You CAN Break the Cycle of Debt Holding You Back 02:04:31

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. The phone number here is 888-825-5225. Jade Walsh, our Ramsey personality, best-selling author, is my co-host. We're glad to have you with us today.

Chase is going to start this day off in Jacksonville, Florida. Hi, Chase. How are you? Hey, I'm good, Dave. How are you guys? Better than I deserve. What's up? Me and my wife recently started doing your baby steps here on New Year's. I got your book, Total Money Makeover. We added everything up and mortgage included. We have like $405,000 in debt currently because we recently bought a house.

Um, we make like one 46 K salary combined. And I'm just wondering if that seems doable, normal, like taking the normal path, or do you think we have to do something drastic? Well, how much of the debt is your mortgage? About three 29. Okay. Um,

Yeah. So the way we teach at first, we're just handling all the debt except the mortgage. So I think if for the time being, you kind of set the mortgage on the shelf and don't be concerned with that. Just look at the other bit of debt that you've got, the other 70,000 that's here. That's what I'd be concerned about. And with your income, I think it's just as simple as getting on a budget and figuring out how much you can put towards this every month and

Does that look like extra side hustles? I think right now you're overwhelmed because you're adding the mortgage into it. Is that fair? Right. Yeah. How far into the total money makeover book are you?

A couple chapters, but I've been listening to your show for a month. Okay. So, well, baby step one is save $1,000 when you get there. Two is to do what Jade is saying, and that's pay off your debts, everything but your house, smallest to largest. And you've got $76,000 of that, and you make $146,000. And so, technically speaking, if you were to live on $70,000, not counting taxes, you'd be debt-free in one year. Mm-hmm. I like that.

But you do have taxes, and you might not do that, so it might take you two years. But much less than two years, you should be debt-free except your mortgage and baby step two. Could I ask you a follow-up question on the mortgage payment? Mm-hmm. So I have PMI on this. Do you ever...

Would you ever advise anyone to quickly pay down as much as they can to get the PMI taken off to free up some extra or just strictly keep that on the back burner until you get everything off the line? I would keep it on the back burner, yeah. I'd put it in Baby Step 6. Here's the thing. If you're out of Baby Step 2 in 18 months...

And you take another six months to finish your emergency fund. Then you're going to start doing four, five, and six simultaneously. So, I mean, we're talking two years or something. You're going to start to attack your mortgage. So that's going to get rid of the PMI faster than it would if you screw around with all this stuff at one time. That's right. So, no, I think you just sit there and pay the mortgage, enjoy the house, and work your tail end off and live on nothing. You better really enjoy the house because you don't need to leave it.

You don't need to go out to eat. You don't need to go on vacation. You don't need to be doing anything. You need to be attacking this $76,000 of other debt and deciding if you have a car you need to sell or not and just attack, attack, attack, attack, attack, right? You know, he read the Total Money Makeover. He got excited about what he read. And the key is get excited. Like you do start feeling the weight of the debt, but don't let it cause you to go in the wrong direction and...

go in the opposite directions of what the steps are teaching. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, I can tell he's excited, but just follow the steps. Yeah. It's the fastest way. At the end of the story, the fastest way to building wealth is to follow these baby steps. And it's not like we just made this stuff up in a think tank somewhere. I mean, we've sold 10 million total money makeover books. We've had 10 million

10 million people go through Financial Peace University. All of that is the baby steps. Some of those are the same person. Some of them bought more than one book and so forth, but it's not necessarily 20 million people. But my goodness, a lot of folks have done this stuff and have become millionaires. We call those baby steps millionaires. Luke is in Cleveland, Ohio. Luke, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thank you for having me. Sure. What's up?

So I'm a 19 year old in college and I have some student loans. I'm not too worried about them. I have no debt. And I was basically kind of wondering where, what you would recommend me to do to either avoid student loans or pay off the few student loans that I have. And then post student loans to just build my wealth. Where are you going to school?

Ohio Wesleyan University in Columbus area. And what's that cost you so far in student loans? How much have you taken out so far? I would say about $6,000 max. Okay. And is that per semester? That's for the past three semesters that I've been there. Okay. So it's nothing exponential. So work 40 to 60 hours a week and pay for school. Mm-hmm.

Okay. So my plan after college is to go to med school. So I know that's a big, builds a lot of debt and obviously student loans. No, not obviously. Well, I think you have to change your mindset because to answer the core of your question, how to go to school without student loans,

is you go to school without student loans. So you have to take that off the table. And I can tell by the way you're talking in the words that you're using that in your mind somewhere, it's still an option. And in some somewhere in your mind, it's still kind of like the only and best option. And you've really got to change that.

So if I'm you, first and foremost, I'm going to finish undergrad. Like Dave said, I'm paying my way through. And then you need to start researching programs that will pay for your school as you're going to school. And you need to start researching programs where you can get your degree. And maybe you're not going to that top dollar state school. Maybe you're going to a smaller school that's less expensive.

So just do your due diligence on this. And there's things called MD, PhD programs where you can actually go to work for the university and then your tuition's free while you're studying for MD. There's this neat thing called the military and they will pay for it and you will serve them for a while and serve your country. In other words, there are ways to go through and become a doctor. There are even some of the hospitals now that are paying for it because, but of course you're going to promise to work there.

for a period of years afterwards. But that's a great trade. They're going to pay you when you work there. So you want to look at these things and start poking around on those things. Luke, be very careful of your language. Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks more.

That's a Bible scripture. Okay. And earlier you said, I don't have any debt. And then you said, I have student loans, which means that you don't even think student loans are debt. Right. And I do think they're dead. As a matter of fact, I'm really sure they're dead and you need to avoid them. And I appreciate your call. Kind of hard to be on a radio show. It's be nervous. You can say things, but I understand. But no, you're right. You're right. But you know, you want to be real careful to choose your,

To avoid this. And okay, I've got a new goal. In addition to going to med school, I'm going to med school debt free. Ooh, that's a cool goal. Hey man, thanks for being a listener. This is the Ramsey Show.

I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills...

I'm going to eat next week. Yeah, in the middle of all that grief. Like it's just, it is, it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

You got to say it out loud, and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282, or go to zander.com. Jade Walshaw, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Wow, wow, wow. Thank you, guys. You're amazing out there.

So let me ask you a question before I tell you why you're amazing. What percent of Americans say their personal finances have a negative impact on their mental health? 49% of Americans say their finances have a negative impact on their mental health. A jump from the previous quarter. And two in five Americans have experienced anxiety attacks due to money stress. Money stress is real. And you know what? What happens is we get stuck.

We just keep doing the same stupid thing over and over again, expect a different result, which is the definition of insanity. We know that. And if you want to get something you've never gotten, you've got to do something you've never done. We know that. So you've got to break the cycle, right? Because stupid has a gravitational pull. It'll hold you in its orbit. You can just get stuck circling stupid.

And the only way you can get out of that stupid orbit is to expend energy. That's how you break an orbit. You have to fire all the rockets and break away. Yeah. So we're going to help you break the cycle. And man, are we doing it big time. This is what the thank you is for. So we start telling you guys about this free live stream that Jade and I are doing tonight, along with Dr. John Deloney, Rachel Cruz, and George Camel. And now over 400,000 of you.

That's the biggest one we've ever done. Wow. I've signed up to watch tonight. Thank you. Wow. I hope you actually watch because if you watch someone, 10 of you out of 400,000, the odds aren't real good, but 10 of you are going to win $1,000 each. We're going to give away $10,000 to people actually viewing the event tonight. And you can still come and watch it and still be one of those 10 possibly.

but it's going to be great. I mean, we've been walking through the content pieces and with what Rachel and Jade are doing around every dollar, what George is doing around the ripoffs that are out there, and Dr. Deloney is doing around the anxiety issues, and me just stirring up trouble, which is like my spiritual gift. So, hey, come and join us. We'd love to have you. Go to ramsaysolutions.com slash break the cycle, and you can register and watch this live event today.

Live stream tonight.

It's at 7 p.m. Central Time, Thursday the 11th, for those of you tuning in at whatever time you tune in. So however this works in your world. So a lot of people are live on our YouTube feed. A lot of people are live on some of our other feeds. And then, of course, there's a bazillion of you on podcasts, and they'll hear the show later, so you may just have FOMO on this. But we would love to have you. It's going to be incredible. We're very proud of what's going to happen tonight. We are going to help you.

Really? We've been doing it for 30 years. We're going to help you break the cycle and break that orbit around stupid. Aisha is with us in Atlanta. Hi, Aisha. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Hey, Dave. Pretty close. It's pronounced Alicia. Oh, I'm so sorry. They had it correct on my screen, and I screwed it up. I'm kind of legendary for screwing up names. What's up? How can I help? That's okay.

Okay, so I'm recently into real estate. I got my license back in April. I sold my first half a million within my first six months, so I'm very proud of that. And I'm finding a hard time getting buyers involved.

to their pre-approved status while trying to help them get out of debt. And I'm trying to work with, you know, lenders and everything like that. So I was trying to figure out, pick your brain, the best way to look at, you know, gaining more clientele and encouraging them when they're ready to buy. Mm-hmm.

Good job. That's awesome that you're even thinking about it like that. Yeah. Well done. Well done. So we teach people to not buy until you are debt free and have your emergency fund in place. So don't, don't send them to us if you want them to buy while they've got debt, cause we're going to mess up your sale. True that. So, um, first thing, but, but the, uh, but if they're, if, if they're going to go that route, um,

The thing is, generally, let's just say, how do I talk to someone about a difficult subject like money or getting out of debt? Don't talk to them about them. Talk to them about your story. Just say, I don't know about you, but a lot of people are like me.

And I had this and this. I had this debt. I did this stupid thing. And I struggled this way. And it was hard for me. And me and my husband fought about money. And whatever the truth story is about the times that you made a mistake and screwed up, and then you say, but I changed because I started seeing the value of not having any payments. And I worked my tail end off.

And I sold stuff and it took me a certain amount of time. And now I am debt free. It's your story. Your story is an encouragement. And your story is not shaming to others. So I could lose about 20, 25 pounds right now. It'd be good for me. Telling me I'm fat.

is probably not going to motivate me. But I ran into one of the guys working here, Tim. Have you seen Tim? Yeah. Tim has lost like, he was a big old boy. He lost like 100 pounds. He lost a backstreet boy. I mean, he looks like a completely different person. And just seeing Tim motivates me. Then I talk to Tim about his story. It motivates me. But it's not Tim coming up and going, you know, Dave.

You know, Dave, you could lose a few pounds. You could really fit better behind that old desk over there, you know? And so, so that's the thing. I think that works really good with a lot of ways to convert a lot of people to a lot of things. Absolutely. I like talking to people about Jesus, but I don't want to wag, beat them over the head with a Bible. I talk about what Jesus did for me. Yeah. Then you're talking to them. You're not talking at them.

And you're not kind of putting yourself in a higher position, right? Yeah. I don't want to talk down to people. Although Tim could do that because Tim's also tall. But anyway, yeah. But yeah, you're right. You're right. That's a big thing. Because this subject is not unlike being fat. It's a shaming subject. Very sensitive. It's a shaming. It has a lot of...

condemnation with it and those kinds of things. And so you've got to just be real careful to not wag your finger in any way and not go, well, you know, if you'd quit doing that stupid stuff. Now, when people call here, it's different because they're asking us. They called our phone. If you ask me now, I've got to tell you.

because that's like my job. Right. Yeah. You called the number. Yeah. You dialed it up, baby. So don't don't call here and ask for our opinion because we'll give it to you. We are experts on our opinion, you know, but the but but do you know when you're dealing with your friends and relatives and things? I don't I wouldn't go in there talking about their stuff at all. I would just talk about you and just go. I don't know if this helps you or not. But when I was facing a thing like this and, you know, that that helps to just not

you know, kind of, kind of pull yourself back a little bit. I think so. Especially when you're in a position like her, they trust, they trust her to a certain degree because they chose her as the realtor. So she's already has that position of trust. And I think you're right. If you choose your words carefully, you can grow that with them. But the moment you kind of, like you said, start wagging your finger, then it starts to dissipate and you start to lose your footing with that person. So it is very important how you approach, uh,

subjects like money and weight loss. Well, I mean, anything, religion, anything you want to talk about. Yeah. I mean, you know, nobody has ever been, had their mind changed by someone just randomly starting to yell at them. I mean, it's like, as if that works on the internet too. It doesn't work. I mean, like, you know, all these 47,000 haters, they changed my life. You know, not at all. They didn't change my life at all. I don't even know they're there. Right. You know, that's it. So that's the whole process.

Jade Walsh, our Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Her quick read has sold out, and we're just getting some new ones in. That's right. So you can get the Money's Not a Math Problem, the real reason you're broke, and what to do about it. And that has to do with just exactly what we're talking about. Yeah, definitely. The person in your mirror. The man in the mirror, Michael Jackson said it best. I mean, most of us, Dave, we have this ticker tape. You ever watch the news, and there's that ticker tape that's rolling in the background? Yeah.

that's telling you what's going on. Most of us have that in our minds and it's affecting our actions, our behavior, and we're not really aware of it until we take the time to stop

and read it and understand, okay, this is what I've been thinking this whole time. That's why I'm behaving this way. So that book is all about addressing your belief system and changing the beliefs that are untrue and not serving you. There you go. Money's not a math problem with Jade Barshaw. You'll enjoy it, I promise. This is The Ramsey Show. ♪

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey good folks, the back-to-school madness is upon us. It's hitting us right now. We got travel and work and all these forms to fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on. My family's schedule is so packed and we haven't even begun talking about things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church and home projects. And those are the things that make our life even worth living.

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Call my friends at BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Diloni today for 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Diloni. Jade Walshaw, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. Michael and Jill are on the debt-free stage. Hey, guys, how are you? Good. Doing great. Good. Good to have you guys. Welcome. Where do you live?

Phoenix, Arizona. Oh, fun. Welcome to Nashville. Thank you. And how much debt have you paid off? $570,000. Oh, that's all? Wow. And how long did that take? 45 months or 1,373 days.

That's awesome. I love it. And your range of income during that 1,373 days? $170,000 to over $200,000. Nice. Good for you guys. What do you all do for a living? I'm in law enforcement. I'm a director of administration at Howe Realty. Ah, very good. Good for you guys. And what kind of debt, pray tell, was $570,000? It was the house we lived in with our two kids. Yay! Looking at weird people!

Love it. That's beautiful. Very cool. A paid for house. What is this house worth? About $800,000. Let's go. Love it. And how much are in your nest eggs? Just over a million. Come on. A little bit more. All right. So a million eight net worth. Baby Steps Millionaires. Yes, sir. Way to go, you two. That's awesome. Law enforcement and administration. Yes. There we go. And that's how we did it. So way to go, you guys. How old are y'all? I'm in my early 50s. I'm in my mid 40s. Amazing. All right. Very cool. Very cool.

debt-free and millionaires. Yes, sir. All because of you. Man, I didn't pay any of it. You guys are heroes, man. We've been following you for 23 years. Wow. Okay. Well, tell us the story. What happened 45 months ago that made the house get in the gun sights? Sure. Well, I didn't want to move, but she wanted to move, and I said, okay, if we're going to move to a new house, we're going to pay it off in five years, and we did it in three years and nine months, and we've been debt-free for years, like she said, but

And we've been following you for years. But the mortgage was always the big last hurdle. And we just buckled down and spent two-thirds of our income on the mortgage. We sold some stuff. I sold my 69 Mustang Fastback. I sold some guns. Wow. We sold some stuff and just spent almost two-thirds of our income on the mortgage. So wait a minute. You bought the house...

Three years and nine months ago and paid it off in three years and nine months. Yes, ma'am. Holy moly. Wow. Yep. Wow. But that was the deal. That was the deal. I'm not moving unless we're paying it off. Right. I'm shook. That's amazing. So, Jill, he comes in with this deal and you just said game on? I did. Yes. I want the house game on. Game on. We're going to live on nothing and we're going to be done. Yes, sir. And not even four years later. Correct. You do the five-year goal. Amazing. Yes.

Beans and rice, rice and beans for the house. Yes. Hey, okay. Yeah, but we're worth a million eight and the house is paid for. Listen, I'm not mad at it. In freaking Phoenix, which is an incredibly good real estate market. Way to go, y'all. Thank you. How's it feel? Feels great. Feels great. Very proud.

stress-free, liberating. Yeah, liberating for sure. I want to brag about it a little bit too. Go on and do it. It's a good place to do it. We like bragging here. It wasn't easy, but it was definitely worth it. I'd tell you to take your shoes off and walk through the grass in the backyard, but it'd be sand. That's right.

Oh my gosh, you guys, I'm so proud of you. Thank you. Way to go. Way to go. What do you tell people the key to doing something like this is? Because that's a pretty bizarre move.

Budgeting. Budgeting. Teamwork. Teamwork. Sacrifice. Communication. Sacrifice. Yeah. Yes. Wow. You realized at some point, maybe even before this, and you just applied the principle that the biggest thing standing between someone and hitting their goals is not what they have to do to get there. It's what they have to give up to get there. Yes. So the guns, the...

Fastback Mustang. I mean, like, I want this goal. Yes. I want this goal to the exclusion of other things. Yes. Bringing my work, bringing my lunch to work every day, making my own coffee, doing my own nails every Sunday. Yeah.

Not getting my hair done professionally. She does the landscaping. I do the landscaping. I kill the bugs. I kill the weeds. We do all those things we can so we don't have to pay someone else to do it. And we're not very handy. Speak for yourself. I'm pretty handy. She's pretty handy. That's an adventure. Wow. You know, I did that. I started doing my own hair. It looks like. Doesn't it look like it? Well. It looks like it. Shut up, Jay. Just shut up.

You lost a few streams, Dave. Missed a spot. Missed a spot.

You guys, man, that's powerful. Very cool. Now, what's the first big thing you're going to do with money to enjoy it now that this is here? Well, we bought a hot tub. Yes. Yeah, there we go. That's a good one. And we're going to the Caribbean with some friends in a couple of months. And we're going to take our kids on a cruise this summer. Nice. Because they've sacrificed a lot, too. They have. I like it. Wow, living like no one else. Steven and Emily have definitely...

been our big cheerleaders as well and helped. How old are they? 20 and 18. Oh, perfect. So they got to watch mom and dad do something hard. Yes. Up close and personal. Yes. It's crazy. They have all the baby steps memorized. They're definitely been indoctrinated. Both of them work at Chick-fil-A and they have more in their bank accounts now saved than I did when I was 30 before we got married. And they're 20.

In 2018, yes, sir. Wow. Wow. Hey, can you speak to... That's changing the family. The housing market has people...

up on end, right? And I'm looking at, okay, $570,000 house. You said you're in your 50s. No, no, that was the mortgage, $800,000 house. Well, now it's worth $800,000, right? Oh, wow. So speak to people who are frustrated by the housing market. They're in their mid-20s and they feel like they need to have the house today and it's too expensive for them. Talk to them from your perspective of what this journey looks like. Well, this is our fourth house. So we moved up every eight years and

We always get the 15-year fixed mortgage. We never stayed in anyone long enough to pay it off. That's my fault. That's her fault. Apparently every eight years she wants to move. Except this one. We're never moving again. I told him this is it. We're never moving again. I promise, Dave. Never. Yeah, right. We've been liking Tennessee so much, maybe we'll get a second house out here. Listen, you can do it now. Yeah. Yeah.

Wow. Exciting. Start small. A lot of people, I think they believe they have to have this huge house and this huge backyard and kind of keep up with the Joneses. And you just need to buy

buy what you need and what you what you need and what you can afford that's right yeah that's what you did here and you did something you could put in the you know put in the sites where we could do it in five years knock it out boom sir because you rolled some equity into this obviously yes yes yeah so good very good you guys very good anything you can think of you say if someone asked me about this i'm always going to tell them about getting out of debt always do this

Follow the baby steps. I mean, you've already paved the road. We just walked it. Like I said, we've been debt-free for years, but the mortgage was always step six, and we just focused on it, really. That was the only thing we hadn't done, and we wanted to do it while our kids still live at home or in school, and we wanted to show them it's possible. Yeah.

You did. Way to go, you guys. Hey, we've got the Live and Give box for you. It's got the Baby Steps Millionaires book in it because you are one. Total Money Makeover book because you are one. Financial Peace University because you are one. And so I guess you'll be giving all that away. Or maybe you can keep the one I signed in a few minutes and give another one away. I don't care. Whatever you want. But way to go, you guys. You're perfect. You're amazing. Thank you. So, so proud of you. You're absolute heroes taking control.

your lives. Michael and Jill, Phoenix, Arizona. 1.8 million dollar net worth living in an $800,000 house. They paid off $570,000 house and everything. Making $170,000 to $200,000. They did it in 45 months. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. 3, 2, 1. We're debt-free! Yeah! Yeah!

You gotta love it. Gotta love it. That's amazing. Incredible. And, you know, we've heard these stories for decades around here, and so it makes us know

way deep down in our bones because we've just witnessed it, that it can be done. And so we just want to make sure all of you know it can be done. And that's one of the reasons we continue to do debt-free screams. Because each one of these stories has something special about it. Yeah. Deep sacrifice. I love it. Listen, no...

You don't have to sacrifice that deeply to pay off a home, but the fact that they chose to do that is really, really cool to me. Look at where it puts them net worth-wise and cash flow-wise. I mean, they're making a couple hundred and not a payment in the world. Oh, man. You got some money. You can stack some cash now, man. All right, all right.

right you got choices and we got an 18 and 20 year old well on their way to being millionaires i mean uh that's talking about mathematically but also spiritually and from a behavior standpoint changing your family tree because those two youngsters witnessed their parents doing hard things yeah it's a big deal it's a really big deal this is the ramsey show

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Go to neighborly.com slash Ramsey today. All right. Today's question comes from Terry in North Carolina. My wife and I have worked hard. We paid off our debt and have a net worth of $8 million. We still watch every dollar and save and invest as much as possible. My brother and his wife do not follow the same strategy. Recently, my brother approached me for some money because he has failed to pay taxes for years.

and the IRS is threatening to put a lien on his house. He now owes over $100,000 that I know about. I believe in helping families, so I have given him over $23,000 and I plan to give him another $8,000 soon. I created a budget for him, set up separate accounts to help avoid reflex spending, and even recommended he listen to your podcast. Things went well for a month, but I found out he and his wife majorly overspent on gifts during the holidays.

My worry is that my help has been a waste. He doesn't seem to recognize the damage that he is doing to our relationship by essentially spending my money on frivolous items while I keep the IRS office back. He also doesn't seem to understand that every dollar I give him is one I can't invest myself. Should I just walk away at this point? I'm going to say yes. Let me back up my position on this, Dave.

I'm looking at some of the language that you're using. And what I see here is resentment building because clearly you don't like the way he's living his life. I like that you're giving him the money and not loaning it to him. But because in your mind, there's these strings attached that he's not following. I feel like it's causing unrest in you and in your spirit. I'm like, listen,

You got to guard your heart a little bit because if you keep giving him money and he continues to not do what you think he should do, it's just going to build up your anger towards him, your resentment towards him. I mean, you said it right here. You said, let's see, he keeps spending my money.

While I'm keeping the IRS's office back, it's like you're, does that, do you hear that, Dave? Where he's getting angry. And I also, what I also see here is you're trying to do everything for him. And as long as you do things for him, he has to do nothing for himself. Listen, he got to have a great Christmas because you gave him the money.

And, you know, it doesn't say this written here, but if you're just handing him checks for money, that, yeah, that's not going to work. Maybe you reach in and pay something off for him, but just giving him $23,000 and $8,000, you don't know what he's spending that on. If this was my brother, I would say, I love you and I'm cheering for you and I will give you encouragement and advice, but no more money. No more. I'm done.

Because the money that I've given you has not helped you. You've not made any adjustments. What you did at Christmas was frankly ridiculous and insulting. After I tried to help you and gave you money, you went out and acted like a four-year-old.

And so I love you. I'm going to cheer you on to the extent you want my help. I'm here to help you, but it won't be with any more checks. It has nothing to do with my net worth or my level of generosity. And by the way, there is zero moral or ethical obligation to give someone money just because they're in your family. Zero, none, none. We all like to help people we love, whether they're in our family or not.

But are we really helping someone when we're giving a drunk a drink? No. And all you did was give him a big old bottle of Jack Daniels and he went and got trashed. He got trashed. But I feel like the brother who's trying to give the money, he's trashing himself too because he, it's. Well, he's the only grown up in the equation. Yeah. I mean, little brother or whatever he is, is acting like he's four freaking years old. I mean, who responds to a gift?

By going out and helping with money. And after the giver of the gift says, okay, here's a podcast. Here's a budget. Here's separate accounts. And here's some money. And we're going to stand you up and we're going to put you on roller skates and push you down the road. And here we go. And what do you do? You take the skates off and throw them back at him.

I mean, come on. That's why I say if you can't walk away and just kind of shake your hands and walk away, don't do it. I wouldn't stop speaking to him. I would tell him you love him, and I'd be there for him and help him. But you are not required to give someone who is misbehaving money, and you shouldn't because you're financing the misbehavior. It's called enabling. Nathan's with us in Austin, Texas. Hi, Nathan. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Yes. So I've been listening for a couple of weeks now. My wife and I built up a little bit of debt over the years, mainly in credit cards. And we are committed to creating that debt snowball and paying it all off. But at the same time, we need to get her a vehicle. We have one vehicle right now.

that I use for work, and we need to get her one by August because my daughter starts preschool. Have you always been a one-car family? Just for the last year or so. What happened to her car?

She no longer needed it. She works from home and watches our daughter. So we had a car payment we were paying on. So you sold it to get rid of the car payment? Sold it, got rid of the car payment, and they actually paid us a little bit on it. What are you driving? I'm driving a paid-off vehicle. What is it? It's a Chevy Equinox. What's your commute?

So, it depends. I'm in sales, so I drive as far as an hour to an hour and a half away, or sometimes I'm just... And her thing is she's got to take a kid to school. Right. Okay. What do you make? What's your household income? So, last year we made $105,000 together. Gross. So, if you saved up $3,000 and didn't put that on debt and went and bought a little car, would that be okay?

I think that would be okay. I've been looking for vehicles in the area. Things I'm finding are more in the $5,000 range. That's because you weren't looking for a $3,000. There's lots of $3,000s. Okay, okay. It doesn't need to be anything fancy. How much debt have you all got left? So we have about $20,000 of debt. We have $6,000 in student loans, and the rest is in credit cards. Okay.

So if you're going to lean in and get this paid off really fast, then you can move up in car after you get your emergency fund in place. And this is a temporary solution. I'm not suggesting you ask your wife to drive a $3,000 car for the rest of her life. But for the next 18 months, yeah. Listen, if all she's doing is picking up the kids and going to the grocery store, that'll get it done. All it's got to do is run, not leak. Right.

Yeah. And there's plenty, there's plenty of $3,000 cars out there. I mean, an old Camry that's in good shape, you know, even if it's 150,000 miles or whatever, maybe it's got a ding in it, who cares? And, you know, that's okay. Again, this is an 18 month car. It's not a lifetime car.

Okay. So should we just pause the debt snowball? Until you have $3,000. Until I have $3,000. Okay. A couple thousand bucks, $3,000 max, and then go get you a little something that's kind of ugly but reliable. It's the kind of car you give it a name. It's called a Hooptie. It has special features. It has special features. This is old blue. When I was growing up, we had old blue. My mama had a Chevy II.

It was called, it was a Chevy two Nova 1963 Nova. And it, um, had a air conditioning. It was two 40 air conditioning. We rolled down two windows and went 40 miles an hour. So you know what they say about Nova's it,

It's Nova means no go. Oh, like that's the worst. No way. The worst car name ever. Oh, wow. I didn't know that. Okay. Now this car is a, it was a good little car. As a matter of fact, the brand, the rebuilt ones that are very cool. They're a little hot rods now. Antiques rebuilt. I saw one the other day that I almost bought, but yeah, they're, they're pretty stinking cool. But yeah, yeah. You just get an old car that needs a name. Uh, we've had, we had old blue at one time and, um, we had the Bondo buggy once.

You've got to have something that's got a name. And it's just for 18 months. It's kind of a part of the adventure of sacrificing to get out of debt. And then you go get a better car, and you pay cash, and you move up in car, and you pay cash, and you move up in car, and you pay cash, and you pay cash, and you avoid debt, and you get out of debt, and you pay cash, and then you're a millionaire! Just like that. That's how that works. This is The Ramsey Show.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth.

Do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Walsh, our Ramsey personality, author of the best-selling book Money's Not a Math Problem, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Steve is in Louisville, Kentucky. Hi, Steve. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hey.

Hey, Dave, thank you so much for having me on the show. I'm a longtime listener, great fan, and you have helped me more than more ways that you know, sir. Well, thank you. I'm honored. How can we help? Well, sir, I am going through a divorce after five years of marriage. We have four kids, four girls. Yes. One child we have together and the other three are from our previous marriages. You know, I brought in two, she brought in one.

Um, but my wife has decided to, to end it, to call it quit. She's already moved out. We just started the separation process and, uh, decided to just split everything down the middle 50, 50, you know, to avoid court fees and all that. So, um, it's just moved so fast within the time that she's moved out, we've already sold the house and that was only like two weeks ago.

Yeah, we, we posted it and immediately it got a hit. So we've got, it's, it's currently under contract. Um, we sold our, our vehicle, our van that we had together. It was all paid for. So my question is, it's a horrible situation, but I'm just trying to clean it up and, and, uh, make it as less damaging as possible. I have three kids to raise. Um,

I'm gonna walk away and she's gonna walk away with approximately 140K after all the realtor fees. We sold it for 435, we only owed 150 on it. - And you have no debt? - And with the van, no debt. I'm on baby step four through six, currently contributing 15% to my retirement.

Now, I will be honest, I have not put anything away from my kids' college. I was getting around to that. And so my question is, with this money, it's already an emotional roller coaster. And I've heard what you said in the past about not making big decisions within like a year, if I get that right. So I don't want to make any big decisions. I want to protect this money for myself.

I'm not doing anything stupid. So I just wanted to put it like in a CD or a high yield savings account, maybe just park it away and don't touch it for a year. Uh, currently, like I said, got a 20 K and a, uh, just a high yield savings account right now for emergencies. Um, but I'm tempted. I've had a lot of friends tell me, well, you need to immediately go buy a smaller house. And I've looked into a house housing prices and lo and behold, even smaller houses in this area are just as, uh, just, uh,

you know, the mortgage would be just as much as what I'm currently paying, you know, selling this home. What do you make? So I make $70,000 gross. You've been married five years, and you both have kids. So you're 30-something? I'm 42. I kind of started your program a little late in life. I was just trying to figure out where you were based on your kids and marriages and stuff. Okay. All right, so...

The child you guys have together, are they primarily living with you? 50-50, ma'am. We've got a 2-2-3 split, so she's only four years old. So she's right in the middle of it. Okay. I don't know that you have to rent something for a year. We're usually talking about a death in that situation. But I do think your life is probably going to shake out and still –

be reforming, still be clay on the wheel for at least six months. So I'd probably just go find you a nice rental for six months. Okay. And then let's see where we are, you know, at the end of summer. And by then, let's check your emotions and see where you are. That $140 will be sitting there in a CD. Put it in a six-month CD and just go about the business of earning a living and set up the rhythm of your new life, right? Okay.

And let's see where that leads you. You know, I don't know where your ex is going to land in terms of running the kid back and forth and all those kinds of things. That might have, probably wouldn't have much influence on it if it was me. But, you know, I'm just thinking about what all can happen. But I would give it six months and just let it sit and kind of percolate and let the dust settle, so to speak.

Yes. Yes, sir. Okay. There's no harm in that. The only thing that can hurt you there is if house prices are going to go up during those six months. Right. That's what one of my friends was telling me. He said even with the interest rates, now it's buyer's market. You need to get a house now. He's right. He's right about that. But the timing's not right for you. Yeah.

Ah, okay. Even though the market timing is, it's a good time to buy. It's a really good time to buy. But I wouldn't, I still wouldn't because of your situation, nothing to do with the real estate market. Okay. No, that makes sense. Yeah, just give yourself a little room to...

heal a little. You'll make a different decision with six months of healing under your belt. I think so. And I think you made a good point about kind of seeing where all the cards land because he doesn't know where his ex-wife is going to end up. And there is some practicality to

Yeah, and there's probably a relationship in his life in the future. I don't know when, but you don't think about that right now when you're sitting in the middle of a broken heart. Right. So I'll just take your time. Take your time. You're going to be fine. Jonathan is in Salt Lake City. Hey, Jonathan, how are you? Hi there, Mr. Ramsey and Mrs. Warshaw. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

So I am calling. My question is, should I be looking at life insurance right now? And if so, how much and what term? The background to the question is I am currently a dental student. My wife and I have no debt. We're not taking out student loans to pay for school. And we are expecting our first child halfway through this year. How are you paying for dental school?

So before I started dental school, we actually both saved up a good chunk of money, both with our own and on our own, as well as with some help from our parents. Wow. That was originally going to be used for a down payment on our house. We decided to repurpose that money and use it to help get through dental school without taking out any money. Way to go, man. Proud of you. Yes. Very cool. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

Yes, thank you. So if you die, how does your wife eat? So it really kind of depends on when, of course. If you die now, if you die this year, while you're in dental school, how does she eat? How does your kid eat?

My wife has a job, so she makes about, our take-home pay is about $4,000 a month. And so she does have that. We also, of course, have the money that we're using to pay for dental school, which right now, between our emergency fund and our savings account, is about $170,000. So that's what we would have right now, and that's what she would have. Okay. All right. And you're how old?

I'm 25. Are you healthy? Yes, sir. Are you overweight? No, sir. Do you smoke? No, sir. Go buy a million dollars in term. It's the cost of a pizza. It doesn't cost anything. Just make sure your family's taken care of. By 15-year level, go to ZanderInsurance.com. It's a 25-year-old. It doesn't cost a thing, man. It's nothing. Now's the time. This is The Ramsey Show. Jade Walsh, our Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you, America. We appreciate all of your help.

These Ramsey shows are shown up on all the different podcast platforms from Spotify to Apple to Google to whatever, any way you listen to them. We're also a big deal on YouTube and the number two talk radio show in America on 680 radio stations worldwide.

All of that is caused by you guys spreading the word and sharing. We were number one on Apple recently on all Apple podcasts. We've had a billion downloads of the show now. Wow. That just blows my little bitty brain. Thank you guys. Thank you so much. We appreciate you.

So how can you help us further? We really do need your help. We want to keep this ball rolling and keep helping people, and you're pretty much our marketing budget. So click on subscribe. Click on follow. It helps a lot. Leave a nice five-star review. It helps a lot. And if your platform has a share feature, share the show or just make a copy of the link or just use your mouth and tell people, I listen to this such and such a radio station.

That's fine. However, to share the show, leave a nice review, follow, subscribe, like all those little internet things that you do. You know, you know, those games you play and we need your help. Please do that. Billy is with us. Billy's in Long Island, New York. Hi, Billy. How are you? I'm doing good. How are you guys doing today? Better than we deserve. What's up? Um, I, so I have a quick question for you guys. I've been, uh,

Just really starting to get into listening to you guys and really trying to hone down on my finances the past, like, I would say the past couple of months and kind of getting a better understanding of where I'm at. So my question for you guys is, I'm 27 years old. I am still living at home with my father. I have no issue with that, though, however, I also would like to move out.

You know, it's kind of normal to do at this point of age. You know, that's right. Yeah, sure. The housing market in New York is insane. So my question for you is I don't know what to do. I don't know.

When to move out, I don't know if there's a specific time. Should I keep waiting? I mean, I could certainly afford an apartment and stuff like that, but I view that as something that is fun to do, but just really just a money drainer and there's no point. Do you have any debt? Like what's your financial situation?

So right now I have, I mean, I have a leased vehicle, but I mean, that's totally under control. No, it's not. It's about $300. If it's under control, you would have paid for it. True. Okay, so you got the leased vehicle. I would have paid for it up front, but yeah, it's $300 a month. What do you make? I make about $75K a year. Okay. Any other debt? No, I have about $75K in savings right now. Great. Okay.

And I have about 25-ish in my retirement right now. So what's stopping you? Like when you get ready to pull the trigger on this, what holds you back and says, ah, I'm not going to do it? Because you've got the money. Yeah. I just don't know if now is a good time to do this. I don't know if... Two years ago was a good time to do it. Right.

Yeah, that was the thing. It's time to go. I'm not talking about the real estate market. I'm talking about Billy and Long Island. When you were 25, it was a good time to move out. So let's go. It's time. You're just comfortable. Go get you a place. It's not because you don't like your dad. It's not because it's not a good idea to save money. Both of those things can be true. But there's something that happens when you have your own place and you're paying your own light bill and you have to buy bread or there's not any

It just changes everything. Yeah. And, you know, it is really good for your personal development, your psychological, emotional development to have your own situation. And it's not about out there having a party. That's not what we're talking about. We're just talking about being a grown up. And yeah, it's good for you. It's really good for you. My pastor says the comfort zone is a great place, but nothing ever grows there.

Ooh. So. Way to go, Dave. If you want to grow. Her pastor's name, your former pastor. Yeah. His name's Dave too. Yeah. Great guy. He's a good friend. Yeah. Yeah. He's right. He's exactly right. Nothing grows there. Nothing grows. And so get out there and scratch around, get you, it doesn't have to be super expensive. I just want you to be standing literally on your own two feet.

And when you do that, you're just going to see things happen for you. You're going to see a different version of yourself looking back in the mirror. Confidence. And a good one. A good one. Yeah, it builds confidence. It builds toughness.

Uh, and you know, you can buy a house a couple of years. You may even, you know, it's fine. It's okay. You don't, there's no requirement for you to buy a house quickly, but someday you may, maybe you find the right person and you get married and you buy a house. That might be too. I don't know. But, um, in the meantime, yeah, I think you're going to, uh, walk differently. You're going to feel differently.

uh, when you're standing on your own. And, uh, it's not a question of, can you save more money? It's not a question of his rent, wasting your money. It's not a question of you, your relationship with your dad. Uh, all of those things seem to be fine, but I, I would just go immediately, uh,

uh within the next two or three months i'd be in a place if i were you and give yourself a written deadline by the time before the sun goes down today write a date on the calendar that's good dave write a date on the calendar and by this date yeah and then that starts and tell someone about it yeah yeah and tell somebody you did that yeah but put you know by this date and that starts the wheel moving in your brain it calls your brain starts going oh we've got to look for a place

And, you know, you'll start running across things. You'll see a For Rent sign on the way to work that you didn't see yesterday and

And tell your dad. Tell your dad that you're moving out. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, how much you appreciate what he's done for you so far and how much you love him and all that. That's all good because this is not going to do with that. Some people have to get out of the house because it's a toxic disaster. That's right. He seems like he's fine. He's very comfortable where he's at. That's a little bit of the problem. Yeah, that is the problem. That is the problem. Jim is in Jacksonville, Florida. Hi, Jim. How are you? Hey, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Yes, sir. I got a question for you and a sort of what would you do in my predicament sort of question. I have a very hefty goal in mind. I do want to retire my parents by the time I turn 26 and hopefully have enough in the end to make me a millionaire as well. Did you say retire your parents? Yes, ma'am. What's that mean? Why is that your job?

Well, they've done a lot for me my entire life, and I'd like to pay them back. It's not your job. Well, I wouldn't necessarily say a job, but it's a goal of mine. You're 26. You're not 26. How old are you? I'm 21. Well, hey, can I just put this in your mind? When parents take care of their kids, they do it because that's what we're supposed to do. It's not a debt that you owe us back.

later on in life. Yes, I understand, but it's still just a goal of mine in the end. But right now I'm 21. I dropped out of college six months in right after high school. I started my own excavation company. And my financial situation right now is I'm bringing in around $20,000 a month. Okay. And I have about $100,000 in savings. Great.

It doesn't change what I said, though. Okay, so you want to pile up cash and build wealth and be able to help your mom and dad. Okay, so how can we help? Right. Where would you put basically liquid funds into something that would make the most of my return? The first and foremost I would get in a stay debt-free situation

Secondly, I would have an emergency fund liquid in just a high-yield savings account of three to six months of expenses. Then thirdly, and you're ready to do this today because you've already got all those things covered, I think, I would sit down with a SmartVestor Pro and open some mutual funds and start building some wealth there. And Jim, one more time, I'm going to challenge your goal. I think you need a different one.

I think you need to have a goal of making Jim wealthy. And then one of the things that future wealthy Jim can do is be of assistance to his parents. But it is not your job, nor is it a reasonable goal, to retire your parents. That's their job. They're grownups. And to the extent they're unable to do that, if you want to assist them, that's okay. But I really want you to have a goal of you being whole first and foremost. Yeah.

This is The Ramsey Show. Thanks for being with us, America. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, is my co-host. Jared and Jennifer are with us there on the debt-free stage. How are you guys? Good. Great. Welcome. Good to have you guys. Where do you live?

Spartanburg, South Carolina. All right. Just over the hill. That's a great town. Yes, sir. I love Spartanburg. Well, welcome to Nashville. Thanks for being here. Thanks. Very cool. How much debt have you paid off? $255,000. Love it. How long did that take? Forever. Oh, sorry. Six years. Okay. And your range of income during that time? Starting around 130 and a little bit over 200 now. Cool. Good. What do you all do for a living?

Jennifer? I'm a pediatric medical assistant. Awesome. And I'm in sales and packaging and have a little motorcycle business on the side as well. Like it. Very cool. Yeah. $255,000 over six years. What kind of debt was that? Well, it was a house and a pickup truck. Yeah! Everything! Yes, sir. 100% weird people. No debt at all. Wow. Look at that house. Wow. What's this house worth?

Probably about $450,000 in today's market, I guess. Very good. How much in you guys' nest egg in your retirement? A little over $300,000. We're chugging. We're chugging. Heading towards millionaire. Way to go. That's right. Good job, you guys. Good job. So what happened that put you guys on this Ramsey stuff about six years ago? Well, we want to go back just a little bit further. We started our marriage 33 years ago. Oh.

We didn't have much financial sense or direction, but Dave, I saw you on Oprah. Whoa. In 2000. Yeah, way back. 2005. And just your, obviously your truth and your demeanor. I had to share it with Jared and we definitely used your tools to, you know, take us along the way, but we really got serious the last six years. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. Way to go. Way to go. Very cool. Yeah, that was a bit ago. That's coming up on 20 years now. Wow. I remember Jen saying, you got to listen to the Southerner. He's pretty funny. You're going to like him. But I went downstairs to actually purchase the program. We watched it at 1030 at night because they would run Oprah twice in Chicago. And yeah,

I got out my credit card to purchase your program. That's hilarious. And it didn't work. And I was like, oh, wow. This guy's legit. This guy's for real. He's for real. You don't need your money. Yeah, I like it. Good for you guys. So I got to travel around with the CDs, just kind of pipe dreaming what it would feel like. And now here you are. Not a payment in the world. Amazing. Amen and amen. So what made you kind of turn the switch on six years ago? Like what made you go from...

2005, I hear this message. I like it. It makes sense. But I'm not ready to turn the switch. What made you...

Yeah, yeah. Well, the Lord, the Lord has a way of pursuing you in a way that for us, it was really a spiritual journey for me personally, especially. And God captivated me. He knew how to pursue me into an intersection that I had to turn left. I should say I had to turn right. And in doing that, just everything started to come into alignment. And I'm living for the first time in the life more abundantly. And it feels so good. Yeah.

That actually catalyst into a ministry that we started two plus years ago, Make War Ministries. And then the business with the motorcycles. I've been in motorcycles since I was 11. I'm 54 now. And God gave me the desires in my heart.

And that X, that business actually helps fund the ministry as well. So it all just ties in and it feels so good. I love it. Way to go. And Jennifer can't quit grinning, right? She surprises everybody. She's just loving this version of you and this life she's living. Amen. Amen. Very cool. Very cool. That's good stuff, guys. That's very good stuff. So when someone's listening to this and they say, um, how do you get your house paid off at 54? Um,

I mean, everything is paid for. Heading towards millionaire, what do you tell them the secret to getting out of debt is? Well, the budget, you know, is a big thing. We actually contacted the kids this morning because they've been in the backseat. Now they're all adults. And listened to say, hey, what was it, Dave Ramsey? What did it look like for you guys to see it? You know, kind of growing up, and they're 30, 28, and going to be almost 26. And they all called us individually, which was sweet.

But they all said, you guys always went to the envelope system to grab their cash out. And we remember you grabbing, get $40, we're going to Bronco's, which was the Friday night Mexican seat. There we go. So it really was, you know, the cash, cash hurts or cash is freeing. And it was kind of funny on the way over here, we came across the mountain, we stopped at Cracker Barrel, we had a gift card and we paid for our dinner through the...

gift card and went shopping a little bit. We went back up to buy something and we saw everybody in a panic. So it kind of tied into the story is that their system went down for credit cards and they were like, what are we going to do? What are we going to do? There's all these hostages in the, you know, in the restaurant. We were like, well, we have cash for what we're going to pay for the blouse. And they were like, oh, okay. And it was just, I was like, oh, this is a perfect story that ties into the journey here. Yeah.

So, super blessed. Very cool. Good job, you guys. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. Well done. Very well done. I love it. Thank you for your help. Who knew that 20 years ago, me getting in an argument with Oprah would result in this? There you go. There you go. Well, one of the things my son said that I want to encourage you with, he says, he's my oldest, and he said, Dad, what I really appreciate about Dave is he makes it practical and makes it easy.

He goes, but he always aligns it with truth when he says, if you give the first 10% to the Lord, the way he honors it. And so it's really cool to see the children...

mimicking now, not only through their faith journey, but even through the disciplines, you know, and there's nothing better than that, just to hand that off, because we didn't get anything handed off to us. We started with $82. We got married, making $15 combined income, and so it's been a muster seat of faith from the beginning. So, anyhow. That's interesting. You know, whenever people come on the show and they've paid their house off, I'm just shocked.

because culture says 30 year mortgage, keep it for your whole life, keep borrowing against it, you may never pay it off. You paid off yours in six years once you put your mind to it. Talk to that person who thinks that that's impossible.

Well, with faith, nothing's impossible. And that's really what it was for us. It was every month just seeing God be faithful. And we were faithful back in every arena. And the word says he's able to do abundant beyond what you can ask or think. And so he knew we were asking for it and thinking about it. And he's been faithful and he gets a glory for it. So we're super thankful.

I love it. Well done. Very well done, you guys. Fabulous. Fun stuff. You guys are just beaming. It's great. We've got the Live and Give box for you. It's got the Baby Steps Millionaires book in it, which is your next step. And, of course, Total Money Makeover. You can give that to someone as you're ministering and Financial Peace University membership as well. The new version, not the CDs.

And we can get that. You can either go through it or give it away. It's all for you to live and to give. That's why we call it the Live and Give Box. Love it. Way to go, you guys. Jared and Jennifer Spartanburg, South Carolina. $255,000 paid off. House and everything.

Not a payment in the world. Did it in six years, making $130,000 to $200,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! This is how we do it, ladies and gentlemen. Well done, well done, well done. Fabulous.

Man, it makes a lot of difference when you just kind of get dialed in. Yep. And, you know, when you and I are running around all over America doing these media appearances, sometimes you don't even know if there's anybody watching them. That is such a good point, Dave. And you look at, you know, we're looking at a camera in a studio with a bunch of bright lights and pretty people. Yeah, we don't know. Because all these people are pretty. They're ridiculous that we're on the air with. Yeah.

And, you know, they're just crazy. And, you know, of course, we knew some back in 2005. People watched. Of course, we knew we were going to big audience that day.

But then I did get in an argument with her, and so I didn't have the desired publicity lift that the Oprah appearance was hoping to have. But she was wrong. But I'm like, 18 years later, you got somebody who's... Then I got somebody sitting here with their house paid for and God's transformed their whole life. Unbelievable. You never know. You never know what the seed's going to look like. It's very cool stuff. Very cool. Makes you want to keep working. It does. That's right. Let's keep going. I think I will. I think we'll go talk to about 400,000 people tonight on that live stream. Hey!

Come on. Literally. That's crazy. Breaking free from brokenness. That's George Campbell's new book. Breaking the cycle is the thing tonight. Yeah, be sure you're doing that at RamseySolutions.com. It's a free live stream, 7 p.m., Thursday the 11th. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, is my co-host.

She is the author of our Ramsey Press Quick Read, Money's Not a Math Problem. Be sure to check it out on our website at ramseysolutions.com. Mitch is with us in Dayton, Ohio. Hi, Mitch. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hey, thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Actually looking for some advice. My wife and I started a business, a service business about 15 years ago, and we built that up to about a couple million dollars a year, just under. And I'm starting to get some offers on that. But obviously, we do a little bit of investing in real estate now, but just wanted your opinion whether I should keep it. It's got a good cash flow, or if I should sell that and go buy more real estate. Yeah.

Uh, there's not a wrong answer to that. If you can get a good price and you want to get out of it and move to the next chapter in your life, that's not a bad thing. If you want to keep it and run it for the cash flow and use the cash flow to buy real estate, that's not a bad thing. There's not, you know, sometimes when I'm looking at these things, I dial back and say, uh, 20 years from today, which of these do I want? You want to be running this in 20 years?

Probably not. Okay. Do you want to be running it in 10 years? No. No, probably not. Okay. I think you've answered your question, haven't you? Thank you. Is there anything else you've invested besides real estate? Because I don't have a 401k, nothing like that. Okay. How old are you? 38. Okay. And how much will you get for the business if somebody made you an offer on it?

About $2.5 million. Excellent. Way to go. Well, all of my personal investments are in mutual funds, growth stock mutual funds that I do through a Ramsey SmartVestor Pro. And they sit down. I talk through it with them. We discuss it. They teach me what that particular fund is doing and why I might do it. And then I choose it or don't choose it based on what I learn about it.

And then I buy real estate and I pay cash for all my real estate. And I've been buying real estate for, gosh, 25 or 30 years, I guess. I've got several hundred million dollars worth. I love it. I love real estate. But not everybody loves real estate because it's a hassle. I mean, you got to screw with it. It's not people who say real estate is passive income. I've never owned real estate. There's nothing passive about it. Mitch, do you already own a couple of pieces or would this be your first go at it?

No, we actually have 13 doors right now, so we make about $9,500 a month off of that, but they're completely debt-free. We don't owe anything to them. Wow, great. That's perfect. If you get a $2.5 million check and you want to buy some real estate with it, I would do that. I would also have some in mutual funds. Go make sure you're fully funding Roth IRAs. If you can look at what's called a simple IRA, which is for a small business owner,

And I guess the third option for you, you have proven to be a successful entrepreneur. You might consider at 38 years old what you want to do next. It might be real estate full time, buying real estate, but you might also say real estate's kind of my side thing and I want to open a business doing X, Y, or Z.

I don't care if it's an ice cream store or a beauty parlor. It doesn't matter to me. What do you want to do? And you might run it for a while because you obviously have a flair, an ability to do that. Yeah, very good. So if he's got $2.5 million, if it were you in the situation that he just described, how would you divvy that up? How much would you put into real estate investments and how much would you put into stock market investments? Well, I'm a real estate guy, so I would put a lot of it in real estate and I would put some of it into starting a new business.

If it was me and then I, you know, I put 10 to 20% of it in mutual funds, but the rest of it, I would go to real estate and to, um, to, you know, starting something up. Yeah. Yeah. Cause he needs something else to do using it for some seed capital. Yeah. 38 years old. You got a lot of, you got a lot of runway in front of you. You got a lot of stuff you can do. And so, um, and again, you've proven that you can operate something and not, not some people can start things and not operate them. Um,

Some people can operate them and not start them. Yes. But he's proven he did both. Yeah, that's great. Great skill set. That's a thing that, you know, not everybody's got. So a lot of people dream of having their own business. So, you know, you could go that direction in addition to that. I would consider that strongly if I were you. So good question. Good question. Devin is in Milwaukee. Hi, Devin. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure.

So I'm a college student and I've got a year left and quit my main job so I could focus on school because it was taking a lot of time. And now I've got $1,600 in credit card, debt and $8,000 in a private loan. And I was wondering if I should like worry about that right now and get it squared away as soon as possible or wait until I'm making the salary that I want. It's a private student loan? Yes. Okay.

You know, if it were me, you've got one year left of school. I'd probably focus mostly on getting out of school and getting, you know, making sure you're making good grades, get out of school. Are you working at all or you're just not working full time? Yeah, no, I am. I'm working just not full time. And where are you living on campus? Or you have an apartment?

I have an apartment. Yeah, I have an apartment. I mean, do you have extra? I mean, if you have extra margin, you can, you know, throw an extra on there. I'm not mad at that, but I'd really just be focused on making minimum payments until I graduated. Now, I want you to have, I want you to do a budget on what it takes to complete school, and I'll put that in an account, plus $10,000. When you've got that, then start paying down your debt.

If you get that much before you graduate, then start paying down your debt. But your job one is graduate with no more debt. Yep. That's job one. And that's a big job. So as you found out, so, you know, I think that's a very, very, what are you going to, what's your degree? What are you studying? I'm a double majoring in psychology and computer science. What are you going to do?

I want to develop artificial intelligence, but for the time being, software engineering. Okay, excellent. So you're going to be qualified to write code and do software engineering? Yes, sir. You get a four-year degree or you're going to code school? Four-year degree for both, to get both degrees. How much is this next year going to cost you? Probably $15,000 just to live. The tuition is taken care of.

What's your part-time job? I am a high school lacrosse coach, and I was a tutor. I might do that again. And I do landscaping in the summer. Do you not know how to do code now? No, I do. Why in the world aren't you doing code?

Well, I also do that work right now. For money. Freelance code writing, way better than lacrosse coach. Freelance code writing, way better than landscaping. It's tough, though. No, it's not. No, it's not. It's contract work. You can do it whenever you want to do it.

That's fair. Dude, you really need to get into that market. You can make some serious money between now and the time you graduate. And it's building up your experience for when you go for the big time job. Talk to me about planting bushes when you can write code. Mm-hmm.

Seriously, go do that right now, man. Start right now. Get a hold of some of your buddies that are doing this and get your hat name in the hat on some freelance contracts. And you can work a ton of hours writing code in the freaking evenings, mornings, weekends, whatever else around your class schedule and still graduate without any trouble. And you're going to make enough to blow this debt out and cover your expenses and finish school and have some money.

You got a great career you picked out. Now go stand right square in the middle of it.

And I really don't give a rip about your psychology double major. In terms of the income you're going to produce, it's got nothing to do with your income. Your income is square in the middle of code, software engineering. You can be making two bills, man, in no time if you get out there and learn how to build platforms and do this. Jeez, come on. Get out there and be a dev three. Step yourself up. If you've got a four-year degree into that, good lord.

Son, go make you some money. Please. Starting right now. Ready, set, go. Getting the degree and the piece of paper doesn't signify the starting point. Right now. Go. Get them. Get them. Now. Was I unclear? Say it again. Get them. This is the Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsey Show, where we help people.

build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Walsh, all-Ramsey personality, author of the quick read on the Ramsey Press called Money's Not a Math Problem. She's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Alan is in New York City. Hey, Alan, how are you? Hi, great. Thank you for having me on the show. Thank you. How can we help?

My wife and I are starting to set up our estate plan beyond just the basic will. We're still a ways away from normal retirement age and in the middle of an entrepreneurial career. We are on a good trajectory and expect that things could be doing reasonably well by the time our estate plan is in effect and want to set things up properly from the beginning. You've mentioned the number of things you did at Master Series and on the show in terms of setting expectations and

and communicating with your children and other beneficiaries, as well as setting up protections to ensure you're not causing harm to them in terms of funding bad or dangerous behaviors. For a couple of us just starting this process, can you walk us through how you did this? What instruments you used, how you implemented them, how to find the right attorney, what questions should we be asking, all while following biblical principles and stewarding what we have well in doing so?

Yeah, if I had six hours. Okay, let's give it a shot here. There's a lot going on. None of this will turn out well if the kids don't. That's the start. That's the start. And so there's not a legal instrument that will do anything except keep money from them in the event that makes them okay. There's not a legal instrument that makes somebody that's not okay become okay.

All you can do is keep money from them. That's all you can do, which is a good thing because you don't want to fund a heroin addict because if you fund a heroin addict, you in a sense are going to kill them because they're going to OD. And that's not what you do for people you love. And so we don't want to fund misbehavior. We don't want to do that. So it starts with that and it starts with communicating that

early and often to the kids as they're growing up and even as their adult children later on, you can have this conversation periodically. It's just, okay, this is what it looks like. This is what it looks like. This is what it looks like. And then the actual thing, we had to search for attorneys that you mentioned biblical principles. So I'm looking for an attorney as a person of faith that is also a person of faith because they don't look at me like I've lost my dadgum mind when I put out some of these ideas. Right.

Okay. I don't need somebody judging all my stuff. I just need somebody to help me figure out the legal way to implement my ideas. And so that's what I'm looking for in an attorney. And I did go through a couple of them to get to that. One of them was a strong person of faith and wasn't a very good attorney.

um and one of them was a great attorney and wasn't a good person of faith so you know that that's how you know you gotta you gotta work that through and sometimes they don't look like what they are and you get to sit down with them so anyway once we sat down um we had a different scenario for our children when they were minors than when they've become adults and so today

the way our estate is in place and has been for about a decade, was when the last kid came out of college, Daniel, we sat down with all of them and their spouses and said, okay, as for me and my house, we serve the Lord. And so this money that is Ramsey, these assets that are Ramsey are owned by God, and I'm the manager. So what I'm getting ready to unpack for you is going to blow your mind a little bit, but you did not hit the lottery. Instead, you're...

opting into taking on a tremendous responsibility because managing assets for anybody, including God, is a responsibility.

And so there's a lot of it here and there's a lot to manage. So your kids, they didn't know. They did not know our net worth until after college. Were they totally blown away? Like, did they have any inkling? No, they had no idea. Wow. Well, they knew we had money, but to them, they didn't know what that meant, the definition of that. So, I mean, they knew we could travel. They knew we could buy a car, you know, and they knew that people knew who their dad was from authors and

speaking and that kind of stuff but they didn't they never had added up what remsey the company was making and so anyway we sat there and they're like to their to their credit they were a little bit shocked but they were like okay i get it i'm here to manage and i said you know and the way the trust is set up is if you're you can't manage god's stuff if you're not walking with god

And so if you're not going to be in an active relationship with God, you're going to be removed from the trust automatically.

And that's the terms of the trust. And then we go into great detail. If someone falls away and comes back, how can they do that? We go into great detail. If someone falls away and two of them have to make a decision after I'm gone, the other two, there's three kids. So, and you know, the thing has teeth in it. It's got the ability to manage that. Because again, I don't, and I've explained to them again, this money is not for you to sit on the back of a yacht. Right. And,

Have a servant peel you a grape. Well, there is some question around that. The rest of your life and not work. Part of being godly is working. How do you find, Dave, that level of which to be generous to your kids without, like you said, kind of that entitlement setting in? Is it different with each child? Is it, you know, as you go, do you sit down and say, okay, you're each getting, like, how do you navigate that? If there's entitlement, then they got confused about who owns it. They think they do.

True. And so then they're out. They're not going to be there. So this is what we've talked about. But they're growing up. I mean, Daniel's eight years old. We bought the first nice car after we'd been broke, and we're coming back. We finally got rid of the hoopty. Got a decent car. And he lays back in the back seat and goes, you know, we're doing pretty good. And I said, we aren't doing anything. You got nothing. I'm doing pretty good. You got nothing, buddy. And, you know, so break that entitlement early and often, right? I love that. That's hilarious. We ain't got a we here, buddy. You ain't got a mouse in your pocket.

So, you know, we're just walking that through. And we had this actual discussion lots of times. It was almost humorous around the Ramsey house. So but the whole thing is, OK, generosity is easy.

Because it's easy to give away other people's money. It's easy when you don't own it. True that. That's good. It's easy when you're a steward. So they watched generosity and they understood it's easy because we don't own this. This is just God's. And God said, take care of that single mom over there, that couple over there who lost their job and they're getting ready to lose their house. God said, take care of them. So we're taking care of them, by the way. And by the way, you're not supposed to talk about it. It's just us doing this. Right. You keep it down the down low. And we just taught it, taught it.

taught it, taught it, taught it all the way growing up. So then when they get this revelation thing at the, you know, the one meeting, it's like, okay, this is just a further, this is responsibility. It's not who I'm going to be on a reality show because I'm an idiot.

And I have money and, you know, and I'm on the back of a boat and I don't work. Yeah. You know, and how bizarro a life can I live as a trust fund moron, you know? Yeah. And, you know, it's not an option if you're a Ramsey. Mm-hmm. Because you're out. You got no money. Mm-hmm. You won't have the money to do it, so you're going to be on the street. Yeah. You know, that's the thing. Because, I mean, it's because that's not a fulfilling life. Mm-hmm.

Hedonism like that is what we call it. Yeah, that's right. Okay. Hedonism has absolutely zero fulfillment. People that do that crap are not happy people. That's right. The happiest people on the planet are generous people and people that serve. And if you're not going to do that, you're not going to be happy. And I'm not going to put you in a position where you're not happy after I'm gone. And that's how the whole thing's written up. That's great. This is The Ramsey Show. Next Tuesday, January the 16th.

We'll be launch day for George Campbell's brand new book, Breaking Free from Broke, the ultimate guide to more money with less stress. This is an incredible book, extremely well-researched, and George becomes the ultimate snark consumer advocate.

Full of snark. Did I mention he's full of snark? And it's incredible. He goes into great detail on a lot of the consumer products that are out there all over the place that you guys just bump into every day, and he explains to you the behind-the-scenes look about how bad they're sticking it to you. It's pretty incredible. So this book includes a special offer to receive three months of the premium version of every dollar for free. If you buy the book before Tuesday...

between now and Tuesday before January 15th. It's a $20 book, and we're going to throw in $100 of free bonus items because the pre-orders really help the marketing plan. It'll help George. It'll help us. Thank you for doing that. And he takes all this stuff straight on, like credit card schemes, investing traps, mortgage mythology, the stuff you should have been taught, and the stuff they've dressed it up with a new digital set of clothes on and stuck it in front of you. Again, it's age-old scams, but they're back.

And he goes through every bit of it and shows you exactly how to get your money together. Breaking free from broke. Order it right now.

at ramseysolutions.com slash store, and you can get $100 worth of free bonus items, including the audio book, the e-book, an online private event, a Q&A with George, and instant access to George's newest talk, Show Me the Money. Wow. He will be on with Jade and I tonight, along with Rachel Cruz and Dr. John Deloney on Thursday night, the 11th.

And we'll be on at 7 o'clock, and you can go to remsysolutions.com slash breaking free and get that free sign-up for that. It's a live stream we're doing tonight. It's going to take us a little over an hour, so settle in and pop some popcorn, and we're going to walk you through how to break the cycle.

You need to break the cycle, and that's actually what it is. It's ramseysolutions.com slash break the cycle. But the, you know, it's all completely free. There's about 400,000 folks registered already. It's the largest live stream we've ever done. So thank you guys for your participation, and we look forward to seeing you there. Those of you listening live at this second will be there in a few hours on the

on the old YouTube, putting it out there for your stream. And you can also pick it up, of course, on our website if you register. And we'll show you how to do all that. Just make it easy for you. It's completely free. So I'm really excited about this material, Jade. The talk you put together is pretty incredible. Well, thank you. You know, I didn't know I was going to do that talk. And one of our speech writers said, well, Dave said this is the moment where you're supposed to preach. And so I said, well, I guess I need to write.

I guess I need to write a little of a sermon there for that. Yeah. So you set it up. Yeah. Well, you have the ability to do that on stage, and you're fabulous. Thank you. So I'm looking forward to watching that tonight, as well as Rachel and you talking about every dollar, and Dr. Delaney talking about anxiety, and George talking about some of the traps. And it's really good. It's some good material tonight. Of course, I'll be in there mixing up and

My job is just generally to spread hate and dissension, and it's a spiritual gift. So I'll be in there stirring up everybody and keeping you moving and have some fun with it as well. So looking forward to it tonight, guys. Hannah is with us in Las Vegas. Hey, Hannah, welcome to the Ramsey Show. What's up? Hi. Hi.

Wow, it's weird to actually be talking to you. So my question is, I'm a veterinarian, and I also have a 15-month-old daughter at home. I'm sure you hear this all the time, but after I had my daughter, my priorities kind of shifted a little bit. Good. Makes you a good mom. Yeah, yeah. So I...

I'm currently working part-time, which I'm really enjoying, and I just really feel... I'm a Christian, and I just really feel called to...

be exactly what you said, a good mom. And especially as she starts getting older, I just want to make sure that I'm more a part of her life than culture is. I guess my question is, I don't want to be shooting ourselves in the foot down the line as far as retirement and like college savings and things like that go. And I just want to know your perspective as, you know, a parent, a Christian, and obviously a financial expert. How much does your husband make? What's he do?

So he's in the Air Force. So he makes, to be honest, his pay always confuses me because it's split up on all these weird little chunks. But I think his like take home pay is like $50,000 or something like that. Okay. What was your take home pay? Like when you work full time as a vet, what do you bring home?

Yeah, so it's kind of complicated because I'm doing relief work right now. So I'm getting paid basically per shift as a 1099 employee. So I would say working three days a week, I'm going to average around 70 or 75. Okay. But before, how long have you been doing that? Are you guys used to that 70? Yeah.

Um, so I just started doing this. We just moved here in August and I just started doing this. Okay. So let me go back to your original philosophical question. You can work full time, be a wonderful mom and raise a daughter and be a Christian. You can stay at home full time and be a wonderful mom and raise a daughter and be a Christian. None of those are

mutually exclusive to having a good spiritual walk and being a great mom. Working full-time creates different challenges and different ways you go at it, or working part-time does. You're not irresponsible about the future with college funds and retirement and all that.

Um, you know, none of that. So none of that guilt type crap I would use to make this decision. I wouldn't let that be your motivator. Okay. Uh, in other words, I wouldn't go full time at home because I thought that's the only people who are spiritual.

That's just because that's just wrong. Or if that's the only way you think you can like raise a good kid. Yeah, that's that's also wrong. Lots of great kids are raised by professional ladies who work full time. Thank goodness. So it happens. It happens all the time. It happens all the time. Now, you're in a season with a baby. That's a whole lot more high maintenance than when they're eight. When they're eight, they won't even know you're gone.

During the day, you know, that kind of thing, right? So you might say, okay, we're going to, for this season, do this, leaving all my licenses intact and active and keeping all my continuing ed or whatever else has to be done up because you've worked too hard to get here. Becoming a vet is more difficult than becoming an MD because you have to learn more than one body type. I mean, the MD only has to learn the homo sapien.

you got to learn a bunch of them. That's true. And what you said, Dave, is so true.

With our kids, I mean, we've got a three and a five-year-old, and I wanted to be home when they were super little. And then when they got older, it felt right for me to go off and be able to do more things. And once they go to kindergarten, there's so much more time that frees up. So what Dave is saying about keeping your certifications up to date and really staying active, there's something to that. Right now you've got one child, and you might find that there is still some form of part-time work that you can do. Or you might find that you just love staying home and...

That gives you joy, and you might end up doing that until they're 18. Who knows? I would do something just for you. Just for you. I really do. I mean, I do enjoy working. I don't care if it's one day. I don't care if it's a half day a week.

but I would do, I would do something because I think it'll help your sanity. That's just, that's just Papa Dave talking. I think you can go in there and do processes that, and work systems that you're, that are automatic versus the hecticness of a, of a newborn. So, uh,

I think that's just a good thing for fun. And it keeps you plugged in. Here's the thing. The only thing I would urge you to do, and again, I would avoid any personal condemnation or accepting anyone outside's opinion that's condemning.

So, and I'm not going to be one of those voices. The only thing I would just tell you to do is I think you will regret if you don't steward all of the hard work to become a vet that you've used so far by keeping all of that intact and keeping those doors open. Absolutely. Because you work too hard to just drop this.

I agree. And I think you'll regret that later. And I do want them to run some numbers because losing $70,000 of income is a big deal. So do run those numbers. Sit down with your husband. Make sure you know exactly how much he makes. Yeah. Sharon was a full-time mom and now is a full-time Mimi. So basically all but seven years of our 42 years of marriage before kids came. So there you go. I mean, there we go. Jade Walshall Ramsey personality.

She's my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Ben and Stephanie are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Great, Dave. How are you? Better than we deserve. Where do you guys live? Colorado Springs, Colorado. Oh, that's cool. That's a great town. Well, good to have you in Nashville. Welcome, welcome. How much debt have you paid off? $242,000, Dave. How long did this take? 24 months. Whoa, kicking it. Wow.

Your range of income during that time? We started the journey around $115,000 and ended around $280,000. Let's go. Yeah. What do you all do for a living? I'm a nurse. And I'm a cybersecurity engineer. Okay. So how in the world do you go from $115,000 to $280,000 in 24 months?

I was going to let you know things, Dave. One, when we started the journey, Stephanie wasn't working. We just had our son, Nate, and then also finished my master's degree and got a couple of cybersecurity certs along the way, jumped jobs, and all those things kind of together. Yeah, boom, boom, boom, boom. Yours went straight up the ladder, and then she took on and go. Yes, sir. Wow. That's big. That's a big jump. Yeah. So what kind of debt was the 242? It was our house. Let's go!

Look at the weirdos. Super weird, Dave. Super weird. How old are you, young weirdos? 33 years old. With a paid-for stinking house in Colorado Springs. Wow. Oh, my God. What's this house worth? About $480. Oh, my gosh. So how much have you got in your nest eggs?

We have around $400,000 or so. We do our net worth thing around $920,000-ish. Oh, you're right there. A baby steps millionaires at 33 years old. Wow. Oh, my gosh. That is just a middle finger to society. That's all that is. That's just... Hey, for all of you that think millennials are failures, I'm talking to two of them that aren't. Way to go, you guys. Wow.

Beautiful. She's great. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. Well done. Well done. All right. So tell us the story. What happened 24 months ago? Because everything went nuts. Yeah. So Dave, our journey actually started about four years ago. My dad gifted us the Total Money Makeover as a Christmas gift. And the first thing he said was like, hey, you don't have to read this book.

but I wish I would have known about Dave and his plan when I was your age. And my dad, he's an accountant. He's always been really good with money. And I figured if I should read, if he says I should read a book about finance, I probably should. Wow. Yeah. So we, a lot of people, that's an excuse to toss it in the trash. Pretty much. Yeah. So, um, but you know, we just decided to read it. It was a quick, easy read and we were immediately on board. Um, initially the plan, um,

You know, we had always been consumer debt free with exception of a small credit card. But then we just quickly got on board. We knew at the time Ben was active duty in the Marine Corps. Ah, okay. And we were renting and we knew the ultimate goal was to buy a house. And so we just kind of stockpiled cash for the next kind of two years or so. You know, 2019 happened, then 2021, we were all in the same boat with the COVID pandemic. Mm-hmm.

We were stationed in California and we really couldn't go anywhere or do anything except go to work. Thankfully, we had COVID-proof jobs with me being a nurse and him being in active duty. So we just quickly kind of got to work and we couldn't really spend any money or travel. So we just stockpiled cash for that down payment. Hmm.

And then 2021 rolls around, which is what we call our year of chaos because we just did multiple life altering events within, I'd say like 90 days. Ben got out of the military after eight years of service, starting a new job in the civilian world.

I'm eight and a half months pregnant with our son. We're moving from California to Colorado. Oh yeah. And that crazy real estate market in 2021, we're first time home buyers. Oh wow. 90 days. Yep. 90 days. Oh my gosh. So thankfully because of our large down payment, it set us apart from a lot of the buyers and we weren't the highest offer on our house, but it's because we had the lot,

largest cash down payment that set us apart from the other buyers. Wow, you didn't get caught up on driving the price way, way, way up. Exactly. That's great. Good for you guys. Yeah. So you move, take new jobs, and have a baby all in one month. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Why not? No big deal. No big deal. We were in a rental. We were in a hotel room for a week. We were in that new house, and it was just...

Me and a strong back. And the super pregnant woman is looking at you like, what have you done? Pretty much. Wow. What have you done? You get in trouble just for breathing wrong at that point. You're not lying. I know.

Well done, you guys. Well done. You've got to be super proud. Yeah, we are. I mean, you've got an incredible income. Thank you for your service, by the way, Ben. Oh, thank you. And, man, you are set.

You're going to have so much money, be able to be so generous, completely change your family tree. Your dad's got to be going, touchdown! I love it. Is this him with you? Yeah. All right. Good. He came to celebrate with you. Very good. Well, he should. He should. That's excellent stuff. Excellent stuff. Well done. Man, I'm proud of you guys, and I know they are. Very, very good. All right. Now, I mean, you kind of had this...

almost forced on you because you're coming out of the military. Uh, you don't get to choose that. You don't get, and you happen to choose, well, maybe sort of to have a baby around that exact same time. You don't choose pandemics. You do choose to move cities. So, I mean, you guys stacked all this up. Uh,

And then in the middle of that, you go, okay, this is game. This is game on. This is where we prove this stuff out. Yeah. So tell people what kept you together through all that. Not together with each other, but I'm saying how your brains just didn't explode. You go crazy and have $70,000 in credit card debt and a mortgage where you can't breathe instead of being debt-free. You went the other way extreme. Yeah. I mean, I'll go ahead and jump in. I mean, we've done a lot of hard things together. Yeah.

I think like the hardest thing we did was we did deployment, right? And workups for deployment a lot of times, you know, it's like a year, year and a half. Wow. And you're gone eight months of that time. So it's kind of like...

you're switching back and forth between yeah i'm here but i'm not physically here mentally or whatever and i think that was probably the hardest thing that we ever had to do as a couple and uh that eight month nine month deployment um was was hard uh but it really like brought us together and this money thing is another way if it's just to share language you know like because we can set our goals together because that's where our money goes wow and

And so like all those things kind of combined, like I really feel like we can do anything together. You're superheroes. Nothing gets between you. Like nothing can get between you. Nothing can overcome you guys at this point because you've just proven you can overcome anything really. Thank you. Wow. Thank you. Good stuff. All right. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? And it's not move fast.

Come out of the military and have a baby in one month. That is not the key. Don't do that if you don't have to. You want to start? Yeah. So I just say, like, nothing is deserved. Everything is 100% earned. Just throughout the whole journey, like, nothing is... I thought he was the Marine. She's a hard woman.

Yeah. Yeah. It's just, you know, nothing is deserved. It's 100 percent. You have to live with that mentality, not in just aspects of your financial life, but your personal life, your professional life. It's it's just the way to go forward and grind through it. You know, it's it's a short amount of sacrifice to set you up for the rest of your life. That's right. You did it. You did it. I mean, you really, really. This is amazing.

You poured it on. And really what happened was your incomes went through the stratosphere and you just kept your lifestyle and your emotions down and used all that extra money and paid off the house. Yes, sir. That's the way you all did it. I mean, because 24 months, $242,000, that's $10,000 a month. That's crazy.

Yeah. I mean, it's $120,000 a year, right? Yeah. That's strong. Yeah. We had this little kind of, this little debt, I guess a little debt tracker, kind of almost made it into a game with these little balloons attached to it, like from the movie Up. And then at the end of every month, we would have whatever was left over that we had in our budget, we would get to color in balloons. So we were kind of like, okay, how many balloons did we get to color in this month? And so it was kind of really fun to kind of stack

up, you know, and kind of see the progress along the way. All right. Bring the kiddo in. Introduce him. What's his name and age? This is Nate. This is Nate. He's two years old. He's a wild man. All right. Wild man. Here we go. Hey, we've got the Baby Steps Millionaires book. You're almost there. You really are there. The Total Money Makeover book and Financial Peace University to say thanks to coming to Nashville. Your mom and dad are over there sitting proud. They should be. We're proud of you. You guys are an incredible couple. You're

You got your heroes. Way to go. So well done. $242,000 paid off in 24 months, making $115,000 to $280,000. Ben, Stephanie, and Nate from Colorado Springs, house and everything. Almost Baby Steps Millionaires by age 33. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah, baby!

This is how it's done, boys and girls. Man, they have got it going. Wow. This is the Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Ephesians 2.10. For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. John Maxwell said God uses people who fail.

because there aren't any other kind of listen i have not heard john's quote on that i like that john yeah he and i've been friends a long time i've never heard that quote that's a great one there aren't any others around it's really his only option matthew is in chicago hey matthew how are you hi jade how's it going i appreciate you taking this call today sure what's up

So I recently graduated college. I'm 22 and I got married last summer. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. And I find myself overwhelmed with student loan debt. I racked up about three years at a private college, racked up $198,000 of student loan debt with an average interest rate of 9% to 14%. Good Lord. Sheesh. Yes. What else?

And I have about $5,000 in credit card debt. My wife, we went to college together, and she graduated debt-free, so it's only me with the debt. What are you guys earning? What was that again, sir? What do you earn? What's your incomes? Oh, monthly income is approximately $3,500 a month. $3,500 a month. Okay. That's correct. And each, you and your wife, or...?

No, that's combined. So are you both working full-time? Yes. What'd you get your degree in for $200,000? It doesn't pay you minimum wage. You're not going to like this, but it was aviation. I'm a pilot. Okay. Why aren't you, are you working? Yes, I'm working full-time and I make $45 to $50 an hour, but it's dependent on three factors. Students who want to fly,

Weather and aircraft maintenance. So you're teaching? Yes. You're not flying commercially? No, I have a conditional job contract offer signed and hopefully we'll be starting at the end of this year, starting at $84,000 a year. Okay, good. But I have to work up to my hours to get that job. Okay, and is there anything else that you can do to supplement your income in the meantime while you're working up to that?

Not much. I could possibly get a part-time job. That's one thing I've considered multiple times. I'm currently at my job. What does your wife do? She does Army contracting. She works for the U.S. government. And she makes what? She started at $49,000, and then she'll go up $59,000 this summer, and then next summer she'll go up to $69,000. Okay, that's not $3,500 a month.

You've mis-added somewhere. So it sounds like you're making about $40,000 a year going towards $85,000 in the fall, and she's making about $40,000 heading towards $60,000 in the summer. Okay. So you guys probably have a household income of more like $80,000, not $3,500 a month, which is $40,000. And maybe your take-home, you may have too much being withheld.

I don't know. But basically what it amounts to is your careers, you came out of the gate with your degrees with a slow start income-wise. Okay. But one year from today, it sounds like both of you will be further mature in your careers income-wise. And it sounds like your incomes are going to be, you know, you should be bumping up 150 by the end of this year. Right. 60 and 80 is 140. Right.

That's the end of the year. Yeah, that's ideally up. Yeah. Well, that would be what she'd be making $59 in the summer, and you're going to be making $84 in the fall. So that's the way that adds up. So, yeah. So right now it's tight. And, James, what's the name of our refi company?

Why refi? Why with like the letter Y, like you, like yours. Yeah, letter Y, R-E-F. The letter Y. Yes. And refi. You need to look those guys up. They are the best in the business at private student loan refinance, and they probably can get your rates down. Yeah, because 14% is not ideal. Yeah, you got hammered with that, and that's aviation school that got you, not standard student loans. Mm-hmm. So...

And then from there, you know, the formula is like everybody else. Live on less than you make and tear into it. But I think my point is, Matthew, that you're going to be not making a ton of progress between now and June.

From June to January, you're going to make a lot more progress and the following and every time thereafter. Okay. So what I want you both to do is to work all you can work. And if you're on the ground because of broken aircraft or weather, I want you doing something else. That's right. Go make some money. Go deliver pizzas or DoorDash or drive Uber. I don't care what you do. Go make some money. You're going to be working all the time.

time. You have made an unadulterated $200,000 mess and you have got to focus on it and attack it with a zealot, like you've joined, like I'm crazy. That's right. You got to get crazy about it. But the good news is once you guys really get into it, I mean, they're going to be average. They're going to be that person who pays off their debt in around two years, two and a half years and on to the next thing.

Yeah. I mean, it takes you $200,000 if you put $100,000 a year towards it. It's done in two years. That's right. You may not quite make that depending on how these incomes stack out and when they start flowing. But that would be starting one year from now. That's true. And whatever you do from now until then, you'll make progress on. So, you know, you probably have from today over two years worth of work to do, maybe approaching three. Mm-hmm.

But you'll be out in that if you lean into it and don't go buy a bunch of stuff and keep everything down, you know, and just, you know, keep your rent down, rent the cheapest possible thing. Don't go on vacation. Don't eat out. You have a mess to clean up. And there's no, you know...

When you're 22 years old, you got the energy. Go do it. That's right. Don't wait until you're 32. Don't keep this around like it's a freaking pet. Yeah. Get after it. Allie is with us in Minneapolis. Hi, Allie. How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm really good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, so me and my husband, we just got married about three months ago. Congrats. When we got married. Thank you. When we got married, we decided we were going to be debt free like you teach, but we've kind of hit a little bit of a bump in our road. Um, we have a car and a truck that we just made a really stupid decision to purchase, but the truck we bought about two or three years ago, um,

The car we bought last year. Okay, so this, and after that, you decide to get out of debt. So what do you owe on the truck? Yeah, the truck has a $30,000 loan. And what do you owe on the car? $35,000. Okay, and what's your household income? About $120,000. Okay, all right. Well, you probably need to sell the truck or the car, one of the two. Yeah. Because you shouldn't have vehicles that total up to be more than half your annual income, and you do.

I agree. I agree with you. I actually, when I'm trying to convince my husband to sell both and get really crappy vehicles so we can get out of debt faster and buy a house and then have kids. I like that. We are upside down on them. Yeah, well, I'd rather own $9,000 than $35,000.

And I agree. So we have $7,000 upside down on the car, $7,000 on the truck. So we're thinking, would it be a smart idea to take out a personal loan to pay those and then buy two cheap cars? Yes. I would rather you have $14,000 in debt than $70,000 in debt.

Okay, and that's what I told my husband. He's not 100% on board with it. Do you know why? He really likes his truck. Yeah, he likes his truck. He's got a great truck. But here's the thing. You like the future vision that you have, which is living in a home with a couple of babies, more than you like these stupid cars. And so for you, the stupid cars are gone. And I think I agree with you.

Okay, then let's just set a super, you know, let's set a vision that's past Friday. Let's think, cause here's the thing. You can get another truck. You can't get another life.

You got to go live this life wide open. Yeah, it makes no sense. I'm not a car person, so it doesn't hit me the same. But I'm like, listen, you get in your car, you drive to work, you drive home. I'm a truck person. I completely get why he likes it. But you guys got to decide what you like more. Exactly. That's all it is. And I like kids and houses better than I like trucks. Right. Always will.

That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Dr. John Deloney here. Mental and emotional health challenges, broken relationships, it's all just part of life, but they don't have to define you. The Dr. John Deloney Show is here to help. It's a collar-driven podcast where you can get practical advice on dealing with anxiety, loneliness, depression, relationships, and more.

relationship challenges, your kids, and so much more. Listen to questions from our callers, or if you're walking through a tough situation and need some help, give me a call. You were never meant to do life alone, and that's what this podcast is all about. Follow along on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or the Ramsey Network app. Remember, you're worth being well.