Learning To Let Go of Your Financial Mistakes 02:05:29

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life. We're going to help you win with your money. We want you to win in your work. We want you to win in your relationships. We're here to coach you, encourage you along the way. The phone number is 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Joining me today is Rachel Cruz, the incomparable, the graceful,

Rachel Cruz, and she's our money expert. All the adjectives. I kept it simple. I didn't want to get too long in the list and make it look like flattery. And I'm Ken Coleman. I'm going to help you in the areas of work. How about more income? That bigger shovel to get through the baby steps faster. I want to help you there. So we're going to work together to help you. Phoenix, Arizona is where we go. Brandon is joining us there. Brandon, how can we help?

Hey guys, thank you for taking my call. I really appreciate it. I just found the Baby Steps and the Ramsey Solutions about two months ago. And I have to say, y'all have been a blessing. I've been listening to you guys on my podcast while I side hustle for Uber. And then also reading Rachel's book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. And I read the Baby Step Millionaire book by Dave in my

Wow. That's awesome. You're binging it all, Brandon. I'm going all in. It's long overdue. What's driving it? I love the intensity, but what's driving it? Yeah, so I just retired as a Major League Baseball player after nine seasons professionally, two in the major leagues.

And I've also gone through some hardships just in terms of a relationship. I had an engagement fail back in 2021. And then I also had basically my career just got derailed by injuries the past few years. Sorry about that. What position did you play? I was a pitcher, and I had three elbow surgeries, two Tommy Johns, and an ulnar collateral ligament. Oh, my goodness.

Yeah, so basically I'm transitioning. I'm going to church. I'm tithing for the first time ever in my life, which is great. I'm just kind of ashamed of that, just given the amount of money I made as a professional athlete. But that's the reason I'm calling. I know I'm long-winded. But how does someone like myself who's transitioning into a new career path deal with –

financial mistakes of my past and letting go of that shame and guilt that I feel. And then also too, I've got a kind of a, I'm in a little bit of a budget situation that I could really use some advice on. All right. So real quick, don't Rachel to dive into this, but have, so do you have any money at all? Cause I, as a pitcher, you probably did well.

Yeah, well, that's the thing is like I made out of the draft. I was given $300,000 signing bonus. And obviously after taxes, that's a lot less turned into a hundred, 185,000. And I was drafted in 2016. And I,

Unfortunately for me, I didn't have parents. They're still in the rat race. They are still in debt. In terms of Rachel's book, kind of the type of parents that they didn't talk about money. All I really saw as a kid was there was never enough. Let me ask you this really quick. Did you sign a contract or was that the only money your initial contract? What kind of money do you have right now?

Okay, sorry. I have $28,000 in my Roth IRA. I have $50,000 in individual brokerage account. And then I have about $45,000 in the MLB 401k plan. Mm-hmm.

And then in terms of like checking, I've got about $2,000 there. And then I'm working on rebuilding my emergency fund. Unfortunately, I've only got about a baby step one of a thousand bucks. Are you just Ubering? Is that the only income you're bringing in? No. So I actually just got a job. I won't say the organization, but I accepted a coaching position for a major league team in the minor leagues. When will you start that?

Yeah, so my first paycheck comes in December 15th, but unfortunately it's a drastic difference in salary and earnings compared to a player. Sure. What will you make as a minor league coach? Yeah, entry-level development coach, I'll make $40,000 this year, but they pay for my housing during the season. Do you have any debt, Brandon? $60,000.

Yeah. So right now, um, like I said, I dove in with you guys. Um, I have, I kind of was keeping up with the Joneses throughout my career, like I said, and, uh, I have, uh,

Tesla Model Y that has about an outstanding balance of $42,000. I'm currently listing that on Facebook Marketplace and AutoTrader trying to sell it. So I'm underwater there because the value is only about $37,000, $38,000. And then I have a house, which is this is the biggest thing why I'm calling. The house...

uh, was built in 2021 with $60,000 in earnest money down. After my engagement failed, I went to the builder and asked for the earnest money back. They said no. So I had no choice but to move in. Um, and the mortgage is $3,760 a month, uh, three and a half percent interest rate. Uh, and then utilities is usually about,

uh the total is that is that all um is that all your debt is the car in the house car in the car in the house and i have like two thousand dollars in credit cards but i pay my credit cards off okay every month zero i've never been late with the payment so you've never been late but you have two thousand dollars on it so you're going to be paying it in full at the end of december yeah exactly but your mortgage is too much is that what you're getting at too

Exactly. So like I'm in a situation where it wasn't when I was a player. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And your life has changed. So your living situation will probably change too. Have you, where will you go for, well, I guess you don't want to say the city, which is totally fine. Yeah. So what I would do, Brandon, honestly, if I were you, number one, you asked about the shame and the guilt earlier in the show. Here's the hard thing about money is I could tell you right now, Brandon, like,

I'm a mom and I'm killing it as a mom this season of life. But I don't have a number to that. Ken could be like, my husband game is out the roof. I'm the best husband ever in the world. There's no number to that. Not saying that. What's sad is that our money and what's hard is it has a number. There's a number that follows us around. So as much as, which is very true, that your present and your future, Brandon, can be 100% different. The way you're looking at money and even the stuff you're diving into content-wise is going to help that mindset shift.

The thing that sucks is like your numbers follow you, right? And I think that it's that reminder, not for it to be shameful, but to say, hey, I don't ever want to go back there again. And so let me just encourage you, Brandon. You're doing all the right things. You're selling the car. You've got a new job coming up.

I would get rid of the credit card. I'd go all the way in on this plan and just see. And I'd sell the house if you're moving somewhere else for this organization. Yeah, because you're going to be, I mean, right, training, I don't know much about baseball, but you're going to be gone a lot of the season anyways. So, Brenda, I would rent somewhere. I would rent a cheap one-bedroom somewhere. You're going to be living somewhere else for months out of the year that they're going to be paying for, which is amazing. So take advantage of that.

And yeah, I would sell this house. Again, this house was a dream when your life looked different. You were a baseball player. There was a girl in the picture and your life doesn't look that way. And so as Dr. John Deloney talks about, what's our reality? What is the reality? And grieve what has been lost because that is sad. The career change and a relationship change

But where you are now, you have to focus on this reality. And this reality is that this house, it's too much for you. It's too much. And it's become a burden. So I'd sell it. Yeah, I absolutely agree. And hey, you're restarting. You've been through so many injuries. You can do this. This is The Ramsey Show.

Merry Christmas, everybody, from The Ramsey Show. It's that time of year. I'm like, why haven't I said that already? I know. Someone said it earlier on the show in the week when I was hosting, and they said they answered the phone, Merry Christmas. And I was like, thank you. Yeah.

The raspy voice you've come to know and love is Rachel Cruz. We're not sure what's going on. She's working on it. She's got the lozenges working during the break. She's not sick. I have no fever. No, no mask. No, she's doing great. I'm doing good. But you may not recognize her voice. But that's Rachel.

And I feel like I'm a little raspy, so we don't know what's going on. But I'm Ken Coleman. She's Rachel Cruz. This is the Rabies Show. We're here to help you win. We had a call earlier this week. I think I was on with John, and we were talking about someone wanted to cash out their 529 that their grandmother gave them. Oh, okay. But she wasn't doing it for school purposes, and so I was telling her not to cash out her 529 because you'd be hit with...

income tax, 10% penalty. And I was like, but you can roll it over to a Roth IRA. Yeah. Because it's been open for more than 15 years. And she was like, what? I didn't know that was possible. And I was like, eh, eh.

The Biden administration. I got so excited. Wow. And my voice. Just cracked. Went out. Gone. And I told Winston that night, who knew I was so excited about 529s going over to Roth IRAs. Well, don't get too excitable on the calls today because I feel like your voice is working hard here. I know. I need to like. So here we go. Time for question of the day brought to you by our great friends at Neighborly. Ramsey Show question of the day, of course, always brought to you by Neighborly at the Hub for Home Services. Soon you're going to have a lot of family over.

That's going to make some people start to daydream. But you probably won't have a lot of help preparing for them or cleaning up afterward. You need Molly Maids. Go to neighborly.com slash Ramsey to find and schedule a locally owned Molly Maid. By the way, who doesn't enjoy Molly Maid? You know, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find somebody.

Today's question comes from Michaela in New Jersey. My husband and I don't agree with... Oh, no, Ken. I got you. My husband and I don't agree on money. I'm currently pregnant, and I want to be a stay-at-home wife with our son, and my husband wants me to be out in the workforce. Ouch. We can't come to agreement, and I need to know...

What I should do. Wow. Okay. I'm so glad. Sorry. No, it's okay. I'm glad you're here on this one because this is not a work question. This is a marriage question. Yes. You know, disguised as a work question. So they don't agree on money, Rachel.

Now she's preggers, right? And naturally wants to be a stay-at-home wife. But the husband is probably freaking out. I'm speaking on behalf of all men. We start to get controlling because we really want to provide. And he's nervous about the money. They already don't agree about money. We don't know why, but we've already got tension there.

And now she's like, I want to come home and be with the baby. And he's like, no. And she's saying, we can't come to agreement. What should we do? Yeah. And that's one of the problems, Ken, that we see a lot when you don't agree on money with your spouse. It's usually not always just about the money. It's usually because there's a value system difference. Right. And that's like the core, right? It's not just, oh, credit card, not. You start to really dig into these issues and you realize, well, we have different values and it's coming out as money issues now.

And that's what I'm interested in this is I'm like, there's probably a values difference. And I have, it's funny, I have different friends in our lives. And some of the guys will say, no, my wife is, she's so smart. She's capable. She used to work and bring in great money. She can. And if the kids are in school all day, why doesn't she? And then I have other friends that are down the other side where they're like, no, I'd rather her be home.

Because everything's taken care of at home. I can go make the money. It's just so funny to hear these two different sides. I always lean the first way. You do. I'm being honest. I'm going to be transparent. With Stacey, you're like, yeah. Stacey's got a master's degree. She's made six figures before. And she's doing some part-time stuff now. But we've got three teenagers. It's expensive. Got to buy two cars. My default.

is always that way. And I'm always the guy, because she'll bring up, well, there's so much going on. And I agree. She is the CEO. Sure, sure. But I go, I'll help with laundry. Yeah, I'll tag team that stuff so that we can tag team. First of all, dinner's never on the table anyway. God love you, Stacey. That's just not how we roll. She's so funny. I'm okay with that. Totally. It's not a problem. You know that. I'm not a caveman, you know what I mean? Or not out of the 1950s sitcoms.

But I understand that. I tend to go that way too because I'm always thinking, let's max out our possibilities. Right, right. And that comes from, and the reason I'm owning this is because I believe it comes from my own scarcity. Yes, yes, totally. Do you agree? Yeah, I can totally see that. And that's my thing too is,

Or the value of not being home full-time, right? I'm not saying that you feel that with Stacey, but some people could say... Well, that value is unquestioned. Yeah, right, right, right. No, I know that's not you. I know that's not you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I know, but you're right. You're making a very good point. But I'm just wondering about Michaela and her husband, like, if his value is like, no, let's... It is a scarcity mentality, possibly, like what you were saying, Ken. And...

let's bring in as much as we possibly can because why not and hers is no I want to pull back and be with the kids so again for me what do you do how do you get on the same page with that I'd get some counseling there's a lot to the heart of where we disagree on money and to your point why we disagree on money when we get to the bottom of that yep these other decisions take care of themselves yes yes exactly so it's really tough I hate to hear that

that, especially with a baby on the way. Oh, I know. Oh, it was motherly instincts. Kicking triple eight, eight to five, five, two to five. Kyle is joining us now in Orlando, Florida. Kyle, how can we help? Hey, how are you guys doing? Uh, Karen and Rachel, um, love the show. Been listening for the last couple of months. And, uh, two weeks ago, uh, Dr. Maloney said something that kind of like triggered me. It's been making me think for the last two weeks. Uh, it's been trying to call in. Um, uh,

I got an inheritance from my father passing away. I'm 27. He passed away when I was 20. So kind of saved that money. My grandmother passed away last year, so got an inheritance from her as well and kind of been accumulating this money. I bought a house and...

And I still have in my bank account, 90,000 cash liquid in my savings account and 125,000 in my brokerage account that me and my girlfriend, we do discuss going on trips and going away and what, what to spend money on and what, what things that we need and what we can kind of hold on for. And I realized something that Dave Maloney said that I'm almost like afraid to spend money. I,

I have like a decent amount of a nest egg over 200,000 and own a house can make the payments. And I'm almost like nervous spending money. And if, even if it's like a two or $3,000 trip, I'm like, well, how am I going to pay for this? Even though I'm sitting here with a decent amount. So I wanted to call in, um, kind of get some insight on like, how do you kind of deal with those thoughts? Kyle, are you on a monthly budget? I am. Yeah. So everything's paid for. A mortgage is 1500. Um,

I do use credit. I know it's a big thing. No, I mean like a budget, meaning you have your income for the month, all of your expenses from cable subscriptions, insurance, food, restaurants, groceries. You have it all listed out before the month begins. You know exactly what you're going to spend money on on every single category. Usually the answer is no. I'm very impressed if that is true. You really are on that detailed of a budget every month.

If I interviewed people that know you, would they say you're tightwad? Food tends to move around. That one tends to move around, the gas and the food. Oh, okay. But definitely the main stuff you want to get, like the money. Are you a tightwad? Yeah.

Kyle, real quick. Are you a tightwad? Would people say you're tight, you're uptight about money? Super frugal? Yes. The reason I'm asking that, Rachel, I think you wrote a book called Know Yourself, Know Your Money, and I think it's really wise. It's got to be from his past, yes? Yeah, I mean, your childhood can dictate a lot of this. How did you grow up, Kyle, with money?

Um, so I grew up with divorced parents. Um, so my dad was an ex cop, so he was based on a pension. So he did have a very strict budget. Yeah. Um, and I think I got a lot of that from him. Um, just kind of knowing where every dollar is going to go. Yeah. Um, going out. So, uh, Cal, do you have our every dollar app by chance? No, I don't use the every dollar. Okay. Okay. Um, if you hold on the line, Austin's going to pick up cause I want to give you every dollar premium, which will connect to your bank. Um,

And this is a budgeting app. So what I'm why I'm saying that Kyle is because you with money,

You always want to be doing three things. Giving, saving, and spending. All three things. And when one of those is deficient, you don't get the full freedom of what money has. And one of yours, which is spending, not mine, yours, is deficient, Kyle. And so what a detailed budget like EveryDollar, I want you to do it. It's going to help give you permission to spend. And Kyle, I want you to save every month towards a $3,000 vacation. And when the money hits $3,000,

When you plan it and you have that $3,000, go on the vacation. You almost have to force yourself to spend. But a budget will give you the guardrails and the guidance where it's not questioning, oh gosh, is this okay? It's permission. It's telling you it is okay. So hold on the line. Every dollar premium for you, Kyle. Thanks for the call, Kyle. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me in studio this hour, and we're here for you. We want to help you win with your money. We want to help you win with your money.

We want to help you win in your professional life as well as in your relationship life. Those three areas are always tied together. We want to help you win in all those areas. If you're not winning in one of them, it's going to affect the other. So we're here to take your calls. We'd love to coach you and cheer you on 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Okay, Baltimore, Maryland is where we're going next, and that's Brittany. Brittany, how can we help?

Hi, hi, Kim. Hi, Rachel. Thanks for taking the call. Rachel, I hope you feel better, dear. Thank you so much, Brittany. Of course. So I honestly just need quite a little bit of insight here. I am trying to figure out ways to either make more money and save more money. I barely make $30,000 a year. And after...

pretty much all of my bills. I have about 10 bucks left in my name. What are you doing? What's your job? I am a medical secretary for a hospital. Okay.

And let me ask you this. What is just, I mean, in your head right now, top of the mind here, what's up the ladder look like for you? If I could just magically wave the pencil around and we bumped you up based on some skills, some experience, what would that look like? And then what would the financial payoff be? What would the new salary be? Well, targeted right now, at least a good maybe $70,000.

I'm not too greedy. I honestly just want to feel like I'm not drowning. I actually took out a loan against my 403B to take some IT software testing classes. Okay. And I'm actually finishing those up this month, but still, you know, have to put myself out there and look for a job, which could also take months as well. Well, hold on a second.

So the mindset there has to be you're already identifying companies and positions that this certification will prepare you for, in other words, qualify you for, and you're starting to make connections now. So you have to have the mindset that I'm shaking the tree to see what opportunities could be there and maybe waiting on me. Does this program have a placement? No.

program with it where they help you get placed? They do not. They kind of just basically help with your resume and LinkedIn profile, in which I am currently in the internship, but haven't finished it yet, although I have already started putting my resume out there just to kind of get the ball rolling. What technology work will you be qualified to do day one?

Is it programming? Is it code? It is actually software testing, quality assurance engineering. Okay. And is that where you said a minute ago, I didn't understand you and that's my fault. You were talking about a $70,000 salary. Is that what you've identified as a potential option coming out of this? Yes. Okay, great. So I want to turn you over to Rachel on the budgeting side of things because I don't want you to wait, okay? No.

to start getting your money. And by the way, if you can work two or three extra jobs right now for some additional income, that's going to help what Rachel's going to coach you through. I just want to push you into that. You need to take the bull by the horns here and get after it. So I want you to connect. I'm going to give you a book called The Proximity Principle. That's my gift when we're done here so that you're connecting with people and it's going to walk you through tactically and practically how you begin to make connections so that opportunity is coming your way because that's going to be huge for you. But

income alone isn't going to fix this problem, Rachel. No, it's definitely going to have to be so much of a mindset shift, Brittany, for you because

Because even talking to you, you're so kind and sweet. Oh, thank you. But there's a part, though, that I'm like, yes. As Ken was saying, grab the bull by the horns. There's kind of that aggression, too, that I want in you that I'm sure is there. What's your family dynamic? Are you married? Do you have kids? Oh.

I am single, no children. I live in a one-bedroom apartment. And honestly, I was thinking about moving in with my dad for maybe like two months or a year just to kind of save up some money because I could have barely made $30,000. Yeah. How old are you, Brittany?

34. Okay. And what's your debt? What's your car payment, credit cards, all of that? So I have about $4,500 in credit cards. Like I said, I took out a loan for my 403B, which is only maybe at like $2,100 right now. But probably the second part of my advice meeting is that I actually did something really

Really, now that I know is stupid, last year I was going through a hard time and actually kind of...

And long story short, got taken advantage of by a friend. And it's something I know I shouldn't have done. I put my name down so that she could get an apartment. I basically wanted her an apartment in my name because she was having trouble with her own kids. And I was going through my own heartbreaks and things like that. I was feeling really vulnerable. But long story short, she did not pay any of the rent. No, no. And it racked up about...

Yeah, I've ranked up about $11,000 in debt in my name now. Okay. And is the $11,000, that's separate than the 4,500 credit card and 2,100? Correct. Okay, perfect. How much do you owe on your car? I don't. My car is paid off. Okay, that's great. Great news. Okay. So here's the good news. Okay.

The good news is, Brittany, there's a lot of upside to your income. There, right now, in this time between now with this career you have and hopefully going forward, which you're getting your training and all of that, which is great, between now and then, if I were you, Brittany, I would...

you could move in with your dad if you want. There's a part of me that I'm like, you're an adult. You can do this, right? You can do this. There's a sense of dignity there that I think is really, which I think is really important, but I think it's going to be an uncomfortable season.

Meaning the amount of hours that I would encourage you to work, Brittany, because there's not much expenses to cut. You're living on $30,000. And so, I mean, there's nothing to really cut there, right? So the income side, though, to me is huge. I'm like, even if you took...

four nights a week, Brittany, and said, I'm going to drive Uber, you know, three of those nights, I'm going to do Instacart to like, like you, you do some extra side hustle work, which actually can bring in a good bit. I mean, some people are seeing two, $3,000 on side hustles. So even bringing that stuff in, you're going to be able to pay, I would, I would pay off your debt smallest to largest. So I'd pay off that 403B loan ASAP. And

Get that out of the way. And then the $4,500 credit card debt, I would cut up your credit cards today. I would force yourself to live on what you can. And we talk about the four walls that are really important, Brittany, your food, your shelter, utilities, and transportation. And I know I said earlier as I was talking with you that I wouldn't want to move in with your dad. But listen, if there's a season that you're like for six months...

For rent, all of it. Like if I can cut some stuff because even my four walls are tight, you know, maybe that is an option. What is your rent? My rent is $1,300. Could you get out of that how quickly? Is that a month to month or you have to finish out a lease? I have to finish out a lease that is up in June, the 1st of June. Okay, so that's six more months. Yeah, I'm with Rachel on this one. I'm going to say six months from now, if you get after it, I don't think you're going to have to move.

I think this is about you going, what must be true for me to make an additional $300 to $500 a week?

Now, if you break it down like that, it's not as intimidating. But if you go, okay, what do I have to do? And if I get out, like you can knock that $2,100 loan out very quickly. Next on the list is the $4,500 in credit cards. And honestly, the stupid tax of the $11,000 debt, that's the biggest one. You can actually do this. You've doubled your income over the next six months to eight months on the technology side of things.

You start networking and connecting like your life depends on it, you're going to get a good job. And now it's about managing the mistakes that you've made. Go, you know what? I'm not an idiot. I've made a mistake or two or three. Big deal. And Brittany, any savings you have too, I would throw at this debt to get this moving. I think for you, having some confidence and some quick wins for you, Brittany, is a big deal.

is so it's possible and it's needed for you because once you're out of this debt and you have a fully funded emergency fund you're a whole new person like there's a level of confidence that you're gonna have in yourself knowing that you can do this hard stuff and you're gonna learn from those mistakes not going back into credit card debt not being taken advantage of from a quote-unquote friend that screwed you over like all of these things Brittany are lessons to learn and

and do something different the next time, which you will. So these numbers are great. I think working extra is going to be your best bet. Yeah, absolutely. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back.

I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I've taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills...

I'm going to eat next week. Yeah, in the middle of all that grief. Like it's just, it is, it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say, I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza to get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by my colleague and friend, Rachel Cruz. Merry Christmas to you. Hope you are not stressing out over all the things.

around Christmas, and it's become about getting, getting, getting, and then the stresses around giving the thing that everybody wants to get. Just remember around this time that it is ultimately about giving and make sure that you don't lose yourself in the music or the moment, as Eminem said once famously. Did you like how I just transitioned right into a little rap from Eminem? Just Eminem. Ken Coleman and Eminem. He would say, lose yourself. He'd say, go the eight mile. Don't lose yourself. Nice. Good reference there.

Good reference. Slim Shady. Slim Shady. I used to be called Slim Shady. No, I didn't. But I'll tell you a name. You're just smoking cigarettes and listening to Eminem, apparently. I know. I know. We're going off the range. A little fun thing. I want to find out next segment.

what one of your favorite Christmas movies is. And maybe we'll do an object lesson out of it. Okay. I'm taking over. I did on the last, on the Rachel Cruz show, the Christmas episode that comes out, we did my top five favorite Christmas movies and the money lessons to learn from them. Oh, this is what I want to do. That's even better. You took my horrible idea and you went, that's what I want to review. And you're going to love them. I can't. Actually, it's going to be really great. So you're going to have to hang around. Next segment? Next hour? Next hour. So you got to hang around.

that. All right, let's go to Izzy. By the way, I always, I think my name's very boring. James likes to have fun with it, with the puns. Like you were very entertaining. He does those things. But what if my name was Izzy? I think I would be much cooler. Izzy is cool. And Izzy is in Boston. Izzy, how can we help you? Hi guys. Thank you for taking my call. I love your name. Can I tell you that? Love your name. Thank you very much, Ben. I like yours. Thank you. I appreciate that. So

My question is, so I've obtained a bachelor's degree in biology this past summer, and my next step is to try to get into PA school and become an emergency medicine PA. But what I would like some advice with would be, is it okay to take out loans for PA school? And if not, what advice do you have for

for me to pursue this career path and take on as little bit as possible. Okay, so walk me through what you think the path looks like, maybe the next couple steps or years, and let's attach some money to that, meaning what it would cost for the education necessary and then maybe what you're making. Can you kind of fill me in on that? I think I can answer the question a little better.

Yeah, of course. So right now I'm on baby step two and I have about $1,400 in credit card debt and in student loans I have about $25,000. Okay. And that's it? What?

Yeah, that's it. I've paid off. My car is paid off, but I don't have any other sort of debt. Okay, great. But what the next steps look like, right now I'm searching for schools, both within Massachusetts but also outside. And what will happen is I would start applying to programs in April.

Now, the thing is, is that most PA programs do not allow you to work while you're in school because it's so rigorous. But also, I'm in the most competitive state, and also one of the most expensive programs is in Boston. But if I were to move out of state, I would have to take on living expenses. But right now, I live with my mother, and I only pay the

the utility bills, which is about $500 to $600 a month. So what will the PA program cost you then in Massachusetts? In Massachusetts right now, the programs that I'm looking at, it ranges from $115,000 to $130,000. And what's the path, what's the salary coming right out of PA school?

Coming right out of PA school, especially if I want to work in emergency medicine, which is what I do right now. I'm a nursing assistant in the emergency room. So fresh out of PA school, I would probably, and if I move to Mass, you know, the salary varies from where you live in the state, but I think I'd want to work in Mass. It would be about $115,000 to $120,000. And what are you making right now?

in that role? Right now, that's, that's a, that's a thing. So in the emergency room, you do not get paid much as a nursing assistant. Um, I make about $15 an hour base pay. Um, so this past summer, what I've done, I love landscaping. So what I did is I opened up my little gig and, um, I was able to make pretty good money. I'd pay off a good chunk of my debt. Um, but,

I can't do that in the winter, so I'll continue working. All right, let me ask you this. I love your hustle, by the way. Love it. All right, I have one more question, and I'm sure Rachel and I are going to weigh in here. Yep. Based on your current degree that you just got, what's the best paying gig you can get with that biology degree? Yeah, so I had a feeling that you guys would ask me this question. The thing is that I haven't thought much about

after I obtained my biology degree because my plan was always to go straight to school sure and then my cousin you know he got me into listening to you guys and you know I just I've always seen my mother kind of live paycheck to paycheck and I just I don't want that and we don't want that either yeah so you got to answer the question for me so you haven't looked at it really look okay yeah which is totally fair yeah totally 2022 Lizzie

I'm 24. 24. Here's what I want you to think about, Izzy. I want you to think about, let's split the difference between the $115,000 to $130,000 is what it's going to cost you for a student loan. Okay. Let's just say it's $120,000 for conversation. I want you, you don't have to do it right now, but I want you to reflect sometime today on how long it would take you to pay that back.

And I want you to also think about if I told you to pay cash, which is what I want you to do, how long would it take you to save up? Could you save up 30 grand a year? Well, at 30 grand a year, it's four years to be able to pay cash. Yes? Yes. Or cash flow your way through it.

So the question is, live with your mom. You know, the cash option is best for you. You do not want that stress because even at making 115 coming out of this degree after tax, I want you to run the numbers. What is your after tax situation? And I want you to do it's almost like a pre budget. Yeah. And I think you're going to go, oh, my gosh, I don't want to sign up for that. I'd rather be patient.

And could I save $30,000 a year, okay, which gets me through, gets me to four years of cash, or can I cash flow? And if it's going to cost me X amount per year, I'd love to know what that number is per year, okay? And then can I live with my mom? And I know PA school is hard, and they don't encourage working, but what is the other option, being miserable and being in debt? Yeah, Izzy, I...

I don't know why. It's like the people pleaser in me sometimes that I'm always like, I know our advice is not what you want to hear. So I always hesitate to be like, I'm sorry, Izzy, what you're going to hear, you're going to think, oh my gosh, Izzy, six months ago before her cousin told her to listen to Ramsey. But I'm so glad we got you because our advice is going to be different.

normal would just say, oh, of course you've got to go into debt for PA school. And of course you need to go right now. You just finished your undergrad. Of course, that's the next step. I mean, it's exactly what your mindset was. And Izzy, I can't tell you how many calls we take on

on the show of people that have debt, of people that took on this amount of debt, and the stories of even, you know, they get married, they meet someone, get married, have a baby, something is wrong, you know, and they want to stay home because of, I mean, like health stuff. I mean, life happens. And when you take on debt, you're taking on risk. So what we want to do is eliminate risk from your life because that gives you peace and it actually gives you money at the end of the day. And so the most peaceful way

wisest route, Izzy, and this is what I would do if I were you, I would say, hey, I'm going to put all this on pause for three years, which means you'll be 27. We talk to 35-year-olds that want to go back to school, right? So I'm like, you're early in the game. You have the time. You have the time.

And to say, I'm going to go try to find, you're smart, obviously. So I'm going to go try to find a job making 60. And I don't, and honestly, I don't care what it is. It may not be in the medical field. We're going to just go make it because Izzy, listen, and if you stay with living with your mom, I'm okay with that because you're going to pay off the 26, the 26,400 that you owe your credit card debt and your student loans. You can pay that off in the first year.

Keep working that job for two years. Save and save and save. You'll have enough to cash flow that first year of PA school. Do your landscaping stuff in the summer. You can make a killing on that and just stockpile cash. And when you go through PA school, you will be writing checks. When you get out of PA school, you're going to make $120,000 and it's all yours, Izzy. And you're starting that off at

at 27 years old is unbelievable. Unbelievable. That's going to be the wisest piece of Ralph for you, Izzy. You're awesome. I'm so glad you called. Thank you, Izzy. We believe in you. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your money life, your work life, and your relationship life. The phone number to jump in on the conversation is 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225.

5-2-2-5. I'm Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, and I'm joined by my good friend, Ramsey Personality, Rachel Cruz. We're both a little raspy today. We don't know why. We haven't been yelling at our kids, I promise. But we've got the throat coat going. I know. Are you raspy? You're not. You don't think I am? I'm about to start coughing.

You're really struggling. I'm good. So if her voice falters, I just jump in until she's ready again. It's just how it works. It's just the weather. It's the weather. But anyway, we're excited to coach you up. We want to help you win. Jump in. 888-825-5225. Let's go to Mobile, Alabama. Chase is joining us on the line. Chase, how can we help?

Well, Dave, it's a pleasure to talk to you, Ken. I'm a big fan. Rachel, thank you for taking my call. You bet. Thank you for calling. What's going on? I'm 25, and I'm trying to get some advice on how I have a adult and proper conversation with my parents about their financial situation.

uh situation i planned on getting the financial piece of bursary for christmas and was hoping that i was able to talk them into just checking it out and giving it a shot because i felt like if they at least gave it a shot that they would be hooked but i wanted to do this right with good intentions of love and not make it feel like it was just their kid trying to get involved in their finances have you ever talked to them about their finances before

It's a delicate topic. Me and my dad talk about finance quite a bit. We get along with it, but my mom and my dad are not on the same page. They haven't been for a long time. They have separate finances, separate bank accounts. They keep everything separate. I was kind of on the fence whether to do it or not, and last night they kind of got the news that my sister's transmission on her car is about to go out, and they don't have an emergency fund.

So I felt kind of bad telling him that and seeing their faces when they got that news. Is your dad, is he more in line with you on what they should be doing? Yeah, he is the one who actually introduced me to y'all when I was a little bit younger as kids.

As Dave would say, he's Dave-ish. He's been in it in the past, but he never stuck to it. And what's your mom's like, Chase? Your mom, what's her status? I think she feels like it's a little controlling. And I understood it when I was a little younger because I was so worried about, you know, what was...

you know what was going to be today i wasn't worried about next year five years down the line 10 years down the line yeah and i'm definitely more coming around to that but i feel like she's more worried about tomorrow and the end of the week yeah here's the big problem the problem is they both have different accounts and different philosophies so you gifting them fpu

I mean, I think it's a great thing, but they've got some serious, serious marital issues around money that I'm not sure that you can stick your nose in. And even if you could or did, it would make a difference. So, Rachel, what do you think? Here's what I would say. If you were my friend and we were hanging out, I would say one thing I've learned in life, and I can save you thousands of dollars of therapy for this one, you can't control people.

You can't. And as much as you, which is what I've done of like a certain person in my life, I can conjure up some conversation

And I pray the whole way there. And I think this is going to be the thing. I'm going to say the thing and the light bulb's going to go off and they're going to turn and it's going to be heroic and great. And I don't need the credit because their life is good. Like, like I conjure up this whole thing that if I just say the right thing and have the right conversation, I can help them see X, Y, and Z. And Chase, I've had to let that go completely because is your heart there to help them? Absolutely. But you can't control what they're going to do. And here's another thing, Chase, they're not asking. Yeah.

They're not coming to Chase and saying, gosh, Chase, I feel like you're just not stressed with money. What are you doing? Will you show us? So what you're doing is a little bit, which I'm fine with you gifting them FPU. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. But I think your expectations have to be very low. And the role that you play, Chase, is a hey, I'm giving you this gift because it's helped me. I'm talking as you, Chase, a

And I've loved it. And if you guys want to try it out, awesome. Here it is. And you wipe off your hands and you walk away because it's,

You can't. That's not the role that you play in life for them. And I hate to say it. I feel like that sounds like, oh, we're going to just turn our backs or something. And it's not that. It's just the reality of the relationship. So that's what I would say, Chase. Go ahead and gift them FPU. I think that's a really kind thing. And you can say from your experience how it's helped you. But besides that, there's nothing that you're going to say, or I wouldn't put that pressure on you, that this thing you're going to say is going to change them.

and or they're not asking for your advice and they're grownups. Now, I would say this, and I think Rachel's absolutely right. She is 100% right. But I would have at least one man-to-man with my dad because you guys seem to be in alignment. It's like he agrees with it philosophically. I think his dad knows, though. He does. And he's living with the mom. I know, but I'd take one shot if this were me and my dad, I would go, Dad,

I want to support you. I can't do anything about this. You are going to have to lead, Mom. You are going to have to do something about this. And I hate that you're in this situation. I'll support you however, but I'm going to tell you, Dad, I think this has gone on too long. You guys need to get on the same page. And I would challenge my dad.

But just once, just once, I'd go, Dad, this is on you, man. I know, but he's not asking. Like, that's my thing. Well, they talk about money. I think they are talking about money. Yeah, but in conversations. How is he coming to you with money, Chase? Well, I mean, he's, you know, we're very into each other. You know, he's making sure that I'm okay with, you know, my finances. And I'm more worried about...

About him, yeah. That's what I'm hearing. And then that's up to him. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And that is not... Yeah. And I would say, Chase, that's just not your arena to play in. And here's another thing.

thing I and I would not triangle and it's sounding like a triangle situation with your dad and you triangling against your mom and you don't want to be in that dynamic either so oh Chase your heart is so good and your intentions are so good and I get it and like Ken said maybe there's one good run at it of just like dad I can't sleep at night unless I say this for my own conscious like here it is

And then Chase, I wouldn't. And if your dad brings up conversations with your mom to you, I would draw a boundary there too and say, dad, not my problem. I'm sorry. I'm not the one to talk to you about. And I get y'all are talking money and all of that, but I would just be really careful. I just think as grown children, those boundaries, I just think that those conversations are really important because they can get tangled really quick. And I don't want responsibility put on you, Chase, or you're feeling a level of responsibility that

is not yours to carry. So I don't know if I'm being too harsh on that or too strict, but... No, I think there's a lot of wisdom there. And I...

I don't know if the man-up conversation is a good idea now that you've made me almost rethink it. But what I mean is, here's what I think is happening. I think his dad's coming to him, and he's kind of treating him like the counselor. He needs to go to a real counselor. And he's coming to the son because he's like, well, my son did this, and I don't have the cojones to do it myself. And there's a natural connection there, yeah. And I think his dad's terrified of his mom. Oh, boy. That's probably a good truth. But, you know, I don't know.

It's tough. Good heart, Chase. You got a good heart. Yeah, you're a good man. This is The Ramsey Show.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey good folks, the back-to-school madness is upon us. It's hitting us right now. We got travel and work and all these forms to fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on. My family's schedule is so packed and we haven't even begun talking about things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church and home projects. And those are the things that make our life even worth living.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by Rachel Cruz. And we're here for you this hour. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. Taking your questions about money, about your work and income. I need to get more income. Side hustle, starting something. Can I make a move during the baby steps? Anything related to that, we would love to help you. 888-825-5225. So it is the season.

I don't know if anybody talks that way anymore, but it certainly works. Oh, tis the season. Tis the season. Okay. I was afraid you were going to roll your eyes and go, there's old man Ken again. Just the toll-free call. But, yeah, that's right. Never again. By the way, people were on Instagram going, yeah, Ken, I'll call the toll-free number from my home phone. I was like, okay, all right, point made. But I love Christmas, and as I look about the

lobby here at Ramsey Solutions. We've got it all decorated. I've got trees in my house. I love the Christmas music. So you have a fun little Christmas money lesson. We're going to play a game. We just made this up on the spot. I love this. Go ahead. I'm going to...

say a money lesson explain a money lesson and ken is going to try to guess the christmas movie that that money lesson is from and all of you on youtube play along i'm going to number them one through six okay and try to put your guesses in as well before before okay so here we go oh i gotta get these are going to be kind of short so i hope they're going to be good here we go number one don't spend your work christmas bonus on a pool until you actually have the money

Christmas Vacation, the greatest Christmas movie of all time. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Number two. Don't steal a credit card and try to check into a hotel. Home Alone. Ding, ding, ding. Home Alone 2. What's that? Lost in New York. Home Alone 2. You know what? James got me on a technicality. I missed that one. He's a stickler, folks. He's a stickler. Number three. This may be a little tough. I'm trying to just paint. The lesson is...

Even if there is no Christmas presents, a town can come together and still have happiness and joy. Boy, I'm going to go with my instinct here. If I'm wrong, James is waiting. I'm going to say it's a wonderful life. No, that's a good one to have a money lesson though. How the Grinch Stole Christmas. Good job, James. See, I'll be honest with you. Don't know that I've seen that movie, folks. Okay, the next one, people would debate if it is a Christmas movie. I'm going to say it is. I think you've given me the clue.

yeah yeah that's a clue i guess yeah um if you switch houses and do vrbo make sure it's what you expect do your research come on kenneth think i'm gonna i'm gonna give ken about this may be stacy coleman's favorite romantic movie i'm gonna go with the holiday yeah ding ding ding wow i can't believe my wife is gonna be very proud of you folks well done um okay number five this one's gonna be kind of hard to explain let me see if i can do it um

If there's a sign in the mall that says for someone special and you buy it, they may not want or need the gift. Does James have it? Okay, James has it. Hold on. Do you really? I don't have anything. I know, it's kind of broad. Audience even knows. She knows. She knows. Is that Elf?

Is it Elf? I was going to say that or Paul Blart Mall Cop. I wasn't sure which one it was going to be. Well done. Well done. Okay. Thank you for the clue from the audience. Number six. I would not categorize as a family-friendly movie. Oh, boy. Wouldn't let my kids watch this one. It's one of Winston-Ice favorites, though. We think it's so funny. If you lie to... Here's the last one. Don't lie to your family...

about not visiting them on vacation and saying that you're going to go on vacation. This is going to be a hot take, an unpopular take, but it has now become my favorite Christmas movie. It has gone above National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation. It is Four Christmases. Four Christmases. I am a Vince Vaughn fan. Ken! And I got to do a sound effect. I'm probably going to get in trouble for this, but I got to do it. Fa-da-da!

That's where they're going to inoculate the kids in Burma. And he makes up Burmese in the bedroom while they're packing. It cracks me up. It is the funniest movie. That and one last one. Okay. Swaddle that baby. Baby.

Oh, the Christmas service is just too much. And then Graham Graham, but I'm going to stop there. Graham Graham, Betty White. No, that's not Betty White. No, it's not Betty White. Oh my gosh, you're right. Sorry. Yeah. Nope. It's true though, but you know, they make a very good point. You can't spell lies without family. I mean, four Christmases, if you've not seen it, adults. I think it is an instant classic. It is so funny. Yeah, we watch it every night. But it's a wonderful life.

is one of my favorite movies and Mr. Bailey I didn't even I didn't think of that one to do a money but that's a great money and I'll throw it well but see this is a part of the newest episode of the Rachel Cruz show so we're having a little fun with this but you actually do a deep dive on this yes yes yeah we did I mentioned a movie for next year yeah to go along with it's a wonderful life Miracle on 34th Street yes I haven't seen that in years

I know. And these are classics. Now, would you do the black and white version? The original? The original. Okay. Yeah, because it's really sweet. There's great character lessons in that. James, can I also throw another movie out for next year? Yes. I think it's a Christmas movie. I'm pretty sure the booth and the audience. You jumped ahead. Would it kill you to wait? No.

Would it kill you to not interrupt me? I was setting it up. I think Die Hard's a Christmas movie. That's what I think. You think it is? Austin says yes. James says... The collective booth says yes. All dudes, because you're all dudes. All the women, no. It happened at Christmas. It was a Christmas party. It's not a Christmas party. I guess it's like the holiday. People would argue, is it a Christmas movie or not? All right, there you go. A couple of good things. Lots of lessons to learn. God, it's a wonderful life. Now, let me turn this to real money stuff for people. Yes. Yes.

What do you know from the data and you've been coaching people for a long time? What are the biggest causes of Christmas mistakes, money mistakes? What would you say? Obviously overspending. Yeah, for sure. 25% of Americans are still paying for last Christmas. What? Yep. An article came out. Yep. Last week from WalletHub.com.

Yeah, a quarter of Americans. I mean, it's unbelievable that they're still. Do you think that we as Americans spend too much per capita? What I mean by that is per household. Uh,

Like within reason. Your budget's different than everybody else's. My budget's different, right? I think naturally people are overspending. So I did an interview today. You would love this, Ken. They're writing an article comparing 1950s Christmas to today. And what do they see? Well, they're interviewing about today. So I didn't get all the historical facts, but you're a history buff. I feel like you could go back in those days. But we were talking about the expectation of lifestyle in general. Yeah.

From for sure the 50s, even the 80s, average square foot of a home, the cars, everything about it, just our natural baseline of lifestyle is high. And that bleeds over for sure into the Christmas season. And so it is, it's this expectation and it's the buying. And I think too, because this gets me,

It's the stuff you don't plan, right? Like we do a budget and we plan out, hey, here's how much we're going to spend on Christmas. And then, you know, a party comes up. This happened to me last week. And it's a bunch of girls I know. Yeah. And it's a favorite things party. I'm like, well, I want to go. But yeah, I bring two items. I mean, they're 20 bucks each. So it's like 40 bucks. That's 40 bucks that, you know, we didn't plan. Exactly.

I had to run out the other night for Josie. She's like, Dad, tomorrow I've got my secret Santa at school and I got to get this, this, this, and this. And I'm going, what are we talking about? Yeah. Get her an apple. That's what they did in the 50s. I'm kidding. I didn't say that. I wanted to. I know. I wanted to. I remember. You probably don't remember this.

But some of you are old enough to remember when the Tickle Me Elmo first came out. Oh, I do remember it. Yes. People were punching each other. Do you remember those videos? And wrestling. Yes. Like jumping off the third, you know, like a WWE move over this gift that your kid doesn't even know about. I mean, it's wild. I mean, that's what's crazy. And I do miss a little bit of that hectic shopping. I feel like there were always news stories.

The Furby, was it one year? I feel like we had all these toys and you'd watch the news and watch all these crazy people go crazy over a toy. So yeah, I do think it's not being able to plan well because you're trying to do everything and when stuff comes up, you just add on.

and or not having the margin but continuing to live how you want to live. And there's a point that we have to be grownups to say, I just can't do that. And it's hard to say no to ourselves. Oh my goodness. It is tough. I think, and here's the other thing. Look, this whole holiday is supposed to be about

what you give, not what you get. And if we're giving different things, you know, like we could fix the whole thing by changing everything to all you can buy is one ugly Christmas sweater for everybody you know. And then it becomes more about the fun of just that. Right. But we've made it about stuff and I don't know that we're ever going to get it back. But hang in there. Please don't make any crazy money decisions. It's going to be okay. And don't be like those people that Rachel's talking about that are still paying for last year's Christmas.

Oh, that gives me heartburn. Cousin Eddie. Where are the Tums? Where's the eggnog? Fell in a well. Eyes went crust. Kick by a mule. Go back. There it is. Oh, I'd hold off on that. She's got a little lip fungus we haven't identified. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by Rachel Cruz, and we're here to help you win in your money and in your work life.

By the way, if you're enjoying the show, no matter how long you've been listening to the show, one of the things that we would love for you to do, if we're adding value to you in any way, we'd love for you to share the show. Subscribe, leave a great review, share it with a friend. That all helps us get out there. You know how those algorithms work. I don't, but they're out there. And so all of that helps us.

get in front of people who may be struggling, certainly this time of year, as we head into the Christmas season, a little bit strapped financially, maybe heading into the new year and wanting to break free of all that debt and get a good start. We'd love to help. So please let people know, 888-825-5225. Let's stay right here in the back of the woods, if you will. I don't know what I'm saying. In our neck of the woods, there it is.

Nashville. Nashville, Tennessee is where Kate joins us. Kate, how can we help? Hi, Kate. Hello. How are you? You're on with Ken and Rachel. What's going on?

Um, I was recommended to check out the, or to call into the radio show to get some advice about, uh, my husband and my financial situation. Um, it's more on my end. Um, I, you know, moved out on my own two years ago. We just got married a couple months ago and I've just been struggling to find consistent work. Um,

that pays enough to the point where I've been on and off unemployed over the past nine months. And obviously, unemployment brings on debt, and I'm trying to figure out how to work with that while still being unemployed. Okay. So what kind of debt have you accumulated?

I have some credit card and just some medical and other general debt. Okay. And what kind of work would you love to be doing? If we could just make it happen for you today, what would that be and what would that income look like, realistically? Okay.

Um, well, ideally I would say farming. Um, realistically I went through a course for data analytics almost four years ago and have not been able to find a job in that yet. Okay. Can I, can I ask a question? What's causing all the unemployment for you? You said I'm, I'm having a hard time keeping a job. Um,

Some of it has been living on my own due to the rising costs. I've had to look for other jobs just to stay afloat. I recently was diagnosed with a thyroid illness and realized that's part of what's made me be unemployed is I have difficulty getting out of bed in the morning and showing up to work. Okay.

Now, you said that you've kind of moved on from thing to thing. Is that what I took from that answer? Because you were trying to make more money, so you're job hopping? Yes. But you're not hopping from something to something. You're just leaving something, then trying to find something else, sounds like.

Well, I have been moving from one job to the other when I've been able to, but sometimes I've been let go due to the illness and had to find a job from being unemployed. Okay, so let's just hone in what we need to do right now to get some income for you.

Now that you've got the thyroid condition diagnosed, and I'm assuming you're getting some doctor's care on this, and can we presume that you're going to be getting better and that energy issue is going to be taking care of itself? Is that true? That's what I'm hoping for. Okay, so we don't know. So the issue is, would you be better served doing maybe a remote job, work from home, where it's kind of that is the thing they're expecting? Is that a better fit for you?

That's what I've been trying to find for almost four years now. Well, sweetheart, let me just tell you something. I want to say this as kind as I can. You're in Nashville. This is one of the hottest job markets in the country. When you look at states and their states' economies and we look at the general economy, there are a lot of jobs out there.

And if you can't find something, there is something going on with the way you're looking or the way that you are actually applying and getting into the situation. Because you should be able to find something right now with all the online freelance work that's out there where you can make some money. Even being a personal assistant, a virtual assistant, Kate. You know, you could pick up two clients and do that. What's your husband doing? You said you've been married a few months. What's his status?

He is a full-time student. He's about to start his final semester to graduate with a bachelor's in business administration. So he's not working? He works part-time, but very limited part-time because he is a senior. So you guys are broke and barely making it by? Basically. Okay. Yeah, Kate, I think the part of the formula that I think just has to be

The one part you really focus on is this income side, Kate. And like Ken said, there's a lot of jobs that you can do from home. It's either going to have to be that or your husband is going to have to say, hey, I can't go to school right now because my family doesn't have money. My wife is sick and can't work. And I can't, I don't care if it's my, I'm a senior. I have to pay my light bill and my rent and my mortgage. You know what I mean? Like there's a level of adult choices here that are not fun and

but that have to happen to survive in our world today. And I'm not talking about the luxuries of life. I'm talking about you guys got to pay bills. I mean, to keep the lights on and the rent paid. And so he may have to stop school. I mean, he may have to pause, Kate. Like that's how, that's how like urgent I want you guys to feel. Unless you can find something, which I have confidence you can, but it's that urgency. You looking for four years and him staying in school full-time, working part-time,

That doesn't happen. You can't do that. Does that make sense?

I don't know if I can clarify over the four years. I was looking for my specific ideal role. Oh, okay. Gotcha. Which is what? I have been working since then, but it's been the lower income, unable to get decent savings kind of jobs. Okay. Well, but wait a second. You can. Okay. So the ideal job is in farming, and I get that. And I think when you're getting healthy, we want to get you on a path to that. But Rachel's right. Your hubs has got to be working two jobs. He doesn't have a thyroid condition. Okay.

And the degree can, we can get back to that degree. It will be there. He doesn't even need the degree. Honestly, a business degree doesn't guarantee anything. I don't, I don't want to kind of pour salt in a wound here, but Rachel's 100% correct there.

He's working two jobs, maybe three jobs to get you guys in the income where it needs to be to pay off the debt. Weekends, Saturdays, Sundays, full time. He's working nuts up. And I will tell you, you need to be looking at customer service roles until the thyroid thing gets under control. I think it's very hard for you to go to a Walmart or a Target or someplace like that when you've got this physical condition that is obviously sapping your energy and untold other issues. Here's the point. You can be working online, tutoring,

Uh, customer center, uh, customer care. Those jobs are everywhere. Data input. Data input. I mean like anything. Yes. Anything. Okay. Even if you're bringing in 25,000 a year, that's something. Do you know what I'm saying? Like there, there needs to be. It's what the two of you can do. Not, this is not on you. Yeah. This is not on you fully. Yeah. So he needs, so yeah, you both, I think, how old are you guys? I'm 25 and he's 23. Okay. Yeah.

By the way, Kate, one of the questions you need to ask is, will you help me? It's a question that we don't want to ask, right? You know people. You guys, you're young. You've come from a network, a connection to families in the national area. You've just got to go, hey, this is where I'm at. I've got a thyroid condition. It's now diagnosed. I'm getting treatment, but this is where we are. Hubs is in school. We need to make money. We'll do anything.

And you've got to start putting the word out. Do you understand what I'm saying? This is not applying online and just hoping your resume makes it through the matrix. This is you talking to people, posting on social media, go, hey, I'm looking for X amount of hours. This is what I raise your hand out there. Yeah, you got to raise your hand is a great way of saying that. Kate, you got to get after it, which takes humility, right? I'm like, to your point, we hate it's hard to ask for help. Yeah.

But you guys are in that situation where you need it. Because how much is your rent a month, Kate? It's $700, so it's not that much. Okay. It's a lot when you're broke and you guys aren't bringing anything in. Yeah, and then you got food. I mean, yeah, it's all of this. So, yeah, any amount of money, Kate, to get you guys in a stable place. But that's probably going to mean him working Saturdays and Sundays and nights. I'm like, that's...

And bartend. Be a waiter. Like the places that you make some good money to. I hope your husband watches this. Have him watch it too. Hey, Hubs, listen to me. You can come to my neighborhood in Franklin and say, I'll put your lights up, your Christmas lights, outdoor for $200. I'll pay you so fast your head will spin. I don't want to do it. That's right. But there's something to be done right now. That's right. That's right. So this is, we are urgent because we must provide. And then it'll cycle out. Thank you, Kate.

This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life, your money, your work, and your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me. And we're in the Christmas spirit, so Merry Christmas. We had fun. That was a little fun exercise, the game that we played. Oh, earlier, yes, our Christmas movie. I enjoyed that. Christmas movie trivia. Twins, you and James. Yeah. All spot on. Yeah, absolutely. All right, back to the phones we go. Brian is now joining us in Danbury, Connecticut. Brian, how can we help?

Hey all, thanks for taking the call. So my family is expanding, thankfully. We are in the process, we purchased a new home. We're in the process of moving to that home. We're in the fortunate situation where

We didn't have to sell our existing home in order to purchase the new home. And so now we're sort of left with a question of what to do, you know, whether we should sell it, whether we should rent it out. We did buy the home pre-COVID and we bought in an area where we

A lot of New Yorkers have moved too, so our property value has increased, thankfully, because of that. So yeah, that's sort of where we are. We're just wondering what to do with the home. Okay, how much do you owe on that home, the old home? So the mortgage we have on the home outstanding is about $560,000. $560,000, and how much would it sell for? $560,000.

Um, we've been told it could sell around 1.2, 1.3. Amazing. Okay. And how much is the new house? How much of a mortgage did you take out for that? New house, the mortgage is 680. 680. Okay. So if my math serves me correctly, Brian, you could sell your house...

your old house, current house, and pay off the new house, correct? Something like that. That's the dream. Now, why are you chuckling? Why would you not do that? Where did the chuckle come from?

So I guess two things. Number one, we are changing, moving towns, and there's a little bit of emotional attachment, I'll say, to the existing house, like visions of moving back and doing something with the property or something. But also just a question of what's the right investment? Does it make sense to...

hold on to it as a rental or does it make sense to just sell it? How far away are you moving from it? It's about an hour. It's, you know, not too far. And how much do you guys make a year, Brian? My wife and I are both in tech. So we gross around $340 a year. Nice.

Do you want to be a long distance landlord? Because an hour is still like an hour is just at the point of a pain in the you know what. And can I add this, Brian, that and you guys said you have an emotional attachment to the house. Some family is going to move in there with a dog and three kids. Oh, boy. And you're going to be like, oh, speaking of emotions. And you're not going to want to move back into that place. I mean, I mean, honestly, to move back in after three or four other families have lived there. Yeah.

The romanticism of it leaves. I love this. What's the favorite part of the house? Give us an emotional attachment.

I don't know. We're in the Christmas season. The best I can probably describe it is just like a nice, cozy house in a great neighborhood. End of the cold effect. And worth $1.3 million. Yeah, there's that. I know, I know. The other bit, I don't know if it's helpful, is our mortgage. Part of it, I guess, is because we bought pre-COVID and mortgage rate was like 3%.

You know, the mortgage monthly we're paying, you know, with insurance taxes and all that is like $3,300. That doesn't really factor majorly into my thought process because for you guys, do you have any other debt? Do you owe stuff on your cars, credit cards? No. No. No. Okay, Brian, listen, here's where I would say to keep it.

If you call Dan Bryant and you're like, we're making a million a year, I'd say, you know what? You guys live on nothing. Pay off that house. Pay off the other one. Keep it as a rental because it's yours and you own it outright in three years, whatever, whatever, whatever. But this keeps you. I mean, $560,000 on one, $680,000 on the other. It's keeping you guys in debt. And so when debt comes into play...

So there's a lot of this that's just, I don't know, it just adds on to me more stress and the idea of, oh, it's just passive income. The renters will pay. They'll pay them more. Like all of that that people believe about rentals is just not true. There's more of a headache. Now, if it's all paid for and you could take on the risk of something, that's something else. Now, I just had a thought, Rachel. Yeah. And I don't think this changes anything, but I got to ask. Brian?

I mean, Danbury, Connecticut, pretty historic place, as I recall. I've never been there, but pretty historic. I'm guessing pretty high income. Okay. What would the rent? Nice New England towns, that sort of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I actually want to go sometime. But what would you say the rent is, the market? Do you know what the market rent is, what you could get for your house?

Um, we've been told because the market is so constricted right now that we could get around $5,500, $6,000 a month. And what's the mortgage on it? Like $3,300 a month. That's what tax is. It's not changing my opinion. I just wonder if it changes my co-host's opinion on that. That's interesting. You're doubling up now.

Now you still got the pain and it's an hour away. And I have another question. You said the hope is we return. When would that be? When would you return if that was even an option? I mean,

We talk, I know it'd be like, you know, five, 10 year timeline. That sort of time. I just wonder, does that change your mind at all? Honestly, Brian, it doesn't. And I know people are going to go on YouTube. My right shoulder. And y'all are, you're crazy. Because here's what I think, Brian. And I'm usually a glass half full kind of person.

But I'm just thinking, oh my gosh, what if in 18 months, 24 months, what if something happens to the market? What if one of you loses your job? Without question. Like this thing that is supposed to be so great and in a perfect world, it's great. Where Brian, in a perfect world, you could sell it, bank $220,000. That's what I'm doing every day of the week, by the way.

Half that, maxing out retirement, putting some of that in a Vanguard account, letting it grow, going on vacation on just the interest. I mean, do you know what I'm saying? Your life. I agree with you. It's all of it. I agree with you. I would sell it, Brian. I'd take the cash. And I get that it's really sentimental. I get that. Make some videos before you leave. Yeah. And can I tell you this, Brian? Have y'all moved into the new house yet? Not yet, no. And is it an upgrade of a house, would you say? Like it's nicer and...

It's a little nicer. It's importantly just more space because the family's growing. So that's the principal reason why we're here. Okay. So do you like love the new house though? Are you excited about it? Yeah. No, it's a great, I mean, wife and I are sort of the people that are really sticklers about, about things and this, this house, check the box. And I'm only saying that Brian, cause my husband and I, when we built and moved in in 19, 2019, our house was,

We had only lived in one other house. It had been about 11 years. I brought all three kids home from the hospital in this house. It's big. It's right when Winston and I moved as a married couple, we had spent a decade of, you know, and all of it. And I cried and I took pictures of every bed. I mean, all of it. And I just told Winston, I was like, I'm just, I'm so sad. I am so, I'm so sad, but yet we're building this home that we're so excited about, but I'm so sad. I'm so sad. Brian, can I tell you this? This is not an exaggeration. We moved in.

Two to three days later, I had to go back to the house because we forgot something in the garage I had to pick up. And I walked in the kitchen and I was like, I want to go back to my new house. Oh, there it is. I flipped a switch. And again, and you may not, but I'm telling you, when you make the change, the glamour and the, and I understand the sentimental factor, but it seems just to...

I don't know. For me, it'll always be special, but it's not a reason I would keep it for $560,000 a day. I think you're so right. I'm with Rachel. Take the cash. Keep the memories. And go and run off into the sunset with $220,000 in cash after a paid-for home, Brian.

And then think about this. Y'all's whole income is yours. Huge income. $3,000 rent's not even going to be a thing. Or $6,000. You know what I'm saying? There's just so much to do. And now that brand new house or that new house for you guys is a massive investment that's paid for in Connecticut. Yeah. I like it. At Connecticut Real Estate, by the way. Oh, I can only imagine. You ever been to Connecticut? Yeah.

She doesn't know. No, I was going to say Boston, but that's Massachusetts. Yeah, okay. I'll show her the map. Don't go anywhere. More coming. This is The Ramsey Show.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life, specifically winning with your money, winning in your work, and winning in your relationships. The phone number to jump in, we'd love to coach you today, is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Rachel Cruz joins me, I'm Ken Coleman, and we are thrilled to be here to talk

coach you, guide you. We want you to win. So let's get to the phones. Susie is up in Seattle, Washington. One of my favorite cities. You were just out there recently. I was, yes. A little T-Swift? A little T-Swift action this summer. Fantastic. Love Seattle. That's where Susie is. Susie, how can we help?

Well, first of all, thank you, Ken and Rachel, for taking my call. Ken, you're the perfect guy for this question. After 33 years, the corporate headquarters where I work is moving out of state. And my question is,

is about how I go through this transitionary process where they are, you know, we, we kind of have an end date that's vague and, and, and how I go about interviewing and what do I share with my current boss about what I'm doing? I mean, obviously I, I'm not going to stay. They know that. Um,

And it's just a weird kind of ethical thing I have going on in my heart. Yeah, well, you're a very, very, very upstanding, high-integrity person because of even asking this question. But I would tell you, this may shock you, I wouldn't tell them anything. Now, what I mean by that is I tell people all the time, don't cheat on your current job. So if you're going for job interviews and you've got personal time or your lunch hour or

You use that. You know what I mean? Don't, you know, you're not going on job interviews when you're supposed to be in the office. So I want to be very clear about that, but they know you're leaving. You already told us that they know why you're leaving companies relocating. And my guess is you're a, you're a, uh, an employee with high standing. Is that true with your leader?

Correct. Yeah. I'm just a person that kind of wears my emotions on my sleeve. I'm the cheerleader. Get that. And for the couple of us that are looking for other jobs, I'm kind of like trying to encourage them at the same time. Do it. Do all that. It's a weird line. No, I mean, I understand what you're saying, but I'm trying to tell you there is no line here.

It's not unethical for you to look for a new job when they've told you your job is essentially ending and they know you're not going to relocate. So it would be, in my mind, the issue is not is it ethical, it would be nonsensical for you not to apply for a job and to go do interviews. Does that make sense?

Yes. All right then. So you don't have to tell them anything. And don't lie. I mean, right? Like if they ask you point blank, be honest. Of course. But my point is that if you're going to do a job interview and you got a lunch hour, then instead of taking a normal lunch hour, then go do your job interview and you take that hour and you're a good steward of what you're supposed to be doing now. You're not doing anything wrong. Now, to Rachel's point, they go, hey, are you looking for jobs? Go, yeah.

Which, by the way, they're probably going to ask you because they know you're not staying with them anyway. So none of this is a secret. Therefore, you don't have to act secretive, but you also don't have to walk around going, hey, I interviewed the other day. Like, let's just go about our business. Like,

It'd be like me telling Rachel, like, hey, you know, she knows I probably have to go to the doctor every once in a while, but I don't go, hey, I went to the doctor today. I got a case of gout. She doesn't care. She doesn't want to know. I don't have a case of gout. But just saying. Or even if I know what that is. It's an overshare. You know what I mean? It's like, you don't need to share this because you're not doing anything wrong. Does that make sense? Yes. The other nuance here is that they're having a very hard time finding people in the new state.

And they have in the other departments that have already transitioned, they offer them to stay longer. And up until this last month, I've been pretty clear that I was willing to stay longer.

But my heart has kind of changed because, partly because of your show, I am encouraged about the job market. I know there is something better for me out there and I'm excited about that. And because of the Ramsey plan, I have total financial peace. I am not concerned at all about that and I'm ready to move on. And so I'm also kind of worried about that transition when they ask me to stay if I,

If I don't or if I— Well, here's the deal. You're right, though. It's on paper that they're letting me go on vacation. That's right. And here's the deal. You're such a nice person. You're probably a bit of a people pleaser, and you're probably wrestling with some guilt, but you've not done anything wrong. See, we use the word guilt. We apply guilt to something that is, I've done wrong, you know? And so you've not done anything wrong, and I think you're just very open and clear. And if they ask you to stay a little longer, you go, well, I don't think I'm going to.

And that doesn't make you a bad person and it doesn't make you ungrateful. I think that's what you're wrestling with. Yeah. And Susie there, you know, even when you said, oh my gosh, they're having a hard time finding people in this other state. If they have trouble, that's not your responsibility. You know what I mean? Like there's a point that they've made this decision as a company. And now that decision is not sitting well with you because of you're not going to move. And so naturally your heart has moved on. Do you know, like that's,

It's a reasonable line of thinking. You're not like out of the blue, this crazy person. I mean, that all makes sense. So just know that too. Yeah, Susie, you're a great lady and there's great things ahead. And I would be moving forward on everything that you want in the next season of your life. No guilt. Thank you so much. Yeah, you bet. Appreciate that. What a sweet lady. I love that. Yeah, so fun. And just as a little...

tack on to what she said. She said, because of the Ramsey plan, I'm able to do this. And that's a beautiful thing that we talk about a lot. When you put yourself in a position financially, you guys, and the Ramsey plan is you're out of debt, you have money saved in the bank, you're living intentionally, you have options. So even if Susie's company came in and said, you're laid off, Susie probably...

Would say, okay, because I don't have debt and I have three to six months of expenses in the bank and I'll just look for a new job. It's really sad. I've been with them for a long time, but I'm going to just, you know, even if this decision was forced upon her,

It still has a level of peace because things are taken care of. And so there's wisdom in that you guys, but even on the front end, she can proactively now say, I don't want to go with where my job is going. And she's thinking about something else. Now I can think about something else. And, and even if you don't have something for a month or two, like it's okay, you know? So it's a very good point. The financial freedom that Susie has gives her the professional freedom right now when this change has been forced on her. And now she's like, I,

I kind of want to do something else. It kind of reminds me of that scene from Jerry Maguire. Have you seen it? Yes.

You know, he finally leaves. Yes. And he's thinking he's got the world, you know, and he's in the car and he just rolls the windows down and he's singing Tom Petty's I'm Free. And he's letting it go. And that's a guy, you know, in that situation is going, look, I'm doing my thing. I'm doing what I want to do. And in this case, Susie, I think that might be the play. Might be a little chilly in Seattle, but maybe we crank up to Tom Petty on the drive home tonight.

And just enjoy. She's financially free, which means she's free to do what she wants. By the way, that's what everybody's longing for is freedom. Yep.

that autonomy over your life where you have a say. I know George Campbell and I were talking this morning on my show and we were filming a segment for his new book, Breaking Free from Broke. If y'all have not pre-ordered that, make sure to pre-order it. Get some free goodies and stuff with the pre-order. So check that out at ramseysolutions.com slash store. But we're talking about how, you know, you go through high school and college and then you're out on your own, out of your parents telling you what to do.

And then you all of a sudden look in a system that's telling you what to do, the financial system, or you're looking to the government, whatever, telling you what. And I'm telling you, it's like when you break free from all of those quote-unquote systems, you have the ability to have a say over your life in so many ways, in your career and in your money. So that freedom is massive. I'll tell you what I am fighting the freedom to do is to sing that last, that big refrain. But I think James is going to write me up for it. So I'm going to just do it during the commercial. Do it.

Just for the, just for the, because I'm free. There it is. That's all I got. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by Rachel Cruz, and we are here for you to talk to you about your money, your work, and your relationships. The phone number is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Victoria is joining us now in Philadelphia. Victoria, how can we help?

Hi, I just had, I guess, a question and just wanted your opinion on me and my husband. We just bought a home. Okay.

Tell us about it. So my husband was in the military the last five years. So we lived on a military base and I own my own hair studio. So with living with no expenses with the military, we were able to save up quite a lot of money. So when we moved back home, our intent was to buy a home and not to rent.

So we lived with my parents for just a month before we found a townhome in the area that we wanted to be in. We kind of went into it knowing like it wouldn't be our forever home. It's just a small two bedroom little townhome. But we didn't want to rent and not be able to save money.

up another significant amount of money as our down payment. So we went through with buying it, and now in my head, I'm like, will we ever be able to get out of it? It's not a forever home. How long should we stay in it? So not that I have regret of buying it, but sometimes I wonder, should we have just waited to buy a forever home, or was this a good move? All right, let's see what the details give us here. So how much did you put down? How much do you have left on the mortgage?

So it started at $385, and we put 10% down, and we also bought out the PMI. Okay. So how much do you have left?

About 360, I believe. 358, something like that. And how long ago was this that you bought it? Oh, exactly a year ago in November of 2022. Okay. Okay. And besides it just not knowing it's not your forever home, because forever homes, Victoria, honestly, it's kind of a romantization of this term, but that rarely happens. I mean, some people do. They buy their first home and they stay in it forever and ever, but most people move forever.

Two or three times right houses in their lifetime Um, so for you guys, I understand. Yeah, not wanting To rent especially when you have the money saved. So is the mortgage? How much is the mortgage compared to your income right now? Does it feel like a lot?

Um, I feel like it felt like a lot coming from, you know, not having any bills. So our payment is 2,700 a month. We have a 6.9% interest rate, so it's definitely not low. Um, all together with like all of our bills, we probably end up paying maybe $3,300 a month. Um, my husband alone brings in just about 7,500 himself per month. And then, um,

I'm a business owner, so now that it's my first year owning my hair business in this state, so I bring in about $12,000 a month, but I have to pay all the taxes. $12,000 a month?

Yeah, but she's paying. What's your take home? Well, that's the thing. It's different every month, but I would say maybe around seven, which is still really good. Listen, you guys have a 14, you got $14,000. Yeah, your income. Take home. Yeah, you're fine. Your ratio of mortgage to your income is...

It's great Yeah y'all are fine Victoria I think I would You're probably having a little buyer's remorse Because it's probably just sticker shock It's one of the largest purchases Probably the largest purchase you guys have ever made I think you were in a great I mean you guys had prime position to buy Do you guys have consumer debt? You mean any other debt? Yes any other debt besides this mortgage?

Just our two car payments, which I have, I think, $12,000 on mine, and he has, I think his is in the 20s. So it's not too bad. How much are the car payments a month? Mine's $325, and his is $400. Good grief. I'd be more nervous about that. I know. $700 going to car payments. Do you guys have any money saved? Yeah. I have about $100,000 saved, and he has just around $30,000. Wow.

Okay. What is going on here? Hey, Victoria, you guys are great. I would pay off your cars today. Yes. And no more of his savings and my savings. You guys together have $130,000. Y'all need to start looking at this.

as a as a unit right that you guys together have 130 000 put it in the same account the same high yield savings you guys this is a together conversation you and your husband are having or living out is yeah together this is what you guys have you guys have 130 000 pay off your cars today victoria you have a great savings you're in a you're in a

Beyond perfect position. You're great. Can I ask you, Victoria, have you seen another house and you know your income and you've been really disciplined to save that kind of money? Is this because you see something else that you want and you're like, dang, I got my money wrapped up in this other thing. Is that what's going on? Yeah, that's exactly what it is. So I'm 20. Me and my husband are both 23. So the fact that we were able to save so much, I feel like at a somewhat young age, I'm like, did I...

I don't waste my money on this house because I have waited and gotten more. No, no, okay, so now, all right, let me be big brother for a minute, okay? Let me tell you what you've done. You've been really, really smart except for these car payments. And Rachel's right. Cut a check for $32,000 today. If I wrote it down right, 20 and 12, and you guys still have right at $100,000 in savings, high-yield savings account, you guys are making money hand over fist. You just gave yourself a $700-plus month raise because the car payments are gone. Yes.

You know what I would do if I were you? And I won't let Rachel correct me here because she's the little sister. Believe me, she'll correct me. I would take the $700 a month that you've been in car payments and I'd put that towards the next house. After you've got your emergency fund, you're investing 15%. All of that should be walking the baby steps. But I take that $700 and I go, we're going to save up and we get through year number two of having that home so we don't take a capital gains hit. And then if you want to sell and you've got a down payment that you've saved up for with the rules that we give, Rachel, I'd like to see them

Stay in the townhouse two or three more years. Don't be in a rush. You've got a great asset. Yes, exactly. Yeah, I would be okay with that, Victoria, or putting the $700,000 towards the house so you have built-in equity. And you have built-in equity, so you're building equity. So when you guys save, you have more equity in the house to use for the next house. They've got margin to do both. My point is, I look at $14,000 take home, and you said your bills are, we're going to call it, I think you said $3,300,000 or something?

Just around that. My goodness. Yeah, you could be doing the baby steps, paying towards that. Yeah, you're doing great, Victoria. Plus saving a down payment. You did not do something. No, you did not do something wasteful. This is it. You did it perfectly. You're doing great. Yep. You guys have a nice little town home. Does that help you? Does that help you like...

Okay, we're okay. It does make me feel better. Yeah, it does make me feel much better. Do you guys want kids soon? Do you see that you want to move areas? Is there any of that that's kind of playing in? Okay. It's just you just really freaking out that you own something. Kind of, yeah. We have enough space for us, too. It's just like a want to have more space, and should we have waited to get exactly what we wanted? Listen, let me tell you, and Rachel's great at this. You said it. I'm going to remind you what's going on.

You know you can afford something bigger and better, and you didn't get it, and you're going, you're trying to play armchair quarterback and go back and go, oh, but you can't do that. You guys are making more money now. And all this is is, ah, I'd like this, and on paper, financially, what we're making, we could make it. We could get that house, and that's all you're dealing with.

That's it. That's it. You didn't make a bad move though. And you can upgrade down the line. Yeah. Be patient is the point. Wait a couple years. 23. Yeah. Yeah. Wait a couple years. You'll have the sweet house. And upgrade if you want. But you're good. And this would be a good season too, Victoria, of practicing a level of contentment, right? Because I think there is something in the sense that even though we can do it financially, do we need it? Yeah.

And there's a little bit of that discipline in that. And I think that's what's hard. What we always like warn people when they have money saved and they go to the mortgage broker, the mortgage broker is automatically going to be like, no, but look at the house you could get. You couldn't get this much of a mortgage. And you're like, nope, I'm doing this. I'm doing this. So I think there's a level of practice of just, Hey, you guys are really blessed. You've worked really hard. You've been really smart. You're good. You don't, you don't need more space, even though mathematically you could, but,

you don't need it. So Victoria, I would take this season and I would have sweet memories and a space that maybe feels a little tight to you guys, but it's a, but it's a good season of life. And then when you want to upgrade later on the line, you can, but you don't need to. What do you call these hands on Instagram? Oh,

Oh, this means all done with babies. No, sorry. What's the little... Praise hands emoji. Praise hands. That's what I'm doing. I can't see it, Victoria. I had to have Rachel help me. She's better at the whole social than I am. That's what I'm doing right now. You guys are crushing it. Praise hands. So happy for you. Praise hands. That's what that's called? That's what I call it. Praise hands emoji. Oh, I did it wrong because I started doing... I thought you were doing this. This is what you do all done. It was a little Beyonce move. It's a sign language for all done. This is the Randy show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me. We're here to answer your questions about your money and your work and your relationship. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Portland, Oregon is where we go next. Carson is there. Carson, how can we help? Hi. I'm looking to start a fab shop with a friend of mine and

And I'm just curious if that is something that I wouldn't have to take a commercial loan out for. Is that even smart? No. I'm also trying to go into a welding program, right? And that will also require me to take out student loans. Okay, whoa. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. I want you to keep going, but I want to understand this. How much is the welding program going to cost?

$28,000. And that is how long? How long before you get... 10-month program. How much? $28,000 for a 10-month program. 10 months. Okay. And what is the different... What are you going to do with that? Is that going to help you in the fab shop where you're all that fabricating, or is this something separate?

No, it will help me as in because when we start the fabrication process, I'm going to be running all of the business, but it's just going to be me and my buddy doing most of the welding, and I don't want him to be alone doing all the welding. Okay. Is there another option than a $28,000 welding program?

Well, I've kind of panicked when I heard that and I called you guys and I called my parents and my dad has owned the business. He owns a body shop and has welders on his payroll and he was looking at buying me a welder, actually a pig welder for Christmas and just buying material myself. And I, I'm just thinking about it and I've talked it over with my friend who's the welder and he

According to him, I can learn how to weld all on my own. You can. And I don't need a piece of paper. You don't need it at all. Yes, Carson. So, Carson, thank you for playing. I was walking you right into that because welding does not require any kind of licensing. Welding requires experience. You're surrounded by welders. Carson, please, please, please, please do not take that program. Do not take it. You don't need it, number one. Number two, you can't afford it.

And your dad is in an industry that you could sit down with any of those guys and watch and learn. Let me also say this, just business 101, Carson, you get this business up and running and you need a second pair of hands. If you're not at that skill level yet, you can hire that out. There are plenty of welders out there and you build that into the cost of doing the work. So you having to take this course is not a requirement. And I don't want you to take the loan out. Now let's talk about the business itself.

What do you think it's going to cost real capital to actually start this fabrication business?

$300,000. What's the $300,000 go for? Talk me through that. Leasing the building out for a period of time, however that may be. The welders in particular, the welding tools, TIG welding, the MIG welders, all of that, the gas, that's going to cost around $3,000 for the gas. It's going to cost around $10,000 for all the welders, and it's going to cost, well,

Well, the welder salaries, that's the thing because there's per diem and then there's how much you're actually getting per hour. And I'm thinking, well, I'd want somebody starting out at least 25 because I want somebody of skill. And per diem, well, that's $100 a day or $75, $50 a day depending on the level of skill. How old are you, Carson? I'm 19 years old. Carson, this is great.

So I'm going to challenge those numbers, but I like that you're already able to rattle off those answers. But you're 19. My advice to you is...

Go work for a fabricator. Get the welding skill by getting paid to do it, working with your dad, working with friends of your dad. Get into this business, but have somebody else pay you. You're 19. Maybe you do it for four or five years. I'm not going to hold you to that. I don't want to hang that timeline on you. I'm giving you an example. But let's just say that you did it for four years. That puts you at 23, and you've been making really good money as a welder or in a fabrication shop, even if you're on the business side.

side because I hear more of a business guy than a welder. So if I go to work for somebody who's winning in the car fabrication space and all that, and I get a master's degree in real life experience while I'm getting paid and I'm putting money away and I'm going to take that new welding skill and I'm going to make an extra $50,000 a year. And in four years, I got 200 grand.

I'm trying to play this out for you that my friend, if in fact it's going to take you 300 grand to eventually open up your own business, you are so young and so far ahead of the game with your vision and knowledge. Be patient because at 26, you could start that business cash, have zero risk and be crushing it and be a multimillionaire. Carson, the amount of small business owners we talked to that are paying for companies that have closed eight years ago and they're still paying off the loan. It's not good. It's not good.

So remember this move at the speed of cash. It's going to be slower. It's not going to be as exciting, but you're not, you're going to make way less mistakes and different decisions when you're using your money versus the banks. So no, at please at 19, 19,

don't go take out a student loan for $28,000 please don't go take out a business loan with your friend for a hundred grand don't do the 300,000 no no no none of that I would not do any of that yeah take your time you're very smart you're gonna start the stuff is gonna start to click and you're gonna start to understand oh my gosh if I just stay in this and I'm patient and it's gonna go by so fast three years it's like a blink I mean life goes by so fast Carson

Take your time and you're going to freaking kill it. That's right. You're going to do so well. Oh, yeah. And it's going to be all yours. It's going to be all yours. So do not take the risk of taking out that debt. Listen, one last thing on this to all young people like this. If you want to start a business in a certain field when you're this young, go work for somebody who's crushing it in the field. The amount of knowledge and wisdom you're going to get while getting paid is

is enormously valuable. And sometimes you may get into the business and be like, oh, is this what this is? It's not all it's cracked up to be. It's not what I was thinking. Very good point. I mean, people do that a lot where they have this idea of something and then you go get it and you're like, ooh. What do you say, Rachel? Can we help Rebecca? Yeah, we'll go quick. Let's go. Rebecca in Minneapolis, how can we help?

Hi, I'm just calling because I'm going back to work next week. I just had my third baby, so maternity leave is ending. Uh-oh. And...

Daycare costs are going to be starting. I already have one son in daycare, and we pay $225 a week for him to be in there full-time. And right now, with adding a baby, we're going to be up to $425 a week, which seems pretty steep for our area. I've kind of been looking around at rates and just burning home. It seems like a lot.

Um, we've been with her for five years and I just don't know if it's worth bringing up, you know, a conversation about like, well, what happened or, I mean, pay living is crazy. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, like why? Because I had my daughter, when my daughter and son went, I paid 360 for them to be there for full time. So it jumped pretty significantly. Probably inflation. And I just don't, I don't know if it's worth the conversation or is that just something that we got to suck up for two years? I think it's always worth a conversation. I think, yeah,

Yeah, I mean, I think it's totally fair to talk to her and just say, hey, here's the numbers we had. Here's our situation. Is there any way you could do $400 or $370 or $390? You know what I mean? Give her a price that's fair because, like you said, her rent on the place may have gone up. I mean, there are these expenses involved.

I would assume she's not just jacking the rate, jacked the rate. She may be, but there's also a lot of costs that goes into owning a business. And so I would offer her another price and just see if she takes it. And if she doesn't, yeah, you guys are either, it's going to be two years of dishing out $4.25 a week for childcare. Yeah.

find other options if you feel safe doing that and or one of you guys wrestling with the idea of like does one of you just stay home right I mean there's a point where child care can be sick it is it's so expensive so frustrating it's so frustrating but it can be so expensive that you have to equate hey is this worth the trade-off of what I'm actually bringing home in my other job

And is it making sense financially and for our family? So that's always a conversation. But I would have a conversation with her and offer her a different price and see if she takes it. Yeah. Thank you for the call. Congrats on the new little one. I know. And this is a hard, I know, going back after the third. It's a lot, Rebecca. Oh, boy. So I feel you. Don't move. More of your calls coming up. This is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me this hour. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Our scripture of the day comes from Galatians 6, verse 10. So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith. Our quote today comes from Theodore Roosevelt. It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed.

That guy would have been a great locker room speech guy. I'd love to see him give a pregame talk. We've got the president in here today. He's going to fire. You've got the Army-Navy game coming this weekend. I could see him giving a talk there. So there you go. There's your little known fact of the day. Nobody cares about the Army-Navy game coming up this weekend. It's a sad time for me. All college football has ceased.

I know. Until we get to. New Year's. Yeah, it's a really tough time for me. There's a few weeks. Be thinking about me. Thoughts and prayers for me on the weekend. I will. Sorry, Ken. Thank you. Mike is up in Cleveland, Ohio. Mike, how can we help? Yeah, hi, guys. Nice to talk to you. Good to talk to you.

So I had left a 10-year career in health and fitness about two years ago, trying to get into like a new career space, looking at like project management or some sort of leadership role at the hospital I'm currently at. And my current role, it's a combination of a lot of different fields. I'm in virtual health coordinator, and it's part IT, customer service, vendor management, project management, tech support.

My question is I have an upcoming surgery in January where I'm going to be off for about six to eight weeks and I'll have a lot of free time. I'm just wondering what you would recommend I can do to expand my skills, my knowledge, and if there's any courses or certifications out there that I should be looking into. Yeah. So I love this question. I would get to the most practical things that will help you get where you want to go. So if you want to get into project management,

and or leadership, I would be focusing on those two things. So just off the top of my head, I'm going, all right, what leadership podcast am I going to be listening to? The Entrez Leadership Podcast is a great podcast here from Ranger Solutions. What leadership books? I can make recommendations on that. But I'm going to be really diving in. I've got this downtime. So I'm going to be reading. I'm going to be listening. I'm going to be watching.

And so I would start there. But my question is, are you wanting to move into project management and then allow that to kind of set you up for some leadership roles? Which way do you really want to go?

That's the part I'm still navigating. And I'm doing that with my current supervisor. He meets with me once a month to kind of explore career options. I was in leadership in the health and fitness industry, and I liked that part. And now in my current role, I'm doing a little bit of project management. So at this point, this is kind of where I've just...

kind of started to get my feet in the water and figure out more clearly what I want. Well, so for instance, we at Ramsey Solutions, we did a, I partnered with our Ramsey education department about a year and a half ago, and we came out with a project management course and

And so taking a course like that, if you haven't done anything more than just kind of I stepped into, I'm dabbling in project management in my current role, a project management certification would be a great thing to do in that six- to eight-week period. And again, kick the tires on what we've got. I'll have Austin connect you to our team on that. You can see if you want to use that or not, but it's a really good course. But absolutely, if project management is something you're interested in,

I would do some research on several courses, like you would a college course. I'd go, do I really want to spend the money and the time to take it? And I think that's the answer. I'd talk to some more people who are in project management. This is why I wrote the book, The Proximity Principle. It was largely, look, if I want to do something, I want to get around people that are doing it.

And get an idea of the good, the bad, the ugly. And so before you make any of these decisions on what to do, let's do a little bit of research. And I think your heart's always going to say, you know, it's either that X from Family Feud, you know, or the ding, ding, ding. And looking into something and talking to people who do it, that's when the heart comes in and goes, oh, I don't actually want to do that. And you've been in leadership before. It was just a different industry. Yeah.

So if you loved leadership before, my guess is you're going to love it again. And if project management somehow gives you a little bit more skill and experience to expand your leadership role and you like the idea of it, then I'd go with it. But that's my advice. I want to keep it really simple. Rachel? Yeah, and I think, you know, Ken's advice of sitting down with people that are doing it, I think is one of the smartest things because you

You can kind of have this broad idea and talk to many different people in different lanes of this and in different industries. And you really will start to weed out. My husband, Winston, just did this a few months ago. And he was like, it was so funny because you kind of have one picture in your head. And then you're kind of like, okay, that was good information from there. Okay, I got that. I mean, probably four or five different meals, lunches.

And then another opportunity pops up. He's like, oh, now I really know that's exactly what I want to do there because of, you know, it's all of it. So go and have lunch with people, talk with them and all these industries. And people are happy to share their experiences and what they know, the good, the bad. But I think that that's one of the best resources you can do. And I think it is so helpful just to weed down.

okay, this is it. This is really what I've realized I loved. Yeah, absolutely. So Mike, where you're standing right now, I mean, what is that five, seven, 10 year, not holding you to this? What would you like to be doing? Yeah, that's something I've talked about with my boss. And

Just coming from such a different space, it's hard. But I know one of the pieces of the puzzle is the current hospital I'm at, I would love to stay there long term. And then I do want to get back into leadership. It's just I don't know which area of the hospital I would want to fall into. Well, then, as Rachel just said, that's what you're starting to do. You're in. You're in.

You need to be setting up meetings with people in all those different departments of the hospital, whatever that looks like, and get an idea where you want to land. That's the good news. You're already in the door. And then so if you want to be in the leadership role, I would just be using that downtime to just fill yourself up with knowledge, but then get some real wisdom, like Rachel said, from real people who are leading in the hospital industry, whatever that's like. That's a very nuanced world.

Very different than probably what you're used to. But the leadership side is still the same. That's going to change. You care for people. You love coaching people. You love serving people. You've got great experience there. All this other stuff is now just like, what's that sandbox I want to play in? And I thought Rachel's advice was great. And by the way, most people are afraid to do that, Rachel. They're afraid to just go, hey, can I take you to lunch? Can I buy? By the way, everybody loves lunch.

to get a free lunch and a free coffee. And the only thing people love more than a free lunch or a free coffee is... Talking about themselves. Yes. That's what you're going to say. Yes. Like, I mean, this is a no-brainer. Hey, Rob, can I take you out for lunch? My treat. I want to pick your brain on what you think about... It doesn't even matter what you say after that. But Rob's going to be like, yeah, I'm in, man. Absolutely. Give me a sub and a Diet Coke and I'll...

Give you what you need A sub and a Diet Coke All of a sudden We're at Subway Rob is dispensing Wisdom Yeah yeah yeah Better call there But isn't that true though Yes well And it's having The real life It's just like The young guy We talked to Last segment About the welding

There is something about just real life experience. And I think that's one thing, you know, I know about the education system. You have all your thoughts and stuff on. And I'm like, and that is one missing piece. It's not the real world. You can take as many classes on something. But when something is just in a formulaic way or in your head, what you've made it up to be,

It may not all be accurate until you're really in the nuts and bolts of life and asking people's experiences and understanding with the filter, right, that they're bringing their own stuff to the conversation. So, right, it's but it's but you're getting a picture of, OK, this is kind of what this looks like. Expectations. And even I mean, even for him in a great way, it's like that specific hospital. And, you know, you're going to learn the culture of that place.

You know what I mean? Like there's a lot of things you'll be able to pick up nuances within that, within those conversations with people that it's very helpful too to be on your side as you start this leadership track. So a couple of little practical questions coming off this call for a lot of you that are out there wondering, even on a side hustle, do I launch it? Let me give you a couple of quick questions based on what Rachel and I've been talking about. Do I want to do it? Does my heart get excited about the idea of doing, I want to, now you've got to follow up with,

Can I do it? Do I have the core talent that with training and experience that I could pull it off? And then how?

Right? So how? Meaning, what's the best way? By the way, there's always multiple paths up a mountain. Yep. And so that, everything we've just described is going to answer those three questions. And if you do that, guess what happens? You've got yourself a really good plan that's not very risky because you know what you're getting into. It isn't just I'm walking blind trying to hope that it works out. So there you go. Rachel Cruz, absolutely fun show today. Thank you, my friend. By the way, she was telling me,

She's on the Instagram and she's putting out these great things, great advice all the time. So check her out on the gram, at Rachel Cruz. She's dropping the wisdom bombs. Go check her out. I'm Ed Ken Coleman. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey guys, I'm Rachel. And I'm George. And you've probably heard our voices before on The Ramsey Show. And do we have a surprise for you? Yep, we have our very own show, Smart Money Happy Hour, where we talk about pop culture, current events, and of course, money. George, it's a great show. And what else do we talk about? So much, Rachel. Not enough, and yet too much. We talk about guilt tipping, because tipping is out of control, and I won't stand for it anymore, which is why I'm sitting. I'm glad you're taking such a stand. Okay.

And we also talk about something else I'm passionate about, Disney adults. Oh, George. Why is it a thing? Listen, some adults still find the magic. Sure.

We also talk about toxic money traits and girl math. And if you don't know what those are, you have to listen to the podcast. Yeah, there's a lot there, you guys. It's pretty fun. We keep you relevant is what I'm trying to say. We help you out. So pull up a chair to the happy hour you wish your friends were having. We promise you won't regret it. And if you don't have friends, we'll be your friends. We will. We're great friends. So make sure to check it out on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or the Ramsey Network app.