#12 Luis Chaparro - Inside Cartel Drug Operations 02:15:10

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So you've seen thousands of dead bodies that have been murdered. They have fentanyl like the proper powder, like fentanyl-aine powder. The precursors to KUKIT come from China or from Germany. So you just totally immerse yourself into the...

narco culture to gain their trust, to experience it so they understand it better. Our boss brought someone from China to teach him how to cook this shit. I don't know if you heard about the killing of two employees of the U.S. consulate in Ciudad Juarez. So these are all hitmen coming in and out of there. All hitmen, yeah. Because I know if I kill that guy, that couple of guys that got into me, there's going to be more coming. So you're saying that

The DEA is trading weapons for... Kingpins. For kingpins. When you grab a kingpin, it was just part of that horizontal structure. It was not the boss. You didn't cut the head of the snake. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to The Sean Ryan Show. This is episode 012, and it's all about cartels.

the DEA, and Fenton. Thank you for everyone that showed up to the live conference about the Blackwater episode. It was a great chat we had on Patreon, and for you patrons out there, you are the ones that make it possible to bring these stories to light. So thank you. If you can't support us on Patreon, please go to the link below,

Click the iTunes tab and leave us a review. All we're looking for is one word. Let's get on to the cartel stuff. In episode 012, we've brought to you an investigative cartel journalist that was kidnapped. He also witnessed an arms deal go down between the DEA and the Sonola cartel. He's also embedded

with fentanyl chemists in Mexico and discusses with us how the Chinese are sending chemists to Mexico to train the cartels to produce the most potent fentanyl in the world and how it's smuggled into the United States of America. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome my next guest, Luis Chaparro. Luis Chaparro.

Did I say that right? Yes, that's perfect. Welcome to the Sean Ryan Show. Thank you for having me, man. I mean, I told you I've been binge watching your channel and now I'm here. It's like, wow, this is where it happens. Second interview in the new studio. And this is an amazing studio, man, you have here. Thank you. I really love it. Thank you. It's amazing.

So you're an investigative reporter and you do a lot of stuff with drug trafficking, narcos and immigration. And we met on a Zoom call. You shot an email in and said you wanted to be on the show. And we get a lot of those emails and nine times out of ten we nix them right off the bat. But you sent a couple articles. We picked through them and I was like, shit, you know, let's see what this guy's all about.

So, and we had just wrapped up a episode with my friend Ed Calderon, which is what drew you into the channel. - Exactly. - And I think we were all a little skeptical on, you know, well what's gonna make you different than Ed? - Yeah. - 'Cause, you know, Ed, we had just done that. Ed's very knowledgeable on all these topics.

And so we jumped on a zoom call first words out of your mouth after I think my wife asked you that is what's gonna make you any different than Ed you said well We just did a deal between the DEA and the Sonola cartel and I jumped in immediately and said fuck it. You're on let's do it. So today and so here you are and

we're going to talk about a whole bunch of stuff we're going to talk about arms trafficking your dea deal and you did a tour of a fentanyl lab yeah and um then we'll get into the documentary that you made and produced uh and eventually wound up on showtime yes so which i watched this morning it was it was a good uh good doc thank you so but

Kind of getting a little backstory on you just a little bit here. How did you kind of get into investigative journalism when it comes to, you know, cartels? Well, I grew up in Juarez. I was born in Ciudad Juarez, right at the border of Mexico, right across El Paso, Texas. I have a dual citizenship, so...

growing up at the border, you are immediately immersed into that crazy world of cartels and all that stuff. It's been happening in Mexico forever. So I remember reading some magazines my dad used to read. My dad is a lawyer, but he used to be a teacher back then and he would like read a lot.

And I would read about cartels, I would read about organizations, about drug trafficking, and it was like, it blew my mind that that world existed in the same world I was living in. At the same time, that culture is always around you when you're living in a place like Ciudad Juarez. I was in a private school, in primary school. It was like a fancy school where most of the, you know, like businessmen and business owners put their kids.

And the rumor that some of the narcos, including Amado Carrillo Fuentes, El Señor de los Cielos, he had a couple of kids there on that same school. So I was like, you know, my whole life has been around that stuff.

So I knew when I was in secondary school, I knew that I wanted to write. I just wanted to learn. I couldn't wait to go into college and say, "Okay, I'm going to learn some skills to actually start writing."

and I'm gonna end up writing for the magazines my dad used to read, you know. And I did. One of those magazines is Proceso Magazine, and I had two covers, one of them actually talking about the CIA, a CIA operation in Mexico.

and the other one talking about how the DEA was not really looking for narcos in Mexico, but looking for gold medals to hang on their neck. So when I went to college, I didn't study journalism, I studied mass media, which was a broader thing. I honestly thought, "I just need a paper," because I was already working at a local newspaper.

I went and knocked on the door, trying to get a job to deliver the newspaper. I was like, that way I'm gonna be the first one reading the news of my city. And I can maybe find around how journalism works in a newsroom. So I went there, they told me, like, all right, wait on that chair. And then all of a sudden the editor of the newspaper came down a stair. So I was like, you're here for the editor, right? And I'm like, yes, I'm exactly that guy.

That was completely bullshit. He set me up on a computer, gave me a couple of articles, like a list of news headlines and a thing we called Domi, which was like a small version of a newspaper page, and told me, "That's you today." I'm like, "All right, what the fuck am I going to do with all of this?" I had no clue, but I started asking.

And the friends around started helping me out on how to decide on which article was going to be on the front, which picture. I was like 19 years old back then and I was like, "Fuck it." I learned quick. I stayed there. Then they noticed that, "Okay, so you weren't here for that job, right?" I'm like, "No."

I have six months now working here and delivering. So what the hell? And he was like, "All right, do you have a permit to work in the US?" And I'm like, "Yeah, I'm a US citizen also." He's like, "That's perfect. Let's move you to the US newsroom." So they brought me into El Paso newsroom and it was like a small newsroom. So every time a journalist, a reporter

Didn't show up. I was covering for that. I was like me I'll write it even if it's you know, like I crashed around the corner whatever I'll write it so I started like working my way up there but I always having an ear out and uh and uh my eyes open to see what's going on in the Cartel word and all that stuff and I remember my first

if you could call it investigation which was kind of like shitty you know but uh my first story about that was how some of the cartels in ciudad juarez were what were trying to recruit kids on a metroflog social network social media which metroflog was huge back then in mexico there was no facebook or twitter it was just like metroflog what year was that

I think it was 2007. 2007? Something like that. 2007, 2006. How old are you? I'm 34. I'm about to turn 35. Okay. So I started, I started like somewhat young, you know, like writing about this stuff. My editor saw my pitch and he was like, this seems like, you know, like a conspiracy theory unless you bring me some proof.

So I brought him a lot of proof, a lot of links between this Metroflog user, his this and that, and he killed this and that. And he's like, holy shit, you have a story there, man. Yeah, let's run it. And it was the front page of the newspaper. So it was like, I liked that feeling. But at the same time, it made me, because I was too young and too naive and too into it,

I made some mistakes. I started writing about how corrupt the Mexican police were and how were they dealing information between the military, federals, local police, narcos. Even the DA was involved in that shit. So I started writing about this woman who was a police officer and she was like trafficking information because she was like good looking. So she was like literally fucking everybody and trafficking information around.

And that was my editor said like okay, we're gonna run that in the front page But we're not gonna put your name into it and I'm like why not man. It's my story I mean you sure and it's like you sure I obviously didn't understand what that meant. Yeah, so protection exactly And so we did and I got kidnapped by the local police in Ciudad Juarez You got kidnapped by a local. Yeah by local officers and it was like I

It was when I knew that I was into deep shit and it was not a game, you know. I left my girlfriend at her house, was driving back to, I still live with my parents, driving back to my parents' house in the middle of the night and I got stopped by first like a traffic police and I'm like, wow, I'm not even, you know, doing anything but I guess it's mistaking. So he told me like, hey, you just run that red light on a huge street.

And I'm like, "I did not, man. I mean, I'm watching the red light." And he's like, "No, you did. Can I see your license?" And I'm like, "Yeah." Grabbed my license, kind of laughed, said something on the radio, like codes, and then gave me back my license. He's like, "Yeah, you're good to go."

And I'm like, "Alright, that was weird." Kept driving and right in front of that, like two police pickup trucks just like crossed my way. They started knocking with their guns on my window. It's like, "Get the fuck down, get the fuck down." And I'm like, "Alright." And I thought again, I think they're mistaking. Everybody's nervous because it's like the war in Ciudad Juarez between cartels was just starting.

And I'm like, I think they're mistaking, they're nervous because of everything that's going on in the city. So I grabbed my badge from the newspaper and put it behind my shirt. And it was like, we got the journalist. Yeah, it's him. All right, bye. And then it started sending quotes. And I'm like, oh shit. And I'm like, dude, you can take everything. Take my car if you want money. I have some money. I can go to the ATM, get some money, and just leave me alone.

And they're like, "No, no, no, you just fucked up. You know what you did, and you fucked up real good this time." And I'm like, "I have no clue, man. I'm cool." So they tied my hands and feet, put me in the back of a truck, of the pickup truck. They put their feet on top of me, you know, on my chest, and they started driving off, and someone else took my car. And it was like 11 p.m., like in the middle of the night.

We went to a deserted parking lot and then they stopped there and then they asked me to run. And I'm like, "I'm not gonna run because I know what's gonna happen. I'm gonna run. You're gonna shoot me and then you're gonna say it was a confusion or I had a gun or you thought I was this and that or some shit like that." So I was like, "I'm not running, man." And I knew for that source.

that the local police and the federal police were fighting between each other because one was supporting one cartel and the other one had a deal with another one. So I saw a convoy of federales driving by and I started jumping to see. I told them I was cold because it was in the middle of the winter. So I started jumping and saying like, and they're like, "Hey, what the fuck are you doing?" I'm like, "I'm trying to get some heat, man, because I'm freezing."

And they just like kick me and they're like, hey, get on the fucking floor. I know what you're doing. And then the other guy was like, watch out the fox. That was the code for the federales, like fox. Watch it with the fox. And then the federales combo just left, just passed by. And I'm like, fuck.

And I remember I got on my knees and said, "If you're going to do this, then just fucking do it." And I was thinking if my colleagues at the newspaper investigate this, they're going to find out I was executed and I wasn't doing something else because I was on my knees. And I was like, "That's how am I going to get on my knees?"

At the end, I don't remember like being screaming or yelling, but they say that I was. I was like, "Stop fucking yelling, stop." And I'm like, "I'm not yelling, man. I'm just asking you for a favor." And they're like, "You're in no position to ask for anything." And I'm like, "I can bring you money. I can bring you some money and just give me two hours and then we'll play, you know, cat and mouse again."

He said no, but one of them was like, "What if we..." and then started talking codes. But I could understand that, what if we actually get some money out of him, and then we end up catching him again and killing him. And I said, "Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, do that. Let's do that, let's do that." And then they started fighting each other, and then the commanders are like, "All right, get up. Go to an ATM." And I'm like, "There's your wallet."

And I'm like, "Alright." And I'm like, "Just give me your word that you're not going to shoot me in the back while I'm walking." And he's like, "You don't, you're in no position to ask me for any. So if you want to go, go. If you're not, don't go." And I'm like, "Okay, I'll go." And I started walking and I felt like, "Shit, this is it. They're going to fucking shoot me off the back." I hit a main street, went to an ATM. I had two cars on me.

Because there's a lot on you. No, no one was following me I could just run or and leave but they had my address my car plates all of my documentation and as I was like Of course, they're gonna try and look for me at my house, you know or my family or something like that Yeah, so I went tried to play it cool God

12,000 pesos, which is nothing, 600 bucks. That was the limit of both my cards that I could withdraw. Got back and said, like, count it as 12,000 pesos. And I was like, I'm going to trust you. Get in your car, make sure you're not missing anything. And I'm like, I don't even care. He's like, no, please make sure you're not missing anything because this is not a robbery. This is not what we want to, you know, say that we're robbing you.

"Please look into your car, look into your wallet. You have everything." "Yes." "All right." "You have two hours. We're going to be looking for you again." So that same night, I crossed the border and stayed in El Paso for a good while, for like nine months, I think, without being able to actually get back into Juarez. That was like traumatic, you know? It was like, "Shit, I can see my city from here, but I can't cross. I can't get back." And I have a source, and I had a source back then,

a guy who was with me in secondary school and we were like good friends and then he went off to the other side of the coin, you know, he wouldn't look on the bad side and he would like tell me how the whole cartel works and like a lot of stuff. We will talk about a lot of stuff and he called me on my, we used to have like these nextel radios. I don't know if you remember those, like they were like very popular in Mexico back then.

So he ring my radio and I was like, "Hey, what's up, man?" He's like, "Hey, what are you doing?" I'm like, "Nothing, working." And he's like, "Where are you?" And I'm like, "In El Paso."

And he was like, "I learned that you can't get back to Juarez. What happened?" And I'm like, "I didn't tell anyone, anyone." I talked to the owner of the newsroom of the paper and I told him, like, "I don't want anything, like, please." And he was like, "No, I need to call the mayor of Ciudad Juarez to give you protection and this and that." And I'm like, "Please don't, just don't tell anyone, anyone, please."

And then he's like, "All right, I won't do anything. I won't say anything. What you're gonna do is you're gonna file a complaint with human rights just so you have preceding, you know, like a background in case-- - A record. - A record, yeah. In case something happens. And I'm like, "All right, I'll do that." And I did that, but didn't tell anyone, just my family. And so I was like, "Hmm, how did this guy find out?"

And he was like, "Anyways, I don't know why you don't want to tell me we're friends and everything, but be looking out in the news. You're going to be surprised." And I'm like, "Alright." So I kept watching the news for the next days. And one of those days, in the same spot they closed my road, those police officers were shot/killed right there. Really? So I stopped communication with that guy. I was like,

Dude, that's not, I mean, we're not friends because of that. I'm completely different than that. I'm older than that. Not in the business of having people killed. Actually, on the other side of the coin, trying to make people skip their lives. So yeah, it was pretty damn hardcore. So I had a chance there to get out and keep writing.

And I was like, okay, I need to step up. I need to be more careful. That's why you study some of this shit. That's why you go to college. And that's why you learn. But right there was just starting the ugliest...

part of the history of Ciudad Juarez, where the killings were. It was the most violent city in the world. They killed five friends of mine. It was like hell. And I was just on the verge of that. So I had to cover all that war, writing for most international organizations about what was going on in Ciudad Juarez.

At the same time figuring out how to protect myself, like how to have a protocol, security protocols and all this stuff. All the stuff we know now in Mexico, it's just like basic stuff in journalism, you know, like safety protocols and all this stuff. But back then, we weren't used to that. So I learned how to work in that context.

in that time. - Where was your family at the time you were kidnapped? Were they in Mexico? - In Mexico, yeah. My family was in Mexico, but they live in a gated community with security guards. It's like a bubble in Ciudad Juarez where most of the

the business owners, like the biggest business owners in the city or in the state, they leave their politicians, all kind of people. So they're very well protected. - They still have to leave though, right? They have to leave their bubble. - Yeah, exactly, to go to work. I told them, I told them like, this might be dangerous to you, you might be in danger too, 'cause on my ID is that address, you know. They were like, you be safe, we'll be good.

And I'm like, all right, that's, I mean, they're like that. They're just weird. And so, yeah, I left to El Paso. My sister left to El Paso too. But both of my parents stayed in Juarez. They did? Mm-hmm. Wow, I wasn't expecting that. Yeah. I was not expecting that. Yeah, man. So basically that's how I started. I mean, I started learning the bat way, you know. But it helped a lot. I've been doing this for 12 years now. Yeah.

So yeah, I learned a lot. - Well, how long was it after you got kidnapped before you started going back? - Like nine months. - That's it? Just nine months? - Yeah, 'cause when that guy asked me to watch the news and I saw those guys were dead, it was like a mixed feeling, you know? 'Cause he was like, "I don't wanna be a part of that. "I don't wanna feel the responsibility for those lives." But at the same time, it's like,

I feel like I can't go back now. You know, like, they got rid of those guys, so I can't actually go back to my city. And it started, like, I didn't, like, went all the way back. I started, like, going for a couple of hours, getting back, and then going a couple of more hours, then getting back. Yeah. And then I was like, all right, I feel good to get back to leave into El Cuero. You didn't feel like...

That was coming from higher to kidnap you and eventually kill you? You didn't think that was coming from higher? You think that may have been just those two cops or? No, it definitely, definitely cool tell that it was coming from higher. But not that high. I think it was coming from specifically that girl. So she was like a commander. Okay. And because I had her phone number. So I had access to some of her text messages.

So I think I stepped up too deep, you know. I think that's not what investigative journalism is. I just went too deep because I thought that was journalism, but it wasn't. But that didn't stop you because...

Now you're doing all kinds of stuff. So how long was it after you got kidnapped before you started kind of doing these stories again where you were embedded and things started getting a little dicey? So the whole hell broke loose in Ciudad Juarez. We had like 13 murders a day reported, plus those unreported.

And I started working for like two jobs and college. So I was, I bought a motorcycle so I can actually made it on time to college and then to the newsroom in El Paso and at the same time I had to cover for EFE which is like an international news based out of Spain. And they will ask me to go to every single murder scene to report on that. So I will be driving all over town, you know, like

Sometimes I would report for El Diario Inopaso remotely. I would write a feature story, but be reporting certain time of the day in Ciudad Juarez. And that was very basic, but I learned a lot because I wasn't really investigating. I was just covering what we call the red note, la nota roja.

They killed five cops here. They killed 15 kids here. They killed... It was like that. But you get your brain thinking and connecting the dots. And it's like, "Oh, shit. This murder might be connected to that stuff and to this and to that investigation." And you start thinking. And I started coming out with some proper features, you know, on investigation.

And again, I think that was too raw of a journalism. It wasn't proper stuff. But it was the beginning of trying to put together stuff and trying to explain what's going on. But it was hard for me at the time, because I was into living in that city, to see the bigger picture. This is something else than cartels killing each other. But that was my main question all through. That's been my main question all through these years, man.

Like still to today what the hell is going on in Mexico? What is really happening? How does this world really works because I don't believe in the thing that it's a turf war between cartels, you know so they were asking you to go and

Basically cover every single murder that happened in Juarez and they were doing did you just say they were doing 13? 13 to 40. Yeah murders a day. How long were you doing that for? Three years three years years. Yeah, so you've seen thousands of yeah dead bodies that have been murdered Yeah, so my question is what is it all cartel or in cartel crime or what is what is the motive for?

to kill somebody down there when it's, if it's just a regular person who's not involved in the cartel, why are they getting murdered by the cartel? - There's a lot of, you know, like the drug business involves a lot of people, not only dealers or cartel members. It involves lawyers, it involves business owners, it involves journalists, it involves a set of people.

Sometimes, when you see like, "Oh shit, they killed this woman and she used to be a teacher." I'm not saying she was into the business directly, but sometimes they will try to extort her because they needed more money to get more weapons. So it was like, "Okay, she's driving a nice car. Let's try to extort her." And they will show up, ask for money, she will call the police, she will get killed because the police was working with the cartel.

Sometimes it's like that. There's been confusions. Like, I don't know if you heard about the killing of two employees of the U.S. consulate in Ciudad Juarez, a man and his wife with a young girl in the back. And I had access to recording that the DA was doing on those guys. The DA was doing surveillance on that group of the cartel, the Juarez cartel.

they were listening to recordings they were like taping the phones and radios and i got access to that and i and i learned how they work and it's shitty you know they don't have a system they'll just say like okay so um the hit is dark haired male in white sub that's it

and they have people all over the city. So that guy started receiving a bunch of rings from his people. He's like, okay, so I got black haired male with woman, white SUV right here. It's like, all right, okay, go for it.

Five minutes later, it's like, hey, I have what ACB dark haired man with a child. Oh shit. We have another one. Just go for the two of them. So they just kill anybody that fits the description. Yeah. They're not, you know, they're just, yeah, just a blanket. Yeah.

After like four or five rings from different people, it's like, okay, I have some other info. It's called El Paso. They called it in code word Parque, so they don't say El Paso. So it has plates from El Parque. So it's like, oh, okay, so it's not my target. This has like Mexican plates or right by. So they narrow it down to El Paso plates, which is half of the city of Ciudad Juarez, you know.

And so, well, Texas plates. And so, yeah, I learned that they don't, there's a lot of people innocent. That are just killed just because they fit a description? Exactly. What about just regular crime, you know, that's non-cartel related? How much of that is just...

regular crime it's um usually regular crime is not using firearms like they're not using they're using like if they use a firearm it will be like a small firearm you know like it's not even going to be like a nine millimeter um nine is definitely cartel related 223 cartel related all that stuff it's carcel related um okay um the other guys they sometimes they don't even they don't even

kill you because they want to mug you, you know, because they know they're going to get some hit and they know that if they got arrested, they're going to put some other charges on them, like a lot, you know, going to be like organized crime. And this guy had like two kilos of heroin and this and that. And he was just like a regular fucking mugger that was trying to get your phone. So, so yeah, that's now the, the local, the,

drug business, like the street selling, that's huge. That's a huge business in Juarez since the 90s. And that's why you have a bunch of sellers getting killed, getting murdered, getting threats, getting crazy. Just last night I saw a video of two women being tortured and killed in a place called Cuauhtemoc, a few hours from Juarez. And everybody's like, they're teachers. Why were they murdered?

But in the video I saw, they were interrogating them. I was like, "Who do you work for?" And they were like, "This guy." "And what are you doing?" "We're selling." "And who are you selling to?" "Well, we're selling in this spot." So it's like, damn, man. Sometimes people you don't even think about are into some shit, you know? - Yeah. - Somehow.

Well, then you started getting, so you started reporting all these murders and then it sounds like that wasn't really enough for you. So you wanted to get more into the investigative type stories. And that can be hard to bust into. So I'm kind of curious, you know,

how it is that you started developing sources and assets and informants or whatever you call them in the journalism world. From what I've found is once it can be real hard to get in, but once you find one, that opens the door for everybody. And so I'm just curious to see how you kind of developed your first asset or

What do you call them? Do you call them assets? Sources. Sources. How did you develop your first source? Well, my first source was actually this friend I was telling you about. We were in secondary school and we grew up together. We live nearby. We just hang out together. And then he started going into that world and started writing. I remember one time we were drinking at my place and we were like super smashed. And I told him like, you know that there's going to be a time where

or worlds are gonna meet not in the best way, right? And he's like, "Yeah." And I remember he gave me a hug and he's like, "You're still gonna be my friend no matter what, man. You're gonna be my friend. Sometimes, I guess, I'm gonna have to stop talking to you. And sometimes, I guess, you're gonna step on my toes. But I'll keep doing my job and I'll keep doing yours." So we started splitting, but even then,

he will introduce me to other guy, you know, like, he will like, hey man, come over. And I'm like, all right. And I would show up in a house with armed people and, you know, I was like, okay, so this is a place he wants to show me. And then he introduced me to one of the bosses, you know, like, hey, this is dad and this is my cousin, he's a journalist. And he's like, hey, making like,

making like jokes about me reporting is like just don't report this shit, okay, and I'm like no man like honestly I'm here just like a like a regular person. Most of those guys you get them either by drinking, doing drugs or partying. The party is where you make months in that world. If you don't party you're never gonna get access to any of that shit.

And you're going to look like something else, you know? You're going to look like, so why is he doing, what is he doing here? What does he want? Is he a DA? Because everybody in Mexico thinks like everybody's fucking DA. And it's like, that's what he did. So yeah, the party, it was what made the bond. So I have my toll, you know, party. Sometimes my wife, she knows what I do.

She doesn't really know any details of what I'm doing until my story is published. And even then, she doesn't really know the details or the backstories. But at the beginning, she was like, it's fucking 3 a.m., man, and you're not answering. Yeah. So I'm like, you're going to have to trust me on this one because I'm not, you know, doing something else than working and having a blast with these guys. Yeah.

And sometimes I will get home, like, super wasted, high on coke, you know, like, stuff like that. But that's what would open doors, you know. That's what would open me doors. Do you enjoy it? I mean, is it a good time? No, yeah. I mean, don't get me wrong. Like, party is party, you know. Sometimes it's just too much. Sometimes it becomes a place where you start having, like, a bad trip, sort of, you know. Like, when you are drunk and all fussy and confused and...

And you're like, what the fuck am I doing here? These people, I don't relate to these people at all. What they're talking, what they're saying.

I don't know. I just can't find commonplace between us. - Where are you guys partying? Are you partying, what do you have, bars? - Most of the time it's-- - Houses? - Yeah, most of the time it's particular houses, like houses they have, sometimes bars, but not really 'cause-- - Very private. - Yeah, very private stuff. - Invite only. - Mm-hmm, yeah. Sometimes it's just like a small party. Sometimes it's just like a, you know, like not even like an overnight or whatever, a couple of beers.

having fun, shots or whatever, and then they'll be like, "Okay, that's it. I'm good." And because they see that you are into that, they feel comfortable with you. And it's harder for a Mexican journalist to get access into a Mexican criminal organization, because when they see you are from somewhere else, they will say, "Okay, I like this guy because if I can confirm it's not DEA or whatever,

It's cool that he's here, that he's interested in this and he's going to go report whatever. But they feel they can trust him more because it's not we're going to be working with a local police or with another cartel or that kind of shit. What is the motivation to have an investigative journalist at the party with the cartels that you're saying that they trust you?

I mean, why the fuck would a cartel trust an investigative journalist? I guess because it's not... I have never done something or written about something they don't know I'm going to write. I'm full disclaimer. If I'm there partying with them, I'm there partying with them. Learning...

I'm finding my way through to get access and trust of them. But I'm not going to report on that. I'm not going to say anything I hear in that party. I'm not going to report on that. I'm not going to write on that. I'm not going to say anything because I know that's going to cost me. And

And they know that. I think they can feel that I'm transparent and that I'm like, I'm not here to snitch on you, man. I'm here to actually party with you, to get to know you, to ask some questions for me, for myself, to know what's going to be my next steps. And then when I want to write a story, when I need something, then I will reach out full transparency. I will be like, I'm writing a story about this. Do you feel comfortable sharing something with me?

And they will say like, "No, not at all, man. I cannot give you an interview." And I'm like, "I mean, I wonder what circumstances will you feel comfortable giving me an interview?" And it's like, no face, no name, no this, no that. And then I'll work that, you know? It's an negotiation. It's like, "Hey, man. Okay, I'm not going to put your name, your face. I really need to write that you are part of that organization in this place. Is that doable?"

It's like I don't know man, so we started like talking about that and then sometimes I they say yes Sometimes they say no no and when they say no it's enough. Yeah rather lose a story I guess my question is what is the motivation for them of what do they get out of it? Why would they even want anything in the news at all? I

- It's different between organizations and that's an interesting side of it. The Juarez Cartel, super hermetic. Like they don't share anything. It's super hard to break inside the Juarez Cartel 'cause they don't feel motivated at all to talk, to say anything. They just don't give a fuck. They actually go the other way. They're like, no man. You have to have solid sources inside.

they have to trust you a lot and even then i found that most of them will just like talk broadly on stuff you know uh but the sinaloa cartel they almost have like this pr office they really want to be out there they want to be yeah yeah yeah they what is it for recruiting or i think it's just to to make a point

To make a point where we're still on top. We're still on top of the game. - So it's to spread fear. - To flex. - Exactly. - To the other cartels and to the-- - To the public in general. - To the general Mexican population. - Yeah, it's just like a flexing move, you know? Like we're still the bad guys here. And whenever I ask for access there, I have a great source in Sinaloa that I really trust and he really trusts me and we're friends.

And he helps me a lot, like a lot. Every time I ask him for crazy shit, man, like I've asked him for crazy stuff. And it's like, hey man, can you help me out with this? He knows that when his phone rings, I think it rolls his eyes like, oh my God, he comes again. You know? Because I push and I push hard because that's my job, you know? I'm not going to take just like, no, we can do that. All right, bye man, sorry.

It was like, how can we do this? How can I tell this story, man? How can you help me out? I need this profile specifically. I need to find a person that talks to me and that knows about this. How can we do that? And when he's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. I was like, okay, what if I show up there? We just have a drink and talk it over, but in person. Not over the phone, not over signal or telegram or whatever. Just right there. And then we go from there.

And 90% of the time it works. 90% of the time it's like, all right, let's go. Let's talk to him. Say what he says.

To be honest, also some of them ask for money. Some of them, they try to get some money out of that. How much money? Not that much, but it depends. It depends on the access. It depends on the days. It depends on the person. Hundreds? Thousands? Tens of thousands? Thousands. Yeah, no, hundreds, no. Thousands of dollars. Thousands of dollars. They would ask for money. Sometimes it's not even for them, but it's like to pay the employees, you know? Okay. Yeah.

Of course, this is like, as I'm telling you, this is full disclaimer. I'm very transparent in what I do. Most of the times I try not to. I try not to because it's not ethical and it can not be real what they're telling you if their motivation is money. Mm-hmm.

but sometimes i've worked like that i've i've worked like that when i see when i see that what i need basically is b-roll you know yeah i don't need info but i need zero i need a bunch of imagery of guns or training of this and that and you want video assets for your stories and it's um yeah and i need like to be real you know yeah not like fake guns or whatever like to be real so you you just totally immerse yourself into the

Narco culture to gain their trust to experience it so you understand it better How long are you when you do immerse yourself? What's what would you say? What's the longest you've immersed yourself down there within? some of these cartels before coming up and going back home and checking in with the wife and kid and Mmm, not too long. I try to try to have like a tight a safety protocol, you know, so

I don't tell my wife where I'm going or what I'm doing, like specifics, but she knows that I constantly ring. And she's my, like, it's crazy because I do that protocol with some friends, with some journalists, and with associations of journalists to protect journalists in Mexico. You know, when I know I'm going to be in too deep, I ring on them and say like, hey man, can we start like a protocol? They're like, yeah. So the protocol is like ring me every two hours or half an hour,

or if you're going to be out all day just in one part of the day before midnight, you're going to have to bring me back. And so I'm like, okay, I'm back at the hotel. I'm safe. And I'm like, okay. But my safety net is my wife because she can feel

the threat or the danger beforehand. She knows that when I'm not feeling comfortable, I tend to call her a lot. Not text her, not WhatsApp. I tend to call her a lot, like a lot. Call her in the night, in the morning, when I have breakfast.

She feels that she feels like okay these guys not feeling good about what he's doing right now. He's might be in danger. Yeah So she knows that I could be in danger. So she tries to ring more often So you're checking in at least at least once a day. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah I'm never I've never been more than more than one day like

I've had, I have the case, like the scenario where it's like, okay, we're going to go into that place. No cell phones, this and that. But I try also to negotiate my side, you know, like not to go full on. It's like, yeah, whatever you say. It's like, no, man, no phones. It's not a go for me. Are they frisking you? Are they searching you before? I just had one time. They trust you that much? Yeah, I just had one time with a guy in Sonora.

that he searched me, he grabbed my phone, he black phoned on me. Well, at the beginning his employee put like a thing on my eyes, but he thought it was too disrespectful. He was like, "No, no, no, no, dude, that's disrespectful for the journalist here. Just let's do this. Grab your hands, put your head down all the road, just look down. That's it."

Even then I could know where I was because I sort of like, you know, I knew that we crossed like a train track. I've heard a checkpoint, a police checkpoint. I could count the streetlights passing down a dirt road. So I sort of know where I was at the time. I didn't like that.

uh i didn't really like that at all like i was like no man i'm not gonna do this again because we were there and then he had it was incredible man he was and the story is in netflix it's a show called dope and if you see the mexico side of that series i didn't do any of the u.s side i did all the mexican side you will see a scene where we arrive at a house

And there's this narco and he says like, "So this is my stash house." And I was like, "Alright, that small house right there?" And it was just like an old man with a tecate, you know, like drinking. And he's like, "Yeah." And I'm like, "But there's nothing, man. What the fuck is this?" And he's like, "Nah, I'm not that stupid, man. Hey guys, can you open up the stash?" So it was like they started like putting dirt out with a shovel.

And then we'll have a carpet. And then behind a carpet, you will have a door, like an iron door. We'll open that, and there was like a stairs. And it was like an underground stash house. It was weed and poppy in that stash house. But it was like...

floor to roof, you know, like full of that stuff. And they had all of their accounting. Inventory, everything. Everything. So it was under the house. Under the house. But you couldn't tell because it was like a small house in the middle of nowhere and it was like dirt.

Just like that. We were actually stepping on top of that. So we went down there. We filmed everything. We filmed an interview and all that stuff. And then we went up again. And then he received a call on his radio. Someone telling him that one of the security rings was breached by a convoy of federales. And he's like, okay, so my fifth ring got compromised. Let's wait here.

Give me your ID. I'll keep all of your IDs. If something happens, if they break into the second ring, it's on you guys. And I'm like, okay. I mean, it's not going to be on us, man. We're not even, we don't have cell phones. It's, I mean, no, there's no way. And he's like, I don't care what you say, man. If they breach second ring, it's going to be on you. And I'm like, all right. So it was like a tense because like, okay, they breached into the fourth ring and then they reached the

the third ring and i was like fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck and they um they stopped that burritos place to eat burritos and they're like no estan comiendo burritos and they're like all right that's good for you all right there you go man let's go give these guys an extra burrito exactly yes man it was it was it was intense that's so you're really embedded with these guys yeah

Well, let's take a quick break. And when we come back, I want to get into some of these arms trafficking deals that you were a part of and were able to report on. Yeah, sure. Cool. For sure, man. All right, so we're going to get into some arms trafficking stuff. And before I do, we had a good conversation at breakfast today about, I cannot believe that you don't carry a gun. And I couldn't believe it when you told me.

when we were talking earlier today about some of the stuff that you've been doing and that you've been involved with and who you're embedding with. Then we get in the studio here and we start recording and tell them you've been kidnapped. And so that blows my mind that you're not carrying into each zone. But before we kind of get into the arms trafficking stuff, I'm really curious without the... If I wanted to go down to Mexico...

How hard would it be for me to illegally acquire some type of a firearm? It will definitely be easier than to acquire like a legal arm. It's not that hard man. Like Mexico is flooded with guns. Like they're all over. It's very easy. It's just you need like to know someone and you can get one.

Many of the cartels now, what they're doing is they are renting, you know, like firearms. You don't even have to buy it. They will take you into a warehouse and you're a hitman, but you don't own a gun. So you go to that warehouse and say, like, hey, how much for this gun? Two hours or two days. And it's like, it's going to be, I don't know, 2,000 pesos, 4,000 pesos, 12,000 pesos.

You rent it? You rent it. You rent the weapon. Yes. And then you go, take a hit, get back, and deliver back the gun to that same warehouse. Have you seen these warehouses? Yes, I've seen those warehouses. What's the selection like? Well, like, what do they have? Yeah. All kinds of shit. They have a bunch of 9mms, a bunch of shitty revolvers, you know, like these old revolvers. Mm-hmm.

They have AKs. They have what the Mexican military uses, which is the .223. I don't know what kind of rifle it is, but the bullet is a .223. Okay, so probably some type of an M4 or AR-15. Yeah, exactly, something like that. It's like something long. They have that kind of stuff. Those guys who rent those kind of guns, it's like old guns. They're like sort of...

Sort of like manipulated in some way. They're not like new pristine state guns. It's like ugly, ugly weaponry. I guess it's like the second life they give to guns they use in like bigger...

scales of the cartel. - Yeah. Well, when you go in these warehouses, is it all organized? Is everything on the wall? Or is it, hey, look at the trunk of my car and there's just a whole bunch of-- - No, I mean, the warehouse I've been into, there are in Juarez, downtown Juarez, imagine downtown Juarez. Imagine this city, border city, of 1.4 million people living there.

Not a beautiful city, kind of a shitty one. Imagine a market in downtown, crowded, a lot of people, like a regular market selling fruits, selling a lot of shit, medicine and a lot of stuff. People screaming, people yelling, cars going into small alleys.

And in between all that, it's a store, a regular store selling sneakers, counterfeit, you know, like fake Nike sneakers, fake whatever, with a man outside saying like, hey, come get some sneakers, 20 bucks for the pair and whatever. But if you arrive there with the right guy, he'll be like, hey man, he's with me. All right. And then you just go to the back of that store.

And there's a warehouse which is around like about this big. It's not like a huge warehouse, not small.

And you have guns all over. Guns like laying there, you know, like just in the wall, right there. The floor, an ugly table. He can't find sometimes the, you know, like the gun he's looking for. He's like, I know I have an AK, like a new AK around here. So he's like... Rummaging around. And then he finds like the AK. He's like, oh yeah, here it is. Can't find the charger though. He's looking for the charger.

all duct taped, you know, because it's not properly working or fitting. Yeah, it's one of those places and I'm like, wow. And you're like, so you sell these guns? And he's like, no, we actually rent them. And while I was there in the middle of the day, like 2 p.m., a guy showed in and he's like, hey man, hey, hey, hey, you just need two guns, like handguns, whatever you have, but for now, no, I need it now.

It's like did you talk to whatever? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I talked to him and yeah, all right It's gonna be this and that I already paid that guy. Let me give him a call. Hey, man, the guy this guy here blah blah Yeah, it's a good he paid. All right. See you. There you go. So these are all hit men coming in. Yeah low-level hit men They're not like, you know, there's like also some hit men that are like very well prepared most of them working for law enforcement in Mexico

Okay. Do these guys, do they have any rituals or traditions they do before they go on a hit? Like when I was in, I used to live in Colombia, I used to live in Medellín and they have a church that they would go and all the assassins would go pray at that specific church before they would go on a hit. And is it like that in Mexico too? Do they get... You're talking about Virgen de los Sicarios, right? Yeah. You're talking about that one in Colombia. Yeah.

No, I mean in Mexico it depends. Like Sinaloa, it's Jesus Malverde is huge. He's the saint of drug traffickers. He's a legend. And they go and sometimes they will have to, like on their houses, they will have like a small altar for Jesus Malverde where they drop cigarettes, booze, drugs. Offerings. There's a huge Jesus Malverde altar.

altar in the middle of a road where they go also and offer stuff for him. Many of them, that was kind of new in 2010, we started watching new Santa Muerte churches in Juarez. And I went to all of them. You know, I'm curious like that. So I was like, "What the hell? This is a fucking Santa Muerte full-on church."

So I was interested in what was going on in there. And it's crazy, man. It doesn't make sense. I mean, not disrespectful, but it's just like too mixed with Catholicism. They will pray some of the parts of the Holy Father, Padre Nuestro, blah, blah, blah. And in the middle of that, they will say something like, Santa, Querida Santa Muerte, Niña Blanca, no sé qué, this and that. And I'm like, wow, that seems like bullshit, you know?

But many of them believe in the Santa Muerte and it started developing in 2010 in Juarez because the north of Mexico, that was not a tradition in the north of Mexico. That was a tradition in the center and south of Mexico for centuries.

But when the militaries and the federales started arriving in the city, they brought with them some of their culture. So they started setting up churches and all that stuff. Does that translate to "Saint of the Dead"? Yes, Santa Muerte is the holy death. And it's this skeleton dressed as the Holy Mary. Like with the thing. But it's a skeleton. And it has the...

The hose it's called? Yeah. I don't know what it's called. I know what you're saying. Yeah. The sickle. Exactly. Yeah. The sickle. In Spanish it's called la guadaña.

So yeah, it's interesting. Some of them have those rituals. I can tell that most of them, when they pray or have a Santa Muerte, they are related to law enforcement. Most of the time, not all of them, because I've watched some stash houses where they are not law enforcement related, sicarios, and they will have a small Santa Muerte on the corner.

So, and I know that Sinaloa is huge for Jesus Malverde, a U.S. artist. I took him to Sinaloa to take some pictures of the narco culture and all that stuff. And he, it's called Charles Craft, and he makes ceramic art amazing. And he gave me a bust of Jesus Malverde on ceramic, like this big bust.

And I have it in my living room, right there. - What is that? What are you saying? - It's like a figure of Jesus Malverde made out of ceramic. It's painted very beautifully. That was like his thanks to me. He was like, "Thank you for taking me to Sinaloa to make some crazy ass pictures on the Nacoculture and I'm gonna give you this."

So I have it in my living room, on my TV room. It's like right there on top of everything. And I love it. But sometimes where people shows up in my place and they're like, "Oh wow, why do you have a Jesus Malverde on your living room?" And I'm like, "It's a work of art. It's just the first of 10. There's only 10 in the world and it has a value. It's worth something, but it has also a value to me inside that culture." - That's cool. - It's interesting, yeah.

Let's get into some of these arms deals. Yeah, so I was by the time we talked about the like a zoom call remember? Mm-hmm right after that I traveled to Sinaloa to meet with some arms traffickers well, I tried to say Aloha and then to Mexicali because the route is the US border towns like Calexico El Paso Tijuana well San Diego

And then south, either Tijuana, Mexicali, or Ciudad Juarez. And then down to Sinaloa, Durango, Sonora. And so I met with these guys. I explained to them that I wanted to understand how was the arms still flowing south, still after fast and furious, still after a tight gun control in Mexico, still after all of that, the border closed.

How how you managed to actually still bring up bring in like huge guns? I showed you some pictures on what they look and I was like what what the hell is this one? It's like that's a grenade launcher, right? That is a m203 grenade launcher that fires a 40 millimeter Basically explosive. It's like how does these guys?

get a hold of some shit like that you know yeah so it's like heavy weaponry they have and they just show me the the basic you know so so i went to sinaloa they took me to this place a proper house where they have some of um you know like gold um nine millimeters gold ak-47 they used a lot these call the stuff called draco

which is like a short AK. I don't know if you know. I mean, they call it Draco down in Mexico. Yeah, I mean, here they would just call it an AK. An AK, right? It's like a short version of the big AK.

They have a bunch of them, some of them like all golden, you know, very flashy stuff. And I follow the road to the U.S. So in the U.S., in places like California or like Texas, they will just buy a gun with a permit, someone like me or like you.

And that guy is clean, he has his own guns, but he's selling all the guns to the cartel, to cartel members. What he needs is just like a report of the guns he sold so he can show ATF, like, "Sold these guns because I have a permit to sell guns out of my own home, out of my own place. What they do with that, I just don't give a fuck."

i don't know if the atf actually tracks those buyers or not but these guys are like and i know for a fact that many of those guns are ending up in mexico really so they how they traffic stuff is they disassemble the guns and they put small parts inside like old refrigerators a stove you know an old living room or whatever and then they're like oh just moving back to juarez from el paso and

I'm gonna pay my taxes for my stuff to get into Mexico. So they will pay that, go in, and then they have these workshops where they're putting everything together again. I went to one of those in Mexicali. I think one of the videos I shared is one of those places you will see a table with a bunch of guns. Those are the guns that are ready to go. They're assembled back again.

And then from there they go to Sinaloa by plane, by truck, sometimes even by sea when they are in Baja California. They travel through the Mar de Cortes all the way to the Sinaloa coast.

And that's where they told me that's where the heavy weaponry is going through. Why does it go there? Because I think it's easier to navigate the sea than to actually, you know, like ride. Okay, so they go there and then it's dispersed? Exactly. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Most of them go to Sinaloa and then from there they end up even in Central America, places like Honduras, Guatemala, Mexico.

They trade that for drugs or for, you know, like when they don't have a payment for a big load of coke, they will say like, "Okay, we'll give you guns. You give us the coke and we'll take it north and sell it." So sometimes it's like a trade. Those guns are fucking everywhere, man.

It's really confusing to see that many guns and that easy access in Mexico, a place where it's impossible to get a proper firearm like myself. I mean, to me, to get a hold of a firearm in Mexico, it will be super hard. I will have to be in a hunting club or go through a lot of fucking bureaucracy to actually get approved for a permit to carry.

And I wouldn't be able to carry a 9mm or a rifle. It would be just like a shitty gun, I guess. So yeah, it's kind of weird. I mean, in the U.S., I could have a gun. I don't even know how to use one, so I need to learn. How would people, I mean, do you think...

Mexican citizens would want access to be able to protect themselves. It's been a debate like Recent debate and it's always in in people's opinion, you know, like it's very divided. It's very split Half of the people say like we don't need guns what we need is for a corruption to end mm-hmm, because without corruption you will have a state of law and those people getting illegal weapons will stop and

Many of those guys believe that the responsibility is in Mexico half in the u.s. The other half it's like your Your freedom to get guns is hurting us, you know Some of the other guys are like we should be more like the US where you can access guns where you can actually fight back You know where where I can protect my family with a gun of those guys because if they get to you, I

I'm still not sure where I stand, to be honest, on that matter, because I'm very in both worlds. I can get one in El Paso, which is like Texas, the gun culture is very open. But at the same time, I know what they do. I know what they mean for Mexico. And I've seen my friends killed by those guns and all that stuff. So

So I still don't know where I stand. - You're on the fence. - Exactly, because on one side I said, "Yes, of course, on what I'm doing, "because of what I'm doing especially, "I should have one to protect my family." Because I never know when a motherfucker's gonna come up.

when I'm gonna have to fight back. But at the same time, it's like, do I wanna engage in a shootout? Do I wanna engage into that? 'Cause I know if I kill that guy or that couple of guys that got into me, there's gonna be more coming. There's gonna be more coming. They're gonna get mad, they're gonna get angrier, they're gonna go like again.

So, I don't know. You know, when I think about my family, how to protect them, I feel that the best way to protect them is sometimes not talk a lot about what I do, a lot of details of what I see, of what I hear, of my cell phone.

My wife, she gets sketchy because I'm always protecting my cell phone. Of course, she believes that it's another girl. I can see that could become an issue. Exactly. Especially when you're partying with a cartel. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes she believes the worst for her. She believes this motherfucker is talking to another girl. But most of the time, don't get me wrong, most of the time,

It's not like that. Most of the time is I don't want her to see some pictures. I don't want her to see some messages. I don't want her to see who is sending me messages because I don't feel comfortable with her knowing who I'm talking with. The other is living in El Paso. The other is trying to get the heat out when I'm covering an interesting story, a hardcore story.

Not going straight home and take my kid out in the same car and drive around. It's just like I'm going to be away for a couple of days until I feel the heat is out. I try to reach back to my sources after the story is out. And so like, hey, we're good? Are we cool? Is everything good? Do you feel something shady? There's been two times where things haven't been cool at all where I reach back and the wife of my source will answer and it's like they killed him.

Like oh fuck and I feel like you know like shit. I feel like shit. I feel like it's my responsibility I feel like his life is on my hands and and Yeah, those times are like oh my fucking god because at the same time I'm I'm feeling Responsibility for that and at the same time I'm feeling fear for my own life like if they got to him are they mad at me, too Yeah, are they angry at me too? so

Those kind of stuff are the ones that gets you up at night, you know like that like you stay all night thinking like should I'll be Doing something or would that be overreacting, you know, I don't want to have my family all nervous all the time Yeah, but at the same time I need to protect them. So sometimes I fall. Yeah, how did these deals go down? These arms deals that you what was your role there? They why did they let you witness a?

Because I hold the old go down because I wanted that There's a lot of stuff in the news that just repeats keeps repeating, you know like talking points and people keeps repeating the u.s This is the US fault and the narcos are getting guns and the narcos are getting just like big weapons. It's like okay Yeah, yeah, but what does that mean? Like how do they get the guns and who and why and our cartels inside the US and

are cartels properly buying guns in the US? Or is it just like a regular one trying to make some bucks and they don't see the harm in selling those guns to a cartel? I wanted to understand that. I wanted to really get close to that and to understand what was on. And what I found out is like in general cartels are not a structure, like you know, like a vertical structure. They're more like a horizontal structure now.

You don't have a big bus and then another sort of like chief and then like a bunch of sicarios and then like a bunch of whatever. It's all horizontal right now. That's why a lot of the law enforcement don't get, you know, that's why some of their operations don't get the results they are expecting. When you grab a kingpin,

He was just part of that horizontal structure. It was not the boss. You didn't cut the head of the snake. You just cut a chunk. And the snake can grow a tail again. So it works like that. And the arms deals are exactly like that. There was once where the big boss would call his people in the US or whatever and say, "I need guns." "Alright, let's buy guns. There you go, boss. Your guns."

All right, you're still on payroll. You're still getting the same money. But right now it's like, I need guns. We're getting out of guns.

What do we do? And it's like, okay, I have a plug in the US. I have a cousin that he's a US citizen. He can get a gun for us or several. All right, try it out. And he's like, yeah, but he wants to, he's gonna buy, I don't know, an AK for 500 bucks, but he's gonna sell it to us triple the price for 15K, 15,000, 100, sorry.

And someone will say, "Yes, all right, yeah, just give that. Just bring it back." And they will, you know, like one guy is like, "Okay, and what's my commission for crossing it over?" "Okay, you get 300 bucks." And then the guy who takes us all the way to Sinaloa is like, "How much for transporting this to Sinaloa?" "300 bucks." "All right, there you go." And then, you know, so it's a horizontal chain. It's not a big structure.

So everybody's making money out of that. Everybody's making money out of a gun deal. And that's interesting. That's interesting because when you say something like the US has responsibility, well, the US just made 500 bucks on that. Someone else made another 500 and someone else made 300 and someone else made another 300.

for that gun to reach the hand of the guy who's going to kill a bunch of people. So most of my money is still staying in Mexico. And it's not entering a legal economy. So, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what you're saying is it's not one major...

Deal that's happening. It's onesies and twosies and just thousands and thousands of people that are making that are making 300 500 a small amount of a nominal amount of money, you know for one one one exactly Yeah I am I talked to a guy in Juarez also and he's like I found that if I if I if I travel to the US to like Dallas to a gun show they will sell guns to me like that and

And I would just take him back into Mexico before Fast and Furious and all that stuff. It was like more, you know, easy to travel back into Mexico without being searched. So it was like I found that I would just like travel back to Chihuahua.

It's like nine hours from Juarez to Dallas, nine hours back, and then four hours to Chihuahua, and I will make $1,000 for one gun every weekend. So it's like, hmm, I might bring three, and it's $3,000 on one weekend, and the next weekend again, the next weekend again, the next weekend again. And he made a good living out of that, you know, like $3,000 in Mexico can be like every weekend, can be like something to start something, you know? Yeah.

I guess that's another reason why maybe, you know, securing the border a little bit more might be beneficial for both countries. Exactly. The thing is, the thing is when you secure the border on the Mexican side, like right now they're changing the Mexican IRS, which is called SAT. Those were the guys in charge of customs.

They're so corrupted man like they're that one of the most corrupted organizations government organizations in Mexico So they were like, okay, we're gonna change that to the military The military is not it's not that corrupt but it's known for stepping on human rights, you know So so it's like I don't know if that's gonna work. I don't know if that's gonna work actually, um

I think corruption in general needs to change because corruption is what's killing us in Mexico. It's not the U.S., it's not this and that, it's not open or closed borders. I think what's killing us is corruption.

That's what is keeping us safe on this side of the border. Your corruption levels are there, but at higher levels, like higher officials, it's going to be hard for you to get out of a ticket giving 20 bucks to a traffic police officer. There's no way you can give them 20 bucks for that guy to leave you alone. But in Mexico, you can get away with that. And that's exactly what is killing us. Corruption is...

is inside the whole system. It's a system. Corruption is not inside the system. Corruption is a system in itself. And that's what is killing us. You can put all of the military out in the streets, all of the DEAs you want, close all the borders you want,

But as long as the corruption is still a system operating in Mexico, there's going to be a way for people to benefit from legal or illegal activities. Yeah. Well, let's move into the DEA deal. Of course, man. I'm dying to hear about this. Well, you know, the Sinaloa cartel has been one of the biggest cartels in Mexico for a good while. You know, it started with the Sinaloa Federation, Federación de Sinaloa.

where the Juarez cartel leader was, the Beltran Leivas and all that stuff. And even since then, they've been trying to cut deals, or they've been cutting deals with the DEA. I guess the DEA is eager to keep arresting kingpins and busting drug loads, that they break deals with them. But these Mexican narcos, at the same time, they are so naive that they think that they're going to actually benefit from that, that they're going to

leave off of that deal. El Vicentillo is the son of El Mayo Zambada, which allegedly is the leader of the Sinaloa Cartel right now. After they arrested El Chapo, the only one, there's only one picture of him, and no one knows where the fuck he is, is El Mayo Zambada. So, supposedly, he's the boss of the Sinaloa Cartel. Although, you and I know they don't work like that anymore.

But he's somewhat like a figure, you know, like a respected figure. He's been hiding forever. There's only one picture of him taken by this Mexican magazine, Proceso, because the director of that magazine interviewed him a while ago. And El Vicentillo is his son. And he tried in 2000—they don't really say when, but it's between 2010 and 2012— he tried to break a deal with the DEA in Mexico City.

He got in touch with the DA and he's like, "All right, this is my proposal. I'm going to give you guys intel on the other cartels so you can arrest like all others, but you let me work freely." And the DA is like, "Yeah, let's do that, man. All right, sounds good. All right, deal, deal. All right, bye-bye." They left, and as soon as he left, he got arrested and extradited to the U.S. So he's recently free.

He walked out recently because he snitched on his own dad, on Elmayo Zambada. He called him from prison. He broke a deal with the DEA, with the U.S. government, to snitch on the whole Sinaloa cartel. That's what got El Chapo arrested, like that guy snitching on the whole organization. He's free. Obviously, the U.S. recommended him not to go back to Mexico. No one knows where he is. Of course, I don't think it's a good idea for him to go back to Mexico.

But he might be operating again. He might be back at it again somehow with his dad or not. Who knows? The thing is I learned that these deals have been going on still with the Sinaloa Cartel, with some other members, with some other people. And now the Jalisco Nueva Generación, which is the ruthless cartel growing up and is huge.

financial reach is three times more than the Sinaloa cartel. It's huge. Now they're trying to break a deal with the DEA. Now they're meeting DEA agents. Now they are saying like, "We can get you el mayo, we can get you this and that from Sinaloa cartel if you let us walk free." And I don't know, I'm not sure, I can't confirm for a fact, but for what they say, the Jalisco, it's working. They said like,

The deal is working man. The deal is ongoing. That's how we're getting shit tons of firearms like we've never seen before they just recently posted a video on social and it's a full army they have Tanks they have this kind of like rhinos Like armored vehicles. Yeah, they have like rocket launchers. They have rpgs how like So you're saying that the dea

trading weapons for Kingpins for info. Yeah, and normally that I also know that they've been well not specifically a DA but the DA is in the middle of that the US government has been giving out green cards to some of them some of the cartel members some of the people who is on the record killing more than 20 30 40 people in Mexico and they're giving out green cards in the middle of

of a moment where there are a lot of people from Latin America trying to desperately enter the U.S. And they're stuck in places like Juarez. The U.S. is giving out green cards to narcos in exchange for something so shitty as a statement in court where it's all fixed. They say the exact same thing. "You know that guy?" "Yes." "Can you point where the narco whatever is?" "It's that guy." "Was he the leader of the organization?" "He was."

Did he ask you to, you know, traffic drugs? Yeah, he did. All right. There you have it. Cuinca for you, your wife, your kids, and some money. Wow. It's like, dude, that's so unfair. That's a policy that is not only unfair, but it's also unethical, you know, in Mexico. Have you personally witnessed any of that? Yes, I personally witnessed that, yes, on a court in El Paso, on one of the...

allegedly leaders of the Juarez cartel. I personally saw that. I personally spoke with a lawyer who showed me the deals the US government was breaking on that case and who these people were on the organization of Juarez. I even saw the record of statements they did and at the beginning they said like, "This is not that guy." And then it's like,

and it's like no this is yeah it is that guy like they did the wrong statement and someone told him like that's the wrong statement you need to say that's the guy okay sorry yeah this is the guy and they're getting green cards wow it's it's crazy man it's crazy how they are operating or honestly it's not

It's not news why the U.S. is having a backlash on a bunch of people from Mexico, Central America, South America arriving at the border desperate, asking for help. It's backlash of some of those policies where you protect narcos for your own good, for your own benefit.

But this protected a lot of people. - Do you think there are maybe some things that you might be missing as far as what the government's doing to these guys? Maybe they give them a green card, but maybe they're also turning them into an informant, keeping them going, still running them as an asset. - Cool B. - And continuing to get information out even though they're in the US. - Cool B, man, cool B. 'Cause I mean, there's another story I published in 2013, I think.

On the guy who delivered El Chapo was a doctor. He didn't have any relationship with the cartels. He just happened to live in Ciudad Juarez and had a neighbor who was the right arm in the state for El Chapo. He got into some kind of fight with them. He threatened his wife and his kids, so he decided to snitch on him on an international bridge.

He arrived at an international bridge, he's like, "Hey, I know a guy who works very high up in the Sinaloa organization." So they were like, "Yeah, whatever. Just get the fuck out." And then he called 911 and he tried hard. He went to the Mexican government, military. No one will believe him. And then he said he arrived to the U.S. consulate in Juarez saying that he had a bomb on him. So they grabbed him.

Took him in and it was like, "No, I don't have a bomb." So they searched him and read his background and whatever. He said, "Then what the fuck are you doing here?" He's like, "I have some information that I want to tell you." So he started sharing, "This guy does this and that. And his right arm is in charge of all of this stuff and all that shit." So they arrested that guy.

They went for him in a hotel in Juarez when he arrived with his wife. He just stepped out of his car and someone arrived behind him. He's like, "Hey, let's go get up." And he's like, "Oh shit, I don't know if this is cartel or government." So he just went up the car. And I know that because of the Asuras in the Interpol described me the whole operation to get that guy.

And he's like, he didn't put any resistance, just got up the van. And then he asked like, "Who is this?" And I was like, "It's the US government." He was like, "Oh my God, yeah, thank God." So they took him, they took this doctor into the US and gave him protection and other identity, an S visa, which it's a piece of for stitch basically. But then they told him like, "Do you have any more information you can share with us?" And he's like, "No man, I'm not inside the cartel."

And he's like, "Okay, if you don't have more information, we're going to revoke your S visa because that's only for these purposes. And you're going to go back to Mexico." So he was like super desperate. That's where he called me. That's where he's like, "Dude, I'm desperate. I gave this all information to those guys and I don't know what to do. And I want to reach out to the media." So I started following his story.

And in the middle of that story, he managed to find or to get the phone number of a woman who was with El Chapo at all times. And he said like, "This is her phone number. I'm handing it to the DA. The DA knows where she is, where El Chapo is." And that's how El Chapo got arrested the first time. He got arrested. Even then, they still threatened this guy to send him back to Mexico. They were like, "Okay, what else?"

And he's like, "I just gave you El Chapo, man. This was your operation. It was not a Mexican operation." And he's like, "All right, but what else do you have to keep your ass visa?" So he felt like he was disposable. Like he was totally disposable. Like I'm an informant. I'm giving out good information. They should just leave me alone. But they didn't. And I know he's hiding still from the DA and from the narcos inside the U.S. - Interesting. - Yeah.

you can't blame him yeah if he's got information it's gonna save lives yeah you know and uh we just went through you know that some mexicans are pissed off because arms are being tracked traffic down there you know from the us well now you have a guy who has a ton of information you know

Yeah, and I feel... Because information could save a lot of lives. Exactly. And I feel that my responsibility in all that is to shed light into how stuff really works. Not talking points. Not blaming governments. Not blaming...

Whatever policy it is what it is. It's like this is how it was more information. Exactly. This is how it works. Yeah, it's not Structure, it's not an evil plan from the US like fluid Mexico with fucking guns that they kill each other. Yeah This is how it's going on. There's people making money out of it, especially in the pan during the pandemic, you know Yeah, I appreciate that everybody has to put a spin on shit these days and yeah, you know, you can't just present information anymore and

You're still doing it. That's awesome. Yeah, a lot of stuff going on down there, man. I'm trying to find the ties that ties us, you know, the U.S. and Mexico. I live at the border. I'm a border kid. So I live, I report in Spanish, write in English. I meet people like you. I interview people like you in English and report in Spanish, back and forth all the time.

back and forth all the time. And I received a hit from both sides. I received a hit from Mexico because I write in English. And they said like, "Oh, you fucking sell out." And I received a hit from the U.S. because I report and write in Spanish. It's like, "Oh, you fucking Mexican. You're just like, just talking bullshit about the U.S. and Mexico."

And I received the heat from Trump supporters and from Biden supporters. And I received the heat from Mexican President AMLO supporters and the opposition. I received the heat from everybody because I'm not in the business of putting out my opinion. I'm in the business of showing things as they are. And some things are good about Trump. Some things are bad about Trump. Some things are good about Biden. Some things are bad about Biden.

It's just the way things are, you know? 'Cause I'm not trying to put the nice light on any president or on any government. I'm trying to tell it how it is and not put my voice in it. Just say like, I went there, talked to these people,

and this is how it works yeah that's it i appreciate that i really do thanks man but um you have anything else you want to talk about when it comes to the arms deal i think i think that's that's pretty much pretty much it man perfect let's take another break and then let's get into some drugs let's do it all right let's get into some fentanyl

All right, so we kind of went through some of the arms trafficking and some of the deals that you were a part of, not a part of, were able to report on. And big correction there. Don't put me into the mix. I have the ATF standing outside the door waiting for the car. It's like, no, no, no. It's like you're on the record.

But you also recently went and you were able to report on and actually go into a lab that was making fentanyl. So where was that? We've got some great videos that you gave us that we're going to put in here. So while we're talking about this, you'll be seeing photographs and videos of the actual lab. But go ahead and...

Let's hear what you got. So as fentanyl started ramping in the US, being a proper issue, I also wanted to know where does it start? Where is it being made? And how? And who's making it? I reached out to one of my sources in Sinaloa, of course, this guy who always comes through. And I asked him if I could be on a fentanyl lab.

And he told me it was kind of hard because the fentanyl labs now they're not set up as before. Before they would like rent or buy a warehouse and establish an ongoing lab. But because of the busts, the Mexican government has been busting labs. They are making like these small labs on the go in the middle of nowhere. And they work quick overnight.

take everything, destroy the rest, and leave. And they're gone. And they're gone. So I told him, like, I know it sounds like a letter to Santa Claus, but I wanted to ask you if we can actually follow the whole process. Like, if you find that someone's going to be cooking, I want to know, I want to be there for the preparation. Like, how they set up, you know, for that.

And he's like, you're asking for too much because it's not like, obviously they don't share, they don't announce like, okay, we're going to set up a fucking fentanyl lab, you know? So it's like, so it's going to be hard. And I'm like, okay, I'm just going to go down to Culiacán

and wait there for your signal. So I did. Culiacan is a beautiful city, man. You really have to go there. It's a nice city, nice weather, nice people, nice places to eat, great seafood. So I spent a couple of days just eating seafood, having beers, and walking and swimming at the hotel pool until I got the signal from this guy that said, like, all right,

picking you up at the hotel and we're driving off to the outskirts of Culiacan in the middle of nowhere. And I'm like, "Okay, I'll follow your lead." He knows me and he knows that I don't go without a safety protocol. So I just jumped in and we started driving, taking off. And I asked him, "Can I start recording from now?"

And he said, "No, no, no, no, no, no, because the road might be, you know, like someone kind of knows where we are or where we're headed." So no road at all. I'm like, "Okay." I was with a film crew for Vice World News. So there was a cameraman, a host, and I told the cameraman, like, "Just don't, because he's a white, almost reddish,

British guy he doesn't look like he's super tall and I was like just undress dangerously you know just don't do anything stupid exactly I give you dress I don't know like hipster-y yeah then you're good you know if you dress like a skateboarder you're good whatever just don't dress in a dangerous way

I guess he didn't understand what a dangerous way was because he was full-on DA agent. Oh, man. Khaki cargo pants, like these black tactical boots, sort of like short boots, not the long boots. Glasses, you know, like these kind of like dark glasses. Green military cap and a backpack. No, like, dude, really, you all did yourself today. You don't even dress like that on a regular basis, you know? Yeah.

And I'm like, "Alright, so let's go. Let's hope that's not going to be an issue." And he was like super worried about that. He's like, "Do you really feel that I just can't jump out and just don't go?" And I'm like, "No man, you have to go. You're the camera operator, so let's go."

We went there, we arrived into a very small town, like dirt roads and everything. And from there, we met another guy, another couple of guys, grab a pickup truck, put us in the back, and started driving off in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of nowhere. So it was really in the middle of the woods. And then from there, we met another guys on motorcycles, and they started driving the motorcycles into the woods, and we started walking.

until they found a place where they have taken out a lot of trees. They started setting up a lab right there. Some of the stuff is in the pictures I sent you, like these huge burials or something like that. A lot of precursors, a lot of chemicals, like a stove, like a man-made stove.

and like a small roof, you know, like a tent. And we obviously had masks on, not like the regular face masks, like proper gas masks. Those guys didn't have anything, like anything. And there was like an old guy and it's like, okay, he's the cook. Our boss brought someone from China to teach him how to cook this shit.

And I'm like, wow, that's interesting. And it's like, how many people knows that? And it was like, just like a couple, just like two guys in the organization can know how to properly cook. And I'm like, okay. And then I started like talking to him. It's like very quiet. He didn't really want to talk. He was like too shy with the camera. It was the man from China on

the lab or he had come in and taught a group of people how to do this apparently he just teach that guy and that guy showed another guy and then Apparently what goes on is like they had to show or to teach another two guys in case they die There's another two guys, but just like pairs of two keep learning about how to cook but it was just once where these Chinese came and

Show this guy how to properly cook fentanyl and the fentanyl like the proper Powder like fentanyl in powder the precursors to cook it come from China or from Germany and they Really take care of that shit like if that was cold they bring them in in a box with one one-armed guy And it's always looking at that bag, and it's always like okay. That's too much don't waste it and

put it back, lock it in, and that guy's always like taking care of that stuff, like the precursors. - Fentanyl is possibly the most addictive drug on the planet. - Yes, exactly. It's an opioid and it's a pandemic in the US now because it's really hurting bad. Like not only there are people, you know,

drug addicts or people in the street, but also moms, dads, working people, regular people. It's killing a lot of people because a lot of drugs are being laced with fentanyl. And those guys, that's what amazed me. While they were cooking, while they were setting up, I was asking, how do you move from one business to another? How do you move from cooking heroin to lace it with fentanyl?

How do you move from that to pure fentanyl? How do you move from that to meth? You were dealing with marijuana not long ago. And one of those guys was telling me if it was a proper established business. Clients in the US, they tell us, they started telling us that the heroin we were giving them wasn't strong enough. So we had some small drops of fentanyl into that.

And they liked it. But a year went by and they're like, "It's not strong enough." So we added some more. And now we're adding like a lot. So like this could kill a huge animal, you know? And they're liking it. They're liking it. We're getting good feedback from our users. And like you have like a feedback system on how to make drugs. How? Like did someone call you or your boss or whatever? It's like, "No, no, no." Like the street vendors.

When they're selling they're like, "Hey, you know what? It's not selling good because my client says that there's a stronger heroin around the corner with the old guys. So we need to bring this one stronger." So he says the guy he buys from and that guy from the guy he buys from and he goes all the way back to that cooker. - Interesting. - To the cook. And so, yeah, it's like I just received the orders like,

Put more fentanyl into that heroin. It's not strong enough now and he does I always wondered I thought it was a little counterproductive to make the drug so strong because so many people are dying but now I understand if it's a media feedback from the users to the Cookers exactly. Yeah, because it wouldn't make sense like that's what I understand that like, okay So these guys yeah, because it would make sense for these guys to be killing their clients in the US, you know, I

It wouldn't make sense for them to be actually like, yeah, just have it super strong so they fucking die or not overdose. They know that and they talk about that. And so we don't use this shit. We don't use any of this shit that's fucking strong. Those guys are crazy. I'm like, you guys are cooking it. You guys are crazy. And it's like, yeah, but we don't use that. Those guys are asking for stronger shit every time, more and more. And I'm like, but they're dying.

And I was like, "I know, but that's what they want. If they want to kill themselves, that's on them. I'm getting paid to cook." And I'm like, "Wow, that was revealing, you know? That was like really something, like how they actually see the issue." Because we think, we tend to think that these guys are like the bad guys, you know, like putting fentanyl and cooking and say like, "Yeah, they're gonna die in the US." They're actually like, "Wow, that's strong. I don't know if they should be using this shit, you know?"

So they laced a bunch of stuff, chloride or I don't know, like a bunch of stuff they put into that mix. And then they start, you know, like just mixing it. But you get the fumes and they're like strong fucking fumes. I was wearing one of those masks. I mean, it was awful. It was bad. You could still smell it. You could still smell it. You could still feel, you know, the trees around the area.

We're all dead like around that specific area. They were all like from right from the from the fumes Yeah, like specific in a specific circle all that like all fucking brown dad No, I thought that was just the environment when I was looking at the videos. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you'll see that They're all dead. They're all that it's only around that you walk like a couple of feet from there and it's green again like green leaves and

Healthy treats Wow, but it's that strong. It's not crazy and that's for a couple of batches only how much how much fun all does a couple of batches look like is it is it Well what they were cooking there they used the bag of the precursor to make fentanyl was a bag like that Fill up to the middle and they used like a corner of that, you know The rest was a lot of other shit with heroin and I don't know what I

And then they make this paste. When they cook it, they cook the whole like a broth and then they leave it to dry. And then when it's dry, it's like a paste, like a brownish paste. They told me that the quantity they used into that of the precursors were worth like 200 bucks, 300 bucks, something like that. And what it was in the bag, when it was dry,

In Mexico, it was like 20 grand. In the US, it was like 100, 120, 200 grand. So he's like, "We have a lot of money here." And I'm like, "Shit." And I was like, "So what if the government comes right now?" So we just burn everything and just grab the gold. Just this, this is the worth. The precursor and this shit. Let's go. Everything else, just burn it. They took me to another place around

All burnt out. And I was like, "Yeah, someone told us the military is on its way." So I had to burn everything. Grab the shit and go. We were going to make the double, like twice the batch with either, but we only managed to do one before they came. So that's why we're cooking this second batch to make it for that. And I'm like, "Okay, and then from here, what's next?"

It's like from here the boss shows up. Apparently the boss was the brother of the old cook. And he's like, "Yeah, my brother is very intelligent, man. Not like me. I'm only a cook. And I love marijuana. I love to harvest marijuana. Have a beautiful, beautiful crop of beautiful weed, man. Good quality, all natural. I want to show." He was so proud of his weed crop.

But he didn't like working into that, but I was paying the bills. And he felt like he was supporting his brother. He was like, my brother came out with this idea. Like, okay, we can cook this shit. I can find a proper supplier in China. I'm going to bring it. You're going to cook it. I'm going to export it. And we're going to make shit tons of money. And I was like, is he? And he was like, yeah, he's making shit tons of money. Like,

Because he doesn't take it all the way to the U.S. What he does is he sells it to someone he doesn't even know. But there's a transport in the middle who just, he just pays that. Like, okay, I'm going to send this quantity of fentanyl to the U.S.,

alright, it's gonna be 2,000 grand and he takes requests from everybody so he carries a Cessna or a car it depends with a lot of

from different NACOs, you know, it's like have this meth. That's why they were like putting a name on the badge. - Oh shit, so he's delivering to all the cartels. - So delivery guy, he's like, okay, yeah, I'm taking from Sinaloa to the border. - That's not the cook though, that's the transporter? - No, that's the cook, he just cooks. And then he gets everything ready, his brother arrives, takes the badge already in bricks to the delivery guy.

All branded. It's like, okay, it's like six bricks of this shit under my name. Off you go. There's your money. And he's like, okay, I have a trip to Mexicali. Who else is going to send me shit? And then another guy jumps in. I have some meth, I have some coke, I have some weed. There you go.

So these cooks, do they have direct ties to the cartels? Or is it direct tie to the transporter who has direct ties to the cartels? That's exactly what I was telling you before on how the structure works now. This guy represents a cartel, but it's like a brand. It's like if you open up a shop of Nike sneakers here, you're not necessarily part of the Nike corporation, you know?

you have a store selling that brand. So these guys are representing a brand, but not a cartel. It's a franchise. It's a franchise. So these guys are like, okay, I get the protection from the cartel. They are allowing me to cook here. They are giving me some assets. And I am delivering drugs for them. My job is to cook.

and to send. So that's an extremely small operation. Yes. So how are they making connections with the Chinese

Come over and teach them how to cook if it's such a small organization through the cartel outfit That's where the big organization comes in, you know, like the big bosses are like the big people and say facilitated exactly like this guy the brother of the cook he knew a guy from the Sinaloa cartel higher up dealing with money laundering like higher operations, you know like Arms trafficking. It was a trafficking Chinese into Mexico with fake Mexican

And that was the deal. Like, okay, you give me precursors, I'll smuggle your people into my country. So they're bringing Chinese with precursors into Mexico. Wow. It's a whole fucking operation, man. So he knew that guy. And he's like, hey, man, my brother can cook. I can operate that part of the business. And I'll just be selling you the badges. What do you think?

And he's like, yeah, that's a good idea. All right, I'm going to bring out a cook from China who knows how to cook that shit. He's going to show you. And you start and start selling me those batches. And he's like, yeah, let's set it up. So they set up that cook, that kitchen. How many of these little, if you have an estimation, that'd be great. If not, that's fine too. But yeah, these little labs. Dude, there are...

Like I guess like it only in the outskirts of Culiacan You can count them by the hundreds every day every day like how many like by the hundreds by the hundreds by the hundreds like a hundred So lab 200 300 glass working at same time Wow and then disappearing and then the next day popping up Somewhere different and then disappearing and then popping out somewhere different. They're cooking this every day every single day. How long does it take them? I

We arrived there around 11:00 in the morning or so and we left by 6:00 ish Yeah before sunset so around like six seven hours to cook like a batch that words 200k in the US so like so every six hours They're like again. They're producing $100,000 worth of fentanyl. Oh

And the cook was telling me that another set of cooks recently died. It's like, they die, like, if they don't, if they don't, because he wasn't talking. He wasn't, like, he was, like, super quiet. But then someone offered him Coke, and then he started, like, talking. We actually were, like, cranking when we were, like, editing the video.

the vice crew and I was just laughing all through the night because he transformed, you know? He was super quiet, super not shy. And then he goes like, "So then, yeah, you have to use this shit." So it's like, "Oh my God." Yeah, he started talking a lot. And so he started talking about his brother, about his crops, about all this stuff.

And about how most of the cooks don't last more than two months. They keep dying every two months so that he has to teach someone else. Why are they dying? Because of the fumes. The poison? Yeah. He's like, that's why I use Coke to balance the effects of the fentanyl. That doesn't sound right at all.

Think you got it wrong man. I don't think the cocaine is gonna help out that you're getting more chemicals into your body and they end up all like cold and you know Affected by the fentanyl they end up and they drink a lot drink. It's like you gotta you gotta keep hydrated man That's why we got bunch of beers

and bottles of tequila. They had Don Julio right there. I was like drinking Don Julio and burst. And the fumes and the coke, it's like, wow, man. You really end up with Jordan like super intoxicated from here. Damn. Two-month life expectancy. Exactly, yeah. And surrounded by a couple of armed people that are just there sitting, bored, talking, drinking, you know, like when they're over, they just like escort the shit to where it has to go.

- Dude, what kind of drugs are they, they're lacing, what kind of drugs with fentanyl? And can you get just straight fentanyl? - Yes, they're doing straight fentanyl, like pills and that kind of shit. And they're lacing heroin and meth with fentanyl. - Not coke? - Not coke, not for what I saw there, not for what I learned there. I don't know, I mean, they might be doing, but when I was there, it was only a batch of heroin, a batch of meth too.

to take into the US. It was very interesting to learn how does that work, how unstructured the organizations are. Another guy in Mexicali at the border, we followed the route, so we met with the guy in charge of the stash house where that drug was going to be stashed before jumping into the US. You followed the product to the stash house? To the stash house.

And then, I mean, not like... That specific product, you just followed a product? No, we knew where that was going to be stashed, so we arrived there two days later. Okay. So we went there to that stash house and talked to that guy. So like, okay, so what's the next process of this drug? And he's like, right now what I'm doing is putting everything into Ziplocs vacuum sealed. And then I wash them with...

detergent, you know, to like this suavitel it's called in Mexico. So it smells like roses and the dogs wouldn't smell it. And when he's all washed up, I'm going to put it in a car that is going to arrive here. And all right, so. And then in the middle of the interview and everything, a couple, like a man and a woman, like nicely dressed in a nice car, showed up to that fucking stash house. And they were like very curious, like,

"Who are these guys with cameras here?" And they were like, "Oh, it's any of you. They're reporters from the U.S." And they were like, "Can we stay here a little?" And they were like having fun watching us, taking us pictures. And then they went into our room and then they left. And I was like, "Who's those people?" It was like, "Oh, they are the laundry, launderers. They came here to deliver some stacks of bugs. We count them with a machine, stash them, and they left."

I'm like, oh wow, that's interesting too. And I'm like, all right, so and then what you do? So it's like, okay, we're gonna wait for the car. It's like, okay, is that like part of the cartel, car, someone? It's like, no, no, no. The borders are closed for most Mexican residents. So we're exclusively using US citizens. Like the people who is out of work

We started recruiting them in the US. Like, "Hey, do you want to make 500 bucks to 1,000 in an afternoon?" And sometimes they say, "Yes." "All right, okay." So you just show up in Mexicali and we'll have a load on your car. We're not going to tell you where it is. And then you're going to deliver that. Leave the keys of your car in the parking lot. We're going to take it. We're going to get back. And you're good to go.

So that afternoon, a woman arrived, a woman speaking perfect English. She was from California in a Mercedes, old Mercedes Benz. She was like, yeah, I've been doing this for a good while. And I'm like, why? She's like, I have five kids, my mother's job because of the pandemic, and someone offered me this job. So, yeah, I make two or three trips a day.

Wow. And I'm like, wow, that's interesting. And how come they don't stop you at the border? And she's like, because even the days I don't carry loads, I still cross. Because my story is I work in Mexico and I live in the U.S. She's made a cover story. Sticks to it. She's created an entire pattern of life. Yeah, exactly. And so we followed her.

They put the stuff in her car. We followed her and she got secondary She got what secondary? Oh, she was like a secondary inspection when they send you to these booths and they put like x-rays and dogs and The CBP officers the customs are like looking all over your car They didn't find anything nothing nothing nothing. That was like without like oh shit, I

They got her. And we met her at a motel on the other side. And we were like, what the fuck? You just got secondary. She was like, yeah, honestly, I thought I was like done, but I didn't find anything. And I'm like, wow, that's fucking crazy. And he was like, are you afraid? She's like, yeah, every time is the last time. Every time I do this is the last time I'm going to do it. But I can't stop because it's good money. And I don't have any other source of income.

So I don't know if that when the pandemic restrictions are lifted, I don't know if she actually got a proper job and got out of that. Wow. Hopefully. What would happen to you guys if you were at that fentanyl lab? I don't think anything because we're not carrying anything with us. We're not being part of the operation, the business. We're just filming there. I guess what will happen is

They might be interested in talking to us to see if we can stage say something locations names but other than that, I don't think there's a There's anything they could actually do to us When we had to take a flight from LA where I had to take a fight from from LA I ditched all of my clothes into the trash being because it smells so strong of I don't know ugly yeah, like super fucking strong and

So I put everything in the trash and I was like, "Yeah, I'm ready to fly back again home." Because this stinks and I'm tired and it was intense. You have to be on top of your mind all the time, on top of everything. On top of our production and also on top of the safety of yourself and everybody else on your crew. One guy was from Brazil, the other guy was from Colombia, the other guy was from the UK.

um when we crossed the border the officer was like what is this like a un car oh yeah yeah it was like a mexican and brazilian a guy from the uk and a colombian in the same car it's like the is this damn that's interesting yeah that's extremely interesting it was it was very interesting it was a it was a nice access it was an interesting access

Into how does that? work works, you know, yeah and and what it's doing to killing some lives in the US many lives and Getting some people alive like that girl like providing for her family for kids What is all this gonna be made into it's a documentary which is already in Vice world news I'll show you the link. What's it called? It's called

It's called something like it's a short documentary called how the US know how Mexican cartels are using US citizens to smuggle drugs or something like very newsy, you know, it's like a It's like a report, you know, not like a proper full-on documentary. It's like a 10 10 15 minutes piece. Okay Yeah, I'd love to watch it. I love yeah, I'll definitely send you the link and it's interesting we embedded with the Mexican police because we know that Mexicali is huge for

labs, they denied everything. They said like, no, there's actually no labs here, man. Like this is one of the cleanest city in terms of lab operations. We obviously didn't say like we just been into one. It's like, oh really? No shit. It's like, yeah. And this is like, he kept talking and talking. I'm like, so then what are we doing? Cause we discussed like you were going to go into a, an operative and we kind of met with you.

It's like, yeah, we have an operative, permanent operatives going through the city to find, you know, stuff. And I was like, okay, so we spend four hours finding people with a small weed cigarette. And he's like, stop right there. You look suspicious. And they were like, and it was like, okay, so these guys are just putting up a show for the cameras. We're going to cut all that out because this is bullshit, you know. Yeah. Yeah.

It was interesting to be in that place. Very interesting. Let's take another quick break. Let's do it.

Luis, I kind of want to wrap this interview up, but you've taken part in quite a few documentaries and I kind of want to, what are those documentaries? I want to link them below so people can kind of see your work and what you've been involved in. Definitely. So I've been working for some documentaries in Vice World News. I'll share you the links so you can put them out there. Mostly like reporting on documentaries

10-15 minute pieces. Like mini-docs? Yeah, like mini-docs on the beats I cover. For CNN, I did some interesting stuff with a human smuggler. He allowed us to follow him all through from his safe house to the border, until he put people together and why is he doing it, how much is charging.

Also, I've been doing some more like blown version documentaries like the one on Showtime. It's called Ready for War on deported veterans who end up working for cartels in Mexico. And some serious like dope in Netflix, the Mexican part of that series, I've helped produce that.

I'm in the middle of production for two short documentaries for Vice as well, one on weaponized drones in Mexico, the cartels are weaponizing drones, and the other one about how the Mexican drug traffickers, specifically the Sinaloa cartel, is using Mexican indigenous people to run drugs across the border in long desert stretches. Wow.

That's a lot of stuff you're involved in. What would be one that you're probably most, do you have one that you are most proud of? I mean, it depends because every time I jump into a new project,

That's one that I'm most excited about. So right now the indigenous issue, I'm very, very excited about that one because it's been a story that I've been hearing and covering for a while now. I just did a story on that, a written story talking to some of them, reviewing court documents on their arrests, talking to some of the bad guys and some of the good guys on what's going on with these indigenous people and why are they running drugs.

and how climate change is a big part of it. And so that becoming a documentary, I'm really excited about that one. Interesting.

How can people find you? I'm very active in Twitter and on Instagram. In Twitter, you can find me as Luis, L-U-I-S, Kuriaky, K-U-R-I-K-Y. I'll show you my handle so you can post it here because it might be difficult to remember, Luis Kuriaky. In Instagram, I'm the same, Luis Kuriaky.

I go by that name on most of my social. I thought at the beginning, I thought it was safety wise, sir. I thought that if you look for Luis Chaparro on social media, it's going to be harder to find me unless you know my handle, which is Luis Curiaqui.

And yeah, I'm very active on both of them. Most of the time when I'm out, I record short clips of what I'm reporting, of what I'm doing, when I'm not compromising a location. And then I upload stories on my Instagram afterwards when I'm back into a safe place.

Home or else and I start like so you can know what I'm working During that and have some behind the scenes on going to fentanyl labs arm trafficking stuff and also on my Instagram all my pictures I They're not like pictures of me or selfies or you know food. I

It's pictures of my work, pictures of our people, cartels, drug kingpins, pictures that most of them might take them or I find them through a source like the wedding of El Chapo. So that kind of stuff you can find on my Instagram and on my Twitter you can find all of my stories. Every time I publish a new story it's on Twitter. Perfect. I'll be following you. I just want to let you know...

if you ever have anything new yeah you're always welcome here we'd love to get you back on and and uh see what you got going on and

If you ever need anybody down there, even if it's just a sound guy, I can hold a boom pole like nobody's business. So I'd love to get down there and take part in that. That'll be amazing, man. That'll be great. That'll be an honor. And I'm very happy to be here because I watch your show. I learn a lot on your show. And so I really wanted to be here and share my small part of the world that I know, which is the Mexican cartels.

Well, I really appreciate it. Thank you. And it's been a real pleasure to host you. So be safe down there and best of luck to you. Thank you. Hopefully we'll see you around. Thanks a lot. And hopefully your people will learn about this guy I'm going to interview soon. And it's going to be around there. They will. All right. Cheers. Thank you. Thank you.

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