S1E08[EN] - 🧙Bitmap.tech: make bitcoin fun again 41:36

Welcome to ABCDE Podcast. I'm your host, Joy. I am Lao Bai. In this podcast, we'll be exploring the latest groundbreaking ideas, cutting-edge technologies, and game-changing development in a decentralized world.

Hi, everyone. Welcome to ABCDU's podcast. This is the new episode in the year of 2024. We're very happy to have the founder of Bitmap Tech on our show. And before we start to talk about the details of the protocols and everything, I just wanted to ask, like, do you guys think 2023 is the year of Bitcoin ordinals?

Yeah, yeah, of course. You know, we have been investing in Bitcoin for like a decade, but there's pretty much nothing you can talk about Bitcoin, right? It's, you know, the price, the ETF. But, you know, we don't have an ecosystem here and we don't have actual users and builders here. But last year we saw the whole revolution of Orinose, which impresses like everyone.

And I think we can call that the Bitcoin year or the Orinose year. And I think that's the chance of a decade for the next 10 years.

Yeah, totally agreed. We saw a crazy hype of BTC NFTs and BRC20 tokens, many new assets coming out. At the very, very beginning, many of us expected the FAT to pass eventually, but it looks like it didn't. And it looks like it started to spread across different chains, even like Ethereum chains. We saw a lot of inscriptions coming up and people are super, super hyped about it. So I would love to know more about Bitmap Tech.

and a little bit about your background and what you are doing right now. Yeah, yeah, of course. So I knew Bitcoin when it's like 12 years ago because like I was doing a Web2 company and my major investor, they invested in Coinbase and Ripple. So they introduced me about Bitcoin, which I love it when I first saw it because I

I'm a computer science guy. And also I'm, you know, very interested in the whole particles and economics. So I knew Bitcoin is going to

rex on things, even though that was very young. But I haven't done anything in Web3 before in the last decade. I'm doing Web2 stuff, Metaverse, game engine games. But last year when I saw Orinose, I knew I have to jump in. So the BmapTag was founded last year. We started our first product in May and then it just doesn't stop. We did Recursiveverse, we did Bmaps, we did

BSC420 and now Merlin. So I actually enjoy this year and I feel like the whole innovation stage and with all these builders, all these users, they do have passion for that. And that's something you cannot see in the whole Ethereum system, in my understanding. So yeah, I'm just glad to be here and build for Bitcoin.

Yeah. Did you like, I think the first time I heard about like ordinals or like BTC NFTs was back in last year, like in April, when a lot of like BAYC holders, they were like talking about this ordinals thing.

new assets on BTC. And it was during that time when I started to see people, they're actually using the Excel to record the transactions back then. It was super, super fun. Is that the time that you think it's a moment to join the space right away? What brought you into the space? Yeah.

I think in April, when we were having a crypto conference in Hong Kong, my friend just DM me about buying this token from Bitcoin. Bitcoin now has their own tokens. And it was in Excel, in Discord, in WeChat, buying already for like $0.06, $0.05. So,

That got my attention. But I didn't buy many already at that time. But I looked into the old notes. Before already, it was JPEGs on chain, all kinds of 3D files on chain. So that makes me wonder, so why is Bitcoin having all these things on chain? But other chains like Ethereum, their NFTs, their game items is actually off chain.

So that got me interested. And then I see the Biosense 20. So the first impression about Bitcoin and all in all is it's pretty fair. I mean, in the world, nothing is like 100% fair, but Biosense 20 is...

I think it's pretty fair for the retail users. All the tokens are diluted, not like Ethereum projects, like 30% ecosystem, 20% VC, and they just give like 1% or 3% to the holders. And then the holders, they realize if we are the key resources to this project, why don't us, you know,

start a new token. So that's the first thing about like fair launching got me interested. The second thing is like I said before, on chain. Making everything on chain and on Bitcoin with high gas fee seems kind of bizarre or crazy, but I just know all this great stuff are coming from the craziness. Like when we first discovered Bitcoin and Ethereum and people don't like

understand its value at first date, but putting everything on chain will actually make something more innovative happen. Just like making all these assets composable. Like making things composable is my

I think my crypto dream because crypto is permissionless so everyone can build anything and I think if others can build on top of your things with no permission that is actually the difference between web 2 and web 3 because in web 2 if you have a big company like a google like microsoft you don't allow others to build on top of you you give them apis and they they use a user service but in crypto if everything is on chain everything is permissionless so

So each team can contribute to build a great stuff or module and others can build more modules around that. So that's where innovation happens in social apps, in gaming apps, but that just doesn't happen before. So all these, you know, on-chain thing and composability give me the belief that Bitcoin and Orinose is so much different than the Ethereum, than BNB chain, than Ethereum.

So I think that's the main reason I joined this revolution and had so much fun. I just wanted to give our audiences a little bit about the backgrounds of like NFT. So like the JPEG for most of the Ethereum NFTs are actually not on chain. So they are stored, the metadata is actually stored in IPFS and it's off chain. The first time I'm hearing about Audinus, especially like BTC NFTs, I

I was quite excited as well, just like you back then. But I think for a lot of people, they may not quite understand the space right now, especially the things that you are building, like Bitmap, BRC420, and also the layer 2 of Bitcoins. Could you please tell us a little bit about the fundamentals in your space? Yeah, yeah. So the whole philosophy for Bitmap Tech

is trying to build something that people have not seen before. So if you issue tokens, if you have DID, social fight, game fight, all these things people have seen that before in Ethereum. And people don't have, you know, the excitement, the imagination for this

old narratives anymore. We want to build something different. So when I was interested, you know, got interested into all the notes, I don't know what to build. You know, I don't want to just, you know, launch a token and, you know, buy and trade this token. I want to actually actually build something. So I saw the recursive protocol at first, you

in June. So I think this is different, like recursive protocol that is like a new idea for everyone. And the philosophy behind that is when you inscribe an inscription and then you can inscribe another inscription by recursing the old ones. So we built the first product that allows users to generate a new JPEG, a new NFT by using the current components.

And it's more like when we have the avatar apps in WeChat, in other games. So basically users are generating art for himself. Not like before. Like before when you buy a Zuki or BOIC, you just buy the stuff that the team gave you. You don't have any freedom to create that. So the whole recursive protocol is the first thing we got interested. And that's something different than before.

And then BIMMAP came out with the, oh, BIMMAP is new too. BIMMAP is like a data pack for each Bitcoin block and it's fully decentralized. Everybody can, can describe it. Like right now you can describe the new BIMMAP.

when the new block came out. So it's fully decentralized and also we want to make this metaverse client agnostic, which means everything we use in this metaverse is front-chain. No matter it's music, avatars, gaming scripts, jpegs, everything we saw from this game, this metaverse, is front-chain. Which means if we stop building this or if we go bankrupt,

another team can build this thing from scratch, like in seconds, because everything is front-chain. And that did happen. So like right now, besides us, besides Big Metal Game, there are a few more teams

teams or you can see competitors, but we don't see them as competitors. So they are actually building the same Explorer like we did because everything we use is front-chain. So that's the BIM map. And then we try to say, okay, should we create a new protocol for all of those? And BRC420 is based on both ideas we have done before. First recursive. So everything you inscribe

on Bitcoin. And then you can use recursive protocol to combine them together. So if I'm building a game, I have gaming assets, I have avatars, I have scripts, I have videos, audios, and I have like 2,000, 3,000 inscriptions. And I can combine them into one inscription as the game client. And then I can tokenize this game client.

as like tokens for like 10,000 copies, 100,000 copies. And when users inscribe or buy these tokens, he is first, he's a user. He can have the content access. Second, he's a holder. He can trade his token

So when a team actually launches this token, the team can disappear. And that happens because everything you build is on chain. So the users can play it. Users can have fun with it. Users can make money on it. And also the users can build on top of you.

So we don't need you anymore. We don't need a team anymore. But in Ethereum, that was different because if the team stopped building, the whole project just goes to zero because we need the teams to build and we don't have their source code, we don't have their server, all that kind of stuff. So Berserker 4.20 is actually using this philosophy. It may sound kind of complicated at first. So that's why we call this a metaverse protocol, but actually it's about modular development plus tokenization.

But this idea users cannot understand. So we call this a metaverse protocol. We do service for BIMBAP first. So the first assets in BXC 420 are avatars, gaming assets.

after like one month and two months, right now, we look at BRC420, it has varieties of different assets. Like Mineral is an asset for computing power to mine Bitcoin. Like all these videos, all these OG paths and like some influencers, they launch their own, you know, their access paths to join their club, like OnlyFans. So there's like limited, like unlimited imagination about BRC420. And everyone can build whatever, you know, they have in mind. The sky is the limit.

So that's the three things we have done before. And I'm just happy because all these three stuff are different, are new. And most things you see in ordinals are still kind of like copycat from Ethereum. So that's something we are very, very proud of.

Got it. That was a bit abstract. That was like super solid, but like maybe a bit abstract when you're talking about you can attach to, you know, different kinds of like music and different kind of medias to BRC420. Do you mind to share your screen and actually showcase one or two, you know, what you call blue box to us? Sure. Okay, is my screen? Yeah. Okay, so let's go to BRC420.

and generic data. So I'll give the simplest example. So first, this one is a very simple avatar. It's a white paper walking around. I mean, it may seem stupid, but it's a gaming avatar. And the inscription here is, you see an avatar here.

But the thing is, it's HTML. So it contains all these game data, like the speed, movement. And this one uses recursive protocol. So this is the original inscription that I used. So you build all these frames as JPEG. And then you use this JPEG to build these game webinars with all this game data. And then you launch this.

gaming assets for 21 copies for $16. So that's the simplest example of Biasi 420. And like this BmapTown, so this one actually contains 611 different assets. So when you buy this DLC, which is downloadable content, when you buy this token, you have the whole access to all this content. So that's what I said before, you combine all these inscriptions into one and then tokenize it.

And the mineral is when you have this token, you can actually get rewards for this computing power to my Bitcoin that company owns. And this song about NFT is a stupid video, you know, that Elon Musk posted before.

So when you look at this page, you see all kinds of different assets and you don't know what they are, but you can click on their website, go to their website to see what they're building. But yeah, I think, does that make sense to you guys? Yeah, yeah. So basically it allows the, I would say developers or users to create composable modules by inscriptions, right? And then deploy it onto the platform that you have.

Yeah, and the platform is like permissionless. So everyone can do that. There's no, you know, we don't have control. We don't like review your stuff. You can just like everyone can like right now, I think somebody is doing a new asset that I don't understand. But if you click on the website, you will know like what that is. Yeah, that makes sense. And that's exciting. Wanted to talk a little bit more about Bluebox.

Because when people are talking about BRC420 and then they refer to your vote box, and then I would say like the total volume. What's the total volume today? I think overall it's like 600 Bitcoin right now.

Okay, great. That's really impressive. Wanted to know what exactly that is and depends on your descriptions and also the previous explanations of BRC420. Is it kind of like the first assets launched through BRC420? Yes. So basically when we do a protocol, we need to have a first asset, like already the first asset for BRC420.

So we don't want to launch anything and sell this thing to others. But we also don't want others to launch the first token on BRC420 because it could be a scam, it could be like anything. So we cannot take that risk. So basically we designed the blue box,

and issue the token for free, which is like 15 cents. So basically free because BSC420 doesn't allow free stuff. So everything needs a price. But like 420 sets is like the lowest price. So we do that and issue the blue box for 10K. The blue box is actually a random thought because

We were actually trying to do audio that, you know, just me, you know, recording myself. This is test for Biosphere 420. But then, like, some people told me that, you know, people don't want to listen to you, Jeff, like saying this, like this, this message, like over and over again, just make something more visible to others.

and something mysterious. So a box, when you see a box, you wonder what's inside of it. People ask, what's inside of it? I don't know. There's nothing inside of it. But this makes people wonder. And of course, we use the color blue because we love the episode for the Zima blue. Yeah, so that's when the blue box was born. But the price just goes very high recently. But to be honest...

We don't know why, but I think users appreciate our job in the whole ecosystem. Right now, there are over 800 projects using Biasi 420 to build their product. And many of them are legit teams with VC-founded, very experienced teams. So they launch games here. They launch apps here. I think we helped them raise $15 million last month.

So they can raise money here, they can get community here. So when more builders and users love your protocol, I think the first asset of that protocol could be like a crazy price.

Yeah, yeah, totally agree. Like I actually saw, you know, the price of the blue box actually shut up the charts and it's just like went up and up. And it's very interesting to see, you know, this hype creating this community. And as people understand this concept and trying to build together, I think that creates, you know, magic.

I really like the idea. But talking about like you want to put everything on chain. And as we know, BTC was not like Bitcoin was not designed for that. It doesn't have a settlement layer. I would love to know about

your opinion of the current layered solutions, say for instance, like OPs, EKPs, RGB Lightning Network, which one do you think is the best solution to the layer 2? Yeah, to be honest, I will be 100% transparent. First, I'm against all solutions that don't have assets and content on Bitcoin Layer 1.

So when you look at RGB or Lightning Network, their assets, their content are actually not on Bitcoin layer one. I mean, they have the hash. So we know this data is real, but they don't do this like Orinose. So you actually make, create and mint assets on Bitcoin layer one. I think that's the most innovative part of Orinose.

So like when people tell me like when you're using RGB, your token issue will be much cheaper, it's gonna be like anonymous, all that kind of stuff. And I say, why don't you launch token on Tron network, on BNB chain? Because it's cheaper, it's anonymous. So why are you using Bitcoin?

So the key point, the key innovation, the key difference about Bitcoin is having all these contents on Bitcoin Layer 1. And I just don't understand why so many people don't understand this. They don't love, they don't appreciate having the content on chain. And I think that makes Bitcoin great. So I'm against RGB and lightning network. And also, they don't have EVM. So the second thing is, I think Bitcoin Layer 2 should be EVM compatible.

Some people may argue, like, why do you have a Ethereum virtual machine for Bitcoin? And I said that like six months ago, I think let's just make Ethereum as testnet for Bitcoin. So everything that Vitalik had, every innovation they have, we use it. We use it for Bitcoin. It's like, it's not patent, right? It's permissionless. So Ethereum can be testnet and all these Ethereum layer tools can be testnet for Bitcoin users.

The reason using EVM compatible solution for Bitcoin layer 2 is because we got to have builders. So if we build like our own like coding, like new virtual machine, it's very hard for us to convince all these Ethereum builders.

And Ethereum builders are not our enemies. They're our friends. Like right now, we have over 10 builders from Ethereum ecosystem. They do have strong conviction to build here. So why don't we provide a more, you know, easier solution for them? Like when you build a DAX on our Merlin chain,

it only takes you like one day or two days, you know, to make that product happen on Bitcoin Layer 2 for Bitcoin users. So I think ZKRollup is going to be great for all these Bitcoin Layer 2s. I mean, it will take some time. To be honest, I don't think the ZKRollup will happen in just like...

like one second because the Bitcoin layer one doesn't do settlement. We need a deal layer. We need, you know, all this DKP proof to be approved by Bitcoin layer one. So this whole structure needs more time. We have that in our roadmap, but I do think doing ZK rollups,

having EVM compatible chains is more important. And also, I don't want to be rude, but I think RGB and Lightning Network, they have proven themselves in the past years. They don't have user base. They don't have the innovation that can bring users here. And why we are talking about Bitcoin today is because of Orinix. So we want to still go beyond

deeper in that path to bring more innovation, to bring more builders and to actually build around Orinons, Bitcoin and their tools. It looks like this time is different. Making Bitcoin fun again.

So story in short, Jeff, you think the asset needs to be launched or issued on layer one because that's the most valuable part of the asset. You can't launch the asset on a very fast or cheap solutions like Lightning Network or RGB. It should be on layer one of Bitcoins. And then you build some mature EVM compatible layer twos for them to have a better trading or whatever utility experience, isn't it?

Yeah, and I have some reason for that. First, like we'll see all these inscriptions on other chain like Avalanche, on Say, on Polygon. You do see them like right now their price is going like very down and they don't have community like their users just don't love this. So I think higher price actually makes this whole mechanism works better.

And the second thing is, if you're doing a token launch off-chain, like an off-chain client, like Lightning Network or RGB, what's the difference between that and Tron Network? I don't really think... I think Tron Network is very safe and it's very cheap. So why don't you launch tokens there? And also for whole Bitcoin Layer 2s, like right now we have like 20 Bitcoin Layer 2s, right? And I don't want any Bitcoin Layer 2 to launch tokens on Layer 2 because...

It's still going to be the same like, you know, a Tron Network, BNB chain, Polygon. So we want everything inscribed on layer one. And layer two is just provide liquidity, provide, you know, more smart contract innovation like staking and lending and swapping. So I think that's more, you know, different people playing different roles. We don't lose the spirit. We don't lose the whole innovation from Bitcoin layer one. Makes sense. Makes sense.

Speaking of the price drop of the other inscriptions on the smart contract, it's not only on those smart contract platforms like Solana, Cosmos, Celestia, whatever. Even the mainstream inscription like a BRC20, all these sets or atomic laws like ARC20, all their price was dumping in the last 30 days. And there's only one exception, which is BRC20.

The mainstream of the BRC420 is like Blue Box, Minerals, and another one or two. The price just not dropped. It's increased a little bit, actually. So what is the actual magic behind it, which is quite impressive?

Yeah, they have actually increased a lot today. But so they're not dropping yet. I mean, I'm very happy for that. And I think I don't know that like the real answer or the truth, but you know, I can provide some ideas in my mind. I think first, we have too many meme tokens. I mean, I love meme tokens. Everyone loves meme tokens. But if we have like thousand meme tokens in one space,

you just don't have that many users and community. Like right now in Bitcoin, I guess like half a million active users monthly. I guess like that's a rough number. So with this kind of amount of users, you cannot have like a thousand meme tokens, right? Because every meme has a story. It's hard for everyone to remember all the stories. Like what's rats? What's mice? What's dragon? What's cats? Like...

People get tired of it. And the reason the BRC420 gets so much higher like two months ago, three months ago, because it's new, it's innovative. The whole users in the crypto space, they love new stuff. And BRC420 actually makes this a new idea to all these holders and to the new users. So when you see this, like this song about NFTs, it's a video.

it doesn't make sense, but the price just goes up. So it goes higher, you'll think, oh, that just doesn't make sense. But then it just goes higher and higher. And you say, am I the wrong ones? Does it make sense? And when it goes much higher, you will find reasons. So when you see new things, like when you see the blue box, it's so mysterious and you think that's trash. But when you get from $30 to $300 to $3,000 to $30K,

you will change your mind. So I think the new things make people wonder and make people want to learn more about it. So when you say BRC420 right now to these holders, to these users, they just think you're boring. But when you're talking about 420, people say, okay, I might want to learn about it. So I think that's the first reason. And the second thing is because BRC420, major assets are backed, are supported by one specific team.

So like, I know we talked about fair launching and we talked about, you know, meme tokens are great, but in the future, like the longer journey, specific assets should be supported by a team, at least by like, you know, something tangible, like a protocol or like a product.

So when users know about that and that community is going to last longer because like the team, the mod, the community, they do have like ideology, a faith or something they believe like building like minerals to mine more computing powers, to mine more Bitcoin. So they do have a faith. So they will like, they will spread that faith, that idea to more people. So I think that's the two reasons that, you know, BRS420 is still going up.

First, it's new. Second, it's somehow supported by a product or by a specific team. And I don't know how long that will last, but I'm just glad people find more innovation here. Like a month ago, we don't know you can build like this for Biosphere 4.20. But for Biosphere 4.20, for ARC 4.20,

I love them, but I consider them as a ticker protocol. What's a ticker protocol? Basically, you pick a ticker and then you just launch this ticker and people buy this ticker. So you cannot do much about that. I agree. I agree. I still remember the first time I was speaking to you, that's like a few months ago. I remember the day you mentioned about BRC420 and your website. I opened it, I saw the blue box, $530.

And I was like, "Wow, that's not cheap." And then two months later, I was saying like, "$25,000, really?" Yeah. Something new is always very impressive and the prices keep pumping. And recently you've also launched the other solution, Merlin.

So I want to know what exactly the unique selling point of your Layer 2 solution is, because we've got like 30 plus Bitcoin Layer 2s and a majority of them are EVM compatibles. So I wondered what's the unique part of Merlin? And also I've heard some theory about Bitcoin Layer 2s and people are talking about

technology is not the most important part and it may not be important at this stage at all because everyone's doing the evm things is purely fungible for everyone so who controls the sf protocols on their ones and who got a bigger communities may actually win this layer two wars uh do you agree on this part uh i think our i i partially agree on that part uh because

Like you said, so all these teams, they're using EVM compatible solution. So this is not a new thing. So you cannot find too much innovation there. But I do agree, safety is important. So no matter you're using a roll-up, you're building a side chain, your bridge is controlled by how many different parties. So I mean, that part is very important. That part is like baseline for a successful layer two, because if you cannot protect

users assets, you're going to fail. But when you're talking about layer twos, I think everyone is thinking about ecosystem, right? Because if you want to sell already, you just sell already on Binance or on OKEx. If you want to buy stuff, you can just buy that from Unisat or OKEx or Marketplace.

So we don't need a layer two to trade specifically. We need a layer two to have more DApps, to have more innovation, to get stuff cheaper and to sell them higher. So how can we do that? So I think

Like Merlin, we want to build a layer two based on the native assets and users because these users are the most valuable assets in this community because they understand how Bitcoin works. Like when we're having some space with other teams who have come here like a month ago, they don't even understand the difference between BRC20 and ARC20 and BRC420.

They just think, okay, it's fair launch meme token protocol, right? So we have these users and we have these native builders. They can actually have innovation on there too. Like right now, first we have a launchpad called People's Launchpad. Why do we call this People's Launchpad? Because every token is fully diluted

Fair launched every token is a BRC20 or ARC20 and the launch price is under 100K valuation. So basically that's like the cheapest token, like a pink sheet token you can get and everyone can participate, can enjoy this journey launching a cheaper token with more holders. And also we're building a user engagement fair launching mechanism.

So the 100% of token will be fair launched by users engaging in their apps, playing their games, experiencing their DApps. Every time you play that game, you get a token. It's not about airdropping because airdropping is like, you know, giving 1% of tokens to the users. This is about like 100% fair launching. So on first day, you launch your tokens, you have your revenue and you have a community which most users are very familiar with your products.

our deep users love your product. So these are just two examples. So we want to bring that innovation here

How can we do that? So we need native users, we need native builders, and we have the experience because we have been building here for over seven months. And also we want to bring this nativeness into Layer 2s by using Bitcoin wallets on Layer 2 right now. I think right now we are the only Layer 2 who can use Unisat or OKEx wallet on Layer 2, but not using MetaMask. I don't have a MetaMask.

And I do think most people in Bitcoin ecosystem, they don't want to use MetaMask. Like I know, like in my community, in our community that, you know, many users, they haven't used MetaMask before. They just joined this space because of all in alls.

First wallet they use is Unisat. So we want to bring this nativeness into this ecosystem. We want to bring the native users here, builders here, and to build something, you know, like still continuing using the innovation of Bitcoin, of All-in-All, and trying to do something different here.

So, yeah. So I think, and we do see some competitors and I'm just confused if you're using MetaMask on your layer two, if your governor's token is not even Bitcoin standard, I mean, some layer twos, their governor's token is ERC20 and your users are not Bitcoin users. And the assets you stake is USDT and Ethereum.

Why are you a Bitcoin layer 2? You are just a Ethereum layer 2, right? Agree. Yeah, I do like that point. I completely agree. I personally have two profiles on my Chrome. One profile has MetaMask installed, Fantom, Kepler for Cosmos, Solana and Ethereum. And the other profile is purely just Bitcoin with Exaverse, Unisats.

and Atomical Wallet, etc. So when I play a Bitcoin Layer 2, I definitely do not want to switch to that Ethereum Metamask or Phantom profile. I want to stay with my Bitcoin profile with all those Bitcoin wallets installed. It would be feeling weird and a mixture that why I have to use Metamask. Yeah, I agree on that part, definitely.

All right, a lot of things. Jeff, can you give us a brief picture of the future of Bitcoin ecosystems that in your mind, in your eyes, what may Bitcoin ecosystem look like in the next one or two years?

Yeah, that's a great question because everyone is thinking about that. And I think I disagree with most people because most people think Orlinos is dead right now because of the price thing. And the first time people are saying about Orlinos is dead is like in last July or August. I actually inscribed an inscription called Orlinos is dead. First is first. My inscription was first.

So people think, okay, the hype is over. The users are going to come back to Ethereum. I still think Odinose is very early. So like right now, if you look at all these BRC tokens, like 20, 420, whatever, their whole valuation is about like 4 billion. And the Bitcoin valuation is 800 billion.

So it's like 0.5% of Bitcoin valuation. But if you look at Ethereum, the whole ERC20 token's valuation equals Ethereum token valuation. So if you look at Bitcoin or all in all as a person, it was actually a six month old baby. So you cannot predict his future when he's six months old, like is he going to be a scientist?

a businessman or or or waitress you don't know right so it's still very early so we want to protect this baby you know from bad things we don't want like like

I know some projects are trying to come here to make more money from the users, but I think that's wrong because if he's like 30 or 40 years old, yeah, I do think he's healthy, he's strong, we can defend all kinds of crisis, all these risks, but he's still like six months old. So we want to protect this. We want to see him grow gradually with all these loyal users, all these builders in the ecosystems.

So one thing I can predict is it's still early. It's not even the beginning of the end. It's the beginning of everything. So when you see this early stage ecosystem, I think we just need to let people know more about All-in-Us. We just need to build innovations like something people haven't seen before. Like we build recursive versus BIMAP and Bias 420. We need more of the examples.

and to grow this baby, you know, from four baby variation to 40 to 400. I do think this will happen in the next one year or two year or five years. I do think that will happen. So let's just be patient. Let's try to be native. Like I know, you know,

I don't want to call us OGs, you know, we've been here for a couple of months. And, you know, when others come here, they will be staying here building, you know, for a year or two like us. But all these new projects, all these new teams, I want them to embrace the spirit of Orinus and protect this baby and build actual stuff with actual users. And I do think if we do that, we will see Bitcoin great again and also fun again.

I see, I see. If I translate that into a more understandable language, it's just "buy Audi, buy Sets, buy Blue Box", isn't it? Yeah, it's still early. It's very early. It's very early. Great. Let's narrow down a bit in terms of this year's goal. So what's the goal this year for Bitmap Tech? And focus on Layer 2.

Yeah, I think layer 2 is going to be very important because basically every innovation we can think of right now is going to be built on layer 2. Because on layer 1, to be honest, there's not much things you can do anymore. It's going to be very, very hard. So yeah, I think building a safe layer 2, getting more users who hold Bitcoin, BX20, 420, Atomicos, all these native users on layer 2,

We want to get more people here, more transactions here, more volume here. But even we are not number one TVL in the whole layer 2, comparing to Polygon or Arbitron, we're going to be very happy if all these native users are in our ecosystem and build with us and have fun with us.

And the second thing is I think BSC420 and BIMAP, they're still very early. They're early, early. So we won't have more builders here. We actually probably will separate our teams into four different groups. And the independent teams, they will grow BSC420, BIMAP, Recursiverse with their own team members. Like BSC420, right now,

I can imagine a game engine or a DApp engine building modules using 420 attributes and can have more builders to build the app easier, much easier than before and launch their assets much easier than before. So there are lots of things we can do and we won't have all these builders. We're going to have our hackathon in February and to have more builders come here to understand Bitcoin and to make Bitcoin fun again.

this is great um native secure and creative yeah those are the three words that i conclude yeah um good to talk to you and hopefully this is going to be a fruitful year 2024 looking forward to it and happy to you know start the journey with uh bitmap tech yeah thank you very much i think this year is gonna be great yeah thank you next time