EP. 78 INDIANA - The Delphi Murders (PT. 2): @Anthony_Shots And The Kegan Kline Developments 01:06:35

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Warning. The following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects. Trigger warnings from the stories we cover may include violence, rape, murder, and offenses against children. This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned.

Back in 2017, in a small town called Delphi, Indiana, two teenage best friends named Abigail Williams and Liberty German were found murdered after going on a hike near the Monon High Bridge in town.

After finding their bodies, law enforcement released a video that Liberty took of her attacker in hopes that someone out there would recognize him. They also released audio of him ordering the girls down the hill. Many people refer to this man as the bridge guy. And over the last five years, millions of people have studied him. They've looked at his clothing, the way he walks, the composite sketch.

They've played the audio of his voice over and over again, hoping to recognize him. But all of these years later, he is yet to be identified. In last week's episode, we walked you through the murders of Abby and Libby, the two composite sketches of the bridge man, the tight-lipped investigation, and most of the persons of interest associated with the case. But at the end, we briefly mentioned a man named Kagan Klein,

A man that many people think of when discussing the Delphi murders. The 27-year-old came into the spotlight when investigators discovered that he had been using a fake social media profile under the name Anthony underscore shots to exploit underage girls. And one of his victims was Liberty German.

In fact, he was one of the last people to communicate with her before she was murdered. Now, Kagan has not been charged with the murder of Abby and Libby, but in this week's episode, we are going to take a deep dive into who he is and why many people, including law enforcement, believe he is connected to the case. This is the story of the Delphi murders. Anthony underscore shots, a.k.a. Kagan Klein.

I'm Courtney Brown. And I'm Colin Brown. And you're listening to Murder in America. Murder in America

Before we start this episode, we want to remind everyone that no one has been charged with the murders of Abby and Libby, and all of the people we mention are just persons of interest until law enforcement tells us otherwise. No one is guilty until proven guilty in a court of law, so everything we discuss is simply a discussion of the facts that have been released to the public. It's also possible that the people we discuss in today's episode have nothing to do with the murders.

Like we mentioned, the public only knows very small amounts of this investigation, and we're sure that more details will be uncovered over the years. But as for now, this is what we know.

Back in 2019, two years after the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German, police released their new updated composite sketch of the bridge man, who they believe murdered the two teenage girls. But after that new sketch was released, there wasn't much happening in the case. Law enforcement hadn't released any other details and to the public, it seemed like the case was growing colder and colder. But then,

On December 6th, 2021, after over a year of silence, the Indiana State Police dropped a bombshell when they released a late-night YouTube video with the new developments in the Delphi murder case. In the video, they asked the public to come forward if anyone had interacted with the social media profile Anthony underscore shots. My name is Sergeant Jeremy Pierce, the public information officer with the Indiana State Police out of Lafayette Post.

While investigating the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German, detectives with the Carroll County Sheriff's Office and the Indiana State Police have uncovered an online profile named Anthony Schatz. This profile was being used from 2016 to 2017 on social media applications including but not limited to Snapchat and Instagram. The fictitious Anthony Schatz profile used images of a known male model

and portrayed himself as being extremely wealthy and owning numerous sports cars. The creator of the fictitious profile used this information while communicating with juvenile females to solicit nude images, obtain their address, and attempt to meet with them. Pictured on your screen, you'll see images of the known male model and images of the fictitious profile sent to the underage females.

we have already identified the male in these images that were used by Anthony Schatz. The male in the photo is not the person of interest in the investigation. Detectives are seeking information about the person who created the Anthony Schatz profile.

Investigators would like any individual who communicated, met, or attempted to meet the Anthony Schatz profile to contact law enforcement by utilizing the TIP email: Please provide as much information as you possibly can. For example, when you communicated with Anthony Schatz, how you communicated with the profile,

what social media applications the account used, and if Anthony Schatz attempted to meet you or obtain your address. If you have saved images or conversations with Anthony Schatz's profile, please attach them to your email. Again, if you have any information, please contact law enforcement by utilizing the tip email, abbyandlibbytip at c-a-c-o-s-h-r-f dot com. Thank you.

And this announcement took everyone by surprise. Catfishing stories are, unfortunately, not uncommon. But I don't think anyone suspected that to be a part of this story. The very next day after this Anthony Schatz account was released to the public, Wish TV out of Indianapolis announced the name of the man behind the account.

27-year-old Kagan Klein. Now, his name is spelled like Keegan, but according to the Murder Sheet podcast, his father pronounced it as Kagan, so that is how we will pronounce it. But it turns out that at the time of this announcement in December of 2021, Kagan had already been in jail for over a year. In fact, he was arrested on August 19th of 2020,

on 30 felony counts of possession of child pornography, child exploitation, obstruction of justice, and synthetic identity deception. So who is Kagan Klein? And how is he connected to the Delphi murder investigation? And to answer that, we need to take you all the way back to 2017, on the day that Abby and Libby's bodies were discovered.

It was a little past noon on February 14th, 2017, when volunteers found Abby and Libby's bodies near Deer Creek on the Delphi Historic Hiking Trails. Over the years, investigators haven't released much information about the crime scene, but to recap last week's episode, the girls' bodies were, in fact, moved after they were killed. Their bodies were also staged in a way that is still unknown to the public.

There were at least three different signatures at the crime scene, which are specific behaviors displayed by the killer. He also took two articles of clothing from one of the girls as a souvenir. There was some sort of DNA left at the scene, but the quality of that DNA is unknown. And although a cause of death has never been revealed, it is known that the girls lost a significant amount of blood, so it's likely that they were either stabbed or bludgeoned.

We also know that Libby's phone was at or near the crime scene because investigators were able to look through it and find the video Libby took of the man on the bridge.

But that wouldn't be all that they would find in Libby's phone. Like most investigations, authorities were interested at looking into the people that Liberty had been in contact with around the murders. After all, we know that most murders aren't random, and taking a look into her phone could give them some leads. And eventually, we know that authorities found that Libby had been into contact with a man named Anthony underscore Schatz.

In fact, the two had talked just hours before she was murdered.

Now, it's unclear exactly how Libby and Anthony Schatz came into contact with one another, but it's assumed that he found her on social media, added her, and struck up a conversation. And if you were to take a look at Anthony's profile, you would find a very fit, attractive, and rich young man. His Instagram bio read, New account, follow me, Alaska born, Indiana raised, travel living, L-A-N-Y business travel.

Most of the pictures he posted were mirror pictures, showing off his tattoos and washboard abs, or photos of his garage with about eight exotic cars in the caption: "Which one should I drive?" One picture shows the dashboard of a Ferrari with the caption: "I hate how long it takes to warm up." Another picture shows stacks of thousands of dollars in cash. And for a second, I want you to picture your life back when you were in eighth grade.

At that age, you're new to the flirting and dating game and any type of attention from someone you found attractive was literally the most exciting thing in the world.

And again, we don't know how Libby and Anthony Schatz came into contact, but I can imagine that when Liberty looked at his profile and saw that he was this attractive young man with a lot of money, she was excited. I know I would have been at her age. Now, eventually, the two started communicating with one another on Instagram and Snapchat. And I can imagine that as the police are looking through Libby's phone, they want to talk to this Anthony Schatz guy.

Especially since he was one of the last people to talk to her before she was murdered. Police also start talking to the people close to Libby. One of her friends told investigators that Libby had been talking to Anthony Schatz and that she was very into him. She even said that she had been talking about wanting to meet him. And according to the transcript that we will discuss later on,

This same friend actually messaged Anthony Schatz right after the murders. Here is how that conversation went about. Hey, did you hear what happened to Libby? Oh my god, what happened? She and Abby were found murdered on a hiking trail.

And I'm sure hearing this, investigators were even more suspicious of Anthony Schatz than before. Not only was he one of the last people to speak to her, but he also admitted to her friend that they agreed to meet up.

Now, in this day and age, there is always a digital trail. And I'm sure it wasn't hard for investigators to track the IP address of the accounts and find exactly where this Anthony Schatz was located. And we know this because on February 25th, 2017, just 12 days after the murders, the police raided a home in Peru, Indiana.

the very home of a man named Kagan Klein and his father, Jerry Anthony Klein. During this search, police confiscated nearly half a dozen devices and found over 100 sexually explicit photos and videos

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Now, keep in mind, at the time of this raid, the public didn't even know about this Anthony Schatz account. And Peru, Indiana is about 40 minutes away from Delphi, so this raid wasn't groundbreaking news in terms of developments in the case. There was one reporter named Megan Holden from the Journal Inquirer that covered a story on this raid, but in it, FBI agent Bob Ramsey says, we in no way believe he is connected to the murder of those girls. And with that, the public didn't pay much attention to the raid.

Now, it's unclear why he was so confident in this response, because what we will discuss a little later will prove that law enforcement does indeed think Kagan Klein could somehow be connected to these murders. But maybe they just didn't think so at the time.

But after the police raided the home in Peru, Indiana, they brought Kagan in for questioning. The interview began at 1:25 p.m. and was led by Indiana State Police Sergeant Kunstig and FBI Special Agent Willman. And of course, they started off by reading him his Miranda rights, and Kagan agreed to speak with them without a lawyer present. In this interview, like many, I'm sure they start by establishing a rapport.

What's your name? Where are you from? What kind of job do you have? Etc. And then, after that, they bring up the hard questions. And when investigators ask Kagan about the Anthony Schatz account,

He initially denies creating it, thinking he could talk his way out of it. But eventually, after presenting the evidence against him, he admits that he created the account so that he could talk to underage girls. Now, he couldn't use his own pictures to talk to these girls because, let's face it, he is not attractive.

And he looks a lot older than the girls he was trying to talk to. And we will post a picture of him on our Instagram and you will see that he looks nothing like the pictures he was using on the Anthony Schatz account.

But during this interview, he admits that he created the account about six months earlier. Which is almost inaccurate. Records show that he actually created the Anthony Schatz Snapchat account on July 14th, 2016 and the Instagram account on July 20th, 2016. So he had been using the account to exploit underage girls for about seven months at the time of the interview.

He also mentions that he uses this account to catfish girls that he does know personally, as well as girls that he doesn't know. But all of them think he's this male model. Yeah, and as for the random girls that he talks to, he usually meets them on Instagram. And it's not clear how he finds them, but I'm assuming it's through mutual friends of other young girls he talks to because most of them are centered around Indiana.

But as you know by now, Kagan has a preference for minors. So after searching through Instagram, when he finds a girl that looks young enough, he will message them. And because of their age and vulnerability, these girls don't realize that the person on the account is not the actual person in the pictures.

Now, Kagan tells investigators that after he and the girls chat on Instagram for a while, he will give them his Snapchat.

And if you aren't aware, Snapchat is an app where you can send pictures back and forth to someone. But after someone opens the picture, it goes away forever, unless someone screenshots it or sends it through the chat. And Kagan told investigators that he used this app to talk to at least 15 girls, all of whom were underage. He also stated that he received sexually explicit photos from all of them and saved the photos onto his phone.

Many of these pictures were then saved onto Kagan's Dropbox. And I just want to take a second to talk about how scary it is that these young and vulnerable girls think that they're talking to this cute and nice guy that's giving them attention. And then after he talks with them for a while and gains their trust, he convinces them to send nude photos.

And when they do, they have no idea that the real man behind the account is this nasty guy. But after discussing all of this with investigators, they give Kagan a polygraph. In it, he admits to receiving pictures of minors' breasts, vaginas, butts, and girls in bras and panties. He also admits to receiving about 20 videos of these girls masturbating.

And according to a transcript that we will discuss later, they also ask him about the Delphi murders. I can imagine they asked him all of the questions, like were you involved in the murders? Do you know who was involved in the murders? Are you connected in any way? And according to investigators, Kagan failed the polygraph. After the polygraph ended around 7:30 pm, they allowed him to go home.

Once back at his dad's house, he walks inside and according to Kagan himself, he notices that investigators left behind his iPhone, which was the main phone he was using at the time. Now, I don't know if this was an actual mistake on investigators part or if they purposefully left it there to see what he would do, but after finding it in the kitchen, at 9:19pm,

Kagan goes on his phone and uninstalls and deletes both Snapchat and Instagram. The next day, he uninstalled and deleted an app called MeetMe, which he also used to talk to underage girls. Then that same day, he reinstalls Snapchat to make sure all of the incriminating stuff is deleted, and then he deletes it again. Then, after everything is deleted and he thinks he's in the clear,

Kagan calls law enforcement to inform them that they forgot his iPhone in the search. Yeah, so Kagan thinks that this looks good on his part since he's turning in a phone that they forgot. But I don't think he realizes that they can see all of his activity on that phone.

even if he deletes it. So this makes him look even more guilty. And the Anthony Schatz account is not the only account he used to talk to underage girls. Investigators also found a device with two different profiles. The first was Kagan's and the second was of a female named Emily Ann 45, who appeared to be Kagan's stepsister. - Now we wanna start by saying that the person behind the account was not his actual stepsister.

And Kagan would later admit to creating the account himself. Now, this part gets a little confusing, but Kagan would sometimes use this account to talk to other young girls, and he would pretend that he was their age and chat with them, I guess to gain their trust.

But in other instances, he would use this account to exchange child pornography with other users. Now, the Emily Ann account was made before the Anthony Schatz account and we are going to talk about some of the things that were found on this profile but warning, it is extremely disturbing. On May 17th, 2016, someone messaged Emily Ann wanting to receive quote,

9-13 fuck videos. In return, the Emily Ann account sends a picture of a 14 year old girl exposing her chest. In another instance, a 45 second video was sent to this account of a young girl aged 4-7

who was being assaulted by an unidentified male. And investigators are seeing that these images and videos are being shared from Kagan's Dropbox to these people chatting with the Emily Ann account. So these disgusting men are somehow finding each other and using apps like Kik to exchange child pornography.

And in Kagan's case, he has an entire stash full of underage girls. And something else that investigators found was that within this Emily Ann account and the Anthony Schatz account,

there was more than one person using it. Now, this gets a little confusing, but everyone has a specific way they text. And after looking at the accounts, experts determined that there were major speech and phrasing discrepancies throughout the chat. One minute, it was clear that one person was chatting with the girls and exchanging child pornography. And then the next minute, it was someone completely different.

but they were both using the same account. Investigators were also able to look at the phone records and see that two different devices were being used in the same house on the same wifi to communicate with these girls. And it just doesn't make sense that someone would be logging in and out on different devices if it was just one guy. Meaning there had to have been two people using the account to communicate with them.

And the only other person in the home with Kagan was Kagan's father, Jerry Anthony Klein, who goes by Tony. Now, it's important that we mention Tony because he quickly gets dragged into this case after the raid on his home.

You see, after investigators found the Emily Ann account, they found some disturbing chats with other users. In one conversation, they see that Emily Ann is pretending to be Kagan's stepsister and she's talking with this user about how she had sex with her stepbrother and stepfather

at the same time. Now, keep in mind, Kagan would later admit to creating this account. So why is he pretending to be his stepsister bragging about a threesome with him and his own father? Is it just a fantasy of his? We don't really know. But this mention of his father definitely raised some questions about Tony's role in these chats.

In another instance, Emily Ann is talking to an underage girl and saying things like "My dad wants to know how old you are. My dad wants to know about your sexual experiences. My dad is wondering if it's wrong to like a girl your age." And he even asks the minor if she would like to join a Skype call to watch their dad masturbate.

So, to me, which this is just speculation, but it either seems like an older man is asking a girl this to test the waters to see if she would be interested in these sexual experiences with an older man, or that Kagan and his dad are sitting together and talking to this girl, which both are just so strange and disturbing. And it begs the question, was

Was Tony Klein the other person communicating with these girls on the social media profile? Seeing that there were two different people using the accounts within the Klein household, it's definitely possible.

Now, we got all of this information from the transcript that the Murder Sheet podcast discovered, and they did such an in-depth dive into this case, so make sure to check them out. But now that Tony Klein is brought into this child pornography investigation, along with his son, it makes you wonder about who he is. And the Murder Sheet podcast dug up a lot of information from Tony's past, and we're going to share some of that with you.

Some of the major things that stuck out from Tony's record had to do with an incident in June of 2005 when Tony was charged with battery for assaulting a woman a few months older than him. There isn't a lot of information about this incident, but according to the Murder Sheet podcast who pulled up these records, Tony assaulted this woman, causing bodily injury and swelling, bumps, and abrasions to this woman's forehead. Now, he did this in front of six people, including the woman's 11-year-old daughter, a

A few days after this, he was arrested but eventually posted bail. Now, the court did issue an order, making it to where he was not allowed to contact the woman he assaulted. But about a month later, the woman reported that Tony was actually stalking her 11-year-old daughter, the one who witnessed the assault. The mom would later write in a petition: "Mr. Klein and another man saw my daughter on her bike, followed her, stalked her, and watched her. They were in his truck.

Now, this says a lot about Tony Since he wasn't able to contact the mother, he decided to go after and intimidate her child And after hearing this, the court granted a protective order for the woman and her daughter Now, when this battery charge went to trial, Tony ended up pleading guilty And he was sentenced to a year in jail But it was eventually suspended And all he had to do was be on probation for a year and complete an anger management course And now we're going to take one more ad break

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Once again, that's HelloFresh.com slash State16. You don't want to miss out on this service. Amazing food. Now, let's get back to today's story. A few years later in 2009, he was hit with another charge that was also extremely disturbing. The year prior, in 2008, at least two different women in Indiana were being harassed by Tony Klein over the phone.

The Murder Sheet podcast mentioned one of these incidents that we will explain. According to this woman, she randomly got a call from a number she wasn't familiar with. When she answered the call, a man on the other line began to moan, asking if she could "get him off" and it was clear that he was masturbating on the other end. When police traced the number, it led them straight to Tony Klein.

And when they questioned him about it, he admitted to making the calls. And one would think that getting caught by the police would make him stop. But he doesn't. Tony continued to call and harass this woman. So the next time she answered the phone, she asked if it was Tony and he said yes, it was. A few months later, he called her several more times.

And again, he was moaning and masturbating over the phone. And this time, when she called the police, Tony was finally arrested for harassment. And he was charged with another harassment charge in a different county for the same thing. But he would only be sentenced to probation. Now, this in and of itself is extremely alarming and very telling of the kind of person he is.

It's also interesting that we can see a pattern of both Kagan and his father using their phones to commit non-contact sexual offenses. These are not to be taken lightly, and in some cases, people who commit these type of offenses can escalate. The Murder Sheet podcast was also able to talk with Tony Klein's ex-stepchildren in their episode titled, Who is Tony Klein? And they had nothing good to say about him.

His ex-stepdaughter said that he would often fly into fits of rage one time he flipped a table onto her. In another instance, he shot the family dog. She also said that Tony once told her to run and started shooting her with a BB gun. One of the BBs actually got lodged into her elbow and she had to get surgery to remove it. Tony's ex-stepson said that he was constantly beating their mother and one time he abused him so severely that the police had to get involved.

That time, his stepson, who was in third grade, said that a certain toilet in their house was constantly getting clogged, and one day he really needed to use the bathroom and accidentally clogged it. Now, he begins to yell for his mom for help, but instead, Tony comes in, and he's pissed. The mom tries to intervene, but this only makes Tony more mad, and he begins punching her. She tries to run away from him, but he chases her down, punches her over and over again, and bites her stomach.

He then runs back into the bathroom, slams his stepson's face into the toilet, fracturing his orbital socket, picks him up and starts dunking his head into the overflowed toilet bowl. Now, Kagan was Tony's only biological child and it was very obvious to the other siblings that he was the favorite. Tony's stepdaughter told the Murder Sheet podcast that Kagan was the golden child and that he never got in trouble with Tony, even though he wasn't very well-behaved.

And now that you know a little bit more about Kagan's father, Tony Klein, we want to talk about why many people think he and Kagan are connected to the Delphi murders. And the most damning evidence has to do with an incident that occurred just one week after Libby and Abby were murdered. It was February 20th, 2017 in a town called Galveston, which is about 35 minutes away from Delphi.

And it was there where an underage girl was chatting with someone on social media. And the account in question was none other than Anthony_Shots. The same account that had been talking to Libby right before she was murdered. Now, interestingly enough, this girl's family was actually friends with the Kleins.

And Kagan, or whoever was using the Anthony Schatz account, must have thought she was attractive, so they started messaging her pretending to be this attractive male model. And considering she had no idea she was being catfished by a family friend, she became interested in this fake account.

The two started messaging back and forth, flirting with each other, and on February 20th, she messaged the account "Hey, I'm going to be getting home from school soon and my parents aren't here so you should come over." And then she sent her address. Shortly after, when the girl got home from school,

She saw a man wearing a ski mask peering into her bedroom window. Now, when I heard this detail, I was absolutely shocked. What are the odds that one week after the Delphi murders, another girl interacting with Anthony Schott's account would have a man show up in a ski mask at her house?

That doesn't seem like a coincidence to me. Now, it's also possible that Kagan shared this Anthony Schatz account with someone else other than his father. Like we mentioned earlier, Kagan was exchanging pictures and videos of minors to other pedophiles throughout different social media apps.

So it's possible that someone else with access to this account saw the address and decided to drive over. And this also brings up the question as to whether or not this is what happened to Abby and Libby. Did someone who had access to the Anthony Schatz account see that Libby posted a picture at the high bridge and decide to go over there and murder them?

We don't have those answers, but this piece of evidence is what really convinced me that the Anthony Schatz account is somehow connected to the Delphi murders. And interestingly enough, one of the Murder Sheet podcast sources, who knew Tony Klein when they were younger, said that Tony was known to be a peeping Tom.

In one instance, he even used a tree branch to reach through a girl's window and lift up her nightgown as she slept. And to me, this is way too similar to the ski mask incident. Something else that is important to note about this investigation is that authorities saw that the search history on Kagan's devices were deleted from February 10th to February 15th in 2017.

So, two days before the Delphi murders and two days after the murders. Which doesn't exactly prove anything, but it is suspicious.

It was also found that Libby German had actually factory reset her own phone shortly before the murders Was she coerced to do that so that her predators could try and erase incriminating evidence on her end? It doesn't seem like too far of a reach for us And something else that raises a lot of eyebrows is the fact that both Kagan and his father Tony left for Vegas shortly after the murders

And it's unclear what day exactly they left, but we do know that they returned back to Indiana on the 25th, which just so happened to be the day of the raid. Now, during this time in Vegas, Kagan would later admit that he and his dad were supposed to go to the Bunny Ranch, which is a licensed brothel, and they were planning on getting blowjobs there, but they decided against it because it was too expensive.

And this is just another strange instance of Kagan and his dad sharing sexual experiences together. Most people would not want to bring their fathers along for things like that.

Also, side note, Tony Klein actually named Kagan after his favorite strip club, called Kagan Klein. So that should tell you everything about the kind of person he is. But anyways, on this Vegas trip, which was supposed to be filled with partying and prostitutes, Kagan's internet searches show that he was very invested in the Delphi case. He even looked up, is it possible to trace IP addresses through social media? And...

How long does DNA last? He also looked up the bridge guy photo and listened to the down the hill audio six different times. Was he scared that the bridge guy photo could be traced back to him or his father or even someone else he knows? Now, I do want to mention that it is widely agreed upon that the bridge guy does resemble Tony Klein. Even people close to him say that it could possibly be him.

But they also said that the voice which orders the girls down the hill does not sound like Tony. According to the people that know him, Tony has an unusually high-pitched voice. So take with that what you will but I also wanted to point out something else about Tony Klein. Early on in the Delphi investigation, many people were questioning the type of job that the suspect would have.

After all, this man was walking along a trail on a Monday in the middle of the day. So why wasn't he at work? Well, at the time, Tony worked at a company called Stellantis, who owns Chrysler, which has four different plants around Indiana.

To my understanding, he is not currently working there anymore and we don't know if that's because of the investigation or what. I did hear he had some kind of surgery on his foot so he could just be on leave but at the time of the murders, Tony worked the B shift which means he would work on Tuesday nights, Wednesday nights, and Friday nights from 7:30 pm to 6:30 am.

Which means, at the time of the murders, he would have had that Monday off. Now, let's consider Kagan. Many people do not think he looks like the bridge guy. Kagan is a lot heavier and he just doesn't seem to match the description. Interestingly enough,

Kagan's stepbrother told the Murder Sheet podcast that the audio down the hill does sound like Kagan. Something else that was found about Kagan was a tweet of his where he quoted some rap lyrics that say, quote, think I won't choke no whore till the vocal cords don't work in your throat no more.

Which, rap lyrics are rap lyrics and they're usually pretty vulgar, but I don't know if I would ever tweet something like that. Another incriminating thing about Kagan was, remember how Libby's friend messaged the Anthony Schatz account and asked, have you heard what happened to Libby? And he responds, OMG, what happened?

Well, Kagan was making all of those internet searches about the Delphi case before Libby's friend asked him that. So he obviously knew what happened to Libby but he was acting clueless when her friend asked. So why wouldn't he just say "yeah I heard, that's horrible." Again, another instance where he's trying to distance himself from the case.

Now, there are a lot of things about this Vegas trip that are very vague and don't make a lot of sense Many people speculate that he and Tony went to Vegas to kind of get away from the heat of the investigation But if they were fleeing, then why would they come back so soon?

Others speculate that they went there for some sort of business trip, possibly even meeting up with like-minded people to sell them hard drives of child pornography. Now, again, there's so little information out there that we aren't claiming this is true, but these are just some theories that people have thrown out there. It's known that Kagan met someone in Vegas, but he claims that it was a drug deal. Then, the day after this supposed drug deal, Kagan claimed that he found a Samsung Galaxy S5 phone in his rental car.

and he said he kept the phone for two days and did a factory reset on it.

And the factory reset just happened to fall on the same day the Delphi press conference occurred on And while he was in Vegas, he used this phone to look up child pornography, bestiality He looked for images of the Sandy Hook victims And he looked up several infamous crime cases like JonBenet Ramsey and OJ Simpson Then a few days later, he and Tony were back in Indiana on the same day of the raid When Kagan was interviewed by police that day, he even stated that he was "fucked" and should have left

He even told investigators that he wanted to pack an extra bag for Vegas so that he could sneak away while his father was sleeping. And I've tried to wrap my head around exactly what this means, but the only thing I'm able to take from it is that Kagan must have felt trapped by his father in some type of way. Why else would he only want to leave when his dad was asleep?

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Even if the police didn't have enough evidence to connect him to the Delphi murders, one would think that after finding all of that child pornography on several different devices, and that Kagan is quite literally in the center of a child pornography group operating in Indiana, that they would have arrested him immediately.

But they don't. And for the next three years, Kagan Klein walks around a free man, despite the fact that investigators would later say that the discovery of his dropbox opened up the largest child pornography investigation in Indiana's history. If that's the case, then why let him walk free for years after the raid on his home?

We will discuss this a little more in a bit but according to Kagan, he moved to Las Vegas with a friend of his from Peru, Indiana.

in June of 2017, just a few months after his home was raided. And during this time, his half-brother Bart told the Murder Sheet podcast that Kagan was claiming that while he was there, he was working at a marijuana business where he would transport weed to the customers. Then he told him that he was going to school to be a blackjack dealer. Then he said he was patrolling a weed warehouse.

and just a bunch of different stories. And it's important to note that almost everyone that knew Kagan said he was a pathological liar. He was known to tell these outlandish stories that just simply weren't true.

His half-brother even told a Murder Sheet podcast that at some point, Kagan texted him a picture of him in the desert and he's at this venue where people are selling shirts. But the half-brother said that it was very clear that Kagan photoshopped himself in the picture. And when he confronted Kagan about the photoshop,

He played it off like, "Oh yeah, I was just seeing if you'd notice." So that's the kind of person Kagan is. But there's even some speculation as to whether or not Kagan was even in Vegas during this time. Many people, including his family, don't believe he was there. Another thing that a lot of people wonder is how was Kagan making money during these few years after the raid?

He didn't live with his dad anymore and there was no proof that he was actually holding down a steady job. When investigators asked him this later on, Kagan said he was making money by creating menus for restaurants and websites for businesses. And he said he was doing all of this on his phone, which just doesn't seem legit to me.

He would also claim at first that he would charge about $200 for these services, but then later on he changed it to $1,000. Many people out there speculate that Kagan was making money distributing child pornography.

Which again, we do not know if that is true and although we do know he was sending it to people, there is absolutely no proof that he received money from it. But I do find it interesting that Kagan's friend Dylan told the Murder Sheet podcast that Kagan often talked about how he participated in activities on the dark web.

Now, we know Kagan is a pathological liar, so take that with a grain of salt. Now, something else that's interesting that the Murder Sheet podcast pointed out was that in August of 2018, Tony Klein wrote on his Facebook, quote, "'My son is coming home for a week tomorrow. Hasn't been home in two years. Can't wait to see him.'"

Now, we know that that isn't true because Kagan was living with him at his home during the raid in February of 2017. So why is he lying about the last time he saw his son? Is he trying to make it seem like Kagan wasn't in Indiana during the Delphi murders? Just another one of the many questions we don't have answers to.

Now, in September of 2018, Kagan moves in with his mom for a while and then in late 2019, just a few months after the Indiana State Police announced that they're taking the case in a new direction, Kagan starts couch surfing around Indiana. And it almost seems like his life is falling apart. And it was.

Because on August 19th, 2020, over three years after the raid on his home, Kagan Anthony Klein would be arrested at his girlfriend's apartment in Kokomo, Indiana. Now keep in mind, this arrest had nothing to do with the Delphi murders, but for the child pornography that was found on all of his devices in 2017.

And with this arrest, Kagan Klein was charged with 30 felony counts of possession of child pornography, child exploitation, obstruction of justice, and synthetic identity deception. Now this happened in 2020, and although the entire nation had been following the Delphi case, the arrest of Kagan Klein was not big news.

because no one knew he was associated with the case just yet. And it wouldn't be until December 6th, 2021

nearly a year and a half after his arrest when the Indiana State Police released the YouTube video asking anyone to come forward if they had interacted with Anthony_Shott's profile. Then, the following day, Wish TV announced that Kagan Klein was associated with the account. Now, Kagan's arrest for the child pornography charges was two years ago this very month.

And the fact that investigators are still trying to get information from the public shows that they don't have enough to charge him in connection to the murders. Now, the news of this development was shocking for everyone. I feel like most people never expected Abby and Libby's murder to be tied to something so huge. After the announcement of the Anthony Schatz account, law enforcement eventually tracked down the model

whose photos were being used on the profile and it turns out he was actually a police officer. He would later say "The Indiana State Police did not reach out and let me know prior to using the photos. It wasn't until I saw their press release on their page to where I finally realized what had happened."

I reached out to them after finding out and am in contact attempting to help out in any way possible. It's frustrating as a police officer knowing that my photo was used for so many heinous crimes and continues to be used as such.

And one thing to note about this case is that investigators do have DNA that was left at the crime scene.

And if that's the case, then one would think that they would have tested the DNA against both Kagan and his father Tony. Now, we don't know if the DNA quality was good enough because investigators are still pretty tight-lipped about the investigation.

But we do want to go over some of the main points that we feel are important regarding this case. Now again, we are not claiming that Kagan and Tony Klein are responsible for the murders of Abby and Libby. And we don't want to make any claims like that because that's not our job. And what we have laid out for you are simply just what's been uncovered about this strange father-son duo.

Now, we do have our speculations that they are somehow connected to the murders. But throughout our research, we do want to discuss some takeaways about the Kline's. For one, we know that the Anthony Schatz account that was created by Kagan was in contact with Libby German before she was murdered, and that he was one of the last people to speak with her before her murder. We also know that Kagan Klein failed his polygraph after the murders.

We know that another child, who was in contact with the Anthony Schatz account, had a man in a ski mask show up at her house right after giving the Anthony Schatz account her address. We also know that at least two profiles created by Kagan Klein were used to receive and/or distribute child pornography, and that in these profiles there was more than one person using it to communicate with people.

We know that the location of these chats, where two different people are using the accounts, were at Kagan's dad's house. And lastly, we know that Tony Klein has a history of domestic abuse, including the abuse of children. We know based on his criminal history that he has stalked children in the past, he has a history of committing non-contact sexual offenses, has been a peeping Tom, and has made horrific comments about women in the past.

Now, Kagan Klein would later speak to CNN in a jailhouse interview, and this is what he had to say. Why do you think investigators are putting so much focus on you right now? I have not a clue. Because they, I think it's because they said I was the last person to talk to her, is what they've told me.

Klein says investigators haven't threatened any charges against him for Abby and Libby's murders. And while he's admitted to cheating or rather creating the Anthony shots profile to get inappropriate pictures, he says that's where the crime ends. Were you ever trying to meet these girls in real life that you were talking to? No, never. Did you have anything to do with the murders of Abby or Libby? Not at all. And I gave up my DNA, a hair follicle test. I've,

Now, many people criticized the Indiana State Police for their response in regard to Kagan Klein's arrest. And many people wanted to know, why did it take so long to arrest him? Here is what the Indiana State Police had to say. The Indiana State Police has received many media inquiries since our December 6th press release concerning Anthony's shots and eventually the identification of a man. You're

Your questions are certainly relevant as they relate to a long, complex, and extremely complicated murder investigation. During the last nearly five years, we have conducted dozens of secondary investigations based on information we received. One of those investigations included a possession of child pornography case resulting in the arrest of a man.

The information we had, have, and continue to receive concerning the man has ebbed and flowed over these last few years. We understand there was a period of time that passed between 2017 and 2020 when the man was not arrested and incarcerated for possession of child pornography. Once the Indiana State Police presented the criminal case to the Miami County Prosecutor in June of 2020, immediate action was taken by both the Indiana State Police and the Miami County Prosecutor's Office, which ultimately resulted in the man's arrest.

Like so many other pieces of this investigation, we will always review, learn from, and make any necessary adjustments. We do not believe that any person has done anything intentionally wrong, but we will continue to critically evaluate our efforts. We know there is an enormous interest in the why of everything we do, but we cannot and we will not speculate.

One day you will have the opportunity to see and know what we do. And we look forward to that day. And I think it's important to remember that there is still so much we don't know about this case and the investigation. And we have to trust that law enforcement wants this case solved more than anything. And that they're doing their best. And like they said, I'm sure one day they will be able to answer all of our questions. Now...

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We believe that the transcript that the Murder Sheet podcast uncovered is a huge part of this case and it honestly reveals so much more about the investigation and Kagan Klein and I personally read through all 194 pages but I understand not everyone has time for that.

So, Colin and I are actually going to release an episode where we read you guys the important parts of the transcript from Kagan's interrogation after he was arrested. So, keep an eye out for that. You are not going to want to miss it, but I wanted to end this episode on a very important note.

Even if for some crazy reason the Kleins are not connected to these murders, I think there's still something important to consider. Many people online have criticized the families of these victims, saying things like "I would never let my child talk to men on the internet."

or they should have been more observant of what their children were getting into. And that is the last thing we should be doing here. Just from personal experience, I had extremely strict parents growing up and I remember when I was in the 8th grade, which is the exact age of Abby and Libby,

and me and my friends would chat with random guys on Kik, the very apps that Kagan was using to chat with underage girls. And I was just telling Colin that I remember talking to this guy that was abnormally attractive

And now that I'm looking back on it, he probably wasn't who he said he was. And again, my parents were monitoring everything I was doing. So the point of me bringing this up is that if it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone. These predators are skilled in manipulation and they are preying on a very vulnerable population.

Now, just a quick update before we end the episode. There have been a number of recent developments that have suddenly played out in this case.

First of all, Kagan Klein was recently released from jail to talk with the Indiana State Police. It hasn't been revealed where the authorities took Kagan or why they wanted to speak with him outside of the jail, but it will all be revealed soon. Authorities usually only request to remove someone who's serving time in jail for questioning if they believe that they have information to share that can only be understood or discovered outside of prison walls.

meaning that maybe Kagan could have led investigators to a specific area in person that he couldn't pinpoint on paper, or maybe he could explain a specific clue or piece of evidence that he couldn't have from a jail cell. In addition, in the last week or so, the police searched a section of the Wabash River in Peru, Indiana, near Kagan Klein's home where he was living with his father at the time of the Delphi murders.

It's unclear at the moment if the river search and Kagan's recent release from jail are connected, but it would be pretty strange if they weren't. So, could the police finally be closing in on a suspect and building a solid case? Is there new evidence that's recently been uncovered that we, the public, still don't know about? The only thing that can give us those answers is time. And we're sure that, in time, this mystery will one day be solved.

Hey everybody, it's Colin here. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Murder in America. Once again, all parties are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, but it is very interesting. There are so many facts about this case that are starting to add up, and I think that in the next few weeks we're going to have a major revelation in this story. But, you know, we just have to wait and find out. But I want to thank our new patrons this week, Scoons,

And Phil.

Oh my goodness, that is a lot of patrons in one week. Thank you to everybody who has become a patron and helped support our work on Patreon. If you don't know what that is, you can sign up to become a patron and you get the ad-free version of every single episode that we release as soon as it goes live on all of our streaming platforms. So, if you want to support us,

Yeah, this last week we were actually the 130th largest podcast in the U.S. across all genres on Spotify, which is so incredible. And we cannot thank you all enough for helping us get to this point. But if you want to follow us on Instagram, just search Murder in America. We post photos from every case right after the case goes live. And yeah, we are so excited about the season change coming up. And we have so many great episodes planned. But yeah.

Thanks y'all again for listening. It's Colin here and we'll catch you on the next one. At your job, do you ever have to deal with a nose roller? How about a snub pulley?

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