This Is What's Stopping You From Becoming Rich 02:04:26

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

Open phones this hour at 888-825-5225. Multiple number one best-selling author and Ramsey personality, Rachel Cruz, my daughter, is my co-host today. Open phones here. You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. Victor is with us in Irvine, California. Hi, Victor. How are you? I'm doing well, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hi. So three years ago, me and my wife was,

buying a life insurance policy from our father-in-law. We both make a pretty good income, but essentially we're like three years in now. And I've just, I know we've maxed out our 401k, our Roth IRA, but I was talking to my father-in-law and he essentially said, it's like a good tax free investment that we can do with our custom whole life policy.

And since we already maxed out our 401k and our Roth IRA, and we even bought a house recently, we're just not sure if that's the best way moving forward to put our money in, at least with our extra money. So that's our situation. Victor, you've been married three years, you said? Yeah, we've been married for about three years, yeah. Okay. All right. So you're in your mid-20s, I assume.

Yeah, me and my wife are both 27. So we got married around 24. Okay. Well, I have to give you full disclosure here, okay? I have been trashing whole life policies and people who sell them for 30 years.

as being one of the biggest possible ripoffs in the financial world. So if you say Dave Ramsey to your father-in-law, his face is going to melt off. I know. I was afraid of bringing that up to him. I would not suggest you do that. Uncle Dave would suggest you don't do that to yourself with your father-in-law. I don't think there's anything to be gained by that. So, yeah.

You know, so basically he, you know, you have a guy in your life that loves you and that believes in these products. You have a guy on the radio that loves you and says these products are crap. And so now you've got to decide as a grown man with your grown wife what you guys are going to do and then how to navigate that decision. I would never recommend that you stay in.

That you buy something or do something, be caught when you're a grown person because your parents said you had to, to keep them happy. I would not do that, okay? But I would also not recommend that you damage your relationship with your wife's father. I would want you to be kind and honoring and really avoid an argument if I were you.

I have family members, for instance, that I've been married for 41 years, Victor. I have family members that vote the wrong way. Oh, my gosh. They don't know how to vote. They pick the wrong party, and they're just dumb about it. And I love them anyway. I love them anyway. We have family members that have credit cards and that. And I don't create at Thanksgiving a political argument with people who aren't going to change their minds.

That I love. Or a financial argument. That I love. Or a financial argument. I don't, well, I don't give financial advice to people who don't ask for it. And that includes everyone, family included. People who ask, I will tell you. So for Victor, talk through the different, why you don't like whole life insurance as an investment. I just, well, he knows. He already knows why I don't like it, don't you?

I know that you mentioned that the return over 30 years is minimal. Yeah, it is. And when you die, the money that you have in there is gone. They only pay the face amount. And there is no such thing as a whole life policy that is tax free.

if it actually got a rate of return. It is tax-free because the only way you can get your money out is to borrow your own money. And, honey, if you go over at the bank and borrow money, they don't charge you taxes on that either.

So, of course, it's tax-free, but it is not a tax good tax dodge. It is not a good investment. It is not a good product. But now you can research, you know, a bazillion things that we have said about that, and then you've still got this deep, horrible relational problem. And I would recommend that you just be kind enough

If you decide to not use this product, which of course is my recommendation, I would recommend you don't get into an argument with your father-in-law about it. I would just say, you know, we've looked at it and for us, we've decided to go another direction and we sure hope adult to adult that you'll just respect our decision, even though you think I'm wrong and I want you to respect my decision.

And so, you know, I have a friend who's so stupid that the other day he leased a car and he's even dumber than that. He drove the car to my house to show it to me.

Okay. But I didn't talk to him about car leases. I just went, Hey, my friend has a nice car. I'm going to be happy for him. And he's happy about his car and he didn't ask my opinion. And so I'm not going to just go adult to adult. I'm going to celebrate his adult decision, even though he did a nice thing in a dumb way, you know?

Right? I mean, I can still be friends with a guy. 100%. I want you to be kind to your father-in-law. Yeah. I think the biggest thing is going to be, it could be, I don't know your father-in-law, but if this is what he does for a living, it's a shot to the ego. I mean, like, right? I mean, if he believes in it so much, like if what we teach you believe so much that if we can't, you know what I mean? It would be a hard thing.

To say they're going to go a different direction from what I not just believe, but the work I do. So just be prepared for that. And you and your wife need to have a lot of conversations, Victor. She's really got to be in this. Yeah. And just really dive in. And you guys have to say, okay, what's best for us? And find the facts because the facts is what's going to prove it to you, Victor. And you both have to be on that same page and say, okay, this is what we're doing. And I totally agree with you. Keep it minimal. I mean, like.

Just say, hey, I think we're going to pass. Your wife has to be able to just look at her dad and smile. Which will be hard. And smile and say, I love you, and we're going a different direction. Yeah. You know? Dave, I love you. And we're going a different direction. But I'm going a different direction. All right. That's the thing. You're announcing something on the air? No.

No, but it's, yeah, this is where the, yeah, the relational factor of it is just, it can be messy. But it's also a great practice, Victor, for you and your wife. You've got to learn to do this anyway. Yes, that's right. Over other things. Yes. Because, you know, otherwise, you know, they're going to interfere when you get ready to name your first child. They're going to interfere when you get ready to buy your first house. They all do it out of love. And no, they do it out of love. They do it out of love. Don't pet me.

I don't interfere in your kids' names. No, you don't. That would be Mimi that does that. We don't tell our kids' names until they were born. Because you'll get a Mimi eye roll. We hand the baby to the grandparent and we say... Just don't name them Moonbeam. This is... It's all I request. No hippie names. It's all I request. This is The Ramsey Show.

Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Neighborly, your hub for home services. Go to Neighborly.com slash Ramsey today to download their winter maintenance checklist. It's free and full of tips to get your home through the colder months with no issues. Again, you can check it out at Neighborly.com slash Ramsey.

Today's question comes from Bethany in Texas. I have been married to a lovely man for 15 years who loves me and adores my son. He is the best dad I could have given to my son. The problem is the finances. I make $180,000 a year.

as a nurse practitioner while he makes $30,000. The issue is not really the money, but his lack of ambition to make more of it. He has so much potential. I recently found him a job which will double his salary, but he's just not interested. I love him very much, and I need to know how to let him be since I realize I cannot make him want to make more money."

I feel like when it comes to the financial part of our marriage, he believes that it is my responsibility. I live in fear knowing that if something happens to me where I die or can no longer work, my family would lose everything. How do I love my husband the way he is since he refuses to change? Bethany. Um,

The biggest problem I see here, Bethany, number one, I'm glad that you realized you can't control him because you can't. We can't control other people. And the fact that it sounds like you're his mom. I'm like, you went out and found him a job and you're doing all of these things. You're being proactive while he's obviously not wanting it. So...

So I would say, again, the money's not the issue here. A lot of it is fear that if something happens, are you going to be okay? Is your family going to be okay? And so that's the approach I would take with him, not, oh, go double your salary. But it's, hey, this is what it's causing in me. And it's feeling like it's becoming a, it's a wedge between you and him. I mean, it just naturally is.

And that fear possibly might be in other parts of your marriage and in your life together. And so that's the way I would approach it more versus from the money side, more on what it's causing in you. But yeah, I feel like it'll be harsher. I read that you don't respect him. That's what I read.

And it has nothing to do with the amount of money he makes that causes respect. His lack of personal growth and wanting to do better and wanting to be better. He is a lovely, lazy man, is what I read. And, you know, that's a problem. Because that's not going to get... You're not going to suddenly get okay with that. That's going to deteriorate or improve. It's not going to stay right where it is. And so...

I really think that you guys need to sit down with a good marriage counselor, and then he, the counselor, hopefully can plug him in with some guys who, some men who are wanting to improve themselves. It's hard to respect a husband or a wife that doesn't, you know, that wants to sit like a blob.

and not improve. I don't mind if somebody makes $30,000 as long as they're on their way to doing the best version of themselves.

You know, as long as they're on their way to growing, learning, getting better and so forth. And then the symptom of that problem is that if you die, I mean, I don't know how y'all are going to lose. Are you lost? You know, if you became disabled, y'all are going to lose everything. You're right. Because you've set yourself up on an unrealistic situation with incomes dependent on you. So I just I think I think this has gone on for 15 years and you've tolerated it and held your nose.

because he's nice. And maybe the guy before that you had the baby with is not nice. You know? Yeah. And so I don't want him to be not nice, but I do want him to go be somebody. Well, and the fact, Bethany, I feel like

he's not hearing you, right? I'm like, unless you're not saying anything to him, which would be unhealthy too. But I'm like, there's something there that you don't feel heard. You feel like you're on an island by yourself and you're isolated and all the responsibilities on you. And that's not a marriage. A marriage is a team. You both are working together. Now, naturally, always when it comes to these kind of, not this situation, because this is more extreme, but naturally in a marriage, there's always going to be one who's way more excited to do

all the budgeting and all the Excel and look at all the numbers and the rate of return. I mean, there's naturally gonna be one of you that's more excited than the other with this money stuff. And that's okay. Like that, that is great. But the fact that you guys are not on the same page and you're wanting something else from him that he's not just not even giving you, but also not even giving you the dignity to try to see where you're coming from and meet you even halfway. Right. I mean, any level of that give and take doesn't seem to be there. So.

Jay is with us. Jay is in San Diego. Hi, Jay. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. All right. Thanks for having me. Sure. What's up?

So my wife and I are currently saving up to buy a house. And her grandma, who she's very close to, just offered to give us a gift of $30,000 to put towards the down payment. My question is, is it ethically okay to take this gift knowing that she has siblings, cousins, and her parents who have not been given that same offer of a gift?

It's ethically okay because it's not your money. It's her money. She gets to decide what she wants to do with her money. But what you're pointing out is it may piss them off, right? Yeah. And kind of justifiably so. Yeah. I mean, because there's no intention, as far as you know, for Granny to give everybody the same amount, right? Yeah, not that we know of. I think she may, but don't know for sure. Mm-hmm.

I don't think you have an ethics problem, but you might have a relationship problem when all this comes up to light. Because feelings will be hurt, really not by you, but by her grandmother, right? I mean, you didn't do anything. Yeah. But, I mean, maybe your wife needs to talk to her grandmother and say, hey, what about when so-and-so finds out and they're angry about this?

Yeah, so her grandma mentioned that she would ideally like to keep it private. I just don't know if. Yeah. But in my head, it's a gift. I'm like, yeah, to Jay. And I mean, I think you guys just have to be aware that if or when this comes out. It's going to come out. It's going to be awkward. It's going to come out when Granny's estate is cleared. So, you know, just be prepared that somebody's going to have their feelings hurt later. But does that stop him from taking the gift? No, I don't think so.

As long as you're willing to be ready for your wife's sister to be angry at her dead grandmother someday, right? How many grandkids are there? There are seven total. Okay. Hmm.

Has she, I wonder if she's done. She wants to keep it private. I know. I wonder if she's done other private money gifts. We don't know. Because it's private. You know, man. So it was surfaced that she had helped out people with paying for college. That was supposed to be private for some of the cousins, but that came to light. How?

I think the parents knew that grandma was helping out the grandkids and kind of the parents talked and so then all the other grandkids had found out. And they did not get help then. Okay.

So, Granny is not exactly worried about everything being even, which is Granny's prerogative. That's okay. I don't mind that a bit. I mean, the only place there's fair is at the Tilt-A-Whirl and the Cotton Candy, right? So, Granny gets to do what she wants to do with her money. You do not have an ethics problem. But, okay, so how did the cousins...

However the cousins all reacted when the parents talked and the word got out about the college money, that is a predictor of how they're going to react when this comes out. Are you ready for that? If you're ready for that, game on. And as long as this is truly a gift and there are no...

strings attached of any kind. It's not a loan and granny doesn't get to pick out the paint colors or something. She's not in control here of your house purchase because of 30k. If there's no control freak stuff going on, no strings attached, and you're willing to accept the blowback that will look similar to when the other gifts came to light,

then that's where you are. You're okay with that. If it's not worth $30,000 for the drama, then walk away. This is The Ramsey Show. Are you working the baby steps? One of the smartest and most impactful changes you can make is to ditch your cash value life insurance plan, if you have one, and replace it with a term life policy. Listen, the only thing a cash value policy is good for is overcharging you

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Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. One of the things you ought to notice, and you'll notice it as a pattern through this show, some hours more than other hours, but certainly in a given week or a given month, you'll see it all the time. Personal finance, one of the things we've discovered at Ramsey years ago that has set us apart from the financial, professional financial goobers,

is that we figured out personal finance is 80% behavior. It's only 20% head knowledge. The mathematics of becoming wealthy are really about the sixth grade level. If you can do multiplication, you can understand compound interest.

And so it's within your grasp. You don't have to be a PhD in mathematics to do it. But the problem with understanding that personal finance is 80% behavior is then you have to think, okay, what affects behavior? And what you're going to always see woven through this show, and you've seen it in the last few callers here and even the emailer, is behavior is all about relationships, right?

It's not all about it, but I mean, it's one of the relationships, your marriage relationship, your kids, your grandmother wants to give you a secret gift that your cousins don't know about. I mean, see, none of this has anything to do with math. If you're just doing math, it's like $30,000 free, yes.

Right, right. Check yes. Check yes. As George Strait would want you to do. There you go. Check yes right now. Check yes. I mean, you know, mutual funds averaging 11.8% rate of return. Check yes. Boom. Just like that. You don't have to think about this stuff. It's just a math answer instantly. The problem is, is that it's not a math answer. You have to

anticipate and consider the relational, the spiritual, the emotional, psychological, any components of behavior. If you don't consider those, considering this whole thing is 80% behavior. In other words, the number one thing that screws up people's ability to build wealth is their

Friends and family. Or them. Or your personal behavior. Yeah, it's you. It's not your lack of knowledge of some sophisticated financial product. It's not that you don't know the secrets of the rich. It's your freaking dysfunctional family that put the fun in dysfunctional.

and that now you're living out of that and that screws up your wealth building more than anything else yeah well I mean it's it's the perspective you have to have and putting money in its proper place in your life and when you realize that money is a tool as I say on my show to create a life you love money is that is the tool for it right but it's your life your life surrounds it or it surrounds your life I'm like it is the thing that touches every area of your life and when you just try to do math you're

You're trying to make it its own thing over here, and it's not. It is built into everything. It's built into soccer registrations. If you have the money to do soccer for your kids for the fall, it has to do with family trips. That might have just happened. Yeah, it flows through life. It's the thing, the currency we have to have to live our life. It's not just the numbers. And so when you realize that, you realize, wow, it does touch every area of our life. And yeah, and the problem with it is...

It's us. We say that all the time. It's the guy in the mirror you shave with is what you say. Yep, that's exactly right. And Larry Burkett used to say that money problems are not the problem. They're the symptom of something else that's going on in your life. And so, including when I went broke, it was not because there was some colossal conspiracy against Dave. It's because Dave signed up for a first class ticket on the stupid ship and went on the entire cruise.

There's no question. I mean, stop at every port, every port on the stupid ship. And said, yes. Yes. You know, that's it. We were there, baby. And so, but it was the behaviors that put me there that left me open to, and the character flaws for that matter, not of lack of integrity. And I'll say this. And which Jade Warshall just wrote a book on this, but your mindset too, right? You believed a certain way of dealing with money. You believe certain principles, right?

We're going to get you rich. You believe this way. And so also shifting your mindset and learning new ways to handle your money. That head knowledge is important. That 20% of learning what to do with your money is still key. But why you do what you do with money is important too, which is the behavior. Yeah, and that's one of the reasons I get so...

come down so hard on these people that are hope stealers out there running around going, well, you just can't in America today. It's there's systemic this and systemic that. Well, there is. There's also systemic success. It's everywhere around you. Look, there's systemic wealth building. It happens everywhere. And it's the people that plug into that system instead of believing your system of socialism is

Anarchy is going to solve the problem, which is a bunch of crap. It's just you're frustrated and you feel stuck and you lost your hope. But don't spread that stuff and tell, well, it's impossible for the Gen Z. They're very frustrated because they can't be a millionaire. Yes, they can be a millionaire. They can be a millionaire by the freaking time they're 30.

If they get their crap together. Hey, I just was with a girl. She's 15 years old. 15 years old. Yep. Opened up a Roth IRA when she was like 10 years old because she started working in her dad's company and she started doing all this and she did the calculations. She told me she'll be a millionaire by 30. So I was like, well, there you go. Now she had parents who were teaching her and helping her and encouraging this, right? So she's in an environment that's beautiful, but I'm like... And so when she goes into some...

communist college professor's economics class who says you can't do this stuff, she's going to hold up her little Roth IRA and go, you know, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Or scrolling TikTok. We played a TikTok video here last week of a guy and he's like, the middle class, you have to make $120,000 to be middle class. Oh, what a moron. And he walked through all the numbers and

You know, and some of you are like, but, you know, he had like, well, and you only have $625 left. I don't know. I don't know. And we were like, oh, my gosh, what if you invested that? Right? Like, it's the hopes. It's the attitude. It's the attitude behind it. So I think you're exactly right. When you don't believe you can. And when you teach other people that they can't, that puts you in the evil bucket. The hope stealers are evil. When you steal people's hope, that's what you're doing. Now, I've been accused of being a dream killer because people call up with bizarre crap and I tell them not to do it.

That's not a dream killer. That is a nightmare avoidance instructor. That's different than killing a dream. I'm killing a nightmare. But there's a difference in that. Instead of saying, no matter what you do, you're screwed. That's right. That's right.

And you're not. You're not. You don't have to drive that car. You don't have to wear that shirt. You don't have to carry that purse. You don't have to wear those shoes. You do not have to do any of that to be a quality human and to build wealth. As a matter of fact, the less of a bunch of that stuff I just listed you do, the faster you're going to build wealth because all of those things are consumption. And so this idea that you can get away from, you can ignore wealth,

your personal character, you can ignore toxic relationships, toxic work environments, and still get ahead, that you can ignore the fact that your spouse is spending money faster than you can make it. That's a relationship breakdown. You cannot ignore those things. We did not interview a single millionaire that said, I became a millionaire in spite of my spouse. You know? Yep. I...

You know, I did talk to one guy. He said, I lost 110 pounds. I divorced her. Oh, my gosh. Fix that. Oh, my gosh. Or she lost 250 pounds. You can't carry them into it.

You can't carry them into it. That's right. That's right. You got, everybody's got to be working together. These are things we know. And, and again, that's not a hope stealer comment. That's a, that to me, that's the challenge that if you find yourself in a situation and you are married and you guys are going completely separate pages, let this be a challenge to say, Hey, get on the same page, not just to build wealth, but your quality of your relationships. Again, money's just a tool. You're the quality of the relationship will be better. Like all of this fits together. And so it is, it's, it's,

Oh, it's so crucial. It's so crucial. If you don't get the elements of behavior going, there is not a product. There's not a mutual fund. There's not a technique. There's not a TikTok video that's going to help you. If you don't get the elements of behavior, your spiritual walk, your emotional and psychological health,

your ability to set boundaries with toxic people in and around you, including your family, your quality of your marriage, the unity, the fact that we're in lockstep and both working towards a high definition vision dream that we want to live together. You cannot avoid that stuff. As a matter of fact, if you do all of that stuff and do some of the math wrong, you'll still be okay.

But you can't do the math all right and do all that wrong and make it. It won't work. This is The Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, is my co-host. Vincent is in New York City. Hi, Vincent. How are you? Good afternoon, yourself? Better than I deserve. How can we help?

So just to piggyback off what you were saying a few moments ago about behavior being 80%, in my own particular situation, I'm up to baby step number six. Great. And about my own particular behavior towards baby step number six, I'm at a bit of a, let's say a question mark, if you will, in the sense that I...

Step backward, my wife and I were homeowners and no debt at all. We have a substantial portfolio and I've taken a step backward from aggressively paying down our mortgage, which is at an interest rate of 2.875%. And instead I use that excess funds that I could be paying towards the mortgage for investments.

And I save and invest that money rather than put it towards the mortgage. Now, I'm wondering if given our individual circumstance, if that is an acceptable alternative, if we're not putting it towards the mortgage. Acceptable alternative is a big phrase. Yeah, it's acceptable. I mean, you know, you're investing, you're not consuming, you're doing that. Is it what we would do? No, we would not do that.

Right. But, you know, are you going to end up broke because you're doing that? No, no, you're not. But the fallacy in your theory is that the way you can test a theory like this is multiply it 100x and see how it makes you feel, okay? So how much is your mortgage?

I have $299,000 left on it. $299,000. So if somebody came up and said, I'll loan you $30 million at 2%, would you do that? Or does that take your breath away a little bit? Yeah, I would not do that. And the reason it takes your breath away a little bit is only when I expanded that far did you feel that debt equals risk.

Right now, it's so manageable and so small in your world, as a ratio in your world, that you're not sensing that there's any risk associated with it. Yes. And another way to prove that would be to go the other direction. If you paid off your mortgage today and you had the opportunity to go get another mortgage a year from now at 2%, would you take a paid-for house and go borrow money at 2%?

Most people will say no. But if you truly believe in the math that you pitched, you would say yes, right?

You there? Yes. No, I'm with you. I understand. My theory, I think, goes towards as well that maybe over the course of time, if I continue this long term, maybe I'll generate a better return. You will. The long term. You will. You will. But the tightness between your shoulder blades because you have a mortgage on the home where your children live and your dog lives and your cat lives and your wife lives is not measurable in math.

And so when you pay off a mortgage, people breathe deeper. They have a different feeling about the grass in the backyard when they walk through it without their shoes on. And those are quantifiable only over a large amount of money and a large amount of time. You don't sense it, though, because I'm guessing you have a portfolio, probably, Vincent, of $10 million or more. And so this $300,000 owed on your house is chump change.

It's really not, in your world, it's not enough to make you upset one way or the other. But I'll stick with our process because it's brought me great joy to have no mortgage. And if you have the non-retirement assets, which I suspect you do to pay off that mortgage today, I'd pay it off today. But I'm okay. We'll still be friends if you want to keep a 2% mortgage.

you know it's just not what we teach or believe or how we live yeah and in the same example but lowered some so not for Vincent but other people listening like we have some friends and and they make great money like they do totally fine and they've always had car payments but they can I mean it's such a small part of their overall world that's not a big deal it's not a big deal well last year for the first time they bought a car with cash and they're kind of joking with me and like okay we're gonna just try it your way let's see

And we were texting like two months later and he said in our group text, he was like, I will never get a car payment again. He was like, I never realized what it felt like to have, even if you can manage the payment, what it felt like to have that leave every month and

And then the fact with this car, we're going to drive it for so much longer because usually when the loan was up, we'd get a new car and we'd start back in the cycle. And I didn't realize that we were in the cycle. It's like this light bulb turns on when you actually live it. Yeah. And that's the thing. And that guy, you know, is a sophisticated guy you're talking about. Oh, yeah. Oh, very smart. He's not a... They make a lot of... Serious money. Yeah, they're great. They're great. They're great.

it's not that big of a deal. So to Vincent, you know, what we're expecting or assuming about you is it's not that big of a $300,000 mortgage. It's not, but I'm telling you when you do it, you're like, Oh crap. I never knew that's really what it was. I didn't realize what I was carrying. Yeah. What I was carrying around and didn't even know because it's just normal. So, yeah.

I would pay it off, Vincent. If you get mad at us, then just get a HELOC or something. You can get back into debt. Well, interest rates come down, get you a new mortgage if you don't like being debt-free. That's right. That's right. I'd pay it off tomorrow. That's what I would do. Hey, it's a good discussion, though. Thank you for calling in. John's with us. John's in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Hi, John. How are you?

Hi, Dave. I wanted to ask you what you would do if you were me. I'm 42 years old and I've realized that I've been an idiot with my money for the first half of my life. I spent my money on stuff that was ridiculous. I didn't invest it. And life smacked me in the face a few months ago and let me know that I need to start thinking about my financial future now. Otherwise, when I get old, I'm

I'm going to be in trouble. What smacked you? I'm curious. What was the wake-up call? Not having any money at all. I don't own any property. But why did it suddenly be a thing? You said a few months ago life smacked me. Did a certain thing happen? Well, basically, all I know to say is that...

I just didn't have any money. You just got disgusted. Okay, that's fine. That's a good answer. I work with myself. Okay, so what's your question? How can we help you? So I make around $80,000 a year. I've got about $12,000 worth of debt.

And I'm basically caught between two paths. I know it won't take me long to pay this debt off. Good. But I'm trying to decide if I should then focus on saving for a house and paying for it in cash, not taking on any debt. Because I've been reading your book, The Money Makeover, and I absolutely decap debt now. And I don't want to have any part of it anymore for the rest of my life. But I thought about either just buying the house. Where are you living now? Paying for it in cash.

I'm sorry? Where are you living now? I live in Bluffton, Indiana. You're renting an apartment? You live in your friend's basement? Where do you live? What kind of living situation? I rent an apartment. Okay. All right. And what price range home would you buy? And out of $80,000, how quick can you pay cash for one? Well, if I really buckle down and have been saving hard, which is what I have been doing, I could probably save $50,000 a year.

So I'm thinking in four years, I could probably pay cash for $100,000 to maybe a $150,000 house. Four years times 50 is $200,000. Yeah. Well, what I was going to say was I could save an additional 50 for like an emergency fund for expenses on the house that may come up, you know, down the road, a hot water heater goes out or whatever. I love it. Do it.

Yeah. The second option I thought, I know the trucking business has been doing this for 15 years. The other option I thought about doing was buying my own semi-truck, paying for that in cash, because being an owner-operator, provided I had the right emergency fund in place, I can make some serious money very, very quickly. Yeah. I think I probably would do both, pay cash for a house and pay cash for a truck. It's just a matter of which one to do first.

And then you can decide that. I'm okay either way. I love your wake-up call, though. I love where you are. Your head's in a really good space, John. You're going to be in a great shape in about four years. It's going to be great. Way to go, man. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

The phone number here is 888-825-5225. Rachel Cruz, multiple number one bestselling author, Ramsey personality, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour, and my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Nicole is in Salt Lake City. Hey, Nicole, how are you? Hi, I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I'm so grateful to actually get to speak to both of you, especially another working mom. I'm

concerned with whether or not I would be harming my family's financial future if I take an extended maternity leave with my second child. I didn't take that with my first child, and I've had a lot of regret about that. And my husband and I are considering whether or not I could take a year or two off of work. If I did, we wouldn't be able to put...

as much toward our debt snowball as we have. We've paid off about $217,000 in 2020. What do you do, Nicole? I'm an attorney. What do you make? Net take home for both of us. No, I said, what do you make? I think my net take home is $120,000. What about your husband?

His is about maybe 60, I think. No, it was 70 last year. His net was 70. What's he do? He owns some car washes. Okay. So you're going to cut your income by 60, 65%.

Yes. And then we would still have $86,000 of my student loan left. It's our only debt besides our mortgage that we still have left to pay on, but we've been paying on it. And so it's going to set us back. We'll be able to make the minimum payments and maybe a little bit more with distributions, but maybe inconsistently. And I guess I'm just concerned because we started a family later in life.

We'll both be in our early 40s by the time I wanted to go back to work. And so obviously having that debt and then having not invested that long, I'm just concerned this is going to cause harm long term. Yeah.

I kind of want to like relieve you from, from that, Nicole, I don't think it's harm longterm. I mean, I think, yeah, your, your goals are going to shift if your family goals shift and that's a reality. Um, but it's not like you're putting your family in massive danger here, right? I mean, I have some other ideas that we can talk through here in a second, but, um,

So many women feel this, and especially since you're the breadwinner, that I have to be the one to save everything. And it's up to me, and I'm going to put my family in danger. You know, like this language that you're using, it's very heavy. And I think it's... What I would say is that it's...

You're putting more pressure on yourself than needs to be there. Yes, getting out of debt is a huge goal. And it's one that I want you guys to work towards and one that you've made such significant progress to. But like we said, the last hour of the show, we talked so much about how debt is a tool to create, or I'm sorry, money is a tool to create a life that you love. And you guys have to look at your family unit and your family is a priority, Nicole. I mean, your family is one that you're like, okay, what is best for us right now? And as a mom, I get it. Like that...

I mean, I pulled back from work after my third because I was like, I just, I want to be home more. And so all of that is real. Now, does that mean we want to stop everything you guys have been doing and the progress you've made? No, I wouldn't suggest that either. And so I think a wonderful middle ground, Nicole, for you is to have...

Because, I mean, an attorney, I'm like, that is such a stressful job and the hours you work. I mean, I can't even imagine. So what does life look like if Nicole stays home and her career shifts and your career looks different for a year or two? What does that look like? And so I would start having that kind of conversation of, and I don't know this world, Nicole, so you probably can direct me better in this conversation from this point on in this sense, but

Is there work to be done that you could do, outsource your skills at some level, some degree, that is significantly less stress and less time than what you've been doing and still be bringing in some kind of flow, right? To offset the student loans that are there because of law school.

Right. You know, so let's use the law degree to clean up the law degree mess. But does it have to look like maybe not in a traditional right attorney setting? Right. What Rachel's saying. And Rachel says she pulled back. She pulled back. She was not. But she's not.

out of the saddle either. She's, you know, her social footprint has grown. She's still doing appearances. She's still on this show, still launched a number one best-selling kids book a few months ago. And so, and did all of that on, you know, less than a full-time hour slate. In an office, yeah, correct, yeah. In the office. And so, you know, but we just shifted around

how what we're doing with her brand and how we're doing that for a season here while the little one is there and so for you that's what I would present to you what does what does that shift

look like right because there is a you know there's a level of responsibility that you guys have financially right that you have to fulfill you have to make these payments and getting out of debt as you know uh lifts so many burdens right if you didn't have this debt then you could have the option to stay home full-time if you wanted right so um but but i do think that there's something there that there still can be money to be brought in i think you have to think creatively and that's probably what i would encourage you to do to have something and then he

Honestly, Nicole will probably have to step up his game. If you guys keep this momentum with paying off debt, I just don't want you to think it's an all or nothing. Things can shift. And harm is not the right word. Rachel's right. That's an overstated word, a mom guilt word.

in this because you guys can't win, okay? You get mom guilt if you're at home because you feel like you should be at work. And if you're at work, you get mom guilt because you feel like you should be at home. I mean, it's a no-win. And there's always some moron on either side of the coin telling you you should be doing the other one, right? And so we're not going to be either one of those, but probably some kind of a change, a hybrid approach because there's a part of me that says, okay, that the –

You went to all the trouble and the expense and the debt to be a lawyer to go cold turkey doing nothing with that. While you've still got $80,000 of it outstanding, that doesn't feel right either. Okay? But also not addressing this need that you've got, this desire you've got to be at home doesn't feel right. And so I think somewhere in there along Rachel's suggestion is the proper –

But I want to take the, I'm with Rachel, I want to take the guilt thing of, are you doing irreparable harm? No, you're not doing irreparable harm. You just kind of got to think through. I spent a lot of who I am in money, time, debt, effort, brain power to be a lawyer. And to cut that off completely, even for just two years, feels horrible.

pretty extreme. Yeah, and Nicole, and everyone's obviously created so differently, but considering what you've done and as you listed all that, Dave, I was thinking like, you know, you might look up in six months and be like, oh my gosh, I'm crazy. I'm not happy because I need some output. You know, so you may find that in you, how you're wired, you're going to want to do something as well. And so that's a possibility too. So you're doing great, Nicole. You're going to be okay. You're going to do good. You're asking the right questions.

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NMLS ID 1591. NMLS ConsumerAccess.org. Equal Housing Lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. What percentage of Americans have at least $1,000 in their savings account? This will blow your mind. 36% of all Americans have absolutely zero in savings. Over one in three.

Another 19% 1 in 5 have less than $1,000 saved. That's 55% don't have $1,000. It's crazy out there, y'all. Did you guys know that stupid has a gravitational pull? That you can get stuck in an orbit around stupid? You know how you break an orbit? You know how you break the cycle? A burst of energy. That's how you break an orbit. And

If you're ready for a change, we're going to help. We're doing the biggest live stream we've ever done. Right now, there are over 400,000 people registered to view our live stream tomorrow night, Thursday, January the 11th at 7 p.m. Central. It's by far the biggest one we've ever done. It's called Break the Cycle. It's Dr. John Deloney, Rachel Cruz, George Camel, Jade Warshaw, me.

navigating money anxiety, bad money habits that keep you stuck, practical money tips that actually work, and we're giving away $10,000, $1,000 to 10 different people, a total of $10,000, to people who are actually viewing this tomorrow night. If you're on the live stream, you're going to be automatically signed up to be a possible winner. No purchase necessary. The whole thing's free. RamseySolutions.com slash BreakTheCycle.

RamseySolutions.com slash Ramsey.

Break the cycle Rachel what you and Jade have put together the things y'all are gonna be working on it's gonna be a lot of fun Yeah, it's gonna be great. We're we're really gonna talk through What it looks like to change right and that change is uncomfortable But what are the actual tactical things you can do to break the cycle and and yeah And one of those is is budgeting and and every dollar is a huge our budgeting app. It's a huge tool It's a huge proponent in your life and your financial life to walk with you and for you to have and

That's so convenient on your phone to really do this. I mean, like there really is something about being proactive with your money and the budget is really the best way to do that. And every dollar is that. So we're going to kind of talk through a bunch of ideas, including that one. And it's going to be, it's going to be a good night. Dalton is with us. Dalton is in Knoxville. Hey Dalton, welcome to the Ramsey show. Hey, thank y'all for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

Hey, my wife is scheduled to graduate from psych nurse practitioner school a year from now in January. Right now we're about $40,000 in debt from our student loans, but that's all that we have. Everything else is paid off.

And after she graduates, she's working part-time for a company that she plans to go full-time for. And they have a program where if you work with them for two years, they'll pay $50,000 off of your student debt. And so my question was, should we wait two years and let them pay off the $50,000, and we just make sure it stays below $50,000, or we hurry up and pay off beforehand? She graduates in January. When do they give you the $40,000?

Two years later? Maybe 50,000. Two years later. You don't have 50,000 in debt. You said they pay off up to 50, so it's 40. Yeah, well, we got $40,000 right now. I think after she graduates, after we do the math, it's going to be about $70,000, $75,000. Okay, so you called me up about getting out of debt while you're going further into debt. I guess I did. What do you make? I make about $40,000 a year. Is she working?

Uh, she's working part-time. So make around maybe $10,000 this year. And, uh, we got two kids. And so what are they going to pay her as a psych nurse? Uh, starting off $118,000. Wow. That's awesome. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. So it really doesn't matter. Um, you're not going to pay anything on the debt between now and the time she graduates.

If you really rolled up your sleeves, you might just avoid adding so much. Maybe keep it down to $50 instead of go to $75. You know, you guys really, really, really buckle down and not go so far in debt. So the question really comes up, when she goes to work there making $100, do we wait two years from then for them to pay off $50, or do we just use her $100 to pay off the $50 the first year?

Yeah. So the question really, it doesn't even come up until a year from now. Yeah. Here's what I would do. I would immediately when she goes to work, save up the $50,000 and put it in a separate account and let it sit there savings account. And then if this place is hell on earth and she needs to walk out the door,

You can write a check yourself and pay it off, and you've not got golden handcuffs, and she has to stay in a horrible situation for two years. All right. Because you guys are used to living on $40,000 or $50,000 with her $10,000 part-time, and you're getting ready to go to $150,000 when she comes out. So you ought to be able to save $50,000 really fast. Does that make sense?

Yeah, makes complete sense. Yeah. So I want you to do the same thing as getting out of debt and just pretend like you don't have that savings account over there. And then if she does stay two years, obviously they're going to write a check, pay it off, and you've got an extra 50 grand laying around. Yeah. Yeah, because usually, Dalton, in these situations, what we hear is you have to be in the job for seven plus years or like this crazy extended amount of time for this kind of benefits. We hear that a lot. And that's what I would not advise. If it's a long period of time, I'm not going to do it.

I'm just on my own. I'm going to pay it off so I have the autonomy over my life. Two years is really encouraging. And how much she's going to be making right out of the gate. I'm like, holy crap. She has a really great deal. You guys are in a really, really blessed situation in that sense that she's

who she's working for and all of it. I mean, there's so many upsides for you guys. So I think that's a great idea. Try to cash flow the next year, Dalton. Really set yourself a goal that we're not going to go any further.

And and then continue that goal of like, this is what we're going to use to pay this off if something were to happen. So it still gives you an out. There's still this kind of like we can eject if we need to. So maybe I'm praying she loves it. She's getting paid well. They're going to pay off the debt in two years. And I'm praying she stays with it. And it's great. But don't don't trap yourself in somebody else's world. Let's say you don't go 75, but you end up 57.

in debt when she graduates. Okay. Well, I would say obviously pay the seven off immediately and then put the 50 aside and then let them pay off that 50 within the two years. And I really want to have as much detail and as much in writing from these folks that this is going to occur also. I don't want some vague promise that a recruiter made and it's never been written down anywhere. It needs to be part of her plan

signing bonus, her, her, uh,

you know, her employment agreement when she comes on board or whatever else, that there's a written promise to do this. Because I don't want someone having a memory problem later. That's a great point. Such a great point. Juliet is with us in Greenville, South Carolina. Juliet, I'm going to bring you up after this coming break because I just looked down and saw the clock and I don't want to answer your question in 15 seconds. That probably wouldn't be a thing. So let's distinguish because, Rachel, you made the point

on his call. The seven-year plan, the 10-year plan to get somebody to pay your debt off? No.

A two-year plan, yes, but that's not a government plan there. That's a private hospital that is desperate for psych nurses. And so one of the things they're throwing out is a corporate benefit. It's not a failed Biden plan. This is a real company. That's why I said get it in writing thing. And then you're going to be okay if you do that.

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We know it's helping because we just hit number one on Apple Podcasts, of all of them. And it's kind of crazy, but we've had over a billion downloads now with a B. A billion with a B. It's just mind-blowing. But thank you. It's your fault. Thank you, guys. We appreciate you. Juliette is with us in Greenville, South Carolina, as promised. Hi, Juliette. How can we help?

Well, I wanted to ask your opinion. Me and my husband last year had about $250,000 and we invested in a CD at our credit union and it has matured. And we're wondering if we should go back to the same thing, invested in a CD, and are to look elsewhere. And we

We really don't want to take a risk with the money. So we're both 80 years old, and we didn't feel like we wanted to take a risk in the stock market. But we wanted your opinion of what you thought we should do. I would go right back and renew that CD. You would? Yeah. Okay. It doesn't pay very much. It's not a very good long-term investment.

but it gives you a lot of peace. And you told me three times you didn't want risk. And I heard you. And I heard you. Okay. Okay. So I'm 63, and I don't have any CDs. All of mine is invested in mutual funds in the stock market. But I'm comfortable with that risk. And I can tell by talking to you that if you did that with your $250,000, you would be awake at night scared.

You're probably exactly right. And the last thing I want to cause is a sweet 80-year-old person to be awake at night. Okay. Now let me ask you the second question. Do you think that any of these investment companies, would their CDs pay more than the credit union? They might, but it's not enough to fool with.

Okay. In other words, what are you getting on this CD? What are they offering you when you renew it? Well, I think she said 5.5. That's not bad at all. Okay. If you got six, but you were dealing with people you didn't know and trust, like your credit union, again, this is about sleeping well at night. And I wouldn't go jumping around and get a half a percent more and lose sleep.

Right. Because you're very comfortable with this credit union, and the NCUA does have a $250,000 guarantee on this, so you're covered on your guarantee. And if the credit union failed, in other words, like an FDIC, but with a credit union, it's not FDIC, it's called the NCUA. But anyway, yeah, you're fine there. I personally would just tell you to stay right there.

Okay, that's what I wanted your opinion. But I'll say it again for the sake of our listeners. That's not because it's that 5.5% is a great long-term investment, because it's really not.

It's because I want you to be able to sleep and 5.5% is a good CD. And we're talking about your comfort here, not about a 20-year investment horizon. That's right. Okay, so if Juliette called, she's 80 years old, and she says, Dave, we got $250,000. We just cashed out the CD. What's the best? What would you do if you were us? And she wasn't fearful of the risk. Juliette was. She was, you know, again, I appreciated you taking care of her because...

Yes, we don't want her to be stressed out. But if somebody is 80 years old with $250,000 and they're not worried about it as much, what would you do at 80 years old? Well, with some of my investments at 63, it would also be more true at 80. I'm already realizing that some of the investing I'm doing is not for me because I'll never touch it. Yeah. It's really for the next generation. Yeah.

And so, uh, you guys, the Ramsey, you know, the Ramsey kids are going to be getting this stuff. And so when I make an investment decision now, unless it's a five or a 10 year horizon, if I'm buying something out there long term, I'm obviously thinking about, you know, the next generation after I'm gone. And so, uh,

you know, if we're to superimpose that on her situation, if you've got $250,000 and you're putting it into a CD, that tells me you're not living on it because that CD's not paying you monthly. So you don't need a return on that. So they've got other money that they're living on. So they very likely...

unless something comes up and they need this money. Sure, sure. But they very likely are doing their investing for the next generation at 80 years old. And so if you took that mindset, it'd be easy to put it in mutual funds because...

You might not be here five years, but the next generation will be. Sure. Yeah. And they could leave it alone. We're going to dump $250,000 in mutual funds, and then when we pass, it'll pass to the kids. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's wild. And you never touch it. You're not really investing for yourself at that point. Yes. Okay. So here's what's funny. I was telling you during the break, Winston and I sat with our Smart Investor Pro this morning. We do it once a year and kind of look at all the investments. Yeah.

And I was actually telling someone in the lobby, Avery, she's 15, and she was talking about her Roth IRA. And I told her that I looked at when I started mine and when I started working for you guys, even in high school and all of it. And as we're talking through all the numbers and looking at everything, our investment pro, he was like, okay, this is good. I'm here and here and here. And he's like, and what's crazy is what you guys are investing here, you probably won't touch. It'll be for your kids.

And so as you're saying this to me, your daughter, you're investing money that you won't touch. I'm investing money I probably won't touch. And that, you guys, is a family tree change. Like when we say that what you're doing today... When you don't need the money to live or to do the things you want to do. Yeah, to pass that on. And when you give...

to your kids' parents out there with little ones and teach them to work and be able for them to live out the principles on their own regardless of what their parents are doing.

And then they teach it to their kids, right? It's just this big, big legacy snowball effect that just keeps turning over and over. When everyone does their part in each generation, it just keeps it going down the line. I mean, it's pretty remarkable. And it's really encouraging all to you out there that are on baby steps one, two, and three, and you're really grinding it out. Well, and if you blink. You start to do this. If you blink, it'll be 20 years. Because that Roth IRA you did as a teenager is 20 years old. Mm-hmm.

And that money that you were working and, you know, I felt a tax return. I paid the taxes on it. It was an $800 initial investment. Yep. Isn't that funny? He pulled it up. It was $800. That was what your earned income was that year. Yeah. And that's what you're allowed to report. And I put that into a Roth. And then the next year, I think it was probably $1,500 or something or whatever. I mean, several years in a row, we did that with each of you as you worked.

But, I mean, 20 years later, it's amazing what that becomes. It's great. It's crazy. Lindsay is in Illinois. Hi, Lindsay. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hello. So my question for you is if I should keep the house that I have or if I should sell it and buy a less expensive home. How much is your house payment? It is $525 a month. How are you going to get less expensive than $525 a month?

Well, that doesn't include my homeowner's insurance or my real estate taxes. Yeah, okay. How much do you make, Lindsay? I make $40,000. $40,000. Is there something wrong with the house you're in? No, it's just very big, and I have a hard time paying the real estate taxes. How much are your real estate taxes? $3,500. That's $300 a month, which makes you have an $800 house payment making $40,000. You ought to be able to do that on a budget.

Sounds like you've got debt in other places that are causing the strain, or you're not budgeting, one of the two. Your real estate's not your problem. This is The Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling authors, author of several books, including the latest kids' book,

I'm glad for what I have. Yeah. And it blew up and we've sold out of them. We've got the reorder back in now. We're back on... Amazon's still sold out. So come to RamseySolutions.com to get a copy. And just to do a shout out, I know this is a show all over the world, but...

I'm doing a book signing at the Books-A-Million in Mount Juliet on Saturday. You are? Yep. I'm going to do two readings. An old-fashioned book signing. I am. I know. At 11 o'clock Central Time. We used to do those before the Fauci pandemic. I want...

That's so cool. I do. I love a book signing. I love hanging out with people. I want to. So. That's cool. I know. The Mount Juliet Book Sommelier reached out and we were like, yeah, let's do some local book signing. And Book Sommelier is a great company too. I've done a bunch with them over the years. Yeah. So anyone in the Nashville area, come out on Saturday. And the Mount Juliet, that's got a fairly new store out there. Yeah. Yeah. It's a nice area out there now. Beautiful. Or not now. It always is. Mount Juliet always has been.

Yeah, there you go. Well, I mean, it's all kind of blown up and there's a bunch of new stuff. Yes, yes. Rachel is in Sacramento. Hi, Rachel. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, guys. Happy Wednesday. Happy Wednesday. How can we help? So my husband and I own a house that faces a pretty busy road, and we've been discussing what the next plan of this year

part of our life is and there's been a project on this road to widen it and so I You're kidding there's road construction in California? I know right? The

The steak flour is an orange cone. It's got to be beautiful, Dave. It's got to be beautiful. In any case, we're concerned, or I am concerned, I'm more concerned than my husband, about eventually getting an imminent domain situation.

where we would have to sell it. We kind of want to make this our home home, and so we've put a lot of sweat equity and have some good equity in it. So I would prefer to sell the investment now and...

go and find something that we can actually make our home or we kind of gamble and see whether or not they take our whole house or just up to our front door. Because your quality of life, Rachel, changes drastically, right? When this happens, would you say, I mean, like, do you feel that? Yeah. I'm like that. Yeah. It changes. Are they for sure going to take something or you're just thinking, have they already announced a,

A lane widening that is going to take some of your yard, or you're just thinking that pretty soon they're going to?

So they have announced and are actively working on the street we live on to widen it. But they take it, like, block by block. So we are the next block. But they haven't announced that. And they have – there's a process. So this wouldn't be, like, right now. I'm just preparing. We've been in a couple of years. Yeah, but your buyer would know all of this. Yeah.

It's so they might know all of this. It hasn't been announced that our block is actively being worked on and they have to get, you know, a whole bunch of permits and grants and things. So it'll be a few years, but that's why I'd like to sell before this is in front of us. Go ahead and sell it. What's wrong with selling it now?

We are adjacent to the area we'd like to be in, but those houses are selling for like $700,000, and we only have about $200,000 in equity. So we would either have to be really stretched. $440,000, $460,000. Okay. Well, do you need to move? Do you need to move? Yes. Do you need to double the price of your house? No. Okay. Okay.

So, I mean, there's some other options on the table here somewhere. I mean, you guys could, Rachel, go rent somewhere for a year or two, save, and then go to where you guys want to be. What's your household income? No.

We have about 92,000 annual right now. I just got another job, though. Okay. Well, I guess you guys talk through what we tell folks to do is never take out a mortgage more than a 15-year where the payment's more than a fourth of your take-home pay. If you can make a move to another neighborhood that fits that...

that gets all of this uncertainty out of your life, then yes, I would do that. No, I would not use this as an excuse to overbuy and put yourself in a pinch on the other side and go, oh, well, we had to. No, you didn't. No, you didn't.

You didn't have to get yourself bankrupt. So just buy a home where the payment, after you put your down payment, your equity from your other house, is no more than a fourth of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed. If you're doing that, I'm all for your move. If you're going to take out more than that, I'm not for your move. And that's the guidelines that we use around here. Jacob is in Rochester, New York. Hi, Jacob. How are you? Hi, Dave. How are you today? I'm good. Good. How can we help?

So I am 18 years old. I'm attending, I'm a freshman at a small university in upstate New York going for astrophysics. And what I'm calling about today is, unfortunately, a couple months ago, my father passed away. Oh, no. What happened? He had a heart attack while he was mowing the lawn. How old was he, Jacob? How old was he, Jacob?

He turned 60 in July. I'm so sorry. Oh my gosh. I'm so sorry. Oh, wow. Thank you. Oh, that's tragic. So yeah. So the reason that I'm calling is because he also left me a pretty substantial amount of money through his life insurance policy, which was 334,000 in cash. And so my question is what I should be doing with that.

I do have a thought in the back of my head right now. Obviously, paying cash for college would make sense, I would think. Right now, it's going to be about $80,000 to $100,000 to finish my degree. How were you paying for the degree before it was passing? Well, my mom had about $35,000 saved up in a college fund. It was a little bit more before the pandemic, and then it went down a little bit, but

That's what she actually does. So we were going to take out student loans, you know, as you do, and just pay them off, you know, like any normal person would. So that was the original plan. Wow. So this sounds like when you've gone through a tragedy and when you're 18 years old, this sounds like it's a lot of money. And it's not. It will evaporate if you're not very, very careful.

So you have to... That's what I'm really worried about. Yeah, you have to like raise your right hand and pretend like that money's not there. Swear off of it, okay? With the only exception being just paying college tuition. And I want you to drain down the college fund before you even touch this for those purposes. So what I want you to do is, number one, swear off of using the money. I want you to figure out a way to get through life with no student loans, okay?

and without burning this money. So we're not going and buying a car. We're not going and buying a house. We're not going on a trip. We're not doing anything like that, okay? We're simply going to get through school and live on beans and rice while we're doing it. That's it. Then when you get through school and have your degree, go get a job, and then that money's sitting there and can grow as an investment and be a huge blessing to you later on, okay?

So let's pretend that 330, you use it up. You use 80 and finish school. That leaves you 250. If you'll leave it alone in seven years at 25 years old, that 250 will be a half a million. If you'll leave it alone in seven years, that half a million will be a million at 32. At 32 years old, you're a millionaire. If you'll figure out a way to live and use $80,000 of this for tuition and leave your hands off the rest of it, that's kind of cool.

Yeah, that would be amazing. Yeah. Yeah. That's what the numbers will do. But the big problem is not the money. The big problem is you keeping your hands off of it. And that's in a mutual fund. Yep. That's in a good mutual fund. So jump on RamseySolutions.com and click on SmartVestor and sit down with a SmartVestor Pro and learn about mutual funds and...

talk through how you can use 80 of this to finish your school, get a job, live with your own earnings, and keep your hands off of this, and it'll make you a millionaire when you're 32. That's kind of cool. Sorry you're going through this, but it could be a huge blessing, obviously. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth.

Do work that they love to create actual amazing relationships.

Thank you for being with us, America. The phone number here is 888-825-5225. Number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, and host of the Smart Money Happy Hour is Rachel Cruz. She's my co-host today, also my daughter. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Chase is in Mobile, Alabama. Hi, Chase. How are you? I'm great. How are y'all? Better than we deserve. How can we help? So I've got a lot of...

Upcoming changes this year expected in my finances. I'm 25 years old. I just got a...

move up in my career to where I'm expected to double or triple my expected salary this year. I was going from around $40,000 to $60,000. I'm expecting to make somewhere around $150,000 to $200,000 myself this year. Wow. What do you do? I've been a welder for the past several years, but I just became qualified and lined up some jobs to become a welding inspector, which is going to come with a lot more money. Wow. Good for you. Well done. Good job, Chase.

But I'm also getting married this September, and my wife or my fiancée, she's a nurse, and we've lived together for a while now. So not only am I going to increase my own income, but her income is going to join with mine as well as the debts combined. So everything is just going to dramatically change this year, and I'm just wondering how to navigate. We have a small debt. I'm in the house.

and her car and her student loans totaled to less than $200,000. I have no debt personally, and then the increase dramatically as well as getting married. So I was just wondering, what's your advice on how to navigate this upcoming year? Well, congratulations. What a great year. Yes, sir. Thank you. How old are you? 25. Good for you. That's great, Chase. How much does she make a year?

I would say close to $70,000, $75,000. That's amazing. So you guys will be up to almost $300,000 together. Yes, ma'am. I'm hoping so. Well, he's going to make $200,000. He's making $150,000, right? Somewhere between $150,000 and $200,000. It's kind of hard to gauge. Okay. I jumped to $250,000. So still a quarter million dollars at 25 years old. Way to go. Yeah, that's amazing. So is the house, is it in her name? It is. And how much do you owe on that?

I want to say about $160,000. Okay. And how much does she owe on her car? Maybe $10,000 left. And student loans? Maybe $10,000 on that as well. Okay. Well, the first thing I would do, Chase, is, and hopefully you guys are having these conversations now, but I would sit down and make sure you guys are on the same track.

when it comes to your money, that you guys have the same goals, you have the same value systems around money, and you guys work as a team. My husband and I, we just went to lunch before the show, and we do this every January where we sit down and we look at last year, we look at this coming year, and even just dreaming and talking through tactical things, but also just kind of big goals for the year, and just knowing that we have...

The same we approach money differently, right? I'm the spender. He's the saver like like there's natural personalities within it But we are a team and we see ourselves moving in the same direction. So chase I would Uh, if you haven't already making sure that you guys from a value system standpoint what I mean by that is We're not going to use debt Uh, we have goals here here and here like we are working in the same direction Together I think would be number one is what I would say to you

And then number two, make a plan to get rid of this debt. I mean, pay off the car, pay off the student loan, have a big goal to pay off the house, which you guys absolutely can do, especially with your income here in the next few years. So there's some really fun things you guys can do, Chase. I just want to make sure that you all are in agreement on what to do and even how to go about that. Do you feel like you guys are in a similar mindset with that or will that be kind of a big conversation? Yeah.

I feel confident we can be on the same page. I'd say she's been the more responsible financially over the past five or six years. We've been together for two years, but she was purchasing a house and a vehicle and doing things. But she was doing it with debt. I mean, yeah, she was buying a car and stuff, but I mean...

Where I have I've never really had anything But I never made much money And now I'm about to start making a lot of money And I'm just trying to learn how to use it Yeah and you can easily creep into lifestyle creep Well Chase if you Hold on the line Austin's going to pick up because I want to gift you guys As a wedding gift from us To you Financial Peace University So this is our nine lesson course

And you guys watch these videos together. Also throw in Every Dollar Premium, and that's our budgeting app. And you guys together, again, learn together, sit down together. And this subject is one, Chase, that can be a point of unity and excitement or a point of a lot of pain for married couples. So starting off on that same mindset, I think, is the first big, big step. The last detail is do not...

pay any of her debt with your money until you're married. Right. Okay. So after September, it's ours, our house, our car, our student loan, our income until September. It's separate. You just have a roommate and you don't pay your roommate stuff. You get yourself in legal and relational pinches if you do that.

So, um, you wait until after you're married to pay each to pay on each other's stuff. Okay. And then you combine everything when you're married. So hang on. Austin, I'll pick up and we'll get you signed up for all that. What a great year you've got ahead of you. So fun chase. Congratulations. Yeah. Very, very proud of you.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. George Camel has a brand new book coming out next week. January 16th on Tuesday is launch date. It's called Breaking Free from Broke. You can preorder it today for only $20 and get $100 in free bonus items, including instant access to George's newest talk, Show Me the Money, exclusive access to an online private event and a Q&A with George, audio book and e-book, JVC,

January 15th is the last day you can get all that stuff for $20, including the book, and we'll ship it all to you on the 16th. If you wait until the 16th, the book will be $20, and that's what you'll get as a book. So you want all the good stuff? You get it now. That's a good idea. This book is incredible. It exposes the most common money myths and excuses head-on. It deals with all the traps and the myths and the garbage out there. Really good research in here. George has done a great job with that. That's funny.

And he's funny. He's funny. He's so snarky and so smart. It's all good. So check it out, RamseySolutions.com slash store. And go ahead and get your copy now of Breaking Free from Broke, The Ultimate Guide to More Money and Less Stress. This book...

When I read it, it reminded me of my first book, Financial Peace, where we went through all the different things about money. And George, of course, does it in a very millennial way with a lot of snark and a lot of fun and really good up-to-date, cutting-edge research on this stuff. It's worth a read. You will like it. Breaking Free from Broke by George Camel. This is The Ramsey Show.

Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Sam is in Canada. Hey, Sam, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thank you, Dave, for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

So I have my question and I've always tied it 10% of our income, but I guess I just wanted to get a bit of advice or validation, I suppose, regarding where we are with our baby steps. So right now we're at baby step number four and we're working towards five and six and putting 15% towards investing. Okay.

But since we tithe, it's not a lot of margin to work with. So I guess I just wanted to see what your take is regarding that. Okay. Well, first and foremost, with the tithe, I'm anything but a legalist. God does not need your money, and he doesn't love you more if you tithe, and he doesn't withhold blessings if you don't tithe. I can't find any of that in Scripture. Okay.

But what I am sure of, of having taught this biblical finance for 30-plus years now, that God has us to tithe as a baseline, a starter point in our generosity because he wants to teach us to be generous, to take on that character quality of his because he is obviously a giver. And so your Heavenly Father is not mad at you about your percentages or anything else.

I personally in that mindset then have chosen to never miss a tithe check.

Because it's at least a minimal starting point for my generosity. And I'm always trying to learn to be a good investor and a good giver and a good budgeter, a good steward, all of those things. And so the tithe is first fruits in Old Testament. It's off the top before anything else. But it's not a salvation issue.

It's not a God's love issue. It's none of that. It's simply your heavenly father saying, this is the best way to ride a bicycle. This is the best way to handle money. It's the best way to live your life is to have a natural, steady rhythm of generosity. And 10% is a starting point. I find people that are not, they're not stringent enough with it.

And then I find people who are so legalistic with it that they get confused about it. And so I try to not be on either one of those sides. I would have rather be just on a different spectrum. But if I were in your shoes, I would take 10% off the top before I did anything. It's what I do. Yeah. And I would say to Sam with giving probably anything in money, but I think especially giving

There's an interesting habit that's created that when it does just become the rhythm and you stop kind of looking at the number leaving and all of that. And it's just it's kind of one of those things you said, this is who I am. I'm a giver and this is what we do in our household.

And it almost kind of becomes that non-negotiable and it's that habit and it continues and continues. It will continue through your life, obviously, as you're choosing to do that action. And where people get tripped up is they believe, well, if I just had more money or if I get to this certain part, it'll be easier to give. You know, we can kind of like make that argument. And to a degree, a small percentage, I get it.

But what's crazy is if you're not in the habit of it, it doesn't become easier. People think, well, if I just had, you know, X amount more a year, it would be easier.

But when your baseline is with your habits a certain way, even getting that amount, it gets eaten up with life. And, you know, it's just this thought of if I just had more, it would be easier doesn't always come to fruition. Sometimes it becomes harder. So making it a rhythm in your life. Yeah. J.P. Morgan told the story that when he was a child, he went out and earned a dollar and 50 cents and he brought it home to his mom and she spread it out on the table and

and she said, what are you going to do with it? And he said, what should I do with it? And she said, I would be very happy if you would tithe on it. And he said, I tithed the first $1.50 I ever made, and I tithed every dollar thereafter. Oh, it was Rockefeller. It was Rockefeller. I said, Morgan, it was Rockefeller. Yeah. And, you know, it started with $1.50. It didn't start with the first time I finally got $15,000 a month. That's right. That's right. So you're right to start.

When it's there, and I mean, I remember the first time I gave $1,000 as a tithe. I thought, wow, that means I made $10,000. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. And then I remember the first time I gave $10,000.

Oh, my gosh. It means I made $100,000. Oh, my gosh. You know, and, you know, but as if you're somehow doing God a favor, it's kind of funny. It's kind of funny. He's up there giggling going, yeah, Big Dave's helping me out here. And again, it's not a legalistic thing, Sam, but also with your specific question, baby steps four through six, that's a long time. So like...

That's a long process, right? I mean, if someone's like, can I skip the tithe for a month, X, Y, and Z? I'm like, listen, you're not legalistic about this, you guys. But that would be a habit shift. Four through six is a long time frame where your habit would change. And I just don't want that for you. I want you to be in that consistent habit. We tithed, just for everybody's information, all the way into bankruptcy court.

And all the way out. So those people that say you automatically are protected or blessed when you tithe, bull crap. You still have free will to make bad decisions with money. Yeah, you can still wreck the car, I can promise you, okay? So, I mean, I did have one of those blue-haired ladies say, well, you just didn't have enough faith. And I said, well, honey, they took everything else. All I had left was faith.

So, you know, that's just not true, okay? So experientially or biblically. And what's wild is, you know, when you do give, and I think this is probably true if you consider yourself a spiritual person or not.

You experience this level of joy. You know, there were some videos going around that our team did. George did some. Jay did some of giving. And I'm like, you even watching it, I wasn't even there participating in it. They were giving away my money and they were joyful. And you just cry. I mean, as a viewer of the videos, you just cry. I'm like, there is something about joy that you just can't get. I mean, like there's beautiful wonders of the world. There's awesome cars. I mean, there's things in life that are great to go and experience and buy and

But there is just something that touches us in our human souls that giving does that other things just don't. And it provides longer lasting joy. And to rob yourself of that too is amazing.

is unfair to you as a person. So that's why we say to be giving regardless of your baby step at the top of the every dollar budget, our budgeting app giving is the very first line item, which is very different than a lot of other financial experts out there that you will hear, uh,

This is an important value system of our plan because, again, it's for you, right? You experience something that is so beautiful and so wonderful. And then the added benefit or the first benefit, I guess, is that it's helping the other person on the other side, right? That actually needs it. So there's something about it, you guys, that you just you don't want to miss it. It's hard to find someone that's depressed, that's outrageously generous. Very difficult to find. Not many of them out there.

It's hard to find someone that makes a bad husband or a bad wife that is outrageously generous. It's hard to find them. They hard, very unusual, very unusual. So the, you know, generosity is not an act. It's a character quality. And what we're doing is developing the character quality. And so it, and that results in acts of generosity, but the, the, it's a,

like integrity. There are acts that show integrity, acts that show honesty, but it's actually a quality. It's a human quality that you can adopt and choose to be that. You can just decide today, I'm a person of integrity. I'm a generous person. And Sam, all of that's not directed at you. Your question was answered early on in this discussion, but

But it got us on a soapbox because we love to talk about if you'll live like no one else later, you can live and give like no one else. You can put yourself in a position that you can give more than you made, than you used to make in a year. You can put yourself in that position and watch what it does change.

to those around you. Watch what it does to your face when you do that, folks. You cannot mess up generosity. It's almost impossible. It's the easiest of the financial principles to grasp. And Sam, thank you for letting us jump off on our soapbox after we answered your question. This is The Ramsey Show.

Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Armand and Romina are with us. Hey guys, how are you? Hello Dave. Hi Rachel. It is crazy being up here.

Welcome, welcome. Where do you guys live? We live in Anaheim, California, right next to Disneyland. Yeah, very cool. Welcome to Nashville. Good to have you. Thank you for having us. Good to be here. And how much debt have you paid off? We paid off over a little bit of $130,000. Excellent. How long did this take? 20 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? We started off around $119,000 and then we bumped up our income to $180,000.

Cool. What do you all do for a living? I'm a registered nurse. I work at a hospital on the orthopedic unit. Oh, cool. And then I'll be doing...

nursing education at the end of the month. So I'm also going to do a part-time teaching job. Neat. Yes. And I'm a freelance videographer and I also worked at a nursing facility as an activities assistant. Oh, excellent. Good for you guys. Well done. What kind of debt was your $130,000? Pretty much everything, like normal people. We had student loans, credit cards that we used for some of his equipment for work, little things.

We also had a Subaru that we paid off as well. That was the last thing. And then we were also able to cash flow a car during that process while we were expecting a baby boy. Yeah. There we go. There we go. Good for you. Sweet.

Well done. Thank you. So what happened two years ago that put you guys on this Ramsey plan? It's a really long story, but I will make it short. I just kind of want to have a precursor story. So me and Armin have always been weird people. We've been together for 14 years. We were long distance starting our relationship. So he was in San Francisco. I was in Orange County, California. So we did that for five years.

And then we got married in 2018. So we've been married for five years. Mm-hmm.

And then during the pandemic 2020, we were like, that's our year. We wanna get a house and we wanna move out, which we did. However, in the beginning of 2020, we had no idea that the pandemic was going to happen. So Armin got laid off. He got laid off. - After the house, after buying the house? - No, before. - Before. - Okay, okay. - Yes. And so we were quarantined in my mom's house, which was quite an interesting experience 'cause it was a full house.

We had these big plans to move out and get our own place together. But that didn't stop us. We were like, you know what? While everyone's losing their homes and their jobs, even though you are laid off, like, let's do it. Let's just go. So I picked up three jobs.

I was a registered nurse during COVID, during the pandemic. Yes. And then I was selling keto low carb cookies as a bake sale just to kind of make extra cash. So I would wake up early in the morning, make some cookies, go to work, did three jobs. And I was doing my master's online while I was doing it. And I was collecting his EDD checks. Wow. Yes. My gosh. Yes. So back to what I was saying, I feel like if we were able to do that, we were like, you know what?

We didn't even know what gazelle intense was, but we were doing it. It was instilled in our bodies and our mind and our spirit, our souls as a couple. And I said, if we can do that during the pandemic and save up a down payment during COVID with no job, what more can we do this to pay off our debt? So we decided to do that.

How'd you find us? My brother was telling us, hey, have you guys thought about paying off your debts and so forth? And at first we were kind of like, yeah, it's okay. Like, we'll just keep it. Like, we're not in any rush to do it. But what he said really stuck with me. And then I remember I was watching YouTube trying to see how to get out of debt.

And I came across the Ramsey show and I remember watching Candice from Indianapolis who paid off 230,000 something of her debt by herself. I was like, what more we can do it. And other, other couples out there, they had smaller shovels than we did. They had their little trowels. And I was like, you know what? We got a shovel. Like, let's kill it. Let's do this. So we did it. We, we definitely worked really hard.

through it all yes way to go that's amazing thank you so much that's amazing okay and then how old how old's the baby uh shiloh is eight months shiloh's eight months so he can't yeah so you guys were expecting a baby during some of this too we actually experienced a miscarriage in february of 2022. so sorry that's okay um i don't need anyone's pity it's cool god got out of the plan

of the plans and I'm so glad he did because once that happened, we were like, you know, let's clean up this mess. We don't have kids. Let's just do this. Let's take care of everything. So when that time comes,

we can set ourselves up better when a baby comes. - Yeah, during COVID, I was seeing how hard she was working. And I was just like, when I lost my job and I was on EDD for a while, I've always been passionate about video and videography. And I always just was like, okay, is there a way to kind of make this my thing? Like after I lost my job, I used to work at a pharmacy company.

for seven years before I got laid off in COVID. And so, but on the sides, I've always done like creative work, like with video and stuff like that. And then I was just like looking at how hard she was working and I was like inspired. And I remember going to Las Vegas to one of your conferences. And instantly I was just hearing other people's testimonials and then I was hearing you guys talk. And then from there with combination with like the actual like miscarriage and stuff like that, I was super inspired to just kind of just

run with it and then go with what my heart was telling me like passionate wise like I wanted I supported him all the way I said you know what do it Ken Coleman would be so proud of you it was a risky time it was so risky to jump into something that I didn't know like didn't seem very like stable but like I wanted to do it I know my heart was in it

And then, you know, luckily, like a year later, I just started contracting out with the companies that I continue to work for till this day. And it's been my full time thing ever since. Wow. Very good. That's amazing. I'm so proud of him. So when people find out you paid off one hundred and thirty thousand dollars of debt in 20 months and they say, how'd you do that? What do you tell them the keys to getting out of debt are?

I would say discipline and you have to have a reason why. For those two reasons, even if you go off budget or you get lazy, those

those two reasons will bring you back. Um, and I think teamwork really matters as well. Teamwork for sure. There was a time where we were kind of, um, during baby step pause or baby step two pause, I'm sorry. We were kind of getting lazy and it was like the first trimester. I was like, I don't want to eat at home. Like I want to eat out. Like this baby wants in and out every day. I don't know. Once fried. I just

wanted to eat out and I was like you know let's give ourselves grace like let's budget whatever we had some margin so we did eat out and things like that but once we knew that once the baby comes we're gonna go back into it and we did and I remember I was on the website actually I was bored at work and I went on the website and then I saw our picture on the website and I remember like I

oh my gosh, like we're on the Ramsey website. Like now we have to do this. We can, we cannot be on this page. Was it from the conference? Oh my gosh. And so when I went on it,

went on it I was like oh my god Armin we are we're on the website we can't be seen in an outburger now no we cannot be a hypocrite that's like putting your face on the post office oh my god exactly so I said okay it relit a fire under our butts and we definitely went back we went back into it so discipline and your reason why because it will bring you back and get on the Ramsey website so now we know how to get people motivated we just got to put them on the site or they just have a really cool mullet haircut and then I told them I was like I don't

like i don't know why they picked us maybe we look really broke i have no idea with that haircut yeah he had this weird mullet if they can do it anyone can do it you guys are awesome thank you so much we love you guys so much we're so proud of you you've changed your life thank you way to go heroes

Thank you. We've got the Baby Steps Millionaires book, the Total Money Makeover book, and a Financial Peace University membership for you to live or give. That's the live and give box to say thanks for coming from all the way from California. You guys got it going. I'm proud of you. Thank you. Well done. Well done. And now we know a new secret. Just put them on the website.

More motivation. Yes. Armand and Romina. Romina. Romina and Shiloh from Anaheim, California. $130,000 paid off in 20 months, making $119,000 to $180,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're done! Yeah! That's how that's done, boys and girls. Woo-hoo! This is The Ramsey Show.

Our scripture of the day, Psalms 3419, the righteous person may have troubles, but the Lord delivers him from them all. Maya Angelou said, I have learned that even when I have pains, I don't have to be one. Kyle is with us in Indiana. Hi, Kyle. How are you? Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call, Ms. Rachel. Good to be talking to you, too. How are y'all doing today? Thank you, Kyle. Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help?

Well, I'm a big fan of y'all. I pay a lot of attention to you. I'm 30. I just turned 30 last week, and I did some stupid about a year ago, thinking that building a good credit score is a good way to leverage equity on my home and invest in real estate. But I know better now. I know better. So I leveraged the motorcycle, and I'm on about a three-month course of getting it paid the rest of the way off.

And other than that, I just have a mortgage on my home and I have a paid for investment property that is ready to be moved into or sell. And my question for you is today, should I sell the investment property, which I have about a third of what it's worth into it and pay my mortgage off or keep it and let it cashflow 950 a month and pay my mortgage off early? How much do you make a year, Kyle?

I own an HVAC business here, and I gross $52,000 a year from that as a salary. Okay. And how much do you owe on your primary home? $73,000. $73,000? Yeah. Okay. And how much is the rental worth? I'd say, I talked to a realtor about it, and they said upwards between $130,000 and $150,000 is a realistic measure for it. Oh, nice. Well, my knee jerk, Kyle, I'll be curious, the real estate...

guy over here that loves real estate. I mean, it's a paid for asset, right? And do you enjoy it? Like, do you enjoy, have you been, I guess you haven't been out long. You just got it. Yeah, I guess that's true. I was going to say, does that sound like a burden to you to put renters in and everything? Yeah.

No, I bought it in February last year, and I've spent the last year working on it myself. I put all new HVAC, all new flooring, all new water lines, redid the bathroom, did new drywall and power. Everything is refreshed and new in this home, and it's all paid for. So it's a $9.50 a month generator if I rent it out, and I'm targeting rest care patients, which is the home health aid patients.

people that have 24-hour care and are you married yes i'm married what does she make my wife she's stay-at-home mom okay so your household income is 50 000 bucks you owe 75 and the rental's worth 130 is that the right numbers correct okay all right um well if you keep the rental

You guys have, you and your wife have got to lock arms and say, what can we do to tighten up everything? And let's go ahead and get this house paid off. Because the bad news is you've got a mortgage on your house and not on your rental. The good news is it's not much of a mortgage. It's only $75,000. And so, you know, $25,000 a year. It's gone in three years.

We'll have to up our income. And do something to increase your income during that time or something like that. That's fine. If you're not making good progress on chunking away at your mortgage, like really big old chunks, within a couple of years, I'm selling the rental. Okay. If you want to keep it and give that a run, I would. But you don't want to look up 10 years from now, still have a mortgage and a paid for rental.

No, that's not going to happen. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Do you have any money saved, Kyle? Do you guys have an emergency fund or anything? I did, and I woke up, smelled the roses, and said, we're paying this Harley off. Oh, that's the bike. So I left $1,200 in the money market, and I took about $6,800 and threw it on the Harley. Okay, so first thing we've got to do is we've got to rebuild the emergency fund. The next thing we've got to do is develop a game plan to pay off your house.

in big chunks and if you're not going to pay it off in big chunks then I would dump the rental there's a part of me that would just dump it Kyle yeah because that would give you a lot of peace yeah that would put money back in a savings that would pay off the car that would pay off the house and then if you guys want to get in the rental business and do it later um and save up and do it but there is a part of me that would just want the peace of mind today you know

But it was not a bad answer to just sell it today. But if you, you know, I can listen, I can listen to your, the way you're talking about it. You don't want to sell it. You want to try it. You want to give this a run. So if you're going to give it a run, then you've get the, the trade-off is over on the other side over here. We've got to pay a price and get this stinking mortgage gone.

because I would not have done what you've done. But you're there now, so let's figure out what the best way forward is now. All right, Stephen is with us in Jacksonville, Florida. Hi, Stephen. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can we help?

I basically just had, I needed some guidance on this truck, on this car loan that I got going on. Me and my wife, we recently signed up for your financial peace university. And so we are on step one, which is getting the thousand dollars in savings. But with the budgeting, I'm pretty sure we're going to get there pretty soon within the next couple months. So I'm already starting to think about the second baby step, which is paying off our debt.

And the biggest debt, we don't have that much really. The biggest debt that we have is my truck. And I wanted to get some advice on how I should really handle that. I wasn't sure when I have the income. What do you owe on? $27,000. What's your household income? Annually, we take home about $66,000. I'd sell it. Sell it? Yep. Okay. You have too much invested in cars.

that are going down in value. You have over half your annual income, including her car, tied up in cars. It's too much. Even if your truck was paid for, I'd sell it. Because you're going to turn $27,000 into $10,000 in about 20 minutes. And I like it. I mean, I drive a nice truck. I drove a truck to work today. You know, I love my Raptor. So, you know, I'm not against having a nice truck. I just don't want your nice truck to have you, and it does right now. It owns you.

Now, if you all see that your income is going to be coming up significantly and you want to fight through and pay it off, that's okay. But rule of thumb is, Stephen, don't have things with motors and wheels or wheels added together that equal more than half your annual income.

Because if you do, you have too much tied up in things that are going down in value. Because if it's got wheels and or a motor, it's going down in value. Yeah. Period. Yeah. And Steven, to earlier what you said of getting that thousand dollars. I mean, we want you to do that even faster. You said a couple of months and I would, I would challenge you. Yeah. What can you sell? What can you do? I mean, what to scrape together a thousand dollars like ASAP. That's the fastest baby step that we want you to just hit and tackle. Yeah.

because it changes the momentum of the whole process too. Garage sale, Facebook marketplace, whatever you got to do. Sell so much stuff the kids think they're next. And really, I want baby step one done in one month. $1,000 in one month. You ought to be able to go out there and scratch that together from different sources. Get the nickels out of the corner of the couch, everything. Yep, yep. And when you sell this truck, it'll free up that.

That payment every month. Which is probably 800 bucks a month. Yeah. So you'll be able to do it faster. And you may have to take out a loan on the difference to Steven on the truck. If you're upside down. If you're upside down on it. That may be a realistic thing and scrape together some money and get something else. Yeah. And yeah, but it's. But when you're losing as much as you lose on vehicles and you have so much tied up in vehicles, so many dollars against vehicles. Yeah.

um, of any kind boats, sea dues, snowmobiles, side-by-sides, whatever the thing is, it's going down in value. Harley's the last caller, right? And guys, it's just hard to get ahead because you're losing every year on every one of those things. And, uh, I'm not against you having a nice car. I'm just against you being able to afford it. You got to get yourself in a position that you can afford to lose that kind of money.

and you're not there right now so if i'm you the shortest distance for you is dumping that truck and getting yourself under control thanks for calling in bro sorry to be the bearer sell the truck i'm that guy i'm that guy just because i love you and i want you to win that puts us out of the ramsey show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

Thank you.

Hey, folks, Dave Ramsey here. You know, budgeting doesn't have to be boring. You just need a budgeting app that's made with you in mind, and that's EveryDollar. The EveryDollar app has helped millions of people work the baby steps and take the stress out of planning and managing their money. Start budgeting with EveryDollar for free right now. Just go to RamseySolutions.com slash EveryDollar and download the app today. That's RamseySolutions.com slash EveryDollar.