EP. 62 CONNECTICUT - The Petit Home Invasion: Cheshire's Dark Stain 01:16:22

He's the most terrifying serial killer you've never heard of. Haddon Clark has confessed to several murders, but investigators say he could have over 100 victims. At the center of the mayhem, a cellmate of Haddon's that was able to get key evidence into Haddon's murder spree across America,

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murder, and offenses against children. This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned. It's July 22nd, 2007 in the town of Cheshire, Connecticut. Within this town is the Pettit family. There's Dr. William Pettit, his wife Jennifer, and their two daughters, 17-year-old Haley and 11-year-old Michaela.

On this particular night, the youngest daughter, Michaela, wanted to make dinner for her family. But as the young chef went through the pantry, she realized that they were missing a few ingredients. So she convinces her mom to drive her to the store. Once they arrive, the two get out of the car and make their way inside, completely unaware of what's going on.

that the man parked next to them in the grocery store parking lot would eventually follow them home. They never noticed his watch fly, and even if they did, they could have never known what he was actually capable of.

After grabbing their groceries, the mom and daughter would hop back into their car while the evil man followed close behind, creating a devious plan of burglary, rape, murder, and arson. This is the story of the Pettit family home invasion. I'm Courtney Brown. And I'm Colin Brown. And you're listening to Murder in America. Murder in America.

Cheshire, Connecticut is a beautiful New England town full of agriculture, gardens, parks, and massive red maple and black birch trees. The town is full of history, and it's rated one of the best places to live in Connecticut, a place where many people come to settle down and raise a family, which is exactly what the Pettit family decided to do back in the early 2000s. William Pettit, the patriarch, grew up in Plainville, Connecticut, where he was a high school basketball star.

and one of the smartest in his graduating class. After high school, he went on to graduate cum laude at Dartmouth, but he always dreamed of becoming a doctor. So, he continued his education studying medicine at the University of Pittsburgh. It was here during his third year residency at Pittsburgh's Children's Hospital.

where he met a beautiful young oncology nurse named Jennifer Hawk. Jennifer was not only beautiful, but she was kind and nurturing, exactly the kind of person you would want caring for your own child. She and William seemed like the perfect match, and they were. Shortly after meeting, the two would fall in love and eventually get married on April 13th, 1985.

Life was busy for the couple as Mr. Pettit worked to become Dr. Pettit, but everything was slowly starting to fall into place. Four years after they got married, on October 15th, 1989, the couple welcomed their first child, a daughter who they named Haley Elizabeth.

And now that their family's growing, William and Jennifer start to look for their dream home. Many of the homes in Cheshire are big, over-the-top mansions, concealed by thick trees. But the Pettits wanted something a little more modest. And one day, they found it. It was a beautiful light green colonial home located on 300 Sorghum Mill Drive.

It even had a small garden out front for Jennifer and a basketball court out back for William. And when the Pettits saw it for the first time, it seemed like the perfect place to settle down and raise a family. So they bought the home, completely unaware of the horrors that would occur inside of its walls years later.

After a few years living in the home on 300 Sorghum Mill Drive, William and Jennifer decided to complete their family by having another baby. They welcomed Michaela Rose into the world on November 17, 1995, and soon after her birth, they gave her the nickname KK. They were a picture-perfect family, a doctor and nurse with two beautiful, healthy young girls, and they were just so happy.

But like every family, the Pettits did have their share of hardships. When the girls were younger, Jennifer, their mother, was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. It was hard on their family, but they never let it hold them back. When Haley was just 10 years old, she even started a fundraiser for the National Multiple Sclerosis Society called Haley's Hope, a fundraiser that gained a lot of money throughout the years.

Haley would go on to attend Miss Porter's school, which was an all-girls private prep school. There, she played cross-country, crew, and basketball like her father. She was even elected for the senior leadership position of athletic association head. Haley was a smart and hardworking girl, just like her parents, but she was also very passionate about helping those in need. By the time she was 17, the Haley's Hope fundraiser had raised over $55,000.

She was proud of all the money she had raised to try and help those with multiple sclerosis. By the end of her high school career, Haley had been accepted into Dartmouth following in her father's footsteps, and she proudly handed over the fundraiser to her younger sister, who renamed it "Mikaela's Miracle." Mikaela was happy to carry on her sister's fundraiser. At the time of our story, she was just 11 years old, with braces and beautiful blonde hair like her mom.

She was attending the Chase Collegiate School and living life like most preteens do, hanging out with friends and trying out different hobbies. One that Michaela had recently got into was cooking. She had spent many of her summer nights practicing her skills and having her family test out her creations, which is exactly what she was doing on Sunday, July 22nd, 2007. It had been a perfect summer's day.

The temperature was in the low 80s and there had been a nice breeze blowing through Cheshire. Earlier that day, Dr. Pettit had played a few rounds of golf with his father at the country club while Haley and Michaela went to the beach club to go swimming.

Later that evening, after a long day, the entire Pettit family returned back to their home, where Michaela was excited to make everyone a nice meal. The dinner she had picked out was a homemade pasta using garlic, basil, and a Cheshire tomato base.

For the side, she made a salad with balsamic vinaigrette. But after rummaging through her pantry, Michaela realizes that they're missing some ingredients. So she recruits her mom to drive her to the store, and she even convinces her older sister Haley to tag along. The three ladies pile into their white Mercedes minivan and make the drive over to the stop and shop.

nearby. Once there, Michaela and Jennifer go inside the store while Haley stays in the car. But little did they know, as they walked inside, someone in the parking lot was watching them. The young man kept a watchful eye on the mother and daughter, admiring their beauty.

He also admired the silhouette of the young girl that was still in the car. The girls never noticed him among the dozens of other people in the parking lot that evening. They didn't notice his car following close behind either. Once back home, the girls unload their groceries and Michaela would make her family their dinner. As they all sat around the table eating their homemade pasta, they were blissfully unaware that this would be their last dinner together as a family.

Afterward, they cleaned up the kitchen and the girls started getting ready for bed. Hailey puts on a PJ set she received for Christmas and Michaela puts on a pair of orange pajamas. The girls then settled down to read some Harry Potter. Hailey was almost finished with the final book in the series.

while Michaela had just started on the first book. And as they read, their eyes started to get heavy, a sign that it was time for bed. Haley eventually drifts off, but Michaela decides to walk down the hallway and climb into bed with her mom. The only person still awake was Dr. Pettit, who was sitting on a chair on the back porch. And as time drifts on, the house grows quiet and still.

these would be the last few moments of peace before the Pettit family encounters two men named Joshua Komarcewski and Stephen Hayes. Josh Komarcewski had a long criminal history before July 22, 2007. His family, whose name stands out amongst the town, has deep roots in Cheshire, Connecticut. They were a very respected family that had a strong hand in the arts. Josh's great-aunt was named Vera Komarcewski,

who was an actress on the Russian stage. She even had a theater named after her. Josh's grandpa was a respected theater director, but all of their hard work and reputation would be ruined by Josh. He wasn't like the other members in his family. Maybe that's because he was adopted. Josh was born on August 10th, 1980, but shortly after he was put into a foster home with Jude and Benedict Komisarzewski.

And almost immediately, they could tell that Josh was different from other kids his age. For one, Josh was considered to be a genius with a very high IQ, but he never did well in school. In elementary school, he was placed into special education classes, but his parents soon realized that he wasn't doing well here either. So, they started homeschooling him. And even though his parents kept a watchful eye out for their son, he always seemed to get into trouble.

At 14, he was sent to the Elmcrest Psychiatric Hospital in Portland, Connecticut after committing arson and burglary on several different occasions. Josh also had a history of being suicidal. On one occasion, he wrote a suicide note and then hid from cops in the woods behind his grandfather's property while carving the word "hate" into his forearm with a hunting knife. Josh was even accused of sexually assaulting his younger foster sister when he was a teenager, but his troubles didn't stop there.

One of Josh's favorite things to do was burglarize houses, and he was really good at it too. He committed his first burglary when he was just 14 years old, and by the time he was an adult, he had perfected his burglary skills. It didn't matter how big the house was or whose house he was breaking into, he could do it. He would start by putting on latex gloves so that no fingerprints would be left behind.

Then, he would put on night vision goggles so that he could easily make his way around the house once the family was asleep. And yes, he would do this while the family was inside. Josh would find an unlocked door or an open window and somehow find his way inside. Next, he would walk room to room gathering anything of value that he could find.

Sometimes, he would be inside the house for hours while the family lay fast asleep in their beds.

Then, before leaving, he would walk into each of their bedrooms and listen to the people breathe. Something about it gave Josh a thrill, knowing that he was intruding in people's personal space. Josh was good at what he did. Years of burglaries helped him gain the knowledge of what to do and what not to do. But that's not to say that Josh never got caught.

In fact, by the time Josh was 22 years old, he had been charged with 18 counts of burglary two, one count of burglary three, and two counts of larceny. These charges landed him in jail and he was facing a lot of prison time.

His defense attorney for these charges was a man named William Gerace. He said in the HBO documentary called "The Cheshire Murders" that when he first saw Josh, he was a small, skinny, and polite guy. He didn't look like a criminal. In addition, Josh's past didn't look like other criminals he had worked with. He had grown up in a loving and supportive family. So why did he have such a long record? According to William, Josh's attention to detail was unlike anything he had ever seen. Josh was able to recall every single detail of every burglary he had ever committed.

He could tell you every item he stole and exactly where it was in the house when he took it. He could tell you the exact dollar amounts he stole from wallets and the exact dumpsters he would toss stuff in after the burglaries. And he was risky with his crimes. At one point, he had even burglarized a state trooper's house. At Josh's trial for these burglaries, he knew he was facing a lot of prison time, and when he spoke to the judge, he seemed very remorseful.

When they asked him if there was anything he wanted to say, he said, "I am truly sorry. I wish that some of the victims had shown up today because I really wanted to express to them that I really am sorry for the things I did. And when I said that I wish there was more that I could do, I truly wish that there was anything I could do for them." And with that, the judge sentenced him to nine years in prison. Now, this is an incredibly lenient sentence.

Usually, just one burglary charge will land you a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison. And Josh had 18, meaning he could have spent the rest of his life in prison. But the judge showed mercy and only sentenced him to 9 years. Unfortunately, Josh would only end up serving 5 years of his 9-year sentence.

They let him out on parole in 2007. 2007 is also the year he would go on to commit the Pettit home invasion. It doesn't seem like he got any rehabilitation during his time in prison. Now, when they released him, his own defense attorney told the courts that he thought Josh was a danger to society and that they should keep surveillance on him. But they don't listen.

I guess the Department of Corrections didn't really view Josh as a high risk. In their mind, he had only been incarcerated once. He was polite, homeschooled, smart, and he was remorseful in court about his actions. So they didn't feel the need to keep a close eye on him, a decision they would go on to regret. After his release, Josh found himself a girlfriend named Caroline, who was only 16 years old.

Keep in mind, Josh is 27, nearly 10 years older. Caroline's father said that he hated the fact that she and Josh were dating, and he felt like the only reason Josh liked her in the first place was because Caroline looked like a little girl.

When Josh talked to her dad about the two of them getting married, her father said, "Absolutely not. For one, you're a career criminal, and two, you're a pedophile." Josh's response, "I'm sorry you feel that way." But her parents' disapproval did not keep them from dating. Caroline said that she and Josh were soulmates, even after his arrest, and their relationship progressed quickly. The two would often spend their free time driving through nice neighborhoods,

where Josh would tell her, quote, "I want to start a family and live in a house like this one day." These drives would go on to give Josh ideas on the houses he planned to rob in the future. But another interesting part of their relationship is that he and Caroline were very sexual, and something he really enjoyed was dominating the 16-year-old and tying her up whenever he got the chance, which is something that will come into play later on in our story.

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But as for now, Josh still had a lot of freedom, even though he was on parole. Like we mentioned, the Department of Corrections didn't keep a close eye on him because they didn't think he was a threat to society. He was even living at a halfway house at the time, so everyone thought he was in good hands. At this halfway house, Josh had to speak with a counselor every day named Michael DeLuce, and Michael had a very different view of Josh than other people did. He described Josh as a troubled kid that really wanted to do well and turn his life around.

He and Josh talked about how he wanted to stay clean and make his family proud. He even wanted to continue on with his education and become an architect. But as we know now, Josh would never go on to do any of those things. And it was here at this halfway house where Josh would meet a man named Stephen Hayes, a true friendship made in heaven.

in hell. But before we go on to tell you the murderous plan made by these two monsters, let's take a look into Stephen's life and how he ended up at the halfway house with Josh. Stephen Hayes was born on May 30th, 1963 and was the oldest of three boys.

According to the HBO documentary on this case, his brothers had absolutely nothing good to say about him. Since he was a little boy, Stephen was known to be mean, deceptive, and manipulating, always picking on his brothers any chance he could. Stephen's first run-in with the law was when he was just 16 years old, and there would be many more run-ins after that. In fact, Stephen's

By 2007, Stephen had been arrested nearly 30 times, and his crime of choice was burglary. But Stephen didn't like to burglarize houses like Josh. He was more into robbing cars. Instead of getting a normal job like most people, Stephen would sit out in the parking lots of stores or parks.

and he would wait until someone would leave their car unattended. When the coast was clear, he would break in and steal anything he could find: radios, purses, money, laptops, phones, anything of value. His life was a constant cycle of going to jail, getting out, breaking parole, and getting sent back.

In between jail time, Stephen ended up having a daughter named Alicia, who would end up joining the police academy. Alicia would go on to say that Stephen tried to be a good dad. He would take her out to the movies and try and spend quality time with her, but he was never able to stay out of trouble. A father-daughter relationship is hard to maintain when the father is constantly behind bars.

But one person that always seemed to give Stephen a second chance was his mother. At the time of our story, Stephen was living with her again. He didn't have a job or anything going for him, but he would constantly feed his mom lies, telling her that he was about to run into a lot of money and that when he did, he would buy her a nice house and give her anything she wanted. When

When Stephen's brothers heard this, however, they knew he was full of it. The only time Stephen ever came into money was when he stole it, which is exactly what he was doing at the time.

Eventually, Stephen's mother found out that he was getting into trouble. It's unclear exactly what she found out, but she knew her son was breaking the law again, and by now she had had enough. By this point, he was 44 years old, still living with her and still robbing his way through life. So she told him to leave. Stephen begged her to let him stay, even asking her, "Where am I supposed to go?"

But his mother told him, "I don't care where you go. Go to a halfway house for all I care. Just get out of my house." And with that, Stephen left. That was a Friday, just two days before the home invasion. After leaving his mom's house, Stephen knew his life was going nowhere, so he decided to check into a hotel for the night, bringing loads of crack cocaine and heroin with him. He would later claim that he had planned to go on a drug binge and die by a suicidal overdose that night.

After doing all of the drugs, Stephen was still alive, and he took this as a sign that he needed to take his mother's advice and check himself into a halfway house. On his first day, Stephen would write in his therapy notes, "For this addict, drugs are not my main problem. I am my main problem. My self-destructive attitude and behavior. What I like about getting high is to escape my feelings. I've self-medicated so much, I don't know how to feel anymore. Unresolved anger controls me. It haunts me day and night, sometimes to the point of obsession."

But this was only the beginning of Stephen's self-destruction, and it wouldn't be long until he met his accomplice, Josh Komisarzewski. It was an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting where the two would cross paths.

Josh had been attending them for a while. Stephen was a new member. Usually, the leaders of these meetings encourage you to talk with others in the group, share your experiences, and hold each other accountable. So when Josh and Stephen first introduced themselves to one another, it seemed harmless, like two addicts bonding over shared struggles.

And the two would bond alright, but not in the way that anyone would have hoped. Josh opened up to Steven about his past run-ins with the law. And in return, Steven told Josh about how he had hit rock bottom and didn't have any money or place to go. But instead of offering his moral support, Josh saw an opportunity. You see, days earlier, Josh had gotten his electronic monitoring device removed.

meaning his parole officers could no longer track his location. So he tells Stephen, "You know, if you really want to make some money, you gotta rob houses."

And it was here where the two started planning the idea of burglarizing houses together. They didn't know exactly who they were going to steal from or even where, but the idea was planted in both of their minds that they were going to rob some houses and come into some extra cash. The two would meet in the Stop and Shop parking lot that night around midnight. On the surface, Josh and Steven don't really look like they would be friends.

Stephen was 18 years older, talkative and outgoing, while Josh was quiet and a little awkward. And physically, the two looked even more opposite. Josh was young and thin, with dark hair and eyes, while Stephen was middle-aged, a little hefty and bald. But regardless of their physical differences, the two did share one thing in common: they were criminals.

and they were hours away from committing their worst crime yet. The following day, Sunday, July 22nd, 2007, Josh is sitting in the Stop and Shop parking lot waiting on a roofing contractor to deliver his money for the week. When the contractor finally shows to deliver the cash, Josh realizes that he didn't get as much money as he was promised.

Angry that he was shorted, Josh sits in his red Chevy blowing off steam and smoking Camel cigarettes. When out of the blue, a white minivan pulls into the parking lot next to him. Josh carefully watches as a mom and daughter get out of the car and make their way into the store. He observes that the mom, Jennifer Pettit, is blonde and youthful, but her 11-year-old daughter, Michaela, is who really catches his attention. She's almost as tall as her mother, with pretty blonde hair wrapped up in a high ponytail.

If you remember, the 27-year-old has an attraction to younger girls. Josh also notices the other young girl that stayed behind in the car, 17-year-old Haley. Josh waits in his Chevy, wanting to get another glance at the mother and daughter. After a few minutes, the two emerge, holding a brown paper bag of groceries. Later, Josh would recall...

It really was the perfect storm. Because at that exact moment, he gets a phone call from Stephen Hayes asking him what his plans were for that evening. And as Josh watched the Pettit girls get into their minivan, he knew exactly what their plans were going to be. Josh turns on the ignition and follows the minivan out of the parking lot. But he makes sure to lag behind

not wanting to raise any suspicion that he was following the family. Then eventually, he watches as they pull into the driveway at 300 Sorghum Mill Drive. But it wasn't time to rob their house just yet. He needed to call his accomplice, Stephen Hayes. Once Stephen arrived in the parking lot, he hopped into Josh's red Chevy and the two took off down Route 10. In the back seat, there was a bag with all of their tools and weapons for the night, including zip ties, masks...

gas cans, and a modified BB gun. The BB gun and zip ties proved that Josh had more in mind than just a burglary. But before they got to the Pettit house, the two decided to stop by a local bar for some beer and shots. They stayed there drinking until closing time, which was at 1am that night. Afterwards, wanting to kill a little bit more time, they drink and drive through the neighborhoods until 2:30am, until they finally decide

that it's time. Sorghum Mill Drive was like every other suburban street at 3 a.m. on a Monday morning, completely silent. It was also dark, aside from the red Chevy headlights that were slowly creeping up the street. Josh parked about six to seven houses down from the Pennant residence, whispering to Steven, this is it, before turning off his headlights.

In their mind, there was no backing out. The men then get out of the vehicle, grab their bags full of tools and weapons, and make their way up the driveway with Josh in the lead. As they reach the backyard, they notice a small light coming from the sunroom, so they peek through the window. There, they see Dr. Pettit lying fast asleep in a lounge chair. They watch him for a few moments, deciding their next move. Eventually, they decide to try a nearby cellar door and find it unlocked.

Josh then turns on a small flashlight and sees a door that leads up into the basement. It's locked, but by this point Josh is proficient in burglaries and it was pretty easy for him to pick the lock. Now that they were inside, it was time for Josh to show Steven how it's done. Josh liked to take his time and study the house before making a move.

As the two crept through the home, Josh recalled seeing a lot of Christmas decorations, a washer and a dryer, some folding chairs, and a Louisville Slugger baseball bat. Knowing that the bat could do more damage than his BB gun, Josh picks it up before he and Stephen quietly make their way upstairs. Josh is confident and doesn't even check certain rooms before passing through them. His eyes at that time were on the sunroom where Dr. Pettit was sleeping.

Once the two enter the sunroom, they stand around the doctor who had no idea about the strangers in his home. And it was here when Josh decides that truly it was now or never. He raises the baseball bat above his head as high as it can go and swings it down with all of his might. Dr. Pettit woke to an excruciating pain in his head and an explosion of white light.

As he tries to focus on what just happened, he manages to make out a figure of a man holding a bat, but soon blood begins to blur his vision. And before he can confront the intruders, Josh swings the bat down on his head five more times. With each swing of the bat, more and more blood splattered around the room, painting the sunroom a disturbingly dark shade of crimson. Josh and Steven then use the zip ties to secure the doctor's hands and feet behind his back.

Shockingly, after six hard blows to the head, Dr. Pettit was somehow still conscious. While the doctor is bleeding in ziptide, Josh demands for him to describe the layout of the house and reveal where each of his family members are sleeping. After telling the intruders everything they needed to know, Josh and Steven drag his bloodied body down to the basement.

leaving a dark red trail of blood along the way. And now that Josh knew the layout of the home, he headed directly to the second floor staircase which faced the front door of the house. They were no longer worried about being quiet and the two carelessly stomped up the stairs toward the bedrooms. Josh then turned the doorknob of the first door he encounters. It's Haley's bedroom. She was still fast asleep as he crept up next to her bed

while Stephen blocked the doorway. As soon as he approaches her, Haley's eyes open wide, but she doesn't scream. Josh and Stephen then grab her and fasten her arms and legs to the bedpost spread-eagle using some rope they found in the basement.

Haley finally speaks, looking Josh dead in the eyes. She asks, why are you doing this? But Josh doesn't want to answer her questions. Instead, he flashes Haley a huge fake grin before heading down the hallway towards the master bedroom. Inside, Jennifer and Michaela are still sleeping. After walking in, Stephen approaches Jennifer's side of the bed while Josh approaches Michaela's.

Soon enough, the two would wake up to find the strangers standing beside them. Jennifer let out a sharp gasp, but managed to compose herself for the sake of her daughter. Michaela too opened her eyes wide in confusion, but like her sister, she never screamed. The 11-year-old still somehow kept her composure as Josh led her out of the room while Stephen tied Jennifer's hands behind her back.

It had only taken 15 minutes for Josh and Steven to beat Dr. Pettit and immobilize his entire family. After taking the family members hostage, Josh and Steven headed downstairs and lit up a couple of Camel cigarettes. The smell of smoke started to fill the home, making it painfully obvious to the Pettit family that this home was no longer theirs.

After this, Josh climbs the stairs and heads up to Michaela's bedroom. As he enters, she looks up at him with frightened, pleading eyes, and this, disturbingly, arouses Josh. But before he can act on his desires, he's interrupted by Steven, whose only goal was to rob the house of its valuables. So, Josh decides to put his dastardly deeds on hold.

Making their way through the home, the duo begins stealing all the family's jewels, cash, and even Michaela's precious coin collection. It was now 4:30 AM, about an hour and a half into the attack, and at this point the two men leave the Pettit home together. The two drop off the stolen goods at Stephen's truck, which is still parked at the stop and shop.

Then they drive to a gas station at the intersection of Prospect Road and West Main Street, where Stephen can be seen filling several plastic containers with gasoline on security cameras. Instead of driving immediately back to the Pettit home, they drop Josh's car off at the nearby Quarry Village development.

and walk the rest of the way. - Their little outing only took them about 20 minutes, but it was just enough time for them to come up with the perfect plan. The valuables that they stole at the Pettit house weren't worth nearly as much as they had hoped. So they decided that they were going to get Jennifer Pettit to withdraw money from her bank.

Once they arrived back at the house, the men tell Jennifer that if she wanted her daughters to live, she would have to accompany one of them to the bank. And there, without alerting anyone to what's going on, she would withdraw $15,000 in cash. They told her that if she did this without raising any suspicion, everything would be fine. If not, they would kill her and her family. So in a desperate attempt to save her girls' lives,

Jennifer agrees to accompany Stephen to the bank as soon as it opens. The men make a deal with her, but not without reminding her that if the cops get called or are involved in any way, her entire family would be murdered. Nodding, Jennifer said that she understood, and at 9am, she and Stephen leave in her car while Josh stays behind.

But as soon as his accomplice left, Josh made his way up to Michaela's room. He would later recall that she reminded him of his girlfriend, Caroline. Once in her bedroom, Josh released her arms and legs from the zip ties, then proceeded to take off her pajama set.

Next, he pulls out his cell phone and positions Michaela's body to his liking before snapping lewd photos of the underage child. Michaela then faces the unthinkable when Josh begins to rape her.

Afterwards, Josh leads Michaela down the hallway to the bathroom and orders her to clean herself off. He wanted to make sure that the cleansing was up to his standards to make sure none of his DNA evidence was left on or in her body. After Michaela dries herself off, Josh instructs her to put her pajamas back on before guiding her back to the bedroom, where he once again ties her arms and legs to the bedposts.

Running out of time, he then walks over to Haley's room. Over the past six hours, she had already tried to escape multiple times. At one point, he found her with his cell phone, attempting to call or text someone, and he had to wrestle it away from her. She was a fighter, he would later comment. But this time, when he checked on Haley, she was still incapacitated, her arms and legs still tightly bound to the bedpost with rope.

As he's in Haley's room observing his victim, Josh then hears Steven and Jennifer return through the front door of the home, which prompts him to head downstairs leaving Haley restrained and alone.

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Now let's go back and talk about what happened after Stephen and Jennifer left to go to the bank, some of the most eerie moments of this case. It had been raining that Monday morning as Stephen drove Jennifer to the Bank of America on Highland Avenue. Inside, the bank employees were just starting out their day with coffee cups in hand when Jennifer Pettit walked through the front doors at exactly 9.19 a.m.,

Upon entering, she takes a hard left towards the common area and begins frantically riding on a withdraw slip. After a few moments of waiting in line, she is called by a teller and approaches the counter. Jennifer pushes the paper through the slot in the window, and as the teller reads it, she realizes that this is not your everyday withdraw slip.

On the paper was a frantic message that read: "I need to take $15,000 out of my savings account in cash. I have to have the money because my family is being held hostage. If the police are notified, my family will be killed." Horrified, the teller gives Jennifer the money and hands the note to her bank manager.

And despite what the note said, employee Mary Lyons immediately calls the police to report what had just happened. But as she's on the phone with dispatch, Jennifer makes her way back out to the car where Stephen is waiting for her. My name is Mary Lyons. I'm the banking center manager. We have a lady who is in our bank right now who says that her husband and children are being held at their house.

The people are in a car outside the bank. She's getting $15,000 to bring out to them that if the police are told, they will kill the children and the husband. Her name is Jennifer Pettit, P-E-T-I-T. Okay, she still lives in the bank? Yes, she is. Okay, she's being held? Her husband and family is being held? Yes. At their house? Yes. They're tied up. She said they drove her here.

I'm trying to look and see where she's gone. She went outside, but I'm... Oh, wait, I see her walking now. She is petrified. I will watch and see what kind of car she gets in. I'm in my office with the lights off. My teller said that she saw the driver. He had a black hood over, a hoodie, and a baseball cap on. I'm going to keep you on hold for another couple minutes, all right? Okay.

It takes more than five minutes for the police to be notified of the incident. The officer who responded to the call at 9:27 a.m. was less than a mile from 300 Sorghum Mill Drive and was at their driveway by 9:28. He was initially instructed not to approach the house, so he does a walkthrough of the property before hiding behind a tree at the rear of the home.

A few minutes pass until backup arrives. They run the plates for the white Mercedes van and the 2005 Chrysler SUV that are parked in front of the home, and they both come back as being registered to the Pettits. Confused, the officers continue to wait outside. The five-minute gap from when Mary Lyons first called the police and when they actually got notified was enough of a delay for Stephen to beat the police back to the Pettit house.

And from that point on, authorities continued to refrain from knocking on the door of the home because according to the 911 call, the criminals had stated that the entire family would be killed if there was any police involvement. The order then came through from the higher-ups to wait on making any moves until the SWAT team arrived. So the officers sat back and did as they were told. Because of the delay in notifying the police...

Stephen and Jennifer made it back home with no issues. At this point, the men don't even know that the police are on their way. Once inside of the home, Josh and Stephen start to plan their next move.

Now, this next part is a little unclear because certain sources say different things. According to the HBO documentary, as soon as Steven came inside the home, Josh tells him that while they were out, things went awry and he had to kill everyone.

And he says since he had to kill the girls, it was Stephen's job to kill Jennifer. That way the both of them got their hands dirty. Josh also told Stephen that he had raped Michaela, so he had permission to rape Jennifer if he wanted to. Now other sources say that Stephen decided to rape and kill Jennifer all on his own.

But either way, after hearing this, Stephen turns to Jennifer and lunges at her, pinning her down to the living room floor. Jennifer puts up a fight but she is no match to the large man towering over her. Then, he roughly tugs down both her pants and underwear, then begins to rape her. At this point, Dr. Pettit is bleeding out but remains semi-conscious in the basement

when he hears the sounds of his wife screaming. In his concussion-filled haze, he knows that he needs to get help, and he was able to free his hands, but he couldn't manage to free his ankles. Doing the next best thing, Dr. Pettit gets up on his feet and hops up the cellar stairs. It took a while, but eventually he reaches the top and crashes through the door into the backyard.

Outside, the police are already there setting up their perimeter. Back inside the house, however, while Stephen is raping Jennifer, Josh suddenly enters the room and yells that Dr. Pettit had escaped. The men had no idea that the police were already outside. So right then and there, Stephen began to strangle Jennifer. Josh silently watched as Jennifer begged for her life.

later recalling that her last words were, "Please don't kill me." But after a minute or so, Jennifer died on the living room floor.

While Jennifer Pettit was being raped and strangled, her husband, William, was screaming outside for someone to help him. He managed to hop over to his neighbor's house before collapsing on the ground. They call 911, but the police are already at the scene and have been there for several minutes. And unfortunately, Dr. Pettit's screams for help alerted Josh and Steven, who were now watching him from an upstairs window. Their plan had quickly gone south, and they knew it was only a matter of minutes before the authorities would have the house surrounded.

So, taking action, both Josh and Steven begin to douse Jennifer's dead body in gasoline.

They then head up to the girls' bedrooms, where both Mikaela and Hailey are still tied up and alive. But the fact that the two young girls were alive didn't matter to Josh and Steven, and the two quickly soaked the kids in gasoline as they lied on their beds. Josh and Steven were only worried about getting caught, not the fact that they were about to burn two children alive. They knew that if they burned the house down, that all of their DNA evidence would burn with it.

And to them, that was all that mattered. So right then and there, the men light up some matches and drop them on the floor. Immediately,

Immediately, the room is engulfed in flames, flames that eventually reach Michaela and Haley's rooms. As the fire raged throughout the home, Josh and Steven knew that the gig was up and they took off running out the front door before jumping into the Pettit's SUV. And they were still completely unaware at this time that the house was already surrounded by authorities. The police quickly tried to stop the men from escaping but Josh and Steven ignored them, putting the SUV in drive and attempting to speed off recklessly into the street.

Josh and Steven had no idea that Sergeant Chris Coat and Officer Tom Wright's vehicles were blocking the intersection at Burrage Court and Sorghum Mill Drive. Officer Jeff Sutherland was stationed at the roadblock when Josh and Steven came barreling down the road in their stolen SUV. Josh, who was driving, saw Officer Sutherland and the two cop cruisers blocking his way and pushed the pedal to the metal as he steered the car straight towards Officer Sutherland.

The officer managed to dive out of the way right before Josh crashed the Chrysler into both police vehicles, disabling the getaway car. Police immediately surrounded the wrecked SUV with their guns drawn, but the two refused to get out of the vehicle, forcing officers to physically remove them themselves.

officers quickly discover that their perpetrators are Josh Komarzyewski and Stephen Hayes, who are both out on parole. The men are quickly arrested. It was raining that day, and the fire department was already on its way, but they weren't sure if they would be of any help because police officers couldn't hear anyone screaming from inside of the house. At 10:01 a.m., over 30 minutes after the 911 call was placed at the bank,

the fire department finally arrived. With the attackers in custody and Dr. Pettit on the way to the hospital, the firemen entered the home to find three lifeless bodies and three plastic, partially melted gasoline containers on the first floor hallway and the second floor landing. The crime scene investigators who were later tasked with doing a sweep of the home made a few gruesome discoveries.

Jennifer's body had been burned beyond all recognition in the fire, and there were remnants of charred rope around where her ankles would be. There was also nylon seared to the back of her neck. Upstairs, Michaela was found spread eagle on her bed, with remnants of melted rope embedded on her arms and legs.

And lastly, Haley, the Pettit's oldest daughter, had actually managed to escape her restraints and had been in the process of running down the hallway when she passed out and died from smoke inhalation. Her charred body was found sitting right at the top of the stairs, a short walk from the front door. After investigators photograph the bodies and the crime scene, they are taken to the chief medical examiner where their autopsies are performed.

They determined that Jennifer died from strangulation, while Haley and Mikaela both burned alive and died from smoke inhalation. During the interrogation of Steven and Josh, investigators have gone on the record and claimed that they absolutely reeked of gasoline. The smell had somehow saturated their skin and followed them everywhere they went throughout the station, just like the crimes they had just committed would follow them wherever they would go in the future.

And a male survivor.

Upon arrival at the victim's residence, the first officer observed two male subjects exit private residence and also observed the private residence fully engulfed in flame. The suspect vehicle rammed the Cheshire police officer's car.

and continued on Sorghum Mill Road. Tonight, police removed the body of one of the victims after a home invasion leaves a mother and her two daughters dead. The suspects, 26-year-old Joshua Komizarzewski of Cheshire and 44-year-old Stephen Hayes of Winstead, were caught while trying to escape in the Pettit's car.

Now the only question remains that why did this happen to the Pettit family? Turning now to tonight's top story, a mother and her two daughters are dead. Their father severely injured after a home invasion stunned the town of Cheshire. The suspects apparently set the house on fire as well as some of the victims. Jennifer Pettit, her cause of death has been asphyxiation from strangulation. Her daughters Haley and Michaela died from smoke inhalation.

The news of the murders shocked the town of Cheshire, Connecticut. Like many people say when tragedy strikes, things like that just don't happen in places like Cheshire. And while authorities were still actively investigating the case and the town was still trying to wrap its head around what happened,

Dr. William Pettit sat in a hospital room recovering from not just his injuries, but the fact that he had just lost his entire family. He was released from St. Mary's Hospital that Friday, July 27th, a mere four days after the attacks, so that he could be present at his family's funeral.

The Pennant and Hawk family anticipated a large crowd at the public memorial, so they sought permission from the Central Connecticut State University to use the 1,850-seat Weld Hall on campus for services. As it turned out, this space didn't have enough seats to house the more than 3,000 people who showed up, so a side location with speakers had to be set up in an adjacent room.

The featured speaker that afternoon was, of course, Dr. Pettit, who still had cuts and stitches running across his forehead from the attack, which occurred just days earlier. Well, first of all, thank you for all coming out today to honor the memory of the girls. I really like to say thank you to people from all over the state of Connecticut and all over the country. We've been surrounded with love and cards and flowers and prayer.

from east to west and north to south. I met Jen at Children's Hospital in Pittsburgh for med. She was a new nurse and I was the know-it-all third-year medical student. I was trying to correct Jen on how to take the blood pressure the correct way. Since I had about three minutes of experience at that point, but it became clear pretty quickly that she knew more about pediatrics and how to care for

Dr. Pettit concluded his speech by saying, I guess if there's anything to be gained from the senseless deaths of my beautiful family, it's for us all to go forward with the inclination to live with a faith that embodies action. Help a neighbor, fight for a cause, love your family. I'm really expecting all of you to go out and do some of these things with your family in your own little way to spread the work of these three wonderful women. Thank you.

Jennifer, Haley, and Michaela were later buried in an undisclosed cemetery in Plainville. The exact location is kept private to prevent curiosity seekers from disturbing the peace. Survivors' guilt is very common in cases like this, and Dr. Pettit would definitely experience his fair share of guilt.

According to Jennifer's family in the HBO documentary, Dr. William Pettit had never even seen a fire before that horrific day at his home. After the murders, he told them that he wished he had gone towards the fire to save his family instead of out the basement steps, and that maybe dying with his family would have made him feel like he tried harder to save them.

But Jennifer's family told him that they don't hold any ill will towards him. In the condition he was in at the time, there would have been nothing he could have done to protect them, especially considering the fact he was tied at the ankles with a severe concussion. And although they were devastated about the loss of Jennifer, Hailey, and Michaela, they were happy that he made it out alive.

Jennifer's family was indeed angry, but not with Dr. Pettit, and they weren't just angry with Josh and Steven either. After the investigation progressed and details were made public, Jennifer's family became furious with law enforcement for how they handled the situation. For one, they couldn't believe the fact

that Jennifer had walked into a bank and told the employees that her family was being held hostage just for her to be killed 15 minutes later. Why didn't officers intervene at the bank? Why did it take them five minutes to be notified of a hostage situation involving children? And the most infuriating part of all is that Stephen raped Jennifer, then murdered her, then the guys poured gasoline on

all over the home, set it on fire, and then attempted to escape, all while the officers were sitting outside of the home, setting up a perimeter. And we know this for one because of the timestamps that later came out. But Dr. Pettit also saw police in the woods when he escaped out back. To Jennifer's family, they believed that no one would have died if the police would have intervened right away.

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Joining me on the phone right now is Lieutenant Jay Markella, the public information officer for the Cheshire Police Department. Thank you for joining us. Oh, thank you for having me. Very little detail coming out, though, about exactly what happened. Was it when police showed up that they found the house on fire and caught these suspects? Because they were caught leaving the burning house.

Lieutenant, good morning, sir. Good morning, Dan. First of all, the Cheshire Police Department and their response to this initial call was absolutely outstanding. They did a stellar job. The chief and all those personnel and Cheshire PD deserve a lot of praise and credit.

I just can't say enough good things about how proud I am of the extraordinary effort of our police officers and our firefighters. They're extremely well trained. They're a great group of professionals. And I think today exemplified the finest of what the police and fire are all about in this community. And I can't thank them enough because without their great work, this could have been a far worse tragedy.

When the Hawk family heard that statement, they were shocked to say the least. Three people died, two of which were children, and they were saying that the situation could have been a lot worse?

In the HBO documentary on this case, Jennifer's sister says she felt like they were commending the officers for doing a good job, but she felt like that if they really did a good job, then no one would have died that day. Her family was also outraged because the police were telling the public that they had gotten there after the fire started, but in reality, they had been there long before that. In fact, some officers would later say, off the record, that they could hear Haley and Michaela screaming as they arrived at the house, meaning that they definitely could have intervened.

Jennifer's mother wrote letters to the police telling them that she felt like they cared more about catching the perpetrators than they did about saving her daughter and granddaughters. But all of her letters went unanswered. So, she sent more letters asking why they weren't answering them. One letter read,

"You have received a letter requesting answers to some of our questions regarding this tragic event of our lives. We have received no response and no answers to our questions of why the police were present at their home and did not act to intervene in an effort to save those precious members of our family. We indeed are victims of the silence and we have been very disturbed with the untruthfulness to protect the negligence of action to intervene in this home invasion.

That could have stopped the murders. We are thankful that some action has been taken to change the parole system in Connecticut, but we are hopeful that there will be no plea bargaining for lesser sentencing of these men due to the severity of the acts they have committed. We as a family are being held prisoners by the delay tactics. May the court have mercy on the surviving family members and move with expediency.

The Pettit family murders at the time made national headlines, and short segments about the crime were frequently aired on CBS, NBC, and ABC. On July 26, 2007, Joshua Komar-Sergefsky and Stephen Hayes were officially charged for the murders of Haley Pettit, Michaela Pettit, and Jennifer Hawk Pettit.

And soon enough, the true horror behind what had happened began to sink in for the residents of Cheshire. Everyone was shocked to learn of Josh's lengthy history with burglaries, and they were disturbed with the fact that the Pennant Home invasion was the third house Josh and Steven had robbed that weekend. So, it was no surprise to anyone when Connecticut's judicial district attorney, Michael Dearington, announced that he planned to seek the death penalty for both men.

There's certain criteria that needs to be met in order to seek the death penalty in the state of Connecticut. Criteria which includes: Intentionally causing the death of someone under the age of 16, if there are two or more people victimized, or a death occurred during a sexual assault or a kidnapping.

While the crime itself checked all these boxes, the amount of publicity a case gets before trial can also influence whether or not the death penalty can be pursued. This is because the right to a fair and impartial trial with an unbiased jury becomes increasingly hard to guarantee when a case receives massive amounts of press coverage, which these murders did. The news coverage surrounding this case was so widespread that it was all anyone in Connecticut could talk about. In one

question that a lot of people had, besides whether or not the men deserved the death penalty, was how were these men allowed to do this while they were on parole? Why weren't they being carefully watched?

How were Josh and Stephen able to burglarize multiple homes on the weekend of the murders? There's no obvious flag here. No obvious flag. The new chairman of the board of pardons and parole says that the two suspects in the brutal Cheshire home invasion and triple murder were capable of

of doing what they allegedly did. There's no evidence that we've seen yet that they were recently failed any drug tests. They were both employed. They were both living in what appeared to be stable households.

Stephen Hayes' brothers were wondering the same thing. When they first saw the news, they thought it was just a home invasion, which didn't surprise them at all. But when they found out that Stephen had raped and murdered a family, they were shocked. And like the rest of Cheshire, they were angry that Stephen was even let out of jail in the first place, saying, quote, "...people like him don't belong on the streets, but somehow they let him loose."

Stephen's brothers also say in the HBO documentary that they hope someone puts a bullet in his head outside of the courthouse before he even makes it to trial.

Now, they know that that probably would never happen, so they are 100% for the death penalty of their brother. As for Josh's family, they chose to stay clear of any media regarding their son. Reporters were constantly outside of their home trying to get a statement, but the closest they ever got to giving one was the note they left on their front door that read, "This is an absolute tragedy."

On November 7th, 2007, a gag order was issued making it to where no police, lawyers, or witnesses could speak with the media about this case.

And there were a lot of whispers around town about what the men's fate would be. Many people have strong views on the death penalty. And in Connecticut, a Republican state, many people at the time thought that if anyone deserved to be put to death, it was Josh Komisarzewski and Stephen Hayes.

Jennifer's parents are religious and they didn't believe in the death penalty before the murder of their daughter and granddaughters. But after their murders, they couldn't think of any other punishment that would suffice. The Cheshire prosecutors thought so too. And today, a state prosecutor said he'll seek the death penalty for Kamisarzewski and Hayes.

Today, the state charged the men with six counts each of capital felony murder. Both men would try to plead guilty to their crimes in exchange for life in prison without parole, but the prosecution rejected the offer and continued with their death penalty case. Shortly before the trial, Stephen Hayes decided that he wanted to be put to death.

And luckily for him, his wishes would be answered. On September 19th, 2010, more than three years after the murders, Stephen Hayes would have his trial and be sentenced to death by lethal injection. According to NBC News, Stephen's defense attorney stated, "Hayes smiled upon hearing the jury's recommendation of a death sentence. He is thrilled. That's what he wanted all along." Judge John Blue would end the trial by telling Hayes,

This is a terrible sentence, but is, in truth, a sentence you wrote for yourself in flames. May God have mercy on your soul. Then it was Josh's turn for trial. Both Josh and Steven confessed to the murders, but both culprits claimed that the other was the mastermind or driving force behind the fatal home invasion. But after hearing all of the evidence, most people believed that Josh indeed was the mastermind.

Josh also blamed Dr. Pettit for the killings. In his diary, Josh calls Dr. Pettit a coward and claims that he could have saved his family if he really wanted to, but didn't. Josh's defense also brought forward witnesses that claimed he had been raped by an older sibling when he was a child, but their testimony didn't sway the jury. And on January 27th, 2012, he too was sentenced to death by lethal injection. Josh would later make a statement saying,

I will never find peace within. My life will be a continuation of the hurt I caused. The clock is now ticking and I owe a debt I cannot repay.

But one thing we have yet to mention is that around the time of Josh and Stephen's trial, the state of Connecticut had actually been considering abolishing the death penalty. Dr. Pettit was obviously very against this legislation. Here's his take on the matter. Dr. Pettit is here and as many of you recall, you know, it wasn't that long ago that, you know, you suffered a tragedy losing your wife and your two daughters.

in a home invasion. Talk a little bit, if you will, Dr. Pettit, about the mission, about the mission of the Pettit Family Foundation. It's essentially to help out people with chronic illnesses, which was a nod to Haley, who was accepted at Dartmouth and wanted to major in biology and consider medicine or other careers, and to help people affected by violence in their life, which there's obviously a far...

too much of his evidence by the shootings in Oakland and the shootings in Pittsburgh. There are a few things that make me mad as hell. And one is when I heard that the legislature was even talking about even considering abolishing the death penalty here in Connecticut. And I'm beginning to wonder, do I have anything in common with this state anymore? I mean, what the heck? One of the studies that has been done, and it does get brought up by study, study, study. Well,

this study is actually has some very good statistics, which are most violent criminals who commit the most heinous of crimes don't see the death penalty as a deterrent because their, their sociopathic activities don't take into account consequences. How do you feel about that? Dr. Pettit? Death penalty is clearly a deterrent because the person who's committed the violent crime can no longer commit it again. So that person is removed from society. I think they've forfeited their right to live in a civil civilized society and

the taking of a life the opponents like to say it's a murder by the government but that's a semantic issue because murder is the unlawful taking we have laws set down for certain reasons and certainly the defense attorneys spend lots of time and lots of our money using the law to their benefit and the law says that for certain crimes there's an ultimate penalty and society's believed in that for thousands of years

And that fight will continue. And I know that is one of the things you're going to fight passionately to make sure that those laws stay in place. And no better spokesman than you, Dr. Pettit, for why these laws are here.

And his efforts to keep the death penalty became a huge focus in his life. He even spoke to legislators about his view on the matter. But to his disappointment, the state of Connecticut would go on to abolish the death penalty in April of 2015, meaning both Josh and Stephen, and everyone else who was on death row in Connecticut, would now have their sentences reduced to life in prison without the possibility of probation.

role. It's not the outcome that Dr. Pettit wanted, knowing that these monsters get to live when the rest of his family doesn't. But he turned his frustrations into action, and as of now, he's serving his third term in the Connecticut House of Representatives.

Since the Pettit murders, Connecticut lawmakers have proposed and enacted a new law that redefines home invasions as a violent crime in a three strikes policy that would result in mandatory life sentences if someone is arrested for burglary more than three times. And while there's no way to bring back Haley, Michaela, and Jennifer, their memory lives on through the Pettit Family Foundation, which honors their memory by continuing

the kindness, idealism, and activism that defined their lives. The foundation's funds are given to foster the education of young people, especially women in sciences, to improve the lives of those affected by chronic illness, and to support the efforts to help and protect those affected by violence.

Throughout his years working with this foundation, Dr. Pettit met a woman named Christine, who he would go on to marry and have a child with, a son named William Pettit III. And although he has a new life and a new family, he will never forget his old one. How do you get rid of the guilt, the survivor's guilt that has to go along with something like this? I don't think you do. I don't think you do. I think it's just...

It's packaged up and compartmentalized a little bit. It's sort of like on the top shelf in the closet in a small box and occasionally it comes out and you open the box and you have a terrible night or a terrible couple hours or a terrible weekend or whatever the case may be and then you come to grips and you talk to your wife and you talk to your son and you talk to your family and your friends and you wrap it up again and you put it back in the closet knowing that it's a

probably never going to be gone. Dr. Pettit found purpose in helping others. Friends launched the Pettit Family Foundation after the murders. It was a very difficult time because they made me the president and I basically would be in bed the entire day, get up, come to the meeting and go back to bed. How does it manifest?

I think it's mostly flashbacks and disrupted sleep with loss. People talk about closure, but there is no closure. How do you think about it? Is it a new life? How do you think about your wife, Christine, and your son, little Billy?

You know, it's new, it's additional, it's different because you never forget what you had. It's part of you. People say, "How do you go forward?" I say, "Well, your choice is to stay in bed and do nothing or die or go forward."

Home is where the heart is, or at least that's what they say. I personally think that the most shocking murder cases, the most frightening true crime tales are the ones that happen in homes. Because you see, your home is a place where you and only you make the rules. It's a place where you kick back and relax at night, a place where you sleep, a place where you should, in effect, feel the safest.

But it's these types of stories of home invasions gone horribly wrong that truly scare me the most. Now, sometimes at night, when I hear the sound of rustling bushes outside my window or hear phantom knocks and creaks echoing throughout my house, I grip my pillow a little tighter.

I turn on my bedside lamp for a moment, I become alert, check my surroundings, and make sure that before I lay down to go back to sleep, I know for a fact that I'm alone in my house. But what good does that do anyways? It's stories like these that demonstrate that even though one may be vigilant, may lock every door to their house, and may shut every window, that evil can, and always will, find its way in.

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Hey, everybody. It's Colin here. And Courtney. Thank you again for listening to this week's episode of Murder in America. Courtney, this was such an interesting case, wasn't it? Yeah, I remember you telling me about this case forever ago, and I knew I always wanted to cover it.

And I feel like we did a good job getting every detail. Definitely. And that HBO documentary, if you haven't seen it yet, is one of my favorite true crime shows or pieces of media that's ever been produced. Go check it out. We want to give a shout out to our new patrons this week. They include... Julia Peets. Emma Wellenseek. Luke Sands. Caleb Dowdy. Aurora Loeza. Mindy. Laura. Madison Fisher. Christina Banales. Jennifer King. Sarah Talley.

Ashley Villarreal. And Madison Rafferty. I hope that we say your guys' names correctly when we pronounce these, but we want to thank you all so much for signing up with us on Patreon. If you want to skip those pesky ads in the middle of the show, you can sign up on Patreon where we post these episodes ad-free as soon as they go live on all social media... Streaming platforms, I mean.

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We do. And we have some big cases, big plans, our move to Philly. We got to move out of our apartment in two weeks. So crazy couple of weeks coming up for us. But keep asking that same old question. The dead don't talk. Or do they? See you next week, everybody. Everybody.