#24 Shawn Ryan's Psychedelic Experience 02:25:28

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I saw our waterfall several times and I said, "Okay, I'm ready to do it again." Were you nervous again? I was nervous again, but I knew there was more. And it's not, you don't know what else there is, but you know that there's more.

Essentially what's happening is you're entering this higher level of consciousness that you've not experienced before and you don't want to come back. And I just started yelling at the top of my lungs. I was like, "Go in there! Go in there! Get in!" And I knew what it was like to die. Hey everybody, welcome back to the show. This one's a little bit different.

I want to share my psychedelic experience with you all, how it benefited me. I'm going to tell you every little detail, what I saw, what I experienced, all the little intuitive type things that came up. I'm doing this for two reasons. One, I've heard about this for a couple years now from a multitude of different guests that have been on the show. I finally decided to go try it myself, and man, it changed everything.

changed my entire life, my whole family dynamic for the better and I want to get the word out there because I think this could help a lot of people, not just veterans, everybody. And the second reason I'm doing it is because I want to raise money for the organization that put me through that which is Vets, founded by Marcus and Amber Capone. So there's a link in the description, very prominent placement. Please go to the link

and donate even if it's just one dollar if everybody donates one dollar and this show gets two hundred thousand views that's two hundred thousand dollars that they can spend putting former special operations guys through this treatment we've all been through a lot and they deserve it and so please help me and my friends out donate to vets

so that they can send more guys through this treatment. Save more families, more lives. You guys get the point. And I know you'll do it, 'cause I love you guys, and I know you love us. So thank you in advance. Enjoy the show. - So you went on a trip last week. - I did go on a trip. And I took Ibogaine, and then all my hair fell out.

I like this new look. I'm just kidding. I'm digging it. The Ibogaine did make my hair fall out. I'm just getting old and I have a bald spot. And it just started to look like, you know, it started to look like a guy trying to cover up a bald spot. So I had to whack it off. Well, you've been talking about it since before our wedding. Yeah, it's been two years. So...

I'm all for it. I like this now. So you want to hear about my Ibogaine treatment with vets? I do. I want to hear all about it. I guess I should probably talk about why I did it. You know, we've had so many people here that have talked about how psychedelics have helped with anxiety, PTSD, traumatic brain injury, anger, depression.

forgetting what you're saying mid-sentence, all that kind of stuff. And it kind of started with Gallagher, Eddie Gallagher, and then we brought Marcus and Amber Capone on who started Vets. McCall, McHale, Vega did it. He's the one that he was kind of the pioneer in the SEAL community that brought it to light. And DJ Shipley did it. Ed Calderon had talked about it.

And there's more guys going, but after hearing all these guys talk about how life-changing it was, something that people don't really see behind the camera is what goes on outside of this room. And I do deal with a lot of anxiety and a lot of anger, especially when it comes to all kinds of things. Yeah.

And I'm tired of living like that and being in the moment, you know, forgetting what I'm saying mid-sentence. I do that on camera all the time. And, you know, I just, I thought I was good because, you know, before we had met and while we met, I did like three and a half years of therapy twice a week. That's like 300 and something sessions. Yeah.

And it did do a lot for me. But then we moved and that was, we moved and I'm not with that therapist anymore. So I didn't want to find a new one. And I figured, you know, I might want to give this a shot. So we went down there and we did Ibogaine. The treatment includes Ibogaine and 5-MeO-DMT, which is actually different.

DMT and Rosie that don't know what those are there's a ton of information online about both of those and and actually Tony Robbins gives a very good description of what his 5me o DMT experience was like and how it took his fear of death away but so yeah we went down there and I had called

Marcus and Amber, as you know, I actually texted them and I had like kind of a breakdown and I was just ready to do it. And honestly, I felt kind of guilty calling them because I know there are a lot of guys that are a lot worse off than me and who are in relationships with their wife that are a lot worse off than us. We have a great relationship, but I do struggle a lot with a lot of things.

and and they they got me right in there you know and and I was a little skeptical you know you got to be open-minded for something like this extremely open-minded and I didn't know how it was going to go but I was just going off of the the the authenticity that these guys on the show you know have and and and how genuine they are when they talk about this treatment so I figured let's

I'm going to try it. Yeah. And they couldn't, Marcus and Amber couldn't have put a better program together, to be honest. Everything is top notch. We went down there and when you arrive, it is in a house that's, it's not on the beach, but it's got a hell of a view of the ocean. And everybody had their own room. They have a full medical staff. They have chefs, doctors,

They take this extremely seriously. It's not like I think what a lot of people think where you go down there and it's going to be like 1965, you know, with a bunch of hippies doing in the woods or something. Yeah, it's nothing like that. I mean, you get there. First thing you do is you get hooked up to a heart rate monitor. They give you an EKG. They put like I think it's like eight wires on you.

test your heart to make sure you're healthy enough to do the medication. They get an entire list of medications that you're on before you even go down there to make sure it doesn't interact with anything that you're going to be doing. Right. Didn't you have blood work done here too before you went down? Yeah, they made you get an EKG here and blood work done here before you even go down. Right. And then when you go down there, they do it all over again. So I got down there. I mean, basically I put my bags in the room and it was

go get your EKG done, go get your blood, urine samples, list of medications. They make you turn over all of your medications right there. And they're just taking safety precautions and making sure that you're healthy enough to do the Ibogaine treatment, the 5-MeO DMT treatment. I think it's majority for Ibogaine because that's such a heavy drug. But

Also, though, you weren't supposed to be drinking or anything leading up to that, too, right? No drinking for four days. Prior to even going. Prior to. And that was hard for me. But I think a lot of people that watch this, they saw my social anxiety video and...

think I don't drink. I do drink. I just don't drink hard stuff. And I drink about a bottle of wine to a half a bottle of wine a night and every night before I go to bed. So that was, that was a little challenging. It wasn't too tough, but it was a little challenging. So we got down there and I went with two other people. One, I'm not going to mention their name because I don't

permission. The other was I actually went with Marcus Capone and man, their staff down there was just so welcoming and extremely professional. They even have chefs. You get a three course meal, sometimes a four course meal, three times a day. I mean, breakfast is a three course meal. Wow. And it's got like the

presentation and everything uh it i mean it's like a five-star restaurant you know and uh except you're just eating in a dining room it's and so i guess i'm telling all this because i'm trying to paint a picture when you go down there it is 110 all about relaxation

you know they want you to be comfortable it's not you're not overloaded with all these different activities to do all day long it's it is come down here relax think about why you're doing this think about your intentions on why you're doing this think about what you want to get rid of or what you hope to get rid of and and the other thing they do tell you is don't come down here

With a whole bunch of expectations because of the other people have done it because this stuff works different on everybody. And so I did go down there. I didn't have any expectations. And honestly, I was a lot more skeptical than I probably let on being down there. But another real quick, though, another thing, though, that's important, too, is communication. You know what I mean? Like you were kind of cut off.

From your phone and things like that, which I think was really good. Like, I think you had the option to have your phone. Yeah. But I think to be in the moment, to really get the most of the experience, it sounds like anyways, you really need to like surrender your phone and be there. Right. Yeah. They, they, they don't make it like mandatory, like hand over your phone. Um, but they definitely encourage not being on your phone all the time. And so I, I,

turn my phone over. And we talked to a good friend of ours who had done this experience and he said the same thing. Him and his wife said, hey, you know, don't be on the phone. Just disconnect. Yeah, disconnect. Be selfish and let this medicine do what it needs to do. You have to be 100% committed in it for this stuff to work. And we both really respect that

Not just that individual, but that couple. And really took that to heart. So yeah, I got down there and I put my phone on no notifications. This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp Online Therapy. Stress affects us all. We just don't always realize how. Headaches, teeth grinding, digestive issues, sleeping too much or too little, overeating or not eating enough are just a few ways stress affects us.

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And you were the only one I was texting at first, just you and Sonny, you know, our son. And then Tuesday I turned it over and I was like, I just... Even that first night, it was I'm getting texts from all these people and it makes... It's like I can't, I don't want to deal with this right now. This is for me. And so I did wind up just turning the phone off, handing it over. And...

So you go down there the first day, you do all the medical stuff, and then you do the sweat lodge. Second day is very lax. You watch a couple of documentaries on Ibogaine about the treatment and some of the science behind it and what it does, which was extremely interesting. And there's a lot of coaching that happens from...

Trevor and his staff Trevor's it's his business. It's his he's I don't know what his I don't know what his title would be. I think it would be psychedelic healer Maybe I don't think he's a shaman, but he's I think he's a psychedelic healer. That's what we'll call him psychedelic healer so

They kind of coach you and manage expectations and encourage you to, you know, really dive deep into your intentions and everything. So I journaled the whole thing in this book, which is the same book that all the guest stuff goes in. So I journaled everything in this book, every event. I didn't journal every day, I don't think, but I did.

but I journaled every event that we did. And yeah, so I wrote down why I was there and I really dove deep into my intentions. And so my major intention, my first, my primary priority was just to be, I wanted to be in the moment again, because I know you know this, but it would be, it was just,

I couldn't talk to you without my head being somewhere else. And I couldn't play with our son, Sonny, without my head being somewhere else. And the only thing I could do to be in the moment is to drink a half a bottle of wine and smoke marijuana every night until midnight. Why are you crying? And, uh,

And then I would go to bed, come home, go to work for eight plus hours. Half the time I wouldn't even get anything done. I'm just doing busy work. And that created a lot of stress, you know, and you saw how it was in traffic and crowds. I had a ton of anxiety. My anxiety immediately turns to anger, which makes me pissed off all day long, yelling about politics, traffic, you name it. I'm upset.

And so I knew that was affecting you and I knew if it wasn't affecting our son yet, then it was going to when he starts getting older. And so I wanted to make some changes. And so that was my primary intention. I wanted to be in the moment. I wanted to get rid of anxiety. I wanted to get rid of my anger. And I just wanted to be a better husband and a better father for our son and for you.

And another thing, and then I wrote like some other stuff down that I don't really feel like I need to get into. One of them being, you know, I forget what I'm saying mid-sentence all the time.

people make fun of me in the comments section about it oh you've been blown up too many times yeah it's all funny and that's great you can talk on youtube uh behind a keyboard but this is real like it is from being blown up too many times and um and um so after marcus's interview because he has

Bad TBI. I was hoping that it was gonna do something for me and So and that's that's humiliating, you know when you can't put a sentence together or you forget what you're talking about mid-sentence people just I mean I just told you look at the comment section on YouTube and So I was hoping maybe that that would help with some of that too. I

And so I wrote all this stuff down and wrote down how I was feeling. And I wrote down all the stuff that I wanted the medicine to take away also, which was besides anxiety and anger issues, I wanted it to, and stress, I wanted it to take away just stuff that we all deal with, whether you want to admit it or not, you know, jealousy.

You know, we've had a lot of people on the show and a lot of businesses have blown up because of this show. And a lot of people have actually passed me up from being on my own show and which creates a lot of resentment. And so I wanted the resentment to go away because that's the whole point of this is to help guys, you know, build businesses. And it does exactly that. We've done amazing things with this show. And, um,

But it was always I always just felt used, not just from people on the show. Very few, actually. But I've always felt a lot of resentment, you know, because I when somebody asks for help, what do I do? I drop everything. I drop my family.

To go help people and then when you don't get the appreciation, you know the resentment sets in so I wanted resentment I want a resentment gone. I wanted anxiety gone. I wanted anger gone. I wanted jealousy gone. I wanted greed gone I wanted all those things just to be out of my life and and and you know, I'm big on people with an ego problem and

And I think we all have an ego problem and I wanted my ego to just go away. And so that's a long list. But so I wrote it all down. And when you do this treatment, it's very ceremonial. So Ibogaine comes from a plant in Africa. I think it's Cardone. I may be butchering that, but you can look it up online. I think it comes from Cardone. I believe that's the country.

in Africa and it's very tribal you know there it's a lot of like tribal traditions and and and very ceremonial fire yelling uh dancing war paint the whole shebang whatever you want to call it and so at least the way Trevor runs it is it is very ceremonial I'm not quite that ceremonial but

He had us write down all of our intentions and everything we wanted to get rid of on a piece of paper and we all sit around in a circle around a fire. And you can say your intentions and what you want to get rid of. You don't have to. If you want to just say something else and say what you're thankful for, whatever you want to say, you can say there. And when it's your turn and you're done talking,

You put your piece of paper with all that information into a fire and burn it. And there's a lot of like, I think they're burning sage. And then you get the first pill. And this is at night. We took the first pill at 7.30 p.m.

Then they give you they say look this takes a while to kick in so Everybody go do whatever you want. I'm within the house and in the kind of the backyard which is overlooks the ocean and And but at 8:30, we need everybody upstairs which so you do it in this It's kind of like a lookout room. It's got all these windows and which they black everything out for this but you go upstairs and

And after an hour, so I went downstairs to my room and I just went through everything that I've written, all the reasons I went there. And they also said, if you have questions, memorize your questions or if you want to bring a notebook upstairs and you can they said you can ask the medicine questions, which I I was like, OK.

Ask the medicine questions. I mean, I didn't say anything and I was very open-minded I didn't judgment is another thing. I wanted to get rid of mmm, but because I'm very judgmental and So so I read through all my notes I just wanted to keep everything as fresh as possible in my head and I had all these questions and you know One of my questions is I wrote down all kinds of questions. I'm just gonna keep that to myself but one up there at 8:30 and

And I went up there at 8.30. Marcus was already up there. The other gentleman was already up there. And you have these mattresses that are on the floor. I walk into the room. The room's completely, they blacked all the windows out. And you kind of settle under your mattress. I wore just like pajamas, a hoodie and pajama pants. Walk in and right in front of your mattress, they had like a,

like a big mirror in front of everybody's mattress. They had a big mirror and a candle and then like some other stuff. There was like a jar of rocks with some, a feather sticking out and then like a thing of flowers and everybody had the exact same thing. And then you have a

bucket or a trash can next to you because a lot of people wind up vomiting on this on Ibogaine because it's so potent and they call that a purge and they say if you're gonna purge then you're purging all this like negative energy or Things from the past or whatever you're purging all that. So anyways, I did have some questions even though I was skeptical I had memorized them and

And hearing some of this stuff beforehand, it's, you know, I've never done any psychedelics. I've done a lot of drugs, but I've never done any psychedelics. And so the first thing they do once you kind of settle in is they hook you up to that EKG machine again. And they have a full med staff in there.

And I mean, even before this, they're running IVs. I mean, they're making sure you're hydrated. Everything like is top notch there. And so they hook everybody up to these EKG machines to monitor your heart during the treatment because it does raise your heart rate a lot. And it can create a lot of anxiety depending on what you're dealing with during your experience. So they hook everything up and

And then you take another pill. And almost immediately, so it was an hour between... I think it was an hour between pill one, pill two. And, oh, and also at the end of the mattress, they had these maracas with, like, this tribal stuff inscribed on the side of it. And you bring an eye mask, too. Put an eye mask over your face when it starts... when you start feeling the medicine. And so...

I sat Indian style. I'm looking at this mirror and they start, once everybody's hooked up and everything's good to go medically, they play this music called wiki music. And this shit is like nothing I'd ever heard. I don't even know why they call it music. It sounds like, yeah, it sounds like 50 people in a house and it would be

It would be like you go take that tin trash can and just start banging it against the wall as loud as you can. And you take the trash can lid and just start throwing it on the ground at random. And you go over to the cabinet and start throwing all the glass out of the cabinet and just smashing everything on the floor. And you just start slamming cabinet doors. And you...

Grab a pot and bang it on the counter. I mean, there's like no rhyme, no rhythm, no nothing. All you can tell is it speeds up and slows down. So it is like pure chaos. And you're just listening to this like, what the hell are we listening to? And I think what they're doing is they're trying to... One, it's from that area of Africa, I believe. It's part of the ceremony. And...

And that's what you're listening to when this thing starts. So I'm looking in the mirror and, you know, I'm still a little skeptical. And they said, they said, you know, when the medicine kicks in, a lot of people will hear a buzz. And I was like, okay, well, I'm probably not going to hear a buzz because I have tinnitus really bad. And I hear a buzz or ringing like all the time. So I'm like, there's no way I'm going to hear a buzz.

And I'm sitting there and so I'm like, all right, well, you know, I'm open. I'm going to let this thing do whatever it needs to do because that's the other thing they say is just you have to allow this stuff to work. Don't fight it. No matter what comes up from your past or whatever the feeling is, just let this medicine take you where it needs to take you and show you what it needs to show you.

So I did I was really open-minded and and so we start in the mirror and I'm shaking this Morocco listening to this Music I'm sitting Indian style. I'm just like, you know, all right looking at myself and and I'm looking myself in the mirror and Nothing's happening. This is how long after the second pill? I don't know you have you have like no conception You have no concept of time none at all. I

I'm just shaking this maraca, nothing's really happening and then they come over and they give you another pill. And so I don't know, I don't know how long it was. I feel like maybe it was an hour in between pill one and pill two, maybe 30 minutes in between pill two and pill three. And then they give you a fourth pill and I think maybe that's like, I think they cut the time in half every time, but I'm not sure 'cause you don't actually have any concept of time. But, so I took second pill. I'm sitting there

And I'm shaking this damn maraca and nothing's happening. And all you can see is like your face and like the candle flicker, you know? There's no other light in there, so it's really dark. And sure as shit, something starts happening. And I start seeing these black tears come out of my eyes. And I wasn't crying.

But I just saw like black tears. And I saw like out of my peripheral, because I'm looking at myself in the eyes, in the mirror. And then I could, you know, out of my peripheral, I could see the tears. But if I tried to focus on the tears, they were gone, like immediately gone. So I'd look at myself in the eye again, and then the tears would start again. And I was trying to figure out, I was like, is that a shadow from the candle? Or...

Or is this actually happening? And I mean, I knew it wasn't actually happening because I went like, you know, what the? And so I kept shaking and sure as shit, once I figured out that if I focus on it or try to focus on it, then it's going to disappear. So I just let it, I quit trying to focus on it and I just looked at it through my peripheral and

It just started tearing like more and I could see the tears like dripping off my nose and they were black and so That kind of went away a little bit. I just kind of stopped and I was like man that was weird and I look over and The guy I was in the center of the guy to my right he had already laid down and put his eye mask on I looked over and Marcus was kind of still doing his thing looking in the mirror and

And the next thing I saw was I saw my head split into two from the top down. Like you draw a center line from the center of my head, down my nose, down my chin. And it like split. Like it started, it was almost like it was peeling. And so it started here and my head just like went like that. Started going like that. And once again, if I tried to focus on it,

then it would just, it would, the minute I'd focus on it, it was just back to normal. And, but when your head's like splitting like that, it's hard not to freak out a little bit. And, you know, I'm looking at it and it would come back, you know, and then I would let it, I would look at it through my peripheral vision and it would start doing this again. And that one, I kept, I couldn't help myself from trying to focus on it because it's so,

weird looking. Right. And everything's like perfectly proportioned. Like if, if your head was to peel and bend, like everything was exactly the way you think it would look, but there's nothing, there's no like blood and guts. I can't see my brain or anything, you know, it's just splitting. And after like three or four times, and once I got it again, like, all right, just try not to focus on it. Just let it, let it happen. And, and,

try not to focus on it my head was like this and it kept splitting and then up the middle of where my top my head was splitting like i saw another head coming out of my head and it was my own head so it was like this it was like this head was peeling and then another head was coming up of my head and

like started at the forehead, like very slowly. It's not like it just popped up. It was just like very slowly. So you couldn't really tell at first. And I was like, that's my own head coming, coming out of my head. And so I was like looking at that. And right about that time, I started to hear that buzz. It sounded like

It was like a buzz I had never heard before. A lot of the stuff that I'm gonna talk about is like really hard to describe or put into words. I started to hear this buzz and it sounded like, it sounded like if you can imagine a bee with metal wings like fluttering and both like just right next to both of your ears. That's what it sounded like. And I was like, there's no way

You know, and so I plugged my ears because I was like, this has to be the music. I plugged my ears and I all like so I could still hear the music a little bit, obviously, but, you know, got really dubbed down. But that buzzing did not get dubbed down at all. And I could hear so I could hear my tinnitus and I could hear like this metal buzzing and it started really quiet.

And it was also like this sensation too, like a feeling or maybe, I don't know. Basically, you're essentially what's happening is you're entering this higher level of consciousness that you've not experienced before. And you're starting to feel all this energy in your body. And when I felt the, when I started to hear that metallic buzz, it started like,

at the bottom of my spine, like right above my ass, and I could feel it moving up my spinal cord. And as it moved up my spinal cord, it was getting louder. And it wasn't like moving up at like a fast pace. It was like a very slow and steady pace.

And I started getting a little anxious. I was like, oh, man, like, that's okay. This is, we're going in. You know, I'm like, we're going in. And so I wanted to stay in front of the mirror a little bit longer. So I stayed in front of the mirror. And the next thing I saw in the mirror was it was like I was wearing a mask. And so there was like this line that went from like the top right of my face

forehead down to like the bottom left of my chin. And, but it was like a rigid line, almost like if somebody had like a hockey mask and it got cracked in half, you know what I mean? And on this, on the top portion of my head, I saw it was like I am today, except I had hair. And, and on the bottom portion, it was very like weathered.

And it looked like I was, it looked like if you opened a casket a hundred years after somebody died and the skin just started like kind of like coming off. But it wasn't, I wasn't scared. You know what I mean? It wasn't like a horror movie or anything. You could just see like the skin was like coming off and it was white, like that, like white grayish color. And, uh, and I was like, okay, that's enough. Yeah.

So, and by that time, that buzz, it was louder and I could feel that energy, that chill, like it was right at my neckline. And the only kind of way to describe the chill is, it's not like a chill like when you're cold. It's like a chill when you're running a fever.

you're not cold but you have like a chill and that's the chill it's it's basically the same thing but it moves slowly up your spine and so I laid back I put the eye mask on and I looked over I was the last one looking at the mirror and uh I actually wanted to get back up and look at it again later to see if anything else happened and so rewinding real quick

You know, the black tears, there's some different... I googled some of this stuff because I didn't... I think there's a lot of symbolism that's going on. And they basically say that this medicine, Ibogaine, they call it Iboga as well, that Iboga speaks to you in these roundabout ways. And there's a lot of symbolism behind everything. So the black tears had...

something to do with me not really being happy with myself and who I was. And I think that's what that symbolized. And the other thing it could have been was a lot of grief from friends that I lost, from the teams and after the teams. It could have been that. And then my head peeling and mushrooming out of my own head

I think that represented new beginnings. And the mask type thing, I don't know what that was. I'm kind of stumped on that one. But anyways, so I laid back and I could feel it in my neck. And it's like it started, instead of going up my spinal column, it's kind of started to V out like this. And I could feel this chill coming

like go over my entire scalp like this and it just stayed there. This is where I would think most people would have anxiety. You get anxious. Because just hearing this makes me anxious thinking about a buzzing and this feeling coming over through my spine up to my head. So yeah, I could see why having the EKG and everything.

Well, it's funny you mention that because right at that point, Trevor came over to me and you're like 100% with it. It doesn't sound like you're 100% with it, but if you snap out of it or somebody's asking you a question, you're there. It's not like you're intoxicated on booze or sluggish. Nothing. Like you're still sharp.

And he's like, are you okay? And I was like, he's like, I'm just checking on you. Are you doing all right? Do you feel anything? And I think my heart monitor was probably going, do-do-do-do-do. But so I think he was just like making sure like, hey, let's just, how you doing? And I was like, I hear the buzzing. I was like, this shit doesn't sound like tinnitus. And he was like,

that's normal. He's like, don't worry about that. A lot of people hear that. And I was like, I, I feel like this chill over the top of my brain. And he's like, that's fine. And I'm like, I'm doing good. I was like, I'm going to let it take me wherever it needs to take me. I'm just, this is not what I was expecting. Yeah. And, um, and, uh, put the eye mask back on and,

there wasn't like a whole lot of visualizations at this point but there was a lot of sensation and like that chill was real and that buzzing was real and this music was driving me insane and the music would start speeding up and it didn't bother me as much when i was sitting up looking at myself in the mirror but when i laid down it felt like when that wiki music sped up it felt like i was laying flat on a merry-go-round and somebody was spinning me

100 miles an hour. I mean we're talking extreme vertigo. It's like when you've had when you're extremely intoxicated and you get the spins and you start getting nauseous, it's that exact feeling and and then when the music slows down I would still have a little vertigo but it wasn't like I was gonna get nauseous and so I did wind up purging when that it just kept happening, it kept speeding up and finally I did purge

And not that anybody wants to know what it tasted like, but it didn't taste like any vomit that I've ever had before. It was like this metallic flavor and or taste, not flavor. But it was like this metallic taste. It was like horrible. And there's nothing really to, there's not much to come up because you fast all day before this. So there's nothing in your stomach.

And so you're dry heaving a little bit as you're purging. And like I said, they say when you're purging, you're like getting a lot of bad shit up and negative energy, things that you've gone through, whatever. It's all coming up. So I get done doing that, put my eye mask back on, lay back down. I started feeling this stuff like it was like I could feel this medication like seeping into every nerve.

crevice of my brain, like every corner, every crevice going through it, everything you can feel it. And so I think you're tapping into a new level of consciousness that is pretty much impossible to reach for the regular human mind. And, you know, they say what this does is you're able to access a lot more of your brain than you are

in normal consciousness and so so I could feel that happening and Right about that time. I'll put it this way You know if you cut yourself your brain is telling all the cells to run down if you if I cut my wrist, you know my brain is telling all my cells to go to that area and heal that to

coagulate the blood and start to heal the wound, correct? Or if I feel pain, you know, or if I catch a virus, your immune system begins to fight the virus. Digestion, all these kind of things, you kind of become aware of what's actually happening. It's like you're tapping into your subconscious and you're feeling pain.

and kind of in not in control but you're feeling everything that your body's doing that you normally don't ever feel is kind of what i think was happening and so i'm laying back and i start seeing like these visualizations of color and there was a lot of purple a lot of green a lot of like pink magenta type colors but it wasn't like these bright it wasn't like a

it wasn't like i was in a a beatles music video in the 60s or 70s you know it wasn't anything like that it was like almost kind of looked like if you see like a gas in space you know it's like these different colors and it just kind of

moves in these different shapes or if you've ever like taken food coloring and dropped it into a glass of water and you see like it kind of explode like that. It's kind of like that. The shapes are constantly moving and same thing as the mirror. If I tried to focus on any particular shape or color

then it would disappear and it didn't take up like my entire field of view. It was just very specific points and they would kind of move around kind of like an amoeba, if you remember what those are in science, or maybe the shape of like an actual, I think everybody knows what a virus looks like now after COVID. But it's just these really abstract shapes that are just constantly moving.

what I think that was is I think as that medicine was moving through my brain, it was every time it was hitting the receptors, it was like flashing colors. That's kind of what I felt like was going on. And so, um,

Pause there real quick. What this medicine is proven to do is it disrupts your default mode network. And so the human brain, especially as we get older and you develop your ego and your way of thinking, that's why we get more judgmental as we get older. You develop your ego and what you think is right and wrong or what your ego thinks is right and wrong and good and bad and all this other stuff.

What that does is, so it's the back of your brain and the front of your brain. And basically it's sending neurons back and forth from the front of your brain to the back of your brain, the frontal and rear lobe, right? And so what Ibogaine does, and I believe all psychedelics do this somewhat, it basically interrupts that. And so what happens is instead of the neurons traveling back and forth like this consistently, just over and over and over again,

it disrupts that and it forces these neurons to your brain still has to communicate between the front and the back so it's like finding all these new avenues to communicate because they can't just they can't just be lazy and go back and forth from that main the default mode network they have to travel to all the parts of your through all the parts of your brain that you don't normally access so

you're using like so much more of your brain capacity than what we normally use. That's fascinating. Isn't it? Yeah. And so that was going on for a while and I have no idea how long that lasted. And the next thing I saw, and I didn't even really realize these were visualizations until the end, but the next thing that I experienced was

All these memories, I think they were memories, I know they were memories, were going through my head. And when Andy Gallagher was here, he kind of said it was like a film strip and like going through his head. And I kind of thought that was like a figure of speech. That's pretty much what it looks like. So mine, the way mine, the way I saw that was it would be, it looked like a two-lane road.

or just two lines going like this and it was like widescreen TVs and there were movies playing in the TVs and I don't know how long it was but it was like a strip like coming from the back of my head to the front of my head two strips and then disappearing off into the distance all in a straight line so

and it looked like kind of Star Wars credits. You know how they go like this and as they scroll they just start disappearing? That's kind of what it looked like. It was two rows of widescreen movies happening and as they're passing you by, you could kind of see what was going on in each screen. But the exact same thing, you can't... If you try to focus on one particular screen,

they all go away and then it starts over again. And so this, there was a pattern happening here. Every time you try to focus or try to take control of a situation, it takes everything away. And so I was, I was in, I'm under an eye mask. You know what I mean? So this is all like going on in my head. There's not really seeing anything. It's all happening like right here. And

I saw glimpses of stuff that happened in Iraq, but I don't know what it was. And I saw glimpses of stuff that had happened in childhood. I saw glimpses of you and Sonny. The only one that I remember very vividly is our property. And I saw our waterfall several times.

going through my head and I it was like the only thing that I didn't that I could tell immediately what it was without trying to focus on it I could just see it just passing by and I was like oh man that's that's that waterfall that's on our property and um and I must have saw it I don't know how many times maybe three or four times you know pass through

And it just, anything that had anything to do with nature, like, stuck out like a sore thumb. And then the other stuff, like, there was something with my dad that passed by that I didn't, like, get to watch, like, what was going on in that screen, but it was something that had happened a long time ago in childhood, and I'll just always remember that day. But most of the stuff I couldn't really put together. I was just like, I think that was...

that may be something that happened in Baghdad, but I couldn't focus on anything. Otherwise it would all disappear. And so that was going on. And so I think what that was, was kind of the same thing. It was this medicine, like opening up new pathways that hadn't been accessed in years. I mean, they say that you never actually lose your memory. Everything that's happened,

from the day you're born until today, it's all up here. Everything, all of it is up here. And maybe even before you're born, but it's all up here. It's just, you don't have the ability to access it, you know? And so I think what this is doing is as it's moving through your brain and opening up these new pathways, because it can't use the default mode network,

It's accessing all of these memories that you, maybe some of them you have, you know, memories of and then other stuff that you just forgot about, but it's always been there. You know what I mean? And, and just because you forgot about it doesn't mean that you're over whatever happened there or, or maybe just, you know what I mean? It's, it's bringing all this like stuff up and maybe that you,

you've subconsciously blocked out of your mind because it was a traumatic event. Some of it was good stuff, you know, but it was all being, everything was being accessed. I felt like my entire brain was just like lit up. Yeah. And, um, and then I don't know what happened. Like went black and, um, went black for, for, I don't know how long. And I remember, uh,

And I remember all of a sudden the music changed, so I kind of feel like I may have blacked out during the experience, at least through part of it, because I don't remember the weekie music ending and the next thing starting, which was like regular, it was kind of like weird trippy music, stuff that I don't listen to, but it just was kind of, it was different. And I actually have the playlist.

But maybe I'll link that below. But I just remember thinking like, "Oh, what happened to the wiki music?" And I didn't see anything. There was no visualizations, no colors. I still had feeling, you know, a very like overpowering sensation that this stuff was all throughout my body and my veins.

everything and and I could still feel like that chill in my brain and and Kind of feel things moving around up there. I could not feel anything and I got a little bit Paranoid that I was like, oh man, I'll bet when I purged I probably purged up the last pill or two and I probably lost all effect and I'm gonna have to come and do this all over again and also

Like almost immediately when I laid down, I got, I got sweats like the night sweats and dude, my entire, my clothes were completely soaked. My mattress was soaked. My pillow was soaked. The blanket was soaked. Like I was, this stuff is like drawing a lot of bad stuff out of your body. And, and just for the record, I lost 11 pounds in one week.

off of this stuff. So it drew a ton of toxicity out of my body. And I'll tell you how we know it was toxicity later. But so I'm thinking, I'm like, I didn't see anything. I probably purged up the last two pills, but I was like, I was like, all right, just calm down. This is me trying to take control of the situation again and say, hey, nothing's happening. I need to control this. Give me more or whatever.

And, uh, which you don't want more. None of this stuff feels great. You know, it's... Nixon made this stuff illegal in, like, the 70s because he said it was addictive. There's no way in hell this is addictive. Um, because you, I mean, you're nausea... There's no pleasure. No, there's none. You're dealing with stuff that you...

I mean, you gotta be ready to deal with it and you have to, you know, be open to dealing with it. Otherwise, this isn't gonna work. So I was really open. But anyways, this thought popped in my head at that point after I was starting to get a little bit frustrated and I was like, "You know what? My primary intention was actually to be in the moment and maybe I'm not having any visualizations because it wants me to be in the moment."

And so once that thought kind of popped in my head, I don't know, maybe that was a boga, like putting that thought in my head, like, "You're not gonna see anything else until you're in the moment." And so I just laid there and actually thought about nothing, and I was in the moment. And once I kind of let go of that control, and that's an issue that I have, is control.

And I mean, I've structured my entire business so that I can control every access, every, every, I can control every point of my business. And it overwhelmed me. And so it's really hard for me to kind of let go of that control. And once again, I don't know if I really blacked out or not, but then that went on for years.

it seemed like a long time of nothing and um and then the and then i've had a visualization this is kind of trippy and hard to describe but you know how like those horses on a merry-go-round like steadily go up and down and up and down that i wasn't on a merry-go-round but that was like what i was doing i felt like i was floating up and down and to this

music that was playing and I was in this maze with these really weird looking stuffed animals and like dolls and shit like that from like floor to ceiling but you can't see the floor or the ceiling it was just these walls that like seemed infinite of

weird looking stuffed animals and dolls and stuff. And you're just going like this through this like maze and there was walls of this. And, uh, I was, I have no idea what that meant. It, it felt like something out of Alice in Wonderland. It was real. It sounds like it. Like I was, uh, yeah. Like I was in Hunter S. Thompson's head or something, but, but, um, that didn't last very long.

Then I, uh, I don't know if it went black again, but I, but then all of a sudden I remember kind of waking up and I didn't are coming back to maybe. And, uh, I was thinking about you and Sonny, the music was gone and all I could hear was the white noise machines on. And, um,

And at one point in time, I got up, I had to go to the bathroom and they unplug it from the EKG machine. And when you stand up, they're like, look, don't, it seems like you can move fine in your head, but you can't. So take it real slow, baby steps. And so you're like...

stepping like this. Like a shuffle? Yeah, like a... Like if you've ever seen What About Bob and they say baby steps to the bus and it's like, that's how you're walking to the bathroom and they're holding. And you're so... You have vertigo and you're shaking. I mean, you can't even... You can't even like stand there by yourself and pee barely. And you get help, go back. And then I purged again at some point after that.

But anyways, I'm thinking about you and Sonny. Started thinking about my parents, my brother and my sister. Like a lot of family stuff. But good. All good. It was more like I was just wondering what you guys were doing and remembering good things. And that lasted for a little bit. And then the...

The like the last thing that I was thinking about which I didn't want to think about it and I know this came from a prior conversation was was China building all these cities and Africa and we had a discussion about how they're building all these villages and cities and all over Africa and basically taking over the continent and

Which is actually happening and that's kind of a fear of mine. And so I was thinking about that, but I didn't want to think about that. I was like, I'm not here to think about China's long game. And then it left. Like I thought about it for a little bit and I had these visualizations of like me going through Chinatown in the middle of Africa and these villages that are all...

China, Chinese. And once I like made the decision, like, I'm not thinking about this right now. This isn't why I'm here. It was gone. And it was back to family. And I'd taken my sleep mask off and I could see the light shining through the blackout shades. And I was like, oh man, I was like, it's morning already. And

I wish I would have taken my watch off, but I had it on. I looked at my watch and it was like eight something in the morning. Wow. I thought that this maybe a couple hours had gone by. That's 12 hours. Yeah. And so you feel like horrible. Like you feel horrible. You can't walk. I'm still nauseous. I'm completely soaked because I've been sweating all night. And so I just...

I just like laid down and tried to go to sleep, but this medicine keeps you up. You're not going to sleep. And so I looked over, Marcus had actually already gone. And then the other guy was still laying there and he was just kind of, but he didn't, he looked fine. And I was like, I remember asking him, I was like, do you, do you feel as bad as I do right now? And he's like, it'll start to wear off. And, and I was like, okay.

And I just, I was like, man, I can't even move. Like, I don't even want to move my arm. I feel like if I move anything, I'm going to vomit again. And so I just laid there with my eye mask on.

Woke up again, or like not woke up because you can't sleep, but no more visualizations at this point. It's just pure misery. And I lift up my eye mask and look at my watch again. It's 1230 p.m. Oh, my gosh. And this dude, the other guy that was next to me, he's gone now. And nobody else is in the room except like this poor paramedic who's on medication.

who's on watch, you know, because they can't leave until everybody's out of the room. And I felt like bad for him. I was like, man, I could be in here for another 48 hours. I don't know, you know, like I'm not going anywhere. And I was but I had to go to the bathroom. So he held me up, walked me to the bathroom, laid back down. I was like, man, I can't go to my room. And so he ran me an IV and

I think they ran everybody an IV when they were getting ready to leave to go back to their actual room. But ran me an IV, gave me a little bit of anti-nausea venison through the IV, which actually helped. And it took... I think it took two guys to get me to my room, if I remember right. I mean, you're...

Not feeling great and and I had to go down two flights of stairs. Oh my goodness Yeah to get to my room. So I went to my room and Laid down and they had people checking on me like seemed like every 30 minutes and I was just laying in my beds Sweat started up again immediately. My bed was soaked and

well ask him if i want anything to eat do you want anything to eat no do you want any soup no do you want any broth no there's nothing i'm going to be able to hold down i feel horrible they're like don't worry it's gonna start to wear off soon i think i was there for another four hours oh my goodness yeah and finally uh in during that four hours the i

Was having those visualizations again that I said were like the kind of like the amoeba colors the amoebas moving through and and Same colors. It was like green magenta pink there was some blue actually this time and and If I would open my eyes and look at the wall I could see like this is crazy, but I feel like I could like see the energy and

in the wall, like flickering, kind of moving around. And, um, but nothing like it was, that was, it was pretty tame. It wasn't anything like my head peeling back or anything. And, um, so I got up, I had to go to the bathroom, went to the bathroom, looked at myself in the mirror. And first thing I wanted to look at was my eyes. I was expecting my pupils to be like super dilated and they weren't.

But I felt like my eyes were different. And I was like, I don't know. I was like, what is going on with my eyes? And I wrote this down in my journal, by the way. And looking at my eyes, and I'm like, something's different. I don't know if they're... I think they might be darker, but I'm not sure. But something is definitely different with my eyes. And then I took a shower, went upstairs. They asked me if I wanted anything to eat. I was like, absolutely not. And...

I just wanted to go outside. So I just went outside. I was like, I just want to get some fresh air. Went outside, sat there, was looking out at the ocean, not thinking about anything. And I sat there for two and a half hours. I haven't been able to sit with myself for 17 years, at least, at a minimum. It's been 17 years since I left the SEAL teams.

Haven't been able to sit with myself at least since I left the SEAL teams and just be by myself and think about nothing. My head wasn't racing anymore. It wasn't all about anger and anxiety and things that had happened in business and... Current events. Current events. And none of that was there. It was just... I was just there in the moment. And I realized I was like...

Holy shit, like my primary intention, like it happened. I'm here sitting by myself, not talking, not thinking about things, just here enjoying this moment. I sat there for two and a half hours. I couldn't sit there for two minutes before. Yeah. And as I was looking out at the ocean, I started seeing these, it looked like cells popping

Like cells, like in your body. Cells. But they were translucent. Almost like floaties in your eyes. Do you have floaties? I've had them before. Are they translucent, like weird little shapes? Yeah, like a blur. I've had like a little blur thing. Like little bubbles and stuff, maybe? That's what this was like. Okay. And so it looked like if you look at a microscope and you see all these cells moving around real fast. And there was just...

thousands of them just moving around all over the place and I I feel like it was like all these cells that are regenerated and it was being projected from the back of my eye to the front of my eye like I was looking through like a filter also I also think that my vision actually improved because things and distance at distance seemed a lot crisper but I would look at something else and

I couldn't really see the cells, but if I looked over the horizon and it was like a constant color, like if I looked at something and it was busy and there was a lot going on, like grass or flowers or buildings or whatever, I couldn't see it. But if I looked at something that was like a consistent color, like the ocean or the sky, I could see it, all these little things just moving around all over the place. But they were very faint and like I said, they were, actually they weren't even,

They weren't even translucent. They were like transparent. And all that you could see is little like outlines of things. And then, and so what I think that was, is this medicine, I believe is proven to regenerate cells in your brain. Neurogenesis. It replenishes your brain. It replenishes the receptors and it promotes brain growth and regeneration of cells and

I think I was seeing that be projected into the front of my eye. And then the... And at that point, somebody had come out and I had mentioned... I said, do you guys see this? Or is it just me? And they saw it too. And one of them did. And I was like, okay. And so...

I closed my eyes. I just didn't want to leave being outside. It just felt so good to be there not thinking about anything and just being there in the moment that I didn't want to leave. And I just closed my eyes and I saw this was weird. I don't know what this meant. I don't know why I saw it, but it was like a 1980s video game graphic. It almost looked like if Sonic the Hedgehog was developed on Atari.

back in the 80s. That's kind of what it looked like, but it was this little red, like, circle with stick arms and stick legs. And it, like, walked out of the corner of my eye, stopped, like, dead center of my vision, turned, waved at me, put its arm back down, turned, and then walked right back out the corner of my eye. And I was like...

what the hell was that? That's like the only thing that I saw that I was just like, what? And I don't know what that was. So like I said, I still felt like crap.

So I went down to my room and I was like, all right, I'm going to go to bed for the night. And it was really early. And I remember closing my eyes and like those little energy shapes or amoebas were there again. And then I saw perfect grid lines, which I don't know what that is, but I wrote it down in here. But I saw like, it was, yeah, it was like these perfect, it was these perfect grid lines. And they were like this,

deep blue but very vibrant and I don't I don't know if that meant anything but it just covered my the entire inside of my eyelids yeah like like graph paper just like and and then I just saw my notes something I forgot to say was your teeth are chattering during this whole experience when the Ibogaine kicks in your teeth are like not like real bad but they're like they're chattering and and

Yeah, that was, they call that the gray day, the day after you take the Ibogaine, they call it the gray day. So that was the Ibogaine experience, which is incredible. Then you had the gray day. And then what came next after that? So gray day is Wednesday. They do, they all, like I said, they're still taking blood pressure and all this stuff and making sure everything's okay, monitoring your medical and everything.

Then Thursday comes around. I felt a lot better. I woke up feeling I had a little bit of a headache still They had run like several IVs but all in all I felt really good and I was like really excited to go back outside and you just kind of want to like be outside and just have like this urge and anyways

So Thursday afternoon, they say we're going to do this 5-MeO-DMT. That's 5-Mike-Echo-Oscar-DMT. And I didn't really think much of it because I said it only lasts for about 10 to 15 minutes. They start talking about how you're going to experience death. I've never been really scared to die on the battlefield before.

I just I always kind of considered myself already dead like when Tim asked how do you deal with like the anxiousness and stuff going down to Mexico you know when we were going to do that uh stuff that cartel series I was like you're not going to like the answer to this and and he was like well you know how did you do it and I said I already considered myself dead before we ever even went on the mission so the only

Decision left to make is how am I gonna die? Am I gonna die as a coward? Am I gonna die? fighting and he was like Not what he wanted to hear. Yeah, and it wasn't like that with this though You know what I mean be it was I didn't I wasn't like that fearless guy when they said you're gonna experience death I started getting like real anxious and

And real nervous. Well, when I was at home, before you left, I took a picture of your itinerary. And so I was, you know, our communication was limited. So I was checking the itinerary and I saw this 5-MeO-DMT and it was like between your, it was like after your lunch, something like, it just seemed like nothing on the schedule of events. But I Googled it and it was like,

Frog venom it's from a toe toad venom. Yeah toad venom toad venom. So if you like irritate this Specific type of toad then this venom comes out and that's what it is so that like slang they kind of like if they say oh you're gonna lick the toad and

Anyway, so they sit us down and they have us watch a couple of documentaries, like mini-docs. And one of them is, I don't know if he's a shaman or a psychedelic healer or what the title is. I've got to ask Trevor what the title is. But they have us watch one mini-documentary, and it's this guy that administers 5-MeO-DMT to all kinds of people.

And he administered it to like Mike Tyson and some big names and whatever, right? And so we're watching this. He spouts off this fact and I'll never forget it. He said that 92.6% of the people that he has administered 5-MeO-DMT to no longer have a fear of death. Wow. And because you experience death.

and you know what it's gonna be like. And I just started getting nervous. - Yeah. - And they started showing people that were doing it, and it didn't look fun to me, but basically you smoke it and you put your arms out and you're sitting up and you fall backwards and it's like you're out. And they had the eye masks on, I believe. You're supposed to wear an eye mask, or a lot of people wear an eye mask with this.

and so i'm watching that and i'm like kind of looking at the other guys and i'm like you guys look like good with this and so then we watched uh mike tyson did an interview with tony robbins on his podcast and tony robbins went and did five meo dmt down in brazil and he explains it and

He said that the one thing that he has never been able to do is talk to people that are dying, like cancer patients or people that are getting ready to die. He just never was able to kind of overcome being able to talk to people before they die and let them know it's going to be okay or whatever Tony Robbins does. He just wouldn't even take that on. So he...

did research and found this 5-MeO DMT, went down to Brazil, did it, like the ceremonial stuff. And now he has zero problem talking to people that are dying, that are gonna die of cancer or anybody that's getting ready to die or family that's died or all that stuff. He's like, "I have absolutely no problem doing that now." - That's amazing. - Isn't it? - Yeah. - And it was a very interesting interview.

And after we watched those, we went up and we had kind of like a group circle. We're sitting there talking about how it's going to work. And Trevor's saying, hey, we can do it up here in this room. Or you can do it outside if you want. Sometimes people yell at the top of their lungs. Sometimes people scream. And I'm like, whoa, why would they be screaming? And...

So I just raised my hand and I was like, "I don't know if I'm the only one, but I'm feeling extremely anxious about this right now and I am very nervous." And he's like, "Well, that's completely normal and the other guys have already done this." And I'm like, "Are you guys nervous?" And both of them were like, "I've done this before and I'm nervous again." And I'm like, "Oh man."

So is this something that they don't need to have you hooked up to EKGs for? No, they did. No, they didn't have us hooked up to anything for this one, but they did still have a full med staff on station, which made me comfortable on one hand. And on the other hand, I'm like, why is there all these medical people here? And, uh, but he's kind of telling us how it's going to work. And I'm

He's like, you can either do it outside, you can do it outside. Some people scream, some people get up, some, you know, we got a full med staff, everything's gonna be fine. They call this the bliss drug. Like everything's gonna be fine. And so the way it's described is like, you're gonna get this major wave of anxiety, like anxiety like you've never felt. - Oh my gosh.

And then it's going to release and everything's going to change. And it's going to be very euphoric. This is all after you smoke it? Yeah. And he's telling us how to do it. And he says, all right, so basically what you want to do is you want to basically do a slow 20 to 30 second inhale. Hold your breath for I can't remember how long. And then exhale. And by the time you're exhaling, your arms need to be out like this.

and you just start counting backwards. I'm like, "Alright, well that sounds easy." And you're laying down? Like you're on the ground? Once you fall back. So you're sitting up, you smoke it, you start doing your countdown with your arms out and you fall back. Okay. And I'm like, "Alright, sounds easy enough." But I'm nervous, like real nervous. And so I... What were you nervous about? That you thought you were gonna die?

I didn't do any research on 5-MeO-DMT because everybody has talked about the Ibogaine and how powerful the Ibogaine is and how it's curing addiction and how powerful it is that I didn't even take the time to research the 5-MeO-DMT. And so when they're telling me I'm going to experience death, that hit me like a ton of bricks. I'm like, oh, wow.

I'm going to what? You know? And so I'm like, well, I would like to do it outside. I've always heard, you know, that this... I liked being outside after Ibogaine. It made me feel good being out there and thinking about nothing. So I was like, I want to go. I just want to do it outside. And the other two had never done it outside, if I remember correctly. So they were like, yeah, I'll do it outside. So they...

I'm like, "All right, we're gonna go set up." So I set up to put a blanket out on the grass, put a pillow out so when you fall back, you don't hit your head on anything. And they said, "Bring an eye mask out if you wanna wear it. You can wear your sleep mask if you don't wanna wear it. That's fine too." Beautiful day out. It was probably around 70 degrees, sunny, fresh air. - Middle of the day? - Yeah, I think it was about two. I think it was like two or three in the afternoon.

And so I go out and they have like the medical staff is like in a half moon circle behind you. So I'm facing this way. Trevor's right here. He's basically the only person I can see. And then the medical staff is behind me. And I saw they had like a bag valve mask. So if something happens, they're going to bag me. And I'm like, oh, shit. And so I didn't know. I was like, holy shit. Can like...

can you OD on this stuff? Or, you know, like what's, what's going to happen? Right. You know, what are the, what are the possibilities? Yeah. You know, what are the, what are the repercussions if I get too much of this or I don't come out of it? And, and I didn't, and I didn't want to go Google it real quick. You know what I mean? Cause no, you know how that, yeah. Yeah.

And so I was just like, all right. And they just kept saying, like, just like the Ibogaine, you have to trust the medicine. Let it do, let it take you where it's going to take you. Deal with whatever it puts in front of you, whether it's a visualization, whether it's some type of an emotion or intuition, whatever it is, allow it to do what it needs to do. I'm like, all right. I mean, this stuff like takes a lot of courage. I'm not going to lie.

and at least for me it did. And so I go out, I'm first one. And I didn't know how I was like, should I go first? Should I not go first? I really don't want to see Marcus Capone screaming, going ape shit before I go do the exact same thing because he's a big dude. You know, he's like almost seven foot tall. And I'm like, man, I don't,

All right, I'm going. You know what I mean? I was like, I'll go first because if I see somebody else, it might freak me out even more. So I go and I'm like sitting there and I'm like looking at Trevor and he's like, are you ready? And I'm like, man, I'm like, I'm like real nervous, man. And he's like, it's fine. He's like, it's going to be fine. Just trust the medicine. Everything's going to be fine. And so we did this. So you're supposed to do it three times and everything.

They call it a handshake. And he's like, I can give you like the full thing all at once or I can do a handshake. And what the handshake is, is it's kind of like the first one's like a handshake. Like, hey, I'm getting to know you. I'm just going to give you a little bit. And then the second one, I'll give you a little bit more. And then the third one is like the most powerful dose. And I was like, I'll take the handshake method. And so we're sitting there.

And I do it. You know, I do like a long 20 to 30 second inhale. Put my arms out. He's like, hold your breath. Start to count backwards from 10. As soon as I started counting, I had my eyes closed. All these colors, like it was like this explosion of color, like a kaleidoscope of red, magenta, pink, orange, yellow. And it was just like...

Like, that's all I could see were all these colors. And it was like in a, it was like a kaleidoscope. It just, my eyelids were just an explosion of color. I started counting backwards from 10. I don't know if I even hit seven. And I was like, boom, you know, hit the pillow, closed my eyes, still had my eyes closed, I guess. And man, it was, it was the most anxiety ever.

I had ever felt and probably and the most fear I had ever felt in my entire life. And I don't know exactly what my mind was dealing with at that particular moment in time, but I knew it was dealing with a lot of negativity and a lot of stuff. And I just started yelling at the top of my lungs. I was like, go in there.

Go in there. Get in. I mean, yelling, screaming it. And like, I feel like I'd never yelled like that before in my life. Like it was, it was intense. In my, you know, when you get like a muscle spasm in like a very like pinpointed part of your body. I felt like I had like 50 muscle spasms.

going all over my body at once and I was my like all of them were like shaking it wasn't like a spasm though it was like you know what it felt it was like when you put the tens unit like for my back yeah you know when you put the tens unit on me and like my you can see my back muscles start like doing all these things yeah and contorting my body

That's what it felt like but all these little pinpointed places all over my body and I could really feel it the most in my back and like right here in my glutes which come to find out that's and in my neck which is areas that you hold a ton of stress and that was just shaking and

And I was, like I said, I yelled, I think, two or three times, like, as loud as, I was like, get in there! Like, I was telling myself, like, deal with this. Like, this is in front of you. You're going to deal with it right now. But you don't know what it was. No, it's like, it's very, it's a feeling, it's an intuition. It's, I don't know what it was. I can't pinpoint it. I just know it felt...

Like a ton, like all of the bad shit that has happened to me, all the anxiety, all the negative energy, everything was just, it felt like it was getting sucked out of my body. And, and I could, it felt like things were going like light speed, fast.

like through my, it felt like it was going through my veins, you know, and then exiting through my fingers. 'Cause I remember my hands opened up like that, like this, and I could just feel like all this flowing right out. Same with my toes, it was coming out of my toes. And it was just, there was no visualizations at all. Like the color was gone, it was black,

And it was just, it took me to like my most vulnerable point I'd ever been in. And then I had, this wasn't a visualization either. This is more of like another intuitive feeling. I felt like there was like this black tar or like goop or something on my heart and on my heart and like my major arteries. And it felt like this like goo,

or tar or whatever, like was dripping off. And then like, and it was a full, like I was, I was 100% like letting this do what it needed to do. There was, I wasn't fighting it. I was like trying to coach myself and encourage myself to, to deal with whatever this was. And, um, and there's like, when you felt that last drop come off your heart, um,

off of my heart it it felt like it had sucked it felt like first it had sucked all the bad stuff out of me like negative energy traumatic events all that felt like it was like sucked out of my body it like an extremely fast pace then then the tar came off and that felt like it was my ego i it's so hard to describe it's ineffable and it felt like my ego

was now being sucked out of me. Like I no longer cared about anything. And then I felt, it's like I felt my soul rise out of my chest and it just kept rising. And the, nobody knows this but I'm gonna say it, but the only feeling that I ever have felt that was even somewhat similar to this was when I used to live in Columbia, I overdosed on cocaine.

And all I remember was not being in my body, but like I was in, I wasn't like I was down looking at myself, but I remember not feeling like I was in my body. And I looked up and these people were like trying to get me to drink water and like waking me up and all this other shit. And that is the, but it was like this, that, my cocaine overdose felt like

a small fraction of what was happening right here, right now. And once my ego got sucked out of me, it was like the most amazing feeling in the world. The most. And like I said, there was a lot of anxiety right before that and more than I had ever felt and way more than I had ever felt. And they brought in like this

person to teach us breath breathing techniques before we did the Ibogaine and I remembered the breathing techniques and I slowed my breathing down in my nose out my mouth and it's like right about almost simultaneously when I thought about the breathing techniques that's when my I felt like my soul was coming out of like just it felt like my body was melting into the earth and my spirit or my energy or whatever you want to call it was like rising above me and so

I opened my eyes and I was under a palm tree. I remember seeing palm tree leaves, these birds flew over and I just remember the first thing I thought was I was like, I can't believe how blue the sky is right now. And actually the first thing I thought was when I started those breathing techniques, it felt like my breath turned into the earth breathing. And also at the exact same time,

This sounds weird and, you know, whatever. Like, if you don't have an open mind, you're not listening anymore anyways. But it, I swear, I felt and heard the Earth's vibration. The Earth has a vibration. I don't care what anybody says. I felt that. I heard it. And it was like the most beautiful thing I had ever heard in my life. It was the most beautiful feeling I had ever felt in my life.

And I swear it was God. Or, but it wasn't like you're meeting somebody. There was no visualization. What I saw was there. You know what I mean? It was the exact same stuff that I saw before I closed my eyes and fell backwards. You know, but I was looking up. And it was just this overwhelming feeling of peace and welcomeness and love.

zero judgment, like zero judgment. And you didn't want to leave. And I thought about you and Sunny. And while I was in that state of mind, I was telling myself, I was like, let it go. Everything's going to be fine. I was saying, my wife, Sunny, let everything go. Let it go. And every time I said that,

said it, it like felt better. And it takes you to this state of mind where you, this kind of maybe sounds a little bit weird, but it was like, okay, like I wasn't, I, it was okay that I was going somewhere that you feel like you're going somewhere and you're not coming back and where you're going is perfect and you don't want to come back and it's okay. It was, it

Saying it now, it sounds selfish, but I wasn't, it was okay that I was leaving you and Sunny behind. And then I kind of forgot about everybody and everything, all of it. I just, it just, everything going on up here is gone. And it's heaven. And I felt, this is a handshake dose. And I remember sitting up

and I could still hear and feel the Earth's vibration. I think this is actually like, I think at that point I had hit the peak of the medicine and I sat up and I remember looking, I saw the ocean, I saw everything that I saw before. I fell backwards, but every you, for the first time in my life, I realized that every single thing on this planet is connected through this energy, through this

Earth's vibration or the vibration of the universe. And you could... Everything made perfect sense. Everything was perfect. Everything was beautiful. Everything was in perfect unity. And it was just this flow of energy that you could... It's not like you could see it, but you could see it. You could feel it. You could feel your energy going into the grass, going into the earth. You could feel the ocean. You could feel the air. You could...

feel the energy of Trevor next to me, the palm tree, the bushes, everything. Everything out there is 100% interconnected. It is all, for the first time you see it, it's like, and it's immediate. You're like, oh man, like I've had it wrong. Everything on this earth is connected through this energy. The entire universe is connected. And...

Trevor asked me if I wanted a little bit more and and I said done I said I'm really good where I'm at I don't I don't need any more right now, and I just wanted to like live out this experience Because everything it was just I remember a bug Was oh and then also when I came when I opened my eyes the first thing I wanted the first thing I did was move the blanket so that I could touch the grass and

And then I got off, when I sat up, I crawled off the blanket. I just wanted to be in the grass, feel the grass. And like the minute you put your hand on it, you feel like this energy come out of your hand. It goes into the ground and it's everything. Everything is one thing. And I was crying and I was laughing. And it was like, it was a happy cry though. And, um,

And then I came down and I said, "Okay, I'm ready to do it again." And he was like, "You sure?" And I was like, "Yeah." - Were you nervous again? - I was nervous again, but I knew there was more. And it's not, you don't know what else there is, but you know that there's more. And it wasn't like I wanted to go through it again. I felt like there was more that I had to deal with, whatever that is.

I felt like I had to deal with it. And he said, "All right, well, let's move back." And I was like, "I want to do it here." And I was like, "Is that all right?" And he's like, "Yeah." And he's like, "All right, move the blanket up." And I was like, "I don't want the blanket." He's like, "Bring the pillow." And I was like, "I don't want the pillow. I just want to be on top of nature." And he's like, "Okay." And I was like, "Actually, can I do it up there?" Because up there was like, you're kind of, you're not on a cliff, but you're on a steep hill.

And he's like, "Ah, that's kind of close to the cliff thing." And I was like, "All right, well, can we move those benches out of the way?" I didn't want anything man-made in my field of view at all. Nothing. All I wanted to see was just... - Earth. - Earth. So they moved the benches out, same exact thing.

deep inhale hold 30 seconds colors came back fell back anxiety goes through the roof again a lot of fear again almost the exact same thing i don't feel like i was shaken quite as bad uh with all the muscle spasms but it was they were definitely there and it all happened all over again except it felt when i came out of it it felt even more powerful and

And I felt like I could feel the energy of the universe even more. And it was just so overpowering. And the next thing that happened is I had this intuition. There were no visualizations. It was all intuition. I had this intuition that Gabe was like right there. And I started crying and crying.

I just started saying Gabe's name and I was like, "Gabe." I was like, "Gabe." And I just started crawling towards the something. But there was nothing there. It was just a presence that I felt with my own intuition. Like an energy that was literally just steps away from me. I crawled towards it and I just knew that he was there. And everything was fine.

And I was happy for him that he was in this space. And then I started, and then that presence kind of faded away and I started looking around again and I could, once again, I just, my breath turned into everything. Just, it's all one thing. We are all one thing. And I remember digging my hands into the like blades of grass and I was, and I saw this bug like moving around.

And you know, normally I would have like smashed that bug and killed it. And I was like, how can anybody like kill anything? Like what is that? All of this is perfect. It's exactly the way it's supposed to be. And I was like crying and I was happy and I looked over at Trevor and I'm not gonna say it right now because I, but I admitted something to him, told him about,

Something that I felt very guilty about, about my service record in the SEAL teams. And then, and I just like told them this thing that I'd told one person in my entire life. And that was my doctor that I spent three and a half years in therapy with. And I never even told her when I was in therapy. I told her when we went back to Boca Raton to visit family and we went out to lunch and I told her then, like,

three years after I stopped doing three and a half years of therapy and I told Trevor who I'd known for four days and he asked me how it felt to say that and I said it felt I said it feels fucking amazing and I started crying and I was happy and and then I started coming down but I was I was just I

At complete peace, my ego had been completely sucked out of my body. And I knew what it was like to die. And it was, like I said, it was similar to when I overdosed on cocaine, but beautiful. When I overdosed on cocaine, I was thinking, this is great. You know, I'm going to die here on this piece of shit floor in Columbia. My parents are going to

be like, "Yeah, that's my son. He overdosed on cocaine in Colombia. Nobody found him for six months." And this was totally different. This was like I was dying, but I didn't care about anything, nothing. And the one thing I did feel, I felt the one thing I was not ready for, and this is during the bliss, it wasn't even during the anxiety before you felt the bliss, was I felt like there was farther I could go

in that feeling or in that state of consciousness. But I didn't want to come back. But the only thing that was holding me from going farther into that state of consciousness was I felt like you and Sonny needed me here. And if I went any farther, I didn't

feel like I was going to come back. And so I stopped myself from going there. And as, and when I did come down, Trevor asked if he's like, do you want to do the third one? And I said, you know, I said, I'm, I'm really, um, I'm really thankful and I'm comfortable with, with what I just experienced and I want to do it again. But I said, I'm not, I'm not ready to do that right now. And, uh, I was, I just said, I'm, I want to

if it's okay, I would like to come back when I'm ready. And he said, yeah, that's why they call it a journey. And then I went over and I told Marcus that same thing. And then he shared something with me. And then I just said, you know, I was like, I only have like one question left. And

I said, "I don't understand where evil even comes from. After what I just saw, I don't even know how it exists." And I said, "If there were evil or bad energy that walked into my field of view at that specific moment in time, at that level of consciousness that I felt, it would have stuck out like a sore thumb. It would have been

Like, it would have stuck out so much that if I was in a black room and there was a spotlight on something, it would have stuck out that much. I mean, you just felt everything on Earth at that moment in time that is in your field of view and even out, which is, like I said, this is very intuitive type, new level of consciousness. And everybody kind of was like, man, that's...

That's a good question. So what that does is it basically, the 5-MeO DMT, it takes you to the most vulnerable state that you've ever been in. And if you allow it to keep going and you really give yourself up, then it rewards you. What does that sound like? Sounds like the Bible, right? Jesus' teachings or something.

And that's exactly what that was. And that was my experience. That's amazing, babe. So I know there's still more to go. I'm going to do it again. Everybody, everybody in the world needs to experience that. It was the most euphoric, the most life-changing, the most life-changing experience I've ever felt. And...

So now everybody's probably wondering, you know, what did you get out of it? You know, other than an extreme high and experiencing the universe's energy, which half the people are probably like, oh, yeah, whatever. I don't care. I don't care anymore about what anybody thinks. And so here's what I got out of it. You know, after being home for a week today,

I have zero anxiety. I don't get anxious around people. I don't get anxious in traffic. I don't get anxious on the plane. I have zero anxiety. All of my anger is gone. I'm 100% in the moment when I'm talking to you.

I'm 100% in the moment when I'm talking to Sonny or when I'm playing with Sonny. And you can attest to that, how he's doing things that he's never done with me because I have something different about me. A new energy. That's all gone. I didn't... I'm pretty sure we've been talking for about two hours now. I haven't forgotten what I'm talking about one time. I did...

two and a half hour live last night on Patreon. I didn't forget what I was talking about one time. I did a 90 or 50 minute video edit on the Mexico migrant camp with a speech in between. Didn't forget what I was saying one time. I haven't forgotten what I'm talking about mid-sentence since I've gotten done with this. Since this experience. So whatever...

TBI damage was making that happen and I do believe it was TBI that is gone That is fixed. I've had 11 pounds sucked out of me I had the night sweats every night for a week and you felt that yeah, you know when I came home I have and I'm not making it a point to stop drinking or anything. I'm not making it a point to

This is taking zero effort. There's no craving. I haven't had one drink in over two weeks. I don't miss it. I don't crave it. It's taking zero effort. I don't want it. I keep, and I'm not making it a point. If I want to take a drink again, I'm going to take a drink. But I don't want to. Not only that, I haven't smoked marijuana. I haven't taken Adderall.

I haven't taken any sleep medications. I haven't taken any of my heartburn medications from whatever's going on with my esophagus. I haven't had any sugar or maybe I've had sugar, but I haven't, I have a sweet tooth, you know that? I haven't had any, I have no craving for candy, nothing.

Haven't had any candy or sweets in over two weeks. I haven't had any potato chips any French fries. I don't have any carb cravings You know in over two weeks and I keep waiting for all this stuff to come back and it's not coming back None of those cravings are coming back or coffee. I haven't had yeah coffee forgot about that I haven't had coffee in over two weeks No caffeine

No soda, nothing. Not even sports drinks like Gatorade or what's that stuff we drink? - Body armor. - Body armor, nothing. Nothing, no cookies, nothing. Not one thing. I'm eating, I'm not overeating. - Yeah, we're barely having dinner. - Yeah, we're not even having dinner anymore. We're doing a late lunch and that's it. And I don't even crave food until I'm up in the morning. But I'm more productive than I've ever been in my entire life.

I'm not even, we're not even supposed to be working right now. I'm supposed to be letting this sink in, but I'm actually enjoying work. I'm enjoying every, all of it. I'm able to delegate. We came in, was Tuesday the first day back in? Yeah. We did four hours. I did four hours of work and I got more done in that four hours than I think I have in six years of business. I mean, a day. Yeah. Not like six years of business, but I was more productive. Yeah.

that day than I have been any other day in six years of being in business. Then we came in the next day and it was a full day. And I feel like I got like a week's worth of work done in one day. Because you probably did. It's insane what this has done. I don't get anxious in traffic. I don't get pissed in traffic. I don't care. I'm not judgmental anymore. I see people

Coming into work, I see people in the grocery store that normally I would judge. I see, you know, I'm not watching TV, but the few times we have watched TV, I'm not judgmental. I don't care about politics. Like, I know that shit doesn't even matter. I don't care. You know, it doesn't affect me anymore. I'm not comparing myself to my competitors. My resentment's gone.

I don't care what people think of me. It took... Let's put this in perspective. This used to be a gun reviewing channel. It took me two years to phase out of gun reviews.

Two years of guns and tactics. I was so tired of reviewing guns and teaching tactics online. I couldn't stand it. But I was so worried about what's my audience going to do? They're going to leave. They're going to. It took me two years to transition into this show.

and completely leave that stuff behind. And then same with Patreon. It was all guns and tactics and stuff, and there's nothing wrong with that. But it wasn't me. I was done. That's another life for me. But I was still giving Patreon guns and tactics all the time, even after I quit on YouTube. And then I just stopped that less than a year ago. Now, and what's the latest goal? The latest goal has been...

I don't want to just interview operators anymore and tell war stories. Yes, that's important, but I need to keep it fresh. And we've had conversation after conversation after conversation about, well, if I quit interviewing SEALs and Green Berets and

and cartel stuff, then nobody's going to watch anymore. I don't care. You know what? If they don't want to watch, I don't give a shit. I don't care. I'm going to do what I want to do. And I feel like my entire life has been revealed and fallen into perfect place right before my eyes. We had a 50% gain in our Patreon prescriptions in two weeks. It was stagnant.

for a year. And we just grew it by 50% in two weeks. Two weeks. And I don't care. I'm going to do what I want to do. I'm having Trevor on the show in April. If you would have told me two weeks ago, I was going to have a psychedelic healer on this show, I would have looked at you like you were absolutely insane. He's coming and I can't wait to interview him. And we have all kinds of

new types of guests that are coming on the show and it's gonna be amazing and it's gonna be perfect and if people don't like it I do not care they can go somewhere else I don't care and I'm gonna do what I want to do and what that means is my ego is gone it was sucked out of me and I'm not worried about what other people think I don't care if they judge me I do not care I

At all. And so the sensation you get out of that is pure freedom. You're not controlled by the news. You're not controlled by politics. You're not controlled by anything that you can't control. For the first time in my life, I realized that I can't control what people think of me and I don't care. I'm just going to be myself. And if they don't like that,

Bye. Don't care. I don't even care about Instagram anymore. You know, it was, let's do a post. Let's do this. Let's do that. I got a post on Instagram. I don't give a shit about Instagram. I don't give a shit how many views this video gets. I don't give a shit about how many views my last Sean Ryan show gets. I don't care if they censor me.

Don't care at all. I can't control any of that shit. I'm just being me and doing what I think is right and bringing truth to the people that I want to bring truth to. And it's been amazing. I know. Tell them about my eyes. Oh, yeah. Going back to that, they're lighter. That's the first thing I noticed. The color. Yeah.

You said the whites of my eyes are whiter and the brown in my eyes is browner and the edges are... It's a different color, babe, altogether. That's how much toxic shit... I'm not even saying the word fuck very often anymore. I think I said it one other time in probably two hours of talking right now. It used to be every other word. I did it...

Last night, too, when I did my Patreon live, it was a two and a half hour live. And you didn't say it. I said it one time. And I said, that's the first time I've said this in like an hour and a half. And everybody was like, we all noticed it. And it's been great. It has been great. Like right now, Russia is invading Ukraine and the United States is doing absolutely nothing about it.

And there's nothing I can do about that. I'm not going to let it affect my day. There's nothing I can do. I can report on it without it affecting my day. I can read about it without it affecting my day. And, you know, we just released that Peter Schweitzer interview about how China is invested in

our entire political system, there's nothing I can do about that. That would ruin my day, ruin my week when I was reading that stuff and researching that. That was only two weeks ago. There's nothing I can do about it. So why let it affect my day? I started meditating. I never meditated. You never took a minute for yourself ever since I've known you. Yeah. So the fact that you're getting up, starting your day for yourself, you know, having that...

Hour so just you you know, I stay in bed Sonny's asleep. That's that's huge. That's what I've wanted for you for so long. I'm sleeping Yeah, you're sleeping with out any drugs or alcohol Yeah, and you're dreaming. I'm dreaming. I haven't dreamt and very few dreams and years and The dreams I did have were not good. No, you know that I

And you know, the other thing is, you know, I get a lot of texts and a lot of people reaching out and a lot of acquaintances. And I was always so, I like felt this guilt all the time. Like, oh, I didn't call so-and-so back. Oh, I didn't help so-and-so. I didn't do this. I didn't, I don't care anymore. Like,

I'm still going to help people, but I don't feel that guilt when I come home and I have 25 text messages that I need to answer about people that I haven't talked to in years. I don't feel that guilt anymore. This is my time with my family, and you can wait. And I don't feel guilty having to say that anymore. Good. I've been able to delegate jobs. I mean, I was a control freak. And that's another thing that I think with the Ibogaine, I said—

I said with the 5-MeO DMT, if you allow it to do what it needs to do and you let it take you to the most vulnerable point you've ever been in in your entire life, it will reward you. I think with the Ibogaine, if you let the Ibogaine take control and you relinquish all the control, it's weird. By giving up all of the control, you regain control of what matters in your life.

All the other shit doesn't matter. None of it. Yeah. It's been an amazing trip. So for somebody watching, would you recommend that they do both? Yeah. Ibogaine first and then 5-MeO DMT? I think... Do you think the way they have it set up is perfect? I wouldn't change anything about that program. Not one thing. You know, I even... We were talking, you know, with...

I had lunch with Marcus and Amber in Coronado on my way home. And, you know, and they have a big push with getting legislation pushed on getting this legalized here in the United States. And I hope they do. You know, I hope it works. But I did tell him, I said, you know, one good thing about it being outside of the U.S. is like this is a serious commitment. It takes a week.

to do it and people and it's not accessible it's kind of hard to get to and so by having it that way you're only going to get the people you're not going to get like the people that just think they're like oh i'm gonna go do some psychedelics you're getting like it filters them out yeah you're getting people that are committed to getting better that are you know what i mean they're tired of yeah you're going to filter them out a perfect way to put it and i just hope

People donate to them because that's that's one of the only read there's two reasons why three reasons why I'm Spilling my guts with this experience right now one. I want to raise money for Marcus and Ambrose Capone's vets organization because of what it did to me and I know it's a real - not just if you're a vet if you are a vet or a special operations, but I don't know you got to talk to them, but if you're struggling and

And none of the other stuff's working. And the VA or your doctor is just pumping you full of prescriptions. Stop that shit and give this a chance. It will change your life forever. And three, even if you're not a vet, everybody needs to experience this. The world would be a hell of a lot better of a place if they did. Because you do realize none of this other shit matters. That's powerful stuff, babe. Yeah. So...

If you are listening to this and you made it through this entire podcast, please go to Vets. I'm going to link everything below and donate. Donate to them. This is changing. This is changing lives for the better. It's saving marriages. It's saving lives. It's getting people off serious opiate addictions, alcoholism, all kinds of drugs by resetting the receptors.

Stanford's doing a study and so far I think that they said they may have, I think it was 30 people they put through this. They do a brain scan before they go down and do the Ibogaine and then they go back after they do the Ibogaine. They don't even do the 5-MeO-DMT yet. They go back and Stanford is completely dumbfounded on the brain scan afterwards because the entire brain is lighting up.

People are using all a lot more of their brain I can't say all of their brain because I don't know but but it's all lit up Whereas before it was just sounds like it was just two parts now It's the entire brain is lit up and they can't explain why and this shit comes from a root and 5m EOD MT comes from a toad Not from big pharma. Yeah, nobody's making major bucks off of this it grows naturally and

And the earth is from the earth, from nature, and it's working better than any pharmaceutical prescription that you can get. Let's think about that and how evil Big Pharma is and how evil the government is that's being paid off by Big Pharma for not making this legal. They are murdering people by not legalizing this. That's a shame. That's our government. We can't control that.

but you can control making the decision to go down there and get better on your own. And you said it best. What's that? Attraction, not persuasion. No. Attraction rather than promotion. Perfect. I'll leave it at that. I love you. I love you too.

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