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Amiga, empathy is our best policy. Cam found out that group chats between different phones aren't private. Or encrypted. Or encrypted, thank you. We only text in code. Yes, which I created. I created a code. Yes. Which can be a little annoying. Wait, was that your attempt at the code? You already forgot the code, didn't you? I should have written it down.
There's a house here in Walton County that came up associated with the cartel living there.
I'm not sure how I got the location of the house. I think I came up with this location from another case. Because you'll hear rumblings. That was a home invasion, you know, or the drug guys were sitting on a house because they heard it was a stash house. That is fairly common out here. They've not really hit anything big yet, but they're out here.
That's investigator Mike Rising. After months of us talking, he finally opens up about what is likely the darkest theory yet surrounding Justin's case. About maybe a year ago, our guys were either chasing somebody or someone called in with a complaint. Oh, it was a report of a shooting, a suicide at this house. So the sheriff's office goes out there.
They were there for a party. This one guy had walked away from the party, and there were several buildings there, and had gone out behind the building and shot himself in the head. So it gets worked. Well, then it starts, these names start getting checked, and like, uh-oh, these guys are with people.
Okay, like Mexican mafia. And then the stories aren't kind of making sense, so there's some suspicion the guy might not have committed suicide other than by ripping some of the wrong person off and being killed. So this is definitely an organized group out there. But this house comes up in the Justin Gaines case as far as the owners of the property and that as having been connected with the players in the Justin Gaines case.
From Waveland, I'm Sean Kite, and this is Drowning Creek. The bomb that was dropped on me recently, that the Mexican cartel could ultimately be involved in Justin Gaines' disappearance and death, was absolutely mind-blowing. The whole incident, the people that own the property, associated with the property, maybe some of the people were present when this kid is found having killed himself.
There are references to them in the Justin Gaines case as reflected. There's not really a connection criminally between the people that own the property and Justin Gaines. It's their children. They're all in their 20s, you know, in their younger age, and they're out doing their own thing, their own little criminal acts which involve drug trafficking.
Surprisingly, this angle of possible cartel involvement on some level brings us back to the tips and confessions made it pointed to Justin being placed in a well in Walton or neighboring Barrow County. This area, there's several roads out there. The lots are all five and six acre lots. They're big lots. And the commonality, the backs of the lots have a dirt road where they butt up. And the backs of the lots...
If you haven't spent much time in the South, it might sound odd that all these wells could exist and people don't know exactly where they are or where they were.
There were so many farms and homesteads, some dating back as far as the late 1700s. Over time, as people moved around, bought and sold land, and expansion occurred, many of those wells were abandoned. There are literally dozens of forgotten wells in the area, but the only way to be found using old archival land maps or when a landowner strolls through their property and stumbles upon it
So now, according to Mike, we have a potential group of properties allegedly owned by cartel-affiliated people. And those properties may have old wells on them. We also have some of the same names being mentioned in the alleged cartel hit made to look like a suicide, as in Justin's case. This cartel story, you know, if you... It's been there the whole time. Right. Without anyone really realizing it, which is, I think, why that anonymous call is so important. Because that name, Chino...
Chino, as far as you know, is in some way tied to this cartel. And there's been no, you know, it's interesting. I want to say I've thought about it, but not. There's been no focus on those folks. No focus on the biker guys. No focus on the cartel people. It's all been...
It's not the conspiracy, like a federal approach to it. It's focus on the incident. He's been kidnapped and killed. That's what their focus is. And they go from there out into an inner circle. And then, okay, it could be connected with bikers, could be connected, you know, higher up. But the thought process has not thought to do that.
As if there weren't enough names in this story already, Mike mentioned "The Bikers," referring to the Georgia chapter of the Outlaw Motorcycle Club. The Georgia chapter was headquartered out of Beaufort, which is not far from Lake Lanier.
The Outlaws are the oldest motorcycle club in the world, and similar to the Hells Angels, ran drugs and guns. They were largely broken up in Georgia when they were infiltrated by the ATF in 2012, when an undercover agent gained access to the club. How probable do you think that is, that that's all connected to Justin Gaines being kidnapped, being killed? I absolutely can see it happen.
work cases where there is that far reaching of a decision process can occur. They don't have a big deal about taking somebody out if they thought they're... In Lee Mitchell, I got involved in reviewing that case.
32-year-old Lee Mitchell has been missing since March 11, 2020. Like Justin Gaines, he simply vanished one day. He was last seen at an auto parts store where a witness claimed he looked visibly distressed. As Mike Rising had reviewed Mitchell's case file, he filled me in on how it could possibly relate as well to Justin's. The only real nexus with us is that he lived here with his ex-wife and girlfriend in the same house.
And he had friends here that he dealt drugs with. But it's a very similar set of circumstances. He probably sped up his demise because he also collected on drug debts. He was a big guy. He was known as a bully. And he would use the fact that he was a bully to intimidate and beat people up to collect drug debt. So he was kind of writing his own ticket there towards his demise.
But the last thought process, and when I'm being told this story, I'm listening to it, and then when I read through the case, I'm confirming in my own mind what their opinion was, was that he like disappeared for a couple of days and the Mexicans felt that maybe he had flipped and that he might be a DEA informant. And they said, "Take him out." Whether he was or not,
I've asked our drug guys who've been on task force whether or not they could confirm whether or not he was working for the DEA, and it wasn't a big jump for them to get back to me. Now, I know as a fed, I would not confirm to a local law enforcement agency that one of my informants was an informant. I wouldn't confirm that to them. Right. So does that lead you to believe that that's a real possibility? Absolutely. Happens all the time.
And that could go as to a good reasoning why some of these people, that's a pretty good reason for Dylan to lay out his line of crap that he laid out to me. It's a good reason for Leon. He's just a different mentality. He's a quieter guy. And for him taking off, he's basically just not talking to anybody. Maybe for the same reason. He's afraid of the upper class.
If they're involved in it, he's afraid that it might come back on them.
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There's been a monumental jump from where I started to where I am now in my thinking on this case. It's gone from a young man who disappeared from Wild Bill's nightclub that may have been involved in an altercation inside, to a motorcycle gang and a possible cartel hit over drug money owed. Those aren't my words either. It's all in the case file. Honestly, it feels crazy to even say these things out loud. But sometimes, truth is stranger than fiction.
To think that Mexican cartels are operating out of small towns in Georgia seems almost implausible. That's a scary thing when you have this big unknown and you hear cartel, because everybody, you worked closely with these groups, but the average Joe knows what cartels are capable of today. I mean, you hear stories all the time. And they're real. And they're real. And they're here. And they are here. They're here. Sheriff Chapman told me the same thing when I discussed this with him. And people at home...
People that listen to this, well, you know, that don't go on in Monroe, Georgia, cartels. Just last week, we busted a trailer park right down here in the city of Monroe. ATF came in. These people are buying firearms and shipping them to the cartels in Mexico.
And I'm not talking about 38 special revolvers. He had a M249 saw. That's a .223 caliber squad automatic weapon is what it is, fully automatic. Brand new in the box. And we know they had two or three of them, along with sorted handguns and light arms and stuff like that, right here in Monroe, Georgia, that was going on. Because the cartels send them.
The guy with the automatic weapon, he'd been deported four times. They know how the system works. I didn't know this existed in the city, but I saw this and it opened my eyes. And I'm not getting into the whole open border war and all that mess, but it's what's happening in those border towns in Texas and Arizona and all those places. It's affecting everybody in this country, whether you know it or not.
We're apple pie, baseball, damn, you know, USA. And this stuff is hitting us too. And Chapman is right.
it is hitting us in small-town America. In a nine-month long investigation on this exact topic, the Courier Journal reported in 2019 that cartels like El Mencho's CJNG, for example, have over 5,000 members located everywhere in the world but Antarctica, and have infiltrated big cities and small towns alike in at least 35 states,
the cartel set up cells in small towns where they operate living working and doing business in the communities as for the connection to the outlaw motorcycle club well there are a few names in that case file that i can't share that relate to justin's case but one familiar name does pop up according to rising in pickett's house as per shane
When you go in there, there's a gigantic, it's a piece of cloth, like a sheet, that has had a photograph put on it. You know, you can have that done, and it's a mural of like eight or nine Atlanta outlaw motorcycle gang members, and Pickett's picture is in it.
And I think there's some rumor that he may have been associated, affiliated with the outlaw motorcycle gang. Now, Rising said Pickett a couple of times when referring to Andy Pickens. He says Pickens alleged involvement with the outlaws could tie back to Dylan and his crew.
You got Dylan and his crew underneath that may be selling dope for these guys. So you kind of got a reason for Leon and Dylan and them not talking a whole lot. Because they'll say cartel, these folks who own residences and businesses here, and they're working with the Atlanta outlaw motorcycle gang who have murdered people in the past.
So, according to this information, it's possible that the Outlaws were associated with the cartel, Andy Pickens was associated with the Outlaws, and Dylan and Leon were associated with Andy Pickens. The mid-level dealers known as New York and Money were in the mix as well. Drugs were involved on all levels.
When discussing people like Chino and his alleged cartel connections, it's interesting that his name was one of the first to be heard in connection to Justin's disappearance through that anonymous call. You can't discount the importance of this. I've heard that Chino, whoever he is, was at Wild Bill's the night Justin disappeared. I was also told by a confidential informant close to all the players in this game that Justin owed the wrong people money for drugs, and they offered up that, quote, nobody fucks with the cartel.
And I said, "Yeah, I heard that too. Chino?" After a long pause, the informant asked me, "Who said that name?" As we discussed a bit more, it was obvious to me that the energy had changed. This informant was clearly afraid of Chino and stated to me word for word, "Chino isn't to be fucked with or no one will tell the story." After that, they went dark.
The amount of information, names and dates in this case, is mind-boggling to say the least. Bob Poulneau alone has over 30 4-inch binders full of his own investigative files.
Still, I feel like something is missing. I want to know how these people all became connected to Justin Gaines. And is it really possible that there could be involvement in this case by the outlaws or even the cartel? I know police have this information in their files, but it just feels like such a huge jump to make without any solid or tangible evidence. So let's go back to the beginning.
to wild bills and the altercation that gave me my first glimpse of any possible motive for anyone wanting to cause harm to Justin. Years and years, I'm seeing it over and over. Like, I seen it again when his mother mentioned something about it again, and I said, what? I thought they would have figured this out already, but nothing came up. So I said, man, I got to throw something out there so they can at least, you know,
Something else can come out of it. That's Del. He was at the club that night, and he says he was a witness to the altercation on the dance floor involving Justin. Del says he and Justin were battle dancing. You know, egging each other on, trying to one-up each other. When we was battle dancing, it was a situation on the floor. It was a group of guys where it looked like he was about to get in a fight with them, and they didn't look too kind or nothing like that.
They were ready to fight. How many of them were there, the other guys? It was at least, I think it was four or five. They was all wearing black. We was in the middle of the floor. Like, I can remember where we was because by the soundboard is where we were actually dancing. So they were a little bit off to, like, my left because I was aiming towards the stage.
Justin was across from me, aiming towards the stage diagonally. So when he crossed from me, that's when he ran into them. Because he actually bumped into them. I mean, he was kind of, I ain't gonna lie, I don't know if he was drunk or not, but he just fell into them. And you know how some people get when you fall on them. They push you and everything, so...
Del tried his best to remember anything else he could, like what these guys looked like. But honestly, it's been 16 years.
All he could come up with was that one guy had waves in his hair and another wore a large silver chain around his neck. It doesn't have a, like, a medallion on it, but it had, like, you know, the, just straight around. Just big fat chain around the neck. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dell said he left the club not long after this altercation, before Justin did. So unfortunately, he didn't see who Justin left with. He told me he didn't see a blonde girl that matches Heather's description hanging around when they were dancing. Dell also mentioned that Justin sort of fell into the group of guys on the dance floor. To me, I mean, he was really wasted, like falling over type. Like his mom, of course, you know, they...
They mentioned he wasn't, but, you know, sometimes you don't want to really tell him like that. But I noticed he was always falling over anyway. But he was having, he looked like he was having a great time, though. Like the whole time, because he was always smiling and he was chilling. Like, that's what surprised me. Like, he was just having a good time.
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I have to take you now through a lot of information. What I'm going to share with you might at first seem fairly broad or vague, but it's not. And at the end, I think you'll see how this all comes together and could be connected to Justin Gaines. There are a lot of names and other pieces of information that I have to keep confidential for now. And to use any interview audio would be very hard to follow and make sense of with all the bleeped out names and locations.
I'll also recap the main points of what I've learned so far. Everything I'm going to tell you is in the case file and is not my opinion, though much of it is theory and speculation based on information that's been obtained over the years. We know that Justin got into an altercation with several men on the dance floor of Wild Bill's, but a fight didn't break out.
One of the men, who wore his hair in short dreads, is thought to be the man referred to as "Money", a local dealer who ran with New York. Money was ID'd by five different people walking around Wild Bill's in the days after Justin's disappearance. He stood out to volunteer searchers because he seemed to be very interested in finding out what police knew and where they were looking.
Justin left Wild Bill's parking lot around 2:30 a.m. that night. The security guard noticed him and also noticed a black car parked along the curb nearby, but his attention was diverted at that moment by two young girls fighting. None of the security cameras caught Justin after he exited the front entrance area of the club. Justin was then seen getting into the rear passenger side seat of a black car with several others. We know that because a witness named James Irving saw and spoke with him briefly.
Irving stated that Justin didn't appear to really know the people he was in the car with, including the blonde girl who we've possibly identified as Heather. Bob Polno, a Gwinnett County detective and an FBI agent interviewed Irving in his parents' home in January of 2008 and got a description of the vehicle. It was a black 2006 four-door Dodge Charger with big chrome wheels, dark tinted windows, and a Georgia tag.
The year, make and model of the car was identified by Irving searching the photo sharing site Flickr. As investigators worked to identify the car and its owner, a lead pointed them to a police report filed in early 2008. The owner of a car matching this description had reported that the vehicle's big chrome wheels had been stolen and it was left sitting on concrete blocks.
Though a report was filed, no insurance claim was allegedly ever made on the wheels, which were not cheap, valued at over $6,000. The owner was living at, or staying at the time at the Conestoga Trailer Park, where Dylan and a host of others in this story have lived. Coincidence? And this theft was reported shortly after investigators began questioning people in the trailer park about a car matching the description of this one, a black Charger with big chrome wheels.
Though the theft was considered suspicious by police, no follow-up investigation was ever done despite police learning that the owner of the car was known to be involved in drug and gang activity. Sometime later, the owner of that car was questioned in a Gwinnett County jail. When he learned that the interview was regarding Justin Gaines, he stood up, said he wanted a lawyer, and left the room. I'm also told by a source that he may know Chino.
And I've even heard that Chena was driving the black car that night at the club. But that is unconfirmed. I learned recently that Dylan's mother, Tammy, stated, despite her confession, that her son did not personally know Justin Gaines. A friend of Dylan's named Christy made the same statement. That strengthens Dylan's claim of never knowing him.
But I've also heard that Dylan, Leon, and a host of others, including the owner of the black car, and even Chino, met in the parking lot of a Walmart in Loganville, Georgia, early in the evening of November 1st, and were using cocaine. Per witness statements, Justin Gaines was there at some point as well. If that's true, that would explain where Justin went during the four-plus hours between leaving his parents' house and going to the club. At least, in part.
In Tammy Ballew's interview with police, she stated that Justin had, quote, come back to her and Andy Pickens' home, alleging that he had been there previously that night. According to Mike Rising and Bob Polno, others provided statements that seemed to reinforce Ballew's regarding what took place in Andy Pickens' garage in the early morning hours of November 2nd. The sounds of fighting, Justin being choked out, wrapped in painter's tarp, a gunshot, a van idling outside.
We heard that New York was there and giving orders on what to do with Justin's body and that he was taken to the houseboat at Lake Lanier. Tammy Ballou discussed seeing blood on several objects in and around the houseboat and being witness to Justin being placed in a well. Now we know that Andy Pickens houseboat and van were remodeled and along with Shane's truck all went missing shortly after.
Pickens was interviewed at his home by investigators, along with Bob Poulnot. They said he was extremely nervous, sweating profusely, and breathing rapidly, according to Bob. Pickens denied having any knowledge of, well, anything. He also denied knowing New York. But when he was told that his phone records had been pulled and data collected showed calls to and from New York, Pickens eventually admitted that he did know him, and that New York's number was saved in his phone.
This interview took place while standing in the garage of Andy Pickens' house, where Justin is said to have been killed. A search warrant still has never been sought. In August of 2016, Andy Pickens was interviewed by Colonel Carl Sims of the Gwinnett County Police. Recently, I was able to obtain a copy of that interview.
I, like every other person who's looked into this case, hoped Andy Pickens might be able to shed some light on what happened to Justin. The first thing I noticed was how Sims, who Dylan Glass is accused of coercing statements from witnesses, repeatedly gives Pickens an out right from the start.
This is who I am. I'm Colonel Sims. You may or may not have heard my name. I'm sure you have. Like I told you, you're being recorded. Is that okay? Okay. You recognize that. The other thing I want to make sure of is this, is that the sheriff asked you to come in by the chair. You know you're not under arrest, right? Right. You're not under arrest. I want to make that completely clear. You're free to get up and walk away anytime you want to. If you're uncomfortable the way that I'm talking to you, please tell me first, but you're welcome to go anytime you want to. And you also know that you don't have to talk to me. You know that, right? Right.
Pickens' frail frame sits at a small table across from Sims with his arms crossed. His bright red-orange collared shirt compliments his combed back salt-and-pepper hair and black, thick-rimmed glasses. Sims goes on to show Pickens photographs of several key players in this story, Dylan, Leon, and Shane to begin with.
First thing I really want to do is kind of show you some of these pictures of these people. Do you recognize this guy? I thought you asked for Dylan. Yeah, it's Dylan. Of course. How about this guy? Do you recognize this guy? No. You don't recognize him at all? Mm-hmm. You ever heard the name Leon? Leon's a good friend of Dylan's? No, no, no. How about Shane? Never heard of him. You never heard of Shane? Never heard of Leon? Mm-hmm.
Pickens stated that he didn't know Leon. He knew Dylan well, and Leon hung with Dylan often, so that's odd. But saying that he didn't know Shane was just bizarre. Shane had stayed the night at his house, according to Shane, Tammy, and Dylan, but Pickens acted as if he'd never seen him before. He says he's never seen the person in the first photo he's shown, Justin Gaines. You've seen this kid on the news, right? Yeah. You ever seen him before, other than on the news? Mm-hmm. Never been at your house? No. Okay. Yeah.
Pickens does, however, recognize the picture of New York, and at this point, Sims starts applying pressure, speaking more quickly, asking the same questions again and again in a different way in an attempt to unsettle Pickens.
What about New York? I'm going to show you a video of New York. If you're going to hear it from New York, you won't hear it from me. Because you don't know me and you don't know if I'm bullshitting you or not. But I'm going to show you a video. I just put New York in jail here recently, right? Did you know that? No, I didn't. When was the last time you talked to that guy? That was a long time ago. How long was it a long time ago? I don't mean to be... I mean, I'm not sure, but two, three years, four years. Really? That was a long time ago. You don't lie to me, right? No.
Pickens gets visually more and more nervous as they go. Fidgeting and squirming in his chair turns to rubbing his eyes and shaking his head back and forth. Sims tells him who he's called on this date or that up to eight years prior, letting Pickens know they've looked heavily into his actions.
Sims then lays out the entire theory developed up to that point in detail. That's just nagging at me. And you did, you lied. I don't recall. Do you understand why I'm overly concerned about this? Because this van...
This van up to that point had never been at Sunrise Cove until that night. And there it is. It shows up and there's the log. That's your van right there. Security log. That van, the night this boy goes missing, there it is. Right there at the marina.
Pickens then gets up and walks out of the room.
Sims goes for broke and follows him into the hallway. I'm going to get you out of here. I don't want you to get sick. I'm pretty much stressed. Like I said, they're telling me not to talk to you anyway. Well, you know why they told you not to talk to me, Andy? Because you're lying? No, no, no. And I know you're lying. And I tell you what, I really feel for you because I'm going to tell you right now, I know you're lying and I know what's going on.
And I know you lied a couple of years ago. And I really wanted to work with you on this. But obviously I'm not going to. So I'm going to work against you. And I'm going to do everything I can do. Everything I can do to prove that you had something to do with it. And God bless you and good luck to you. Because you're sure going to need it. Then, the interview with Andy Pickens is over. Pickens passed away from cancer less than two weeks later. Ending another chapter in this story. And ending any hope of gleaning any more information out of him.
So what now? What do you do when you can't get anyone else to speak with you, but you still have questions? What do you do when every road you travel down, in this case, has been traveled a hundred times before with no luck, no answers, no resolution? You keep trying. And that's exactly what I'm going to do.
Drowning Creek is an original production of Waveland. I wrote and created the series and the original score. Executive producer is Jason Hoke. Associate producer is Leo Culp. Sound engineering by Shane Freeman. Special thanks to Erica Wilson and her family. If you have any leads on this case, please contact me at info at SeanKype.com. And if you love the series, please leave a review and tell your friends.
Follow Waveland on Instagram at Waveland Media for more on this series and upcoming new shows. And you can also find me on social media at SeanKypeOfficial or at SeanKype.com. As always, thanks for listening.
The National Sales Event is on at your Toyota dealer, making now the perfect time to get a great deal on a dependable new car like a legendary Camry. Built for performance and available with all-wheel drive, you can count on your new Camry to get anywhere you need to go. Or check out an affordable and reliable Corolla with a trim for every lifestyle. From the hip sedan to the sporty hatchback, there's a Corolla built just for you. Check out more National Sales Event deals when you visit buyatoyota.com.
Toyota, let's go places. At Amica Insurance, we know it's more than just a car. It's the two-door coupe that was there for your first drive, the hatchback that took you cross-country and back, and the minivan that tackles the weekly carpool. For the cars you couldn't live without, trust Amica Auto Insurance. Amica. Empathy is our best policy.
