What's at Stake for Working People This Election? 01:02:07

Welcome, everyone, to The Run-Up, a podcast from The Real News Network that's going to help you stay informed, engaged, and empowered this election season. My name is Maximilian Alvarez. I'm the editor-in-chief here at The Real News, and we've got a great new installment of The Run-Up for y'all today, just ahead of Election Day.

For as long as most of us can remember, the election has dominated the news cycle. But as is so often the case with mainstream media, the voices and needs of working people are seldom given the time and attention that they deserve. So, in this installment of The Run-Up, I sat down with three workers from around the country. Vanessa Bain, an Instacart shopper in California,

Leo Carney, a chef in Mississippi, and Aaron Oberson, a registered nurse in Maine. And we talked about what matters to them this election season. Let's go.

My name is Maximilian Alvarez. I am the editor-in-chief here at The Real News, and I am so excited to welcome y'all to this panel discussion that we are hosting with three working people from around the country who are going to share their thoughts on

all things related to the election and to their experience as working people, as citizens, as people who are largely left out of the kind of political discussions that dominate in mainstream media today. And so I wanted to welcome you all. Thank you so much for joining us and ask you all to introduce yourselves to listeners.

Thank you, Max. It's an honor and a privilege to be here. My name is Vanessa Bain. I am a Instacart shopper and gig worker extraordinaire based in Silicon Valley, Bay Area, California. And I am also the co-founder and founding member of an organization called Gig Workers Collective.

Hi, my name is Leo Carney. I am, well, Chef Leo Carney. I'm a local chef here in Biloxi, Mississippi. I work at McElroy's Harbor House in Biloxi. I'm the kitchen manager as well, and I'm the co-founder and principal organizer of ADOS Mississippi, American Descendants of Slavery. Hi, everyone. Thanks for having me. My name is Erin Oberson. I'm a registered nurse and

I am a mother of four, a wife, I'm a union member, and I'm a community organizer here in Maine.

Well, thank you all once again for joining me. I can't express enough how grateful I am that y'all took the time out of your busy lives and schedules to make time to chat with us today. I really, really appreciate it. And I'm really excited to talk to y'all. You know, this episode is part of a new ongoing podcast that we've launched here at The Real News Network called The Run-Up.

where we try to provide election and election-adjacent discussions and news coverage, the kind that normally does not get covered in mainstream media. We are trying to provide the types of stories, cover the types of issues, and ask the kinds of questions that rarely get asked in mainstream coverage online.

of this or any election. It is normally very heavy-handed on the horse race politics, on the professional punditry. And often the needs and lives of working people are discussed as topics of

But rarely do we ever get to hear from, you know, working people themselves about what they think about the election, about politics in this country and about the things that really matter to them. And so that's really what we were hoping to kind of accomplish with this episode and with what we do with the real news in general. And so once again, I just wanted to thank you all for being a part of this and for lending us your time. We really, truly appreciate it.

And, you know, to to, I guess, get us started, right, you know, building on what I was just saying there, I wanted to kind of really just turn things over to you three and ask, you know, from from the political candidates at the presidential level to down ballot candidates. Right. You know, all the way up to the mainstream media itself, right.

Do you feel like the voices, needs and concerns of working people like yourselves are being addressed in this election or any election? And, you know, if not, why do you think that is? So, unfortunately, I'm going to start off on probably what is somewhat of a pessimistic note, which is just that.

America is a two-party system that's run by two corporate parties, neither of which have the best interests of the working class. And unfortunately, I don't foresee this two-party system as something that can be just reformed away. I think that what we need is to build working class power in a very broad way and

have a political party that actually represents the interest of working Americans. Unfortunately, you know, I think that there's sort of like this

perception that that party is the Democratic Party. But, you know, just in my experience, having stepped out of sort of that two party paradigm by the time I was about 14 years old in the 2000 election, when, you know, options were between Al Gore and George Bush and those both seemed pretty awful to me. Although comparatively at this point, I'm not really sure how bad I could say those were.

Yeah, it's just, you know, it's been pretty clear to me for the past about 20 years that neither one of these parties have our interests in mind. And the reason that that is, is largely because, you know, we live in a hyper-capitalist society where

money is power and corporations have a lot of it and workers just don't, right? And we've seen this sort of downward trajectory in the material conditions of the average worker over time. And it's only gotten worse over my lifetime.

to the point where we end up where we are today, right? Where people like myself don't even get acknowledgement as workers. And, you know, the labor that I do is really devalued and talked about as though it's not real authentic work, right? And so, you know,

The remedy that I see to this is to build strong working class power, which includes unionizing from the bottom up and organizing from the bottom up.

And that's really the only way that I see anything positive changing. So unfortunately, I don't endorse either of our presidential candidates. I, you know, if I'm being very straightforward, I endorse the guillotine for 2020. But short of that,

You know, there are a lot of really important things that are happening down ballot. And in California, we have some incredibly important ballot measures that are coming up in this election and some opportunities to really pave the way, you know, not just for the rest of the country, but for the rest of the world in terms of, you know, criminal justice reform, in terms of

of labor protections in terms of affirmative action. And so I, you know, while I'm pessimistic about the presidential election, because I think either way we lose, I'm actually quite optimistic about some of the more local propositions or candidates that we've seen emerge recently.

I would like to kind of expound on what Vanessa was saying about down ballot strategies. And that's something that we're doing in Mississippi. Myself and others, we have an organization. We're part of a national movement. It's called ADOS. It's American Descendants of Slavery. And this movement has galvanized, you know,

I mean, all of America, you know, it's a bipartisan group. We, um, we advocate for, you know, for a specific group. These are for, you know, your most impoverished, uh, your most disparaged Americans, uh, and your, you know,

your most hardest hit by COVID at this point in America. And I just wanted to expound on what you were saying as far as the down ballot strategies. We have two ballot measures here in Mississippi. It's ballot measure two. Ballot measure two in Mississippi is a ballot measure to overturn an old Jim Crow system, whereas if you're a candidate

Mississippi and you're running for office you have to win the majority of 122 house districts in order to win the election in Mississippi and if unit and if you don't fit that majority of 122 house districts and then the house has to decide

And this ballot measure says that now this will go to a runoff election and pretty much takes it away from the House and the Senate. We have a supermajority in Mississippi, a supermajority Republican House and a supermajority in the Senate. And so this ballot measure pretty much takes it away from the House and the Senate.

pretty much neutralizes that, you know, it's a monopoly. You know, it's been going on since Reconstruction. Also, ballot measure three is the removal of the Confederate flag emblem here in Mississippi. ADOS Mississippi, our organization, along with the Mississippi Rising Coalition and other organizations in Mississippi have advocated for

for the removal of the state flag emblem and we have victoriously won that decision as far as getting a ballot measure put on the ballot and we and you know it's going to come to a vote and I'm sure you know it'll pass and so the way the way I see it you know these are down ballot measures that

all our transformative policies that we can implement within government. And I know the two-part, I'm an independent voter, always have been an independent voter. And so as far as the black community,

is concerned. I just feel as though we have gotten shortchanged by the Democratic Party. We never got anything from the Republican Party. And so when I look at it,

As you can see right now in California, there was a bill passed by ADOS. Our advocacy group, along with Shirley Weber in California, Assemblywoman Shirley Weber, Governor Gavin Newsom, we were able to pass AB 3.0.

AB 3-1-2-1 is a reparations bill in California. And that was historic landmark legislation that you didn't hear anything about in mainstream media. No one talked about it. This is historic legislation and it sets a precedent for states like Mississippi. Because if you look at the numbers in Mississippi,

When we talk about working class individuals, there's a study by the John C. Stennis Institute of Government and Community Development. And it studies the income inequality in Mississippi. And it was done by Ms. Lydia Quarles. She's a Juris Doctorate and Senior Policy Analyst at the Stennis Institute of Government Policy here in Mississippi. And it says that the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities reflected that income inequality

between the top one-fifth of Mississippi households and the middle one-fifth of Mississippi households has increased more than any state from the late 1990s to the mid 2000s. Now the same is true for income inequality between the top one-fifth of Mississippi households and the lowest one-fifth of Mississippi households. Now during the same time period the top 20 percent

Based on income alone, this is just based on income when we talk about working class individuals. During the same period, the top 20% saw their incomes rise 19.1% in Mississippi, while the middle 20% saw their income fall 5.1%. But here's the kicker. During the same period, the bottom 20% of households in Mississippi saw their incomes fall by 17.3%.

And so when you look at the data, you guys, this translates

you know according to the u.s census bureau this translates to the top one-fifth of mississippi households having an average annual income of a hundred and thirty six thousand five hundred and fifty three dollars while the middle one-fifth of mississippi households have an average annual income of thirty seven thousand two hundred and thirty five dollars and the bottom twenty percent of mississippians have an average income of eight thousand and forty four dollars

So when you look at the wealth disparities in Mississippi and just as a whole, I mean, if you look at the color of wealth studies done by Dr. Sandy Darity, Antonio Moore, Mahershala Baradaran, Stephanie Kelton have done some work. And, you know, these are all economists who can see that literally the black community in America is in economic collapse.

And I don't think there are enough voices in the establishment, of course, and even in some of our progressive circles who are speaking to these disparities. Of course, when you look at climate change,

and even environmental racism. In Mississippi right now, in Yazoo, Mississippi, there's a project called the Yazoo Backwater Project, and this is done by the Army Corps of Engineers, and they're supposed to shore up the flooding that comes from the Mississippi River. And this flooding, it floods a lot of impoverished communities along that Mississippi River Basin, and no one has talked about this.

Same thing that is going on in Lowndes County, Alabama right now with the hookworm epidemic that's going on in Lowndes County, Alabama, where literal feces from people's trailers, they have no wells, no sewer systems. And so, you know, our advocacy, because of our advocacy, we got on Representative Terry Sewell.

the congresswoman Terri Sewell to try to get proper sewage systems. We just got in LaFleur County, Mississippi, we just were able to get

clean drinking water in LaFleur County, Mississippi. And so, and these are very impoverished areas in rural areas of these two states, Mississippi, respectively. And so what I would like to do, and where I met Frances Madison, she was covering a Mike Asprey rally

I came to a Mike Ansboury rally to ask him, would he support a federal reparations bill in the United States? We already have legislation in Congress. It's called H.R. 40. Sheila Jackson Lee is the sponsor of H.R. 40.

And we have right now currently 154 sponsors in Congress. I think we need 212 sponsors to get to the floor. But we have legislation. And so we have Senate Bill 1083 that was introduced by Cory Booker. Cory Booker, because of our advocacy, he introduced a companion bill to House Resolution 40, H.R. 40. And this bill is to study the

the plunder and to study the history of slavery and Jim Crow and how does that affect American descendants of slaves today? And there's an accrued disadvantage from

Charles Lavery and Jim Crow. And so when I approached Mike Espy at the rally, I asked him, would he support, if he were to be elected to the Senate here in Mississippi, in the United States Senate from Mississippi, the first black senator actually since hiring rebels from since reconstruction, if he were to be elected, I asked him, would he support, you

you know the current legislation and in our first interaction he told me no he would not he would not support a reparations bill because he wanted to focus on the bottom one-third of Mississippians or the bottom one-third of Americans and this lift all boats policy that he is proposing would

Eventually, if we focused on the bottom one-third, then we would eventually close this wealth gap that we would never be able to close with that measure. And so I was able to follow up with Mike Espy at a second rally that we had here in Gulfport, Mississippi.

at the IBEW building. These are some great workers that work at that, you know, these are union workers. And so he came again and we spoke again and because of the advocacy again and because of the pressure that, you know, our organization was able to put on Mike Espy, he decided to say that he would support this study

But he does not support cash allotments for the recipients of reparations. And so, again, you know, therein lies the problem that I have with establishment Democrats and even establishment Republicans, because Donald Trump is even throwing around this platinum plan again because of our advocacy in California to push that reparations bill. I don't know if you guys have heard of Ice Cube, the rapper Ice.

Ice Cube went to Gavin Newsom and he helped to push this legislation over. And so Ice Cube is getting a lot of flack right now because he has a contract for Black America, which was influenced, some of which was influenced by our organization, ADOS, American Resistance to Slavery.

we were able to influence Ice Cube to, in his contract with Black America, to acknowledge, you know, the contributions of American descendants of slavery in America and to, you know, to try to advocate on behalf of a Black agenda. You know, as far as, listen, when we talk about

This is a bipartisan issue. This is not a, you know, a Republican issue. This is not a Democratic issue. This is a bipartisan issue. This is an American issue because we are still, you know, looking at these wealth gaps and a lot of this wealth inequality. And there is no other way to bring, you know, we've talked about baby bonds. We've talked about disengagement.

different ways that you could bridge this well gap, you know, forgiveness through the loan debts. The majority of these Republicans and Democrats, even like I said, with the Platinum Plan, that's a bunch of opportunity zones that are just re-identification models. The same thing with the Lift Every Voice Plan with Joe Biden. We've approached his campaign. The only

that I saw was Tom Steyer and Marianne Williamson. We had a conference last year in Louisville, Kentucky at Simmons College. Dr. Kevin Cosby, we invited every presidential candidate to our conference. The only presidential candidate that came was Marianne Williamson. She was the only one that showed her face. Dr. Cornel West, he came and he spoke and

And he supports reparations, a federal reparations bill. But what we're doing now, we're taking matters into our own hands, and we're pushing our state legislators to adopt and introduce, you know, reparations legislation in the various slave states.

I know you've seen like that the California bill has passed and so now when I you know so now our focus here in Mississippi is to focus on the legislative black caucus here in Mississippi this is a red state and so we're going to have to cross the aisle in order to get legislation passed and I think that's what has

has to happen on a national level as well. With any legislation or with any policy that you want to get passed, you have to cross the aisle in some way. Now, at this point, we are trying to get an agenda that is specific to us. We see a lot of legislation that's been passed

in the last five to 10 years or so that has benefited every demographic, every group, except for American descendants of slavery. And we look at the data and the data says that this group is in economic collapse in America. And when you look at the unemployment numbers,

even in Mississippi, the poverty in Mississippi, the poverty rate for black Americans, you know, American descendants of slaves is 21%. It's 31% in Yazoo County. This is in Mike Essig County. It's 31% in his county. It's 21%. The national average, I want to say, is like, what, 18, 19%? You know, so, you know, Mississippi is above the national average as far as the poverty level. And the, you know, black poverty levels and the black poverty

infant mortality rates in Mississippi is abysmal. And so, and this is just not in Mississippi, this is across the board when you look at the data. And so the bottom 50% of black households are worth less than $1.

So that was really awesome to hear from Vanessa and Leo. They're really passionate and really well-spoken. And I think I'm passionate, but maybe not as well-spoken. But to jump off of, you know, what Leo was talking about in his own state, here in Maine, poverty is a really big problem. We're a rural state. We're an old state.

And we're not very racially diverse. But as far as poverty goes, there's a lot of it here. And it doesn't feel like our politicians are recognizing it. It feels like they're ignoring it. You know, we have these little tiny victories with COVID when the kids were home. There were, you know, free school lunches for everyone.

which is good, but only if you can get to the drop-off site, only if you have internet so you know that there's free school lunches and where to get them.

You know, in this state, there is a lot of poverty. And in that poverty, there's a lot of disparity. Recently, I looked up just Maine Equal Justice's website and, you know, 15% of white children are living in poverty, whereas 40% of children from Maine's tribes and then 53% of Maine's Black or African-American families are

are living in poverty and COVID has exposed this as well because those, um, proportions bled over to, to COVID numbers too. I don't have those numbers right in front of me, but it, it was kind of, it was very similar percentages and, um,

When you really look at that, it's people that live in poverty, people that are of color. Those are the people that live in close proximity. They live in tenements.

And they're doing that quote unquote essential work. And that's been really hard that it's not been very much addressed. I don't think it's been very much addressed in this political cycle. It's disappointing. You know, this has impacted people from top to bottom and left to right. And it feels like our...

People in politics that are either running or already there have just ignored this. And yeah, it's really bothersome.

Well, and, you know, speaking of, um, you know, politicians, mainstream politicians, uh, not listening to working people, uh, Aaron, uh, you yourself, um, kind of have a history of, uh, doing whatever you could to, to get, uh, politicians to listen, uh, to you and to other working people when, uh, a couple of years ago you were actually arrested for, um,

you know, sitting in Susan Collins's, um, office in Maine, um,

And then, you know, trying to to speak to her about her support for President Donald Trump's massive tax cuts and Jobs Act. So I wanted to kind of ask a little more about that and what that means for, you know, like you as a, you know, working person who is trying to kind of tell politicians what really does matter to you and to working people around the state and around the country.

Yeah, so I guess the best thing I can say about that is I was pissed. And I felt clearly very strongly because I refused to leave her office. And, you know, the thing is, is I'm a nurse and I have a decent job. My husband has a decent job. We have good benefits. We're really fortunate.

But it really, really burns me to the core that there are a whole lot of other people that aren't as fortunate, that can't stick their neck out on the line, that are being way more drastically affected by that bill and

many others that my senator is concerned and worried about. And I felt that I didn't have any other choice but to go all out. And we wanted to have a conversation with her. She was in D.C. and we were in Bangor at her office. And we just wanted to have a conversation on the phone with her. And she refused. And so we refused to leave her office. And

you know, it brought a lot of attention to the issue. It didn't necessarily end the way I wanted to. And of course it wasn't resolved the way I wanted to because she still voted for the dang thing. But I think that it brought a lot of attention to it. And we're in a really heated and contested race here in Maine in CD2. And people haven't forgotten that. So it was uncomfortable and

I'm not typically someone that just, you know, goes out and, you know, acts willy nilly or flouts the law, but I felt really passionate about it. I still feel really passionate about it. I'm still upset with her. And, you know, um, you know, speaking of, you know, kind of these, these sorts of local issues, you know, that, that have, you know, uh,

significance far beyond kind of their individual states. You know, Vanessa, I know that you too, you know, as not only a worker, but an organizer and an outspoken advocate yourself, you

You know, you have have really been on the front lines kind of ringing the alarm about Proposition 22 in California, among many other kind of legislative and economic injustices, particularly those that impact gig workers like yourselves, so-called gig workers.

And so I wanted to kind of ask, you know, building on what Chef Leo and Aaron were talking about in their respective corners of the country, if if you could talk a little bit about, you know, the things that have really been driving you as a worker and voter.

Yeah, I'd be happy to. So Prop 22 is a ballot proposition in California that was written by Uber, Lyft, Instacart, DoorDash, and Postmates. It was also funded by Uber, Lyft, Instacart, DoorDash, and Postmates.

I say this with a fierce sense of urgency and really not to sound alarming, but this is just the reality. This is probably the most important ballot measure in labor of my lifetime. What's at stake here is so much greater than the gig economy, right?

the gig economy as defined specifically for the intentions of this ballot measure is app based transportation network and delivery network workers. So, you know, there is a larger and broader, you know, encompassing definition of the gig economy, but this proposition was actually tailored

and narrowly drafted to apply only to app-based workers. What it would do is essentially

and permanently sort of create this third classification of worker that is neither an independent contractor nor an employee, but something called a marketplace contractor, which essentially is the best of both worlds for gig companies, because what it does is it allows them to have a high degree of control over our work

as they always have, by the way, without having any of the costs, risks, or liabilities of properly classified employees. To give a little bit of background, in 2019, there was an assembly bill called AB5, Assembly Bill 5, that created a very clear and a very strict...

you know, delineation between what an employee and an independent contractor is. And more importantly, also establish the default presumption of employment and any sort of like hiring entity and hired labor situation, unless companies can prove that, you know, workers are free from the control of company, that their labor is not central to the business of the company.

and that these workers are already engaged in an independently established trade in the same area. All of those prongs of what's called the ABC test

which is what AB5 codified, gig companies categorically fail, right? And they've spent a substantial amount of time and money trying to carve themselves out of AB5.

um, argue that AB5 does not apply. Um, and then, uh, most recently about a year ago announced their intentions to draft their own, um, labor laws and, and, and really codify them through, uh, proposition 22. And unfortunately, as I'm sure I don't have to tell most people who are, um, conscientious about what, you know, um,

corporate funding in politics looks like, this is a disaster for all workers, not just gig workers. It sets a really dangerous precedent to allow companies to draft and implement their own labor laws, right? And gig companies especially, who have been notoriously, you know,

avoidant of the law and worked, you know, really in what is clear violation of the law. Some of them like Uber, for example, for over a decade. So, you know, the stakes are very high because once, you know, once

a proposition like this succeeds, it's only a matter of time before Amazon does it, before employers like Target or Walmart or Starbucks are going to hire people through an app and call them gig workers, right? So what we're talking about is really the erosion of all of these labor rights that

workers literally fought and died for over the past century. And, you know, this is something that's incredibly, I think, alarming to, you know, not just, again, not just gig workers, but really all working class people.

And even if you know you're a union member, I can give you guys an example. Grocery is a really good example of this, where what has been considered traditionally a union job has been gigified.

Through companies like Instacart, through companies like Shipt, and through companies like Jive, gig workers are now providing, you know, sort of like essential labor services in this grocery ecosystem on a 1099 basis.

which comes without any of the protections rights and benefits of employment and which is largely subsidized by individual workers so you know unfortunately the stakes are very high when it comes to proposition 22 the companies have funded this campaign to an

astronomical $185 million, which, you know, it wouldn't surprise me if their contributions reach $200 million before this election is over. This is the most expensive proposition campaign in California history and quite possibly in the entire country. And, you know,

again, I don't know how else to say it, but never in the history of capitalism have five competitors colluded in the way that these companies are doing so to essentially

you know, really like solidify a second class status for their workforce. And unfortunately, because these companies, you know, have asymmetrical access to workers and consumers, they've really been largely able to craft and frame this narrative as they see fit. So, you know, the way that they're

you know, explaining this measure to workers is it, you know, protects their flexibility and their independence, which, by the way, AB5 is a law that also does that. And any loss of flexibility or independence that workers might suffer would be only at the hands of the company. It's not at the hands of the law itself.

So, you know, they've been able though, unfortunately to weaponize the technology that workers have to use to, to work our apps against us in, in, in ways that are just incredibly draconian and very, very, very alarming, I think for sort of what the future of campaigning could look like. And just to give a couple of examples and, and,

I'll move on to the other couple of ballot measures I want to plug really quickly. But, you know, Instacart recently, just about a week ago, was instructing contract workers to distribute propaganda in favor of this ballot measure with one, no compensation and two, against their own self-interest.

And this should be something that I think alarms everybody. When your employer can direct the course of your political speech, that's something that, you know, properly classified workers are protected from. DoorDash is distributing propaganda in the form of bags that say yes on 22 to its partner restaurants, which then a misclassified employee is expected to deliver to the consumers.

Uber has sent messaging in app to customers saying that their driver supports this with no substantiation and really political opinions of workers are really not the concern of consumers. In ways that it's just really disgusting, these companies have really leveraged their immense financial and political power against workers.

And one of probably the most disgusting examples of this is when there was an injunction in the AG's case in California against Uber and Lyft. Uber and Lyft threatened to walk out of the state rather than comply with the law.

And that kind of capital strike is obviously an attempt to weaponize consumers against workers. And that's just also very disgusting, but also to scare workers into believing that they're actually going to leave. And, you know, what I say to that is you won't do it. You're not down. They're not going to do it. But nevertheless, they're willing to resort to these kinds of tactics constantly.

and really scare people into complying with what their will is, right? A couple of other just ballot measures I want to touch upon really quickly, propositions that were

that are upcoming in California in this election, you know, Prop 16 would reverse our ban on affirmative action. And that's an incredible step in the right direction. I think I talked with you, Max, on working people a little bit about, you know,

my mom being somewhat of an activist herself and the very first direct action, I remember her coordinating and organizing and one that I got to go to with her, um, was against prop 209, which would have banned defer, which did actually ban affirmative action in the state of California. So I'm very, very happy to see this on the ballot. And I'm very encouraged, um, that, you know, California is going to get it right this time. Um, the second thing, um,

that I wanted to also mention is we have the opportunity to end cash bail in California statewide. And this is a huge issue and one that much like the issues in the gig economy primarily affect working class people and people of color. And so, you know, I just wanted to, you know,

send a strong message of support also when it comes to ending cash bail. Also, I would say, you know, a no on 22, which is a tough on crime bill, which would increase some misdemeanors to felonies. I obviously oppose and I will leave it kind of at that. But yeah, I mean, we have some we I will say in California, I think

this set of ballot measures in particular has a really profound opportunity to really positively impact

you know, some of our most marginalized communities. Um, and, and some of these measures, you know, like 20 and 22 and things like that, um, also have the, um, you know, ability to, to swing the pendulum the other way. Um, so there's a lot at stake right now. I know there are a lot of people that are less than enthusiastic about the presidential election, including myself. Um,

But for those of us that are enfranchised to vote, which is unfortunately obviously not all of us, but for those of us that are, there are some really, really, really, really, really pivotal races that are happening and some opportunity to make real advances toward social justice work that organizers and advocates have been working on for literally decades.

So I encourage people to vote, you know, even if you're abstaining from voting in the presidential election, if you're able to do so, to vote at least in those down ballot races. Well, and, you know, Vanessa, like, you know, you really, really hit on, you know, kind of something that I imagine will be

quite painfully obvious now to listeners, right? Even just listening to a snippet of a conversation between workers in different parts of the country, like yourselves, that there's so much that we're not talking about, even though we are facing nonstop election coverage

in every corner of the country right now. You turn on any TV, you check any social media feed, you look at the front page of any publication, it's all election news all the time. And yet,

you know, that election news tends to overwhelmingly focus for perhaps obvious reasons, you know, the presidential election, right? And there's just breathless coverage and endless pundit pontificating on, you know, the presidential election between, you know, the contest between Democratic candidate Joe Biden and Republican current sitting president Donald J. Trump.

And, you know, I could honestly talk to y'all for days about these kinds of things. And, you know, I feel terrible that, you know, we're only able to give listeners, you know, just this kind of snippet of great conversation. But I really, really appreciate y'all again sharing your time and your thoughts and your passion with us.

But I just wanted to kind of focus on that weird disconnect that Vanessa kind of articulated at the end of her last response, right? Is that, you know, there's so much clearly for all three of you. There's so much at stake in this election or in elections in general, right? Stuff that really speaks to, you know, your wants, your needs and the needs of, you know, working people around the country, right?

And yet, you know, there is so little room in mainstream media, in establishment politics, as we've been calling them, to discuss these kinds of things. And I guess I wanted to round things out.

By asking you three, you know, why do you think that is? Um, or what is your impression of why that is? Like, how do, how do politics in America make you yourselves, you know, feel heard or valued? And, um, you know, I imagine to any working person listening to this right now, um,

they have a lot of questions about where we go from here and how to move forward when this is the situation in front of them. And so I really wanted to, again, thank you all for joining us and ask if you just had any final thoughts on why we're in this situation, why working people are in this situation in relationship to politics in the United States.

and what you see as a necessary kind of path forward to working people having more of a voice and having more power and for their needs and concerns being more and better represented in the halls of power itself. - Yeah, so, you know,

our country is one that's built upon a legacy of genocide and slavery and imperialism. And, you know, the master's tools are never going to dismantle the master's house. I think that it's important and imperative that people, you know,

participate in their democracy by voting, but not placing all of their eggs in that basket, right? It's not a system that's designed to be voted into obsolescence, right? And so I think it's, you know, critical and imperative that people organize and that they understand that there's so much more to civic engagement than electoral politics.

And that starts in your home, in your school, in your workplace. It starts with, you know, implementing democracy and creating democracy in ways that it just doesn't exist yet, right? If you're a worker, that means probably, you know, unionizing your workplace and doing so from the bottom up and in a way that isn't...

just about, you know, having sort of like this formal organization, but really like living that experience. And again, I really think that, you know, when it does come to electoral politics, we need to move beyond this, this two party bullshit, right. And, and have a real worker led worker centered party. I think that, you know, there's a lot of sort of

Othering that's involved in sort of this two party paradigm right when the reality is is that overwhelmingly most Republicans and most Democrats are working class people and many of them are poor and and.

we need to really shift the power away from the institutions that uphold these legacies of slavery, of genocide, of imperialism, and back into the hands of everyday people. Because it's very easy to feel disillusioned if you feel like you're reliant on Donald Trump or Joe Biden to save us.

Neither one of them can, nor do they want to. Their interests are in maintaining the trajectory of an imperial presidency and expanding well before Donald Trump, what was a vast expansion of presidential powers, right? That's been happening for the better part of the last century.

So, you know, what I think would, you know, really...

be sort of like the first step in a solution is for, you know, people to organize, to find causes that they're passionate about, whether it's racial justice, whether it's justice for immigrants, whether it's justice for workers or women or, you know, trans folks. It's like,

find something that you're passionate about that you can dedicate some of that passion to making better. And if we all did that, we would live in a significantly better world. Um, I'm, I'm not sitting around and waiting for somebody to come and save me. I don't want to be saved. Um, I want to, I want to save myself. Right. Um, and what that means is, is, is building power. That's undeniable. Um, and that is, um,

you know, infectious and contagious, um, to my community. Uh, so that's, I, I think probably all I have to say on that or else I'm going to keep going for way too long. Um, but I just implore everybody to get involved at the community level, um, and make your power undeniable. Um, and

and make politicians listen and comply with what working class people, what people of color, what marginalized people, what immigrants need and want.

Okay. I would like to just, again, you know, thank you guys for allowing me to be on tonight, you know, in solidarity, you know, with, with, with you guys' work and what we're doing here in Mississippi. You know, just to, to, to, to, to close out, I would, I would love to say,

that, again, you know, these issues that we're all talking about tonight, these are all bipartisan issues. These issues have nothing to do with party or a two-party system, you know, what one likes and what the other one doesn't like. This has nothing to do with that. Tonight's conversation and the conversation that we should all be having with America is how can we

implicate restorative justice throughout America. Whether it be, like I said, for the different marginalized groups, but most importantly for me, for ADOS, for American Incident and Slavery. Because again, these are the groups that have been marginalized since Reconstruction,

to the civil rights era and now we're looking at the situation with mass incarceration, George Floyd, Amanda Castile, the names go on and on and on. And so our obligation as progressives, whether you be black, white or whatever, our obligation as progressives is to look out on the least among us

And right now in America, in my opinion, because we have the wealth data, even among poor whites and poor blacks in America, blacks are on the bottom of the totem pole in this society. And so this has nothing to do with how much one or the other works hard. This is a systemic issue that has gone on from chattel slavery.

If you look at the Indian Brahmin caste system in India, right? There's a caste system, right? And there's a caste system in America that has relegated

American descendants of slaves at the bottom of this caste system, regardless of what party is in power, regardless of what class we're looking at. Again, we're a lineage-based movement, American descendants of slaves. It's about lineage in this country, not necessarily about what class.

in my opinion. It's about lineage. And we look at the lineage of the American descendants of slavery and throughout the lineage of this group, they have been at the bottom cast of America throughout every presidency, every, you know, regardless of every, you know, characteristic. And so, again, what I would love to do, again, is to galvanize progressives like yourselves

I worked with Maureen Simmons. Maureen Simmons, she's at Cal Berkeley. She's at Cal Berkeley. She's one of the authors of Proposition 16. She authored AB 3121, along with Shirley Weaver. And when we talk about policy in America,

what I would love to do is to get with people like, like Aaron, like Vanessa and, and yourself, Max. And I want to get with you guys and be able to provide transformative policies in America that, that, that, that provides equity to all Americans, not just, you know, these, the oligarchs of the world, not, you know, and not just these certain groups, but for all Americans, you know,

But we have to start with American descendants of slavery because this is the beginning. Who built the country along with other immigrants as well, but these are the ones before there was an Irish immigrant, before there was an Italian immigrant, before the Immigration Act of 1865, there were American descendants of slaves. We were here since 1619.

We were here since 1619. And so we fought in every war. My great-grandfather, William H. Carney. There's a book by C.W. Whittier. It talks about William H. Carney and the 54th Massachusetts Infantry. This is my great-great-grandfather. He was the first African-American to be awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor.

I don't toot my own horn, but these are things that I would impart to you guys and let you know that I am the quintessential patriot in this country. You understand? And so, again, I fall alongside the Union Army. I'm a native of Mississippi, but my ancestor came from Massachusetts. He came here to free us.

our people here in the South and the slaves in the South. And so, you know, this is near and dear to my heart. And so when, you know, when I talk to people like yourselves, you know, I want to, you know, and I'm elated by the, you know, the opportunity to speak to you guys because you guys have that passion. You guys have the fervor in your hearts to want to change the hearts and the minds of

you know, this two party system. And so as an independent voter, like I've been in my whole life, most African-Americans in the South have always been independent voters because Democrats in the South were, you know, there were segregationists, you know, if we want to be honest about the conversation. And so,

Fannie Lou Hamer, who, ADOS Mississippi, who we patterned our chapter after Fannie Lou Hamer, she went to the Democratic National Convention to be able to have a seat, for blacks to have a seat at the Democratic National Convention in 1964. And they turned her away. The Democratic National Convention, they were holding Barry Goldwater's son.

Do you understand? And so this is what I'm fighting against in Mississippi as a black voter in Mississippi. I'm fighting against a two-party system as well as a structural oppressive system who looks at me as the bottom caste in America. And so I need support from

I need support from any ally who is willing to help lift us from the bottom cast. And so I thank you guys for tonight. And I thank you for the conversation that you all have provided for us tonight. Well, I want to just say to Leo and Vanessa, you guys are awesome. You are wicked inspiring and passionate and fun. And I'm so glad we did this. So Max, you were saying that

A little bit ago, you know, it's all election all the time. And that struck me like it is. It's all encompassing. It's exciting, but it's really exhausting. And one thing that keeps coming up in this all election all the time is unemployment rates, which are important. That's an important measure. But I never hear...

health insurance or rates of uninsured people tied to that, because that's what unemployment means, right? This is how many people that don't have access to healthcare. Um, as a nurse, that's scary. It's frustrating as a worker. It's, it's, it's both of those things all the same. Um, and

I think that as a society, we should be less concerned with how many people are unemployed. And our real litmus test is how many of our numbers or what percentage can or maybe can't access healthcare. I think that's the real test of our society's prosperity and wellbeing.

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