"Edward Norton"
58:02 Share

Sean, happy holidays to you. Happy holidays. You're a musical genius. If you were to make up a new Christmas classic song, how would it go? It would go like this. What about if I give you a little beat right now? Yeah, give me a beat. You write some lyrics, right? A little melody, yeah. So... Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. To Jason and Will. Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas. Do you know anybody named Bill?

Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. This is going to give kids nightmares. What's going on? Welcome to Smart List. Welcome to Smart List. Welcome to Smart List. Enjoy the show. It's going to be better than the song. Smart. Less. Smart. Less. Smart. Less.

Oh, hey. Snap. Snap. We were just talking about dirty desktops, Sean, and dirty inboxes. Okay. Do you have like a bunch of emails that you haven't read or you did read and you haven't really deleted them and it's not in sync with your iPhone? Are you a mess technologically or is it tight? Answer the question. Answer the question, Sean. Okay.

Or take your time. We're not on the air or anything. You know what? I don't delete emails, but I don't go back and check them out. Is that the question? How many do you keep unread, I think, is what he's getting. Oh, no, no. I like zero, zero, zero unread. Okay, but so once you read them, you don't delete them? Why not? No. Well, why not?

I don't know. It's an extra step I didn't think I had to do. So you just have all the emails you've ever received are sitting in your inbox. That is correct. So your inbox is empty? No, no. It's full. No, all my emails I've ever received. Yours, I'm saying to Jason. Yeah, absolutely clean. The only emails that I have read that I keep in there are the things that I need to respond to when I have the time to really focus on them and respond to them. They're like little reminder, like to-do list. You keep them unread, right? No, no, no. I read them.

And then if they're in the inbox still, that means I still have yet to respond to them. So what you can do is, alternatively, you can...

keep them red but you still hold on to them in case you need to reference them and go like hey what was that thing I need to go back because I go back all the time but that's in the trash you can just go into the trash and see them there no because they eventually get deleted and so like I need you have a thing you can check and say never delete guys I'll be like you know did I get that version of the script or like especially if I'm going back and forth and I'm doing drafts with Chappie I'll be like oh wait where was the fucking drafts boy Sean I knew we'd get a Chappie it's early today oh Chappie

Mark Chappell, the greatest writer in the history of Britain. There we go. There's the quote. That's the clip. Wait, but do you – what was I going to say about e-mails? You know, the problem I have, and I hope Apple's listening, the problem is on iMessage. When I read a text from somebody and I go, oh, I really want to respond to that, but I don't have the time to really focus on it the way that it deserves, I want to mark it as unread.

so that it stays lit up because otherwise I'll forget to go back to it. And then the person thinks I'm just the a-hole that I'm trying to pretend not to be when I don't respond. Sorry, Sean's having a conversation with somebody on the side. Yeah, can you tell? Do you not have a red light spinning around in your room like we do? You know we're rolling, right? Sorry, Scotty was asking me something. Wait. Is it about whipped cream? No.

He asked me if I wanted another sugar in my tea. Did he really? Yeah. Wait, you have tea? Oh, that's right. You don't drink coffee, do you, Sean? No, I drink tea. But it's like a milkshake because I put tons of cream and sugar in it. That's shocking. But wait, the last thing about that, because I think, you know, now, Jason, you can unsend from your phone.

That's the latest iPhone update. So if you send an email, you can mark it. Oh, right. Yeah. There's an oops button. Yeah, like if you wanted to edit it. How does that work? Does it then disappear from the sender's inbox or from the recipient's? That is correct.

Well, I still think that it would be easy for them to mark texts as unread if you'd like to, but they haven't done it yet. Yeah. I'm pissed about it today. Will, I see you're in white again. Sean, I see you have a hat on again. Yeah. I don't always wear white. Yeah, you do. Makes your teeth pop.

What are you talking about? All right, let's get on with it. It's early in the morning and my friends aren't that chatty, so we're going to go ahead and we're going to introduce this. No, I can chat about stuff. I am very chatty. I can chat about stuff. Yeah, and I do want to get to your guest, but, you know, it is... Do you have anything worth chatting about? Sean, go to your list. Okay, let me just think. What have you worked on? What are your bits today? Well, I have... Oh, the first bit was, oh, what if he started reading, Scotty, come and ask me for sugar? No, already did that. Okay.

No. Well, remember when we had Rian Johnson on and Scotty just... Scotty appears whenever there's a Star Wars reference of any kind. When Ewan was on, he made a... Yeah, he came out in it. Right, appearance as well. All right, we got a fella today. Okay. Who has had to put up with a lot of BS. Well, probably. Um...

So we got a fellow today that has somehow managed to keep his head down and do some really cool work in a lot of different areas that many people notice and are affected by. Some of that is acting. Some of that's directing. Some of it's producing. Some of that is entrepreneurial, philanthropic, environmental. Did you just say philanthropic? Yeah, he did. Okay. Philanthropic. All right.

He's been all... I'm going to start at the top. Don't you dare. He's been all around us, but we know very little about him, or at least less than you would assume given his fame. Well, that ends today with this hard-hitting investigative journalistic hour. He was born in Boston. He's married to a Canadian. Prick up, Will. Yep. He speaks Japanese. What? Got the acting bug from watching Cinderella. He debuted in Annie Get Your Gun. Prick up, Sean.

Has one kid, three Oscar nominations, a degree from Yale, knows Akito and Krav Maga, and he's a big brother to Molly and James. Folks, please welcome Shauna's dude, Edward Harrison Norton. No way. Oh, look at this guy. Oh, my God. Yeah, big slice of class today. You closed it up. Classic guest. So nice to meet you. There he is. Wow.

I like the lighting. I needed a towel to bite on. I bit through my thumb during the warm-up. Because it was so embarrassing. Yeah, because it was so embarrassing. Because of the Kelly and Regis vibe to our pattern. It's just early. We're tired. We're a little tired. It's too cute. Let's give him some hard-hitting journalistic...

There was so much weird stuff in what you just read. Like, where do you, what are you on? Like, something other than Wikipedia that's even worse? No, no, it's just straight Wikipedia. Yeah.

It's all Wikipedia. Were you making that stuff up like Krav Maga? His little funny is that he weaves stuff into Wikipedia. Yeah, I usually add some stuff that's not true, but I didn't do any ads. Aikido and Krav Maga is on your page. Is that not accurate? No. I'm going to have to go talk with Jimmy Wales. I think your car is getting stolen right now. Someone's stealing your car.

Or is that Sean? No, that's not me. That's Scotty making a run for it while Sean is distracted. No, that's not me. So you, but hang on, but you do know Japanese. Yeah, I'm okay on that. Wow. What do you mean you're okay on that? You know, it's like one of those things I did in my youth with a lot of passion, and then I went and lived over there and

Yeah. You know, I'm okay. I'm okay. I can do enough to impress like in the junket in Tokyo. I can get them all a flutter and then I don't understand anything they're saying after I've done my few key phrases that sound sophisticated. Can you say, good God, somebody's stealing my car? No. See, that's what I mean. Really? No. But you did study it and then you went there and you worked for a few years. But this has been a long time. We're all like

middle-aged now. Yeah. I can't remember all of us. I'm well past middle-aged now. But we all play roles in our 30s. That's what's amazing. Edward, where are we finding you? Are you on the East Coast right now? No, I'm in California. California. And wait, so you're married to a Canadian? Yeah, Shana Robertson. I didn't know that she... I've only met her a handful of times. I don't think we've ever met. Nice to meet you formally. Yeah, likewise. Nice to meet you.

I didn't know that Shauna was Canadian. Where is she from?

Toronto? Canadian farm girl from outside Toronto. No kidding. Parents are still on a 100-acre farm out there. What part of Ontario? Can you say the area? Markham. Markham. Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Markham. Always in Canada, eh? Oh, yeah. Yeah, but she came, you know, she started producing movies when she was literally like 18 years old. Yeah, that's true. For Mike Binder. No way. Oh, of course. Mike Binder, friend of ours, friend of the show. Right? Yeah, we know Mike Binder. Sure we do.

It's funny. I'm really... I'm sitting here thinking, I'm actually surprised that we haven't met. Like, I feel like... Yeah, I'm surprised too. I'm surprised you don't know Shauna well. Yeah, we do. I've met Shauna a number of times, probably four or five times over the last 20 years, just briefly. Did she work for Judd at one point? Well, she and Judd started Apatow. She produced all Judd's movies. Oh, really? So I suppose that was it. That's cool. And then...

She did Elf, and she produced Elf, and she produced Anchorman, and then she and Judd teamed up after Anchorman and then did that whole run of 40-Year-Old Virgin. Right. Did she produce something that you were working on? Is that how you guys met? No, no. We met in London. Woody Harrelson and his wife introduced us. Oh, how about that? Is that right? Woody was doing Night of the Iguana.

on uh on the west end amazing and and actually very i was i was rehearsing a movie in new york and i um

I was getting a little aggravated with the process and they were like, can you do another day tomorrow? And I had this very impulsive, it was a little bit of a passive aggressive thing. I said, no, no, I can't. I'm not free tomorrow. And they said, you know, how come? And I said, oh, I'm going to London tonight to see a friend in a play. And I, you know, I had that plan. So I got to go. And then I called my, I literally went on like, you know.

Expedia. Expedia and got a ticket to London and called Woody and said, I'm coming to see you. And that's, you know, that's... And then it changed your life. Yeah. So it was meant to be. And now you got Atlas and you're just sailing off into the sunset, playing dad. Now, so... Wait, Jason, do you and Ed know each other? We do. We know a little bit. Like how, from where? I don't know. Well, through Shauna. Shauna, Jacks.

Yeah. Yeah, little mixers. Yeah, I don't even know. And Amanda. Sean and Amanda are friends. Yeah. Amanda is the key to my entire social life. As you two guys know, Will and Sean, you know, I know no one. I have no friends. Jason, I must say, I'm always amazed slash slightly shocked at how well you know other people's kids' names.

you always call out their names. Well, I do a little research. Yeah, I know. But the way that you throw it out with such ease. It makes it seem like I'm really familiar with their name when in fact I've just been studying my notes. And what happens is, and it's disarming for the guests because they go, oh man, blah, blah, blah. And I realize it's a style and I call BS on it. Right. They think that I care and that I'm close with them. It's all, I'm a professional liar. We all are. Let's bust him right now though. Okay.

Because he's on Wikipedia, he actually thinks I only have one child still, and I actually have two. Because they have that wrong on Wikipedia. Oh, man. By the way, you know who's going to kill him for this? Amanda. Let me finish. Tell me how little Sebastian is doing.

Is he still a little angel? Jason, Amanda is going to kill you for this. She's going to fucking kill me for that. She is going to kill you. And you know what else? Let me tell you something. God, you just busted me, Edward. So here's the thing. So I was doing my little notes about an hour ago and I see on Wikipedia, yeah, so Atlas, and I'm like, boy,

Boy, you know, Amanda sent me two pictures yesterday. It looked like two different kids, but then I thought, well, no, Wikipedia's just got Atlas there. That must be a second picture of an older picture of Atlas. Boy. And I'm like, God damn it. So now Amanda's going to be like, hey, dick, I sent you two pictures, two children. And she's going to say, once again, you trusted Wikipedia over her. And once again, it's proven one thing.

Always trust my instincts. I was so right. I'm so glad that we dug into this because there was so much fruit here. All right. But in my defense, they both have beautifully long, luxurious blonde hair, right? Which could be boy or girl because they've got these great sharp features. Edward, how old are they? One's a boy, one's a girl. And they're nine and six. But they...

They did both. He had real, like, Greg Allman level, you know. A lot of that was extensions, though, right? Some people were saying, God, he looks like, you know, Brad Pitt in Legends of the Fall. And I was like, I think it's a little more Greg Allman, like, in the Cher era, you know. Yeah.

So wait, Jason, speaking of kids, I want to see if this is an urban legend because it's become an oft-repeated story in our family when it comes to work-family dynamics that one of the girls heard you over-telling Amanda that Ozark was going to get picked up for season two and that she leaned in and said, oh, I was really looking forward to getting to know you better. Is that true? LAUGHTER

No, I need to know if it's true. Did one of your girls say to you, I was really looking forward to getting to know you better? That's the first time I've fucking heard that. But I don't doubt that it's true. I think Amanda passed that one along to us. Well, you see, Amanda was probably protecting me, and you, Edward, have now scarred me. I am murdered. I am murdered. This is...

This is one of the greatest things. It sounds like Franny at about age six. Which turns out about right. Is SmartList now four people? Is this what it is now? Is Edward a permanent? This is so phenomenal. We would love to keep you in the bullpen in the event of illness or anything like that to any of us. I could be the fourth Beatle on the Let It Be. The rest of you will all be in light and I'll be Paul in red. Sean, did you know that there was only three Beatles and then they brought in the fourth?

Not true. This is you talking, yeah. The guy laughing is the dumbass that was surprised to hear that Beatles is spelled B-E-A-T. Hey, listen. And he was like, huh. Hey. Well, that is clever. Hey, listen, penis. There's a ton of comments. Are we still calling him penis? Okay. I call him penis. There's a ton of comments that agree with me they didn't know either. Well, they're dumb as you. That's true. Sean's like, oh, that's like in the Tom Hanks movie, The Wonders. Right.

You know, what was his movie about the one hit, you know, the one... Oh, no. He uses a Tom Hanks directorial debut to reference the Beatles. Wait, what was it? That Thing You Do. That Thing You Do. That Thing You Do. That Thing You Do. Speaking of debuts, so, Edward, I don't know where, where did you, what part of the country did you grow up in?

- Columbia. - I've got that part. I've got that part. - Central Maryland. - He was born in Boston, Massachusetts, and then he was brought up in Maryland. - In Maryland. - Oh, wow. - Yeah, yeah. Baltimore, Washington. - Didn't you spend time in Chicago? I thought, no. - Mm-mm. - No. - Nevermind. - Did you, so did you grow up in, were the arts a big part of your life as a kid? Were you doing stuff? How old were you when you started to perform or act or whatever?

Yeah, I mean, the answer is yes. My folks were like really not artists but aficionados of the theater. They loved theater. They loved film. I'm glad you said aficionado. It's a word I would have used and it would have befuddled both of these fucking idiots, but thank you. Yesterday he threw out a couple of multisyllabic words. I said it and Sean squinted even more. No, I know why. Yeah.

He will audibly go, I sometimes keep a log of funny shit that everybody says. And as you were telling your very nice story, I started laughing at Jason saying, well, they're as dumb as you are. Yeah. So he was also on a delay, Edward. I have a little bit on a delay. The synapses are a little rusty. And now a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

Sorry, we interrupt. So your parents were aficionados, yeah? No, no. My mom was an English teacher. She taught Shakespeare and all that kind of stuff. Oh, wow, really? But honestly, I had a babysitter who was at a local theater arts school. Keep it clean. And my parents took me to see her in a thing, and it really lit me up.

Was this Cinderella? Does Wiki have that right? Not really. It was a, I think it was a musical of Cinderella or something like that, but it wasn't called Cinderella. The babysitter brought you to the show? No, no, she was in it. So my parents took me to see this very, you know. Well, but hang on a second. What was a musical version of Cinderella that was so like, ah, I got to do that?

Because it was a theater arts school, you know, like an outside of regular school kind of thing in our community that, like, waiting for Goffman, basically. Yeah. But for kids. But it was, because it had kids ranging from, like, 18 to 5, they would do these productions where there was something for everyone. And there were little kids in this production. And you thought that might be for me. I thought that was pretty cool, yeah. And, yeah.

And I just, it wasn't like, oh, this is what I'm going to do at all. I just was interested. And, you know, if I said soccer looks fun, my parents would put me in soccer. And it was a thing I started doing, like many of us. It was, you know, one among many things I did when I was young. And then I kind of, I was...

I loved it. I think I was good at it then, but mostly it was just fun. It was something I did after school. It was fun. I did it with regular... But in high school, I got very self... I went to public school. There actually was a really great theater director there, but I got super self-conscious in high school. I was really little. And I grew like a foot... A lot of that was the weed. Yeah, the weed. No, I was very self-conscious about...

in high school about performing and stuff like that. So I wasn't, I kind of pulled back from it. But then maybe I was 16 or 17, I think. I saw a class trip went down to the,

National Theater in D.C. and Ian McKellen was doing... He was doing this one-man show that he toured with that was about his life in theater. It was about Shakespeare's life, the Shakespearean text, and his life in the theater. Oh, that's cool. I can't remember what he called it, but it was absolutely amazing. It was...

It sounds... It actually sounds... Now that I'm saying it, it actually sounds really sort of esoteric. But he... Sean just went it again when I said esoteric. No, no. He was looking up. He was looking up. Scratch him out. Dictionary.com. Anyway, I saw Ian McKellen when I was in a high school trip. And it had a big, big impact on me. I'm sure. I was very...

It suddenly seemed like something you could do as an adult. Was it the performance part? I mean, if it was, I guess, you know, quasi-autobiographical in that he was talking about his life in the theater, etc., was him describing that alluring to you in that way? Yes, exactly. It was the combo of the life he described and the things it had taken him into. But then...

It was his weave. He was doing things from Shakespeare, which I wasn't super lit up on Shakespeare or something in high school like everybody. You wanted to like it, but it was tough to get into in some ways.

Despite your mother's proficiency. Yeah, yeah. No, she was really... And she was good at illuminating it for kids, I think. But, you know, you guys remember when Ken Branagh's thing, Henry V, came out? That was more maybe when we were in college. But anyway... Sean's squinting again. He...

Ian McKellen, he would do these pieces and he was talking about his life and then suddenly he would just sort of spin and almost... How did you have any idea that you were any good at it? Do you remember that moment where it was like, oh, some people say it's the first time they make somebody laugh or the first time they make somebody cry or something. Was there a moment where you're like, oh, I might not suck at this? That's a good question. I think I went through phases of...

When I decided, okay, this actually does interest me, then I went to college. Then I was playing sports and I wasn't really doing much theater. Then I started doing theater again and I think I started getting...

You know, I wasn't, I was doing all kinds of stuff. Yeah, but you're talking about the Yale Drama School. No, no, no, I didn't go to Yale Drama School. No, I didn't go to Yale Drama School. I got, I went, I was like a history major. You gotta refresh your page, Jason. Yeah, I know. You got a wonky browser. You are like 0 for 4 today. You did go to Yale though, yes? I did. Did not go to the drama school at Yale though. No, I did not. I was a history major and I wasn't, I thought, I honestly thought I might. Oh my God, are you kidding? Here comes Will.

I was doing theater on the side, a fair amount of it. But again, it was mostly just fun. And the idea, when I went to New York after, it was in the back of my mind that I wanted to see whether you could... I kind of was having a double life. I was like, I'm going to get a job, I'm going to do something. But I couldn't kind of let go of this interest in theater.

I was very passionate about film and stuff like that. But it wasn't even that I didn't love it or it was that I wasn't really giving myself permission to do it, you know? And why do you think so? Because my granddad, who was very influential in my life, he paid for me to go to college. And he was very excited and proud about the fact that I'd...

gotten into a good school and all these things. And I was very- Mom's dead or dad's dead? My mom's dead. And I was very close with him. And he, I really actually felt I sort of owed him doing something quote unquote serious with my, you know, I felt like I, and I actually kind of worked for him when I, doing like low income housing finance and development when I got out of school. No, no, in New York.

Boy, you're over a thousand. I don't know what the fuck. Edward, you and I have very similar tracks, and yours is much more successful. Mine is like the poor man's version of you, but I also was very close to my mom's dad, and he was very influential and helped me out a lot. And I also was a history...

Briefly, I dropped out of college and not Yale. My sister went to Yale. So I'm like the loser version of Edward. Eddie. Eddie Arnett. I don't think your response to Eddie. No, no, your version would be Eddie Arnett. I guess so. Yeah. Anyway, I'm with you every step of the way. I was going to say, it's funny that your mom was a teacher and yet you were surrounded by this and you had access to...

I guess things like Shakespeare or whatever. But I do... I find it interesting that as a young actor...

I found it very, as much as I wanted to connect with it, I found it very inaccessible. And every step of the way, for whatever reason, this is just me personally, when it came to text like that, I just couldn't find an access. Even, it doesn't matter whether it was Kenneth Branagh, I saw Ray Fiennes do Hamlet on Broadway 25 years ago. I don't know if you saw. Like, every time I tried to connect with it, I found it very, very difficult. And I

And I don't know why. And I think I can appreciate it more now than I did then. It was kind of wasted on me then. Do you know what I mean? I do, yeah. I do think people like Rafe, who I've seen, like he did Antony and Cleopatra, which is a tough play, like not, but he was able to illuminate it. He was able to let you know what it was really about with it, which is becoming middle-aged and wanting to find passion again and

I've definitely seen people who are able to bring it to life again, you know, in a special way. I'm not one of them. I did some Shakespeare stuff in college, but sometimes it almost felt more like a box that someone's ticking in a career than it did. I love it. I love going to it when I see people who have that, but I...

I was always drawn much more to things that felt like, what could I do with that? That's, it doesn't fit me. And what could I do with it that can make it,

new or what, you know, I don't know. I always like the blank page. I personally... Yeah, the film is more like it might be like performative, like I've got to do the Shakespeare as it is intended to be done as opposed to a freeball character that's written in an original screenplay that you have total autonomy over and you can create a brand new person and... Yeah. Yeah? The interaction with the others, you know, with the writer, with the director...

to try to like pour something into a mold and come up with something interesting together. Yeah. It's, it's, and look, I'm not saying that doesn't happen when people do classical stuff. You strike me as somebody who's, who's definitely has a very specific, uh, idea or plan about the way in which you're going to play a character. Um,

And yet you have worked with some of the greatest directors of our time that are famous for having a very specific idea or plan about the way in which they're going to make their film. Um,

You're asking if you're getting to, did you clash with all these directors? That's not the way I would have phrased it. But my question is, was that a calculated risk that you were taking? Or were you excited to work for them and their films? I'm assuming it's Death to Smoochie that's...

But these directors are the best at what they do and might not be that flexible and accommodate your cast. Actually, I think you... I mean, tell me if you relate to this. I bet you do. There are some people...

a Spike Lee, a David Fincher, you know, Wes Anderson, the specificity of the way they do it is so liberating. Like to me, it's so great to just, and I'm not saying it's puppetry. I'm not saying they're like not looking for you to bring an inflection or, you know, whatever. But I think that when you,

in film anyway, when someone's in such command of the style that they're going to work in and you can just fit into it. You like that. Yeah, I find that really liberating. Was Primal Fear your first film? I auditioned for it.

Not you, Sean. We've got Edward Norton on the show today. But I did. Yeah, it was. It was. And I think I might have passed Sean in the lobby of the Gulf and Western building in New York. You remember because he... He told that once on the show. Did you? I did. Yeah, I remember that. Did you really? Oh, you actually did? I did. I got like two or three callbacks. I was in Chicago. I was like 22 years old. I'm still waiting to hear him.

I remember we were talking to Matt Damon was on the show and he referenced you and that part. Yeah, it's amazing. You were incredible in that. Yeah, for sure. Oh, my God. But Matt tells a story about how he and Ben, before they wrote, whatchamacallit? Good Will Hunting.

Good Will Hunting, yeah. That was like, well, there's only one primal fear part in a generation and Edward just got it. So we better start writing. We got to write something for us to do. Well, that's good. Yeah. It was a big deal. I remember I actually helped a casting director in New York as they were doing an open casting for it. And I was like, can I read? No, no, no. Why don't you just help us?

and we're not interested in seeing you. And I was like, this is great. Well, this is fantastic for my ego, but yeah. You're reading the part of Carol, and you're cueing in. They asked you to read for the Connie Britton role. Yeah, they did. No, I asked to. I asked to. The, um...

It is a compliment because they saw you as too masculine to be a stuttering altar boy who gets raped. They were like, no one would buy it. No one would buy this guy as a victim.

Now, was your interest in, I apologize for being all over the place. I'm a disaster. But was your interest in philanthropy and business and investments and stuff like that, was that always a part of kind of who you are and yeah? Yeah, those are different. Within those categories, I'd say my family's been very involved in kind of, you know, I want to say philanthropic. Their work is, my dad's a great conservationist.

advocate, attorney. He's a phenomenal leader in the conservation and land conservation movement. You know, my grandfather was a famous developer but was involved in affordable housing very deeply and my mother was in education reform. So I did, I grew up in a world of people swirling around me who were doing all kinds of like

you know, mission-driven kind of cause-related work that was very passionate and very inspiring. The funny thing is a lot of that sounds, you know, noble when you say it a certain way, but the truth is the thing that was coolest about my family was they were just all having a ball. My dad loved and still loves, he's 80, the work he did. You know, he was inspired by like John Muir and

And Ed Abbey and Aldo Leopold and like all these, you know, these great... Jorge Squinting. The great American conservation kind of warriors, David Brower. And he was like, he wanted to, you know, he wanted to be outside. He wanted to be fighting for these like great places and in them and...

When we were kids, it was just like the work my dad did just seemed like the ultimate fun. And as you started to accrue capital and influence, it was natural for you to say, well, let me channel some of that towards, let's shine some of the light on these issues. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I always found that work, the stuff I've done working on conservation-related stuff, environmental work, I find it very adventurous. I think it's, you know, it's, I mean, it's fun to play people in this weird environment

gig we do but it's also fun to like actually get out and really help the world live a life yeah Sean one time hired a private jet to bring milkshakes back from Chicago on their own holy shit so what's the name of that place what's the issue Portillo's Portillo's yeah

That's a joke. While we're there, while we're on, you know, charities that deserve some attention, if you had a free billion dollars that you found in your pocket, you have to channel it somewhere. Well, these aren't charities. These are causes. These are... No, but that would not be difficult for me. I've spent...

Where would you put it? You got to put it one place. One place. Peel off a hondo for me. Don't be a dick. Peel off a hondo. Where do you think it most be used today as opposed to last year or in 10 years? I guess, you know, without getting too into the weeds, I think global conservation and environmental protection that's gone from sort of

this idea of preservation through defense, you know, like putting lines around places and protecting them and creating and protecting areas to people. I'd say there's a more sophisticated understanding now than there was even when I was in college that, you know, these complex systems wrap the world and you really can't like

You basically have to bring the way that 8 billion people are living in line with ecological sustainability. You can't separate our economies from it. So to me, the most exciting thing that's happening now is that I think people are really coming to understand that

that you've got to value nature and natural systems within our economic framework. And that when you price it the right way, when you understand that air and water and biodiversities, all these things actually aren't free, you can build new, very interesting models of, you know, you can have the poor people in the planet who live on the front lines of the places that we're degrading. You've got to come up with better economic outcomes for people from sustainably managing nature.

like the planet, than trashing it. And that's what I think is most interesting today is that we're... We can't wall ourselves off and then continue to live in this same manner that we have to accept where we live and change the way that we live and our attitudes and our perspectives towards the environment in which we live. And does some of that also still include reclamation of various lands and that's...

or is that not as worthy? Oh, no, for sure. But I think with a different understanding, I think of which degradations hurt us the most and what kinds of restorations actually deliver value. You know, we're all friends with Dax. I don't know if you happened to hear this one interview he did recently with this guy named George Monbiot. It's, you know, in his thing. But it is, if I've heard one person recently articulate these things

macro dynamics absolutely brilliantly that interview is anyone who's interested in just sort of where what was his name again dax shepherd i don't know if i'm pronouncing yeah you know him actually what's that short for he's he's i've always wondered that's a million you've always it's just dax we'll be right back back to the show

Now, I want to shift gears. I want to talk about one of my favorite... There have been a few times over the years where I've watched people on Late Night Show and tell a great story. One of my favorite stories that I've repeated many times is you on Letterman.

describing working on the score with two of your idols. It's one of my favorite stories. Please tell it. I don't know it. And it's a little fuzzy because it was a few years ago. It was about 20 years ago. A few. Yeah. But do you remember telling Dave that story? You know what is the only... The ego narrows what you remember. And of course, what I remember in that is...

them maybe and Letterman goes, you are a regular Rich Little, my friend. He compared me to Rich Little. Rich Little, which was a high compliment. Yeah, I mean, but long before everybody was doing, you know, Matt McConaughey and their imitations, Rich Little was the guy, right? He was the guy. He was amazing. He was the impersonation guy. Also Canadian. But it was a great... He was? He was.

It was a good pull anyway. So if you don't remember it, I'm going to do it so that you don't have to, which was, unless you do remember it. No, of course I remember. I would like to hear it if you'd like to tell it. You were describing working with two of your, you know, of course acting sort of idols, if you will. Yes. Well, it was Marlon Brando's last movie. I had known him prior to doing it.

Robert De Niro kind of pulled him and me into this film. He wanted to do it, and he was the one who sort of recruited... I credit him with the idea that it would be interesting for the three of us to line up in this kind of multi-generational heist thing. Yeah.

I think that Bob was getting a really big paycheck and he didn't want it to fall apart also. And he was thinking like, how can I hold it together with people I like and blah, blah. And anyway, he pulled us all together and it was the kind of thing I would have really done just for the poster. You know, I mean, you really like, like the whole idea that it would say, you know,

Brando, De Niro, Affleck would have really, you know, I would have been on the show saying, why did I let that one get away? You know what I mean? There's only one of them. And they had never done a movie together, the Godfather movies, but they weren't in the same scenes. So it was kind of like, you know, I need to get on that set. Yeah.

just for the story. And then it was really great. It actually was, even though it was kind of a genre movie and it had its formulaic qualities, I did actually think they were both really great. And Marlon had this idea that was not in the script that he used to, you know, he got a lot of flack from people for being a little bit of an anarchist or being things. And I didn't actually think it was warranted. I thought that

Marlon would... If he thought you were going to venerate him, if he thought you were going to be one of those, you know, kind of gooey-eyed... Oh, I'm talking to Marlon Brando. He would really stick a fork in you and he didn't like it. He wanted to... Well, he sure liked to stick forks in things. We know that. Yeah. Good. That was a layup. Thank you. Sorry. But he...

He had this idea that his character was in love with Bob's character. And I think a lot of people honestly kind of went a little gripped, like, oh, God, what is he doing? He's coming up with the idea of this character, this tough heist movie, and suddenly he's acting like Truman Capote and everything. But the thing was is, I'm going to say this, though,

When you have an idea in your head about what something's going to be and someone else does something else, you can tighten up, right? And not pay attention to whether there's really something in that idea. And the truth is...

I think everybody was reacting to, oh, we got Brando De Niro and Edward and these things. It's going to be tough. It's going to be great. And Marlon had this totally different idea, which was that he was in love with Bob. But it's fantastic. It's a fantastic idea. And it is great in the film. You can feel, you feel that the hold in their relationship has been this longstanding unrequited love.

And it's much more, I mean, who's tougher or more stoic than Bob? It's not, what's the value of doubling up on it, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you watch Brando in that movie, it's really, really good what he's doing. He's lighter. He plays a character who's, it adds a whole other layer to the film that wasn't in there, and it's really good. And I thought it was kind of a shame in a way that he didn't.

he kind of got painted with the like, "Oh, he's being disruptive." He's being-- For what? For like proposing that the character might have a thing for Bob? -You know, it's like, "What?" -But you guys had this-- But you have this big scene where the three of you and he's drinking sparkling water. This is the moment that you described. Good memory. God, I didn't even remember. Yes, now I know what you're talking about. Ramlosa sparkling water, by the way.

To be specific. I have a crazy weird memory. She does. So... I think it was Aqua Mineral. Oh, you might be right. Anyway, he... No, now I know what you're talking about. I didn't know what you were talking about. Yes, he... It was the first scene with the three... It was the first scene that we got to do together, the three of us. And...

And I allowed myself a little bit of a moment of, you know, I'm walking with giants, like this is amazing. And in the first take, Marlon is, we're pitching the heist to De Niro. And Marlon has this riff, and then I'm supposed to have a little riff, and then Bob is supposed to have this reaction. So De Niro is, you know, just listening and very stoic and intense.

And Marlon's telling this very flowery story and it's a big tracking shot with all three of us. And they call it and Marlon goes right into it. And he's really terrific. He's funny, he's wry, he's saying this thing and he's talking about how a shipment got hung up in custom because of Asian longhorn beetles or something. And he's saying, you know what happened to us was the fucking bugs.

And he's saying this thing. And he says, Asian longhorn beetles, they got inside the crate. And he starts pouring his water into the glass. He's very fluid and he's terrific in the scene. But I notice that he's

He's very in it. He's looking at De Niro and he's pouring the water down the outside of the glass onto his own linen shirt. And it's pooling on his stomach in this little pool in his linen, a cup in his linen shirt and filling the shirt. And I go to look at De Niro like...

how's he going to react to this? And Bob was falling asleep. He'd been up very late and he was listening, but he was actually starting to nod out. And then someone says, cut, and Bob snaps up and looks at me and he says, was I falling asleep? And I said, I nodded like really hesitantly and he goes, oh, that's a first.

And I was like, one of them is pouring water down his stomach and the other is falling asleep. He's falling asleep. Walking with these, oh God, fuck, that is stuck with me. I have told that story three dozen times. With all of the, I mean, I'm so sort of in awe and humbled by your intelligence, your thoughtfulness. What do you do that's the lowest brow thing you do? Sometimes I, oh.

I mean, like, is it a, you love to listen to shitty disco? Do you watch a crappy reality show? Do you have a sugar addiction? Yeah, I'm always, I have a terrible, I'm terrible with like, I'm like Sean, I drink coffee as an excuse for milk and sugar. That's what I'm saying. Yeah.

See, we bonded, Sean. We bonded. Yeah. Exactly. So, all right. No, no. I don't know. I don't know. You know, it's funny. I just did this. You said you had Rian Johnson on. Yeah, yeah. So I did this Knives Out. Right. Glass Onion coming out. Yep. It's coming out. Can't wait. And he... I mean, you saw what a dry humor. I mean, he... That guy is just... He's so sweet. That guy is really sweet and laconic and laid back, but holy shit, is he funny. Yeah. And he's...

You talk about someone who, you were saying like, what's the low thing you do? But when we were doing that film, you know, sometimes, you know how this is. Sometimes you're doing a thing, right? You're doing a thing and you're like, how low can we go in this? Like how, what level? What's the right level? Because it's really funny, but is it all highbrow funny? Or is some of it slapstick? You know, physical comedy funny? Or are we allowed...

you know, a joke that's down here in... Yeah, the tonal shifts. Yeah, in the shifts. And he just, you know, sometimes, like, you get this feeling that a director's not really sure...

and is willing to take everything. Ryan is like a Swiss clockmaker. He knows exactly what he wants. He knows what level and tone he wants at exact... I was so impressed by his... I would imagine Wes Anderson is a lot like that too because there are moments that are heartbreakingly nuanced in their drama, in their authenticity, in their humanity, but then there's just these huge...

hugely absurd, broad, slapsticky, almost cartoonish, comical moments and they all work in the same world. Yeah. I would imagine, Edward, is Wes Anderson more sort of

Not tonally specific in the sense that he has a... It appears to me that he might be more sort of inclined to have a set idea of tonally exactly how he wants the film to be. He does. I mean, needless to say, the production design, the costumes, it's like to within an inch of it. There's nothing. He'll come in and he will step in and adjust your tie perfectly.

Just so, you know. Right, like he's like, sorry, the Donne racket, that particular model of Donne racket didn't come out until 78, so you can't have it in this shot. It's more, is it the angle he wants you to hold it at? Wow. You know, his precision and his feeling for the visual aesthetic is legendary, and it's everything everyone would think. He is that hands-on and that...

that precise and he cares an enormous amount about those details. And like a lot of people who are like that, when you're in the moment and he seems to be splitting hairs, you can have a moment where you're so confused

Jesus, let's just get on with it. Like, let's get on with it, right? It's all great. But then you can't argue with the total effect, right? You can't argue with the total effect of the final product. And so when we got, it's going back to that thing you were saying earlier. I love working with people like that because when you are a fan going in, when you believe in something,

When you believe that the final result that they consistently deliver is so good that you just want to be inside whatever that process is, you surrender any defensiveness. You surrender self-protection. You surrender. It liberates you because you're in the hands. You're in trust. You're in the state of trust, right? And at the end of the day, if Fincher wants to do it 40 times or 50 or whatever, he's

you find the gear within yourself that is saying, well, this is what this is. This is how he does it. And you love it, right? And Wes will give you, I mean, you know, you can say, oh, no one would give Edward a line reading. Wes gives line readings all the time. Imitating Wes's line readings is a joy. It's a joy to get a line reading from Wes. You know, and...

I mean, you talk about like the Tenenbaums, like he told me one time that, I'm not telling tales out of school, I think Gene Hackman was legendarily tough on people. Yes. Like Fran McDormand told me on Mississippi Burning that he was so mean to Willem Dafoe that she called him Mean Gene. And...

And, you know, look, the guy's Gene Hackman. My view is like be any way you want to be. Just give us that thing, right? Right. But Willem told me when we were doing Motherless Brooklyn, Willem told me that he had been pretty tough on him but that he was telling himself as a young actor, hey, this guy's a grizzled old FBI agent. He's supposed to be tough on me. Don't fold. Like let him lean into it and go with it.

But he said the night before his big monologue, like his biggest monologue in Mississippi Burning, he said Hackman took him out to dinner. And he said he thought, oh, wow, you know, finally he's kind of like, you know, doing things. And he said they were having a drink and not saying anything. He said Hackman looked at him. This is like two weeks from the end of the whole shoot. And he said Hackman looked at him and goes, so is this what you're going with? Oh, my God. Yeah.

No way. You're going to keep doing this right to the end. But anyway, I thought about that because Wes said, one of my favorite moments in Royal Tenenbaums is when Hackman is in the kitchen with Danny Glover and he says, are you making time with my wife Coltrane? And Danny Glover goes, did you just call me Coltrane? And he's like going to get in a fight with him, right? And Wes said that Hackman came in

in a good mood saying, this is a funny scene, you know, it's a good scene, Wes. And Wes said, oh, jeez, thanks, Gene, you know, and he said, just one thing, I think we should change Coltrane to Satchmo. And Wes said, he goes, oh, well...

why? You know why? And he said, well, you and I know what Coltrane is. And it's funny to us, but a lot of people that might be a little things. I think more people know what Satchmo means. It's going to be more accessible to more people. And Wes said, he said, well, the thing is, I like the sound of the word Coltrane. And I think if some people don't know what that means, I'm okay with that. And he said, I wouldn't say it.

It's just our audience, but fuck them, I guess, right? And he's just like in a black mood for the rest of the day. Oh, my God. And I'm like, you know, whenever people say like, oh, you know, so-and-so is difficult or whatever, I'm like, I used to talk about this with Phil Hoffman. I feel like there's like the serious actors of our generation and then there's those guys, you know? And they are just a totally...

It's a totally different breed. I really honestly think a lot of those guys, I've gotten to work with a lot of them. Harvey Keitel a couple times, De Niro a couple times, John Voight, you know, Nick Nolte. Like, you go through experiences with these guys, they are in a different frequency entirely. Like, it's not the language we grew up in. They authentically don't give a shit. No, and also...

I mean, I don't want to say they're weird, but they just, like...

Like when Phil and I were doing... We did two movies back-to-back, and we did The 25th Hour with Spike Lee. We were working on that. Great film. And, you know, Phil was himself, like, you know, a curmudgeonly dude sometimes. I really loved him, but he could be prickly and stuff. And we were talking, and he... We were talking about he'd worked with De Niro, and he was like, does it make you... Don't you just feel like a square with these guys? And for Phil to say anyone makes him feel like a square...

Like, there's just something different about those guys and the way they work and how weird they can be. They're so not. Some of them are just not. They're kind of like not of us. No. Yeah. You're so great at so many things, clearly, as we've covered here. What would people be surprised at that you're terrible at?

What do you do? Like, I can't dance or I don't even sing in the shower. I wish I... I have no facility for drawing. I've always wanted... You know, like when I draw storyboards, it's the most embarrassing thing in the world. They're useless. You can't draw depth, right? I finally ended up with these apps. I figured out that if I wanted to go around in New York and storyboard a car chase or something like that, I would take pictures of all the angles

And then in my childish scrawl, like try to draw the shape of a car and a general arrow direction on it. And it's like I'm so envious. I'm so envious of people who can – like I would draw a box with a circle next to it and say that's a car and then draw an arrow and be unable to have the arrow stay on the line of the street. What about the opposite? What would people be really amazed that you're fantastic at?

A maze that I'm good at? Yeah, like are you musical at all? You play anything? I play guitar, but I'm not amazing. I've been a pilot for a long time. I'm a pretty good pilot. That qualifies. I think I knew that. I love surfing. Surfing's like my later in life addiction. Really? Like I'm okay at now, but I really wish I was better. You know, if there's a thing that haunts my dreams that I really wish I was better at.

that I'm trying to get better at and that I love, like, in an addictive way. Well, you've also got that great thing where you-- when you and Pitt did Fight Club, forever people, when they think about you without your shirt on, they think of you as super ripped. So you kind of get-- that kind of lives forever, that image.

You understand that Brad is Brad and I'm me, right? Jason's crying right now. Jason is just thinking about... I will never be stuck with that reputation. How much less do I have to eat? I'm going to say something. That's not correct because the first time we met, the first time we really hung out, we went to dinner. Took your shirts off? On Sunset Boulevard. And you were in the middle of doing... You were the first person I knew who did the clean diet. Wow.

Do you remember? Oh, my God. That is going back a bit. You and Amanda had done the clean diet, and you'd been on it for like a while. Was I small? And we walked in, and you walked up to the table, and I went, oh, my God, this guy is chiseled. Yeah. And he looks chiseled, and he looks like he has the body of a college athlete.

And I was like, Jason Bateman, is that fit? Well, now he's chiseled, but he has the body of like an old man who's in hospice. Right, like a veal. Because if you do it too long... It all becomes porridge. Because he's been on that very, you know, he's been on a version of that diet for 20 years now. Yeah, just keeping myself in pleasure. But that was at the start. It's because I've got an enormous man inside of me waiting to get out.

You know, I just have to keep my eye on the ball. I'm just saying I was actually impressed by your... Thank you. Well, there you go. You should see me now. I had an enormous man inside of me and I was okay with it for a while. So listen, there's Sean's ending with a beautiful... I'm just saying. Sean will get a softball hard too. No, it's been delightful. Do you have anything, guys? It's been delightful. What a delight to talk to you after all these years. I could ask you questions about every single movie that I love that you've been in, but

I know. Let's just go have dinner. The four of us will go eat. Yeah, we should. I know. And thank you for spending all this time with us, please. Yeah, it was a delight. Thanks for having me on. Absolutely. Great to meet you. Catch you guys soon. All right, Edward. See you, pal. Thanks, bud. Bye. Oh, man, that was...

What a thoughtful, pleasant, normal-- Intelligent. --incredibly talented man. Yeah, he brings a lot. I didn't know he had all that going on, Jay. I didn't know the philanthropy and the investments and the-- I'm surprised, Sean, that you didn't ask him how much. I'm surprised he didn't say, "Give me a number," 'cause usually you go, "Give me a number." How much you got? How much you got? How much you got? How much you got?

If we did have dinner together, Sean would probably open with that. Would you? Absolutely. Nice to see you again. While we're still looking at the menu. Yeah. How much did you make off of Uber? What's going on? How much? Give me the number. By the way, it's what everybody wants to know. You know who else has been real savvy with all that stuff is Ashton Kutcher. Ah.

Yes. Super sad. Thanks for the breaking news. That one I knew. That's well known. That one I know. I didn't know about. I didn't know about Edward either. Yeah. No, these guys, they've got their finger on the pulse. By the way, and all his stories, I love how open he is about the stories about each job and like the actors, those are so funny. Right. Yeah. So funny. The films and the people that he's worked with, just, yeah, stunning. Yeah.

And maybe we could all have dinner, and Will, you could invite your Canadian friend that you're friends with. What's his name? Mike Binder! Oh, beautiful. Beautiful. Smart. Less. Smart. Less. Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Michael Grant Terry, Rob Armjarv, and Bennett Barbicoe.

Smart Less. If you like Smart Less, you can listen early and add free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.