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When I started this podcast almost two years ago now, I had so many goals and visions for what I wanted the show to be.
I wanted to honor the humans at the heart of each case, giving victims and their surviving family members a platform to share their story while bringing attention to long-standing, unsolved cases. I hoped that the show would reach an audience who understood that these cases, these stories, and the people deserve more than being reduced to a form of entertainment.
I wanted to inspire action and demand accountability from investigative agencies to keep pushing forward in pursuit of answers. Because I could not and would not allow for these names and stories to be lost with time. Now, I also had a secret, whispered goal that felt like a really far reach for a small-town Maine girl starting a podcast in her closet.
Having been a listener of true crime podcasts before I ever created one myself, my entire library was filled with hundreds of episodes from dozens of shows, from small independent productions all the way to the big ones. Like, for example, consistently ranked number one podcast, Crime Junkie, created and hosted by Ashley Flowers.
Ashley is also founder and CEO of AudioChuck, the podcast network behind even more giants in the true crime space, like The Deck, CounterClock, Strangeland, and more.
That secret, whispered goal of mine was to someday have a conversation with Ashley Flowers on Dark Down East. I never miss an episode of anything she puts out, for one thing. But more than that, Ashley is a leader in the podcast industry and the true crime space, continually seeking new ways to not just create edge-of-your-seat storytelling, but she's also dedicated to give back to the community of families and victims whose stories she tells each week.
So this is a full circle moment for me, having an opportunity to host Ashley Flowers on Dark Down East. In this conversation, she shares the origin story of Crime Junkie and what goes into creating ethical true crime content. But also, Ashley gets personal about her experiences with pregnancy and motherhood. And if you listen closely, you'll hear me share something I haven't talked about on the show before too.
Ashley also leads me through her very first novel, All Good People Here, out August 16th, 2022, and how her years of true crime podcasting helped her write a twisty, turny, feels-real story that I, for one, cannot wait to read. FYI for all you crime junkies out there, Ashley was at home when we recorded this, and I definitely had a chuck siding while we were talking. Can't decide who I was more excited to see.
So with that, I'm Kylie Lowe, and this is a conversation with Ashley Flowers on Dark Down East.
Ashley Flowers, it's so cool to be saying your name on my podcast. Oh, that's so sweet. Welcome to Dark Down East. Thank you for taking the time to chat with me today. I'm happy to. I love your show. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you. Well, there's so many places we could start from the success of Crime Junkie to founding AudioChuck and now becoming an author with your debut novel, All Good People Here. You have all these things going, but I
I actually would love to begin with how New England fits into your story because, as you know, this is a Maine and New England true crime podcast. So we have to tie it into this region from the top. You do have some New England memories, right? Yes. So I got engaged in Maine. So.
So on Peaks Island, I am obsessed. Both my husband and I are obsessed with Maine. There is another world which we live there. And sometime in this life, we are going to like have a home in either Portland or Peaks Island. I am obsessed. It is the most beautiful place on earth.
Okay. I love that. So if you went out to Peaks for your engagement, then you must have taken Casco Bay Lines, like the iconic ferry that did the whole thing? Mm-hmm. Did the whole thing. Oh my gosh. Okay. Like you're more than a tourist. Like it's part of your story. So you're established here on Dark Down East. He does everything. So like he's been there too. Amazing. Well, we would welcome you here in Maine if you ever need like recommendations for like where to get a house on Peaks and all that. I've got family up there as well.
I'll hit you up. Yeah. So, well, with that out of the way then, of course, I've been a longtime crime junkie.
a listener from the early days. I consume everything Audiocheck puts out just because it's that type of true crime content that I feel good about listening to and supporting. I'm curious, for those who don't know your story, and I realized in preparing for this, I don't know a ton about Ashley, the human, and where you were before you started Crime Junkie. So what is that origin story of Crime Junkie and Audiocheck? Ashley Inkumsah
Yeah, so I've always been interested in true crime. But kind of what you were alluding to is I was always consuming these true crime books, true crime documentaries, true crime podcasts.
everything. And there was something that at some point I'm like, okay, I'm taking all of this in. What am I doing? How am I helping? If I'm going to spend, you know, if I'm going to get, truly, it's our entertainment. If I'm going to get my entertainment from this, how am I going to give back? Because it felt too voyeuristic, too icky to just have it be a one-way relationship.
So really, long before the podcast, it started with my volunteer work. I've always been very into volunteering through high school. It was Special Olympics. It's been different programs.
But when I was in my mid to late 20s, mid 20s, I decided, you know what? Like I should be volunteering in this space. Like, again, I was looking for a way to give back. You know, in a perfect world, I would have solved the cold cases, but like they weren't going to let me do that. So I found my local Crime Stoppers. I was really like on a mission to find some kind of organization that was helping with cold cases. And I found my local Crime Stoppers.
and like honestly hunted down the executive director, begged him to like let me do something. I was their volunteer coordinator. I got more and more involved. And then they eventually put me on their board of directors. During this time, I was working full time in business development for a custom software company.
So this was completely unrelated to my work. But I was on their board of directors. I was their youngest board member. And one of the problems that they were having is they said, you know, no one your age knows what the program is. We really think it's going to die out. Can you do some like local brand awareness?
And so then I connected with a local radio station here in Indianapolis and we struck up this deal and I said, hey, I'll come on every Monday and I'll tell a true crime story. And in exchange...
You need to advertise for Crimestoppers, like in your morning spot to a young audience. And so it was basically, I didn't get paid for it. It was like basically another branch of my volunteer work. And the radio station went to number one. It was their most popular segment. Wow. And I realized...
This is the first time that I realized like, oh, maybe I could tell these stories in a different way. And the radio station, it wasn't, you know, it's very short format. It wasn't even telling the stories in a way that I want to. And so I wanted a little more control of how I did that. And so and I knew I could still advertise for Crimestoppers. And so I kind of made the transition from radio to the podcast.
I say I made the transition. I just started the podcast. I had no following. I wasn't like a big radio personality and I still was working my full-time job. And when I started, I gave myself a year. I started the company, like did all the paperwork, founded it because I knew it was never going to be the side thing. I had to, I had to make this my living because I knew I was going to pour my heart and soul into it and it was going to take up a ton of time. So I
Put it all together, launched our first episode December of 2017 and gave myself one year. And January of 2019, I was able to quit my full-time job. Wow. Wow.
So there are some interesting parallels between our stories because I also started in radio and made the jump to podcasting. And it just, you know, there was some imposter syndrome there, at least for me, you know, thinking I could, could I be the one? Should I be the one telling these types of stories? Did you encounter that at all? Well, yeah, because I mean, again, that's why I was kind of surprised when the radio thing worked, because, again, it wasn't even my job.
Like it was just this volunteer thing. So to me, the stakes were low. Like I'm just trying to do good work. If people hate it, I tried. Like I'll try something else. I'll figure it out. But then when it did, it was the first time it occurred to me like, oh, maybe I can do this. Maybe I can – I was also looking for this podcast that I couldn't find online.
And I kept waiting for someone else to make it. And it hit me then too, like, why are you waiting for someone else to make the thing? If you're looking for it, someone else probably is too. So it was a little bit of an imposter syndrome, but I...
I think I'm a little different than many people in that way and that like I don't care about imposter syndrome. I'm not afraid to fail and I'll fail publicly and I'll fail privately. I just, I would kick myself over and over if I didn't at least try. So I had no idea if it was going to work. I knew that I was coming in as an amateur, but I also knew I was coming in like I had been studying podcasts for years before I tried to start mine. So I
I don't know. I came in confident. I wanted to do good work. And I also came in with a purpose. And I think that's what has really driven our fan base is this isn't we're not just telling stories like we're all driven by the same thing. We all have this goal at the end of the episode and at the end of the year. And I think that's what's really resonated with the people who listen to our show.
Yeah, it's as a true crime consumer, as well as a creator, it's always fairly transparent when someone has started a show for a motive that is not helpful or helping or intentional, you know, in an ethical way. Yeah. Wow. That's, that's, that's an interesting origin story. And the fact that you gave yourself a deadline and you dove in and now Crime Junkie started as your local two show.
Indiana ladies talking about true crime now. It's this global thing. I know you have a ton of hometown pride, home state pride, as I do with me. And you've even set your book in Indiana. And I can't wait to talk to you about all good people here. But because we are on a true crime podcast, both creators, I would love to just
pick in a little more about what goes into creating not only Crime Junkie, but The Deck and Counter Clock and all of these shows that are staples in my podcast library. Because I know a lot has changed. A lot has changed in the true crime landscape and certainly out of necessity. You see surviving family members speaking out against their stories having been exploited and
to create entertainment. And so we're at this like shift in the industry. So what has changed? So I hope, I hope it is a, an actual shift and not just a trend because it has been a lot lately of people talking about true crime ethics, how to make responsible content. And it's, it's all I ever wanted. I hope that that's true. Um,
And I think, you know, I think the shift is coming because, you know, if you would have looked back even before we started Crime Junkie, like the true crime genre for a while, it was like a secret that we all kept. Like, yeah, we like true crime, but, you know, no one's talking about it. There aren't 100,000 true crime podcasts. And so I think as it became more popular and more in everyone's face and there's something about podcasts that feels accessible to, I think it's actually given family members a lot of power, right?
because where before it was hard to get on TV or radio, there's a lot of mystery about how those things are made and who's creating them.
pod, you could write into a podcast or it was easier for them to get on podcasts, to start their own podcasts. And so I think podcasting has given victims' families a voice. And I think the medium of podcasting has a lot to do with this shift in ethical true crime and these families and survivors coming forward and saying that we should be a part of these stories that you're telling. Like you can't exploit us. We need to be working together. We need some ownership over our story. And that's something that we've
I'll never say that I was perfect, but the one thing that I'm so grateful for is the very first episode I ever put out was on Nikki McCallum. Again, had no following. I was like, okay, this is a local story of a woman of color who I don't think enough people know about, so this is the first one that I want to tell.
And the day after it came out, her daughter contacted me because she heard the episode and wanted to get in touch. And it was this instant reminder for me from day one that I'm not talking about characters or a random story. I am talking about people who lived the worst time of their lives. And every word I say is probably going to be heard by the person who lived it. And if I were that person, would I be happy with the way that I'm portraying their loved one's case?
Yeah, certainly. I mean, you make so many great points there. You, I am with you in hoping that this conversation around creating ethical true crime content, isn't just lip service because it's like buzzy to talk about. And, you know, maybe it makes some creators feel better about what they're doing to say, yeah, yeah, this is something we need to be worried about. But to the whole point of giving a family more power, you know,
I know a lot of these families in working with them and through working with the Unsolved Homicide Unit, the Maine State Police, you know, they're not given a manual in how to navigate these scenarios in their life. But at the end of a podcast, there's an email address that they can contact, you know, if they want their story shared. And it's not like the news is out there opening a helpline for these people. Yeah.
Certainly, certainly a platform that's more accessible. I'm grateful you brought up that learning moment because that's something as a creator, it's like, gosh, how can I put something out without having reached the family first and still feel confident that what I'm creating is right?
going to do them justice or honor them and not offend or re-traumatize. And again, this is where I'll say like we – I haven't been perfect the whole time because in making a weekly show, I mean, that's been one of the – especially early on when it was just me making the content, I didn't have a team of people who could reach out, who could get in touch with the family ahead of time. I was trying to put out a weekly show, again, with a mission. Right.
But there have been times where I have fumbled and, you know, we're using stuff that's already been reported, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the stuff that has been reported is still accurate. And the last thing I want to do is continue to spread misinformation. And I mean, as recently as this last year, we had an episode where it was Praveen, the episode about Praveen in Carbondale, Illinois. And he was a young man who died after going to a party. He was found in the woods. The police are convinced that
oh, you know, he was just drunk and he died of hypothermia. And there is some suspicion around there's another man who he got in a fight with. But the reporting that was out there
kind of left out a ton of information about his family and the cultural and racial impact that they felt coming into Carbondale, Illinois from being from a different country. And so when we told the story, again, though it was accurate to the stuff that was reported, his mom reached out and was like, not accurate to the way that I felt
Like, like our story unfolded and she was so gracious enough and gave us, gave us her time and let us interview her and redo our episode and fix it. I think that that's something that people have to be willing to do. You know, I'm, I'm gonna mess up is kind of like how I don't want to mess up now that we have a team. We're really trying to be proactive about reaching out to people ahead of time and making sure we're not making those mistakes as much as we can.
But people are going to trip up. You're going to fumble. And I'm grateful that we're given the chance to correct it. But I think that the creators have to be willing to do that. Yeah, you put together a whole episode. And yeah, it takes a lot of time. But again, if you're perpetuating misinformation, you also have a responsibility to make that right when someone brings that to your attention. Sure. Yeah. Digging in your heels on something that a family member is telling you, this isn't right. This isn't true to my lived experience.
It doesn't serve any purpose. Yeah. And I mean, yeah. And even, even if, even if you're like, yeah, I agree, but like, Oh, sorry, it's already done. Everyone's already listened. Like, again, then that goes back to like, why, why are you here? Why are you doing this? Sure. Now I know from listening to Crime Junkie in recent episodes, you reference an investigative journalist that you have on staff and part of your team. What has adding her skillset to the creation of Crime Junkie, what has that allowed you to do?
Well, it's been great because my goal with her, I felt like I was in this catch-22 where crime junkie, again, I was never a reporter. I know that's not my skill set. If I go knocking on doors, there's a potential that I hurt an investigation rather than help it. And I never wanted to do that. So I was always looking for stuff that was publicly available, had already been reported on. And the problem with that is I also really wanted to tell underreported cases because
But you get in this weird loop where it's like, well, those are hard to tell because people haven't reported on it. But I want to tell it. And so as soon as I was in the position where I had the financial resources to bring someone on, to pay them a fair wage, give them what they need to, again, this is a job, I wanted to be a solution to that problem. So we brought on a journalist so that way we could start
telling really underrepresented stories by doing our own original reporting. And by bringing this person on, you know, we're still telling the stories the way we used to tell them. And now this person, instead of turning out one episode a week, you know, she's doing two episodes a month, but really has time to reach out to the families, talk to the families, pull reports.
And so I want to do this more and more. And we've grown, especially with the deck, we've grown our team of reporters to continue to allow us to do this. So that way, you know, as I grow, as I get more resources, I can continually become a solution to the problem rather than just blaming, you know, blaming everyone else. Well, they didn't report on it. Well, now I can. And so, again, I will.
Yeah, those stories, as a listener, they're all the more rich because you are pulling out details and you are getting original information that not any other podcast can just look up on newspapers.com, you know what I mean? And it's stories that are fresh to the audience and these stories that deserve to be told but for whatever reason just have not caught the public's attention. Sure.
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Toyota, let's go places. I'm curious, do you have like a set criteria or something you work from when you're thinking about, I mean, I can only imagine what your inbox looks like if mine is the way it is with people with every deserving case in the world, you know, that would deserve coverage.
Do you have a criteria that you work from and how do you pick your cases and determine if you can cover it completely and ethically? Well, we always prioritize family and law enforcement that reach out. So we've got a case suggestion form on our website.
And we get something like $60,000 a month that we have to go through. But there is a box. Like I am family. I am law enforcement. And so if the family reaches out, we always try and prioritize those. And we're doing, you know, pre-interviews with them to see, you know, if there's enough information. If there's not, like how else can we tell it? Can we pair it with another case? Because I hate just telling a family, nope, sorry. Like that's so sad. Right.
But that's the next criteria. So once we find a deserving case, it's is there enough information out there? If it's one where we don't have contact with the family, it's like, what's our goal here? Is there a cause behind this, a nonprofit, a mission, even a lesson that can be learned?
Because, you know, not every case do we get to work with the family. Not every case is there a nonprofit that we can support. But I also think that through these, you know, 200 and some cases that have been out there, we've done a lot of education about cyber safety, personal safety, domestic violence that I think is just as valuable. Now, I know that your heart and mission to support these unsolved cases has been
transformed and allowed you to create another avenue to support the families with Season of Justice. You know, I'm really curious about what you're learning with that nonprofit that you created and just the realities of DNA testing and backlogs and all of that. It's so interesting to me.
I don't know that I'm learning so much now. It's honestly everything that I learned in podcasting that was like, oh, I have to make this. The more families that I talk to, specifically the more law enforcement I talk to, the
I would find that it was funding that was an issue over and over again. They're like, we have this backlog of cases. This old case has DNA, but I just know I won't get the funding to do it. It is not top priority. We've got new cases coming every day. And I'm like, well, how can we fund it? But police taking money from a media company is very messy. And so over and over again, it was money, money, money. That was the problem time and time again. And so-
I was like, well, what if I just set up an organization that's completely separate from my media company? Like I don't run it. I'm on the board of directors, but it has its own executive director. It's completely run by the board. Yeah.
And I, you know, Audiochuck can fund it, but then they can do what they want with it. Law enforcement can apply. We can pay the labs directly. So it's not even like we're funding law enforcement. We are just funding the testing to solve these cold cases. When there is a DNA profile, you can't get a hidden CODIS, let's do genealogy, or we're trying to even see if there's new DNA using NVAC testing.
And so I would say the only thing I learned is that like my theory was right. Like the amount of grants that come in that we're able to contribute to have just been unreal. Like how fast it took off has been incredible.
And there's been some really impressive and admirable successes with Season of Justice already. It's been really cool. We're finding that, you know, it takes a long time from the time we approve a grant to the case being closed, whether it's solved or shelved or whatever.
It's like 18 months. So not a quick process, but we've been around for that long now. And so we have helped apprehend a serial rapist here in Indianapolis. We have helped catch a murderer in Alaska. He was apprehended, I think, in Idaho, but he confessed and he's going to prison. And then we recently just solved another murder in Texas where the man was arrested.
Is that just knowing your origin story? Like as you started as a consumer of true crime content and here you are having been the mechanism to create an organization that's doing the things, that's solving the crimes. I've lived by dream. I tell everyone, I was like, I now, if I got hit by a bus tomorrow, I feel like I contributed to the world in a meaningful way. Like
way. Like this is what brings me meaning. And I'm, I'm so proud of the entire team that I have who made this possible. I'm so proud of every person who listens and consumes the content who made this possible. And that's what I tell people all the time. Like we as creators can make the most ethical, best content in the world, but until consumers start demanding that, like that's, that's where the change really starts is the people who are listening and who are engaging with us.
You know, I just wonder like how many hours of sleep you get at night. Honestly, I get more now that I have, it sounds crazy, but I get more now that I have a baby prior to this. So when I was starting the company, I mean, I was burning the candle at both ends, even after I quit my full-time job. I mean, this is,
was all consuming. This was my life. I was building this company and it was kind of this deal that I made with my husband, like, listen, let me get it to a certain place. And then I promise you, I'll build in the support that will let me take a little bit of a step back. And that's
step back was when I had my daughter in January. And so now it's why I'm actually doing this recording from my house and not the office because I was like, okay, this is four to five. I want to be home at five so I can help with like all of her, her nighttime routine. So it's a, it's a juggling act. But now it's pretty good. I feel like it's stable. I'm about to go on a book tour. So sleep out the window then.
But I feel like 2022, I've got a really good handle on my life. And that is only because I have such a strong team here in Indianapolis to support me.
I am eight months pregnant. I can't say that pregnancy has been like my favorite human experience. Oh, I hated it. Oh, gosh. And like there's like guilt tied up in saying that out loud for some reason. I've been on a mission to like de-guilt the not enjoying pregnancy thing.
Oh my God. I, yeah, you, there should be no guilt. Pregnancy is terrible. You like, even if you have, I feel bad because I had a great pregnancy. There were no issues, but it's just not fun. Like nothing about it is fun. And people are like, oh, the baby kicks. And I'm like, yeah, to remind you that what you're doing is like a good thing because otherwise you forget. And it's also not a bad thing when you have the baby. Like I was miserable for the first
four weeks. And, you know, it's a little bit of postpartum. It also like, it takes time to bond with a baby. And I did this whole thing on our fan club and it was amazing the amount of people that reached out and were like, oh my God, you're the first person I've heard say it out loud. But like, I didn't know Joe. Like, yes, she lived in me, but the baby in me didn't feel like the baby outside. And it took me a long time to bond with her. And I thought, honestly, for a minute, I made the worst mistake of my life because my whole world was turned upside down.
I'm six months in. She's my favorite thing in the whole world. I love her. So just know that if it gets dark after the baby comes and you don't like her or him for a minute, I promise you that's normal too. Well, I really appreciate that perspective. And I'm also curious, did you have a shift or like a
I guess I can only speak from my experience, but like there is a time I think mid pregnancy, like months, three, four, five, where I just felt so tender and I covering cases with children was so hard. And then I also felt guilty because.
the tenderness and like the difficulty in covering those cases, I got to walk away from it as someone who didn't experience it firsthand. And yet these mothers who lost their children never get to walk away from it. And so I just had this like internal battle over like what I was creating and it's changed, I think, how I've approached telling some of these stories. Did you deal with any of that? Not while I was pregnant, not until after I had Joe. And I...
I didn't feel bad about telling the stories. They stayed with me longer. I spent more time thinking about the mothers, to your point, and what are they doing right now? How does this pain ever leave, ever lighten? I don't know how they went on for their other children because I don't know that's something I can do. I think about how strong they are. I spend more time, not even just cases with kids, all cases, thinking
I now do something I never did, which is I spend a lot of time thinking about what each victim must have been like as a kid. And like, this is so like intuitive and it might sound so dumb to some people, like, of course, Ashley, but I'm like, they were someone's baby. Someone breastfed them. Someone watched them take their first step. Someone...
sent them off, took pictures of their first day of school, like all these life milestones that sometimes get lost in the stories we tell because the stories we tell are about this time when they died and you lose all of that. So it's just given me such a great appreciation for the moments that don't necessarily make the podcast or the documentary because they're like mundane life moments that
don't seem like they matter, but they're so beautiful to the people who love that person. Yeah. There's a whole depth of a human there, not just the final moments of their life. Yeah. Yeah. It's been a, I mean, pregnancy has been a whole trip. The emotions have been a whole trip. It definitely makes me think about so many things differently.
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Your storytelling style, it's, I mean, it's top notch. It's clearly been refined from that first episode in 2017 and then evolved from the deck, all the other shows that you touch. I mean, you EP every show at Audiocheck. Is that correct? Yeah. So, I mean, you've got a very broad range as far as how you approach storytelling. Very unique style that I appreciate and love.
So now I want to know, how did your storytelling experience in telling true crime stories help you with your storytelling, writing fiction for all good people here? Yeah, well, I think it was, it's,
the fans' reaction to my storytelling. So, you know, over the years, I've really paid attention to what they respond to, which stories, what moments in the stories. And so that's, it's like those moments that I tried to incorporate into the book and even the pace of the book and the ending of the book.
I wanted to give people just jaw-dropping moments all the way through. So I tried to take what I've learned in five years and smash it all into one touching thing. Well, you know, in Crime Junkie, you have a great way of building suspense without it feeling exploitative. You know, it doesn't feel like you're working in jump scares or anything that's just like
icky. But with writing fiction, did you feel like you had permission to pull in more suspenseful things, like more things, a different approach to telling a story that you wouldn't necessarily give to something that's true crime?
Not necessarily because I wanted one of the things that I really wanted to do and I've been seeing these earlier views coming in that people are responding to, which is great, is that I wanted this to feel like it could have been real. I wanted it to feel like a real investigation. So the thing that I loved about it that was so exciting is the stakes were low. Like I got to do whatever I want and I got to play with things and characters and let it all come from my brain.
And there was nothing on the line. Like I couldn't I couldn't hurt families. I couldn't mess up a case. So and I truly like in my heart of hearts, I love a good mystery. I was into, you know, crime fiction before I ever got into true crime. So this really feels like I'm going back to my roots. And it was nice to still get to live in the world of a mystery.
where the stakes were extremely low. Sure, sure. Now I've read the first two chapters. I'm eagerly awaiting. Oh my gosh, I need to send you the book. I'll send you the whole thing. Yeah, okay. All right, well, I will let you know that I have pre-ordered it. I'm looking forward to pub day where it lands on my front steps, August 16th. Dark Down Easter's, if you're listening to this, the day this comes out, that's tomorrow. And even in those first few pages, the character development is super rich.
I can tell that there's a real depth of story behind each character. And obviously, I want more. I'm so excited to read the whole thing. So can you give us a synopsis of the book in only a way that Ashley Flowers can? So there is a journalist named Margot Davies who lives in Indianapolis, and she has to return to her hometown of Waukarusa. She's taking care of her uncle who has dementia.
And when she's there, a young girl goes missing. And it's eerily similar to the circumstances of another girl who went missing and was murdered 20 years ago and is actually Margo's
neighbor at the time, six-year-old January Jacobs. And Margo seems to be the only person who's like seeing similarities between the two. And January's case was never solved. So there is still a killer out there. And when this note appears on a barn, this very ominous note, the stakes get really high and Margo becomes obsessed. I mean, at all costs to solve January's case once and for all.
And it is so twisty and so turny. My favorite review that I got was someone said, I've never gotten to the last page of a book and still not like guessed who did it. Wow. High praise. So I'm excited for everyone to read it.
Yeah. Is it different reading the reviews, the early reader reviews for your book versus reading the reviews for the podcast you create? There's still some vulnerability there. Complete. It's different now, mostly because now I can't read the podcast reviews because again, the stakes are so high. If someone's like, oh, this story, I'm so tired of you covering unsolved cases. I get pissed. But again, for the people and
can't do it anymore. But in the early days, I read every review and it feels exactly the same. I'm like, because I poured everything into me. I worked so hard. I worked for two years on this book. And when someone doesn't like something or criticizes something, I'm like, no, you just don't understand, which is the same feeling I had when they gave my podcast bad reviews. I think that's why all of us hate bad reviews. It's not that we don't like it. You just don't understand what I was doing. You understand me. We want to be understood. Yeah.
Exactly. Yeah, I wish I could like have a rebuttal to my podcast reviews. It's like you can do it on the app store. Why can't we do it on podcasts? I just want to be able to know. Probably because I spend my whole day fighting with random people. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So what what does a true crime fan get from all good people here? Like, why is this the book that they should have on their bookshelf?
Because, again, I really think it's a fiction story that feels so true to true crime. I mean, I consulted detectives, journalists. I wanted every piece of this to feel like it could be real. And it does. It feels very freaking real. Even, again, the feeling you get when you leave it is –
is everything you feel when you listen to a Crime Junkie episode. Well, you've said before about Crime Junkie that it was the show you couldn't find that you wanted to listen to. Is this the book that you couldn't find that you wanted to read? It truly is. I have made like a thousand jokes. I literally think on our website, I like poke fun at Gillian Flynn because I'm like, girl, I don't know where you've been. I'm still waiting for another book.
And it has like I the way I was consuming all these true crime podcasts and there just wasn't enough for me. That's how I feel about these books. Like I I will read every mystery thriller. I listen to audio books. I'll pick them up at the store. I love, love, love them. And they're just like isn't enough good ones where like I cannot see the ending coming. And so I wanted to make the book that is for people just like me.
I love that. So I too have been perusing like the Goodreads, early reader reviews. I'm almost kind of nervous to ask you this question and feel free to brush it to the side. But I've seen a couple of comments saying that the case covered or the case you've created in All Good People Here draws some parallels to a very well-known case.
and a real case. So I didn't go into this being like, I'm going to create the fiction version of something else. What I tell people all the time though, is like, again, looking at my book from afar, I think there are a lot of like,
elements that have bled in. For example, there's a moment in the first two chapters from my website where Chrissy comes down and there's a note like spray painted on her wall. That is from a case where a man, he ended up murdering his family and he wrote on the wall in spray paint. So like, again, once I took a step back, I'm like, oh, there are these things that I've seen in other cases. And I also think that people
see what they're obsessed with too. And so, no, I didn't go into it thinking it was going to be something, but I would be silly to think that like, again, my background didn't influence this in some way. Sure. Sure. So what else do we need to know about all good people here? Before we wrap up here, I want to be so respectful of your time and you've given me so much of it, which has been so exciting. I love asking this question. What is the last thing that made you laugh?
My daughter, she came, she came and visited me at work today. She's in, she's about to teeth. So she's drooling like a monster and she's trying to blow raspberries. And there's just like nothing in my life that makes me happier than that little
Oh, we brought her in the podcast studio today and she made her first little – she can't talk at all, but made her first little podcast recording and I was so proud of her. I love that. It's like we need the Chuck sign-off at the end and then we'll get like a Joe sign-off. And now Joe's. Are you sharing? Do you know what you're having? Yeah, I'm having a little girl and her name will be Clara. Clara, stop. I'm so happy for you. Thank you. She's been trying to like bust a foot through my belly button this entire conversation. Yes.
girlfriend's ready to come out. Ashley, this has been such a treat for me to get to chat with you, talk shop, hear about your book. It's out August 16th. All good people here get it.
All over the place, I'm sure. All over the place, anywhere books are sold. If you want a sneak preview, you can read the first two chapters at ashleyflowers.com. Beautiful. Ashley, again, thank you so much for joining us on Dark Down East. It's so cool to know that you tune into the show and I tune into your show and it's just a very full circle moment for me. I love it. I love it. Thank you for listening to Dark Down East, Maine and New England's true crime podcast.
Dark Down East digs into the murders and missing persons cases, survival stories and mysteries of Vacationland and beyond. This is heart-centered true crime, honoring the legacy of the humans at the heart of each case with thoughtful storytelling rooted in investigative journalism. With a mix of host-led stories, interviews, and documentary-style production, I cover the decades-old and modern-day cases that prickle the history of New England.
You'll hear from the families and friends and investigators and the sources who know these cases best. Whether you are local or from away, follow or subscribe on your favorite podcast app and dig into Maine and New England's true crime stories. Find me on Instagram at darkdowneast and online at darkdowneast.com.
If you have a personal connection to a Maine or New England case that you would like me to cover on this podcast, send me an email at hello at darkdowneast.com. Thank you for supporting this show and allowing me to do what I do. I'm honored to use this platform for the families and friends who have lost their loved ones and for those who are still searching for answers in cold missing persons and homicide cases. I'm not about to let those names or their stories get lost with time.
I'm Kylie Lowe, and this is Dark Down East.
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