"Anderson Cooper"
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Hello, I'm Sean Hayes. I'm an actor. Special skills include being able to bounce a tennis ball on a racket 153 consecutive times. Another special skill is picking my nose without people watching or people knowing. Shit. Welcome to SmartList! SmartList.

Sean, I don't think I've ever seen you grumpy, ever.

Oh, yeah. Well, live with me for a couple days. Oh, challenge much? But what gets you grumpy? I mean, I guess only... I guess Scotty would be the answer to that. That's what gets you grumpy. That's why I haven't seen it, huh? Sometimes Scotty makes me grumpy. Well, look, when you live with somebody, right, doesn't Amanda make you grumpy? Everybody... Every spouse makes them...

Why would you ask that question? And you make her grumpy and we all make each other grumpy. It is. You know, actually, Amanda and I had a nice talk about that yesterday. Yeah, basically like, well, it's a choice. It's a real choice. Like, it's pretty easy to stay grumpy, make your partner grumpy, and just live in grumpiness. It is. It's light lifting. Yeah. But...

Well, I always say you have to fall in respect with somebody not in love with them because if you don't respect Have you thought about making it on t-shirts or something like or even a bumper sticker? Yeah, you got everything like a center like up and you know what you know, you know our friend Josh Otlin said to me the other day Willie what's he passed on a sage saying You'll never treat anyone better than you treat yourself. I

Oh, so, you know, well, here's what, here's something Scott and I argued about yesterday. We, he was talking about having a meeting with this person for a potential gig. Cause he's a composer. He writes music.

And so I was like, I jumped all over him about, this is what you got to do. You got to talk to him like this. And when you bring your stuff, make sure you show him this music that you did and then this music. But it's got to be in this order because it grows, see, from the ballads to the more complicated. I'm already mad at you. He looks at me like he's going to fucking kill me. Right. Like, hey, Hollywood, how about I just take a nice meeting? I've been doing well just by myself. And I was like, okay. And so...

And I go, I'm just here to help. See you, loser. Is that what she said to him? Kicked him in the ass? And then he got the job. But I said, I'm only trying to help you. Of course you are. I know that, but sometimes you don't hear the way you hear yourself. So, Sean, that's a great point. I think that for me, one of the things that I notice and it's taken me a long time is tone. And sometimes people misinterpret my tone and I get very...

I get very sort of fired up about stuff or whatever. And they, this is everybody. This is sort of friends, kids, um, partners, whatever. But I live for when you get fired up. I,

I love that. But I actually don't mean it. I think that what happens is people misinterpret it. Anyway. I tend to get insincerely passionate about things too. But also that heavy brow of mine at 53, we've talked about this. I look pretty pissed off just when listening. Yeah.

Your brow is now where your eyes are. Yeah, my bad mood is just gravity. That's all that is. Don't worry. Gang, I got a real peach for us today. Today's guest...

This fella is smart and handsome. He's famous, but private. An academic, but disarming. He's got a degree from Yale. His own show. Who doesn't? Couple kids. 19 Emmys. What? Yeah. He's worked in over 40 countries. He's written three books, all of them bestsellers. And he's just launched a podcast. Because we need more. We needed more, and that's why we got into it. Yeah.

We're going to have to ask him what stimulant he's addicted to to get all this done and why he's agreed to do our show. I'm a big, big longtime fan and super excited to welcome Anderson Cooper.

Oh, my. Come on in, Anderson. Mr. Anderson Cooper. Yeah. How's it going? Wait, 19 Emmys? 19 Emmys? You know, they're news Emmys, though, so it's not real. Sure. Still gold. Hey, nobody cares. There's not a ceremony. No, no, no. Yes, there is. Yes, there is.

I remember visiting you in your office. Yeah, Sean, I think you're the only, in this trio, the only person I've actually met. But I'm intimidated. I'm a huge admirer of everybody here. I love your podcast. I'm the least successful Cooper ever on your podcast, by the way.

Where do we book DB? Hey, what I just your level of accomplishments are just they're pretty stunning and I'm just gonna go start right on question 11. By the way, am I the only one with that I had? Yeah. We told you to have access to one. You had time to get one when I asked you to. I mean, I got this.

That'll work. Okay, that's good. Listener, he's just put on a war correspondent helmet. This is the first person who's been embedded with Smartless.

I'm going to get to that. By the way, Jason, did you just play golf? I mean, is this your street continuing? I don't play golf. Do you want to see my shorts? Last I heard, you were on like every day for the last 101 days or something. Yeah, I'm trying to catch up a little bit. Willie's going to jump into the hole with me on Tuesday. I beg your pardon? I'm back. Yeah, I'm back Tuesday. No, I'm back Saturday. There's a better way to say that. I know. There's a much better way. Okay.

Wait, but- No, here comes my question. What about all these accomplishments? We're so excited you're here. I mean, this is an easy but tough question. What's left? What do you want to do, Anderson? Tell me what the goal is. You just jumped to the end? I know. Honestly, yeah. I'm working on- The end of the interview. I'm working on an ice show.

-Yeah. -You're gonna go ice skating? Yeah, no, it's gonna be like a-- it's like an Anderson on Ice kind of thing. Kind of a review of my life, but on ice. -Okay. -Shaken, not stirred. It's the same costume designer as Shrek on ice. -Yeah. -You're just gonna use all those same costumes. Someone plays my mom and my dad, my dead brother. You know, it's gonna be really good. -It's gonna be touching and funny. -Listen, I have some experience. I have a lot of experience with ice productions, so, you know, just let me know.

I played a figure skater. No, but Willie knows his way around an ice rink. He does, sure. He's got a real power dumper on him, and he can get after it. What's a power dumper? Power dumper's what skaters get. It's a pro dumper. Oh, you mean like a big butt? No, pro dumper. It's a pro dumper. Yeah, it's a shelf. It's called a pro dumper. That's what hockey guys have. We have pro dumper. Like muscle ass. Like a big muscle ass.

Oh, thank you, Sean, for putting it into terms I can understand. Yeah. So, all right. So you're not going to give me an honest answer because to do that would be, what was it? Well, you're, you're too humble to give me a real answer about what, like what's left. What is next? What, what would you, what is there, what is there left for you to do? I mean, you know, 360 is enough, but you're also on 60 minutes for,

God's sake. Like, you're at the pinnacle of any journalistic goal. I'm Leslie Stahl. I'm Anderson Cooper. Every Sunday. Like, what else would you want? And you've written books. You know, my dad died at 50, and I always expected to die at 50, so I planned my whole life

in an accelerated version of I'm going to die at 50, so I need to get everything in by then. Can I be honest with you? None of us thought you were going to make it past 50. We all lost. So when I hit 51, I was like, what the fuck do I do now? I don't have a plan. And so I have been asking myself that question for the last couple of years. And I have kids now, and that is the greatest thing I've ever done. And so that's a whole...

That's my future, and I love-- I like what I do. I mean, I love, you know, I love telling other people's stories, so... Exactly. I mean, I have no actual skills, so there's nothing else I can do. Oh, please. -Yeah. -You're brilliant. You're brilliant. You've got your degree in political science. You're actually succeeding in something you studied. Plus, you get to spend one night a year on TV with Andy Cohen, which is a skill in and of itself. I mean, what a handful that guy is. Jesus Christ.

Hey, Will, do you know Andy? I do know Andy. I do know Andy. Yeah, no, no, no. I've known Andy for a long time. I would like to know Andy. He and I were set up on a blind date like 25 years ago. No way. Were you really? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. How'd that go? Oh, we never had it because he called me. He was a producer at CBS News at the time on their morning show. And people were like, oh, you're gay and you're both in news, so you should meet. And anyway, he called me up to set up the date.

And within 30 seconds, I knew I was never going on a date with Andy Cohen because he violated like every one of my rules. The biggest one being he mentioned my mom within the first 30 seconds of the boy. And he now admits he just wanted to date the Vanderbilt boy. - Sure, that was so gauche. - Wait a second. - So for my sister, your mom is Gloria Vanderbilt. - This is killing me. That is so on brand for Andy. It's so amazing. - How did he bring it up? - Oh, he was just like, "You're Gloria Vanderbilt's son." I mean, he's not subtle.

Hey, did you guys ever make a pact that, like, if he's single by a certain age and you're single by a certain age, sure, let's just get together and... No, no. ...combine families? Uh-uh. All right. No, it's not possible. Like, we're really close friends. I mean, I love him, but that would not work. Yeah, yeah. I love him. By the way, Sean, you said that, and Andy's such a great guy. I love him. He's so profoundly funny to me. He makes me... He really cracks me up. Why don't you bring him on the show, Arnett? Well, just because I can't... I don't know. It's just a lot. But...

No, no, I'm kidding. I love them. I am going to have them in the show. But it's funny, Sean, you bring up the thing about, hey, we make a pact. You know when people say that all the time, like so-and-so, we made a pact that if we weren't married, and I always call it like, that's just bullshit. That's like some weird bullshit old thing that people do. Has anyone ever done that? No, nobody's ever done it, and they all talk about it in this way that's really stupid and nostalgic. Oh, thank you. And just full of BS. All right, we'll be right back.

We take commercials, right? We do commercials on the show. We don't, not anymore. I like the commercials you guys do. So sweet. Was that some of that passion often misinterpreted for hostility? Yeah, by the way, I don't really care about it. All right, somebody asked him a question. I got to go to my question list. Oh, yeah, no. So when I walked into your office, I don't know, this is like three years ago, I flew from...

LA to New York to CNN to do three commercials in one day and then flew home. And I stopped and I was like running on fumes. I ran into your office and I think I made a fool out of myself. I was like, Anderson, what's going on? Got too many, do you have any Emmys down in the back? And she's got like 19 Emmys in the back. And I made like joke, joke, joke. And then I left. You're probably like, how did you describe that encounter, Anderson, to other people? It was like the greatest thing that had happened to me for like the month. That was the first time we met. Come on. And then I did a little interview with you for, uh,

the documentary you were working on. Yeah, that's right. Thank you for that. Anderson, tell me how journalism got started with you. Why'd you get excited about it and at what age? I, you know, I watched a lot of news as a kid growing up. I was a total nerd and I was interested in how stories are told. My dad was a writer and my mom wrote. And so, yeah, we didn't... Who's your mom? Uh,

Nice. Nice. Will's trying to date you. And I watched news, like, while eating dinner, because, you know, it was better than actually talking to anybody. And so... But I never really thought I would do it, and I went to college and was... I actually interned at the CIA, and I decided not to do that. What? And I...

-He knew we were gonna ask about that. -All the stuff I was interested in was going overseas and experiencing stuff. And so, yeah, I made a fake-- I had a friend make a fake press pass for me, and I borrowed a camera and I started going to wars. -No way. -That's so crazy. -Really? -No way. What was fascinating about that to you? Like, I always find that fascinating, like, just from a viewer's, like, why do they have to stand in the war zone? Can't they just tell us about it from somewhere safe?

Actually, no. You do... I mean, there's nothing... Nothing can compare to actually being in a place. But also, like, when they're standing in the middle of a hurricane. Forget the war. But we're standing in the middle of a hurricane. You don't have to do that. We can just see that it's bad outside. You know, it's funny. When news organizations, when a big news story breaks and you go, and I've seen you at so many... They've been... Hurricanes or big wars or whatever. You've done it all. We've all seen you. America, the world has seen you there. But

But it is funny when some big event happens, the race for news people to get on site is kind of like when someone famous dies and go to Wikipedia to see who writes it on their page first. It's like this crazy race. Who's fastest to make it about them? Well, no, not about them. I actually mean more like just to get there. Like I'm always surprised. On the scene. Yeah, I can't believe it. So that's my follow-up question is what happens –

Russia invades Ukraine, let's say, or something of that. How quickly does that decision get made? Like you're, I don't know, you're at the gym, you might not even be at work or you're with your family and then all of a sudden you're, is it 30 seconds and you're out the door? Yeah.

- Basically, yeah. I mean, I have like a go bag and I keep my passport with me at all times. - Like a bat signal, but it's the Cooper signal. - What's in the go bag? - Yeah, what is it? - How many pairs of underwear? - Like two, underwear is not important. - Hey, there he is. - Not fair. - Hey, man.

I'm taking, bro. Come on. So it's just two pair. It's just two pair? Yeah, basically. Do you really have something? Are you prepared to go in? I'll tell you, there's like a pair of boots, steel-toed boots, chairs, you know, like...

It's mostly like food supplies and like technical stuff. The clothes are like, you know, there's like two pairs, two dark t-shirts so you can sweat and not see it on camera. But really, truly, are you really prepared to go at like any moment? Like do you really have a bag type of thing ready? I do, yeah. He's just got a go bag. Sean's got a go bag. It's got two pounds of Skittles and 50 little small things of soy sauce. Hey, um...

Anderson, do you have a dop kit in there? By the way, we're going to ask you to follow up if you know where dop kit came from. But do you have a dop kit in there? A dob kit? What is a dop kit? Dop kit. That's not what people call it, Will. They do call it a dop kit. It's a toiletry bag. It's a toiletry bag. It's not a toiletry bag. It's called a dop kit. No, I don't. I feel like a toiletry bag is a step of adulthood like galoshes or an umbrella, which I'm not ready to commit to.

Well, what do you call it? I'm not that organized. You don't have a, like, what you call a toiletry bag? I don't have a bag. I just put stuff in, like, it's all free-floating in my bag. In a CVS bag? Hang on. Hang on a second. You got your tooth... Wait a minute. It's messy. Your toothbrush is banging around with the steel toes? Yeah.

That's outrageous. This is a disaster. Okay, in all honesty, there's a pocket in the duffel bag that I put all that stuff in, but it's all just floating around in that pocket. Yeah. We'll be right back. And now, back to the show.

- So none of that scares the shit out of you? Like what is the draw? What is the thing inside of you that's like, - Yeah, of course it's scary. - I gotta get to the middle of where everybody's shooting guns and blowing up bombs. - It comes from a really healthy place, I'll tell you that. Honestly, the honest answer, I mean, I don't wanna bring it down, but yeah, my dad died when I was a kid. My brother died by suicide when I was 21, he was 23. And I wanted to go places where

the language of loss was spoken, where when you are in grief and dealing with loss and don't really know how to deal with it, and you want to be around other people who are facing it and living through it, and where...

It's not, where it's something people talk about and are living in, it's very real. Here, people don't talk about that stuff and it makes it worse if you're suffering. - Did you know that before you went or is this something that in retrospect you kind of understand better? - No, I was pretty aware. I mean, I didn't connect all the dots initially. I just had this impulse of like, you know, I'm drawn to,

And and mostly places where people are suffering that wasn't getting a lot of attention that was sort of you know the first place I went was Burma I snuck into Burma and hooked up with some students fighting the Burmese government in the jungles and I shot a story of them and Then I ended up in Somalia in the early days of famine before the US got there and the whole Black Hawk down thing happened it was in August of 92 and I was just drawn to places where

Yeah, where people were suffering and where I, I mean, I wanted to tell their story. I wanted other people to know about it, but I also wanted to learn how to survive. Did it heal you? I don't know about healing, but I learned I could survive and I learned how to survive from a lot of people I met. And I learned a lot about myself and a lot about other people and the power of people to get through the worst things that have ever happened to them. Things which I don't think I could personally survive without.

You know, people who've had horrific things done to them and every day get up and take care of their children and hold their head up high and in the face of it. And to that point, you touched on this a little bit, like what is that culture shock from going to these other countries and then coming back to the United States where people are like,

you know, the most mundane issues. Like, I mean, we have real issues here, but what I'm saying compared to other countries. Yeah, I actually lived in LA when I first started. I was working for this thing called Channel One. It was seen in schools throughout America in the early 90s, and it was in about half the schools in America, and it was a 12-minute daily newscast, and I was like their foreign correspondent person. And, uh,

I would come back to LA, which is where it was based, at Raleigh Studios, weirdly enough. And I just remember, I was briefly in Rwanda during the genocide, and I'd gone from the elections in South Africa for Mandela, which was incredible, to this horrific genocide in Rwanda. And I came back to LA, and...

I just felt like I couldn't speak the same language as people, and all I wanted to do was kind of just get on a plane and go somewhere else again. Well, because it's real, I mean, there's...

it must feel very real or to some degree more real than what's going on. I mean, you're there dealing with this stuff and Sean's making a Bud Light commercial, you know, back in the 90s. I mean, honestly, sorry, Sean, and you should be ashamed of yourself. It is shameful. And I'm sure you are riddled with shame. Oh, yeah. But in truth, though, I mean, that's a very... For a young man who's trying to process a lot of stuff, that's very, very heavy. And in a lot of ways,

You know what you're doing. You're subjecting yourself to it. And you also know that you're doing it at the same time. Like there must have been a couple, you're kind of of two minds while it's happening. Yes? No? No, that's 100%. And yeah, it makes regular life seem very dull. And it's hard to return back to a regular life with that. All you want to do is kind of...

go back out. But when you're out, you're miserable and lonely and sad and it's horrific stuff around you. And people are, you know, you're meeting people who are stuck in these situations and you're going to leave. And that, that brings with it, it's all, it's its own sort of weirdness. Were there, were there any complications or concerns about going into those areas? Uh, given the family that you were coming from, where did you get any resistance from that

from your family or lawyers or somebody like, hey, Anderson, hold on a second. You get kidnapped in this area? Like, there's... I mean, seriously. No. No, my mom was... My mom was actually amazingly supportive of it. I mean, you know, she was...

and she was just her and I at that point, and she was really cool about it. I mean, I sort of lied to her a lot early on. I'd be like, oh, yeah, no, it's not so bad. It's not so bad like you see on TV. You don't exaggerate. Yeah.

I was in Egypt during the revolution against Mubarak and got attacked and I called my mom that morning and I was like, no, I'm just gonna stay by the pool today and hang out and of course, there was no pool and I would not be staying by it. - Wait, Anderson, can we go to Egypt? Is it safe?

- You too, sure. I mean, I don't know, it's a little late, but you can go. - Is Scotty gonna be good with that? - Yeah, Scotty wants to go really, we wanna go really bad. - Oh, got it. - I mean, you know, it's not great for the gays, I gotta tell you. - I know, that's what I heard, that's what I heard. - Yeah, I mean, there's a lot, well, I don't wanna, I mean. - So we'll just call each other roommate. - Yeah. - Is that right? - I mean, you, I don't know, you're well-known, but I mean, that brings with it its own thing, like, you know, like, yeah, I'm not sure, you're a very well-known gay person. - Can you go?

You know, I got beat up there, so I haven't been back since I got beat up. That's a great line of questioning, Sean. Hey, Anderson. By the way, triple down. I just want to visit the pyramids, that's all. Now, Anderson, the stuff you've seen over there, being all brave as you are, witnessing all of this stuff, do you have a certain...

that you've developed to sort of shed all those horrible things that could really wreck some folks as far as visuals and memories and PTSD. And you've really been in a lot of tough spots. I don't. I don't think you should. Like, I think the job is to sort of bear witness to stuff. And I think if you don't allow yourself to be moved by it and changed by it, and if you're like this cold observer person

With the distance, you're not doing justice to the people who are there. And I think you need to expose yourself to it all. And so, yeah. Especially if your job is to relay that story to other folks. Yeah, totally. To Jason's point, though, like, don't you... I mean, all of that stuff that is now that you can't unsee, that you've seen all these horrible things in the world, how does that affect...

you and your family now going forward? Like, what is one of the greatest things you learned in your journalism, you know, abroad that you now apply to your family and/or what do you try to withhold from your family, your kids? - I mean, I think it shows you

to embrace the beautiful moments that are possible in one's life and the extraordinary, I mean, the fact that I, as a gay man, can have children in this country. Yeah, it's amazing. We can marry if we want to. I'm not married, but you appreciate all the more what there is and you appreciate the...

the kind of the moments of beauty and joy and love that you do actually find. - Yeah, I love that. - So then as a follow-up, and you see all this, we talk about all this horrible stuff that you've seen in your journalistic career overseas or whatever, traumatic things, et cetera, and then you're able to appreciate the fact that you have these freedoms that you enjoy as an American here in America.

Are you worried about now, conversely, about seeing horrible things in this country? And we've all sort of been able to bear witness to a lot of a pretty darkened shift that seems rather dark as a newer American than the three of you that I find to be quite troubling and dark. And you talk about the freedom as a gay man to have kids and to be married if you choose.

We are entering a very dark age, and as a newsman, you've been right on the front line of it. Yeah, look, I mean, I'm optimistic about this country, and I'm optimistic about the people in this country, and I think we're going through a very strange time, but I choose to...

I choose to believe the best in people. - Me too. - And I think we go, we tack left, we tack right, but we've moved forward as a country and I hope that continues. - Yeah. - But I do think people are capable of, I think we're all capable of anything. I think we have no idea, you have no idea what happens when the electricity goes out

and there's no windows in your building anymore, and the wind is whipping through, and it's the winter, and you can't feed your kids, and you can't get them milk. And, you know, people are capable of anything. And I've seen that, and that worries me. I don't mean left or right. I just mean in general, in terms of people. There's a sort of a sentiment that feels like it's very...

There are some, there is a kind of a vibe that's nerve wracking. I'll just put it that way. Yeah, but I'm with Anderson. I'm sure you guys are too. There's an optimism that is sort of impossible not to feel when you just think of the totality of this country and all the things that we've been through before. This is not the first time we've gone through real growing pains and border pushing, you know, and...

I think we'll land just fine, I hope. And by the way, I've seen plenty of places that have fallen apart and societies that have collapsed. I mean, that's what interested me initially in going to places like that. And, you know, it is horrible. And nobody, I mean, whatever rhetoric people are saying here, the reality of that, if they actually see it, they will not be...

for any kind of civil war. I mean, it is... What happens is a horrible, horrible thing. Right, right, right. What are these... You know, like, going back to the thing where you, like, have to drop everything, you have to leave at the drop of a hat and pack and go to all these places. Don't you have to get, like, clearance and all this stuff? And everybody in the world knows who you are and they know that you're gay. So what about these countries where you have to go to report where they're like, oh, God, the gay guy from that channel's coming and he's got clearance, we gotta let him in. You know, is that...

Do you ever? - Sometimes, I mean, clearance is like visas sometime in some places, but for the most part, you just get on a plane and go and figure it out once you get there. And yeah, I mean, initially I was traveling all by myself, to Jason's point earlier, and that was, you know,

ridiculously risky and stupid in a lot of places I was going. You know, in some places we have security, but it's, you know, it's a concern. I mean, it's definitely changed the security situation when I'm on the ground in places. The CNN, thankfully, is very cognizant of that. But for the most part, you know, you...

You have to go you want I mean I want to go still and you have to go and that's just part of the job Yeah, so with your with your incredible position at CNN and at 60 minutes you have the opportunity I'm sure to Decide what stories you're going to do things that that are interesting to you that you might stumble upon or told about how do you decide? Which show to do the story for how does that work?

I mean, for the most part, you know, 60 Minutes is... I do, like, 10 stories a year. The average correspondent does 20, so I do, like, a half load as... And...

Yeah, it's just stuff that interests me. And some of it is producers suggesting it. Other times it's... I did a profile of Tony Bennett, who was having his final concerts with Lady Gaga. Yeah, that was great. And his family let us spend the months before the concert leading up to it with Tony in his apartment and going through what he's going through. And so, I mean, that was... You know, the chance to do that is just incredible. I got to...

I had a piece on recently about this artist Laurie Anderson, who I've loved since I was a teenager. She came out with the song "Oh Superman" and she's just cool. She's 75 and a lot of people don't know who she is. And so it's so cool to be able to be like, you know, Laurie Anderson's really interesting. Let's do a story. And 60 Minutes is like, yeah, okay, sure. And so it doesn't have to be someone who has a movie or out. It can just be somebody who's kind of interesting. And that's amazing. - I love that. - What happens if you get yourself a guest either on 60 Minutes or on 360

And they're just not really giving you the answers that you either want to hear or that you know are correct. I hate the burning fire of a thousand songs. But you're so...

you're a good dude, that you can just, you can see it. And so being confrontational is something that I'm sure you're not that comfortable with, but it is part of your job. How do you reconcile those two things? - Well, I mean, if someone's just not a good guest, I'm not gonna be confrontational with them because they're not a good guest. Although I do know a producer once,

A producer of 60 Minutes once, I was with him in Niger, and it was like a malnutrition crisis, and we had flown all the way there, and we're doing this story about this thing called Plumpy Nut, which is saving the lives of thousands, hundreds of thousands of kids over the years.

Anyway, we go and we interview this doctor and it's just not going well. And like, we've come all this way and like, we thought she was the character, but it's just not going well. And I try everything I can do. I, you know, all the little interviewing techniques, none of it works. Finally, the producer goes, "You know what? You're like a boring professor from a class no one wants to take." And I was like, "Okay, I think we're done here." I think, yeah. - That's what the woman said?

No, no, that's what the producer said to the woman. And he was trying to like jump start, he was trying to like put the pads on her and like jump start her heart. It killed it. And like, yeah, we ended up, you know, we saved the story. But so yeah, but that's not something I would ever say to somebody. But yeah, confrontation is not something I have

but I will say I've gotten to the point where I'm very comfortable confronting people if they are not telling the truth because it really pisses me off when someone's not telling the truth. Yeah, but that necessitates you being...

as aware of the facts as this politician might. Totally. Then my next question is, where do you find the time to be as educated as you need to be to do your job as well as you do it? So ideally, if you're doing an interview like that that you know is going to be confrontational, I mean, I spend hours reading. I try to read everything that person has said. If you know it's going to be confrontational, if you know that they have stated things which are not true and you know you want to zero in on it, you zero in on just a few points,

and I try to read everything they've said over the last six months or six weeks at least.

because generally people repeat themselves over and over. So you can see in multiple interviews what somebody has already said, and then you know, okay, they're going to tell this lie, and then you have all the facts backed up. So if you do your research, you have the advantage of knowing what they're going to say sometimes. And if they fall into that trap, then you can just say, okay, well, actually, here's the truth.

here's the facts according to this organization, this organization. And there's nothing more satisfying than that. Yeah, you got the real silk glove when you do that. Yeah, than burning somebody on TV. Well, it's not even so much burning them on TV. It's more just like,

just stating facts to somebody who has... Because most people who are doing interviews, you know, they pop up on the screen, they don't have the facts with them, so they can't really challenge somebody. So if you have the time to actually do the research, there's nothing more satisfying than that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Will wants to know where you get your news from. He always asks a journalist. Where do you... He thinks that there's like some... This is abatement. He's trying to cover up his own... He's always like... You get that they... That journalists have some secret... Well...

Well, here's my theory, Anderson. Channel of news. Where do the news reporters get their news if not from... They're reporting on the stuff that's happening, dummy. Okay, where did Maggie Haberman get her information from after she went and interviewed people? Maggie Haberman has contacts that she has developed over the years or whenever, and she contacts them and she breaks news, and then other people...

Sometimes people report what Maggie Haberman has said, or we report what the Times has said, or we have folks at CNN who have, you know, the sources, and, you know, that's what you either talk to people directly or... You think that Maggie Haberman's up in her bedroom, like, fucking copying USA Today with her feet up in the air? LAUGHTER

Maggie, dinner's ready. Hang on. I'm just writing out my fucking story for tomorrow that I'm copying from another. What are you doing? But Anderson, he doesn't have... He's not down in the underground parking lot like Hal Holbrook and Maggie Averman. I'm not in the halls of Mar-a-Lago talking to the waiter. So he's got an incredible staff, question mark? So yeah, I've got, for CNN here, I've got a team of like 30 people and...

But we have all these correspondents to rely on and all these guests to rely on. Maggie Haberman is a contributor to CNN, and so we can bring her on and talk about what she's broken. So you've got a show tonight you're about to do. So I'd imagine you've got – we're going to let you go here soon. And so you're going to get in probably a big room with those 30 staff members, and they're going to say, here's what happened today. Here's what you should know and –

Yeah. I mean, this happens in the morning. So we're talking in the almost evening on the East Coast. And so that happened early this morning of like, okay, where are our correspondents? What do we think is going to happen? But stuff changes all throughout the day. And even while we're on the air, stuff changes. And so what you have to do basically is you have to just read –

stuff all day long. So I like reading. I like learning stuff. So you just read stuff all day long so that in the middle of the program when what you think is going to be the 45 minutes, the last 45 minutes of your show gets tossed out because something else has happened, you already know enough in your head that you can talk about that for 45 minutes even if

There's no teleprompter and there's no guests. There's nothing. You just have done a lot of reading. That's so scary. Right. So like when there's something happens, let's say, Jason, there's something, so-and-so was indicted or whatever, that story is released. They make a statement. The clerks do whoever, whatever. And the guys who work and women, everybody who works with Anderson, give them all that stuff. And then they develop a story based on those facts. You fucking idiot. Yeah.

No, but it is kind of interesting, like, the trickle down, like, you know, all the people on the ground getting the story, then reports to this person, then reports to that, and then it finally gets to you, and then you put it on the air. Right, but, you know, the most interesting thing for, like, live television is you're on the air, something happens, you know, God forbid a plane crashes, and all you have are a few sentences of information. You know the flight number, you know what time it took off, you know where it was supposed to go, and so...

you go into rolling coverage. And that means that everyone who's in the control room, it's suddenly like all hands on deck. They start calling flight experts, aviation experts, anybody they can possibly think of, somebody from the Department of Transportation, the Secretary of Transportation, the Department of Transportation, the NTSB, whatever it is. And on air, you start relaying the information. You point out what you don't know, and you have to

have an ongoing conversation that can go from anywhere from 30 seconds. You can be on for nine hours. What are you doing when you get rid of all this out of your head and just to like check out?

What are you doing? With the kids? You're playing with the kids? What are you watching? I'm the most tightly wound person there is. What do you do to unwind? Do you start watching some of the Andy Cohen stuff and you just start chewing a bunch of gummies? What happens over there? So no, so this is what, this is going to sound totally like I'm sucking up to you. I find it, I watch, I go home and I watch

stuff that completely takes me out of my head and out of my world. So like, Ozark, for instance. Sure, sure. I am obsessed. I have loved it. Come on. I think it's one of the greatest shows. No, no, one of the greatest shows in television. It's true. And it so takes me out of my head and into this other world. I find it relaxing. I find Ozark relaxing. I find Narcos relaxing. Oh, yeah. Like,

Gamora, which is, I don't know if you've seen Gamora. Of course. It is the greatest, it's amazing. But Ozark, it was so genius and the last season was genius and the end was incredible. You're very nice. Thank you. Yeah, I love it too. Yeah, and your character, I'm the same way of like,

you know, like, oh, okay, that person just got shot in the head. Okay, so now we have to do this. All right, so let's do that. So that is how I deal with everything. Yeah, same. I'm a little bit of a... Let me ask you about Gamora. Did you see the Chiro spinoff movie? I did. I didn't love it. I didn't love it either. But you know what? I don't want to criticize anything about Gamora because I just... I didn't even like the movie Gamora so much. The TV show, I just...

It's mind-blowing. I'm not here to one-up you, Anderson. I think you're great. Oh, boy. Did you read the book? I did, actually. That's great. The book is great. Roberto Saviano. Yeah, who's been in hiding ever since he wrote this stuff. I read his, he had another book, his most recent book I read, which I didn't really get into. Did you get that one read well?

I did not. I did not read the phone. Oh, you didn't? Oh, I'll send it to you. And we're back. And we're back. So now the New Year's thing seems like a get the hair down, relax a little bit thing. How did that come about? Did you raise your hand for that? How many releases do you have to sign into CNN just like, man, just fucking call it this year? You know what's funny? So I've been doing that for like,

I just, I started volunteering to do New Year's because I hated New Year's Eve. I started volunteering like 15 years ago because no one at CNN was doing it and they needed somebody. And I was like, I hate New Year's Eve. You can't have fun. There's too much pressure. Clubs in New York, like there's too many long lines. Right. You end up...

fighting over cabs with drunk girls. So I was like, you know what, I'll just work on New Year's Eve. And I'd never been in Times Square on New Year's Eve, and it turned out I actually really liked it. It was fun. I could come and go. So yeah, and then Andy joined, and it's been fun. Yeah, it's like the one thing I look forward to that evening. You guys are great. And he enjoys a little drink now and then, and so he broke me into that. God, he's fun.

He's a fun dude. Now, when you mentioned your mom finding out about you doing all this and wanting to go out in crazy situations in other countries and be like that, what would you do if one of your sons came up and said, you know what, Dad? I'm going to run out to the store really quick, and they're in Bosnia or whatever. Yeah.

- You know, well, my son's two, so if he did that I would be really concerned. - When they're older, when they're older. - Okay. - Bosnia's actually gorgeous right now. - Yeah, okay, sorry. - Oh, this time of year is nice. - Yeah. You know, look, I hope I would be the parent who's supportive of anything my kids wanna do. And I would have a team of former Special Forces people secretly following him around.

I'm sure. I'm sure. Now, before we let you go, I want to hear about your podcast. So it's called All There with Anderson Cooper. Now, this is... It's called All There Is, but that's fine. No, that's fine. All There Is. Good change. Good change there. So it started with All There...

Is it, this has to do with a bit of your life before journalism, yes? Yeah, it's basically, it's a podcast, like The World Needs Another Podcast, but it's just a limited podcast, you know, eight or 10 episodes or something. And it's about loss and about grief. And it's about,

Yeah, it's about people's experiences with that and living with that and moving through it. And it's something we don't really talk about, I think. It makes people uncomfortable, so I don't know if anyone will actually listen to it. But it's just interesting people who have kind of remarkable experiences, talk with loss and grief in their own life. From Stephen Colbert, who I know you guys have had on. I loved your episode with him. You know, his father and his twin brothers were killed in a plane crash when he was 10 years old.

Molly Shannon, who has had the incredible experiences as well. And just really interesting people, a palliative care doctor who's been at the bedside of many people as their life ended. And so it's just about...

You know, it's not depressing. It's just kind of talking about loss and grief. No, it's part of life. And we had Michael Lewis, the author, on a while ago. And he talked about loss in a way that I'd never heard anybody talk about. It's really remarkable and very moving. And I think you're right. I think it is important to talk about it.

And I'll listen to it. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, you could walk us through any subject and it would be palatable for sure. Listen, nobody has more losses than me, okay? Let's get real. You poor guy. Now, for fun with the kids, what do you love to do? What are they loving? So my son Wyatt is like two years and like three or four months and my son Sebastian is six months old. And I

They are just... I mean, I always have wanted to be a dad. I love kids. And it's the greatest thing I've ever done. It's the only thing I... I mean, I just am so besotted with them. And I like nothing more than...

You know, I spend most of the, a lot of the day with him. I mean, I do a lot of work now just from home. I love being there when he wakes up in the morning. I like going in and waking him up in the morning and going out. We go out for coffee and like he's one of, like his first phrase was, I want a black coffee, which is probably not a great thing for a two-year-old. I want a black coffee. So you've got, now that you've got two kids and you're able to compare the two of them and also the sort of the age difference there, are you,

Most fibbers will say that they love the first year. Now, I'm sure you're going to say the same thing, but now that you've got one that's beyond the first year, two and a half, don't like, isn't it amazing? Not quite two. No, two and a half and six months, right? Almost two and a half. Almost two and a half. So to me, it was like my dog learned how to talk. Yeah. You know, because the whole first year, that's all they are is that they're just a puppy. They're shitting everywhere and screaming and you just, there's no communication. And then all of a sudden-

they learn how to say, I like this park and not that park or this food and not that food. And it's like right through the ceiling. I know. And this morning, like my son, he came, he came, like I came upstairs right before I left for work and he saw me and he ran to me and like hugged me. And which, you know, obviously he's done before, but he's just so, he's so there now. Like he's, I know, you know, he's all baked in there. Like I just need to not,

Fuck him up. I just need to not pass on my insane controlling-- - I think you're doing all right. - You will. - I got you. - I got you. - But I totally agree with you. I mean, the dog who's now talking, it's the best thing ever. It's like, oh my God. I didn't think it could get any better. I feel like my head and my heart are about to explode. - So what did you do? Anderson, what did you do? Because you just said it, and I know this about you. Everything has to be in order. Maybe a little bit just controlling. Maybe just like everything has its place.

And then now you have two little adorable, amazing boys who throw things, knock things over, dirty shit up, right on the wall, like whatever it is. Does that, what does that do to you? Uh, yeah.

You know, I like to keep their stuff ultimately a little clean when they go to bed. I clean up a little bit. You're getting real red-faced. But I don't want to pass on any of that stuff. So I'm like, you know what? They have an entire floor to themselves. I'm on the floor right beneath. I live in an old firehouse. And, you know, it's their floor, and I'm fine with it. Wait, you live in an old firehouse? I thought that you lived in the Time Warner Center and that you just had a fire pole. That's how I imagined how you lived.

But is there a fire pole? That's always been my dream, by the way. True story. I've kept the fire poles, of course. Truly? Yeah. Oh, my God. I want to come over. There's a stable in the back for horses because the engines were horse-drawn. Please let me come over. I want to slide down that thing. Amazing. So what I'm getting is your kids living on a different floor than you.

He said it. Yes. People have different bedrooms. You and Scotty have different bedrooms. That's true. That's true. We sleep in separate bedrooms. Anderson, you go do your thing and keep making that stuff. We love to watch. I really love what you guys do. I can't believe I've been able to be on this. It's okay. You can say you love us too. You're the best. Thank you for doing this. You're real, real busy. You could have easily said no, but thank you for not.

Thank you. Thanks, Anderson Cooper. Great to meet you. Such a pleasure. Bye, pal. See you guys. Bye. I really like that fellow, guys. I don't care who knows it. I'll scream it from the rooftops. He's entertaining all the way around. I'm real sweet on him. I like it when he starts to break, when he starts to laugh. He's really funny.

Yeah, he starts to titter. You don't expect that. He starts to titter. Yeah, it's really fun. But brilliant, like journalists, but also I was going to ask him because Jason, in your intro, you said how private this person was. I was like, oh, I wonder how they're going to be as a guest. And you revealed that it was Anderson. And I know how private he was before he came out. There seemed to be something...

I was going to say this to him, and I'll say this to his face, but a little not fully there. And then after he came out, it was like, oh, there's the guy. Now he's hosting New Year's Eve. Now he's out and he's proud and he's happy. He has his family. He has a lot to share. And you see it now when he reports on TV and stuff. I think it's really, really great. I wonder if he felt like, you know, sort of the –

I don't know if it was the gay thing or not. Well, but maybe like because he wanted to be a respected journalism guy and Edward R. Murrow and Walter Cronkite. This character. This guy knows what he's talking about. And he needs to be all buttoned up. And then once he...

Yeah, so now he's like, yeah, so maybe that was a part of it. Maybe that, yeah. But anyway, super, super guy. And by the way, funny, like really funny. Yeah, I'd like, listen, as I said, I'd like to spend more time with him. I don't know if you guys have a number on him. I do. I have all his contact info. I do. We're gay. All the gay people have each other's contact info. Is that right? I feel like you're joking, but is that true? I've always assumed that. It's the Gello pages, the gay Gello pages.

Wonderful stuff. I had a bunch of really good jokes. I will tell you this. This is the respect I have for Anderson Cooper. I'm surprised you didn't have anything for Plumpy Nut. I did. I know that really stuck out to me, too. Guys, I love you. We're not doing anything clever today but saying bye.

Really? Oh, we are just that? It's just as simple as that? Yeah, because... Well, you can hang up. Will and I are going to think about something that's worthy of our listener. Yeah. We had a great listener. Well, I was not saying it was against the listeners. Yeah, the listener... Yeah, what if it's... You know, what if somebody just tunes in for that? Right. You know, they're just like... If we could reach one kid... They put up... There's a three-time speed until they get... Yeah, until they get to the end. So we're going to sit here.

Sean, but you know why? Sean, I tell you what, though. I'm not going to be mad at you. You know why? Why? Because I'm going to let bygones be bygones. Wonderful. Wonderful. Smart. Smart. Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbico, Michael Grant Terry, and Rob Armjarff.

Smart Less. If you like Smart Less, you can listen early and add free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.