EP. 76 INDIANA - SERIAL KILLER Herbert Baumeister, & The HAUNTED Fox Hollow Farm 01:33:58

He's the most terrifying serial killer you've never heard of. Haddon Clark has confessed to several murders, but investigators say he could have over 100 victims. At the center of the mayhem, a cellmate of Haddon's that was able to get key evidence into Haddon's murder spree across America,

because hadn't thought he was Jesus Christ. Born Evil, the Serial Killer and the Savior, an ID true crime event. Premieres Monday, September 2nd at 9. Watch on ID or stream on Max. Set your DVR. Warning, the following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects. Trigger warnings from the stories we cover may include violence, rape,

murder, and offenses against children. This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned. I want you to take a second and think about the people in your life, the people closest to you. Usually, we think we know these people pretty well, who they are, what they like, what they dislike, their temperament.

And we know these things about them because we spend a lot of time with them. Sometimes it may even seem like you know them better than they know themselves. But is that really the case? Do you actually really know anyone? You may think you do, but in reality everyone has secrets. Things that they hide from the rest of the world. Maybe it's embarrassing stories from their past. Or old habits that they're ashamed of. Or maybe it's their dark side.

A side that only comes out when no one's around. You see, that's the scary thing about humanity. You think you know people, but you never really know the extent of a person unless you take a step into their mind. Everybody has secrets. But as you'll see in our story for today, some people's secrets are bigger than others. At the end of this story, it will have you wondering whether or not you really know anyone.

In the 1990s, gay men around Indianapolis started disappearing and once the media finally started giving attention to their cases, a trail of secrecy, strangulation, and murder would lead right to a man that no one would have suspected. This is the story of serial killer Herb Baumeister and the strangulations at Fox Hollow Farms.

I'm Courtney Browen. And I'm Colin Browen. And you're listening to Murder in America.

Here in America, we divide our states up into different geographical regions. There's the Northeast, the Southeast, West, and Southwest, and then there's the Midwest, where I'm from. Now, each of these regions have different stereotypes of the people who live there. For instance, according to YouGov, a common stereotype of people living in the Northeast is that they're worldly, somewhat impatient, smart, and aggressive.

The people who live in the West are known to be experimental, uninhibited, and imaginative.

And the people in the Midwest, which is where our story takes place, are commonly known to be self-disciplined, easygoing, kind, and polite. Like I said, I'm from the Midwest, and it's true. People from my area are really friendly compared to other places that I've been. But back in the 1990s, the Midwest wasn't very friendly towards certain communities. Specifically, the LGBTQ plus community.

You see, there's a strong religious presence amongst the Midwestern states. And growing up as a gay man in a place where being gay isn't accepted was difficult to say the least. And this was especially true for the gay community in Indiana. Now, luckily, Indianapolis was one of the few places where gay men in the Midwest could actually go and be themselves. In the early 90s, there were gay bars amongst the downtown scene where people could come together, have a good time, and meet others within their community.

But as the summer months passed in 1993, the community started shrinking. Not because these men were moving away from Indianapolis, but because they were vanishing into thin air right off of the streets. The first disappearance was on May 28, 1993.

when 20-year-old Johnny Bayer was last seen leaving for a shift at the local McDonald's. His mother, Rose, said that his shift was supposed to be from 3 p.m. to 11. And right before he left, Johnny told her, quote, I'll see you when I get off work. But by the next morning, Johnny still wasn't home. He didn't call or tell anyone where he was either. Now, Rose was worried, but she decided to wait it out and give it a few days.

Maybe he was just out and would come home soon with an explanation as to where he was. But days and days would pass and there was still no sign of Johnny. So on June 10th, 1993, Rose decided to file a missing persons report. When she called the station, however, she was horrified to find out that her son's car

had just been towed to an impound lot the day before. According to them, Johnny's blue Dodge Aspen had been parked in downtown Indianapolis on 9th and St. Clair. And it was clear that it had been there for a while because there were eight parking tickets under the car's windshield wipers. Now even more frightening for Rose was that Johnny's wallet was left inside of the car.

And it was here when she knew something terrible had happened to her son. She tried to get the police to look into her son's disappearance, but they didn't take it seriously. You see, Johnny's car had been found in an area where male prostitutes frequented. And the police just assumed that he ran off with some guy. Now, Rose didn't know that her son was gay at the time, but she would later say, quote, "...even if he had been, so what?"

He would have been no less my son. I wouldn't have loved him any less." And with the police not taking Johnny's case seriously, Rose felt helpless. She knew deep down that something terrible had happened. And these feelings would only intensify when Johnny never showed up to pick up his last paycheck from work. If he was just a runaway, then why would he leave without his car, wallet, and the money he earned from his job?

It just didn't make any sense. But Rose wouldn't be the only mother who would experience this loss within Indianapolis. In fact, the next missing person was just around the corner.

In July of 1993, a little over a month after Johnny disappeared, another man would go missing from Indianapolis. It was 31-year-old Jeff Jones, who was last seen leaving a Salvation Army rehab center. Jeff was known to hang out around the gay bars in the city and according to the people who knew him, he never met a stranger. Jeff was very friendly and sociable, and his disappearance left many people wondering where he could have gone.

And not long after, another gay man in Indianapolis would vanish as well. On July 31st, 1993, 20-year-old Richard Hamilton would leave his apartment at around 2 a.m. to buy some cigarettes, never to be seen again.

Then a week later, on August 7th, 1993, two men would go missing on the same night. First was 28-year-old Allen Livingston, who was last seen getting into a white car downtown. And later that night, 31-year-old Manuel Resendiz, who was last seen at the club with his friends. When it was time to leave, however, no one could find him. By the end of that summer, five men within Indianapolis' gay community had vanished.

And besides their close friends and family, no one was really looking for them. In many of the cases, the police just assumed the men had run off on their own free will. No one had any idea that someone in town was using the gay bars as a hunting ground. Now summer would soon turn to fall, then winter,

and the missing men of Indianapolis were still nowhere to be found. But interestingly enough, no one else had gone missing and it wouldn't be until the following summer of 1994 when the disappearances would start up again.

The first would come on June 6th with 28-year-old Alan Broussard. Alan struggled with his sexuality throughout his teenage years and it wasn't until his 20s when he came out as gay. His parents weren't thrilled about it, but Alan didn't care. He was excited to finally start being himself. And he found a lot of comfort in the Indianapolis gay bar scene. One of his favorite bars was called Brothers.

And on this particular night in June of 1994, Alan made his way to the bars to meet up with some friends of his. It was a Saturday night and the place was crowded with hundreds of people ready to have a good time. But when the night ended, Alan was seen leaving the bar, only to never be seen again.

And like always, when his disappearance was brought up to the police, they didn't take it seriously. But the next disappearance would be the one that would actually get the police's attention. On July 22nd, 1994, 33-year-old Roger Allen Goodlett was spending the day with his mother, Catherine. It was a nice summer day and he had just helped his mom put together a yard bench for her backyard.

The two spent the afternoon hanging out outside playing with Roger's new cat and he even took some photographs of his mother next to her garden. It was a wholesome experience and Catherine didn't know it at the time but it was the last day she would ever spend with her son.

After a few hours, Roger got dressed, told his mom goodbye, and he left her home to get on the bus. He was only supposed to be gone for a couple of hours, so when he didn't return home that night, Catherine was worried. But Roger was 33 years old, so she wasn't panicking just yet. She figured he was probably just staying out late and that he would be home by tomorrow. But when the next day came around, Roger still hadn't come home.

Catherine ended up going to the police department to file a missing persons report, but they told her that she couldn't file one until Roger had been missing for 30 whole days. Now, I've seen police departments make families wait to file these reports, but it's usually like one or two days. I've literally never heard of waiting an entire month. But Catherine was not about to wait around that long while her son was missing.

So she decided to hire a private investigator named Virgil Vandegrift. Virgil and his team would later say, "The police don't get real involved with adults who are missing like that if there are no clues or reason to believe that something bad happened to them. In other words, you're an American citizen. If you want to disappear, you have that right." But in the meantime, while Virgil was looking into Roger's last known whereabouts,

his family decided to post missing person flyers all around Indianapolis. They read, "Have you seen this man? Roger Allen Goodlett, 5'8, 150 pounds, brown hair and brown eyes." Now, luckily with Roger's disappearance, the police finally start to make a connection between the missing gay men in Indianapolis.

It's unclear why it took them so long, but the detective that would later work this case would say, quote, it's hard to know in the beginning whether to look at it as an individual situation or that possibly things are linked, end quote. Now, Roger was the seventh man who had gone missing within the last year, so the police had a lot of catching up to do. And they started by canvassing the neighborhoods and bars, asking people of Roger's last known whereabouts.

And although no one had seen him since his disappearance, one man did have some interesting information. According to Rick Rigney, he saw Roger hitchhiking on the night that he vanished. The two actually waved to each other and then he watched as Roger got inside of a man's car.

Now, by this point, the mainstream media had barely covered any of these disappearances. But after word got out that Roger Allen Goodlett was the seventh gay man to go missing from Indianapolis' downtown area, people around town started talking. And finally, after a year, the men started to get the media coverage that they deserved.

But this wouldn't stop the disappearances. In fact, just days after Roger disappeared, another young man would vanish. This time, it was 26-year-old Stephen Hale, who was last seen leaving the Indianapolis Central Library. The police department was now certain that someone was lurking through their town and killing men within the gay community. But with barely any leads, they felt like their investigation was at a standstill. So they decided to bring in the FBI.

Upon looking at the different cases, the FBI concluded that Indianapolis most likely did have a serial killer on their hands and they were able to come up with a profile of their killer.

They believed that their perpetrator was a white male, mid-40s, probably bisexual, with an above average IQ. And although this did give them something to work with, it wasn't very much. Indianapolis is a pretty big city, and they knew that it would be nearly impossible to find their killer based on the profile alone. But with eight men missing, they figured that there had to be a survivor. Someone out there that must have encountered this man and escaped.

Because, after all, even the most seasoned killers make mistakes. So the FBI and the Indianapolis Police Department directed their investigation on finding this survivor. They began asking the community to come forward if they had had any strange encounters recently. Especially if they had a strange encounter with someone near the downtown gay bars. And, what do you know, in August of 1994, they would get a promising lead.

detectives would come into contact with a man named Tony Harris. Now, I don't think this is his real name, but he would go on to play a huge part in this investigation and he wanted to stay anonymous, so all of the sources out there call him Tony. But after hearing that the police were looking for information about strange encounters near the gay bars in Indianapolis, boy did Tony have a story for them. - Alan was missing.

And they were looking for any kind of odd dealings here in Indianapolis. And I believe that I knew an odd person. According to him, he was out one night at a bar called the 501 Club when he saw a man who was sitting all by himself reading a poster. Now, Tony goes to take a closer look and he sees that the man is actually reading about the disappearance of Roger Goodlett.

who was actually a friend of Tony's. Now, the gay community had been concerned for a while now with all of the disappearances, and Tony was on high alert that night. And something about the man reading about his friend sends a chill down his spine. Tony would later say, quote, when I saw him look at the posters, there was something there that told me he had something to do with it. End quote.

So curious, Tony actually decided to strike up a conversation with him. Can I buy you a drink? He asks. The man turns in his direction and smiles. Tony notes that he's a bit older, tall, average looking, and upon first glance, he seems like your average guy. Nice to meet you. I'm Brian Smart. Brian Smart.

the name of the man who could possibly be killing gay men in Indianapolis. Tony made sure to study his face, take everything in just in case he was the killer. And now that he's face to face with him, Tony realizes that he's seen this man around before. He often comes to the gay bars, but he's usually all by himself.

just kind of standing in the corner observing the people around him. So as they're sitting there, Tony decided to mention the poster. "What are you reading about?" he asks. And strangely enough, Brian Smart kind of perks up and begins discussing the missing gay men. But it wasn't like he was talking about them as if he was concerned. Tony noted that Brian seemed to be more fascinated than he was worried.

Now the two continue to talk for the next few minutes and after a while, Brian asks Tony if he wants to leave. He tells him, "Look, my employer has this really nice house. If you want to go back there, we can have some more drinks and have a little fun." And for whatever reason,

Tony agrees to go. During the car ride, Tony did his best to try and stay calm, knowing that he could possibly be riding with the man who killed his friend. And to hide his nerves, he began asking Brian some questions. "So, are you from here?" he asks. Brian smiles and says, "No, I'm from Ohio. I'm just in town for a couple of months to fix up my employer's home. That's where we're headed right now." Tony says, "Oh, so you fix up houses for a living?"

Brian seemed to think for a moment, trying to figure out what he was going to say next. And after a few moments, he responds. Now, I'm just doing it as a favor for my friends. Now, at this point in the night, it's dark out, and Tony had a bit to drink, but from what he could tell, Brian drove them north of Indianapolis for about 15 to 20 minutes. And all that surrounded them now were big green pastures and horse farms.

Soon enough, they pulled into a rural property with a sign out front that read something. Something farm. But that's about all Tony was able to see. After driving down the driveway, Brian pulled his car up to a big Tudor-style mansion. The home was eerie looking. None of the lights were on, and Tony was starting to wonder if he made a big mistake coming there.

And Brian must have seen his apprehension because once they step out of the car, he tells Tony, Sorry, it looks a little scary. The house doesn't have power yet. But out back, we have some lights and a heated pool. The two then walk through the garage and into the home. And Tony notes that there is stuff everywhere. And I'm talking about dozens of boxes along the walls. Old furniture with sheets over the top.

and just a lot of general clutter. It was clear that whoever lived here was definitely a hoarder. After glancing around the room, Brian grabs Tony by the hand and leads him down a spiral staircase into a room with a pool. The room had an eerie feel, and the dim blue lights revealed that they were not alone. All around the room, there were dozens of other men.

Startled, Tony takes a step backwards, only to realize that these aren't actual men. They're mannequins, scattered all around the room in strange and contorted positions.

And Brian must have sensed Tony's nervousness because he quickly tells him, oh don't worry, these guys just keep me company here while I work around the home. Tony was weirded out to say the least, but after a few moments of silence, Brian asks him if he wants to take a dip in the pool. So Tony takes off his clothes and jumps in, expecting Brian to come in with him.

But he doesn't. Instead, Brian just removes his clothes and stands there, watching him. After a while, Brian leans down and whispers, "You know, I learned this really neat trick where if you choke someone while you're having sex with them, it feels amazing."

It'll give you the biggest rush you ever felt. There's just something about the way the color in their face changes when you choke them. Their eyes tend to bulge out, their lips turn blue, and something about that just turns me on. You should try it on me." Now, Tony wasn't necessarily into this, but he decided to give it a try. While in the pool, Brian hands him a hose.

and he wraps it around Brian's throat while he masturbated. And eventually, Brian actually passes out from the lack of oxygen. When he comes to, however, he is exhilarated. And after showing Tony how great it was for him, he's ready to reciprocate. Brian then reaches for the hose and wraps it around Tony's neck. Now, Tony would go on to say that Brian wasn't attacking him when he did this.

He was more so asking if he was okay with it. And when Tony didn't object, Brian pulled the hose tighter around his neck. For the first few seconds, Tony said that everything was fine. And then Brian started to pull it tighter. And the more he pulled the rope, the crazier Brian looked. Tony could feel his face getting red and his blood vessels straining. And he tried to signal for Brian to stop, but he wouldn't.

There was a sick look of pleasure on his face as he watched Tony struggle for air. And in that very moment, Tony realized that this is exactly how his friend Roger died and all of the other men before him. Knowing that he was about to become Brian's next victim, Tony decides to go limp. Luckily, as soon as he does this, he feels the rope loosen from around his neck.

"Tony, are you dead?" Brian asks, but he doesn't try to save him, give him oxygen or anything like that. Instead, Tony continues to lay there for a few more seconds, but eventually he opens his eyes and takes a huge breath of air. This sudden movement seems to startle Brian. It was clear that he thought Tony was dead. Tony then yells out,

Jesus Christ, what was that? You know people die from that kind of stuff. Brian tells Tony that he's quote, "familiar with death." Tony does his best to keep his composure.

playing it off like he wasn't afraid. And Brian begins to open up some more. He tells them that people do die from sexual asphyxia, but in his experience, they were all just accidents, bad nights, or mishaps. Tony couldn't believe that Brian was actually confessing to murdering people with his erotic game. But again, he kept it cool.

acting like it didn't bother him. And the reason Tony probably lived through this scenario is because Tony was a pretty big guy and Brian knew that he was no match.

It was at this moment when Tony lies and says "yeah, that was a lot of fun, but it is getting pretty late so do you think you can take me home soon?" And to his surprise, Brian agrees. Along the ride home, he continues to flirt with him. And Brian even tells Tony to meet him at the 501 club again next week so they could do it all again. And after Brian dropped him off at his car, Tony was positive

that he had just escaped Indianapolis' serial killer. - And now we're gonna take an ad break. Microdosing is one of my favorite things to do in life. Microdose and the concept of microdosing is commonly associated with psychedelics, wellness, performance enhancement, and creativity.

Basically, microdosing is taking an entry-level dose of THC. Microdosing has so many benefits. It can give you a creative boost. It can help you sleep at night. It can help relieve pain. And that's why we're excited to partner with Microdose Gummies because Courtney and I love microdosing. We take these gummies at different times in the day. I like taking my Microdose Gummies

Thank you.

Once again, guys, just go to microdose.com and use our code MIA to get free shipping and 30% off your first order. The links can be found in our show description. But again, that's microdose.com and code MIA. DM us on Instagram if you try these gummies because we really do love them. But yeah, let's get back to today's story.

Now, after this, Tony would go to the police and tell them about this encounter. Detective Mary Wilson from the Indianapolis Police Department had been trying to track this killer down, but like we mentioned, until now, they didn't have any leads. But after hearing Tony's story, they were sure that it was their guy. The only problem was, when they looked up the name Brian Smart, there were no matches. Whoever this guy was, was using a fake name to avoid detection.

So Tony does his best to describe the property where this encounter took place. He tells police it was about 20 miles north on a big piece of land and there was a sign out front that read something farms. He had a huge home with an indoor pool with a lot of mannequins. And desperate to find this guy, Detective Wilson and Tony actually drive around Indianapolis looking for the home, but they can't seem to find it.

Later that week, Brian actually gives Tony a call, wanting to hang out again. And they agree to meet up at the 501 club. After the phone call, Tony quickly gives the man's phone number over to detectives. But when they go to track it down, they realize it's a cell phone and not a home phone. And I guess at the time, they couldn't track down cell phones, so that too was a dead end. So they come up with plan B.

Later that week, when Brian meets up with Tony at the 501 Club, they were going to have undercover detectives waiting outside so they could see what car this Brian Smart came in. And once they knew his license plate number, they would be able to find out who he actually is. But for whatever reason, on the day that they were supposed to meet up, Brian is a no-show. It's possible that he felt it was a setup.

or maybe he ran into other plans. But regardless, this was a huge letdown to detectives. They needed to find this guy before he killed again, but summer eventually turned into fall and there was still no sign of Brian Smart.

But when the spring of 1995 came around, more gay men around Indianapolis started going missing. The first disappearance was on April 1st, 1995, when 46-year-old Michael Kierne never showed up to his shift as a factory worker. And after that day, he was never seen again. Detectives were sure that his disappearance was linked to Brian Smart, but there was nothing they could do since they still couldn't find him.

And then August of 1995 came around, and another man went missing. This time, it was 35-year-old Jerry William Comer. Jerry's car would later be found at an Indiana shopping mall, but once again, he was never seen again.

Jerry would be the tenth man to vanish in Indianapolis within the last three years, and detectives knew that the number was only going to grow as time went on. But luckily, within weeks of Jerry's disappearance, Tony Harris would spot Brian Smart around the gay bars in Indianapolis.

Like a predator, Brian seemed ready to return to his hunting grounds to find his prey. It had been about a year since Tony had seen him last, but he knew he could finally get his license plate number. Now, there are varying sources about this night, and some people say that Tony went up and talked with Brian. Other sources say he stayed away from him that night. But regardless of whether or not they interacted, as Brian left the bar that night, Tony secretly followed him out and watched him get into his car.

And as Brian Smart drove away, Tony wrote down his license plate number. And when he gave the number to Detective Wilson, she was ecstatic. Finally, after three years, they were about to know the name of the man who had been murdering men in Indianapolis. His name was Herb Baumeister. Now, this discovery came as a shock to detectives. Herb was a family man and a successful business owner in the area.

He was a respected member in his community. And now that law enforcement knew his name and where he lived, it was now time to confront him about the missing men. But before we get into that, let's take a look into Herb's life.

Herbert Richard Baumeister was born in Indianapolis on April 7, 1947, to parents Dr. Herbert E. and Elizabeth Baumeister. He was the oldest of their four children, and they seemed to have a really good life. Herb's father was an anesthesiologist, so he made a good amount of money. And once all their children were born, they moved into an affluent neighborhood of Indianapolis called Washington Township.

And for a while, everything seemed to be going smoothly within the Baumeister home. Herb was a normal kid who enjoyed spending time with his younger siblings. He was described as kind, sensitive, and a jokester who liked to make people laugh. And as a child, he did really well in school and had a lot of friends. But that would all change once he got a little older. Once Herb hit adolescence...

He became more introverted and lost a lot of his old friends. While most guys his age were interested in girls, Herb didn't pay any attention to them. In fact, he never dated throughout his high school career. His interests were a lot more macabre.

During high school, Herb became notorious for his disturbing remarks. For instance, he would talk to his peers about how he was curious how urine tasted, wondering if it would taste better cold or fresh from the source. His peers were horrified upon hearing this, and even more so when Herb started chasing them begging for a drink of their urine.

Now, after this, Herb was just known for being a really weird guy who always said things that caught you off guard. And soon enough, he would start exhibiting disturbing behavior as well. Around this time, Herb was known for his interest in dead animals. Apparently, one day, he was kneeling down on the side of the road, sticking his fingers into a dead crow, simply because he was interested in it. The maggots and smell of death didn't seem to bother him.

But as he was doing this, a classmate of his named Bill Donovan sees him and he asks, "What the hell are you doing, palmeister?" Herb was caught off guard. He didn't know that anyone was watching. And as Bill walked closer, he was disgusted to see that Herb had blood all over his fingers. Herb then tells him, "Shh, don't tell anyone."

and then puts the bird into his pocket. Later on that day, a teacher at their school would shriek in disgust. There, on her desk, was the dead crow that Herb had been playing with. He thought it would be hilarious to leave his teacher a grotesque surprise. Everyone knew it was Herb, but no one ever told on him.

And a common saying throughout his life to excuse his weird behavior was "That's just Herb." Which is exactly what his classmates would say when he would behave like this. But as time went on, it seemed like Herb couldn't stay out of trouble. He lost a lot of friends. His grades even started dropping and he continued to make bad decisions. At one point, he even urinated on his teacher's desk.

His parents were eventually informed about Herb's behavior and his dad promised the school that they would get him professional help. But I wasn't able to find anything that proved he actually went forward with any type of treatment. His father was able to use his connections to keep Herb out of any big trouble, but that could only do so much. Because of Herb's behavior, his relationship with his parents was definitely strained.

And his relationship with his peers was almost non-existent. People stopped making excuses for his strange behavior and they just started rejecting him altogether. So Herb does his best to try and tone down his disturbing remarks in order to be accepted. But the damage was already done. He didn't have any friends and no one ever looked at him romantically. And this was a difficult time in Herb's life because it was at around this time when he started to struggle with his sexuality.

The 1960s in the Midwest weren't very accepting of same-sex relationships, so Herb felt the need to hide that part of himself as well. Now, eventually, Herb would graduate from high school and enroll in classes at Indiana University in 1965. But before he can even finish the first semester, he drops out and moves back in with his parents. But Herbert Sr. wasn't going to let him do nothing with his life, so he managed to get Herb a job at the Indianapolis Star as a copy boy.

And at first, it seemed like Herb was doing well here. He dressed nicely every day, always made an attempt to be liked by his peers, and it seemed like he was very motivated to make something of himself. But his co-workers weren't too crazy about him. You see, just like in high school, Herb's peers were put off by his unusual remarks and uncomfortable stares. And he wasn't receiving the constant reinforcement from his superiors like he desired. And it wouldn't be long until his time at the Indianapolis Star would end.

But after this, Herb was motivated to make something of himself. Like many people entering adulthood, he wanted to be something great. So he decided to go back to school in 1967 and major in anatomy. Maybe he could become a doctor and follow in his father's footsteps. And around this time, Herb decided to become more involved at school. He even joined the university's Young Republicans Club.

And it was there where he met a girl named Julie Sater. Julie was a sophomore at the time and according to her, she and Herb really hit it off almost immediately. And her first impression of him was that he was quote, really fun to be with.

I always enjoyed myself in his company." Julie also said that Herb really stood out among other students because he was a lot more conservative than most of the people at their school. Going to college during the hippie era meant that they were often surrounded by a lot of free spirits who loved to party and do drugs. But Herb and Julie weren't interested in that kind of lifestyle.

But even though the two didn't party, they did have a lot of fun together. In fact, Julie said that those college years were some of the best of her life and there was no way that she could have known that the years ahead would be filled with secrets and heartbreak. She was in love.

And even though Herb was interested in men, the thought of settling down, having a family, and living the all-American lifestyle sounded nice. So in November of 1971, the two would get married at the United Methodist Church in Indianapolis. And with the help of Herb's parents, they were even able to take out a mortgage on a small home. From the outside looking in, they seemed like the perfect all-American couple.

They often spent their evenings outside, doing yard work together. Herb would cut the grass and pull the weeds, while Julie planted flowers and trimmed the hedges. When they were out and about, the two were always nicely dressed and they seemed to be really happy. But the honeymoon phase between Herb and Julie didn't last very long.

In fact, there wasn't really a honeymoon phase at all. Almost immediately after they got married, it was clear to Julie that Herb wasn't very attracted to her. Herb wouldn't even get naked or change his clothes in front of her. And when she would try to have sex with him, he would become cold and distant.

In fact, the two had been married for months and they had yet to have sex. According to Julie, the two only had sex a handful of times their entire relationship.

and this would only be the beginning of their rocky marriage. About six months after they got married, Herb would be admitted to a mental institution for about two months. It's not exactly clear what prompted this, but after getting evaluated, it's been said that Herb was misdiagnosed with schizophrenia and multiple personality disorder. And again, there isn't much out there about this entire ordeal, but

After two months, Herb came back home and finally had sex with his wife for the first time after eight months of marriage. Now, we didn't mention this before, but Herb never finished college and eventually dropped out. Despite him having an above-average IQ, school just wasn't his thing. And after dropping out,

He started a job at the Bureau of Motorized Vehicles, or the BMV. And unlike his last job, Herb wasn't as preoccupied with getting his coworkers to like him.

Instead, he was considered to be very bossy and aggressive, almost like he wanted to prove he was superior. And over the years at this job, Herb would start reverting back to his disturbing childish behavior, like peeing on his co-workers' desks. We've also heard a lot of people say that it was at this job where Herb kept a dead cat in his desk and would just look at it every day to observe the different rates of decomposition.

But we weren't able to find credible sources that confirm this. But if that is true, then you can understand why his co-workers were not big fans of his. Now, while he was at this job, Herb and Julie would go on to have three children. In 1979, they had their daughter Marie. In 1981, they had a son named Eric. And then in 1984, they had their last child named Emily.

And, according to Julie, Herb was a great dad. He was always very attentive to his children, and although she and Herb didn't have the greatest marriage, she said that their children really brought them together. And although things seemed to be going well at home, Herb's work life was in trouble. By the time his last daughter was born in 1984, he had worked at the BMV for nearly 10 years, and although it's been said that he was a hard worker, Herb's disturbing behavior would eventually get him fired.

In 1985, after recently being promoted, Herb got into an argument with his boss and instead of handling it professionally, Herb just started urinating on his desk when no one was around. And apparently, this continued to happen for months. Everyone knew that it was Herb, but they couldn't prove it. And then, one day, Herb urinated on a letter that was sent to Indiana's governor at the time.

And that was the straw that broke the camel's back. After years of having to put up with him, the BMV finally decided to fire Herbert Baumeister. And it was around this time when Herb decided to be a stay-at-home dad for a while. After all, his children brought him a lot of joy. But it soon became clear that Herb had a little bit too much time on his hands. He began to drink a lot, and any chance he could get away from his family was

he would make his way towards the gay bars of Indianapolis. Like we mentioned earlier, he and Julie only had sex a handful of times over the course of their marriage, and that's because Herb was having sex with men. Now, during these years of sneaking away from his family, Herb discovered a fetish of his called autoerotic asphyxiation.

which is the process of choking someone or being choked while you either masturbate or have sex. The lack of oxygen to your brain is supposed to give you some kind of rush and Herb experienced this rush during these years of sexual experimentation. Now, we are in no way kink shaming but you do have to be very careful with experimenting with this type of sex play because it is very dangerous.

In fact, according to the National Library of Medicine, around 250 to 1,000 people die from it every year. Usually these deaths are accidental and the people are usually found hanging or they have some type of plastic bag wrapped around their head. Now in some cases, right when people begin to experiment with this type of asphyxiation, the person will only cut off their oxygen supply for a short amount of time.

And then as you experiment more, you can usually handle more intense asphyxiations. In Herb's case, we don't really have all the answers and we will get into why a little bit later, but it's believed that Herb spent years practicing his asphyxiation fetish with men he would meet up with.

and over time, the asphyxiation would escalate. Now, many experts have studied Herb over the years and many believe that his first murder was actually an accident. According to research, an asphyxiation addict may increase the period of strangulation with each encounter. So it's likely that after many instances of practicing this,

Herb was having sex with an individual, took the asphyxiation a little further than anticipated, and accidentally strangled them to death. But once the first murder happened, there was no going back. Strangling someone to that extent gave Herb a high that he never felt before. And from that point forward, anything less was just not enough. So even though the first one may have been an accident,

Everyone after that was an intentional murder. We aren't certain who Herb's first murder victim was or when it was, but it was clear that in the late 1980s, his life slowly started to go downhill. Herb had just lost his job.

He was drinking a lot more, sneaking off to the Indianapolis gay bars, doing his best to hide his double life. And in September of 1985, he would get charged with a hit and run after a night of drinking and driving. But because of Herb's father and his connections within the community,

He got off with a slap on the wrist. A few months later, he even tried to steal a friend's car and was eventually charged for that, but again, he was able to get out of trouble. And it was at around this time when Herb's father had to intervene to try and get his son on the right path. And he found Herb a job as a sales clerk at a thrift store. Now, at first, Herb was not thrilled about this job. It was kind of a step in the opposite direction after his last job, but he decided to give it a go.

learning everything he could about thrift stores. And surprisingly, after a while, he ended up enjoying it. And the more time he spent at the thrift stores, the more he saw areas where he could make improvements. But about two years into this job, Herb's father would pass away. And something about his father's death would really motivate Herb to make something of his life. Maybe it was the fact that he was constantly letting his father down while he was alive.

And now that he was gone, he was going to try and make him proud. Shortly after this, in 1988, Herb would take out a $4,000 loan from his mom and open up his own thrift store. With the knowledge that he learned from his time as a sales clerk, he and Julie decided to name the store Save-A-Lot Thrift, located off 46th Street in Indianapolis. And over the next few months, they filled it with gently used clothing and furniture. And almost immediately, Save-A-Lot Thrift started doing really well.

It was a lot cleaner and nicer than other thrift stores in the area, and it quickly became a local favorite. And within its first year of business, Herb and Julie managed to profit $50,000. The Baumeisters even used this profit to open up a second store in the city. And now that they were making a good amount of money, Herb and Julie started looking for a home where they can raise their children. They looked at many places around Indianapolis, but one day,

They came across a beautiful four bedroom home with a riding stable and an indoor pool. It was located on an 18 acre property called Fox Hollow Farms in Hamilton County. And immediately they knew that they had found the perfect place. It was about 20 minutes away from the city so they were close enough to all the action

but far away enough to still have a rural feel. In 1991, the Baumeisters moved into the estate at Fox Hollow Farms and finally things started to feel normal within their family. Julie would later say, "We enjoyed life. The kids would go rollerblading at night. They would ride their bicycles, getting muddy, and go tramping through the creek or playing out in the leaves. They were just being kids.

and it was the perfect place to live." And again, from the outside looking in, they seemed like they had the perfect life. They were successful with two booming businesses. They had a large family, money, their kids went to private school, and they were respected in their community. I mean, what more could you ask for? But if anyone would have taken a closer look into their lives, they would have known that looks can be deceiving.

For one, which wasn't a big deal at all, but the Baumeister's home was said to be very, very dirty. On the outside, it looked super nice, but once you walked in, there was clutter everywhere. According to Julie, Herb was a hoarder, so all of the rooms inside of the home were filled with junk and he didn't seem to mind the mess. But there was one room inside of the home that was always kept very clean, the pool room.

Herb made sure to always keep the wet bar stocked and he decorated the room with all of this lavish decor and mannequins. Like we mentioned earlier in our story with Tony Harris, Herb kept them there because they "kept him company." And as you'll see, Herb spent a lot of time in this room, mostly when his family was away. You see, Herb and Julie spent a lot of time apart.

especially in the summertime. Since they didn't have the best marriage, Julie would often leave on the summer weekends and take her children to vacation on Lake Wawase. But Herb never came with his family on these trips. Anytime they would go, he would make up some excuse, telling them that he had to stay behind so he could catch up on some work.

But that's not how he spent his time alone. In reality, every time his family would leave, Herb would make his way to the gay bars of Indianapolis to satisfy his sexual urges. But he couldn't have anyone find out about his double life. After all, that would be detrimental to his family and business. So he came up with an alias.

By day, when his family was home, he was Herb Baumeister, family and businessman. And by night, when no one was around, he was Brian Smart. Herb would use this name any time men would approach him at the bars. And in the summer of 1993, while his family was away, Herb, or Brian,

would lure five different men to Fox Hollow Farms and none of them would ever be seen again. And now we're going to take our final ad break. Shifting my wardrobe from summer to fall is always a challenge but luckily Quince offers timeless and high quality items that I absolutely adore. Online shopping can be a little bit difficult but Quince makes it so easy.

When I was going through and adding items to my cart, there were so many options that I had to choose from and I was so obsessed with all of them. Every piece of clothing is so high quality. It will last you forever and everything is so cute.

Quince offers so many high quality products for all different types of people like cashmere sweaters from $50, pants for every occasion, washable silk tops, and so much more. The best part? All Quince items are priced 50-80% less than similar brands. So after ordering from Quince, I received the 100% European Linen Blazer, the Flo Knit Breeze Performance Tee, and the Flo Knit Breeze Performance Polo, and

I was absolutely stunned by the quality of the clothing and the European linen blazer is perfect. I mean, it fits me so unbelievably well. It's slimming and I can't tell you enough. It's just ridiculously high quality. So if you're having a hard time switching your wardrobe from summer to fall, I highly, highly recommend you shop at Quint.

It makes switching seasons a breeze with Quince's high-quality closet essentials. Go to quince.com slash america for free shipping on your orders and 365-day returns. That's quince, q-u-i-n-c-e dot com slash america to get free shipping and 365-day returns. quince.com slash america

If you're like me, you're constantly thinking about the safety of the people and things you value the most. After doing this podcast for years and reading about home invasions and robberies gone wrong and all sorts of tragedies, I knew I needed to secure my home with the best. My research led me to SimpliSafe.

I've trusted SimpliSafe to protect my home for three years now, and the level of security and customer care has been incredible. I sleep better every night knowing SimpliSafe's 24-7 monitoring agents are standing by to protect me if someone tries to break in, and it gives me comfort knowing that they'll send emergency help when I need it the most.

I want you to have the same peace of mind that I and so many listeners experience every day, which is why Courtney and I have partnered with SimpliSafe to offer listeners 20% off a system. Just visit simplisafe.com slash in America. What I love most is that SimpliSafe just keeps getting better. With exclusive live guard protection, SimpliSafe agents can act within five seconds of receiving your alarm and can even see and speak to intruders inside your home, warning them that the police are on their way.

As a SimpliSafe user that's seen all of this firsthand, it's no surprise that SimpliSafe has been named Best Home Security Systems by U.S. News & World Report for five years running and the Best Customer Service in Home Security by Newsweek. So, protect your home this summer with 20% off any new SimpliSafe system when you sign up for Fast Protect Monitoring. Just visit simplisafe.com slash inamerica.

That's simplisafewithani.com slash in America. There's no safe like SimpliSafe. And now let's get back to our story.

So there are a lot of protein powders out there, but I've finally found one that I really love. It's called So Lean and So Clean by Aura Organic. Now, So Lean and So Clean is an amazing product. It has an amazing taste and texture and the cleanest ingredients. It's vegan. There's nothing artificial, and it only contains whole food ingredients sourced from USDA organic certified vegetables.

It contains 21 grams of protein per serving and only has 1-4 grams of carbs, depending on the flavor you choose. Now, being a type 1 diabetic, I always go for the low-carb option, and that's why I really do love this product. I love making protein pancakes in the morning after my workouts. I've been trying to lose some weight lately, and that's why I have loved So Lean and So Clean. It is an amazing protein powder. It tastes good, it makes you feel good, and it's made from good ingredients.

So get 30% off your first subscription when you text MURDER to 64000. Just text MURDER to 64000 and get 30% off your first subscription. Once again, that's MURDER to 64000. Message and data rates may apply. Terms apply. Available at auraorganic.com. It's a great protein powder. I've been taking it for a month now, and you guys will enjoy it online. But let's finish out this story.

Now, there were never any official trials connected to this case, so there are still a lot of unanswered questions as to exactly what happened on Fox Hollow Farms back in the 90s. But we have to assume that the men who lost their lives there had a very similar experience as Tony Harris, the man who would eventually escape this Brian Smart. Herb would bring these men back to his home, have them take a dip in the pool, offer them drinks or drugs.

and then asked them to partake in sexual asphyxia. These men would let Herb choke them, but when they signaled for him to stop, he wouldn't. He would keep choking them. The sight of them struggling for air would give him the rush that he so desperately needed. Then he would watch as the life left their eyes. And once they were dead, Herb would finish pleasuring himself, take their bodies out back, and burn them in a fire pit.

Once he was finished, he would dump their remains somewhere on the property. Then once his family came back home, he would live his life as if nothing happened.

And the more that he got away with it, the more comfortable he became with murder. Luckily for Herb, however, because his victims were minorities, the Indianapolis police weren't even aware that they had a serial killer on their hands. By the time the summer of 1994 came around and Julie and the kids were frequently vacationing, Herb was ready to hit the gay bars again and get his fix. That summer, it's believed that he lured three men back to his home at Fox Hollow Farms.

They, like the others, were used for Herb's sexual gratification and then discarded like trash around his property. And no one had any idea of Herb's secret double life. And we actually found this video of Herb around Christmas of that year, acting completely normal, as if there aren't eight bodies lying around his property. This Christmas...

We also found another video of Herb from around this time that we thought we would add in here. But apparently, as he and his son were driving around one day,

He saw a roadside line marker vehicle driving along the highway, which are those vehicles that paint the lines on the roads. But anyways, as he and his son are watching this guy paint the roads, he notices that there's a dead raccoon up ahead and that the guy is about to paint over it. The two continue to watch and what do you know, instead of moving the roadkill aside, the guy just paints right over the raccoon's head.

Now, Herb had his Polaroid camera handy that day, and being the man that he is, he goes up to the painted dead raccoon and snaps a picture. Later that day, the local news station would contact Herb, wanting to interview him about what he witnessed. Here is a little clip from that interview.

Herb Baumeister of Carmel saw it all. I said to my son, "They're gonna hit that raccoon with a spray gun," and sure enough, they just striped right over its face and neck. You know, didn't even move it, you know, no effort to, you know, get it out of the way. So I happened to have a Polaroid with me, so I took a shot at the thing. A raccoon which met its demise on the yellow line became one with the paint.

The raccoon has since been removed. This is all that's left. This was just, you know, a painter should have had a chalk line drawn around his career by state officials. There was no excuse for that. I mean, the poor thing deserved a better fate than that. What a shame. It would have taken just a second to kick that thing or move it somehow out of the way. And it would only be a matter of time until Herb's obsession with death would be revealed.

In early 1995, Herb's son was playing in the backyard with one of his friends on a Sunday afternoon. Like many teenage boys, the two decided to go explore around the property. But while they were doing so, Eric came across something partially buried in the ground.

He went to take a closer look and upon inspection, it looked to be a human skull. Scared, he runs back to the house as fast as he can and quickly alerts his mom to his gruesome discovery. Mom, mom, you have to come see what I just found. I think there's a body buried out back.

Hearing this, Julie thought that her son had to be mistaken. It has to be some sort of animal, she thought. But when she followed her son outside and he showed her the pile of bones, she immediately knew that it was definitely not an animal. What she was looking at was clear as day the bones of a human.

Now, Herb wasn't home at the time, but when he got home later that day, she took him out to show him the bones. But to her surprise, Herb wasn't phased.

In fact, he even offered up an explanation as to why they were there. He claimed those bones belonged to his father from medical school. Herb said that after his father died, he found them in his dad's belongings and decided to take them home. They had been in their garage for months at that point and Herb just recently decided to get rid of them and toss them out into the property.

Now, I have to say, if Colin ever told me that excuse, there's no way in hell I would believe him.

But according to Julie, Herb's story made sense. After all, he was known to be a hoarder so it wouldn't be uncommon for Herb to have his dad's medical school skeletons. As to why he would just partially bury them on their property, Julie didn't seem to question this. And about a week later, when she was walking around the property, she realized that the bones were gone.

Herb must have cleaned them up. And with that, she never called the police. She never told anyone about the bones and she never brought it up again. Now, by this point, eight men had gone missing in Indianapolis within three years. And finally, the Indianapolis Police Department started to pay attention to their cases.

And it was at around this time when they came into contact with Tony Harris, who told them about Brian Smart, the man who was strangling people in Hamilton County.

Now, it would take the police department about a year before they discovered Brian's real identity, and during that time, it's believed that he killed two more victims, rising the victim count to at least 10. But finally, in August of 1995, Tony was able to write down Brian's license plate number, revealing to the police that their suspect's real name was Herb Baumeister, and detectives needed to speak with him quickly before any more men went missing around Indianapolis.

So, Detective Mary Wilson decided to pay him a visit at the Save-A-Lot thrift store. She said that her first impression of him was: "This is a very strange man. He was very tall and angular, and he looked like his hair had color in it. Physically, he looked very feminine, but he was so very nervous."

Herb had no idea that the police were on to him about the recent murders, so their unexpected visit caught him by surprise. Detective Wilson said that Herb was visibly shaken when she brought up the missing men, and he adamantly denied having anything to do with it. Wilson would later say, "...I felt like we kind of pushed him to the edge just approaching him. He looked like he was just about ready to fall apart."

Herb continued to deny his involvement, telling her that he wasn't gay, so why would he even be at the gay bars? But she quickly told him that she knew he was lying because his car had been seen there. He grew increasingly anxious, knowing that his lies were falling apart. He then told the detectives, Look, I do go to the gay bars sometimes, but I had nothing to do with these disappearances, and I have a wife and three kids, who obviously don't know about this, so I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't tell them.

Detective Wilson then tells Herb, Okay, well, how about this? You give us permission to search your property so we can check you off our list. And after that, we'll be out of your hair. But Herb was very against this. No, that's not going to happen, he tells them. And with no evidence that he was actually their guy, Detective Wilson had no other choice but to leave.

And as she left the store that day, she knew deep in her heart that Herb Baumeister was their guy. She also knew that the only way she was going to prove that was if she was able to search the property. But unfortunately, there just wasn't enough evidence for a search warrant. So Detective Wilson decided to ask the other occupant of the home.

Julie. Detective Wilson would later say that she felt very conflicted talking to Julie at first. She said that for whatever reason, if Herb wasn't their guy, then she was about to ruin a family by revealing Herb's secret. But on the other hand, if he is their guy, which she was pretty confident he was,

Then Julie needed to know. Wilson would later say, quote, "It was a tough decision, but I decided that we either needed to rule him in or rule him out." End quote. Julie would later say, quote, "One day they called me into the back room. My cashier called and said, you know, there's two people here that need to see you. And I walked up to the front and they identified themselves as being from the Indianapolis Police Department." End quote. And it was there

when the detectives told Julie that they were investigating her husband for a number of homicides. And they actually told her that they were "homosexual homicides" as if that's some sort of different category of murder. But as Julie is hearing this, she's hit with the biggest shock of her life. Not only are these detectives telling her that her husband is gay, but that he's a serial killer.

Julie would later say, "I cannot begin to tell you the degree of life that left my body. I just went blank, and I was trying to figure out what is homosexual homicide.

You know, I can define the word homosexual, I can define the word homicide, now how do you define them together? And after the reality of the situation set in, the detectives then ask Julie if she could let them search her property. And to their surprise, Julie tells them no. She tells them that if they are sure her husband is responsible,

then they would need to get a search warrant. Julie would later say, "I just wanted them to leave so I could cry. And they finally did leave and I cried."

End quote. And now that both Julie and Herb refused to let them search Fox Hollow Farms, there wasn't much that investigators could do. Over the next few weeks, Julie called Mary Wilson several times trying to get to the bottom of their investigation. And she was really challenging them, telling them that she didn't believe him. This is her husband they're accusing, and she knows him better than anyone. It just couldn't be Herb. Julie went on to say that her husband was a very level-headed guy.

He never yelled at their children, he never used physical violence, he never threw things or had a temper, and here they are trying to tell her that her husband is a murderer? Julie just couldn't wrap her head around it. But something inside of her couldn't shake the fact that maybe they were right. After all, she did find a human skull on her property earlier that year. Could it be that the skull belonged to one of Herb's victims?

Over the next few months, Herb and Julie's relationship would start to crumble. After confronting him about what detectives told her, it was even more difficult to keep their marriage afloat. On top of that, their businesses started to suffer as well, and Herb's life was slowly starting to fall apart. Julie would later say, "...it was a very horrible financial time, bad for our businesses, and a strenuous time in our relationship."

Herb eventually left the home due to the state of their marriage, and when Christmas came around that year, Julie decided to take the kids and spend it with her family, all while the police were trying to find evidence to bring Herb to justice. By now, all of the evidence that they had was circumstantial, so they decided to take a different route.

A forensic anthropologist named Stephen Meraki suggested that they do an aerial search from a helicopter. They used infrared cameras hoping to pick up heat from decaying bodies on the property, but unfortunately they weren't able to find anything. Eventually 1995 would come to an end and by January of '96, the Baumeisters were doing worse than ever.

Their save-a-lot thrift store wasn't making any money, their home was about to go into foreclosure, and it was during this time when Julie decided to file for divorce. Her attorney, Bill Wendling, would later say, quote, I think that Julie was in significant denial on what was going on. I wasn't sure if she was really hearing what was being told to her or understanding what was being told to her.

and she asked me to contact Mary to try and get some information that would help resolve those questions." Now that Herb and Julie were getting divorced, Julie was becoming interested in the investigation, and I think she slowly came to realize that her husband was guilty of these murders. Detective Mary Wilson would later say that she could tell by the way Julie and her attorney were talking that she knew more than she was saying.

like she was withholding information. And Mary Wilson was right. For the first time ever,

Julie told her attorney about the human body found on her property years earlier, and it would only be a matter of time until she told detectives about this discovery. Now, shortly after this, the Save-A-Lot thrift store closes for good, and randomly one day afterwards, Herb comes by their Fox Hollow home and takes their son, Eric. He allegedly wanted to take him on an impromptu trip to Lake Wallasey. Now, right after Herb left with Eric,

Julie looked at their bank account where they shared all of their money, and all of it was gone. After seeing this, Julie became gravely concerned. She was already aware that Herb was unstable, and now he took off with their son and all of their money. And it was here where Julie decided she needed to come clean about her husband.

After calling her attorney, Julie placed a call to Detective Wilson and left her a voicemail saying she had some very important information to discuss with her. Upon hearing the voicemail, Mary quickly made her way over to Fox Hollow Farms, where Julie came clean about the human body found on her property years earlier. She told him that it looked like someone had laid down and died. It was a complete skeleton.

They then asked if she could take them to where the bones were and Julie walked them over to the location. It was, of course, empty by now. Herb had made sure to clean it after his son's discovery. But finally, Julie gave investigators permission to search the property. When they got the full search team to Fox Hollow Farms, it was a hot day and the tree brush around the property was very dense, so it wasn't going to be an easy search.

But after some time, someone would find what they thought was a human bone. Julie said as soon as they found that first bone, the rest of the day was a total blur. All of their suspicions were true. Her husband was a serial killer.

and he was burying her victims right under her nose. And interestingly enough, the family's lawyer was outside that day and he himself actually found a set of teeth while he was walking around. Julie said that throughout the day, she could hear statements that shocked her to her core. Statements like, "Make sure you use a bag if you're gonna pick up the bone."

Or, I found something else over here. Throughout the day, investigators found over 5,000 bones throughout the property. And after bringing them back to the lab, they confirmed that they were indeed human bones. Among the bones, they found that a lot of them had been burned.

They noticed that the large bones that were still intact were found on the west side of the property near the stream and the smaller bones were found burned behind the home. They also noted that it seemed like the older bones were found further back in the property

but over time they were getting closer and closer to their backyard. And this just shows that over the years Herb was getting more confident and more sloppy. I mean, leaving full intact skeletons in your backyard when you have children that run around is careless to say the least. And after the property was excavated, they found seven left first metacarpal bones alone.

which meant that they at least had seven people out there. After a full examination of all of the bones on the property, it's estimated that there was about 11 bodies at Fox Hollow Farms. And based on the DNA, eight of the 11 victims were identified as Johnny Bayer, Richard Hamilton, Stephen Hale, Alan Broussard, Jeff Jones, Manuel Resendez,

Roger Allen Goodlett, and Michael Kierne. Now, while the search of Fox Hollow Farms was taking place, officers left to go find Herb and his son near Lake Wawassee. But believe it or not, they weren't going there to arrest Herb. They were just going there to pick up Eric so they could bring him home. And that's exactly what they did. They got Eric and brought him back to Julie without ever even questioning Herb.

According to Detective Mary Wilson, as soon as the bodies were found on his property, it was no longer her case. The bodies were found in a different jurisdiction, so now she was just assisting investigators in Hamilton County. And for whatever reason, the 11 bodies found on Herb's property just wasn't enough to prove that Herb was a serial killer in their minds.

Sergeant Kenneth Wissman would later say, "We did not question Mr. Baumeister at the time. What we wanted to do was see exactly what we had first before we developed a plan of action." Which is literally the dumbest thing I have ever heard. I mean, they have 11 bodies on his property

And I'm not really sure what more they could want, but the Hamilton County Police Department would soon learn that they made a huge mistake. Because shortly after word spreading around town about the bodies found on Fox Hollow Farms, Herb Baumeister would disappear. No one knew exactly where Herb was in the week after the discoveries on his property. He had called his brother before his disappearance and asked him for money, but that was the last time anyone had heard from him.

And it wasn't until July 3rd, 1996 when they would finally get those answers, but it wasn't the ending anyone had hoped for. Herb Baumeister had fled to Ontario, Canada after hearing about the bodies found on his property. He knew that prison was just on the horizon, and instead of facing a jury and going to trial, Herb decided to end his own life before he could be brought to justice. He would later be found in the provincial park in Grand Bend,

with a bullet hole in his head. Lying next to his lifeless body was a .357 Magnum and a three-page long suicide note. In the note, Herb mentions his children and reasons to why he killed himself, but the reasons were his failing businesses and marriage. Never one time does he mention the murders or the bodies found on his property. At the end of the suicide note, he writes that he's going to eat a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and then go to bed.

The state of Indiana was absolutely shocked to learn of the serial killer that had been lurking through Indianapolis. And interestingly enough, after word got out about these horrific murders,

detectives unearthed another string of murders that they believe are also linked to Herb Baumeister. They're often referred to as the I-70 murders or the I-70 strangulations. In the 1980s and early 90s,

The interstate that connects Indiana and Ohio became a dumping ground for a serial killer operating in the area. The first body found was a 15-year-old Michael Petrie, who was found naked near I-70 in a rural part of Hamilton County. Michael was a prostitute in the city and he was known to hang out around the very bars that Herb Baumeister would frequent.

Then, two years later, 23-year-old Maurice Taylor would be found near I-70 in a rural town close to Hamilton County. At the time of his murder, he had been struggling for cash and had recently been participating in sex work to support himself.

A few months later, 14-year-old Delvoid Lee Baker was found partially nude near a river in Hamilton County. Witnesses stated that he was last seen getting into a blue vehicle with a young white man, which seems to match Herb's description. It would later come out that in the months before he was murdered, Delvoid had been experimenting with prostitution and hanging out around the Indianapolis gay bars. The following year, in May of 1983, 22-year-old Michael Andrew Riley was found strangled to death in a ditch.

He was last seen walking around with an unfamiliar man. Two years later, in May of 1985, 17-year-old Eric Allen Rutger was found strangled to death near a stream in a rural part of Ohio, along I-70. According to his friends and family, Eric wasn't gay, but he was last seen waiting for a bus outside of a bus station when he decided to accept a ride from a random man.

The following year, in August of 1986, 29-year-old Michael Allen Glenn would be found strangled wearing only underwear near a ditch in Eden, Ohio. He worked as a handyman outside of Indianapolis and no one that knew him said that he was gay, but he was strangled to death with a rope.

The following year in 1987, 21-year-old James Robbins was last seen walking from his mother's house in Indianapolis. His naked body would later be found strangled to death in a ditch near Shelby County, Indiana. Then, two years later, in May of 1989, Jean Paul Talbott would also be found near a stream

in Defiance County, Ohio. A few months later, 26-year-old Stephen L. Elliott was found partially nude and strangled in a rural part of Preble County, Ohio, near I-70. His father would later tell investigators that Stephen had been involved in prostitution before his murder. The following summer, in August of 1990, 32-year-old Clay Russell Boatman, who was a licensed practical nurse, was found strangled in a ditch near Eaton, Ohio. He

he was last seen leaving his apartment to go to a local gay bar. That same month, 19-year-old Thomas Clevenger Jr. was found partially nude near an abandoned railroad in Greenville, Ohio. Shortly before his death, Thomas engaged in prostitution to support himself. And finally, the last victim of the I-70 killings was 42-year-old Otto Gary Becker, whose body was found in a ditch in Henry County, Indiana, in October of 1991.

Now, interestingly enough, there are a lot of connections between the murders here and the murders at Fox Hollow Farms. For instance, most of the men that were found along I-70 were gay or had ties to the gay community. Many of them even frequented the exact bars that herbed it.

They were also all strangled, which we know was Herb's favorite method of killing. Another similarity was that most of the men were found in the spring or summertime, which was usually when Herb would murder his victims. And if that isn't enough evidence for you, it also came out after the murder of Herb.

after Herb killed himself, that he was constantly driving along I-70 throughout the 80s and 90s for "work trips." Julie would later say that Herb took that route at least 100 times over the years. And even further, bodies stopped appearing along I-70 in the year 1991, and the following year, in 1992,

Herb and Julie moved into their home on Fox Hollow Farms. Now, it is widely believed that Herb was the I-70 Strangler, and after he bought the 18-acre property, he just found a more convenient dumping ground, which means that his victim count could possibly be a lot higher. But with Herb dead, there's only room for speculation.

And one thing that really makes this case stand out to us, specifically me, because I'm a paranormal investigator,

is the fact that Fox Hollow Farm is known as one of the most haunted places in the entire state of Indiana Some would even claim that it's one of the most haunted places in the entire United States Ever since Herb Baumeister committed his crimes on that piece of land and then took his life before even having to answer for any of them there has indeed seemingly been a stain, a dark mark left upon those hallowed grounds

Personally, I know that the first time I ever heard this story was thanks to the TV show Ghost Adventures, which I used to watch religiously when I was younger, and the property always seemed to call out my name. Something is there.

In 2009, Fox Hollow Farm was purchased by Rob and Vicki Graves, a couple who were looking to escape the busier, more stressful city life and find a more rural, comfortable place to call home. Initially, they didn't know that the property they were looking to purchase was THE Fox Hollow Farm, but after touring the home and asking their realtor, they found out that the house was selling for so cheap because it at one point was home to Indiana's most prolific serial killer.

However, after some discussion, Rob and Vicki decided that they were okay with the home's macabre history, and they purchased Fox Hollow Farm for a low price. Initially, after moving in, Rob and Vicki, along with their children, found the property to be welcoming and calm. It was serene, a large swath of land and a grandiose farmhouse, away from the hustle and bustle of nearby Indianapolis. But that wouldn't last for long. One of the first paranormal experiences that Vicki had came one day when she was vacuuming.

The kids had dragged some gravel into the pool area from outside, and Vicki grabbed the vacuum and was busy sucking up all the dirt and rocks from the area around the pool. But as she was vacuuming, the vacuum suddenly powered off. When she went to check on what had happened, she saw that the cord that powered the vacuum had been unplugged from the socket. "Strange," she thought to herself, but brushing it off, she plugged the cord back in and went back to work. A few moments later, however,

The power cord was once again unplugged from the wall. So, for the second time, Vicky walks over, plugs it back in, and goes back to work. But it was when it happened for a third time that Vicky felt goosebumps begin to cover her body. It was at that moment when she realized that, even though she was the only living person in the pool area, she wasn't alone in the room.

It wasn't long after this incident that Vicky would see the man in the red shirt for the first time. It was an average day, Rob was painting in another room, and Vicky looked outside through a window and noticed a man standing on their property in a red shirt staring at her. After the two locked eyes, the man turned around and walked off into the woods, and it was at this point when Vicky noticed that the man had no legs.

He was floating. When Vicky and Rob gave chase to the man, they couldn't find a trace of him anywhere on the property. They talked about what Vicky had seen and determined that the man may have been some sort of true crime tourist interested in seeing the home. And after this, they had security cameras installed on the property to deter more morbidly curious visitors from paying them visits.

At one point, one of Rob's coworkers, a man named Joe LeBlanc, moved in with the Graves in order to be closer to where he and Rob worked. There was an apartment on property that the couple had offered Joe, and seizing the opportunity, Joe quickly moved in with his dog Fred. Almost immediately after settling into his new place, Joe became plagued with nightmares. On the first night that he officially spent in his new apartment, Joe dreamt of being chased by something evil.

When he awoke from this dream, he took off running and smacked right into the doorframe of the apartment, shattering some glass and knocking himself down to the ground. Whatever he had dreamt of was so real, so threatening, that it had translated from the dream world into the real world. Joe felt like something on property wanted to hurt him, and this was only the first experience he would have while living at Fox Hollow Farms.

During his time spent living on the farm, Joe would experience an extreme amount of violent and frightening paranormal activity. On multiple occasions, something would knock on the door to his apartment in the middle of the night. Every time, Joe would call out, "Who's there?" and never received an answer. When he would open the front door to the apartment where the knocking was coming from, all he ever saw was darkness, the empty expanse of night.

Joe even watched in horror as, after he heard the knocking, the doorknob began to turn and shake violently, as if someone was trying to enter the apartment.

Suddenly, the front door burst open and wood chips and wind flew into the apartment. But even though this thing, this entity had now opened the door and entered his living quarters, Joe still hadn't seen who had been trying to get in. This was about to change. As Joe checked out the apartment door that had just burst open by itself, he stepped outside for a moment. When he looked back in the room, he saw a young man running for his life.

The young man locked eyes with Joe, noticed him standing there, and then disappeared. But this wasn't the last time that Joe would see a spirit on the property. It was a dark, cold night, and Joe was walking his dog, Fred, up and down the driveway of the farm. As the cold night air whipped his face, Joe noticed that Fred's ears had perked up. Fred was seeing something in the nearby woods. Suddenly, Fred took off running into the tree line, and Joe noticed that he was chasing after a man in a red shirt.

Not wanting to lose track of his dog, Joe took off running after Fred into the woods. He searched frantically with his flashlight, peeking around every tree and every bush, when out of nowhere, Joe came face to face with the man in red. Joe screamed, quickly turned around, and ran as fast as he could back towards his apartment with Fred in tow. After discussing what had happened to him with Rob and Vicky, the three then realized that there was a spirit of a man in red haunting their property.

On another occasion, Joe was once again walking Fred when the dog took off running After losing track of him for a second, Joe quickly located Fred and then noticed what he had been drawn to It was a human bone sitting under a pile of leaves When he dug the bone out from the brush, he was able to discern that it looked like a femur or leg bone After the bone was sent in to detectives and some analysis was done, it was determined that indeed the bone was human

Detectives have gone on record and claim that they believe there are probably loads of human remains still scattered buried throughout the woods that surround Fox Hollow Farms. And the area where the bone had been located? That's where both Joe and Vicki had seen the man in the red shirt who had no legs.

The penultimate paranormal experience at the farm came when a friend of Joe's named Jeremy paid a visit to the property, along with a few other friends, in hopes to disprove the rumors of the place being haunted. Joe and the group of guys at one point decided to have a swim and were in the pool when suddenly Joe felt somebody touch his back.

Thinking it was one of his friends, Joe thought nothing of it, but before he could react, he was violently pulled under the water by an unseen force. Jeremy watched in horror as his friend Joe placed his own hands around his neck and began to choke himself out while underwater. Rushing to their friend's aid, the group of guys managed to break Joe out from his stupor and get him out of the pool.

Something invisible, something evil, something malevolent attacked Joe in the pool that day. Could it have been the spirit of Herb Baumeister himself? I guess that's a mystery. We'll never know.

I'm personally dying to investigate Fox Hollow Farms. I know that Indiana is one of the next states that I want to visit for my YouTube channel. By the way, if you don't know, I have a YouTube channel called The Paranormal Files with 681,000 subscribers on YouTube, so if you do enjoy paranormal content, you can search for my channel. We put out a video every week, but that's aside from the point. I want to visit Fox Hollow Farms, and I want to investigate to help try to find some answers.

Who is the spirit of the man in the red shirt? Is he the spirit of a victim that was never fully recovered? Could Herb Baumeister himself still be haunting his former property? Once again, those are questions to which I don't think we'll ever have answers.

After his suicide, news spread quickly throughout Indiana about the serial killer hiding in plain sight. But the media referred to Herb as a businessman, a landowner, or family man. They also made sure to emphasize that some of his murder victims had been arrested for prostitution. Instead of looking at these men as victims, the media called them troubled victims.

homosexuals and prostitutes, or men on the margins of society. Which is just another heartbreaking aspect to this story. Now, many of the victims' families had a lot of questions about Julie, like how could she not have known that her husband was a serial killer, especially when he was discarding their bodies on their property. But investigators were able to quickly rule Julie out as an accomplice,

Her calendar showed that she was away every single time a man went missing, which means that Herb Baumeister really did succeed at living a double life.

But because he killed himself that July of 1996, there are still a lot of unanswered questions surrounding this case. Yes, the case is closed, and everyone knows that Herb was a murderer. But because he was never officially charged, the only label that he has is that he is the, quote, suspected killer of these men.

which doesn't seem like enough to me. But this story really makes you question just how well you know the people in your life. At the end of the day, everyone has secrets, but some people's secrets seem to be bigger than others.

Hey, everybody. It's Colin again. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Murder in America. I can't believe we are getting 700,000 downloads a month, according to some of our analytics, which is crazy. We have such a big Murder in America family. Courtney and I are planning...

on doing a Murder in America merch drop, an official one coming up into the Halloween season. So everybody stay tuned for that. But for now, I want to shout out all of our wonderful new patrons who joined our Patreon this week. Debra Anderson, Emily P., Lori Growl here, Kelly,

Rita Roses, Laura Murphy, Emily Wilson, Ashley McKenney, Christina Poduck, Connie Sanders, Isabella Perales, Courtney, Emma Padilla, Taylor, Meredith Sellers, Ava, Sally Mandil, Michaela Lloyd, Elizabeth Lamboy, and Crystal Adair. Once again, guys, I'm sorry if I slaughtered your name when I read them, but...

Wow! We have so many patrons out there. If you're not on Patreon, you're missing out. Courtney and I post on there. We post some exclusive stuff, and we post the ad-free version of every single episode on there as soon as it goes live on all streaming platforms. So if you don't like the ads, join the Patreon, join the family. We are so excited about some of the episodes we have planned for the next month or two and coming into the Halloween season.

We have some absolutely wild shows that we are planning right now and writing and producing. So, yeah, we love everybody so much. Sorry this episode was a day late, but I hope you guys enjoyed it. And, yeah, as always, we are so unbelievably thankful to have everybody out there joining us every week.

to listen to these oftentimes horrific stories. If you want to do us a big favor, go leave us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts. I love reading what you guys have to say about the show and go follow our Instagram at Murder in America. We just hit 20,000 followers on there. Thank you all so much. And we'll see you next week. Have a great weekend, everybody.