Unfair to them, unfair to us, unfair to the world. Judge Cara, this defendant and her defense rejected two plea-barring offers from the opinion. Marina and I were against these offers, as you know. But we also knew she would undoubtedly reject them because...

being the malignant narcissist that she is, she would never accept responsibility and say aloud in front of this court that she was guilty. We also knew she wanted to put Marina and the rest of us through the pain of this trial and it was awful. Awful and wrong that the jury had to go through that, that everyone in this court every day had to go through that. And let's be sure everyone listening today acknowledges and never forgets this. It was a disorderly

callous, venal, crass, manipulative, indecent, ignorant, self-engrossed, pointless, shameless, and at its core, an utterly dishonest and brutally cruel defense. It's hard to know which parts came from whom, the defendant or her defense attorneys, but it was all of a piece.

We were against the plea bargains because we didn't want to have to tell Nessie that the evil monster that killed her sister and brother would have a chance someday of going free and seeing her sisters and son again. Nessie does not deserve to have that hanging over her. So Judge Caro, I trust that you do not need this request from Lululemo's dad. After all you've heard and seen, but I will make it anyway.

In your sentencing decision, please follow the law as you always have and feed the unanimous opinion of the jury and that of the good people of the city and state of New York and of Lulu and Leo's family and friends around the world by ensuring that the defendant can never leave prison alive. The defendant knows nothing of responsibility or remorse. She should also know nothing of hope.

The defendant is an evil and utterly dangerous narcissist and a complete failure. It is right that she should live and rot and die in a concrete and metal cage, like the ugly dark shadow of Lulu and Leo's bright, shiny lights. And more importantly, it is right that she will go from being hated by the world to being forgotten by the world before she's even dead.

Following this, Yoselin Ortega was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Judge Caro described her actions as pure evil and agreed with the jurors' findings that she should be held responsible despite her defense of insanity. Here is Judge Caro speaking directly to Yoselin at her sentencing. There's no doubt that...

Your untreated mental illness plays a significant role in your fatal decisions for those children. But, you know, as I say untreated, not because New York State doesn't have facilities or services for anyone suffering mental illness to seek treatment, but you failed and your family failed

in their responsibility and your responsibility to seek treatment for your mental illness. And your attorney just said that you're not on medication because whatever belief you had, you don't think you need it, you don't think you're never going to be ill. That's not what you told probation. You told probation that you don't feel guilty, too many doctors see you, and you are very sick, that you suffer from depression.

And it's pretty clear you suffer from major depression, anxiety disorders. That's pretty clear. And normally someone who suffers a mental illness commits a crime that they're responsible for. But it's an intentional crime. You knew it was wrong. You knew the nature and consequences of your act. But that still is some mitigation to the crime that someone may commit because they suffer mental illness.

But your failure to see all these years, treat for your man's reference nullifies that litigation. And I should say there's no evidence whatsoever that this jury did anything but follow my instructions on the law and decide this case based upon the facts that they found and the rules of law that I set out. I really can't sum up this case

this tragic case any better than the witness, Mr. Minahan, purely what he said. So it is a sense of this court that on the two counts of murder in the second degree that we've been found guilty of, that you be sentenced to the maximum level of the law on each one of those counts, minimum 25 years, a maximum of the rest of your life. Those sentences to run consecutively.

for a total of 50 years to the rest of your life. And it's virtually, in this case, Paul cries out for consecutive sentences. So any sentence that I will impose on you is virtually the rest of your life. So on your conviction for murder in the first degree, two counts, you're sentenced to the maximum penalty of the rest of your life and stay in prison with no possibility of parole. That is the sentence.

After Judge Caro's sentencing, Yacine Ortega spoke openly for the first time. She also showed emotion for the first time since the trial started. She spoke in Spanish, but an interpreter was there to relay her message. I'm very sorry for everything that happened. I hope that no one will go through what I have gone through. Please don't let people wish me all the worst.

My life was in the hands of God. I am a child. But perhaps there are many more that are more important than I am. I ask for a great deal of forgiveness. God, I'm a leader. Together. I wish my family

I told my family that I did not feel well. At one time when I was walking, I had poodles. I told my family that I didn't feel good. And she would say, what's wrong? I had to go to the bathroom. I went to the bathroom.

I don't know.

Many jurors from this trial have spoken out about the emotional toll this case took on them. One juror stated that she even fears taking a bath after seeing the images of Lulu and Leo in the bathtub.

Others said they have issues sleeping. 52-year-old juror David Curtis said, "...it was gut-wrenching. I had nightmares related to losing something important to me or not being able to find my family. It truly affected me."

57-year-old juror Edgardo Chacon said it was the face of Lulu that he sees almost every night, saying, quote, I was there for 33 days, and every night I think about Lulu. I don't know why it was on my mind, but it was not fair. It's not fair what she did to those kids, end quote. But the people affected the most by this tragedy are obviously Kevin and Marina Krem,

Picking up the pieces of their lives after this devastating loss is something no parent ever prepares for, but they have dedicated their lives to finding meaning amongst tragedy.

Marina Krem said that since her children passed, she has found a deeper spiritual connection to them. Right after the murders, she was walking through New York City and she saw a piece of street art of a young boy holding a sign with all of these colorful hearts. And she thought of Leo and all the hearts he touched during his short life. Marina said, quote, I felt that maybe the universe was trying to tell me something, unquote.

Another time, she was walking along the beach and she passed a house that was playing the Peanuts theme song, a song she often played for Lulu and Leo. So as their lives went on, little reminders of their children were everywhere.

During her first Mother's Day without Lulu and Leo, Marina had a moment of clarity about what she wanted to do going forward. She said, On the first Mother's Day after their death, I had an idea. On our last vacation together, Lulu and I had collected dozens of large sand dollars from the beach. I spent this Mother's Day hanging up those sand dollars for display on an empty wall in our apartment. It was a simple way to express myself, feel present, and connect with Lulu and Leo on a really tough day.

It was a little moment of creativity, a way she could honor her own children. And in that moment, Marina and Kevin realized how important creativity is, not only in the lives of children, but for everyone.

They would later write, As the parents of Lulu and Leo, we know that art and nature played a critical role in their short, beautiful lives and in the life of our surviving daughter, Nessie. We believe that every child on this planet deserves a deep engagement with art, nature, and creativity that our children had. So they used this idea to create the Lulu and Leo Fund.

So a lot of people have been asking us how they can help, how they can support us during this really horrible time. And we thought about it and we realized that we're going to handle this the way we've handled everything. We're going to focus on the positive and the goodness that's come out of all this. When you hear about us on the news or we come up in conversation,

We want you to tell people about the Lulu & Leo Fund and the Choose Creativity Initiative and the 10 Principles of Creativity. This is the legacy of Lulu & Leo and this is what matters. So this is how you can help us. So Nessie, Felix and Linus are here to tell you what the Lulu & Leo Fund and Choose Creativity are all about. The Lulu & Leo Fund is a non-profit that supports creative education

It was inspired by my sister and brother Lulu and Leo. They loved being creative. Choose Creativity is our flagship initiative that empowers kids and adults through a curriculum to engage with the 10 principles of creativity to build resilience, creative confidence, and social-emotional skills. Authentic! Resourceful! Curious! Conventional! Patient!

Okay, okay, okay. I have a question, I have a question. Who knows the Choose Creativity message? Felix! Yeah! High five! That was awesome!

I want everybody to know that they're creative and creativity is inside them forever. Practice creativity like it's a sport. The more practice, the better you get. That's what the 10 principles are for. To remind you how to live your life with creativity.

Kids and teachers in every school in our country can be engaging with the principals and using the Choose Creativity curriculum to ensure that this generation of kids and the adults in their lives have the creative confidence to face whatever life throws at them. That is how we honor Lulu and Leah.

And remember, Choose Creativity is equal parts choose and creativity. In the face of destructive things like violence, anger, and fear, creativity is a positive act of defiance. You can use this in your lives. You can be inspired by this. And you can help us by sharing Choose Creativity with everyone you know.

In the years after the murders, Kevin and Marina would go on to have two more children. One is Felix, who was born in 2013, and the other is Linus, who was born in 2016. It's hard for Marina and Kevin to come to terms with the fact that their two youngest sons will never know their siblings. But every day when they look into their eyes, they can see Lulu and Leo living through them.

Marina would later say that Felix will often cry during sad parts in movies, just like his older sister Lulu used to do. He's sensitive, just like her. And Linus, their other son, is the spitting image of his older brother Leo. In fact, when he sees pictures of Leo, he will often say, "Me." Marina herself says that she even has a hard time telling them apart in pictures.

But throughout it all, Marina and Kevin say that their role model from the very beginning has been Nessie. She walked through that horrible day with them, and she too had to see her little brother and sister murdered. But despite everything, Nessie was the one that helped their family stay strong.

Marina would later write, "I remember looking at our daughter Nessie in the darkest days, and I so admired her ability to just live in the present, seeing the world just as one should. To me, it seemed like she had all the answers. Though she missed her siblings, she was laughing and enjoying herself and making every heart person in the room smile.

So from here, Marina and Kevin gave themselves permission to live their life like Nessie does, and everything they would do from here forward would be to honor Lulu and Leo and help other children along the way.

Marina and Kevin would later write, "When we lose someone we love, we should remember that the person has not become nothing. Something cannot become nothing, and nothing cannot become something. Science can help us understand this, because matter cannot be destroyed. It can become energy. And energy can become matter, but it cannot be destroyed.

In the same way, our loved one was not destroyed. They've just taken on another form. That form may be a cloud, a child, or the breeze. We can see our loved one in everything.

Hey everybody, it's Colin here. Thank you so much for tuning in for another week of Murder in America. Now, this story is incredibly disturbing. I could not believe the details of this case when Courtney first shared them with me. And I mean, just wow, this is a shocking, shocking story. It's just terrible for everybody involved. But I'm going to

I want to thank our new patrons this week.

Christina Trent, Heather Tichy, Chantel Aiders, Anne Nolan, Brandi DeCherlia, Sean Roberts, Elle, and Kimberly Milliman. Oh my God, thank you so much. I'm so sorry if I messed up anybody's names. We are still just getting through weeks and weeks of patrons. I mean, we don't have enough time here on the outro to thank everybody, but we're going to get to your name if you signed up.

If you want to become a patron, just head to our Patreon. If you donate $5 a month, you get access to every episode early and ad free for $10. You get all that plus two bonus episodes of the podcast a month. And if you're a $20 patron, you get four bonus episodes of the show every single month, along with the episodes early and ad free. We are so thankful for everybody that has become patrons. We're growing a family on there and we love y'all so much.

Also, follow us on Instagram at Murder in America to see photos from every single case that we cover on the show. And yeah, once again, Courtney and I just wanted to send our love to y'all. We love you guys so much. And as always, we will catch you next week on the next episode. Well, well, well, a visitor.

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EP. 124 NEW YORK - The Nanny From Hell: The Murders Of 6 & 2 Year Old Lucia and Leo Krim

Murder In America

Chapters

Who was Yoselin Ortega and how did she become the nanny for the Krim family?

What were the signs of Yoselin Ortega's deteriorating mental state before the murders?

How did the day of the murders unfold for the Krim family and Yoselin Ortega?

What was the immediate aftermath and response to the murders by the authorities and the community?

How did the Krim family cope with the loss and what initiatives did they start in memory of Lulu and Leo?

Shownotes Transcript

PodQuest PodQuest Podcast Discovery Engine tailors playlist for your curiosity

EP. 124 NEW YORK - The Nanny From Hell: The Murders Of 6 & 2 Year Old Lucia and Leo Krim 01:44:21 Share

Murder In America

Chapters

Who was Yoselin Ortega and how did she become the nanny for the Krim family?

What were the signs of Yoselin Ortega's deteriorating mental state before the murders?

How did the day of the murders unfold for the Krim family and Yoselin Ortega?

What was the immediate aftermath and response to the murders by the authorities and the community?

How did the Krim family cope with the loss and what initiatives did they start in memory of Lulu and Leo?

Shownotes Transcript

PodQuest PodQuest Podcast Discovery Engine tailors playlist for your curiosity

EP. 124 NEW YORK - The Nanny From Hell: The Murders Of 6 & 2 Year Old Lucia and Leo Krim