Self Defense or Premeditated Murder? The Story of Charlie Tan 33:29

Hello everyone and welcome back. So happy to have you here. If you are new, then welcome. My cat Meatball is joining us today. She can make sudden loud sounds, so it might happen. So today's case is actually very controversial and I feel I know how the majority of you are going to feel about it and what the comment section will be like for the

of disagreement and discussion going on in the comments. And yeah, I'm interested to see what you guys think because this is a very difficult and frustrating case in many ways. Today, we're going to be talking about Charlie Tan.

and discussing whether or not what he did should be considered premeditated murder or self-defense. And before we get into things, I just wanted to remind you guys that between now and the end of the year, I'm going to be matching all donations on my team page for...

National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. And so far, a lot of you have already donated and I'm so grateful. I actually just checked the donation page and there were some really generous donations coming in. When I am recording this, we are currently at $77,000. Now, my goal is to reach 100,000

by the end of the year. And those donations that have come in, I haven't even matched yet. I'll be matching them once we tally everything up at the end of the year. So I think it's very doable. I think we're going to be able to get there, guys. Plus, if you haven't bought a NECMEC charity item, I have all those available on my website, milehighermerch.com.

That will be linked below. And 100% of the profit from those items is donated to the same campaign. So you can also donate that way. I am really excited about this campaign and fundraising for NECMEC. They are such a deserving, amazing,

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I'm really excited to see if we can get to a hundred thousand by the end of the year. I'm feeling pretty confident about it. I think we can do it guys. And again, our fundraising page is linked below. If you'd like to make a direct donation, you can do it there. And that's how I'm tracking to be able to match. All right.

let's get into this one. You guys buckle up. This one is tough. Okay. So Charlie Tan and his brother, Jeff were both born in Canada and their parents are named Jim and Jean Tan. Jim and Jean were both born and raised in China, but they moved to North America to build, you know, a better life for their sons. When Charlie was seven years old, he and his family left Canada and moved to

Pittsburgh, New York, which is just south of Rochester. And from people on the outside, life for the Tan family looked pretty good. They seemed like a pretty solid, happy, successful family. Jim worked for Kodak before becoming the president and CEO of Dynamax Imaging. So clearly he was very successful in his business and their family did well financially. It's unclear if his mother Jean was

I'm not sure if she did, but I do know that she was a very attentive, loving, caring mother to her sons. And as for Charlie, he was a very well-rounded person growing up. He had a lot of friends. He excelled, you know, in his personal life, but also in his school life as well from a young age.

He had a lot of friends and people really liked Charlie. They said that he was one of the most down to earth, loving, generous people that they had ever come across. He was very selfless and always was looking out for other people. He had no problems making friends and always went above and beyond for people in his community. In fact, one of his friends even made a small documentary about Charlie called Small Acts of Kindness, where he filmed Charlie going around town, handing out

flowers. This is the kind of guy that Charlie Tan was known for being. And he didn't just do that for the camera. I mean, he lived that way. He was always doing kind things for others and looking for ways that he could help. He went to Pittsburgh Menden High School where he played on the football team and was also the student body president during his senior year. And like I said, Charlie was also really

really smart and excelled academically. And his goal was to go to an Ivy league school one day. Obviously that's very hard to do, but Charlie did it. He was accepted into Cornell university and was hoping to get his degree there in economics. So you can see on the outside how people really thought the Tan family had it all. You know, they had the wealth and their kids were successful and also good people.

But the truth about the Tan family is it was filled with darkness. For as long as Charlie could remember, his life at home was disturbing. ♪

Truth was, his father, Jim, was very, very abusive and had a really violent temper and took it out on his family, but especially on his mother, Jean. Charlie and his brother, Jeff, were exposed to this violence from a very young age, and it was very traumatic for them, and they could never find a way to get help.

not only because they didn't have the right resources, but also because it was kind of frowned upon in their family to talk about your problems and your intimate home life details to other people. There were like a handful of their friends that kind of knew what was going on, were aware of

that there was, you know, arguments happening, that there was some abusive things happening in the home, but not the full extent of everything. And no one really did anything drastic to actually help Jean, Charlie, and Jeff. There was one instance when a family friend gave the boys a

piece of orange paper and told them to tape it up in their window if they ever needed help or needed someone to call 911. But Charlie claimed that even when they actually used the orange piece of paper, no one did anything. They never got the help that they needed. And over the years, 911 was called a few times, but nothing serious was ever done to stop Jim from abusing his family and especially his wife.

There were a few times that the police had Jim leave town for a few days and kind of cool off and have some space away from his family. But when he would do that, he would shut off all their utilities so they wouldn't have any running water, any electricity, any heat. They had nothing for days without him. I mean, I'm sure they appreciated not having to deal with him for a few days, but when he came back and he turned everything back on, the abuse would just start.

up right away again. Oftentimes when their parents were fighting, the boys would just have a phone ready to go so that they could call 911 if things ever got that bad. So obviously Jeff and Charlie were very eager to leave their home and this abusive environment for good, but they felt like their mother was stuck.

And that was really hard for Charlie, even though he was so excited to be going to Cornell and to pursue his dreams, he felt very concerned about leaving his mother at home. So the time finally came for Charlie to go to college and his brother, Jeff was already in college at this point. And his first year of college went well by all accounts. I mean, he was obviously very successful. He played on the university's football team. He joined a fraternity and he was maintaining a 3.4 GPA and it was great. I mean, he was free from all of

the constant abuse at home and feeling like he could live his life the way he wanted to. But when he went back for Thanksgiving that year, he was quickly reminded just how horrible life actually was at home. During just the few days that he was home, there was one instance where his father knocked his mother to the ground and choked her until she became unconscious.

And Charlie claims that his father was saying that he was going to kill her and he feared that he might actually do it. So that was enough for him to not want to come home again. And so when Christmas break came, he flew him and his mother out to Colorado to be with his brother, Jeff. So the three of them spent the holiday together and

And then it was time for him to go back to school. So he started back up at Cornell in 2015. And it's hard to know if he could have predicted what the next few months of his life would be like. But things got crazy quickly. On February 5th, 2015, Charlie went to his head football.

coach and told him that he wouldn't be at practice the next day because he had to go home and deal with some family matters. His coach was a great support system for all players. So he encouraged Charlie to go home and do what he needed to do for his family and just asked him to text him when he got there safely. So that day, Charlie made the hour and a half drive to Pittsburgh and

And along the way, he made plans to meet up with two different friends. Between 6.30 and 9.30 that evening, Charlie met up with his friend Anna and her boyfriend for dinner. And Anna said that their dinner was completely normal. Charlie seemed like his regular happy self. The three of them wrapped up dinner around 9.30 and then Charlie went over to his friend Jacob's house around 10.00.

and Jacob could tell that something was wrong. They had just got together to hang out and watch basketball, but something just seemed off to him. He said that Charlie seemed sad and kind of distant, and his conversations with him just struck him as odd.

Charlie started saying some really concerning things to him. He asked him how much money he had on him. He said that he might have to leave the country really soon. And he wouldn't explain to Jacob why he needed money or might leave the country. And obviously Jacob thought that was really, really weird, but he didn't want to push him too much. But once he left, he just had a feeling that something was really wrong.

So he talked to his mother about it, and he and his mom decided to go ahead and call the police and have them go over and check on Charlie at his home. So around 1135, an officer from the Pittsburgh Police Department arrived at the Tan household and spoke to Charlie for about 10 minutes. And he said that everything seemed okay, that Charlie seemed fine, and so he left. Then the next day, February 6th, his friend Aiden,

Anna gets a text message from him and he said, I love you and we'll talk to you soon. Obviously, there's not a lot of context to this message, but just like the day before, Charlie seemed okay, so she brushed it off. It wasn't until February 9th that anyone would be clued in to the real reason that Charlie made the trip back home.

home. A very strange email with the subject line, Showtime, was sent from Charlie to his fraternity brothers at 5.13pm, and the email said, In the coming days, you'll start to hear things in the news, and possibly get a couple visits from authorities. Don't listen to anything you hear. A few already know my story, and in due time, you will also.

And then less than an hour later at 6 0 9 PM, Jean Tan makes a frantic 911 call to a Monroe County dispatcher. And in this call, Jean says that she heard an argument happening between her son and her husband, followed by a series of gunshots. And she told the dispatcher that she doesn't know where the gun was. And they tell her to call.

go ahead and wait for deputies outside of their home. And when police arrived at their house, 37 Coachside Lane, Jean and Charlie were both just waiting outside. And right away when they got there, Charlie said to them, I had to do it. He was going to kill my mom. And obviously this statement or confession ends up being a crucial part of this case. And before officers even went inside, Charlie told them that

they could find his father's body in his office and that the shotgun was in the garage. Jean echoed everything that Charlie had said and therefore Charlie was arrested on charges of second degree murder. So with Charlie now in custody, investigators from the Monroe County Sheriff's Department began to process the crime scene and almost immediately they realized something was off.

As they were spending time around Jim's body processing the scene, they started to realize that there was a strong and unmistakable smell of decay that wouldn't have started that quickly if he had just been shot. And they also realized that his blood had already began to dry. Jim's body was laying flat on the ground underneath his desk. Obviously, according to what Charlie and Jean told police, they figured that

her life was in danger when the shooting took place. I mean, Charlie literally said, I had to do it. He was going to kill my mom. But they quickly realized that this must have happened a lot earlier than they were saying. Nothing in Jim's office looked like there had

been any struggle. There was nothing disturbed. Everything was as it should be. There was no signs of a struggle anywhere in their house. After looking at his body, they realized that Jim was shot in the chest, arm, and cheek, and it was clearly an execution-style attack.

And it did not take them long to realize that Jim had been lying there for a long time and that rigor mortis had already like come and gone. If you don't know, rigor mortis is the stiffening of the joints and muscles in the body. This occurs a few hours after someone dies and the

By the time that they got to him, his body was already limp again. And like I said, there was a strong smell of decay. And they could tell that Jim's body had been there for at least two to three days at that point. So to pinpoint exactly when Jim died, they looked at his laptop, which was open on his desk. It was clearly what he was doing right before his death.

And they saw that his latest email that he opened and responded to was four days earlier on Thursday, February 5th. And that was the same day that Charlie had come home from Cornell. That's the same day that he had dinner with Anna and then went over and saw his friend Jacob and told him that he might need to leave the country. So clearly everything was falling into place here for Charlie to be convicted of murder, but

If this story was that simple, I would stop here. And there is still so much more. So while the shotgun that was used in the murder was being processed, they realized that it was actually brand new. Investigators traced it and found that it had been purchased from a Walmart in Portland, New York. But the gun wasn't registered to Charlie Tan. It was actually purchased by Charlie's fraternity brother, Whitney Knickerbocker.

And to the luck of the prosecution, surveillance footage from that Walmart actually uncovered something huge. On February 5th, the same day that Charlie went home, earlier in the day, he was caught on surveillance footage trying to purchase that exact gun. But he wasn't able to because Charlie is a Canadian citizen, not a U.S. citizen. So there would be a waiting period of a few days if he wanted to purchase the gun. And so he got his friend Whitney to make the purchase first.

So then on February 13th, a grand jury indicted Charlie Tan on his charges. And then two weeks later, it was announced to the public that his father's death occurred days before Jean Tan called 911. But even though the public knew that he had been charged with the murder of his father, the support for him was still insane. Charlie's friend, Anna, the one that he had had dinner with started the Charlie Tan support fund.

and they raised more than $45,000 to help pay for his legal team. More and more people started to find out about how abusive their home was and all the hell that Charlie had been through and that his mom likely could have been killed by his dad. It was becoming very clear that even though Charlie wasn't necessarily worried that his father was going to kill his mother that night, he felt like it was going to happen soon and that

every you know altercation they had was just a step closer to him finally doing it he felt like if he did not take matters into his own hands and stop his dad then his mother would lose her life

On March 5th, he pleaded not guilty to the charge of intentional murder and was released on a $50,000 bail pending trial. And the trial began on September 22nd, 2015. And if Charlie ended up being convicted, he would have a maximum sentence of 25 years in prison. So Charlie's defense team had two major points to why Charlie should be found not guilty.

The first is obvious, the fact that there was a long history of his father being abusive to their entire family. And two, they argued that there was not enough evidence to say that Charlie was actually the one who pulled the trigger. So first, let's talk about the longstanding history of domestic violence in the Tan house. First of all, we find out that on January 28th, just a week before Jim was shot, it turns out that Jean had been

made a frantic call to 911 sobbing because her husband had just choked her unconscious. She's extremely upset and scared talking to this dispatcher. She tells the dispatcher that she's scared and that she wants protection and that she needs an ambulance. But this call was dropped mid-conversation. And when the dispatcher calls back, Jim answered the phone. And you can hear him apologizing to the dispatcher saying, sorry about that.

several times but then you can also hear Jean in the background screaming and saying I almost died so an officer was sent to their house but by the time the officer arrived Jim was able to convince Jean you know probably by scaring her to not press charges so nothing was done the officer did give her a card with a phone number on it and information about how to get an order of protection

And this 911 call was just one out of 18 domestic violence calls that the Monroe County Sheriff's Department received from the Tan household from 2003 to 2015. So it was really no wonder why Charlie thought his father was eventually going to kill his mother.

He also received an email from his father on Christmas Eve the year prior, which stated, sometimes I really want to kill her. Now, circling back here, the second thing that I mentioned the defense relied really heavily on was the fact that there was insufficient evidence to prove that

that Charlie was the one who pulled the trigger beyond a reasonable doubt. They argued that even though he told the officers, I did it, I had to, because he was going to kill my mother, they argued that the word it does not suffice as a

an admission of guilt. They argued that if anything, it could mean covering up for his mother, who the defense argues had more motive to kill Jim than Charlie did. And I know it sounds kind of backwards, but the defense pointing the finger at Jean actually made a lot of sense and was a good tactic. She was the victim of the abuse all those years and DNA evidence from the scene didn't fully incriminate Charlie. And at the end of the day, it's about proving beyond a reasonable doubt

doubt. And the more that they introduced the idea that Gene could have done this, the more reasonable doubt there is. So the gun, the shell casings, and the ammunition inside the gun were all tested for DNA. And there were three sets of DNA found on the shotgun itself, and none of them belonged to

to Charlie. And the only thing that really linked Charlie to the weapon was one fingerprint found on the ammunition inside of the shotgun. And so the defense argued that maybe Charlie was just the one who loaded the gun and wasn't the one who actually pulled the trigger.

And during the trial, they also had several character witnesses get up there and talk about the type of person that Charlie was. Charlie was a beloved member of the community who had no history of violence and tons of history of being an incredible person. And the support for him is obviously unusual in a homicide trial, but people knew that he was just doing what he had to do to protect his mother.

But obviously the prosecution was ready to put up a fight and try to get him convicted. And not only did they believe that Charlie was a shooter, but they argued that he acted with intent. And among many of their arguments, the prosecutors referenced Charlie's email, the crime scene, his preliminary admission of guilt, standing outside of his house that night, the Walmart surveillance footage, and his actions in the days following the murder. They argued that the email that Charlie sent his fraternity brothers, titled Showtime, was

was a clear indication of his intent to kill. They said, why would he tell them that they might be hearing things in the news and possibly have to meet with authorities if he didn't know something was about to happen? And obviously they argued that the crime scene itself showed no signs of a struggle. So clearly Charlie ambushed his father.

They said if Charlie was really defending himself or his mother, the crime scene would have showed that. And then, like I mentioned earlier, him saying, I had to do it outside of his house to the officers was a huge admission of guilt. And even though the defense said that,

that it was an insufficient admission of guilt did in fact indicate that he was the killer and should be taken at face value. Next, obviously they brought up the surveillance footage that shows the gun being purchased just hours before Jim was murdered. And if this doesn't show intent, then they weren't really sure what did. And they also argued that Charlie and his mother attempted to leave the country.

It was believed that on February 6th, a day after Jim was likely killed, Charlie and his mother went to Canada in order to try and avoid being arrested. Now they obviously didn't actually flee the country, but the act of trying doesn't look good on their part. So closing arguments wrapped up on September 29th and jury deliberation began and people were expecting it to take a

little while, but five days into deliberation, the jury came to the judge and said that they were deadlocked and could not come to an agreement. The judge had them try to go back and come to an agreement, but even after eight total days of deliberation, they were still completely deadlocked. So the judge announced on October 8th that this was a mistrial.

And when I tell you that this shocked everyone, I mean everyone. Even jury members. They were tracked down and asked what they thought of the judge's decision. And they were actually pretty upset. I had no words. I was in total shock that he would decide that.

I WAS ABLE TO SEE THE PEOPLE WHO WERE IN THE CASE. I DIDN'T FEEL THAT JUSTICE WAS SERVED AT ALL. AFTER LONG DAYS AND HOURS OF GRUELING DELIBERATION, TAN TRIAL JURORS CHRISTINA MCDONALD AND TRACY CARPENTER ADAMS FEEL LIKE ALL THEIR EFFORTS WENT DOWN THE DRAIN.

trial by jury. And in the end, it was basically a trial by judge's decision. And I don't think that's the way things are supposed to go. I'm not even sure if Charlie and his lawyers expected that outcome. I don't think they did. And it's important to remember here that a mistrial isn't a win. They basically have to go start all over and do a new trial after all the time and work that was put into this trial. Are their jobs harder than ours? Of course we are. Uh,

We came into this expecting to win, frankly. Anybody that comes into a trial and is satisfied by a hung jury,

is crazy. So we're disappointed. The prosecution was just as disappointed, and they said they were going to work hard to get their conviction the next time around. Prosecutors say they'll do more in their next trial to prove their case, but they say Charlie Tan will be tried on the same intentional murder charge. I think when you shotgun somebody three times,

So Charlie's next hearing took place on November 5th, 2015. This hearing was supposed to determine the next steps that would be taken before trial, but instead the judge made another shocking and honestly completely unexpected statement.

The judge ended up dismissing the trial altogether. They said that there was not enough evidence to justify a new trial, and so Charlie was a free man. An elated Charlie Tan emerged from the courtroom ready to speak publicly for the first time before being ushered away by his attorneys. His friends left the courtroom in tears.

It was anticipated that at today's hearing, Judge James Papiano would schedule a date for a retrial after the first one ended in a hung jury. But in a shocking turn of events, Papiano instead granted a motion by the defense to dismiss the murder charge. The DA's office says that essentially bars them from retrying Tann on charges related to his father's death. And to say that the prosecuting attorneys were not happy would definitely be an understatement. They were very angry.

The lead prosecutor even tried to argue with the judge's ruling and he reminded the judge of a few important things. First, Charlie said, "I had to do it," and that his own mother said he did it. Next, he reminded the judge how he told a friend of his he was going to leave the country. And lastly, how he had a friend of his purchase the gun when he wasn't able to. In fact,

he got pretty annoyed with this prosecutor for questioning his decision and threatened the prosecutor with jail time if he didn't cooperate. So he meant business. This was over. And like I said, with that, Charlie was a free man. Well, in a word, it was stunning. I don't think anyone in the courtroom anticipated what was going to happen this morning, citing a lack of evidence tying Charlie Tan to the murder of his father.

Judge James Papiano this morning dismissed the charges putting an end to this case, but not before nearly having the prosecutor arrested for challenging the judge. Inside the courtroom, it got contentious between the judge and prosecutor Bill Gargan and even led to some shouting. Gargan interrupted the judge at one point while he was in the middle of his ruling, and Papiano threatened to have him handcuffed and taken out of the courtroom if he didn't stop talking.

WHEN GIVEN A CHANCE TO SPEAK, GARGAN ACCUSED THE JUDGE OF HAVING AMNESIA ABOUT THE EVIDENCE, WHERE CHARLIE TAN TOLD AN INVESTIGATOR HE QUOTE, HAD TO DO IT. HE WAS GOING TO KILL MY MOTHER. THE JUDGE CALLED THE AMNESIA QUIP OFFENSIVE AND INDIGNANT AND GAVE GARGAN A CHANCE TO TAKE IT BACK, BUT HE REFUSED. Because amnesia means you've forgotten things. And when it appeared that the court had not utilized other evidence in the record...

I wanted to point that out. Personally, I wish that this case wrapped up there, but unfortunately, there is more to this story. In March of 2017, a court of appeals met in regards to the decision to dismiss the case, and it was ultimately determined that the judge's decision was not accurate based on the law, and because of double jeopardy laws, nothing could be done to change it. Charlie could never be charged with the murder of his father again.

And for the next two years, Charlie was a free man and he attempted to move on with his life the best he could. And things were going really great for Charlie. And I'll explain a little bit more about what he did in this time later, but the prosecuting attorneys just could not let this go.

And on September 22nd, 2017, just as Charlie was returning to the United States from Canada, he was arrested on three new charges, including one count of receiving a firearm with intent to commit an offense and two counts of making false statements during the purchase of a firearm.

And obviously these charges are based on the Walmart surveillance footage showing that Charlie attempted to buy the gun. And when he couldn't, he had his friend Whitney do it. Now, Whitney, on the other hand, was not charged with conspiracy because he took a deal. But this surveillance footage was kind of the prosecution's smoking gun. So Charlie ultimately ended up pleading guilty to these charges in federal court on June 22nd, 2018. Good evening. Tonight, a guilty plea from Charlie Tan, but not suspicious.

TAN HAD ALREADY BEEN TRIED FOR THE MURDER OF HIS FATHER IN THEIR PITTSFORD HOME IN 2015. IT ENDED IN A MISTRIAL AND THE JUDGE EVENTUALLY DISMISSED THE CHARGES. NOW IT APPEARS CHARLIE TAN WILL HAVE TO SERVE TIME IN PRISON AFTER ALL.

- What we did today was we pled guilty to the elements of the crime that he's charged with, which is obtaining a gun with the intent to commit a felony at that time. That's what he pled guilty today. Nothing more, nothing less. - Altogether, he could end up serving time served based on the discretion of Judge Scullin,

or he could serve the maximum of 25 years. We'll find out in October. And while he was awaiting his sentence, Charlie wrote a letter to the judge, and I feel like it's best that I just read it how it is. I had just begun my fourth semester at Cornell when my brother began hinting at another fight at home. He was living in Colorado and cryptic in his messages. I took this as a sign to call my mom and learned that her and my father had their worst fight yet. He choked her until she nearly lost consciousness.

So clearly Charlie felt like he had no other option. This was the only way he could save his mother's life. He went on to tell the judge that growing up, he was taught to not let anyone in mentally or physically.

And he realizes this was harmful to him because had he known he could reach out to someone about the abuse towards his mother, he would have tried to fight for her in the right way. Charlie then told the judge what he would do if he was granted a second chance. And this would technically be his second second chance.

because he was given a first second chance after being acquitted for the murder charge. In this part of his letter, he said, Charlie then talks about how he ended up moving to Chicago to attend Chicago State University, the only school out of 24 he applied to to actually accept him.

And he said that while he was living in the south side of Chicago, he befriended four of his neighbors and the 13 children among them. And these connections are what helped him realize what his true passions in life were. And this is what he says. My experiences these past two years have made my direction for the future clear. My strength is working with adolescents. My dream is to open an after-school facility for them to engage in a mixture of academic workshops and sports training.

to teach them the discipline of balance, to let them dream of collegiate athletics, which guarantees they will further their education, and most importantly, to instill the theme that my mentors have taught me, to pay it forward with servant leadership. All I need is the opportunity to do so.

And this is the part where I personally wish this ended so differently. And I hate even having to say this, but in the end, Charlie Tan was sentenced to 20 years in prison and he's currently serving his time at the Raybrook Federal Prison in Lake Placid, New York.

Good evening, everyone. That breaking news out of Syracuse tonight where Pittsburgh man Charlie Tan has been sentenced to 20 years in prison. That's right. Tan was sentenced in federal court on three gun charges related to the illegal purchase of a weapon, which prosecutors say was used to kill his father. In November of 2019, Charlie publicly admitted guilt to the murder of

his father. And Charlie explained everything in an affidavit. He said that after finding out about the incident on January 28th, he was determined to save his mother by any means necessary. And after jumping through hoops to obtain a shotgun, Charlie says that he went into their house, through the back door, went straight up the stairs into his father's office and shot him.

three times. He admitted that he then told his mother to pack up her belongings because the two of them were headed to Canada. But that night on the 5th that they started to pack up their things, the officer that Jacob had called for a wellness check showed up. Charlie said he remembered trying to act as calm as he could. Meanwhile, he knew that his father was dead on the office floor inside. After the officer left, he and his mother drove to Toronto. And from there, they made a plan to get travel visas and head to Shanghai.

He said that they got their travel visas on February 9th and they were going to go, but suddenly Charlie had a change of heart and he felt like they would be leaving his brother Jeff behind and he just couldn't do it. And at that point, that's when they decided to...

call 911 and pretend that this had just happened. And I don't think there was too much thought about that plan. And we all know how the story went from there. But yeah, Charlie is currently in jail serving his time. So I definitely want to hear from you. Do you think that

This ended the way that it should have? Should Charlie have served some time for what he did? Should he have found another way to get help for his mother? Or do you think that this qualifies as self-defense and that Charlie was just doing what he had to do? Do you think it should have just been left at a mistrial and ended there?

That is going to be it for me today, guys. Thank you for joining me for another episode and make sure you follow the show on Spotify and Apple podcasts. It really does help me out. If you want to watch the video version of this show, you can find it on my YouTube channel, which will be linked, or you can just search Kendall Ray. I will be back with another episode soon, but until then stay safe out there.