Christine Wyrtzen 23:59

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The deepest thing might be what God leads me to do in the life of one other person, and it will be rooted in this dark thing. So my expectations for, there's an excitement there, how God is going to use it. And I don't have the answer yet as to what that might be. The voice of our guest, Christine Wurtzen, who talks about her life, including a painful chapter on this edition of First Person. Welcome, I'm Wayne Shepherd.

Amen.

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I've been in Christian radio for many years, and there was a time when you could not turn on the radio without hearing a song from Christine Wurtzen. Happily, she's still heard on radio and online through her daily devotional program, Daughters of Promise. I wanted to catch up with Christine, and so I asked her to join us for this interview and give us an update on her life story.

Well, you know, you never think you're going to be in ministry this long. I didn't plan for that, but God just keeps, your story keeps evolving, and you hit places where your faith is languishing, and as you work it through, God has just favored me with a way to just share with people transparently what I'm living and what I'm learning, and so yeah, I have a ministry called Daughters of Promise, and I

I am doing radio still, and I'm teaching in some conferences, no more live conferences the way things are. And I'm doing a lot of mentoring. I'm working in my local church, and I mentor about 12 women and love that. I don't think I've ever learned as much as mentoring, which I've heard other people say.

I say this often, but isn't it interesting to look back on the various experiences that we had along the way and see how they all add up to what God has for us today? Yes, and the footsteps that you thought would be insignificant were really pivotal. Yeah, indeed. So you are very actively involved in ministry. By the way, you say this long, I mean...

Come on, it's been a few years. We all acknowledge that. But you've got a lot more to give, I think, right? I feel like I'm just... You know, the older you get...

you have to admit that the less you know. And I just feel like I'm kind of hitting my stride and I love what God is doing. Even in the tragedies, as awful as they are, I'm sure we'll be talking about that. But I just love the tender work that God is doing and just feel so privileged that I still have a platform to share it. Wow. Hey, tell me about your early life. When did you come to faith?

I grew up in a Christian family, and part of our summertime ritual was going to Word of Life, the camping ministry in upstate New York. Imagine that. Imagine that. And I actually...

accepted Christ as my Savior when I was seven, and it was in a Jack Wurtzen meeting. He was preaching on John 3.3, and so it's so cool that that was my salvation experience, and then I ended up marrying into their family years later. So it's very cool. Yeah, I wanted to talk about that family tree for a moment. You mentioned Jack Wurtzen. Many people remember Jack Wurtzen's name, of course, as the founder of

Word of Life, Scranton Lake, New York. And we also know the name Don Wurtzen. It's been a few years since I've spoken with Don, but what's the family connection there? I married Don's younger brother. So I married the youngest Wurtzen. There were five of them. And then Dave Wurtzen is a pastor with a radio ministry as well. So most of them are in ministry except for my husband who's in business.

Okay. And Don, of course, is a musician extraordinaire and helped produce, and I don't know if he arranged, but he certainly helped out with a lot of your music through the years, didn't he? And he did arrange a lot, yes. It's been, you know, who can foresee that, only God, but he was very pivotal in the first couple of albums and did great.

hooked me up with the right people in Chicago. We did most of it there. And I still get to do some things with him. He just wrote seven or eight lullabies for a new lullaby album for all of his grandchildren and said, hey, will you sing four or five? So I arranged those and sang them. It was fun. Well, I know your ministry has transitioned, but I think there was a time on Christian radio when you couldn't turn the radio on and not hear Christine Wurtzson sing. How many albums have you done?

I probably have done maybe 14. Wow. Yeah. And there was a Dove Award along the way. I have to say, you know, there's a whole generation of kids out there that one particular album you did, and I'm holding it right now, Critter County. And I'm sure you've got lots of stories of how that was used and has been used and continues to be used through the years.

I did, and like you said, there's a whole generation of kids who can still sing the songs, which we went through the alphabet for kids, and for every letter of the alphabet, there was a scripture verse. And the adults now tell me who are buying them for their grandchildren that they still know all the songs. It's amazing what happens when you put anything to music. Yeah. Well, I'm so glad it's still available. Yeah.

Yeah, it is. I just have a copy I make available actually for free. If anybody's listening and wants it, they can go to the ministry page, but it's an MP3 download. They can do deja vu. Wow. I did not know that. All right. We'll put the information in our program notes at firstpersoninterview.com. Okay. When did you start singing?

I was just married, and I was arranging for a group at Word of Life. I was their pianist and arranger. And I was asked to arrange a bicentennial musical for 1976.

And I was going on the road to just oversee all the choral groups that I had arranged for. And I was asked, you know, there's a small acting part and you have to sing just one song. And we know you can sing because you're teaching these other groups to learn their parts. Would you consider doing it? And, you know, I...

I will say just by nature, I'm an introvert and I was extremely shy and the thought of singing and getting out from behind the piano was absolutely terrifying. But I did do it and that was the start of it. And somebody from Zondervan was in an audience for one of the concerts and said, you really should pray about making an album. And that was it. Yeah.

So it's been very stretching, Wayne. I think my first concert was for 700 juvenile delinquent boys. I mean, what a beginning. And I really had to just see God...

give me a desire and a comfort level of being in front of people. And I love doing it now. I don't know that there's any situation where I would be nervous, because I've just done it long enough where I've just seen God come through with the anointing at the moment. But I'm still an introvert, and I love entertaining people two at a time instead of 20 at a time. Mm-hmm.

People don't understand that introverts can be the way they are, but still have a public face as well. Yep, yep, for sure. And I think most comedians even, I've read that they're introverts, so...

I think that's where the creativity comes in, because introverts got to have a lot of solitude. Well, you've had such a strong voice, Christine, through the years. And, of course, music and radio stations has moved on to different styles now. But, you know, I hope you're not offended by this, but back in the day, I mean, so many people would say, well, that's Karen Carpenter singing, right? I don't mind at all. Yeah, I grew up on her, and it was just in me that when it came time to do music,

Yeah, yeah.

Well, and I want to talk more about life for you today, but just to take another moment to look back. When you look back on the heyday of all that music for you, what do you see what was accomplished? What do you think God was doing? For me, it was showing me how personal ministry should be, the role of music when someone is hurting, because they're able to

they're able to hear truth in a way that they can't when it's in a book or a sermon.

So a song goes with them into the darkest of times, and they can hear truth because it's wrapped in this different environment, this musical environment. And God is able to speak to their soul in a way that's very unique. And I think the turning point for me was producing an album called For Those Who Hurt. You probably remember that. Oh, yes. Yeah, sure. And on it was a song called Carry Me. Yeah, that's one of my favorites. Yes, I was going to bring that song up.

Yeah, and it was at a time when my mother was dying of cancer, and Moody actually asked me to write a book going through that experience. And I came face-to-face with fractures of my faith and just started then to be transparent, more transparent, and that has become a hallmark of what I feel God has called me to do and to show people where...

my deepest wound is and show them how God has been gracious to me there. And that gives people courage to trust God for themselves in their own dark places. Your ministry today of writing and podcasting and radio really is an extension of what you're doing musically. It is. It is. Yeah, and I'm doing mostly now, I'm mostly writing. I have a daily devotional that goes out and

I like to, as God has led me to confront some really hard things in my life and to teach me that there really are treasures in the darkness. And he's taught me that I think the greatest tools of ministry come from the healings of our deepest wounds.

So that very dark thing that we think, oh, that would never be valuable to anyone, and it's a thing of shame, and I need to hide it. When we allow God to touch that, that's where our eloquence is born, because we find all this passion of, you're not going to believe what God did, let me tell you. It's hard to sit on it.

So that has become, first it was through music, and now it's through writing and music of just, Lord, give me the courage to speak eloquently about what you did in these places that are in many places, in many places in other ministries and in people, what they consider unspeakable. So I love doing what I do, and I think now I have the ministry I've always dreamed of, Wayne. I really do. ♪

But there's a painful chapter to the life of Christine Wurtzen. She'll talk about it next here on First Person.

Hi, I'm Ed Cannon. And as you know, situations around the world are changing quickly. Stay current with FEBC's ministry and get a deeper understanding of people who need to find hope. Hear how you can feel the pulse of God's Spirit moving through the hearts of believers dedicated to reaching the lost. Be sure you join me for the podcast until all have heard. Discover how the gospel is making a difference around the world.

Search for Until All Have Heard on your favorite podcast platform or hear it online at febc.org. My guest is Christine Wurtzen, and we're talking to Christine about both things past and things present because God's given her a tremendous ministry. Daughters of Promise, and we'll put information about that, of course, on our website, firstpersoninterview.com.

Christine, you are a very real, very vulnerable person. You're not immune to pain, and you and your family have suffered perhaps the deepest pain any parent can suffer. Are you willing to talk about that for a moment? I am willing to talk about it. Let's see. It was Father's Day.

And with no warning at all after receiving a beautiful gift from our 38-year-old son who was just married and we thought in just the best part of his life. My husband received a beautiful gift of smoked beef jerky that he had done himself with a beautiful card. He came over to deliver it. What man wouldn't enjoy that, huh? Exactly. But then that night, for reasons we will never know, it'll be a mystery, he took his life. Oh, wow.

And you just can't be prepared for news like that. And so you can imagine just we have been in not only a place of grieving, but learning lessons that you can't learn any other way. Like what does God's severe mercy really mean? And that's been one thing that God has walked us through today.

And when it happened, Ron and I really endeavored to talk about it, because especially when there's a death or suicide of a child, it's

The first thing you do is, well, what did we do wrong? And there's such shame surrounding it that most people don't talk about it unless it's just with a friend or two. And I found this out. I went to teach six months later. I didn't know if I could, but it was the only engagement that I kept. I went to the Cove in Asheville, North Carolina, and I spoke and I shared about Ryan and

10 minutes before one of the sessions. And when the conference was over, I counted 230 people in line to come and tell me their suicide stories. And I thought they, and a lot of them admitted, I'm not going to say everyone, obviously, but a lot of them admitted, I've not told anybody this.

So I'm seeing God use it, and we just are so grateful. You know, it's just bittersweet. It's so bitter because of what it is. But when you see God fashion it and shape it and turn it into something that's so useful in the kingdom to reach people in a kind of pain they'll not talk about otherwise, we're grateful He is using it. Yeah.

Well, I so appreciate you stepping forward and speaking about it so bravely, because it would be hard, and I can't imagine how hard it must be. But what lessons have you learned about trusting God with that pain? Well, the severe mercy part, Ryan had some—he was always reserved with his heart.

And I feel like that God allowed us to see that if he had continued to live, now obviously God is sovereign over choices. He could have stopped Ryan's taking of his own life, but he chose not to.

And we were able to see, and I feel like God showed us this, that if his life had continued with the deep propensity he had to keep his heart reserved, this would not have been good for a marriage. And because they were newly married, there weren't children. And so this is part of the package of severe mercy. So that's one thing we've learned.

Another was from an article, and I don't remember who wrote. Oh, yes, it was someone who works in Desiring God wrote an article about Adam and Eve and what happened when Eve took a bite of the forbidden fruit. And the reason God said don't eat it was because when she took a bite of the fruit, she would enter into the world of what evil was, and God did not design us to be able to handle evil.

the world of evil. And it's so cobwebbed and so deep, it's like it has, it's bottomless, and we're not wired to be able to handle it.

And so when she did that, she put us all into the situation where we are looking evil in the face and it's overwhelming. And so this writer said, so if you have something like suicide in your storyline of your family, take the bite of the forbidden fruit that you are trying to internalize and understand and offer it back to the creator and say, I'm giving you this bite that I cannot, that I was not wired to handle and that I cannot possibly handle.

unravel. So I'm leaving the mystery with you. And after reading that, I think Ron and I would both say, we don't need to read any more books about it because it made so much sense for us to give God back the mystery. That's incredible. You were so well-versed in Scripture before this happened in your life. Did it drive you immediately to Scripture or did it take some time?

It took some time. I resonate with C.S. Lewis's quote where he said, my pain screams so loudly I can't hear God's whispers. And so it took some time for me to go back to the scriptures and read, but I will also tell you that the time to prepare for pain is before you're in it. So prepare while you're in the light. You can't do it when you're in the dark.

So everything that I had been feeding myself over years in the light did come back and bubbled up out of that well that God had been filling. And it was profound, even though I didn't feel like I could currently hear God and go exploring for myself. But what I had stored away there was life-giving. In particular, any passage or verse that really just struck a theme with you during that time of grief?

I would say treasures in the darkness concept. Yeah, for sure. And then there was a scripture from Jeremiah. I remember it in the message. God says, I will lead the blind in a way they do not know. Through uncharted territories, I will guide them. And that was certainly true of anything having to do with suicide. It's not a term any of us were even familiar with.

And much less a journey we'd ever think we'd be walking. So we clung to that, that, Lord, you know the roadmap through a wilderness that we couldn't possibly, you know, trek our way through without your guidance. As you said, suicide is such a private pain. What part did the body of Christ play in healing?

I had to come to a place of humility and repent before God for my judgment on the church. Because I had been teaching for years that the church is not very good at reaching out to people in pain. And I just judged them for being trite. And I did a lot of teaching on it. But I want to tell you, when this happened to us,

Our Sunday school class of 30 people, I mean, they all wrote notes. They were at the door within the next week with a meal and tears and hugging us. Some didn't even have words. There was not one person in our class who said something offensive. And I thought, you know, I had this wrong. So...

repent for that. And I just, I talk about them to this day. This is, this is the first, that was the first sign of redemption of me seeing how the body of Christ can really work. And people's arms really were an extension of Jesus' arms. What else changed in your own heart? I don't think I have seen the power of ministry yet. I thought I had.

But God has something reserved in this, and it might be just for one person. God's economy is so much different than ours. We think it's going to reach thousands of people. It might.

But the deepest thing might be what God leads me to do in the life of one other person, and it will be rooted in this dark thing. So my expectations for—there's an excitement there, honestly, about how God is going to use it. And I don't have the answer yet as to what that might be. Well, you understand radio, and you know that there's someone listening right now who this pain is very fresh in their life. I do. This pain of suicide or something tragic in their own life. Yes.

As we wrap up, Christine, just look that person in the eye, so to speak, and just talk to them. I would tell you that we have an enemy who loves to come, and when something tragic happens, interpret the story for us. And his version is always out to malign God's character. And it starts with, see there, God can't be trusted because... Or see there, God wasn't watching out for you when this thing happened...

And part of what has happened with our son's suicide is that I have found God to be faithful. He is a good father. And I can defend God's character right now for you when you're in a place where you might be questioning it.

So I don't know who the songwriter was, but it was like, I'm going to trust God in spite of my tears. When I can't feel his heart, I'm going to still take his hand. I think that's the right lyrics. But God's character, God is a good father. And you might need to leave the mystery with him as we did. And it's a safe place to leave it.

I'm very grateful that Christine was willing to share her family's grief following the death of her son. Not an easy thing to do. Christine Wurtzen has been our first-person guest. Her radio and online ministry these days is called Daughters of Promise, and you can listen by following the links we've placed at our website, firstpersoninterview.com. Her music is still available as well, and there's also a link for it at the same website.

My thanks to the Far East Broadcasting Company for their support of First Person. FEBC's programs are widely heard in many parts of the world with millions of listeners tuned in each day. There are exciting stories resulting from the ministry of FEBC and you can learn more at febc.org. I'm particularly excited about the podcast from FEBC called Until All Have Heard. Search for this at Apple Podcasts and many other podcast portals, including Spotify.

Now, with thanks to my friend and producer, Joe Carlson, I'm Wayne Shepherd. Thanks for listening to First Person.