Normal in America Sucks - Don't Be Normal! 02:03:33

From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Our phone number here is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225.

George Camel, Ramsey personality, host of the George Camel Show on YouTube and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour and author of the brand new book that launches today, Breaking Free from Broke. He is my co-host today, and today is book launch day around Ramsey. I hear we're

Putting George's new book into the wild officially. It's been shipped, and a bunch of you should be getting it in your mailboxes today or tomorrow, depending on where you live and how all that works. Breaking Free from Broke, The Ultimate Guide to More Money and Less Stress. The pre-sales on this were excellent. Thank you guys for participating with us on that. And for those of you that haven't gotten the book, well, this will be a great week to go ahead and get it.

Breaking Free from Broke. And George, this has been quite a project. You guys have done the research that went into this book and the new things that we did with the audio book. There's a lot of things that we did here that we've never done before. I like to do things the hard way, apparently, Dave. And it's always worth it in the end, but it can be a grind to get there. And this one review sums it up, which is so beautiful. Self-deprecating, honest, data-driven, and pop culture-filled.

I'll take that. That's exactly what I aim to do. Can we write a money book that's easy to understand, conversational, funny, relevant, and data-driven? And I think we accomplished all of that. It is. It does have all that. I mean, a data-driven automatically sounds boring to me when you say that. Well, it's just not my opinion. When you put it in there with George's snark.

and his pop culture references, suddenly it comes alive. We bring it to life. And yet the audio book, I read it myself. A lot of people are asking, and the team did an amazing job with sound design and effects, and you even hear Dave pop in at random points with some quotes. And so we just tried to bring it to life. I love audio books, and I think if you love audio books, you're going to enjoy this. But the hardcover, if you pre-ordered, came with all of that for free. So you got the email this morning, which is very exciting. So it's like Christmas morning for me. I couldn't sleep last night, Dave. Yeah.

It's exciting. I was pumped, amped up for the feedback and to see how many people break free from broke in 2024. Well, and doing a book is a, I mean, it's a task.

There's a lot of work involved. We've been fooling with this for a year. Over a year, yeah. And getting one out into the wild, you can throw them out there or you can do them properly. And we do them properly here at Ramsey. And this is your first one. So, I mean, you had a baby this year and you birthed a book. I literally submitted the final as we were in the delivery room, Dave. Oh, my gosh. It was a real nail-biter. Yeah. But, I mean, your first book is not unlike your first kid in a lot of ways. I mean, it's a lot of...

It's a little scary. It's super exciting. It's all of those things at once. And congratulations. I'm very proud of you. Thank you. Well, I like to say that I'm a turtle on a fence post. We have an amazing team here at Ramsey. You've built an amazing platform with amazing fans. And I just hope this book can carry the torch. You called it Financial Peace for the Next Generation in the foreword. And I feel like that's what we're doing here. We are taking this message and making it even more relevant and showing people it's still possible and that the principles still work.

Now, those of you that have friends that are sick of Dave and his boomer-isms, well, that's fine. Now you've got George. Millennialisms. Saying the same thing in a lot better, a lot more culturally relevant ways because he actually cares.

Yeah, Dave's like, I haven't seen a movie since 2003. I'm just like, get off my lawn. That's it. So with undeniable research and data, Georgia exposes the most common money myths and excuses head-on. Credit card schemes, investment traps, mortgage myths, all of this you hear today.

promoted nowadays on Instagram, on TikTok, YouTube, bad stuff out there floating around on some of these platforms and really nasty results if you actually infect yourself with it. And you're going to get the knowledge and the confidence to break free from a system and some people that believe lies and

so that you don't end up broke because there are real villains out there in this story. Oh, absolutely. And you've been fighting those villains for years, Dave. But now, back in the day, it was radio. You had to have a book. Now everyone with an Instagram account can just be spewing this crap out there to get clicks and views and get them to buy their insurance product. And so I just want to help people clear the noise and go, it's so simple to build wealth if you just

change your inputs change your paradigm and start creating the right habits yeah i mean common sense can can show up in any generation or generations and it has really over the years and so now it's shown up definitely for the millennial the gen z and whoever else wants to read breaking free from broke the ultimate guide to more money and less stress yeah pick it up guys it's uh it's

Very, very well done. Very proud of it. Also, every book includes a special offer for you to get three months of the premium version of every dollar, which includes the bank connectivity, the paycheck planning tool, all of that for free.

three months free and basically there's qr codes in the book that allow you to do that right you scan the ur code it takes you right to the page you enter your email and you've got an account set up and i wanted this to be so practical and applicable that you read the book and you put it down and then go actually follow the plan you actually create the budget for 90 days which is how long it takes on average for folks to get the budget dialed in and that's really the crux of this money plan you want to live on less than you make you got to make a plan for your money

And that comes down to doing a budget. So it's one of the chapters in there. It's not a book about budgeting, but there's a big chapter called Budgeting is Freedom that will help you get a grasp on what it takes to finally get your money dialed in. The endorsements we got for it are pretty phenomenal. Damon John from Shark Tank, our friend Mike Rowe from Dirty Jobs, Graham Stephan, one of the biggest YouTubers out there today, our friends The Minimalists.

And, of course, Rachel Cruz, she has to endorse it, though, because she had to. You sit next to her and you would have bopped her on the head. She was happy to. But I also forced her. And some of them didn't even make it to the back cover. We had John Maxwell. We had Seth Godin. We had Willie Robertson from Duck Dynasty. So many people were kind enough to to write a good word about it after checking it out and saying, I endorse this. I'm going to put my name behind it because I think it's going to help people with their money this year.

Yeah, very cool. So launch day around Ramsey. We don't always take a segment for books, but we always do on launch day. Means a lot. We're going to do that for sure today and have just to make sure you guys all know about this. Breaking Free from Broke, the ultimate guide to more money and less stress. You can get it anywhere great books are sold, including RamseySolutions.com or Amazon or your bookstore, Barnes & Noble, Books A Million, all of them have got it.

Most every book outlet purchased them from us and should have them on the shelves today.

for launch day. So wherever you need to pick it up, you can pick it up that way. Certainly you can get in touch with us at RamseySolutions.com. We'll take care of you. All of them, regardless of where you purchase it, have that QR code inside that will give you three months of the premium version of every dollar for free. That's worth it alone. That is a greater gift than the cost of the book. Exactly. That's a bargain. That's a serious bargain. But still read the book. It's worth the read. Ha ha ha!

Breaking Free from Broke, The Ultimate Guide to More Money and Less Stress, George Campbell's brand new book out today. This is The Ramsey Show.

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NMLS ID 1591. NMLS ConsumerAccess.org. Equal housing lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Dake is with us in Savannah, Georgia. Hi, Dake. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I wanted to ask your opinion here. I'm getting ready to build my first home.

And I'm not sure if you're familiar with like the barn dominium style, but that's what it's going to be. Yeah, sure. It's on some family land. My dad's going to deed out like five acres. We own like 400, but I was wanting to know, what's your opinion on, on barring against the land and what the value of the home would be? I'm going to be doing, I would say 85% of the work myself, other than having, you know, buying the actual building and having somebody put it up.

That's about it. Maybe some tile work. But if you could, if you got it appraised before going to get a bank loan, if I only truly needed 50 grand and they were willing to give me, say, 80, would you take the 80 and kind of use it and speed up the process? Or would you only borrow truly what you need to get it started and slowly do it?

speed up the process what do you mean getting that get in the home getting the home built oh you mean hiring people to do it faster than you would have done it by yourself yes okay all right so that i i've what i would like to do you know are you married i am not actually actually

was in a relationship she was she was she was great but she was well i was asking i was not asking about you i just wondered about the the dynamic of the barn dominium okay so uh this is just for you though that that's that's good the uh um all right so okay there's several thoughts coming to mind the first thing is um what's your household income what do you make

I'm an apprentice electrician, so right now probably $35,000 a year. But that's based off of percentages, what I would top out as a journeyman. So $35,000. What do you make next year? When do you finish your apprenticeship? I will be done about a year from now. Okay, what do you make after that?

I could travel on the road. I could make anywhere between $90,000 to $200,000. Is that what you're going to do, travel on the road? Yes. Yes. Okay. All right. So $30,000, if you're making $90,000, $30,000 extra debt on a home is not that big a deal, right? Yes, sir. Okay. So if you want to hire out part of it done and you want to have an $80,000 loan rather than a $50,000 loan, that's not the end of the world. No problem at all with that. Okay. Okay.

Now, I do want you to think, how old are you? 24. Okay. I have a barn with an event barn on our farm that's very nice with a nice, really nice one-bedroom studio apartment built into it, a barn dominium, if you will, which basically is a very large doghouse. If I get thrown out, I can run over there, okay? I don't live there, but it's the same concept, all right? But I have a five- and a 10-year plan for

for that property. I'm thinking out into the future. I didn't just randomly build it. So I'm a little bit concerned that five years from today, you meet someone and her goal in life is not to live in a barn. I understand that. So what are you going to do with it then? I would like to turn it into a shop.

You know, if I had to. Okay, so if you bought a home somewhere else and moved in with your future wife 10 years from now, you would just keep this as a barn? I would use it as an office space. I don't plan on going anywhere, Dave. I'm pretty hell-bent on it being, you know, home-based for me for the rest of my life. It's on our family property. I love the area. I've loved growing up there. And that's, you know, that's what I want, and that's where I'm going to be. Okay. Okay.

I'm just presupposing that you might marry someone that doesn't agree with that and they might want to live somewhere other than a barn. And you might not. It's okay with me if you stay there. I'm not mad at you for it. But I just want you to have a good, I want you to be very thoughtful about how this thing could be utilized in the future if it is not where you live.

And I want you to be thoughtful when you're designing this, when you're building it about that. And even when you're having discussions with your family about the fact they're giving you five acres out of their 400 to do this, because you can really get in a pinch. Yeah, this could end up being just very expensive office space one day. And so we just don't want you to step into something that's going to be hard to step out of. And if you could pay cash for it, I mean, if you're going to be making 90, continue to live on less than you make, you could be able to cash flow this whole thing.

Well, or pay the 80 off in a very, very short period of time and be debt-free. Yeah, like two years or something. These projects usually are more of a headache than you realize. Yeah, it takes a lot more. Tanner's in Minneapolis. Hi, Tanner. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? Yeah, so I have an opportunity on the table where I can advance my career by taking a new position, and it will include a title change that is better than the one I currently have and a raise.

I'm just wondering how do you think I should go about approaching my current company and current boss about the opportunity I have on the table and not destroying my relationship with this company and the people that I work with. What is your goal? Are you quitting? Yeah, I'd be leaving and moving to a new company. How do you maintain relationships when you quit? Is that your question? Yeah, I don't want to ruin it because then down the line if

I reconnect to them. I don't want them to be like, oh, this guy left me. I hate him now. What do you mean reconnect? Like you'd need a job there again? No, but if they move to a new company and we're still in the same network and then I want to reach out and say, hey. Okay, I got you. You're just saying I want to do this with class. Okay. Number one, you can't control someone else's response. All you can do is have your side of the equation with class. Okay? So, I mean, if they're short-sighted and...

or whatever, then they're just going to be that. You can't keep them from being that. But when someone leaves Ramsey, if they come in and go, gosh, our time here was incredible. Uh, you know, we, we love being here. We're going to miss all you guys. Um, I hate leaving. It's one of the best places I've ever been. Uh,

But here's my two-week notice because I got a $50,000 raise and a title change, and I got to go that way. But, man, it's been awesome working with you guys. I mean, then we don't get mad. We don't shun you in the future if you do that. If you come in and give us a double-fingered –

a double-fisted middle finger and go, I'm out of here in an hour. And then you go trash the employer. You people suck, and then everywhere you go, you talk negatively about your time here. Then guess what? Then we're not going to be friends. Hello. Well, no kidding, right? But we're good friends with a lot of people that used to work here, and that's both on them and on us, right? Does that make sense? Awesome. Is that what you're talking about, Tanner? I mean, am I missing something or –

No, no, you nailed it right on the head, I guess. Do you have this job offer? You have the contract?

Yeah, we're actually negotiating salaries right now. Okay. I've seen it happen where it backfires. You tell your employer, I'm out, the other job didn't land yet, and then you're in a real pickle. And so just be careful as you approach that. Yeah. Yeah, no, I already have. We're just in salary negotiations. I've already signed a letter of intent for it there. It's just now we're nailing down just the X's and O's and everything. So a lot of ethics questions, Tanner, particularly business ethics questions, can be solved by the simple question,

Yeah. Yeah.

And, um, gosh, if I can ever help you or serve you in the future and be your friend, I want to do that. And thank you for all the good that we got to do together and the work we did and lots of gratitude and, um, you know, all that kind of stuff. So that if you do all that, then that'll help you with, I always just reverse the moccasins and walk in the other guys for a few minutes. And that helps me know what to do.

Book launch day today for George Camel. The new book, Breaking Free from Broke, is out. It's officially in the wild. George is my co-host today, Ramsey Personality.

Big time YouTube star and now hopefully best-selling author. So check it out. Love that. And Dave, you were on an episode on my YouTube channel of Millionaires in Cars Getting Coffee, and it has blown up. It's the number one video on our channel. Y'all posted it? We posted it. You thought that was just for us? I was a little worried about that. It was crazy.

So I start with, I was worried that I was riding in a Tesla, but... That was the best part. We talked about how you've been skydiving, you've done some risky things, and yet you were most freaked out about just riding around in this. I was afraid I was going to burn up. I mean, those things catch on fire. I need to get you a shirt that says, I survived George's Tesla. I survived a Tesla ride. That was fun. But you took us very kindly over to your barn. Oh, yeah.

That was fun. And you gave us a little tour, and you made me some coffee, and we had a great chat about building wealth and how you're spending your money this year. And so if you want to go check it out, it's on my YouTube channel. I had to get the coffee maker working, but... That was the toughest part. Fancy coffee makers are hard to run, man. Back in my day, you just had the old bun, glass, coffee, you know, pot. The Mr. Coffee. The Mr. Coffee. There we go. Simpler times. Yeah. All right, Keisha is with us in Atlanta. Hi, Keisha. Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hey Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So my husband and I got married about four months ago. Congratulations. Thank you. We're both very excited about it. So we've begun the process of combining money, but I think we've semi-combined it. And we have some money things about to happen, and I just have questions on how to move forward as far as money is concerned. Like what? What's your question?

Sure. So we own two homes. I own a home. He owns a home. And he has a tenant currently, but his home needs some work. More money than we can afford to put into the home to get what market value calls for it. So he's made the decision to go ahead and sell the home. I make probably $80 to $90 a year, and he's making about $60,000.

65 a year. I also have a business, a seasonal business that brings in some income. And so my income, my seasonal business, his equity, his income, do we throw all into the same pot or do I keep my business separate? How does that work? Okay. The couples that we see that have the best quality marriage and the highest probability of building wealth combine everything.

There's no yours and mine at all. It's all we. You become French. We, we. Got it. Got it. So it's we now own two houses. One he used to live in and one I used to live in. The one he used to live in, we are thinking we should sell it

but it needs some repairs, and so we're trying to figure out what to do with that. I run a business. How do I do that? How do I combine the income from that business into our new household? You hear my pronouns changing? Yeah. There's no more yours and mine. It's all we and our. Yeah. So we've created a joint account. We have a joint account that we just opened, but we also have our separate accounts that our income gets put into. No reason. They should all go in the same account.

It forces you to combine your dreams.

And when you combine your dreams and you combine your fears, you start to have this. Now, George, you and Whitney have been married how long? Five plus years now. So you guys went through this because you were both young professionals with your own everything before you got married, right? We have it so simple that it's stupid. How did you combine it, though? I had my checking account, and I made that a joint checking account, added her to it. She closed hers, and now we have a joint checking and a joint savings account.

That's it. That's it. And so you can do the same with, you have a business checking. That's why I used to have. You have a business operating account, but when you take money out of the business called profit or income and it quote comes home, then it goes into the joint account and it's part of our income. Does that make sense?

Yeah, that makes sense. And I guess, you know, any personal expenses like hair and nails, whatever, it just comes out of that account. The two of you together talk about your budget before the month begins. We lay out what we are going to spend our money on. And since he's newly married, he's very smart, and he's going to include hair and nails in our budget.

Yeah, I think all that makes sense. And I think one of our both biggest fears is that we both have children of our own. My son, his father passed away years ago. And so his care has always been top of mind for me. And it's scary to let his financial care just leave my grasp alone. You know, how old is your son?

He's now 19 in college, and so he's still being financially cared for throughout his life. But your new husband married into that. Yeah. He knew that you had this on your heart, that you wanted to continue to give your 19-year-old some support until he launches into manhood, right? Correct. Correct. Yeah. And so we can do that.

Yeah.

Right. Exactly. And vice versa for his daughter. Exactly. So just streamline this. You got one checking, one savings. Now we can make as many line items in the budget as we want. And there's just full transparency and accountability for those items. Yeah. We have agreed to take care of his daughter and your son.

Because it's something that we are concerned about. And if he's not concerned about the 19-year-old and you're not concerned about his daughter, you all shouldn't have gotten married. Yeah, definitely. No, I don't think that's the issue. I don't think it is either. That's what I mean. No. Yeah, I mean, because it all comes with a package. You don't get to set these things off to the side in a silo. They're all wrapped together whether you want them to be together or not.

And so that's why the marriage vows in sickness and in health, for richer, for poorer. And the old marriage vows in the Book of Common Prayer said, unto thee all my worldly goods I pledge.

I like that. That's old school, but you know what? The current data confirms that that is the best route relationally and as a probability for wealth building. It's amazing what happens when you have shared goals, shared dreams, shared vision, shared bank accounts. Shared fears. Shared fears, and you put it all out there. What most people do, Dave, is they brush it under the rug. They keep separate accounts because it will avoid conflict.

Which really just means I'm going to have resentment later. It also means I basically have a secret. Exactly. You know, I have a part of my life that is not. That I'm not willing to share. That is not open to my spouse. Ooh, danger, danger, danger, danger.

That's what most culture tells you, Dave. You've got to have five bank accounts, and he's got to have his and hers. No, have one budget, and she can have a line item for hair care and nails, and he can have a line item for fun money there. But that transparency is what causes marriages to succeed. That culture that's giving that bad advice is the one where 52% of the marriages end in divorce, and they're the ones that stand slack-jawed and look at me with their mouth open and go, you've been married 42 years? What's the secret to a successful marriage? Yeah.

Yeah, well, there it is, buddy. You know, so, yeah, what the culture, you know, that's like, you know, saying the culture believes nutrition. Who cares about this? What this culture believes about nutrition? This culture is obese. Who wants to who cares about what this called? You know, this culture says about money. This culture is broke. Why are we listening to normal?

Nobody wants to be normal. That's a great question, Keisha. Thank you for calling in with that and your sweet spirit on the way you're approaching it. You know, I want to give Keisha a gift. Can we give her Financial Peace University and our EveryDollar budgeting app to help them get on this plan together? I think we can. We did it. That's our late wedding gift. I like that. There we go. We didn't get invited to the wedding, but you'll get a gift anyways, Keisha. So hang on the line. Austin will pick up. We'll gift you Financial Peace University. Watch all nine lessons with your spouse and work on that budget together.

Georgia, if she had only known, she would have invited you. I'm sure. I've gotten invited before. It's very kind, but I go, I'm not traveling to Boise. Sorry. Maybe next time. This is The Ramsey Show. Are you working the baby steps? One of the smartest and most impactful changes you can make is to ditch your cash value life insurance plan, if you have one, and replace it with a term life policy. Listen, the only thing a cash value policy is good for is overcharging you

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The Ramsey Show Question of the Day is brought to you by Neighborly, your hub for home services. There are a lot of things you need to remember when the weather gets cold. Thankfully, Neighborly has a free winter maintenance checklist that can help save you time and hassle. Check it out at Neighborly.com slash Ramsey. Neighborly.com slash Ramsey. Today's question comes from Jenny in Alabama.

I'm new to the baby steps and really want to get on board, but my husband is reluctant to do them. A couple of years ago, we ran a restaurant and made really good money. Lifestyle creep set in, and we now have almost $58,000 in debt on a car, four-wheelers, credit card, and home equity loan. We currently only have one income, which is mine, bringing in around $3,600 a month. I want to become debt-free, but my husband considers our debts to be normal expenses. How do I go about doing the baby steps without the support of my husband?

Can't. Got to get the support of the husband. You didn't sign up for the solo trip. You're married. You start acting like it. And I think we both need to own the decisions we've made. You need to have a hard conversation with him. And I don't know what he's doing. You said you have the only income. I don't know if he's staying at home or what the heck's going on, but we need more income coming in to clean up this mess and probably need to sell everything we can, including those four wheelers. Yeah. The, um,

But I think that the core issue here is that you can't be the only adult in the relationship. And so the both of you, you know, if my wife comes to me and says, this matters to me, I need you to put the phone down, turn off the TV and listen. Well, I do not because I'm a wuss, but because I love my wife. And if something really matters to her, even if I don't get it,

I'm, you know, I'm going to listen to her and think about what it is she's saying and give her a hearing on that. And so basically it's not the baby steps that matter. It's the two of you deciding to plan to have a future together.

and not be in denial about your situation. And so it's not about Ramsey or about every dollar or about baby steps. It's about, you know, we need to do something different because where we are sucks and, uh, we need to be in a different situation. I think you two need to have that discussion. And if he won't come around on that, you got husband problems. You haven't got financial problems at that point.

um or wife problems or whatever as you people are facing out there right whoever it is that's listening to this it has in a similar situation so but don't use ramsey or the baby steps or anything else to beat him over the head this is a thing where the two of you honey i'm scared thirty six hundred dollars worth of income all this debt it may feel normal to you i'm terrified

And I'm requiring that we do something about this. One thing we could do is look at this Ramsey stuff, but I'm not okay. I'm laying awake at night. I'm freaking out. I'm scared.

You should be. You got $3,600 a month in income and all these bills going out. And he's right. This debt is normal. But normal in America sucks. You don't want to be normal. Normal is on the edge of bankruptcy and looking good. Owning a bunch of crap you can't afford with money you don't have to impress people you don't even really like. That's normal. Who the crap wants to be normal?

He sounds like a kid that got too many toys and he's just happy with his toys as well. This is normal. We're just going to have fun. Well, the fun is over. You're not having fun anymore. Yeah. I mean, it's the math quit working here. Boys and girls. I mean, thirty six hundred dollars. Oh, and she said she admitted lifestyle creep set in. And that's most people. They think, well, Dave, if I just made more money, we did. We wouldn't have any problems. Also, back when he worked, apparently he's not working.

Right? Did I get that right? Yeah. My husband. So we currently only have one income, which is mine. So why is he not working? What happened? You know what I mean? There's that. So, I mean, yeah, we need to create some more income and we need to clean up the dadgum messes that we've made, either sell these things or get them paid off. And no, yeah, debt is normal, but it's not okay. I don't want to be normal. I don't want to be in debt. I don't want to live like this. And so this, you know, this is going to change.

And, you know, this is a marital discussion that you've got to have. But there is not a method. I've been doing this 30 years. I have never figured out a way to

that drag a spouse into it, that you can get us, you can, you know, go do this by yourself and hope they come along. We've never seen a debt-free screen where they went, well, Dave, really, I did this on my own because they didn't want to do it. Every single time it said we got on this plan together. Being on the same page. They say that all the time. Being on the same page. We worked the budget together. They said every time. Now, it's not unusual for one to be

More gun ho about it. More and, you know, have more of the initiative. But, you know, how can I go about doing the baby steps without the support of my husband? You really can't. You really can't. Because you really can't do hardly anything in your life when you're married.

Without the support of your spouse. It's like trying to run a marathon with chains on. How can I go get a four-year degree? You could probably, but it's hard. It's dadgum near impossible. It'll destroy the relationship or what's left of it, that's for sure. To go uphill. A lot of resentment. Williams in Jacksonville, Florida. Hi, William. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, thank you for taking my call. Sure, what's up?

Okay, so here in probably the next month or two, I will be going into the Navy and hopefully receiving a sum of money that I am not accustomed to. And I was wondering if I should save all of the money I make in the Navy since I'll be living with little to no expenses, or if it would be better invested somewhere else. So how much money are we talking here? About $75,000. Wow. Good for you. And thank you for your service.

Thank you. So how much money do you currently have? Currently, I have in savings around $6,000. Okay. And what does this look like over the next few years? Is there an end of the contract or what's next for you after this?

Uh, well, it is a career that the Navy can carry me through until retirement, but I can also leave the Navy and make a lot of money working other places for what I'm going in for. Okay. The reason I ask is because if you have a long time horizon, investing this money is wise. But if you're going to need this money in two, three, four years, it's going to be better off sitting in a high yield savings account ready to work for you when you need it. So if you don't have any future goals like that, it could be okay to invest a portion of that.

And I would label the investment or wherever you put the money, the savings account, I would give it a name. Okay, this is my house fund. I'm saving up to pay cash for a house. Or this is my, I want to be a millionaire fund. Or give it a name. Every dollar ought to have an assignment. You know what I'm saying? Because if you just kind of lay it there and it has savings on it, then that means you can use it for anything, including something stupid. Okay. So I would give it a name.

an inspirational name that causes you to stay, you know, I can't use that. That's my money for my house. I can't use that. That's my money for my whatever. And it keeps you from going and buying, you know, something silly with it. But I think you also, let me tell you, I always think people ought to do three things with money and at different stages of life would be how you wait the three things.

but you should be generous with some of the money. You should invest some of the money, and you should enjoy some of the money. So I wouldn't put 100% in savings or investments.

Uh, I would, I would put, I would, after generosity and enjoyment, I might put the bulk of it in investments that you might wait it very heavily towards that, but pull some money out for enjoyment. You're in the Navy. You're going to be working really hard and you're gonna be doing some wild, wonderful things out there. And, uh, you know, so get some, have, have some enjoyment. The problem is most people, that's their only thing. They, all they do is just burn. It's been a hundred percent on spending. Yeah.

So, and a lot of your buddies are going to be doing some really, your new friends are going to be doing some really stupid things with money. So you don't want to emulate them. But you ought to very intentionally have this much for fun, this much for generosity, the rest of it, the big bulk of it going into saving your investment and give that saving your investment a name first.

And that keeps your hands off of it, keeps you from being tempted to buy something. It helps you avoid paralysis analysis, too, when you have exactly, you've kind of divvied it out already, pre-decided what you're going to do with money. Yeah, which is really good, which means they're really wise to ask this question the way you did before the money starts coming in, because this is your first big paycheck that you're going to ever have. Way to go, William. Keep it up, man. This is The Ramsey Show.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Our phone number is 888-825-5225.

It's book launch day around here. We are launching George Camel's brand new book, Breaking Free from Broke. It hits the streets literally today. And the shelves, I should say, not the streets. We're not going to throw it in the street. We're going to throw it on the shelves. That could be a strategy. But you never know. You never know. Drop it out of an airplane on somebody's head. There you go. But there you go. Breaking Free from Broke. The ultimate guide to more money and less stress. Great new book. Breaking down the villains that are out there trying to

Take your money. Well-documented, great data, and great snark. You don't want to miss it at RamseySolutions.com. You need the combo so it doesn't get too boring. There we go. Chris is with us. Chris is in Spokane, Washington. Hey, Chris, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, guys. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So I made the mistake of getting into a house with my ex-fiancee, and I just don't know where to go from there. We were in the house for about seven months, and then she decided to pull the plug on us, and I'm just kind of confused and don't know where to go and how to handle it. Wow.

You're a case study in why we tell people not to buy stuff with people they're not married to yet. Oh, I'm so sorry, Chris. Yeah. Oh, man, you got a heartbreak and you got a pain in the butt both, huh? Yeah. How long ago was the breakup? About three months ago. Who's living in the house? I moved out recently, and she's staying in the house right now. Have we discussed when we are going to sell our house?

We have discussed it, and we've actually talked to a realtor about putting it on the market, but she would only walk away with about $2,000, which I was okay with, but she wasn't up for just getting back the $2,000. Sorry. Right. Don't care. That's what I told her. Don't care what you want. You broke up. We are selling this house. Get it on the market. If she won't do that, you're going to have to hire an attorney and force her to.

Okay, and I was kind of going that route to see if I could hire somebody to get her on board to do that. No, I think you call her and go sit down and say, look, I really want to do this the easy way. There's an easy way and a hard way, but we have to get rid of this house. This house is, we are not together in the future, and we are not owning a house together in the future. We are getting rid of the house. Now, do you want to put the house on the market and let's do this nice, or are we going to have to get ugly?

Okay. I will sit down in person with her, have a very calm conversation. Don't bring up all the past. Don't bring up all your heartache and you're broken everything. It's a simple conversation about we are selling the house that we own together because we aren't together anymore. And we are doing that now. Are you on board with doing that? Because if you're not, this is going to get nasty and I don't want to be nasty. Okay.

Right. And it's been pretty nasty already. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, I would sit down and say that, like, this is the last chance. Okay. And then if she doesn't, if she says, okay, I'll put it on the market. And then she doesn't send her a letter, certified mail, uh,

return receipt requested so you have proof that the letter was delivered and saying you have 10 days to get this house on the market or i'm going to be in touch with an attorney and we are going to escalate this discussion it's going to get really expensive right because dude this is not going to go well if this drags out five years you understand that right yes and that's why i've been that's why i wanted to call yeah who's paying the mortgage

We were splitting it. And you don't live there? No. This is a problem. Right. And that's why I needed to talk to somebody because I have so many people in my life giving me different types of advice, and I listen to your guys' show quite a bit, and I figured I'd call and get some more advice. How old are you guys? I'm 30, and she's 27. Okay. And you were in the house together for seven years, or seven months. How long were you dating before all that?

Five years. Wow. So that's why it's kind of confusing and kind of heartbreak. And yeah. Oh, yeah. It doesn't make any sense at all. I agree. I'm with you. Right. Are you going to walk away with $2,000 as well? Or is it not an even split? Yeah, it'd be about it'd be about 2000 some change each, which I'm OK with doing that. But she didn't seem to be OK with that. Yeah. She doesn't have to be OK with it. And this is a stupid tax. So what is her suggestion?

um well see we did want to list it and then she said no because she would only be walking away the two so she wants to keep it and then try to put it on the market for after two years because then we wouldn't have to pay income tax as you pay equity into a house there's not any income tax if you make four thousand dollars right the income tax is 400 bucks

Yeah, that's what's going through her head. See, that's dumb. Show her how math works, and maybe that will help speed this up. Oh, God. Because we're not going to ride this out for two years as you continue to pay a mortgage and build equity, maybe. We did not buy a rental property together for us to run together that you live in. No, you broke the marriage up, and so we're selling the house. Ready, set, go.

If we lose $2,000 a piece, we're selling the house. Right. So this is not an investment that we maximize. Yeah, that was another thing I told her. It's going to cost us to sell this house too. Yeah. You're both going to have to pay a stupid tax here, and it sucks. Yeah, this is a, yeah, wow. I'm sorry, Chris. Sorry you're facing this. But, yeah, you need to, being passive in this situation instead of proactive is not going to work.

So I would sit down. I've had a lot of good things happen in conflict scenarios when I can sit down in person with someone. It changes the tone. Keep your voice real low and calm and just say, this is not going to work.

We've got to get out of this. You broke my heart. I can't stay in this with you. We're not going to own this house together. We're going to put the house on the market this week. And if you don't do that, you're going to force me to become ugly and nasty about this. And I really don't want to. I just want to get away from this situation.

Completely and now. And just real calm like that in person. Hopefully you can talk some sense into her that way without trying to do this. But really, don't bring up all the old stuff. All we're dealing with is a single issue. Get the house sold.

That's all you deal with. Don't overlay all the problems and the fights and the other stuff in the relationship with this. Or the things that you don't like about her. None of that, okay? Even if she escalates, you stay calm. Just go, look, one thing. One thing. We're talking about the house. One thing. All we got to do is get rid of the house, and then you got rid of me. And until you get rid of the house, you're not going to get rid of me. And it's going to get ugly. Don't want to do that. Please don't make me.

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Find out more at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We're so glad you are here.

Please share this show, subscribe to the show, follow the show, like the show, leave the show a five-star review. When you do all of those things, it really helps us with our ratings, our rankings, and causes other people to find out the show is here.

and we appreciate you. A whole bunch of you have obviously been doing that. We had number one on the Apple podcast last month, and that was our first time to hit that ranking, and we can attribute that largely to you guys sharing the show, following the show, subscribing to the show, and leaving nice five-star reviews. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Tom is in New York. Hi, Tom. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thank you so much for having me on today. Sure. What's up?

So I'm currently a college student. I just graduated with my undergraduate degree, and I'm now working towards an MBA. And I'll graduate here in about a year from now, so this upcoming December. And I was just wondering, you know, if I should continue to, you know, rent in this area or move back home with my parents who live in New Jersey.

Now or when you graduate with the MBA? When I graduate, yeah, because the timing with the leases and stuff for the apartment that I'm currently in, I'll have to renew sometime this spring if I decide to stay. Where's your job going to be? It's going to be either in New York City or Jersey City, so very, very close commute from where I currently live in. How old are you? Then why would you move?

I'm 22. Okay. So, okay. I'm sorry. Why would you move? The rent here is very expensive. We'll say I currently, the nice thing is I spend currently 2000 a month in rent. But I do live with my brother who's graduated. He's a full-time job. So that's, that's the nice aspect. You know, I know it's 2000 is very expensive. What will you be making? My estimate is about 90 to 95. Okay. It's pretty reasonable.

Yeah, but I didn't know if it's a good decision to tie up so much of my income into rent just for the sake of not commuting four hours a day or three hours a day. Yes, it's part of life. Part of growing up is not living in mama's basement. You're a grown man with an MBA making 90 grand. You don't live in your mother's basement. Okay. And that's just part of life. I mean, in New York City, 2000 isn't bad, dude. I mean, that's not bad at all.

Yeah. Well, it's like 4,000, but I went with my brother. I know. I had roommates up until I was married. There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. And you have a reasonable life as far as commute goes and those kinds of things.

Ultimately, you may end up making the decision that $100,000 or $90,000 is not enough to live in the city. It may or may not be. You can decide that later. But as your first step following your MBA and following getting your new $90,000 job is not to move back home with your mom. No, I would not do that. I think that would be a mistake in life.

A lot of ways, but I think it's just part of life, man. And then you got to start thinking about, okay, at what point am I going to, where am I going to be living that I end up putting down roots and buying something? But you don't have to decide that in the next 24 months. I mean, just get the job, enjoy the ride right now. You've done a great job.

I like that advice. I moved out at 20, and I needed some problems, Dave, and those look like bills. Because when I lived at home, I would spend every paycheck I made because I didn't have any bills. So I was enjoying life. There you go. Sarah's in Salt Lake City. Hey, Sarah, what's up? Hi, how are you guys? Better than we deserve. What's up? How can we help?

Um, so question first, and then I have some more background information, but my husband who's 28 and myself who's 27, we bought a $476,000 two bed, two bath condo in 2022. And we're now looking to start a family. So hopefully we'll be growing out of it sooner than we expected. Okay.

My question is, how should we tackle the mortgage in our particular situation? Should we be solely focused on paying off the mortgage or should we focus on other wealth building? Do you have any other debt? Yes, we have no personal debt, but we have two mortgages, the condo, and then another mortgage for an investment property that we have renters in. Okay. And how much is the payment on the investment property?

About $1,600. And how much is the rent on the investment property? $1,650. You should sell the investment property. You are losing money. That's shocking. Why is it shocking? A $50 cash flow is not a cash flow on a rental property. You should know that. Well, yeah, I understand that, but it's more of a... You're losing money. Why would you have an investment that loses money?

be because in the future it will hopefully make us money. Okay. The people that do that on real estate are the people that go broke doing real estate. So, um, you're, you're, you're, you have created an, uh, a destabilizing high risk situation in your life with that investment property.

I own several hundred million dollars worth of real estate. I love real estate. I have a degree in real estate. I've been doing real estate since 1978. I went broke in the real estate business in the 80s. I've done it all on real estate, Sarah. I'm a huge fan of real estate, but you've been sold a lie twice.

that the future gains in value are worth the risk that you all are taking and how much this is upsetting your current budget situation. Because this house is costing you probably $5,000 or $6,000 a year out-of-pocket minimum. Mm-hmm.

by the time in cash flow. Meanwhile, you're waiting on it to go up in value and then you're calling about how to cancel the mortgage on the other side. The way to cancel the mortgage on the other side is get rid of your negative cash flowing rental property because by the time you have vacancy legal expenses and repairs, you're losing your butt on that rental property.

One emergency away. Yeah, it's, you know, one $4,500 heating and air unit, you know, and you're just, you're baked. So that's what I would do. I'd get rid of that. As far as the current property that you're in, if you want to get rid of the mortgage on it, that's fine. Start paying the mortgage down out of your income. And then when you are ready to sell it to move to a different property because your family situation changes, then I would sell it.

But right today, you don't have to worry about that because you're, you know, it's just in the future. We're going to have a family. And I Googled it, Dave. Babies can live in condos, turns out. So you'll be okay. You mean Google said that? Google said it. It told me. Google said it. You don't need a whole lot of room to just put a crib in there, a little bassinet. The baby will be okay. It won't know the difference for the first five years of its life.

Says the father of a four-month-old. There you go. I speak from experience now, Dave, as a new dad. Yes, you do. They don't take up much room. They're so tiny. They're fairly small. My dogs take up more room than they do. Your dogs take up a lot of room. They take up emotional bandwidth, too. Living in my hen, rent-free, Dave. And very expensive to boot. Yeah, Sarah, all real estate is not good.

Only real estate that is paid for and is not causing you problems financially is good. And your property is not a good property. You're in a bad situation with it. I can't stress that enough. I know that's bursting your bubble that you read somewhere that caused you guys to do this horrible deal. But,

That's what I'm here for. I'm not a dream killer. I'm a nightmare preventer. Ooh, I like that. There's a difference. There's a difference. I don't believe in killing people's dreams, but if I can kill your nightmare, I will. And I've owned that piece of property that she owns just like that, and it is you're playing Russian roulette with your checkbook. I bet during this show we'll take a call from someone on the other side.

Who's been there. Who's said, Dave, I have to get rid of this property. We're underwater on this thing. We had an emergency. And so we just don't want that for you. Yeah. Everything was fine until we got laid off. Until it didn't work out on paper. This is The Ramsey Show. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today. He is the author of the brand new book, Breaking Free from Broke, that is on the shelf today. You can find it at your local bookstore at RamseySolutions.com or, of course...

at Amazon. Anywhere you want to pick it up. Breaking Free from Broke, today's launch day on the book. We're celebrating around Ramsey. Congratulations, George. Thank you. It's been a fun morning. It's mostly Instagram I'm checking on. Everyone's posting about their book showing up in the mail, so it's been fun. That's cool. Very cool. Rebecca is with us in St. Louis. Hi, Rebecca. How are you? Hi, good. Thanks so much for having me. Sure. What's up?

Well, my husband and I, we are big savers, and we are trying to figure out if we can afford an RV. We have been camping for a while, and we want to upgrade to an RV. The RV costs about $110,000. Right now, our net worth is about $2.4 million. Mm-hmm.

We make about $290,000 a year combined. We are currently on baby step seven. We have about $125,000 left on our mortgage. And we do have some rental properties, which is what is lifting us up.

Um, the, we owe about 450,000 on spread across five or six different rental properties that are currently cash flowing. So we're trying to decide if we should pay off our house or the rentals, or if we can go ahead and get the RV. Okay. Um, and you have 110,000 in cash? We do. Okay. How much do you have in cash?

About almost 200, about 175. Okay. And that would leave us enough for more than six months of an emergency fund. What's the balance on your personal mortgage? $125,000. Okay. And I'm 40 and my husband is 41. The way we answer questions on this show is what would I do if I were in your shoes, okay? You obviously have done very well with money. Congratulations.

You're obviously smart people. You make a lot of money. Dumb people don't make $300,000 most of the time anyway. Okay. Okay. Congratulations. Well done. Well done. So I think the way Sharon and I, I know the way Sharon and I would lay this out at our house is we would say, okay, there are three things we want to accomplish. We want to buy an RV. We want to pay off our mortgage and we want to pay off the rentals. Right. What does it take to pay off the rentals?

About $450,000. And what are they worth? They're worth about $1.2 million. Okay. All right. Okay. The slow way to do this is to lay those three things out, put them in some order of priority, and then apply the $175,000 minus an emergency fund to that priority list. Okay? Mm-hmm. And so one priority list could be pay off your home mortgage, then buy an RV, and then pay off the rentals. That could be in order. Okay.

In which case, you write a check today and pay off your mortgage. And then you save up very, very quickly out of your fabulous income and buy your RV. Right. Another order would be buy the RV first and then pay off your mortgage and then pay off the rentals. That's another order. Another order could be, if we want to do this faster, we could pick out a couple of the rentals and sell them. And when they sell, buy the RV. Right. We thought about doing that earlier.

We just are having trouble spending the money. We work so hard to save it. It's like a bed-pull block almost, even to pay off the mortgage or to buy the RV. Does that make sense? Yeah. But here's the thing. When you take out a mortgage, you've already spent the money. When you pay it off, you're just admitting it. That's true. That's true. So, I mean, you already spent the money. You bought the house.

Right, right. And here's the way, okay, one of the pieces of information that I found in the last 30 years is that wealthy people, which you are, do a good job, and I'm just going to challenge you to do this, to thinking, okay, what process here gives me the best life 10 years from today, not 10 minutes from today?

wealthy people have long the one of the things that cause you to be able to build wealth is you have long planning horizons broke people say thank god it's friday oh god it's monday i do whatever i want i'm living for the weekend i'm huey lewis and huey lewis in the news right right right and wealthy people think 10 years from now what's going to be the best and so that's how i'm trying to look at this i do think you can quote unquote afford an rv when you buy it in the order

would be just a matter of wisdom. Right. Thinking about the future. I can tell you Sharon and I would not buy the RV as the number one thing. Okay. We would pay off our house today. The mortgage. Yeah. And then I would probably rearrange these rentals to where they end up, the ones I end up keeping are debt-free, and I try to clear some money towards the RV.

Okay. Okay. I've got, I've got boats. I mean, all these toys are just toys that go down in value and you need, you know, it needs to pass the burn test. If I put that much money in the middle of the floor and burned it, does it ruin my life? And it passes the burn test. You're, you got a $2 million net worth. If you burn $110,000 in the middle of the floor, uh,

Which when you buy an RV, that's basically what you're doing. Okay. When you buy a boat, well, not buy a boat. That's what I'm doing. I'm burning them because it's just going to go down in value like crazy. I've got a boat. I got a boat that costs more than that. Okay. But, but my net worth is higher than yours. Number one, number two, I paid cash for it and I don't have a home mortgage. Number three, I don't have rental mortgages and all these other things. But, but still, can I afford to burn that much money?

And can I handle that? And I don't think you should burn $110,000 in the middle of the floor when you still have a home mortgage. Okay. What's the goal with the RV for you guys? They just love it. Just occasional travel or...

Yeah, we love it. We've been camping. We have a camper now that we're just looking to go farther. It's kind of hard. It's a little bit harder to tow with the family, and we thought this would be more fun. I'll tell you what we've done a couple of times, and we did it on a little different subject. We thought we wanted a condo as a second property in such and such a city. I won't name the city, okay?

And so what we did was we rented one there for six months and, and we went three times in the six months and we figured out we didn't want a condo. We ended up not buying in down there. I'm really glad I didn't buy a condo as a toy in that city as a little place to go when it's warmer. Right. That kind of stuff. Right. And so what you could do here is write a check.

What we might do if we were in your shoes is write a check and pay off the house today. And then for the next two years, we're going to commit to budget out of our $290,000 some RV rental fees. And I'm going to rent an RV and put it on the road and see if it's as much fun as we thought it was going to be in our mind. And, you know, am I really going to use it enough to justify this?

It might be that you end up doing that. So I don't own a house on a ski slope in the Rockies, although we rent one periodically. Right, right. But we wouldn't use it enough to justify owning it. And I don't want it as an investment. I'd rather have my investment somewhere else. So that's an example. I would rather rent.

For the few times that I go skiing, once a year maybe or twice a year or something, I can operate that property a whole. I can operate an $8 million property for a few tens of thousands a week or whatever it ends up being. A lot cheaper than I can screwing around putting $8 million over there on the side of a mountain and using it three times a year. And again, that's one of those things we figured out that we don't want to own that, even though we can, quote,

unquote afford it. So what would we do? We'd write a check today and pay off the mortgage and we'd rent an RV, a really nice one, and I'd go on a trip in the RV. And aggressively pay down the rentals or sell one. And then once everything's debt free, if you still want to buy the RV, go for it. Write a check. You'll feel better about it then. Yeah, I'd pay down those rentals by either selling some of them or aggressively pay them down. I'm with George on that as a third step. It's a good question. The answer is yes, you can afford one and you should not buy it right now. This is the Ramsey Show.

George Campbell, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. Three new books, all bestsellers. I'm predicting that for one of them. In our bookstore right now, Rachel Cruz's first ever children's book, number one bestseller on the children's list. I'm glad for what I have. Wonderful book. If you need bedtime stories for the little ones, it's great. Jade Warshaw just hit the bestseller list with her book,

A quick read on Ramsey Press, Money's Not a Math Problem, a brand-new quick read. It's only 70 pages long, so it's a quick read. And then George's brand-new book comes out today, officially launched, A Breaking Free from Broke.

Unbelievable data mixed with snark and all kinds of research to back it up. And he takes on the villains of this world that are stealing your money from you. It's books out today. I'm predicting it to be on the bestseller list this time next week. I'll take that. Quinn is on the line in Ontario, Canada. Hi, Quinn. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi there. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Hi, okay, so I am currently a student. I'm 23. I'm finishing my undergrad degree next semester, so by January of 2025, I will be finished my undergrad, and then in the fall of that year, I will be going into a further education degree. So I haven't started paying any of my student debt yet, but as someone who

has

pretty much little to no savings and wasn't really taught many financial skills. I'm worried that after I graduate and have to start paying back debt along with general cost of living that I'm going to end up in a poor financial situation and I really want to avoid that. What's your degree in, Gwen? Currently it's in political science, but my advanced degree is going to be for Teachers College afterwards, so I'll be teaching students.

Okay. And what does someone in Teachers College in Canada make?

So, after you graduate and you're in your field, starting is around $45,000 to $50,000 a year, and it gradually increases. You do get pretty good benefits if you're working in a public school just because you fall under the public sector, which is pretty well covered by the government. Yeah, that's wonderful, but the pay doesn't sound exciting.

No, but it does increase a solid amount. I know it's not a crazy amount, but it's something that I'm passionate about doing. Okay, that's wonderful. I've got no issue with that. How much student loan debt have you got?

It's really hard to say for certain. I estimate probably $40,000 currently. Unfortunately, I did not qualify for any aid from the government. It's not hard to say for certain. You have a certain amount you've borrowed. It's an exact amount.

Yes, so I started school when I was 17, so all of mine is under a line of credit as opposed to a loan. So I don't have it under my name currently. It's still under my mother's bank account. So she technically owes all of this debt? Yes, but I will be paying it back. Okay, and when you graduate, how much will you have? Probably closer to $70,000. Okay, $70,000 in debt, making...

40 or 45,000 dollars a year did I understand that right yes about that would be approximately unless things changed and it doesn't help we're also in a cost of living crisis here well it doesn't help that we're continuing to borrow money yes and so it's going to compound and making 45 it's going to feel impossible to pay this off you're going to be working three jobs for years just to clean this mess up into as you enter adulthood

Yes, and I am fully aware of that. And your mom is on the hook. Is she not concerned? Because she technically owes us money. So if you can't pay, which it sounds like you won't be able to, you're going to have a real relational issue with mom.

Yes, we've discussed it and we are working on it. She also knows that it's not a great option. Just unfortunately with her income, I literally did not receive any student support at all. We know that, but you still made the choice to go down this road. No one forced you to do this. So here's where you are.

Number one, what I would do is between now and the time you graduate, I would limit the borrowing severely by working all the time. I want you to work four jobs while you're in college. I did. I didn't die from it, and I still graduated. Yep. Okay? I want you to increase your income dramatically and your hours working dramatically between now and graduation.

to limit the amount. So let's try to not borrow anymore is what I'm saying. You got 40 in the hole right now. What if you worked enough to pay cash for it all the way out? Boy, that'd be cool. That would cut the problem in half. But that's going to be very strenuous. Oh, well, so is coming out of school and owing 75 or 80 grand. Okay, so we're going to just choose which one's going to be strenuous. So I'm going to do that, number one. Then number two, go ahead and have a plan for,

to do tutoring and or some kinds of side hustles as soon as you graduate in addition to your job as a teacher because you're going to have to increase your income over the 40 to be able to pay the 40 with, as you said, lifestyle and just the cost of living. So, yeah, there's two things we talk about around here, Quinn, all the time is shovel and hole. The hole that you're in is the debt.

The shovel is your income, and we look at the shovel-to-hole ratio. If you call me up and say, I got $80,000 in debt, and I make $300,000 a year, you got a really big shovel and a medium-sized hole. You, on the other hand, have a big hole and a small shovel, and that's what's panicking George and I for you. We're worried about you. We love you, and we want you to win. And so...

The way you're going to win is you're going to get that shovel bigger, and that's your income while you're in school goes up so that your hole doesn't get any bigger. And then number two, when you do get out of school, you're going to anticipate working more than just the main day job.

And, Quinn, I'm going to encourage you to go watch Borrowed Future. It's free on YouTube. It's our documentary on the student loan crisis. And it will also show you some steps that will inspire you to continue and try to go debt-free for the remainder of your schooling. Because we just see too many really sad stories of people's adulthood being stunted by student loans. And then the parents are calling into the show saying, my kids stopped paying on this loan that my name is on. What do I do? Yeah. Yeah.

We've just seen it all. And I just don't want that for you. You're worried about this, and I don't want you to stay in the state of worry. I want you to shift that fear energy that you've got towards action to do something about it. And that's what I'm prescribing here is lots of work.

Lots of work and lots of hours during the remainder of time you're in school and for a short time after you get out of school to be able to clear this. Because if you can clear all this debt by one year after graduation, then you're making $45,000. It's a lot more tenable than just, I don't know how I'm going to get this paid because this math doesn't work.

That's not a plan. And we've seen the stats, Dave. People who work part-time while in college, 15 to 20 hours a week, have a higher GPA than those who don't. Yep. Because you need this thing called discipline and a schedule. You're not fooling around. You're getting your schoolwork done. You're going to work. Yeah. And the problem with these situations that people face is when you're a student in her situation, if you're in that situation right now, you're facing what she's facing, which is a pay me now or pay me later. You're either going to pay me later

with interest and a lot more worry and a bigger problem later, or you're going to go and figure out a way now to avoid that debt. And it's pay me now. And that's coming up with, um, you know, an uncomfortable lifestyle while you're a student. Oh, well,

That's choosing your heart right there. It's going to be hard either way. The goal here is not college experience. The goal here is college degree and knowledge. Couldn't give a crap less about your experience, honestly. For your sake. What an expensive way to have an experience. Just go to Europe, guys, if you're going to blow $40,000 a year. If you're going to play beer pong, just go play beer pong. It's a lot cheaper. You can do it for basically free. That's not what she's doing, but those of you that are out there not willing to pay a price to win.

And yeah, that's wow. Ouch. This is the Ramsey show.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. The phone number is 888-825-5225. George Camel, Ramsey Personality YouTube Sensation, is my co-host. It is book launch day for us around here at Ramsey. George has a brand new book out called Breaking Free from Broke. It is available.

anywhere great books are sold including ramsey solutions.com megan is with us megan is in indianapolis hi megan welcome to the ramsey show hi dave how are you great how can we help

I'm calling because I have just put myself in a terrible financial situation and I'm just really scared and stressed about my finances. And I don't really know where to start or how to go about tackling all of my debt. Okay. How much do you owe?

So I have about $15,000 in credit cards. I have $32,000 in student loans. I have almost $9,000 in personal debt. And then I owe $6,000 on back taxes, a small medical debt of about $1,000, and then a vehicle for $14,000. Okay. What do you make? $50,000. Okay. How old are you?

29. Okay. And you're single? Yes. Okay. All right. Yeah, that's a pretty scary situation. I don't blame you. What are you current on, all of it or right now or what?

It's all current, but the monthly payment amount on everything is the majority of my income, it feels like. And so it just feels like I'm just paying the minimum, paying the minimum, and then, you know, nothing's going down. And I don't have a ton of extra income to be throwing at it. What do you do?

Um, so my family owns a wedding venue and so I run that full time. Okay. All right. How'd you get 6,000 behind on your taxes? Um, so I'm, because I'm technically self-employed, um, I should have been setting more money aside. You own the wedding venue? Yes. Part owner. Okay. So you're, you guys don't take tax, you guys don't do payroll and take taxes out.

We do for the rest of our employees, our part-time employees that we have. But my financial person told me because I'm considered the owner, I can't be on payroll. Bull crap. That's what I was told. You need a new financial person. Yeah. I've been on my own payroll for 25, 27 years. I mean, yeah, you definitely can be on your own payroll for sure. And you should be. That's a good way to...

A good way to make sure you don't get behind on your taxes. All right. Okay. What's the car worth? So I had my previous car paid off, and two days after Christmas, just a couple weeks ago, I totaled my car. So it's brand new, like within this last week. So I'm confused. Wait a minute. You totaled your car, but they gave you a check for that.

Yeah, so they gave me a $6,000 check. Yeah, so why would you go in debt to buy a car when you're so broke you can't breathe? You had a $6,000 car. Why didn't you take $6,000 and go buy another $6,000 car? Yeah, I considered that and talked to my parents about it and was worried because I have no savings. You were driving a $6,000 car before.

Yeah. Now suddenly a $6,000 car is not okay? I was just concerned that it would immediately after I got it have all sorts of issues and I wouldn't have the money to fix it. The $6,000 car you were driving didn't have all sorts of issues until you totaled it. Right. So that's a dumb thing to think. It's not true. Especially as broke as you are, Megan. Oh my gosh. You can't keep digging a hole and then gripe about the hole.

Is this car worth $20,000? So I put the $6,000 towards the $20,000 car, so the mortgage is $14,000 then. Yeah, so the car, you just bought it for $20,000. The loan is $14,000, yeah. So if you sold the car for $20,000, you would get a check for $6,000 after paying the loan. Yeah, let's do that. Let's go ahead and sell it. That's going to help because you have $77,000 in debt. You just took all more payments when you can't afford the ones you've got. Right. And then call me thinking you're bankrupt. Right.

Four weeks after you did that, right? Right. Yeah. You understand how inconsistent that is, right? Yeah. Okay. Think about this, Megan. You could clear 20% of your total debt just by selling this car and driving a cheaper car. No, that's not true. $14,000 out of the $77,000. Right. That'll get you on your way. Right. Now making $50,000, let's do another job or two. So how many hours a week are you working at the family business for $50,000?

Um, it just varies week by week. Right now we're kind of in a slow season, um, through March, but then it'll really pick back up starting in the spring, um, through the end of the year. All right. So you called, I'm scared and I'm stressed and I've been there. I know how that feels. It's not fun. Okay. Yeah. Because I feel like I'm stuck and the math tells me that you are stuck.

Yeah. That all you're doing is paying minimum payments and you feel like a rat in a wheel. Now, how are we going to break this log jam? How are we going to break this clogged drain and get it, you know, get flowing again? Right. Well, there's two things. We increase our income dramatically. And so if you keep doing exactly what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting exactly what you've been getting. So you're going, if you want out of this, you're gonna have to do some radical things.

And you can get out of it then. Okay. But you're going to have to work like a lot more than you're working and find a really strong paying side hustle that you go crazy for a short period of time. And you need to sell this car and go buy a $6,000 car. Okay. And then you can clear up the taxes and then you can clear up the stupid credit cards. How long has it been since you used a credit card?

Um, well, probably three months. Is that true? Yeah. I've been really trying not to use credit cards. Okay. I want you to, I want you to get out scissors tonight and light a candle and have a plasectomy party. Chop them all up. Okay. I want to get rid of any temptation to ever use them again. Okay. Because that would be just like going and buying this car on payments. You're going backwards to the forward.

Right. We can't use them anymore. They have to go away. And then we're going to put you into Financial Peace University because I've been scared and I know what it's like. But let me just tell you, if you just keep coasting the way you've been coasting and taking these paths of least resistance, like this ridiculous car story, and it's ridiculous, Megan, if you keep doing that, you're going to bankrupt yourself.

You've got to turn this in another direction, and that's really go crazy, increase your income, chop up the credit cards, and get this car sold and get you a $6,000 car. And unless your parents are going to pay for things, they don't get a vote anymore because their vote was stupid, and you really got to get this geared up. Hang on. We're going to get you signed up for Financial Peace University and help you with this.

George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. A couple of lessons from today's show so far. They were both object lessons for things we have taught many times here before, but we'll just reiterate them. First, never buy something that

like a house with someone you're not married to, like your fiancé. Earlier caller, fiancé broke up with him, now doesn't want to sell the house that they own together. He's going to end up in a lawsuit to force the sale of the house, the disillusionment of a general partnership, which is what they have, that has no partnership documents, because they

They lived together for five years, got engaged, and then bought a house prior to marriage. Dumb. Really dumb. And she's squatting, saying, I'm not going anywhere. If you're shacking up, don't buy a house with your roommate. That's dumb. You're going to screw up the relationship. You're going to end up in legal and financial trouble. It's dumb. Dumb.

Was I unclear, George? I think you added an extra syllable to that dumb. It was that intense. Stretch it out there with a little southern twang. Now, then the second thing we've learned is, and I hear this one all the time, and both of these things baffle me. That's why I'm hitting them, because they're just illogical. If you get your car totaled, it is not a reason to upgrade in car, period, period.

You are driving a $6,000 car. Your car gets totaled. You get a check for $6,000, and suddenly $6,000 cars aren't good enough for you. That's dumb. Well, they don't make $6,000 cars except for the one that you were driving. I was driving. They don't make them that are reliable except for the one I was driving that was working perfectly fine, thank you very much. Okay? Don't use the...

I upgraded in car because I got my car totaled. No, you upgraded in car because you wanted a better car. If you were going to do that, you could have just sold the car before it got totaled and then upgraded in car. It would have been the same dumb move.

A move you can't afford to do. That's a dumb move. Don't do dumb moves with money. It causes you to be broke and hurt your feelings. Well, there's a third lesson, too, from another caller, Dave, which is don't get a degree and go into debt $80,000 to go make $40,000.

The math ain't math in there. And too many people are doing that. They're getting degrees they hope to use. They're in school for nine years. And you can't blame it. And listen, let me just tell you, some of you guys act like, and I hear this all the time too, it goes right with this, okay? And this one drives Mike Rowe nuts. This is Mike Rowe's favorite thing, okay?

I'm going to blame the fact that I didn't do math on passion or passion, or as if, if I, if I say the word passion three times, like Beetlejuice, right? If I say passion enough, then math doesn't, then it, it, it beats down the math. The math is the math. The math bows down to the word passion. No, it doesn't. The math rises up and bonks your little passion on the head.

That's what happens. And so you can't say it's my passion and make your math work. You have to still be an adult and pay bills. Well, you lose passion pretty quick when you can't breathe because your job doesn't pay the bills, doesn't pay the debt payments. So what that what sometimes it's gotten to be like lately when I hear someone say I want to work in my passion, it's code for I'm about to do something really dumb.

I'm about to go deeply in debt to get a degree that is freaking useless or that doesn't pay enough because it's my passion. And that's going to make it okay because it's my passion. Don't spend $250,000 getting a master's degree in sociology so you can be a caseworker for the state making 38 grand. That's dumb. Don't do that. Well, it's my passion. See, passion doesn't cover that. I don't give a crap. If you want to do ministry, go make a bunch of money and do ministry at your church.

as a volunteer that can scratch your little passion itch. Oh my gosh. All of this just points back to one thing that we've lost in today's world, Dave, and that's common sense. Just think about the future for just a second about how it's all going to play out and how it could play out. And it could help you avoid a lot of these mistakes. I mean, think out there 10 years, how this move is going to come out. Okay. So listen, it is, it is not a grownup move.

to go into a situation that you can't, that is not mathematically palatable, spending $250,000 to get a job making $38,000 and you can make more than $38,000 as a cashier at Target and call it your passion. It's not okay. It's not okay. It's not being a grown-up. That's a three-year-old on the cereal aisle having a meltdown because mommy wouldn't buy Fruity Pebbles because it's my passion.

That's what that is. Don't do that crap. It's a Fruity Pebbles meltdown. We don't need Fruity Pebbles meltdowns with adults. It really looks foolish. So you really, guys, seriously. So when your car gets totaled, take the check and buy a car the same price or cheaper than the car you were driving before. Never buy a house cheaper.

with someone you think you're in love with or that you think is in love with you until or after you walk down the aisle and you say, I do, that's called marriage. Then you have a methodology for dealing with the house if she kicks you out.

You don't have a methodology when you have an unsigned, unwritten set of partnership documents on your general partnership, and you have no freaking idea how you're going to get out of this mess other than try to talk common sense into the woman that just booted you out of the house. It doesn't work, guys. It doesn't work. So you've got to think these things through, and you don't get to violate these rules in the name of love or passion or anything.

You know, I'm afraid of a car that breaks down. That's the, you know, so I bought a Bentley. Anything under 20 grand, they just go up in flames, Dave. I've heard that. You got to spend a lot more. You shouldn't talk about cars going up in flames. You should never do that, George. A guy that drives a Tesla should not make car go up in flames jokes. Oh, you're right. I apologize. What this comes down to, Dave, is that critical thinking, it turns out, is critical.

I know I shouldn't have to say that. I think we are they teaching that in school and we have to do the critical part and the thinking part. Yeah, that's the thing. So, yeah. And, you know, and by the way, if you're if you're shacked up with your sweetie, don't pay somebody's debts that you're not married to because sweetie may take off with a local bartender and then you are stuck with no money and no sweetie.

That's how this deal works. That's how most country songs are written. I'm telling you, I think that probably has a possibility there. No money, no sweetie. I'm just saying. And he's still paying the mortgage while the ex is living in the house. This is real life, sadly. It's real life and it sucks and it hurts because your heart's broken and your brain is fried at the same time because you feel dumb, ashamed and heartbroken all at the same time. It's a horrible place to be in. I've done dumber things than this. And

And so I, you know, I don't want you guys to lose. I want you to win. That's why we're here. We won't. But so we have to speak this absolute what looks like everyone should know stuff out so that the people that don't apparently don't know it, stop doing it. It's like a trend. Well, you could stop talking about it. People stop doing it. But for 30 years now, you've been getting the same calls and you're going, don't do it. I'm telling you, it's a trap. And then people do it anyways. Oh, if we don't laugh, we cry.

You got to think, people. You got to think. It'll kill you. It'll kill you, man. It's just awful. Wow. I'm so sorry, guys. Oh, my goodness gracious. This is The Ramsey Show.

George Campbell, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Luke and Kate are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Good, how are you? Better than we deserve. Welcome to Nashville. Where do you guys live? We're from Asheville, North Carolina. Oh, love Asheville. What a great town. Very cool. Well, welcome all the way over. And how much debt have you paid off?

176,000. All right. How long did that take? 24 months. Whoa. And your range of income during that time? We started at 165, and then when my husband Luke finished school, we ended at about 275. Cool. Cool. What do you guys do for a living?

I'm a technical product manager. And I'm a physician's assistant with an allergy and immunology practice. Oh, a PA school, huh? Okay, good for you. Great career choices. Amazing. Very well done. Wonderful income. What kind of debt was the 176? PA school? It was all student loans. I had about 130 for myself, and then she had about 45. Wow. Okay. So...

You're coming out of school. You say, okay, the income's getting ready to jack. We already make $165,000, but we're getting ready to jack this, but we got a mess. What made you decide to do all this stuff 24 months ago and get real serious about it? Well, it was kind of the shocking revelation that, hey, I got to find a job to pay all this back. I mean, I think I decided to go to PA school and –

I didn't really know what the numbers were going to look like at the end. And so when we got to the end, it was like, holy cow. And, you know, the amount put a lot of weight on our shoulders. It was hard to kind of do the things that we wanted to do without feeling guilty. Yeah. So we wanted to get out of that situation. Okay. Very cool. Is there anything in particular happened 24 months ago that said game on?

We're about to have our first daughter. Oh, all right. Bringing a kid into the world, you want to kind of go in with a fresh slate and give them the best opportunity they can have. Yeah, that's like a tuning fork. It causes everything to get in tune. You go, uh-oh, wait a minute, adult time, game on. Yeah. Very cool. And how'd you find us?

I actually used to work with someone who claimed her and her husband's success was because of Dave Ramsey. And I was like, who's this Dave Ramsey person? So I went home and bought your book, read it in 24 hours, and then went to my husband and said, you have to read this book. It makes so much sense. And we should think about kind of getting on the debt-free journey. Wow. And so you read, both of you read Total Money Makeover.

So when she comes with your book, and you just finished school, she's handing you a book. I mean, what do you say? I mean, like, enough books. Well, so we didn't get the book when I finished school. We were kind of...

but maybe Dave Light for several years. Entertainment value. Yeah, we really enjoyed the show, but we decided to take it serious when we got out of school completely. When the baby's on the way and she reads the book, hands it to you, you're like, yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am. Wow. Very cool. Good for y'all. How old's the baby now?

She's a little under two and we're expecting our second in the next month. So thank you. Fun, fun, fun. Good for y'all. What a cool journey. Yeah, very good. Most people it takes, we found the average is 20 years to pay off their student loans. And you guys just buckled down. You have this great income. You said we're going to knock it out in two. Was that a specific goal or did you have a longer time horizon? You beat it.

I think we knew our income was extraordinary for the location that we lived in and just kind of our professions. And we wanted to take advantage of the opportunities that we were given and, and get it done as quickly as possible so we can invest for the future. Yeah. We were actually able to do it a little bit quicker than we expected. Um,

Kate was laid off from a tech company at one point and she was provided a generous severance package. And rather than using that to do other things, we just put all that towards our debt. And she had a job within a week or two after,

Wow. Yeah, a severance package turns into a signing bonus for the next job. That was very helpful. Yeah, it's all free money then. Game on. It took a lot of discipline, though. Instead of vacations and upgrading the car, you went, oh, we've got to pay off these student loans. Yep. Good for y'all. How's it feel?

So good. Amazing. Huge weight lifted off our shoulders. Was it worth it? Absolutely. All right. What do you tell people the secret to getting out of debt is? Perseverance and determination. And it's not just about the journey or it's not just about the destination. It's about the journey, how you get there. And your character changes as a part of it and lasts a little bit longer than just paying off the debt. So it's really rewarding.

There's a piece of this where you overcame $176,000 in debt in two years. And so now it's like, what can't we overcome in life, not even finances? And there's something about the debt-free journey that's inspiring, and it usually begets more transformation. And you guys are a perfect example of that.

Yeah, we definitely feel that way. We try to tell all of our friends and family to listen to the show and also Smart Money Happy Hour for my friends who aren't as big of fans of just like listening to straight financial content. Thank you. There we go. Something for everyone. George, just a very note, you're not straight financial content. We're a gateway drug. Just note that. We're a gateway drug to the Ramsey Show. That's right. That's right. That's so fun. Well, thank you guys for being here and telling your story. People have said there were drugs involved and I always wondered. Sometimes a mocktail.

Way to go, you guys. We're so proud of you. Thank you. Excellent. I mean, what an incredible situation. How old are you two? 33, and my wife turned 30 today. Oh! Happy birthday! Thank you. Thank you. That's very cool. Dave's going to sing to you on air. Not a chance. They'll do talk radio for a reason. But this is great. I mean, what an incredible...

This incredible income and no payments, you're going to be able to do anything you want to do from this point. Man, absolutely awesome. Very, very well done. What's the next thing you guys are going to do? What's the fun thing, the expensive thing? Well, it's stork mode until we have the baby, and then I think we're just going to continue to invest money appropriately and...

That way we're ready for whatever comes next. You'll be ready. Yeah, definitely. Well done. We've got the live and give box for you. That includes the Baby Steps Millionaires book. You'll be there in a minute if you're not already there.

total money makeover book that started the whole thing for you guys and a baby step and a financial peace university membership you can use those or you can give them away you can do whatever you want they're our gift to you to say thanks for coming all the way over from ashville north carolina to do your debt-free scream you two are inspiring very well done heroes excellent job you took control of your life you could have done a lot of stupid but things with this instead you really dialed in

Hammered it home and changed your family tree for these two kiddos. Very, very well done. Good stuff. Good stuff. All right. It's Luke and Kate, Asheville, North Carolina. $176,000 paid off in 24 months, making $165,000 to $275,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free. Yeah. Woo.

Man, oh man, oh man. That's excellent. Very good stuff.

Those are two great career fields, too. The opposite of what we were talking about earlier. I'm going to be broke and live my passion. Both of them have, I mean, PA is a great track in the medical world. That's a great track to get on. And the physician's assistant process. And product manager in the technical space. I mean, it's just, you can see. Definitely ROIs. Proof's in the pudding here. They make $275,000.

and no payments in the world at 30 and 34. It's just mind-boggling how much more you can give, how much more you can invest after 24 months of sacrifice. You know, I haven't added it up, but if you invested $100,000 a year, how fast would you be a millionaire? Probably six and a half, roughly, I'm guessing. I mean, 10 years would be a million dollars if you had no compounding interest to benefit.

He stuck it in a mattress. Yeah, if you put it in a fruit jar, you'd have that. But that's how fast. I mean, these guys are going to be millionaires when they're 37.

or less, something like that. And that's if they live on $175,000 a year. That'll do. You know what I mean? With no payments. You see the power of this. That puts you in an incredible, incredible situation. So beautifully done, guys. That was fabulously done. Very good. That's inspiring. This is what happens. So, you know, it's funny. You can live your life that way.

And you got to admit, that's not normal. That's weird. They're weird people in such a great way. Or you can go be normal. But who the flip wants to be normal? Oh, my God. That's horrible. Nobody wants to be normal. You shouldn't ever be normal. One out of three people making six figures paycheck to paycheck. Normal. We get those calls. Make 200 grand. We're broke. Normal is awful. This is the Ramsey Show.

Our scripture of the day, Philippians 4.6, don't worry about anything. Instead, pray about everything. Francis Chan says, our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter. Ooh, love it. Well done.

Book launch day for George Camel. Brand new book is out today. Breaking free from broke. Be sure and check it out at all places. Great books are sold. It is going to be our next bestseller from Ramsey. And we're really, really excited about this book. It's really strong content. Lots of good research on all the gotchas that are out there in the money space. And George does a great job of unmasking the villains. There we go.

David is with us. David's in Washington, D.C. Hi, David. How are you?

Hi, thanks for having me today. How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help? Awesome. Yeah, so our question is basically when should we start investing? We're doing an emergency fund for one year, and we so far have $22,000 saved. Our goal is to get it to $30,000, and that's for the mortgage and stuff like that. If we have a

lose a job. So yeah, so my question is the investing part, should we start investing while we're saving up or should we focus on the emergency fund first?

So when you look at the baby steps are laid out, there's seven steps and steps one, two, and three are done one at a time, focus intensity. And you guys right now are in baby step three, saving up the emergency fund. Now you mentioned 12 months. We recommend three to six months of expenses. Is there a reason you're aiming for 12?

It's just our mortgage is like $2,500, so we want to make sure that we're safe for 12 months, and especially when we're having a baby. So we want to make sure that he's taken care of as well if something happens to my job or whatnot, or my wife's job. You have any debt other than the house?

I have a school loan. It's $200,000 school loan. However, I am a... Wait a minute. Your phone cut out. You are what? I'm in the government. So I have four years left. So it gets forgiven after four years.

So I'm waiting for that. So I'm paying $1,000 per month right now for that. Okay. What is your degree in? It's a Ph.D. in psychology. I'm sorry. I'm not aware of a federal government program that forgives $200,000 in student loan debt in four years. No, it's 10 years. It's a 10-year program, but I've been in the government for six years.

Okay, you're talking about the public student loan forgiveness? Yes, yes. Yeah, okay. And you've been paying into it $1,000 a month for six years? Yeah. Well, no, there were times that I paid less just because... What do you make? What's your household income? Well, we make, combined, it's $182,000. Okay. Well, David, you're new to all this Ramsey stuff, so there's a couple things going on here that...

The first thing we teach people to do is get $1,000. The second thing we teach them to do is get out of debt. The third thing is have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. And then and only then do you start investing long-term. I'm really worried about

About your public student loan forgiveness, you speak with such surety about it, but you're apparently not aware that of all the people that have applied in history for the public student loan forgiveness, only one and a half percent have been granted. Ninety eight and a half percent of the people that do not get it.

Yeah, I'm definitely aware of it. I do have a tracker from the system and everything. One of the major things I've done is make sure I paid on time and everything, which is one of the areas that I have...

impacted students. And so, yeah, I've been doing all the steps that go with it, which is basically just maintain the government job for 10 years. I wish that that would work, but the data says it doesn't work. And so I can't, I have, I'm the opposite end of the spectrum from you on this. You're very assured it's going to work and I'm very assured it's not going to. So I'm really afraid for you.

But you're going to play it out. There's nothing stopping you. I can tell that. So if I were put in charge of, if I woke up in your shoes, I would immediately start paying down the student loan debt because I don't think the government's going to pay it off for you, David. The track record of 98% failure is not due to them not paying on time. It's due to the whole thing's a scam.

It's the worst government program in the history of man, and that really says something considering government programs suck in general.

And the bad thing is they've conned you into working there for nothing for the last six years, too, with this bogus promise. So I wish that it was true. I wish your student loan debt would just poof, go away. But your tracking system is not going to matter when you get up there and they don't do it because they simply don't follow through on it. They're horrendous.

It is a other types of student loan forgiveness are very real. We see them happen all the time. Not the Biden program. Obviously that was unconstitutional and got thrown out, but I'm talking about there's other types of student, you know, student loan forgiveness when someone passes away or becomes permanently disabled, those actually work and do happen. So I'm not a conspiracy theorist or something, but the PSLF is the data. Specifically data is just there. It's abysmal. So, well,

what would I do? I would be working on that. If you're not going to do that, then you need to build that emergency fund. Yeah. A year probably. Cause you're going to wish you had more than a year when this thing falls apart. And so, and a $2,500 house payment, good Lord. And so, yeah, build it, go ahead and build a year in your case. Um,

and then start investing. And we suggest investing 15% of your income into retirement. I wouldn't put it in retirement. In your case, I would put it in good mutual funds because you're going to need it to pay off these student loans. You're saying outside of retirement. If I'm right. If I'm wrong, then you've got a great big investment. And...

you know, and you got it through. But I wish I was wrong. But 98.6% of the people got turned down. And it wasn't because they didn't pay the payment on time. There were people that were very nerdy and very careful and very dialed in, and they just hooked their wagon to the wrong star is what it amounts to. Yeah.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. I'll tell you, this nation's economy, it would be completely different if we didn't have student loans. It is the biggest, it is one of the biggest drags, anchors, slowing the economy down. It's people dragging all this debt around all over the place. And it's sitting out there unpaid.

And it's just dragging and dragging and dragging. And we've loaned 18-year-olds $200,000.

on a bogus promise. We, the taxpayers, did it. We allowed our congressmen, congresswomen, Senate and Congress to do this stupid butt stuff, and they continue to make these loans. Oh, yeah. I walk through in my new book, Breaking Free from Broke, in the student loans chapter, I walk through the history of how student loans actually started and what it's become and how Sallie Mae started as a government program. It's mind-boggling. It's mind-boggling.

And it was good intentions. We got to compete with Russia. And then it became, wait, colleges can increase tuition. And they did. 400% increase since the 80s, Dave, on college tuition. So the numbers you've been seeing over 30 years, now we hear $200,000 in student loans and you don't bat an eyelash. It's just like, well, that's a Tuesday to hear those kinds of numbers. And it takes forever to get out. Those of you that are new to Ramsey that are floating around out there,

absorbing this podcast or youtube or radio show or whatever it is you're however it is you're getting this um go check out borrowed future it's the documentary that we did that was award-winning it one of the top documentaries a couple years ago when it came out and it's still accurate um and uh the numbers are just bizarre the student loan debacle is just horrible just horrible

That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Dr. John Deloney here. Mental and emotional health challenges, broken relationships, it's all just part of life, but they don't have to define you. The Dr. John Deloney Show is here to help. It's a collar-driven podcast where you can get practical advice on dealing with anxiety, loneliness, depression, relationship challenges, your kids, and so much more.

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