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Welcome to Smart List. Smart.
Smart. Hi, JB. Hi, JB. Sean, I mean... Hey, wait, let me just say this. Let me just say this. JB, it's 9.30...
It's morning where you are. Sean and I are in the East Coast. Yeah. So what time are you up today to get prepared for your day? I got up at 7 today. You get up early every day. I do. Well, 7's not early. No, it's usually 6 or 6.30. Today was a little bit later. I'm still battling. I'm long hauling something. It's not...
COVID. It's some sort of a head cold kind of sinus thing, little coffee, little sniffly. Like I beat it and then 48 hours later it came back. What is that? Well, you're not the first person in your house to beat it. Let's be honest. Yeah, yeah. The first owner. I love that song over here. That's true. Wait, but it's not COVID, you're not sick? No.
I mean, I'm sick, but I haven't tested, but maybe I should. You know, it's so weird. I just got back. I go do physical therapy and a friend of mine at that office, he was trying to get a tick out of his daughter's arm and he squeezed the tick and it busted open and squirted in his eye and he got COVID from it.
I swear to God, that's a true story. He literally just told me like an hour ago. Hang on. Wait a sec. So ticks carry COVID now too right next to their briefcase full of Lyme's disease? No, I don't know. He said he got home. Nobody wanted to deal with the tick on his doorstep.
So he squeezed it and it squirted in his eye. Well, maybe he got COVID from his COVID-infested daughter instead of the tick. The tick can't carry two briefcases full of virus. This sounds like a pretty elaborate way to make an excuse for something that he's obviously leading like a double life. And so what he did was... Yeah, exactly. He's like, yeah, I squeezed the tick and then the tick got in my eye, honey. Anyway, that's why I didn't come home last night. He's dating a woman that's a long hauler.
The tick squirted in his eye. By the way, it should be noted also that JB-- that Amanda-- you can't tell Amanda that story. She's so tick nervous.
Every time we talk about the East Coast, we talk about going to see friends. She gets very ticked off. She talks about going to visit friends in Martha's Vineyard or coming to see us out here, and she's all about the ticks. You guys talk amongst yourselves. I need water. Okay. He just gets up and goes, I know. Oh, he's coughing up a storm out there. He really is. Well, we're getting all of this. This is good. If you're a doctor and you're out there,
Please just listen back. Will, here's the thing. Yeah. Boy, you know, you go 8 million miles an hour, kind of like I do a little bit, and you never get sick. I never see you sick. I saw you sick last year maybe once. Yeah, I'm pretty good about it. I mean, I don't want to tempt fate, but I am pretty good about staying. Although, Jason, you never really get sick either. Jason never gets sick either. Ever. No, I really don't. I don't.
But, you know, I'm fired up. Guys, I'm excited to be smart-listing today. -Are you? -Are you guys ready to smart-list? -That's so gross. -I'm introducing it as a verb. Are you getting your smart-list on? I'm trying. I'm trying to fire up. I'm trying to fire up here, you know? Yeah. Hey, I'm glad that you're really excited to be here today and to be smart-listing. And you mentioned because we have a guest. Because we don't just have a guest, we have an incredible guest today. -Really? -Really?
Yeah, well, because... Can we vote on that after the guest is revealed? Sure, sure. But you know who has voted on this guest? Oh, America. America. The world. The Academy Awards has nominated this person three times and she's won for Best Actress. You just stood up. I stood up all straight. Nominated two other times. I mean, she's won Golden Globes.
So she's won for three. She's won... I mean, she's won everything. She's won every possible award, been nominated multiple times for the... Do you like the Golden Globes or the, you know, theater awards or Tony Awards or... The theater awards? Is that what they're called? But Academy Award, winning Academy Award. Once I start listing her credits, you're going to go, oh, yeah, I know exactly what this is because...
These are movies that you like. They're movies like Zero Dark Thirty or The Eyes of Tammy Faye or... This is Jessica Chastain. This is Jessica Chastain. Are you joking me? Wait a minute. Yes. Yes.
Do I take it off now? There she is. Wait a minute. What? This is insane. This is crazy. I just saw you yesterday. I know. It's insane. Congratulations, darling. Thank you, honey. I was really rooting for you. I know you don't want to talk about it, Sean, but it's a big deal. Congratulations. It's a big, big deal. I mean, how amazing to be on that journey with you the whole time. No.
It was so great. We had one event where we were just mouthing words to each other the whole time to try to save our voices. And then I left. And then you left, really. So, listener, we're taping this at a time that is just after Sean's win at the Tony Awards. So we're trying not to talk about that because this is delayed. Oh, I get it. Okay, we're not allowed to talk about it. Yeah, but since you guys are both, they're in the midst of it right now. It just ended, listener. So we apologize for being a little bit...
But we can still talk about the experience because it was weird. Not the experience of that, but the theater experience. For people who are listening, Jessica's theater was literally right next to mine. So every single day I got shut off. I'm like, there's Jessica Chastain starring in A Doll's House and there's Sondre starring. It was really, really cool. Did you ever hear each other show while you're performing? No, but the line to get in was always, it was like, you don't know if people were in line for your show or my show because always. Yeah.
Mixed up. Yeah, it was really cool. And people waiting outside afterwards. So my stage door was on 45th Street, which is the back of the theater. And your stage door was on 44th. So my car was on the other side. And so every time I would leave, I would see all of the people waiting outside for you. It was very sweet. Oh, that's crazy. It's fun, right? Kind of you guys are like in this, your own little sort of in that world and feeling like you're really part of a community and kind of,
in the trenches together in a way. Yeah, and also, yeah, right? It was also nice to just have a comrade to go through it with, right? Now, do you guys have free tickets to each other's show? Or do you have to pay for those? Well, the thing is, we can't see each other's show because we're performing at the same time. But now I closed. You guys have the same days off? You closed. We had Mondays off. I closed. And so now, I mean, I'm after a week in Tahiti. She'll be there tonight, Sean.
I'm going to come see everything. A Week in Tahiti, that sounds so good. I need a complete reversal of location. That's about the opposite. Although that does sound like a play as well, A Week in Tahiti. It's a one act. Jessica's returned to Broadway. Maybe that should just be the title of my autobiography, A Week in Tahiti. Have you been there before, to Tahiti?
I have, but a friend of mine invited me during COVID, and he had a boat there. So I basically was just in the water of Tahiti, but we didn't go there. You're going to strike land this time. I am. I'm very excited. Are you exhausted from doing HOs? Oh, my God. I don't know if you can tell. My voice is like, I'm done. I've been taking all these immunity medicines and stuff because I just feel like any second my body's going to go, all right.
Now's the time. I'm going to kick your ass. Well, let me ask you, I'm going to ask you that because we've been going through this with Sean. I feel like we're all on this journey with Sean, Jason and I. But Jessica, tell me if you have the, and this actually goes to both of you guys. You know that what you're going to, about to embark on when you're going to do a play on Broadway is going to be
really demanding in a lot of different ways, but especially physically. And so you prep yourself, I imagine, like you get yourself up. You're like, okay, here we go. We're going to do this. I'm going to be fine. And then what is the point when you start doing it? You go like, oh my God, this is way worse than I thought it was. Is it a week? Is it two weeks? Is it a month?
- Oh gosh. I mean, after the first week of previews for me, at one point I went to the director and I said, "I don't think this is sustainable." "I don't understand this level of motion. "I don't think it's sustainable." And he's like, "No, you can do it." That was just his response to every time. I was like, "Are you sure? "You can do it." - How long did you do your show?
- We, oh God, we did 137 performances. - Wow. - But my show also, it was pretty emotional. There was heavy crying for like an hour each show. So it was, it definitely is not something, we're gonna do it again somewhere, I'll have another life next year.
but in very short, much shorter runs because otherwise I'll lose my mind. - Can you flick the switch on crying pretty easy or is it a big process for you? Some people it's easy. - No, I'm like, you know, the kids when they do, I always think about this with my kids is when I see them playing, they absolutely believe what they're doing. They're so in it when they're like, at school they call it dramatic play.
And I kind of feel like that's just what happens is I'm in the scene and then I just believe it's happening. Right, and the tears come. Sometimes if the mood is right, Scotty and I call it role playing instead of dramatic. Oh, that's definitely for a different show. And then you believe it's happening, Sean. You believe it. I do. I didn't order this pizza. Well, what do you mean? Are you not hungry?
I didn't say you could just come into my apartment, but you're here now. This is a meat lover's pizza. I'm confused. I love meat. Do you find that, like, you spend all this emotion, like, you're on stage, you're bawling for an hour, and then you get home into your life and stuff happens and you've got no emotion left for anything else? Like...
- No, in fact, I'm like the opposite, which probably my poor family and friends have been so sweet with me. I just become so kind of raw that I'm a little bit like a baby where things that shouldn't make me emotional make me emotional. And it's just, I start to feel like I'm losing my mind.
Which is why now I'm looking forward to another "Zero Dark Thirty" playing a character who really doesn't, am I allowed to cuss on this? I mean, I've heard before. - Oh, fuck yeah. - A woman who doesn't give a shit, just is like, she's just walking through. I need to play that next. - I love that you asked if you could cuss. You're the first nice respectful guest we've had.
Was it always part of your life growing up too? As a kid, were you in high school? It was. My grandma took me to see a play when I was seven. I didn't have the easiest of childhoods in some sense because I was raised by a single mom and she really struggled a lot financially and
and I was kind of an angry kid a lot. And so my grandma took me to this show at the Music Circus Theater in Sacramento, California. It was Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. - Awesome. - Sure. - And there was a, and she told me she, 'cause it was a big deal, it was a professional show, she kept saying that they were, this was their job, these actors. And then it started and there was a little girl on stage and I was like, oh.
This is what I am. It wasn't a sense of like, this is what I want to be. I was like, oh, this is what I'm going to do. And then I just spent like, my poor mom was like, can you bring me to LA to audition for commercials? Like from that moment on. Wait, how old were you when grandma took you to that? Seven. Yeah, because I saw a chorus line when I was 10 and I always wish I'd seen it earlier. Like when I was like, I don't know, five, six, seven, eight, nine.
Oh, my God. Wonderful. Wow. I had a recycle bag. He can set himself up and hit it all in the same one. He did. That was really good. I'm so happy about that. He's like on a one-man volleyball team. He lobs it, and then he spikes it himself. But I do want to say, you know what's interesting? It occurs to me how many kids their first introduction to theater is Joseph in the Technicolor coat. I know, right? Totally, yeah. That's like the sort of the gateway. That's one of them, yeah. One of the...
Because it's safe for high schools to do and it's safe for kids to do. Yeah, and a lot of kids go and see with their family or they'll go see with their school or like in... My question is, do we need to update...
What that is. Yeah. I don't even remember what happens in the show. That's the sad thing. I think that's the one and only time I ever saw it. You know what? It was the first play I think I saw. Oh, really? Is the reason I brought it up. I saw it in black and white, though. Oh, no. What was the one with the roller skating? Starlight Express? Yes. Remember that one way back when? Yeah, I think that was my first one. Was it really? Yeah.
Then there were some cats. Roller skating, yeah. Little cats. And a lot of siblings, Jess, in your family? Or just you? Yeah, two boys and two girls. Oh, wow. And anybody else? I was the oldest. You're one of five. Yeah, one of five. Wow. And your youngest?
My youngest brother is 24. Oh, so are you in the middle? I'm the oldest. No, she's oldest. Oh, you're the oldest. Sorry, sorry. Yeah. Now, so then the acting, was it something that came because you started so early? Was it something that came very naturally to you or did you start training early on? It's something because I went to public schools. I just remember like they...
they would assign the plays in schools to the people who got really good grades and I didn't get good grades. So it was always like the person on the side or holding the tree or whatever. And then we got to middle school. Holding the tree. Not even the tree, just holding the tree. I know, just like holding it up. And then we got to middle school and it was the first time we started like, you know, having a class, the elective where you could choose what class you wanted. And I chose the drama class because
And then, you know, that's when I really started doing stuff. I actually won a monologue competition. And I have a little trophy for it. And I actually had, it's like that to me is one of the most
is the sweetest things in my house because I think I was like 12 or 13 and it was a big deal. It was the first time I was like, wow, I actually, people think I'm good at this. Yeah, I'm good. Right. Yeah. You know what's interesting though? So you grew up in Sacramento, not exactly like a hotbed for theater, right? But you go, you see that play, like how do you make that leap from being a little girl in Sacramento who sees a play and is super into it saying, that's me, to being,
I don't want to jump all the way to becoming an Academy Award winning actress, but like, what's that first move you're like, in Sacramento, like, I got to go from here to...
- What? - Yeah. - Well, I mean, I was going, I had no idea 'cause I don't know anyone in the industry. And again, you know, it was kind of a, it was a tough situation, you know, at home and I was doing a lot of community theater and working at Sac City College doing like their Shakespeare. I think I did "Taming of the Shrew" and all of this stuff. And then I actually dropped out of high school, which is crazy. I dropped out of high school. I had to take PE twice.
And I think I didn't graduate because I missed, because I failed PE twice. Oh, wow. Because I had no interest in like doing pull-ups. And like, I just had like, no. And I was reading, you know, Shakespeare in cutting class. I was such a nerd. Wow. I'm probably, yeah, I can't even understand it. But I dropped out and then I started working and I did some regional theater. I played Juliette.
at Theater Works in Silicon Valley. And then the guy who was playing Romeo got into Juilliard. And I was like,
I don't think he's that much better than me. So maybe I could go. And so... And did you? I did. Oh, wow, great. That's amazing. It changed my life. Wait, going back to high school, I remember in my high school there was a thing called, like the debate team called, it was called forensics. I did that. Of course you did. Because everybody I knew in high school did it. I didn't do it. And it freaked me out because people were... What is it, Sean?
It's like when you are in a debate team and they teach you how to debate, like improv debate, right? Right, right. No, they don't. Yes, they do. And it freaked me out. It was my first experience watching kids my age face a wall and talk to the wall because they would be rehearsing. Yeah. I was like, are they crazy? An audition lobby. It was like a mental institution. Yeah.
And also different voices because you play different characters and they narrate. Yeah, it was wild. How funny, by the way, for the listener, how funny, and you guys can attest to this, are, and weird, Jason just said audition lobbies. Remember going into a casting office and everybody's holding their sides and people find a little corner or they're sitting on the edge of a chair and they're just going, I don't know what.
Going over their face, going over their beats, going over what they're doing. Practicing their faces. Yeah, their faces, their thing that they, like their little angle, their little beat that they've got on the thing that they're going to do. And then you get older and you do it like the four of us as a profession and then you find yourself doing it and you're like, oh, now it's not so weird because I'm doing it. I don't know. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And we will be right back. And now back to the show.
So, Jessica, so you were all in. So you go to Juilliard. There was no other sort of like... You didn't go to like a college where you had, well, I'll major in drama, but I'll minor in business or something like that. But, JB, I'll interrupt to say also, not just that, Jessica, you got... Didn't you get the Robin Williams scholarship at Juilliard as well? Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah, so that was actually a huge deal financially for us because he went to Juilliard and he was...
from everyone that talks about him, such a generous human being. And he gave the scholarship every two years, and it basically paid for everything. It didn't just pay for tuition. It paid for my apartment. It paid for me to fly back and forth to go see my family at Christmas. It paid for food. It was a ginormous... He was...
He was an incredibly generous guy. Did you guys know Robin a little bit? I met him once. I only shook his hand once, yeah. He was such a—I had the pleasure of spending a little bit of time with him over the years a few times, and he was an incredibly generous, sweet, sweet guy. I mean, anytime you check in with anybody who knows him. So it doesn't surprise me that he did—I mean, that's so thoughtful. And as a young person and going to do this thing and going to New York—
those kinds of expenses are just tough to cover. Yeah, for anybody. Yeah. And to have somebody do that. So then you get to go to Juilliard. And then how do they assign that scholarship? Obviously, those that need the economic assistance are the candidates. But I imagine that there's some sort of a... Is there like an act-off to see who gets it? Like a sporting event? Yeah. Or like gladiators? Yeah. Was there any sort of...
I've been acting off since I was like 12. I don't think so. I mean, the first two years, it was a lot of, you know, loans, you know, like those Sally Mae loans. I was just, I had borrowed so much money to try to sustain it. I was in the dorm. And then the scholarship went to your final two years. Gotcha. And I think it just was based on the work you had done.
your first two years. So I played, I don't know, I played Arkadna and the Seagull as my final project my second year and it went over well with the teachers and maybe that might have had something to do with it. I don't know, but it was a big deal. So I'm sorry, I may have missed this, I apologize. You're one of five kids. Yeah.
And was it a single mom or? Single mom. Yeah. Exact same situation. No. Yeah, five kids, single mom. So then blood and fairness. Did your mom have two eyes, Jessica? Because this is where it's not oranges to oranges. We'll allow it. Please answer the question if your mom had two eyes.
Were you the eldest in your family, Sean? Youngest. Youngest. Youngest. Yeah, she had to keep an eye on five. Guys, I got a lot. It's been a year and a half. Wait, JB, did you get that text I sent you about what my sister posted? Yeah. Did you get the one-eyed crying emoji? Yeah.
Well, Jessica, my mom had... You go, Will. Sean's mom had one eye her whole life. And we've talked about it extensively on the program. But when Sean won the Tony his sister put on Facebook, my mom, she'd be so happy, she'd be crying her eye out. Oh, my God.
You know, you either laugh or cry, Jessica. Yeah. It's really good. So that's interesting, though. So you guys do have very sort of similar experiences. Yeah. In that way. And then you both end up in the theater. Yeah. That's wild. Why didn't you go to Juilliard? Jesus. What's the matter with you? What's wrong with you? Because I can't spell it. Oh.
G-U. What's that feeling like when you come out? So you go to Juilliard, which is, you know, arguably like the most, you know, sort of acclaimed, certainly in America, theater school. You come out of there, art school, you come out of there, and is the feeling like, all right, I'm just ready to go and everything's just going to
Offers are going to fly at me. Like I always wonder what that experience is like coming out of an acting school in that way. Well, I was very lucky. I got a deal. So my class was the first one to do a L.A. showcase. And actually I brought it to the administration because I had come to Los Angeles the summer before the fourth year and found out that other schools were doing it. And then I really, really pushed for it.
And we got it. So by coming out here and doing the showcase, I got from that, I got a deal with John Wells. And so it was very helpful. It was like right out of the bat. I had someone kind of in my corner and then I could...
you know, do plays in New York. Like I worked at Playwrights Horizon and I'd fly back and forth to Los Angeles to audition for his shows and whatnot. But I made that money last for like four years. That's amazing because I think, Will, like what you...
What you were kind of saying is like, and to me too, growing up, you think Juilliard is the pinnacle of all, is the best of the best. And you just, like me, just assumes every single person that graduates from Juilliard, whether it's music or art or theater or, you know, whatever, gets a job, you know? And it's like, so it's wild to...
Yeah, like graduation day, they're like, all right, here are the parts that we're going to be handing out today. You're doing this thing for Paramount. You're going to be shooting it. So, Jessica, I mean, like, is it...
You seem like you're still very aware of your upbringings and your journey and that you're fully appreciative of where you are. Thank God it doesn't seem like it's lost on you that your whole life you have seen this path, you've wanted this path, you've trained for it, you've respected what it's going to take to get there, you've done everything that you should. Yeah.
And you've done it. I mean, you've got an Oscar. You're like one of the most respected actors in the world. Like, that's got to feel fantastic. And I don't want to embarrass you. And I don't expect you to sort of say, yeah, yeah, it's awesome. But how about like, is your mom still with us? Are your siblings? And my grandma. I took my grandma to the Tonys the other night. No way. That's awesome. Yeah, the sweltering Tonys.
She's like, when's Joseph coming out? Do they help you take your very, very deserving smell of the roses every once in a while? Oh, yes, completely. But also, too...
I think 'cause it doesn't feel that far away and you know, a lot of my life was a little bit of like, okay, I know what I'm going to do. I don't know how I'm gonna get there exactly, but I'm very aware of the people who've shown me a lot of kindness. And actually, Jason, I don't even think you remember
Uh-oh. You took me. I'm sorry. Let me just start with I'm sorry. No, no. I'm going to talk about how kind you were. I have addiction issues, Jessie. No. No, no, no, no. Jason, don't admit too much yet. Okay, sorry, sorry. Until you know the charges. My boyfriend was... Ned Benson. Ned Benson. So you do remember. You took me to a Dodgers game with Ned. Yes. It was the first time. I was like sitting there and I was like...
I mean, I was so close to the players, and I'd never experienced anything like that before. When was this? And you were so kind. This was 20 years ago? Yeah, a long time ago. Before anyone even cared anything about anything I did. Or me or Ned. Jason didn't care. He didn't even bring it up. He's been talking to you for half an hour, and you had to bring it up. How embarrassing. You wonder if people remember things, because I sure don't. Jason, can I talk to you for one second? Would you give...
You don't know what the guest wants to talk about. It's her show. By the way, he just did us a favor because he did, that shows a sign of respect out of Jason that he didn't just bring the Dodgers up and talk about them for 20 minutes. Oh, yeah. Because he would love to do that. Or Ned. Or Ned. Or Ned. Love Ned. So, Jessica, because we had similar backgrounds to you, is that...
Part of, you know, some people think it's not cool to talk about drive or ambition, but everybody has it who has any, even the smallest amount of success. You have to have some drive. Yeah. Why does that get a bad rap? Like, you're supposed to want things in this life, yeah? And then you get mocked for actually pursuing them? I know. And then if you don't, then you're called lazy and...
Unmotivated and entitled. I wonder if it's that people mistake drive ambition for ego, for like narcissism. When in reality, like my drive and ambition comes from, I mean, we're going to get real deep here. Maybe it comes from a sense of like wanting to be better. And maybe that also comes from my upbringing, a sense of like I want to be better than anybody.
I just want to get better every day. Just to see how much better you can get. It's just challenging yourself, right? Yeah, and it's not like I want it all. It's just I want to do a good job. See if I can do more or take on more. Yeah, I mean this all falls under the heading of challenge yourself probably, right? And if you're not, I suspect everybody here is the same in this way that –
For instance, I constantly say like, "Oh, you know, I'm just gonna retire. I'm just too tired and stuff." And then I think like, I couldn't do it for six hours
because I just, it's not that I get bored, but I just want to, that's the whole purpose of life is to engage and to challenge yourself and to be constantly, right? I mean, yeah. And hopefully you're constantly in a, in a state of having the courage to ask for more. Cause I, oftentimes I've been in a place of, Oh my God, I can't, thank God I'm not being asked to bear any responsibility. Cause I just don't have the ego or the confidence to take it on right now. Like,
I've been in that place a lot of times in my life. And if you find yourself in a place of like, no, please let the phone ring. I want the ball. Yeah. That's a great place to be. That's a gift and that's a positive. Sean, do you want the ball? Sure. Or both? I think we have a couple of them. Jessica, let me ask you this because I've been going through this lately, which is, you know, I'm 53 and I think...
You look great. You look amazing. I was not trying to elicit. Thank you. I was thinking... The tan? I mean, you can tell that you hang out a lot. It's real. You work out a lot. It's real. The tan is real. Look at that hairpiece. That's not a cheap one, you know? No. This one's new, by the way. I think it works. I can tell it. It's really high. I think I rotated it.
Forget how I get this one. But I've been having this thing lately where I'm working on stuff or doing things and I've been able to say... I think I was saying to you, Jay, maybe the other day that...
I can admit that I'm like scared because I'm about to do something, you know, that is maybe out of my comfort zone a little bit. And I think when I was a younger man, I had a tougher time admitting that or I wasn't involved enough or I wasn't mature enough. And I wonder if you have those things because you do a lot of things that are very challenging, certainly when it comes to your work. Do you have those moments now as you get older where you go like, yeah, I'm scared about this or I'm nervous about this?
not that you're not going to do it, but that you recognize that? Do you have that at all? Are you asking me? Yeah. Yes, I definitely have. I mean, it's also the sense of,
Because I don't feel far away from how I grew up. I always want to feel like I'm grateful and thankful. So I don't... I find laziness the... In my... Who I am, I find it to be the worst trait. And I also have difficulty with lazy... You know, if someone's super lazy, I have difficulty being around it because I feel like, wow, you could do so much. You could do... You know, there's all these incredible things out there that you could be a part of if you just...
Show up for yourself and show up for others. And so I have that in me where it's like even if I'm really scared, if there's someone that believes that I can do it, I don't want to let them down and I really want to –
push myself and I don't want to allow any kind of nerves or fear. And especially with Tammy Faye, I had so much fear of like, oh my God, this is such a swing. And I'm going to get made fun of. But this idea of like, I can't like...
Allow and that's ego actually if you allow your ego to stop you from doing something right because it's all about how you're perceived But do you think yeah interesting but but at the same time, but is it ego? Is it II I'm asking I'm actually like wondering maybe you guys jump in if is it ego to acknowledge that fear of
Meaning a good, a good thing or a bad thing? Yeah. Like just to go like, Hey, this is something that's really challenging and I need to, and I'm just recognizing it. Maybe it's, I think it would take, I think it would take a healthy ego to admit that something is presenting a challenge to you. And I think, but it is also that same ego that's going to be the fuel to push you through it. And that the, and that you shouldn't be nervous about the fact that you're not feeling the confidence to run into the situation because the confidence lives on the backside of the accomplishment. It's
It's like, no, the confidence will be there once I get through it.
You know, that's what I'm going to earn. So don't take it as a false negative. It would be a false negative to think, oh, God, I can't handle this because I'm not feeling confident going into it. The confidence lives after it, I think, for me. For sure, for sure. Totally. If you're confident while you're doing it, if I am, I find that the work is probably bad. It's not as good, yeah. For sure. Anxiety is a good gas. When you're like, yeah, I got this, man. Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. I am petrified before every single performance. Is that true? Petrified. And it makes you great. Well, I don't know about that, but I just like... Okay, Tony winner. No, no, no. I'm being... Thanks. It makes you great. Well, thanks, but I'm just saying it's a true... I don't know if it does. So I'm agreeing with you, Sean. We've seen the show. No, but...
But wait, I want to talk... So Jessica, back to like... When I was a kid, I was just... I'm asking you if you felt the same thing. When I was a kid, I had... You know, my dad left and my mom was always working. She was great, but you were kind of left to parent yourself. And so you kind of are given this option of figuring this life out on your own or kind of just...
taking a backseat to it. And I think that decision at some point was like, wait a minute, no one's... I have to figure... I have to take care of myself and figure this out for myself. So, and I've taken that into adulthood where it's just like, and I think for better or worse, sometimes worse, I don't stop. Like, I've...
I got to get food on the table. I got to eat. I got to, because I've been so, there's been so many times where I didn't have food and I didn't have, you know, so it's a fear as much as it is a drive. Wow, we have very similar upbringings, Sean. It's crazy. It should be noted, Sean, you feed yourself the same way you did when you were 11, which is just tuna salad, potato chips, and soda. Macaroni and cheese. Don't forget about the mac and cheese. It's so true. It's so true. By the way, on my corner of my building, there is an ice cream truck every single day and a fruit stand. I passed that fruit stand. Yeah.
Don't even look at the poor guy. Yeah, do you guys find, Jessica and Sean, that you're not great at asking for help, that you're not great at sort of deferring or delegating because you've had to sort of be self-sufficient for so long? Yeah, I do. I tend to do everything and to the point where then I get completely overwhelmed. And I think because I was the oldest child too.
There was a sense of having to take care of my – I almost said my kids, my siblings. My mom would bartend and it would be like us there. So it was really a sense of trying to figure out how everyone was going to be okay. So I think I also have that now even as –
this is too much. And my friends were like, okay, settle down, Chastain. But I try to like, if someone has an issue, I'm like, okay, let's solve it. Let's figure it out. Let's, you know, and I've had to understand that everyone has the dignity of their own process. Yes. And I allow them to have their own life. I'm so similar. And these guys can attest to it. I'm like, they're like, hey, should we? I'm on it.
I'm like, I'll get it. I'll take care of it. Sean, we'll get an email about some work thing and it'll be like a long email that'll have maybe 12 points to it that most people would be like, let's talk about it and think about it maybe for 24 hours. Yeah, I'm not even going to read this email yet. Sean, within five minutes is like, yes and no and yes and we should do this. I'm like, whoa, whoa,
whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah, I know. And right, Sean, and I do say to Sean, Sean and I are talking, I go, it's okay, you can just take a beat. Yeah, I know. Let's think about it. Yeah. I have to learn that. Do you? No, don't, because it's so helpful that you answer all these emails. It is the best. No, I love that you do that. You're the greatest. Yeah. We'll be right back. And now, back to the show.
Now, what about – I like to ask actors that have had the pleasure of working with so many incredible directors if there's any desire to direct because you've been exposed to so much great directing and perhaps has armed you with sort of cherry-picking a bunch of different –
techniques that you'd want to see what you could do? - Yeah, I mean, I've had thoughts about doing it, especially when I've met, there's certain actors that I've met, and I was like, "Oh, I really wanna do something for this person." And I've thought about, or like, I've never seen a story about this before, and I would love to tell that story. And then I think about, well, wait a minute, when you're directing, you got, it's gonna take you a year and a half of your life
where I usually make like five films in that time. - It's a pay cut. - Yeah, and not even necessarily just that, it's also that maybe I have a sense of, in the same way of my personal life, I feel like I have to do everything, I wanna do everything,
"Wow, what's it gonna be when I really have to be like, 'I'm only allowed to do this one thing for so long.'" Yeah, Jay, actually, this goes to both of you, Jessica and Jason. Do you-- 'Cause, Jay, you do that. When you take a year to go and work on a film and direct it, do you miss getting that variety? And Jessica, on the backside of that is, do you-- You say you would do five films. Is that something you like? You like that constant change and that kind of-- that you're--
working on a film for three months and then you're working on something completely different for another three months. Is that something that you're cognizant of? You go, Jessica.
I would, I mean, I trained, I trained in repertory theater, so I love the idea. And it would be amazing also in theater to be able to do this where you're one night, you're one part and the next night you're another part. Maybe not. Philip Seymour Hoffman. And yeah, I remember that. Jesse Riley for, yeah. You saw that too? We are theater nerds. Even like doing different plays, like having an ensemble and then like every night you get to do something else. I feel like,
That was the hard part for me of being on this run for so long. It was the constant sense of like, this is the journey, I'm on this journey every day. And it would be nice to kind of go on the flip side and say like, okay, now maybe on Tuesdays, I get to do this kind of thing and explore something else. Well, for you and for Sean, did you guys ever get, and Sean, you're still in the midst of it, you ever get to the point where it's feeling so monotonous that you are very deliberate about making tonight different? Yeah.
Like I'm going to play this scene jealous instead of insecure, or I'm going to like a completely different energy and not tell any of the other actors, but just pace and intention and everything just is still works.
Well, I think the actors would really appreciate that. Well, I mean, it doesn't have to be a 180, but something that is just changes the look from your fellow actor. Like, honestly, it's like, man, what the fuck are you? You're painting me in a corner here, man. But, Jay, do you miss that?
Do I? I mean, do you miss the variety? Do you miss that change when you're working on a film for a year? No, because I just geek out on all the processes of directing, you know, prep and post and all that stuff. But I feel like if I was on stage doing the same part for months on end, I would probably screw things up a little bit on purpose or start to get excited about, oh, who's going to forget a line tonight?
Yeah, because you miss getting that. You could say it here if you want the quote. You like to get strange. I like to get some strange. When it comes to work. When it comes to work, don't be an animal, dude. What about Jessica? What about that, what Jason was saying?
I've worked with someone who is like that. It's frustrating to work with someone. I mean, on film, it's great. Yeah. It's great. Do you know what I mean? Like with actors where you're like, it's still the same scene, but there's all these, we're discovering new paths through the scene and who knows where the take's gonna go. That's exciting. But I feel like when the show is set, Yeah.
It's set. Too disruptive. Yeah, I would. Sometimes when someone's done it, it feels kind of almost self-serving because it's like, well, wait a minute, there's still a whole other journey we have to go on and now you've kind of taken out this marker. How are we going to get there? That would be a fun war to watch if you were privy to it by being another cast member and you can watch two like, oh, she just recognized. It happens a lot.
Yeah. She just saw that he's trying to do a 180 on this thing. Oh, now she's going to double that 180. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then who chastises an actor? The stage manager? Yeah.
Yeah, usually. They're sort of the cop. It's ongoing, right? Because if you, I don't think the listener knows this, but if you start messing around with the dialogue, you get like reported to equity and equity can fine you if you start messing around with changing lines and stuff like that. Oh, I don't know about that. Isn't there, I think the stage manager is like obligated to report you if you start going rogue and changing stuff. It sounds like you've snitched before, Jason. You know the thing about snitches, you know what they get. What happens?
Stitches get stitches, bro. Oh, shit. Sorry, go ahead, Jessica. What happened? You found out? No, I found out, I was talking to the director, and he said that every night he gets a report, he got a report, because we closed, where it was like, even like when an actor coughs, it said when the actor coughed. I know. They write down every single thing that happens in every show. Wait, what? Yeah. Wait, what? And the producers get to read it, yeah. Yeah, so you're very aware. I mean, it's tough sometimes, because I do find like in...
There's a misconception about acting where someone's like, okay, the more different they are each take, the better actor they are because they're so alive, you know? And so I think people are trying to be sometimes...
make things alive and exciting, but they don't realize in theater that that can be disruptive. Yeah. Well, yeah, and in film too, and Jay, you've been through this. I've certainly been through this in post where you're like, hey, did this guy ever do one fucking take where he held the thing the same way two times? Oh, yeah. You're killing me. I can't fucking edit this scene. What is he doing? But it's okay. Like, Jay, to what you were saying, I think it's okay in a play to...
play within the choices that are locked. - Yes. - You know, within the play that is locked, you can experiment, but not enough to throw-- Like, there's this great-- There's this John Drozetski who plays George Gershwin in our play. He's brilliant. Everybody's brilliant in the show. But he's so great at playing within the locked thing. He's brilliant. And one night, it almost made me laugh, he goes,
"Oscar, who wants to hear your music?" And I say, he's a vision in my head, he's a ghost, the ghost of Gershwin. And I say, "Lots of folks, that's who." And he goes, "And the line is who? "Your wife, the kid in the lab coat?" And one night he goes out of nowhere, he goes, "Who wants to hear your own music?" I go, "Lots of folks, that's who." And he goes, "Who? "You got your wife, you got your kid in the lab coat,
And then he just goes like this. Right. And it almost made me die laughing. Oh, my God. Amazing. But it was good because it was within the realm of the character. But, like, he was listening to me. Okay, your wife. Sure. In the lab coat. And I was... Yeah. You know, Michael Shannon's really good at that, too. Yeah. You know, I've worked with him a lot. And I'm mostly on camera, but...
So he doesn't go, and working with him is like kind of working with an animal because you're like, what is he going to do? But it's always within the structure. And he comes from theater as well. And it's really like, it's amazing when you're working with an actor who knows where the story has to be the most important. It's not yourself. That's what it is. It's about whether or not you're selfish. Because if you're changing it for yourself,
because you want to feel something new or you're bored, that's not appropriate. But if you're telling, you have to tell the story that everyone's there to tell. Exactly. I killed Michael Shannon in a movie once. In a movie once. With a gun? No, no, no. I stabbed him in the throat. You stabbed?
Michael Shannon in the throat? In the throat in Let's Go to Prison 20 years ago with the Michael Shannon. That's right. Bob Odenkirk. How did he take that? Like a man. He took it pretty well. I remember Bob being like, okay, so Michael, oh my God, so you're just going to grab him. I'm like, wait, how are we going to do this scene? Michael is so scary. He's the best actor. He's such a great guy.
But I was like, "I have to stab him in the throat." And he just-- He did all the work. I just kind of did the motion. -He was just incredible. -You just did a bunch of apologizing before the scene. He was the best. I feel like we'll be remiss if we don't ask-- I'm gonna ask, usually Sean at this point has already asked, -you've done so much theater. -Oh, yes. What's your favorite nightmare theater-- How did you not ask Jessica Chastain? -How have I not asked that question? -Oh, God. My favorite nightmare story that happened to me on stage? -Yeah. -Yes.
All right, I can say it now because we're closed. This is really gross. Great. I'm going to tell you guys. Grosser the better. I threw up. Wow. In a doll's house? I threw up and I swallowed it. Oh, God. That a girl. No way. And no one knew. And then... Because of what? Because of acid reflux or something? No, it was a bad performance from your co-star. What's his name?
I think I, and then from then on, I was like, I'm not eating within three hours of the show. Same. I'm not drinking water. Yeah, it's crazy. Wait, what happened? I don't know if I was nervous. I was like, kind of like sobbing. I like leaned over and it happened. And then for the rest, and I was like, oh my God.
you know, you can't let it out of your mouth. And then for the rest of the show, I couldn't tell anyone 'cause I was on a chair facing the audience the whole time. - Do you have any intimate scenes after that? - I had to kiss someone. - Sure. - No! - Yes, yes, it was a nightmare and I couldn't explain. And then the second we had the curtain call and the curtain came down, I said, "You guys, I'm so sorry, I vomited."
That's so crazy because, Jason, didn't you ever think for a long time that women would barf after they kissed you, right? Yeah, which is better. Yeah, I guess. Jessica, that's insane. That's crazy. Was it an open mouth kiss that you had to do on stage?
No, that night it was definitely a closed mouth kiss. I mean, it was supposed to be kind of like, it wasn't a sensual, it wasn't like a really sexy, like we're about to sleep, you know. But it was, you know, a sensual kiss. And that night I was like, oh. I mean, even talking to anyone, I was just so...
I have to, in the show, I have to scream in front of this guy, Peter Gross, who's also brilliant in the show. And we get in a screaming match and we're literally nose to nose. And one night, I don't know what happened. It was just like a couple of weeks ago.
So much saliva came spewing from my mouth. It was all over his face as I'm screaming. And then that night after he goes, he was so sweet about it. He goes, "Hey, can I talk to you about that one?" And I go, "Yeah." And he goes, "Is there any way that you could spit just a little less when we argue?" I was like, "Absolutely, absolutely." He was so sweet about it. - It was like a tick explosion, right?
Yeah, but it's really funny because it's obviously not something you had control over. It wasn't like you thought like, oh, I'm going to really go to town and saliva all over his face tonight. No, no, but he was right. I actually can control it now. Now that he's brought it up, I actually figured it out.
Let me ask you, if he hadn't brought it up, would you have continued doing it? Great question. Spitting that much? Yeah. Probably not. I probably, I know what he meant. I know what he meant. It was like, I was like spitting everywhere. Oh my God. Poor guy's covered in sloppy Joe and chin chin.
Sean, you get chin-chin flown out. Sorry, go ahead, Jason. I was just going to ask Jessica, now that the show is done, you're going to take some time off. I would assume you're going to start doing the thing you're second best at, which is probably as good, probably a lot of parenting. But what about the – is there a hobby? Is there something that we would be surprised to learn that you're almost as good at? Backstage. Backstage.
No, I'm not good at anything else. That's a terrible thing. Come on, that's not true. I mean, I have a production company and... That doesn't count. Yeah, it doesn't count. It's something that's outside the industry. We're talking about pickleball, painting. Cooking, baking. Okay, I went to cooking school. What? Yes. Yeah, I went to school. So after Zero Dark Thirty, I was like, I want to do something completely different. I went to cooking school. And? So I'm a good cook. What kind of cooking? I'll probably do that. What kind of cooking? It's like saucy stuff? Yeah.
I like roasting, and I like the kind of cooking that the whole house, it's like a slow cook situation. So for hours, it'll be like the smell of something. I love poached pears with sweet potato ice cream. Sure. That kind of stuff. That sounds good. You make the ice cream? Yeah. Really? I like the fall cooking. Right. It's starting to get cold outside. Yeah, yeah. Remember that? Yeah.
Yeah. I know. Wait a minute. Wait, you make ice cream? I'm always fascinated. And an ice cream maker. I mean, it's very easy. I got to get one of those. Oh, you do. It's so easy. It takes 30 minutes. Sean, I wouldn't. That sounds like a real slippery slope for you. Yeah, dude. Come on. That sounds kind of interesting. I mean, legitimately. Yeah. We're going to have to cut you out of your house at some point. Hey, hey,
Jessica, I think that you should do like a food line. I think, or like cookbooks or something. I think it'd be pretty massive. You think so? Sure. Yeah. I do. Just fall cooking. Yeah. With, with, with Jesse Boo. Jesse Boo. Yeah. That's your title. I love it.
I don't know that it would be super interesting to watch, especially if it's like, it'd be like a four hour show where you're just like, let's look at it in the oven. No, but if you did, if you did like a book, if you did like a cookbook and did some stuff and did a line of food, I think it would do real, real well. All right. All right. Well, maybe, maybe that's my second chapter. And you could call it like juke, right? J-O-O-C.
kind of like goop, but you know. Juke. After talking about vomiting on the stage, I could open with that and then say, listen, it's so good you could, no, I don't even know.
Oh, my God. It's so good you can eat it twice. There you go. We've got it. Oh, my God. Listen, we have monopolized. I just realized we could just keep talking, but we're crushing you on time, and you need to go on vacation. Yeah. Thank you for visiting with us, Jessica. Yeah, Jessica, thank you so much. I was so happy to...
- When I got asked to do this, I of course listened to the Cate Blanchett one. - Oh yeah. - I love how much y'all tease Sean for being as equally as theater nerdy as all of us. - He's such a good guy. - I love it. - With a big smile. - He's not just theater nerdy, he's everything nerdy as it turns out.
Yeah. Do you have any Star Wars questions for him? Yeah. I'd love it. Or Star Trek. Or Battlestar Galactica. Any of the stars. Although I will say this. This is what I wanted to ask you. Before I let you go, springing up Star Wars and stuff, you've done a few, I'm going to say science fiction, not really, but in that realm, I mean, Interstellar, Martian, some of the bigger ones that fall, right? I loved Interstellar. I know, me too. We were just saying yesterday how much, it's my 14-year-old's favorite film. He's seen it 30 times. Mm-hmm.
Do you like that genre? Because you've done a bunch on the highest level. Yeah. I mean, in fact, after I did Interstellar, I got to work with Kip Thorne on that, which was amazing. And like even trying at the end, like writing the equation and all that stuff. That was obviously a lot of work to try to look like.
That was believable at all. But then when I finished that and Ridley Scott came up to me and approached me about doing The Martian, I said, yeah, here's my thing, though. If I sign on, I want to go to space camp. Oh.
And he goes, there's no really adult space camera. I was like, well, we can make one. So I went to Houston. I want to do this. I went to NASA in Houston and I went to JPL and I saw like the rovers. I've been there. Yes. It's amazing. Amazing. And I did like the whole virtual reality where you're on Mars. On Mars and you can walk. Yes. Yeah. Oh my God. I did the same thing. Yeah. And so I was really like, I'm excited to do things with...
who knows what the film or the project is going to be when it finishes. But I just want to know that the experience of making something is going to be enriching in some way to my life. And so that was really, yeah. I mean, if someone wants to give me another sci-fi space movie, I
I don't know. Are you a fan of the genre? Like, are you a, like, Star Wars, Star Trek, anything like that? Um, no. No, okay. Oh, Jessica, thank you so much for being here. I mean, I am when it's based in reality. Sean hates you now. Sean, are you crying? Sorry, Sean. Sean, get it together. I know. My very good friend Oscar Isaac did all the Star Wars, and I, you know, I'm not. I like it when it's...
when it feels like it's happening or it's real. Well, don't worry, Jessica. I'm not a huge fan. I'm with you. But I like Game of Thrones and there's dragons there, so I'm all over the place. That works for me. The great Jessica Tessain. Thank you so much for joining us. What a pleasure. Great to see you again. Thank you, Jessica. All right, what do I do? Do I cover my mic? Do I get out of here? Just slam your laptop. Bye, guys. Congratulations, Sean. Thank you so much for this. Bye, Jessica.
Wow. Well, you classed it up a little bit there, Willie. Classed it up. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, what a surprise. I mean, I just literally saw her yesterday or two days ago. Two months ago. Two months ago, Sean. This is delayed. It's wild. I just saw her two months ago. How many times do I need to do this? You're going to love show business. How funny, right, Sean, that we had Jessica because you guys spent so much time. You saw her all the time. So much time together, yeah. Back in the day over on Broadway. Always saw her. Always. She was always so pleasant, always so sweet. And, yeah.
You know, I fanned out. She's so... I get it. Who wouldn't fan out? She's so accomplished, and she's so good at what she does. Yeah, there's not a lot of... You know, back to that Juilliard thing, you do always think...
I always, you know, I always just think you're set. If you go to Juilliard, you're set. And, like, she's one of those people that made that happen. What a talent. I know. Have you seen... Sorry, I just want to... I cut you off, but did you see George and Tammy? No. The thing we were talking about with her and Michael Shannon. Yeah. Incredible. I know. It's about Tammy Wynette and George Jones. Yeah. And she is... Yeah, I want to see it. They're both so good in it. So, so, so good. And so...
Such unbelievable talent and yeah, really, really, really good. Yeah, and the season one already happened. I think season two is coming out or something and I want to catch up. I don't know. It's amazing and just, I don't know. Anyway, she's, what a delight. Yeah, easy. She seems like easy to hang out with too. Sean, and I loved how much you and she have sort of similar trajectories in that. Isn't that wild? Yeah. I had no idea. We didn't really get into it.
And when I saw her, there was never time to like, how was your childhood? You know, until you mean when you were doing like press stuff for your plays, you weren't like, hey, did you also have five brothers and sisters? And did you grow up with a single? Like, yeah, we didn't get into that. No, that would have been weird, dude.
I know. Maybe if you'd just done the small effort of walking across the street or next door and seen her fucking show. I wish I could, but I'm in the show. You could have because you had the show nights. No, you had Tuesday nights and you could have gone. Oh, I did have Tuesday nights. And you could have gone. Yeah, what were you doing on Tuesday nights aside from just warming donuts in your toaster oven? I'm like, what?
When was the last time you weren't, be honest, warmed a donut? When's the last time you cut a donut open, right? You just butterflied it, scooped it, and toasted it in your toaster oven. By the way, how good does that sound? Sometimes there's donuts at work. Sometimes people bring donuts and you do the half thing where you just, I'm just going to eat half. I promise I'll eat half. And then a half hour later, you're just going to eat the half. When they're flipped open and there's a plastic knife left in there and people just cut little pieces off it. Yeah, uh-huh.
And then the same person comes back and just finishes it. Comes back five times. That's why in Canada we got the Timbits, eh? Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah. If you're going to go to Timmy's. Oh, the Timmy Horton. He's just got great donuts. I used to eat a Tim Hortons all the time. Oh, they're so good, eh? So good. Get some. Turkey sandwich. Yeah. Honestly, the thing is, what's great about the Timbit. Here comes a bite. Here comes a bite. It's just, you don't have to eat the whole thing. It's just one bite. Bye. Bye.
Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Michael Grant Terry, Rob Armjarv, and Bennett Barbico. Smartless. This episode was recorded on June 13th.
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