Glennon: Her New Life Off Meds
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Ixllearning.com slash we can. Visit Ixllearning.com slash we can to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. Abigail, Mary, Abigail. Yeah. How are you? Oh, I didn't know we were going to do this. I feel good. I feel like...

I'm ready to close the chapter of my life, the tough times, the challenging times, though they were beautiful and important. And I've gone through a lot. I'm just going to like try a little bit easier, but I'm good. How are you? Well, I'm going to talk about how I am the whole episode long. So Sissy, how are you? Amanda, how are you?

My therapist told me that if I say your name, I will remember we're two separate people. So you might notice that I've been saying your name lately. It's very weird. That's interesting. Okay. And also Alex did. One day I was saying sister, sister, and she said Amanda. Wait, who did that? Alex. Oh, interesting. So she's also on the train. Whenever Alex throws in something like that, I know it's something I should pay attention to. Oh, interesting. She's wise. Yeah.

Let's see. I just feel very tenderish and raw and exposed. I just want to be in my bed. I don't know. It's a longer thing. But I just feel like occasionally I'll feel like if something isn't going right for the family, there's this turtle thing that happens sometimes.

Where I just want to like, it feels too soft to be exposed. And I just want to like pull us all in under the shell. And it is a ick I hate everyone feeling. But it's also a, it's kind of good because it's like a very protective of the inner family situation. So I don't know. I'm kind of like navigating all of that.

I get that feeling. I get that feeling so much. Yeah, it's weird. A couple weeks ago, we were in the kitchen and I said, okay, I think I know what we need to do. We need to just have Christmas right now.

Like, can we just pretend it's Christmas? Can we just like put up the tree? Just get, we just need those vibes. And I had been feeling it like in the middle of a day, I'd be like, oh, at least it's Christmas. And I'd be like, it's not. Shit. Wait, did you, you didn't put up your tree? No, because Abby said that will be stressful. So then I let my Christmas down.

Dream died. What about it being Christmas made you feel like it was going to help? Okay, here's what I think. I think I was having the same feeling as you. When I feel like everything's happening and it's too much and like scary things are happening and this person is doing it in our family and I feel like icky about things, I feel energetically like turtling.

Yes. Like to me, winter and Christmas is like we are all going in. We are gathering the people close. We are shutting the things out. Everyone's stuck with me. It's like I want a turtle with everybody. Yeah. So how do you deal with it when you still have to when you have that feeling of wanting to gather everybody together because you're feeling vulnerable to the outside world? Would that be what it is?

Yeah, I guess so. I don't know how I'm feeling. I just feel like part of me sometimes just wishes that we could like run away to a different place and have no one else there. You can do that. I did it every two to three years. Yeah. Good for you for resisting the actual fleeing and the sitting in the horrific discomfort of being in the same community again.

I don't know. That's why I didn't want to put up the Christmas tree. It wasn't because it was going to be too stressful. It's because we need to learn how to sit in the discomfort. That's such bullshit. You didn't want the discomfort of going to the basement and getting the tree. Yes, that too. And I think that...

You know, Tish was just about to leave. Like there was, there's a lot going on that like. You felt like it was like a distraction. Yeah. Like a. Yeah. And it's all good stuff. It just doesn't feel that great when you're in it. Yeah.

Because it's like another kind of geographic solution. It's like, we're not here. We're at Christmas. Exactly. Let's just fake everybody out and pretend. Now, since I'm getting better about not moving in space, I need us to move in time. I need to control time. I need a time machine to make me more comfortable. Oh, sissy. Also, your bullshit comment was pretty aggressive, right?

Well, I felt like you were making it seem like a spiritual guru move when really I felt like it was a... I know that that's how you feel. Okay. But it still was aggressive. You can just do one thing and we can move on from here. Okay. You want me to apologize? Is that what you're asking for? It's totally up to you. I want you to know that I'm deeply sorry. Okay. We're working on feeling sorry when we say sorry. That's what I'm working on lately. All right.

Here's what we're going to talk about today. Okay, so I've been wanting to talk about this, but I've been also equally not wanting to talk about this, which is what we're going to talk about is the fact that after, let's see, about 35 years on antidepressants, some of those times were on and off. I went completely off my medication. I want to talk about it because I've been talking about

My love for, gratitude for being on medication for a very long time. And I've been doing that without shame, which everyone should do without shame. I think because I...

have been a champion for medication and for people on medication, I felt nervous about talking about not being on it. Like I feel like I felt with the reverse nervousness that most people feel about it. Like they're afraid of talking about it, but I'm afraid of, of talking about not being on it because I feel so strongly about people who want to and need to be on medication and

feeling glorious about that and not ever accepting shame. And so what you're not going to hear from me is like, rah, rah, right and wrong. It's wrong to be on medication. Like that's not my journey in any way. I'm so incredibly grateful for the medication my entire life and being off of it now, I'm thinking of more as like an interesting thing

adventure, experiment, I guess, more than, you know, I once was lost and now I'm found. But I felt like that's weird self, like you can't hide that you're not on medication now. Like that's, we're just gonna always tell the truth about where we are.

So... I see that, though, because it's a little bit like, well, I need... It could be perceived as like, well, I needed it when I was less healthy. But now that I've gotten more healthy, I don't need it. And so if you do need it, you're less healthy than me. It could be the takeaway from this. And that is not what you're saying at all. No, I don't think so. Yeah. I think what... But I don't know exactly. So...

What I want to reserve the right to do is just discuss, and for everyone to do, is just to discuss where they are in any given moment and not attach a ton of right-wrong judgment or victory stories to it. But I'm not saying that that's not even true, what you just said. I don't know. I'm just going to describe what's going on. Yes. Perfect. Okay, so...

You know, PodSquad, you may have heard, because I can't shut up about it ever, is that I've been on this recent recovery journey over the last two years. Yeah, so you know that. And it's been really hard and incredible work.

A couple of years ago, I was diagnosed with anorexia that sort of woke me up to ways that I was living that I thought were just like being a successful, strong woman. But actually were sort of this like was this like kind of cult of control thing.

with one person in it who was the cult leader and the cult follower, and it was me. And the cult was anorexia and control of everything in my life. And so anorexia turned out to be this sort of high control protection religion, way of living that I thought would keep me safe. And so for the past two years, it's kind of been like a

sort of of all of that, which like losing any religion, which has happened to me before, is highly uncomfortable and wildly freeing. So a year and a half into this sort of recovery, I felt like I had a pretty good understanding of how I was going to try to eat and be and

Meaning that I would not deny my own hunger. I think that is the most important thing. Like, it still happens to me several times a day where I like, I'm hungry. And then my first thought is, awesome, don't eat. And so then that's the wrong voice to listen to. So then I just kind of skip over that one and go to the next place, which is like, oh, you're hungry, feed yourself. This is the simple after the complicated. Okay. So...

I felt like I was learning and growing.

And my life was very different over time. And then for those of you who were listening to the episodes about Abby losing her brother. So my experience with that first phone call when we got, we were on our family vacation our first day after the holidays. And we got a phone call from Abby's sister. And we were at a restaurant and Abby kind of

walked away with the phone and sort of buckled. It was just all very horrific and dramatic. And I went over, she kind of went over to a different table away from people and was just on the phone. I could just tell that something horrific had happened. So I left the kids at the table and walked over and

She told me I sat with her for a while. I turned and looked at the kids and they were terrified looking at me like, what the hell is happening? So I walked back over and got them and brought them to the table, told them what had happened. And we all sat with Abby as she got the information on the phone. Abby was bawling. All the kids were crying. And I was looking at all of them and I was not feeling whatever they were feeling.

I was cognitively aware that this was a horrible moment and that my wife was in a lot of pain and that my kids were in a lot of pain. And so what I was doing was in my head trying to figure out like, how are we going to get through this? How are we going to talk to the kids about this? I was just like doing logistics, but I had a very clear moment of, wait a minute, I'm not experiencing this like they are. It was like they were all in a moment.

And I was observing them in a moment. Then the next few weeks happened. And so we traveled to Abby's hometown. We were in it with everybody. And every time we'd be in a room, I would feel like they were all having an experience and I was observing their experience. And I could cognitively

Like I was hugging people, sitting with people, holding them while they cried, but I was not in it with them. And that is what I kept thinking. I am not like feeling this. I am knowing this. I am serving. I am showing up, but I am not feeling this. Okay. Like there was like a plane of existing and you were existing on one of the planes, but not the plane that they were. Yes. Like the feeling plane. You were like, I am present now.

I am aware this is sad, very sad, but you weren't like feeling in your body. I feel sad. It's the season to shop new styles, electronics, and definitely a holiday trip. And what if each time you made a purchase, you got a little something back?

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There was a mess of grief and people acting strangely and people, all social norms not happening and people collapsing. And I was watching it all, but I was not in the mess. I was the way that I felt about it, which I don't know if we'll translate to words was like, oh, they're all in a room together.

And I am here in body, but myself is like in the back of a hallway tucked in behind me, like inside of me. But it's like there's a tunnel and the tunnel is between me and these people. I'm back here, like far back inside myself. And they're out there. And I could act it out. I really could be there for everybody. But I was not in whatever vortex they were all in. Yeah.

And so that was so interesting for me. There was a moment at the funeral when I finally, like, I was in a church. So then, like, when the stained glass and the frickin'

Catholicism is like my grief aesthetic. Yeah, I mean, on eagle's wings came on and I was like, oh, thank God. Then I just like lost it finally. It is my portal to having a feeling. Yes, God houses, God houses for whatever reason. Right. So I had asked my doctor long before Christmas, before the holidays, I had told him I was thinking about experimenting with not being on meds.

And he had said, how about not till after the holidays? Yeah. Which I thought, wow, that's a great. And I said, tell me more about that. And he said, it's just for everyone. It's the most intense time, whether you're the happiest or the saddest or you're, it's just a tough time to experiment with this stuff. So let's wait. I said, yay, good call. So I think maybe a month after we got back from the funeral, I

I said, okay, I want to do this. But that was before the experience with watching Abby. So what was making you think about it before then? I don't remember. I just think it was on my mind. I think, well, okay. I always thought that there was something different and wrong with me. As we know, this was like my biggest belief. Right.

And so I think when I started to learn that I could eat food and be like a normal human being, like I could eat food, digest it. Well, OK, so this is how I think it goes, right? You eat food and then you feel full and then you don't die and then you digest the food and then you die.

are fine. And then you get hungry again. And like this, I understand that this sounds, but I did not think that that is how it was for me. I thought I had a bottomless pit of hunger inside of me. And that if I tapped into it, if I allowed any of it, it would be so huge and ravenous and animal-like that I would, I would be the one like those fish who eat until they die and then they explode. And I don't think this was all completely conscious. Like I didn't,

say those words in my head, but that is what I, I believe I had to protect myself from my own hunger because for whatever reason, I was a person who didn't function like other people. So it's a reason if you're insatiable and your appetite and like, you're like, oh, I understand how other people work. That's not how I work. You might also feel that way about your ability to experience emotion and all of it that like you're just...

You're just not like your average bear and you need all of these additional supports. Yes, because my recovery over the last two years has been a slow removal process.

of the things that I built up to protect myself from life and love and existing. So anorexia was, or whatever form my eating disorder has been in for the last 25 years, wait, 30 years, was something that I built up, a little world that I lived inside of

Because to protect myself from life, I guess, because I thought, I mean, I think that what I've learned is that whatever that we are afraid that we have such a we feel like we have such a deep need for something that if we allow any of it, we will drown in it is probably something that we were deprived of at some point.

Where there is deprivation in your past, you will have such what you think is an insatiable desire for it that you might think you need to protect yourself from it. So hunger for me, familial things, cultural things, individual things, that was something that I was taught, trained, drilled into my head. Do not indulge that.

That is scary. That is something that you need to control and protect yourself from. I think I remember why you started thinking about this. And it was after a few sessions I think you had with your therapist. And then you came in, you asked me and you said, do you think that I'm vulnerable? Do you think I'm a vulnerable person? Oh, yeah. And my answer was, no, not really. It feels like you keep yourself vulnerable.

protected in a way. And I think after that, you started to wonder if that also could be because maybe these meds that you were taking. Yeah, it was just a lot of things, right? It was a lot of things. But I think that that was like a kind of one of the conversations we had that made you really start thinking about it. Yeah. And I think it was the trying out of human things that other people can do and thinking, oh, I can do that too. Like, wait, so I'm not broken about that. So maybe, you

If I can go ahead and let myself feel hungry, eat, be part of that world and not die and not, I don't know, then maybe I can also feel. Like maybe I can let myself feel the things that everyone else is feeling and not die. And maybe, and I'm not like, it was because I wanted the most joy.

interesting life because I want love. Like I want to experience love. I don't want to miss anything. When you're on that plane and seeing other people operate on another plane of humanity where they're able to like feel something so much that they're crying and with each other in that moment and you can't go there with them. You're like they are having a human experience and

That I don't have access to. Yes. Yeah. For some reason. Why don't I have access to that? Am I not letting myself? Am I not able to? Is there some wall I've built up that doesn't let me cross over to their plane? Like, what is it? And I felt like I was missing that individual thing that each of them were having, even though it looked very painful, you know.

But I was also missing, and I think what bothered me even more than the individual thing, is that I was missing a bonding thing. That's right. I was missing, my family was going through something that was...

making them something that they weren't before together. Like grief, collective grief is a glue. It's like a thing that you, there's not many ways that you can like evolve at the same time with people, but that seems to do it. I do want to just say that your steadiness during that time was so welcome to me who felt so unsteady.

And I didn't put it together at the time that that was even happening for you in your mind because of or in some ways because of the meds. I just thought that was just the role you were choosing to play because you were like, OK, I've got to like hold this ship down because Abby's down for the count. You know, so I know that they're.

there's a feeling like a disconnection or that we were not connecting, but I felt so connected to you during that time because of your stable and your steadiness. I just want you to know that, that I felt it was important to me that I knew that I could fall apart and that I didn't have to take care of you. I don't know what is this to say. It's just that I remember feeling like, like when you finally cried in the church, I was so grateful that you did cry and

And it was a contained moment. And then you were done with the crying. And so it was like, I did feel like I was able to really fall apart in this beautiful way. So it's not all for nothing. There was some good to take away from it. But did you, and I might have made this up in my head, but did you ever feel like I was not in things with you? Like, I always feel as if

Other people think that I don't care as much. Like that I had a coldness, a removedness, something that like when our kids started crying so hard for you, I was like, they are so caring. Like they are so loving. I never once thought that you didn't care. I knew that you cared. I also know you and I...

always give you the benefit of the doubt, especially because I know you've been on these meds and I know how they can operate for you. I know that there are always parts to you that you might not choose to bring to the surface, but I can see that they're there. Like, so what might look like coldness, um,

To me, I can tell that it's a safety mechanism that you've put in place. You know, there's times when we get into arguments and you can go into that place and that feels very disconnecting to me. But for the most part, I'm able to kind of see through it and give you the benefit of the doubt. Like, oh, yeah, that's just what she feels like she needs to do to survive. It's like a survival technique. Mm-hmm.

Or so you thought. No, it was. I'm so grateful for it. The interesting thing was that after a year and a half of intense recovery work that I was curious about it. Yeah. Because I have noticed that tunnel throughout my entire life and been utterly so grateful for it. Like I purposely wanted to be at the back of that tunnel. Like I...

I don't think it was a mistake. I think I needed all of that until I didn't. But what was different was, huh, I wonder if I want this anymore. I wonder if I'd like to try it a different way and just see what happens. So I talked to my doctor, talked to my therapist. They both agreed, great idea. Why not try it? So I started tapering, which means you just take like, you know,

Three quarters and then one half. It means something different for this is only something that you should do with your doctor. I have quit meds wrong many times in my life. I have gone cold turkey off of many things. It is not a good idea. For you? No, it should always be done with a doctor. No, for sure with a doctor, but just for you specifically because a doctor might...

prescribe somebody to go cold turkey. Right, right. But it should be done with professional help. So the tapering, I was so excited because I didn't feel much difference. Like I felt like, oh my God, what if this is just going to be okay? Because I think I went down to like half

of what I was taking for a million years and I felt relatively normal. I didn't get a lot of the things that you get when you change a dose of this stuff, which is I get like these crazy brain zaps or I feel like I'm on a roller coaster constantly. It's like,

this little zzzz that happens in my brain which I think is a thing about synapses or something I don't know wow even with this this time that happened to you the zaps totally yeah not in the tapering time in the in the time where she stopped full on yeah so I okay so the the tapering time went great and then at some point I was like I'm ready to just be off so I stopped completely

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We know talent. Visit roberthalf.com today. What I want to say is I have quit so many things. I mean, I have quit drinking cold turkey. I have quit... Well, actually, on the same day when I was 25, I quit drinking, puking, cigarettes, drugs, like everything in one day. And I was freshly pregnant, okay?

I once went off Klonopin that I'd been on for a year, cold turkey, like by myself. I just, I thought I was on like this light little thing. And I was with a friend and she was like, we were talking about trouble sleeping. And I said, oh, I just, I take this little thing my doctor gave me. It's like a, I think it's like a vitamin or something. And it helps me so much to sleep. And she said, what is it? And I said, it's Klonopin. She was like, okay, well, that's not a little vitamin.

It's like a fucking horse tranquilizer. No wonder you're sleeping so well, lady. So anyway, I went, I didn't talk to my doctor. I just went off it and it was, and I like had the shakes for days. My point is I am no newbie to withdraw. Okay. I have never experienced the hell that I was in day in and day out for what turned out to only be two weeks. I was actually very lucky. It was as if

Someone had sucked every, even the concept of joy out of the earth. I was unbelievably irritable. I hated everyone. Every sound I couldn't take. I could barely look. I couldn't even open my eyes wide. I just was so, it was horrific.

Did they tell you that was going to happen or were you surprised by that? They told me it might happen and I didn't believe that it would be as bad as... I didn't believe them because I'd been through so many withdrawals and I thought I knew what it would be. The amount of Googling I did those two weeks about...

SSRI withdrawals. Just like, what to expect? And I'm like, oh, yeah, check, check. Okay, okay, so we're good. We're still doing good here. Yeah, I mean, I hated everyone. Like, I really felt like, well, no wonder I've been on drugs, if this is what people are like, and the world is like, and I actually don't want to live in this world with these people. I want to be sedated.

Or if they're all okay, but this is how I am. Same, same conclusion. You know, I would go to therapy and I would just stare at my therapist. Like I couldn't even drum up the energy to describe the misery. And one day I just, I think I emailed her or texted her. I said, this is over. Like I can't do this. I cannot live this way anymore.

Um, she in a great act of mercy, actually described some things from her personal past with a similar thing and how she experienced it, which helped me very much. And she also kept saying, I don't care. Nobody's getting a gold star here. Like nobody's saying push through like, who cares? Like you go back on that medication. But the only thing I need you to know is that this is not who you are.

Like what I thought was, this is who I am now. What this time is, is who I am without meds. And what all my people are, are who they are. And she just said, what I do know, I don't know whether you should be, whether you should just go back on your meds or you should push through. I don't know what you should do. You have to decide that. But what I do know is that this is a period in time that's going to pass forever.

You're not forever going to be this miserable, this joyless, this without joy, whatever. So I think I said, all right, I'll give it two more days. And I truly feel like that's all I can handle. And that second day for me, it was like a complete it wasn't a gradual. I feel I'm feeling a little bit more normal. It was like I woke up one day and like had a normalcy.

I could find joy. I felt a little bit less irritated. Like it just turned off. And I don't know if that's how everyone's experience is. And there's no like moral to this story other than I feel like people should talk about how crazy that can be. Like that kind of withdraw that for me was 10 times more intense than alcohol withdrawal, cocaine withdrawal, cigarette withdrawal, Klonopin withdrawal. Like that.

eating disorder, withdrawal. It was just a really serious, immediate depths of despair, depression for two weeks. How long did it take you? So you're like, okay, I've been doing this for so long. I want to see if I can experience something different without this. Then you have the two weeks of hell where you're like, is this me without drugs? And it's like, no, this is me in withdrawal of drugs. And

And then the withdrawal is over. And then this is you off drugs, like not taking drugs. What is the you off drugs compared to you on drugs if you take away the middle piece? Yes, such a good question. And that is what I am figuring out right now. I want to hear your answer to that, Abby, but just your observations. Yeah.

The time. So if I think about it in like eras, like my medication era and then my withdraw era and then the era of like, okay, this is a new situation I'm living in me unmedicated, but not in withdraw. Right. And newly unmedicated, which means these, that's a different thing than like a year unmedicated. Right. Cause it's like, everything's new. You have like little baby fawn legs maybe in some ways. So yeah.

Nothing will ever be super consistent with right now, but I'm just interested in how your body is. So what I noticed about era three, which I'm just, you know, five months in. So in the grand scheme of things, that's a very short time and more will be revealed. But what happened was that I found myself in confrontation.

After confrontation, after confrontation, after confrontation. Okay. For real, I found myself looking at certain relationships in my life or relationships to everything, like relationships to my work, relationships to my children, relationships. And it didn't feel like, and suddenly it didn't feel like that. It just felt like slowly being like, wait, this doesn't feel right. That doesn't feel right. Right.

And I was saying it didn't feel right. And so that was creating friction, problems, conflict in many, many different areas where there wasn't conflict before. I don't think it was true to me before, but I think my eating disorder and my medication combined

protected me from knowing that like I think it took the quote edge off of things which allowed things to be tolerable to me that I actually don't in my truest self want or feel are tolerable but so so like making that less heady it's like you know you'd have a I'd have a conversation with somebody and maybe something in it was kind of icky but I was way back in the tunnel and

Like I can make it through that. And it would just be like, but without being back in the tunnel, I was like in it and I kept being uncomfortable. Like, it's like everything took the edge off, but I think what I'm, what I figured out over time, well, I don't even know cause I'm still in it, but I think the edge I need, I need the edge. Like, I don't want to take the edge off because the edge is the growth edge. It's like,

If I feel like something is off or I'm uncomfortable, but I mute it, nothing changes. Like I'm not in the struggle of change or making things different or making things better or making myself vulnerable. I don't have all of the fruits of that yet. What I'm saying is that what it felt like is why do I keep getting in so many fights? Why do I keep being so upset about things? Like why do I keep upset meaning upset

churning, like upset like a pond, like when it seems clear, but then the bottom gets dredged up and suddenly it's mucky, like that kind of upset. One of the things that I've noticed is to me, you went from protection to expression. And why I think this has been so

transformative for you is because those feelings and parts of yourself were all there. But I think maybe I could be wrong. The meds were suppressing some of those parts from really blossoming up and out of you.

And so a lot of the times when you would feel certain feelings, it would be heightened. And so you had to go into protection mode. So whatever would come out would come out in a way that was obvious to

A, what the problem was and B, what was going to happen moving forward. There was very little wiggle room because this was now such a big problem or emotion that it needed to be dealt with right on the spot. Fast forward, no meds, and all of these parts of yourself are coming to the surface. And I think what's been really interesting is trying to figure out the volume of which

Those are because you've been so accustomed for your life on meds that when something actually surfaces, it's a 10. It's a problem. And so it's been really interesting to see and to kind of, you know, work with you through this process of being off meds because things are coming up and your instinct is to go off.

Fix it. Solve the problem or whatever. And so getting comfortable with some of these things coming up and learning to figure out what what what size problem they are. That's been I think you've been incredible at it, by the way.

And also there's times when, you know, I'm over here going, oh gosh, she thinks this is a 10. It feels like it's a 10 to you because you're still trying to understand when something comes up, what level it is, like at what height do I need to get to, to sort through and wade through this feeling.

But you've been doing such a beautiful job at expressing yourself. And it's been so interesting to me. Like we watch movies now, y'all. And she cries when it's a time to cry. I can't stop crying. That's not true. I shouldn't say that. I can stop crying. I stop crying all the time. But I do cry a lot now. And I still have a double consciousness when I start crying where I'm like crying. And then I'm like crying.

look at you, you little love bug. You are so human and precious. You are crying. Like it feels like a miracle to me. But I think that that trying to figure out the alert level of things and, you know, it's, it's like I had other things to make me comfortable and safe and for a long time, which was like anorexia, medication, all the things. And so it feels like

Oh, now I make myself comfortable. I make myself safe. I make myself. And so it's a transition of like overzealousness at first. I'm like, oh my God, I'm the only one around here now who like I'm my only defense mechanism. It's just a little bit maybe overdone at first. I wonder if it's because like the edge off is like,

way of thinking about it and there's also a different way of thinking about it which is sort of like how you've said oh you always thought there's something wrong with you so you had to have these other things and I wonder like if you think there's something deeply wrong with you or you think you're too sensitive or you think you don't have an accurate read on the situation because you've been gaslight your whole life and saying that your read is not accurate and

Then, of course, when you get in those situations where you feel conflict or you feel uneasy, and I think this is true of a lot of people, whether they're on meds or whether they've been addicted or whatever, you don't trust your distrust of the situation. You don't trust, oh, I feel uncomfortable here.

therefore there must be something wrong here. You think I feel uncomfortable here. And the reason I feel uncomfortable is there's something so weird about me. So the last thing I'm going to do is bring that discomfort up to the ecosystem since I know it's my fault anyway. So I wonder if in some, when you talk about confrontation, confrontation, confrontation,

I wonder if it's in part that you felt that conflict more or in part that you felt like I've finally gotten to the place where I believe that

that my discomfort is relevant and I believe that I can express that discomfort in a way that doesn't mean scorching the earth, but does mean that we can navigate through this discomfort and make the situation better. Which if you believe that about yourself and you're not trying to like squelch it,

then that could exist in a lot of different contexts too. I've just like, no, I trust that this is something that is our problem together. And that takes us to the next part I need to discuss because I, what ended up happening is that I did not know how to do life or, or survive or, or,

handle relationships or without scorching the earth okay and so I had a major a big rock bottom about a month ago which led me to a new thing and so I want to talk about that in the next episode so let's stop there and we'll come back and I'm going to talk about this next part okay I love you all um please if you want and you need your meds take your damn meds okay I love you bye

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We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz. I give you Tish Melton and Brandi Carlile. Through fire I came out the other side

I chased desire I made sure I got what's mine And I continue to I'm the one for me And because I'm Cause we're adventurers and heartbreak's on map A final destination They've stopped asking for directions

Some places they've had to be loved We need to be known We'll finally find through the joy That our lives bring We can do a heartache When we hit bottom It felt a brand new start I'm not the person

Sometimes things fall apart And I continue to ask people are free And it took some time But I'm finally fine Cause we're adventurers and hunters On a map, a final destination We stopped asking directions

To places they've never been And to be loved we need to be known We'll finally find through the joy and pain That our lives bring We do heartache Cause we're adventurers and heartbreaks are mad

might get lost but we've stopped asking directions to places they've never been and to be loved we need to be we'll finally find our way and through the joy spring can do a hard thing yeah a hard thing