David Catanese on Liz Cheney, the Midterms, and What It All Means for Trump 52:40

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Welcome to another episode of Breaking Battlegrounds with your host Chuck Warren. I'm Sam Stone in the studio with us today. As always, the irrepressible Kylie Kipper. She's ignoring us. Yes, you are. I would never ignore you.

Yeah, folks, she has her head buried in her phone, ignoring us again. She's doing research. She's doing research. Yeah. On the line with us, David Katanese, national political correspondent for McClatchy in Washington. He's covered campaigns for more than a decade, which, frankly, David, makes you a rarity among reporters these days.

that you've had that much experience. Previously working at U.S. News & World Report and Politico. Prior to that, he was a television reporter for NBC affiliates in Missouri and North Dakota. David, thank you and welcome to the program. Greetings from the swamp. David, what do you prefer, the written word or TV? I prefer the written word. I have detached myself from television. I cut the cord.

I find most cable news pretty useless. I know there are a lot of good people in it who try to do good things, but I stopped learning from cable news and I found even as being a guest, you couldn't really have intelligent conversations giving the format and just the aesthetics that drive television. So

I'm sort of a non-traditionalist anymore and that most reporters want to get on TV. I started in TV wanting to do that. Now I just love writing. And frankly, the podcasting format, I'm very attracted to because it allows you a longer conversation. Longer formats. David, we want to start with a clip here. Dick Cheney cut a commercial for his daughter who has a primary next Tuesday. Go ahead, Jeremy. I know.

In our nation's 246-year history, there has never been an individual who is a greater threat to our republic than Donald Trump. He tried to steal the last election using lies and violence to keep himself in power after the voters had rejected him. He is a coward. A real man wouldn't lie to his supporters. He lost his election, and he lost big. I know it, he knows it, and deep down, I think most Republicans know it.

Lynn and I are so proud of Liz for standing up for the truth, doing what's right, honoring her oath to the Constitution, when so many in our party are too scared to do so. Liz is fearless. She never backs down from the fight. There is nothing more important she will ever do than lead the effort to make sure Donald Trump is never again near the Oval Office. And she will succeed. I am Dick Cheney. I proudly voted for my daughter. I hope you will, too.

I'm Liz Cheney, and I approve this message. Well, I don't think we would expect any other commercial from Dick Cheney. Probably not, but it was powerful. I think it was meant to get under Trump's skin, right? He knows he lost. He lost big. And I bet even his support, you know, even Republicans deep down know it. So I'm sort of of the belief that Cheney is going to lose the primary. I don't think this will move much.

many primary voters. I mean, everything that I have heard internally and externally is she's down by double digits. They're trying to get Democrats now to cross over. And anytime you're trying to do that, I mean, you know, that's a heavy lift. I do think the most important line is at the end of that ad when he says she's going to do everything in her power to keep Trump far away from the Oval Office, which signals to me this is already about the future.

And her running for president, her very good point after she loses this race, she's still going to have an after platform. And if Trump runs again, I think you could see Liz Cheney just run again. Not not that she can beat Trump, but just to be a nightmare for him. Do you think she runs? Do you think she runs as an independent or does she go to the GOP primary route?

I don't, man, she is so conservative. Her voting record is so conservative that it's hard for me to see her

go the independent. And I think you want to be in the primary debate with Trump, right? You want to be included in the debates with him because you're probably not going to beat him. But I think her idea is to wound the guy so much that he can't win, whether that's for another Republican to be able to beat him within the primary system, or he goes on and loses the general because he's had this, you know, she marshals

a significant portion of the party, not a majority of the party, against him during the primary process. David, I've got to ask, though, how much of that type of run is about her and her family staying in power? Because quite frankly, Chuck and I have talked about this quite a bit. I think there are a number of Republicans who can beat Trump if the field is very small, if it's one-on-one fairly early. My take is Trump will lose. But if you have a big multi-person field like 2016,

his bottom line number pretty much everywhere is 35 percent. And that becomes hard to beat. Yeah, I think, you know, again, I think she'll survey what the field looks like. What is Donald Trump's number? What is he polling in the spring of next, you know, of of 2023?

you know, does this, does a monster, another monster, can a, like a DeSantis get in, or is it a bunch of smaller names or does no one get it? So I think it'll depend on who else runs. Look, of course, Cheney, the Cheney's want to be in power. I mean, she wanted to run for Senate a couple of years ago and got ahead over her skis and had to pull that back. She was obviously ascended in leadership before her anti-Trump stance. So,

I think she, of course she wants to be in office. This is the family game and she loves to continue. I have not paid that much attention to her, quite frankly. Is she...

a really charismatic candidate who can bring people on board? Or is she kind of more in her father's vein of... She's more her dad. I don't view her as charismatic, but David's correct. She's conservative. She's just anti-Trump. Right. I mean, it's a real interesting situation. David, you go and you cover lots of races.

How are the Democrats and Republicans viewing the midterms coming up? And what are they both getting wrong about the view? I'll tell you a funny conversation I had. So I was talking this morning on the way over with a dear friend who is a chief of staff for a Republican member that's been there for a long time. You see him on television. And we were talking about a red wave. And I was expressing to him, unless Republicans get 20, 25 plus seats in the House, that is not a red wave. That

That's just the numbers have been set up there. And I said, I kept telling him, I said, what is our message? Is it just Biden's bad? And his response was, is our message that detailed? Yeah. I mean, look, history says this should be a very good year.

For Republicans, the average midterm gain is about 28 seats. Most forecasters right now, I just had a forecaster on my podcast last week, they're estimating it between 12 and 30 seats, depending on where Biden's approval rating is in about two and a half months, right? Late October. But there is a contrarian case being made. And I think the jobs numbers today are

help bolster this case that the Democrats have had a great summer or a better summer than expected, starting with the backlash to Roe, you know, mobilizing sort of liberal angst that wasn't there. People were down on Biden and now they have a reason to vote other than Biden. And that's what Democrats are saying, that there are more important reasons. Yeah, they're not happy with the president.

But if they if they can pull back just even if even a sliver, five to seven percent of those Democrats who are unhappy with Biden and they find a reason to go vote other than Biden. Right. They're they're happy because gas is going down. Gas prices are coming down. You know, the I think the the abortion thing was showed in Kansas. Right. You had a very conservative state come out.

Democrats, I mean, I wonder if they're overplaying their hand on that. You know, you see a lot of Democratic candidates just running the pro-choice lane. Abortion rights are under threat. Can they win by that alone? It's a complex, this is a complex election. I like to go with, you can't forget history. So I think the House likely falls. Republicans only need four seats. But I think the Democratic Senate map

Looks pretty damn good for them. And I would say if you had me today, I'm putting together my projections that will run next Tuesday or next Monday, which will be three months from Election Day. And I have the Democrats picking up one seat.

After all is said and done, the six or seven states that are in play, I have them up one seat as for today. That's a pretty good outcome for a potential red wave year. And if look, the other thing is, I think minimizing losses. I think Republicans likely gain the House at this point. They only need four.

But if they only pick up 10, is that a red wave? No. Is that a great night? No, it needs to be 20-plus. I mean, anything less than that is not a red wave. That's just – and people forget they had – in 2020, they picked up a sizable portion of seats they weren't supposed to, right? So they've done half that work already. But unless it's 20-plus seats –

And you keep what you have and the status quo on governor seats. It's not a red wave. And as my friend and I were joking, Biden bad is just not a message. And I you know, and the funny thing is, Republicans seem to have some real issues. I mean, for example, we had George Kaloff, who's a pollster here in Arizona, one of the better ones. And I said, describe what the one one word message should be. He said security.

And I don't see Republicans really push enough. I was I've been I was in New York two weeks ago. I was in Chicago the other night. It was amazing, David, how many people talked about they didn't like being out at night walking. Yeah. I mean, so so that's real. And, you know, and people talk about crime. But when people are just actually bringing that up for no reason at all, you know, it's it's one of those things, you know, for example, on are we in a recession or not?

People just know if they have less money, doesn't matter if they have a job, they have less money. It's not a great economy for them. And you don't judge that by words or numbers. And so I think that's sort of the things that play in Republicans favor. Sam and I, when when this decision came on road, came out, him and I both were talking at night like Republicans don't get what an issue this is going to be for them. It will probably take away three or four congressional seats they could have had.

Yeah, I think I mean, the more the more I think about this, it seems like this could be more of a wash of a year politically than it is a huge win for either side. I mean, either way, you're going to have a very closely divided Senate. Now, that is very important who controls Senate, because we know with judges, the federal level, the Pell level confirmations, very important, even if you're only have a one seat advantage. But

But yeah, the House will likely be very closely controlled either way as well. I mean, if Republicans do win, as expected, if they pick up 10, 12 seats, I think that's now the median prediction. That's not a huge margin to work with.

either. And then we're very quickly into the 2024 race. And we're talking about who may run, if Trump's going to run, if Biden will run again. And we're right into that cycle. Very, very quick. How old, as a matter of fact, I was saying today, how old is Biden if he runs, if he wins a second term? Is it true he will be 86?

If he wins a second term? Yeah, if he wins and fulfills. I think he would be 86 at the end of it, right? He's 79 now. So that would be 86 years. So yeah, if he makes it through the whole thing. That just seems wrong. I'm at the point now where I think that like,

I think they know he's not running. I think that he can't. He probably probably can't. Breaking the problem is they don't have a VP who is David. I apologize. I got to cut you off. We're going to go to break real quick and coming right back with more from David Katniss on Breaking Battlegrounds. Welcome back to Breaking Battlegrounds with your host, Chuck Warren and Sam Stone on the line with us right now. David Katniss, national political correspondent for McClatchy in Washington, Texas.

David, tell folks how they can follow you. Tune in. You have a great podcast folks should tune into. How do they keep up with you and your work? Well, I got in the Substack game this year. So that's where a lot of my most interesting work is dropping now. It's just davidkatnese.substack.com. It's called Too Close to Call, representing our very competitive political nature these days where every race is very close. It's a good name. No one knows what's going to happen.

And yeah, I'm doing podcasts there. A lot of analysis, a lot of original reporting on too close to call. And then at Twitter would be at Dave Katnese at D-A-V-E-C-A-T-A-N-E-S-E. Folks, I signed up for David's Substack account. I paid the $50 for the year.

The writing's good, it's interesting, so I think you should take a look at it. It's a lot of fun and before you know it, David will be a millionaire and that's the way it all works on Substack, right? - Well, yeah, right. I mean, I'm just trying to make it to lunch.

You know? David, tell us, how did you get into this game? It's an interesting profession. Yeah. We talked earlier, you were first a TV reporter. Now you're in the written word and podcast world. But when you were young, is this something you always wanted to do? Or did you want to be a cop or a fireman for a while? I mean, what happened? You know...

My parents signed me up for a class, a journalism class and a politics class when I was a junior in high school. It was a program out at the University of California, San Diego. My mom put me on a plane. I don't really know much, but I interned at the 1996 Republican National Convention.

For MSNBC, when they were just launching and I took a journalism class out there and I saw the bright lights and the cameras and I'm like all these politicians and reporters that I'd watch on TV. And I said, I want to be a part of this. I didn't know exactly how you're 16, you know, but I was like, this is where the action is. This is the biggest event. I don't really understand politics yet. I didn't really have hardened political beliefs yet.

But I just liked sort of the action. Like this was the event to be at. This is I want to be at more of this. This is how we sucker people in. We make it look really glamorous from the outside. Yeah. Yes. And then, you know, 20 years later, you're like, wow, can I make a living off of this? Are newspapers going to exist? So after that, you went to where'd you go to college?

I went to Susquehanna University, a small university in the middle of the sticks in Pennsylvania. And then I went, I worked at a local newspaper to save for graduate school because I wanted to do TV.

And I was told I needed like a resume tape and I didn't have that coming out of undergrad because I was in a fraternity drinking too much and partying. So I went to graduate school at Northwestern and got the big shiny graduate school degree, which got me a job that paid, I think, $22,000 a year in Bismarck, North Dakota. So I think...

Medill was $60,000 a year. And that was so you can do the math on how that works. But I was a political. I mean, I was one of the first to get a job out of my class. And it was a tiny job in North Dakota. I covered the state capitol. Bismarck is also colder than hell. You can't even look across the street because you got to have your head down because it's so cold. The wind is the wind is brutal. It is.

But lovely people. I met amazing people. I met like the governor's chief of staff in North Dakota would take me out on his boat. He had a pontoon boat in the Missouri River in the summers. This is obviously not in the winter, in the summer months. And he would just tell me stories about politics and North Dakota, great inside stuff. And

You know, you couldn't get that in like a New York or California. Big states, like they're not going to talk to a young reporter. But in a small state, which I don't think reporters do anymore, like everyone just kind of comes to Washington. You're 23. Someone will hire you. You can get a job. They'll throw you right on TV. The business has changed so much. I mean, I was told start local.

Cut your teeth. Learn how to write local copy. I mean, I covered planning board meetings and zoning board meetings, whether a car dealer could put a light up and would it shine in Mrs. Johnson's yard and did she have the right to complain? Now it's like the reverse. It's like go right national. And you can be, they'll throw you right. You can be on MSNBC at 23. And if you have the look and if you're hungry enough,

So it's sort of an inverse career path. And that's not a good inverse because think about what you know now as a more mature individual with work experience and life experience versus what you knew at 23. Oh, of course. But I mean, I know I sound like the old man that says like, yeah, you got to cut your teeth. I mean, I get it. The world has changed. If I was coming up now, I probably wouldn't have gone to North Dakota.

or Missouri, I would have probably staked my, but I was told like, no, you can't work in DC. You're not ready. Like you don't, don't fool yourself. And now I think it's the opposite. Like anybody could make it. It doesn't matter your age, your background. I'm going to tell you something. You, you interviewed me for the article you did for your sub stack account. That's how we've met. And the one thing I noticed about you as I was talking to a friend after is that

I get called a lot about races. You ask the most thoughtful questions, which I could tell immediately you were actually a reporter once. Some of the questions is just sort of like I need to fill the checklist here. So I say I have X. You are actually interested in the background of your story. And that's rare. And so the sort of needs to go back, I feel. Well, there's another element to me, David and Chuck, is racism.

Local government is far more unifying than national politics. I mean, if you look at your local government, 95% of what it does is stuff everyone there is going to agree on. Maybe they have small differences in how they position that light on the car dealer's lot, but it's a unifying process for the most part. I do worry that our focus on all national politics all the time is

Which is being driven partially by that shift because nobody understands or pays attention to local politics is damaging. Yes, I agree. Yeah. And it's also I mean, part of this is that newspapers and media organizations don't have the resource to invest in like a state capital bureau as much as they did. And they don't want to put money into it. I mean, one of the reasons I got out of television is because.

you know television is all about the flashing screen and the blinking lights and the fire and the sex offender and the plane crash

And I would have, you know, I would just have big stories that I'd be working on. I get pulled off of them very quickly. And because it's all about, you know, the fire on the corner rather than the tax bill that's going to affect you 10 years from now. Yeah, absolutely. We have just about a minute and a half left before our next segment. When we get back, David, what do we want to talk about in our final segment with you is what are this? If

If you had to list two or three surprises in November, what do you think those surprises would be or races that people should really pay attention on instead of just the generic, this is what's going to happen? And do you think what happens if the Senate candidates that Donald Trump backed in the primaries who won, if they lose, does that have any effect upon Donald Trump? Is there ramifications for him on that? Yeah.

So I want to talk about that when you get back, Sam. Anything else? Well, I do think there will be ramifications. I think one of the things Trump has done by endorsing all these candidates is he's put a lot of his credibility for 2020. He's taken ownership. He's taken ownership. Right. And ownership's always always a difficult cross to bear. So as we go to break here, David, do your parents watch your parents read all your written word? I would hope so. My mother will say she does, but you'll have to test her.

I know my mother when I've done stuff like that. She does not. Like she skims it and then, you know, hey, that was great. It's a great line from Modern Family. They notice when I'm on TV because that's the only thing anyone notices, unfortunately. And you can send them the clip. The clip's easy to watch and they can share with their friends and so forth. People like just, there's a special thing, tingle that people get when they see people on TV. The TV tingle. We'll be coming back with more from David Katanese in just a moment.

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Welcome back to Breaking Battlegrounds with your hosts Chuck Warren and Sam Stone. On the line with us right now, and thank you for joining us, David Katanese, national political correspondent for McClatchy. You can also get his work on Substack, which Chuck did and led to this conversation. And David does fantastic work. He obviously has a lot of insight into politics. When we were heading to break, Chuck, you asked David, what do you think?

What are the races people should be watching across the country this November that may give us some clues possibly on the 2024? So on 2024, this one race that I don't think is getting as much attention that I am keying in on is the Michigan governor's race, because I think if Gretchen Whitmer wins a second term, she could be a possible replacement candidate for Biden.

I think having a female governor in the Midwest who is successful politically, but also has some legislative accomplishments policy to go behind it. Biden really got close to her, got close to picking her over Kamala at the end of the VP process.

she's from battleground state. Biden's pollsters thought if they put Whitmer on the ticket, they would lock up most of those battlegrounds, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, in the middle of the country. I mean, if you're looking for someone onto 2024, if it can't be Biden and it can't be Harris because there's so much trepidation about her capabilities, look at Gretchen Whitmer. Now she's got to win this race.

Tudor Dixon just became a Republican nominee. That will be her opponent, but that'll be a race that I'm watching on the governor's side of things. On the Senate...

I'm deep in these Senate races every day, but there's one I keep coming back to. I wrote a piece for The Atlantic earlier this year. If your listeners want to Google it, it's called One Moderate Against the Red Wave. And it's about Tim Ryan's Senate candidacy in Ohio. Now, Ohio is a plus nine Trump state. The guy won it by nine points both times. But I just talked to a Democratic pollster yesterday. He told me that Tim Ryan is tracking a couple points ahead of J.D. Vance and

in that race. Now, J.D. Vance hasn't been on the air. Republicans are about to go up and spend a ton on TV. Most likely they think that moves the race back into J.D. Vance's column. But I would just say watch that space. Most people have written Ohio off the Democrats, but Tim Ryan is sort of a picture-perfect candidate

for that state. And I don't I think it's gonna be tough for him to pull it off. But that is my sleeper surprise that I'm going to be watching the whole way through. Do these Republican nominees for the Senate, do they're racist? I mean, you've covered politics a long time. Do they seem a bit chaotic versus Republican campaigns in the past?

Nah, I mean, I covered 2010 and 2012. And I think those are the two wildest Senate cycles that I've covered. 2010 was a I was my first I was thrown in the deep end at Politico. And I covered Christine O'Donnell and Sharon Engel and others.

I mean, even the Democratic primaries were wild. I mean, Blanche Lincoln was in a primary in Arkansas. Arlen Specter lost his primary in Pennsylvania. I mean, he became an independent. There was stuff popping up everywhere. It was the Adventist Tea Party movement. And 2010 to me was a very definitional cycle for how we are today. I would say that cycle much more so than today. I think one of the things that's happened more since that time, and David, tell me if you disagree. And Chuck, we've talked a little bit about this, but-

Democrats in competitive states no longer run actual primaries. Yeah, they've really closed them off. They really just closed them off. Yeah. For the most part, Wisconsin is just a great example of Mandela Barnes, the Democratic. He's going to be the Democratic nominee. He had four people running against him. They all dropped out in the last two weeks. They said, look, stakes are too high. We've got to beat Ron Johnson. I mean, this one guy spent 15 million dollars of his own money and then just said, eh, and

You know, there's a little more discipline on that side, which makes the Republicans more fun to cover. But I don't know to your question about whether Trump, I do think, I mean, I also wrote a story about this at the beginning of the year, how Trump has made this midterm and he wants it about him. You know, all these candidates that he's endorsed, if they don't, you know, he's won most of his primaries. I mean, a couple of his candidates have fallen short, but now his stamp is on it.

So if they don't win back the Senate, it's going to be like what happened with Blake Masters? What do you think? What do you think Donald Trump does with his hundred million dollars cash on hand that he has? Does he go put it in these races of people he supported? No, he won't.

I'm asking David. I know. I already know your answer. No, he won't. I don't. I doubt. No. I mean, he hasn't. His give back is the rally that he is about him. Right. Like he'll he'll go he'll go do some mega rallies. I think you'll see him in the fall and these states on on stage drawing masses of people.

And that'll be his gift and they'll take it and they'll put it in television ads. I don't know, maybe they won't. I mean, you saw Dr. Oz, who was running with Trump, has now pulled all the Trump branding off of his sites and logos and you don't hear about it anymore.

So that'll be an interesting thing to watch. How much is Trump integrated into the Republican branding in September and October? Yeah, absolutely. Great question. David Katniss, thank you so much for joining us today. We really appreciate having you on. Absolutely. Would love to have you again in the future. This was fun. Thanks, guys. Thanks, David. Thank you. Talk to you soon. Breaking Battlegrounds back in a moment.

All right, welcome back to Breaking Battlegrounds with your hosts Sam Stone and Chuck Warren. On the line with us right now, someone who has the same passion Chuck and I do. Not for politics, for baseball. The important things in life. One of the more important things in life, for sure. Maybe one of the most, the most important things, Chuck, let's be honest here. But it's a sad week in baseball. Yes. We were on the air, in fact, when we got the news that Finn Scully had passed away. The greatest voice in baseball history passed away.

And Dan has written a fantastic piece. And Dan McLaughlin, thank you for joining us today. He's Baseball Crank on Twitter. So, you know, this guy's legit when it comes to hardball. He is like us. He is a passionate believer in the game. And I know this is this has been a tough week in baseball for a lot of folks.

Dan, thank you for joining us. Well, I'm generally glad to be on the show. This is not the best of circumstances, but, you know, it is. Vince Scully had an amazing life, and, you know, we are trying to celebrate that. Well, Jeremy, could you play for us the two spots? We're playing here two calls by Vince Scully, and we'll go from there.

now is at the plate and to right field she is gone in a year that has been so improbable the impossible has happened now chuck what was that call of because because that gipson world series so next year we're going to do sandy kofax the perfect game go ahead jeremy

It is 9.46 p.m. 2-2 to Harvey Keene. One strike away. Sandy into his windup. Here's the pitch. Swung on and missed. A perfect game. Dan, one of the great things about him as the greatest broadcaster ever is that he let the sights and sounds speak for themselves, wasn't it?

Yeah, it really was. I mean, one of his things that got him into announcing in the first place was just listening to the roar of the crowd. And, you know, he was certainly by the end of his career the only broadcaster, I think, in the game who was still...

working alone in the booth. And working alone in the booth in particular gives you a little more power to do this. But, you know, at some of the very biggest moments, he would just let the crowd roar, let the sounds wash over the listener. Especially when he did his final broadcast performance

The fact that – I mean, so many people obviously would have filled up every inch of airspace on a day like that and be totally entitled to. No one would object if Vin had talked over that entire game and brought in all his friends on the air. But he called it like every one of the other games he'd called throughout his career. And he let the crowd speak for him throughout that game. Yeah.

I've listened to so many of his broadcasts. It literally brings a tear to my eye thinking that we're never going to hear that again. Yeah, and he had managed to remain, you know, he actually joined social media after, you know, a few years after his retirement just to pop in every now and then and just tell a story and, you know, share some things with some of the longtime fans.

Dan, when you were with him as family, did he talk baseball or was it more about family?

It was both. I mean, I think you could certainly get him into a baseball conversation. But he talked, you know, he talked baseball all the time. So he certainly didn't need to. But, yeah, I mean, you know, like the last time that I was out in California, this is before the pandemic. So, you know, we went out there with the kids and we were going to the Dodger game.

and they were giving away jerseys or something. And we ended up being late for the game. Of course, one always has difficulty parking at Dodger Stadium. But, you know, we were late in part because we hung out in his study and, you know, my son and I were just talking baseball, talking about the Dodgers. And, you know, my son was a little disappointed that he didn't get it. I think they were giving away Kershaw jerseys or something. But, you know, I was like, look,

Anybody else in this ballpark would give up their jersey in an instant for, you know, 10 minutes hanging out talking to Vin about baseball and the Dodgers. In a heartbeat. Does your son understand that now? Does your son understand that now, that comment now, that people would give up the 10 minutes with Vin versus a jersey? Yeah. Yeah.

You know, what is, give us your favorite Vin story, Dan. What is the story you tell people that you go, this is who he was? Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean, he was, you know, in private, he was exactly the same as on air. You know, he was somebody who was just generous and, you know,

you know, sort of cared about everybody. Uh, and, you know, obviously devoted to a very large family, many grandchildren. Um,

I mean, the story that I told in my piece that I think captured him as an announcer, the most impressive thing I ever saw was – this was probably about 1990 or so when he was doing a golf tournament. And golf never gets rained out, right, because mostly they play at Southern California, Arizona, Hawaii. The big tournaments are places that don't rain much. Right.

And yet they had, for whatever reason, they had a rain out. So he was stuck with three hours of live network TV time

With no event, no script and no time to prepare in advance, which is, you know, I mean, if anybody who has ever done any kind of TV or radio or podcasting or anything knows that that is an absolutely terrifying prospect. Right. Oh, God. That is a nightmare. Yeah. TV. Just have fun with it. Right. And and.

And he, you know, he gathered a bunch of the golfers together. You know, they all hung out in a tent by the clubhouse. And he got them telling stories. And, you know, professional golfers are not the most interesting people in the world.

You know, it's a solo sport. It's low-key. It rewards obsessiveness and calm. And so, you know, most of these guys are not big storytelling types. So, you know, it took a little work to get them going. But he managed to, you know, to keep it interesting and fun for three hours of unscripted TV time.

That is amazing. I mean, that is a perfect game in broadcasting to do that, right? Absolutely. Yeah, it is a perfect game. Dan, how much time did Vin spend preparing for a game? What was his routine?

Yeah, I mean, he did a ton of preparation. He got to the ballpark early. He talked to the players. He had all the notes and everything. I mean, there was a lot of preparation that went into being spontaneous. If you want to really be spontaneous, you need to be prepared.

I always used to say, you know, my days as a practicing lawyer, it's not what you know, it's what you can put your hands on when you're standing up there. But, you know, the more that you have at hand right in front of you, but also the more that you have in your head, into your head, the more you can just relax and have a conversation and not, you know, not feel like you're trying to scramble for something to say. Right.

Did he did Vin have a favorite sport? I know he was, you know, friends with with athletes and other sports and that sort of thing. Did he have a favorite sport outside of baseball? Golf. I think of the of the sports that he called definitely golf. You know, he really enjoyed doing the golf. You know, it was a more relaxing kind of, you know, and it has it has the slow pace that compares to baseball. Yeah.

you know, I think the, the, the, the sport he, of the ones he did over the years, I think the one he least enjoyed was tennis because tennis is, it's a totally different pace. It's frenetic. It's, um, uh, you know, but he did all kinds of things and people, people forget now, but you know, I mean, he did the NFL for many years. He, he actually did teams with John Madden when they first brought in Madden. Uh, but I think that was almost two of them was almost too much for one booth.

Which is why Madden teamed so well with Summerall. Yeah, what a contrast that is. My goodness. Yeah, I mean, I think they had fun, but I think they realized that it wasn't a natural pairing. No, I would not see that being a long-term successful partnership in broadcasting, although they're both totally brilliant in their own right. You could see that being kind of a difficult airspace at that point.

Chuck, did he have, Dan, to your knowledge, did he have a favorite Dodger team? Was there like that one year or a couple of years that he was sort of most fond of? He had some great eras.

Yeah, I mean, I think there's never anything quite like that first championship, right, in 55. But, you know, I mean, he just loved to tell stories about Koufax and Fernando. So, you know, there were so many great Dodger eras. I mean, he obviously had great affection for...

you know, Clayton Kershaw and the current Dodgers. So, you know, they had so many entertaining teams. But I think, you know, I think certainly the Brooklyn team was a team that was, you know, it was full of guys closer to his own age. What's your favorite Koufax story that he told?

I mean, I think you can't. I mean, you have to go with the conventional. You kind of can't top that call of the perfect game in 65. But, you know, I mean, one of the great stories, of course, is also kind of the first time he saw Kershaw and just started immediately making the connection to Koufax and his curveball.

Yeah, that would be – I mean, he had had a chance over the years to see the guys I consider the two best left-handed pitchers in the modern era. And the comparisons are paramount. My father was at that perfect game. He was a batting practice pitcher for the Dodgers at that time before he went on to the Red Sox. So he had –

He had a huge admiration for Vin and obviously for Sandy, especially being Jewish. Sandy Koufax will forever be the hero to the Jewish community throughout the baseball loving world. Absolutely.

Well, and I think there's, and that's the thing, I mean, those Dodger teams over the years, you would say that about Koufax, but then you talk about Jackie Robinson, you talk about Fernando, you know, they had so many of these guys who were iconic. You know, Hideo Nomo was really the first Japanese player to come over and really stick. So they had a lot of people who had that kind of iconic status within, you know, various slices of America.

What would be a takeaway in our final two minutes here, Dan? What is a takeaway you would want people to know about your uncle, Vin Scully? What is something people didn't know about him as a person, as a professional, that you think people should know that they don't know enough about?

I mean, I certainly would say, I mean, three things. Like I said, one, he really was very much the same in private and in public with, you know, sort of the famous and the ordinary folks. So, you know, what you saw on the air, really, that was really it. The second thing I think was his faith. It was so important to him and something that weathered him through so many family tragedies. Yeah.

And the third thing is just how far he came, you know, that he broke in and came up from nothing. You know, that my grandparents were immigrants and it was, you know, the 30s, it was the Depression, you know. So he came a long way in the world. Well, that's fantastic. Yeah.

How's your family handling it? Has it just been a sad time or something they were expecting for a bit? Yeah, I mean, it's always a sad time and it's a little bit surreal to be doing that, you know, in public, I guess I would say. Correct. Yeah, and thank you for joining us. We appreciate you joining us, Dan.

We hope you have, we hope your family's doing, feel some peace at this time. We appreciate you always being on the show and we thank you for sharing some stories with us today. Uncle brought a lot of joy to a lot of people for a lot of years. He was American as Norman Rockwell. Breaking Battlegrounds will be back next week. Thank you, Dan McLaughlin. Fantastic segment. Welcome to the podcast only segment of Breaking Battlegrounds.

Great show today. Really, really appreciated David Katniss and what he had to say. I thought he has very good insights as a national political reporter. And like you said, Chuck, that experience, that local experience makes a difference. Yeah, he was talking about the inverse. And I think the inverse needs to come back. Yeah. I just disagree. When I go on Fox or CNN or MSNBC and I see this 23, 24-year-old telling me what voters are thinking...

I just sort of roll my eyes because they don't know what voters are thinking. They're not out in the field. And I think the fact that he went from a small college, Pennsylvania to North Dakota, Bismarck, it's a different perspective. Right. And I think unlike a lot of reporters who graduate now from the Ivy League schools and go straight to work at whatever. Right. Right.

There's a track for current ones, right? They go from an Ivy League school to a major journalism master's. So they're in a bubble. And I think he would, you know, as he talked about going out with the chief of staff on his pontoon boat in the summer, not the winter. And... I don't know. You can ice surf your pontoon boat in the winter. Yeah, I didn't get the sense that that was his cup of tea. Talking about you couldn't look across the street with your heads down. So I think he bundled up. But...

You know, you just learn about people. So I imagine he's one reporter, which is this is going to people are going to find this odd, but I don't think it's true for a lot of them. I don't think he finds conservative people scary.

I think he's been on their boat. Right. He understands it. So he probably understands the perspective. I don't know his political persuasion. I'm sure he's leftist center, but I'm sure he's not left, left, leftist center. I don't know. And I've read his work. And that's hard to tell. Right. That's a really good thing. I mean, look, he did this article about Kerry on his substat. MAGA queen and making Trump's 2024 running mate is budding in Arizona. Right. Right.

Right. But he did this story and he I mean, you know, look, it's it's there's points there. Kerry will not like because there's some negative. I read the piece. It's balanced. But it's pretty balanced. And he talked about how good she was as a candidate and the energy provided. And so I think that's really important for whatever side you're on to go spend time with other people and realize they're not scary. That's always why the immigration issue in Utah has befuddled Republicans.

Well, that's because most of them have a cousin or a brother or daughter who went and served two years in Central and South America. So they're not scared.

The Hispanic population. Right. Well, I've dined with them. I've slept at their homes. It's a different ballgame when you actually get involved with people. Yeah, no, absolutely. And look, I mean, I'm on Kerry's campaign. I read that piece. I thought it was fair. Yeah, I mean, you know, there are some things I don't love them. They're coming from from our perspective. But you know what? He called it like he saw it.

And he didn't call it from a one sided perspective. He was giving a pretty good overview of that race. I mean, I thought when I read it that there's some clips carries campaign. They did a TV commercial. They could take from it. Yeah, no, absolutely. In fact, I think we may. Let's talk about Ron DeSantis again, made everybody in D.C. and New York.

hyperventilate this week, maybe cause a little depression. Bar bills went up. Ron DeSantis is excellent at that, by the way. He has caused more drinking in more liberal offices in New York and Washington. Liberal tears. So Ron DeSantis suspended the state attorney

who vowed not to force Florida's abortion law and also the gender surgeries. So it wasn't just that. Of course, the press immediately goes abortion. They're not going to do the one that. But he was also a non and one of those non prosecutor catch and release. Yeah. And so, by the way, folks, he is not any relation to me whatsoever. I want to be very clear about that. I'm interested to see where this goes, because this will be litigated. Yes. But I.

Clearly, clearly, progressive Democrat Andrew Warren clearly said he was not going to prosecute these two things, which were the gender surgery for kids and abortion, which in Florida is 15 weeks. I mean, it's not even a...

complete ban. It's 15 weeks. And he just said, I'm not going to prosecute it. I don't, I know prosecutors have discretion. Sure. And I'm not an attorney, but given a blanket saying, I'm just not going to do any of these period. You're, you're being wrong. You're being hired to, to enforce the law.

And, you know, look, there's a mechanism to change our laws at every level. There's a mechanism to change our laws. If you disagree with them, go out and run for the office, you know, the state legislature, the state Senate, go run for governor and change the law.

But I have a real problem with these prosecutors who won't prosecute crime, who will not follow the law. And this is another George Soros-funded progressive attorney. He doesn't deny it, said it went to the party. Come on. He knows exactly where the money came from. Right. And the money helped him win, helped him be an incumbent Republican. He's also taken off two-thirds of the people. He's dead.

not gone after capital cases on two thirds of the time. Crime has gone up there the last two years. It's not been significant, but it's going up. Right. Well, the New York Post came out today with an article and said, you know, look, this is what what the mayor Adams or Kathy Hochul needs to do with Brooklyn D.A. Alvin Bragg, who is the same kind of person, a Soros funded non-prosecutor who is putting New Yorkers at risk, making the city unsafe.

And they don't take that action. DeSantis does. And this is why people love him. Exactly. He just he puts a line in the sand. Yeah. He just puts a line in the sand. And we probably need more leadership that way. I mean, for example, we were talking earlier with David about my friend who's the chief of staff said when I said, is our message just Biden's bad? He goes, you know, is it that detailed? Right. With DeSantis, I think people can go into the voting booth in November and say, yeah,

This is what he stands for. Right. There's there is no equivocation on it, which makes him a fantastic leader, whether you like his policies or not. Well, and actually, that is one of the things I think that has been strongest about Carrie Lake here in Arizona is that people do know she stands for for actually doing real things. You might not like her or her her affiliation with Trump or her some of her policies. You might not like them.

But she's been really out front. Well, you're not guessing after things. You're not guessing, Kerry Lake. Let's talk quickly here as we are towards the end of our podcast. I am laughing that the mayor of D.C. and the mayor of New York are moaning and groaning about about a few thousand thousand immigrants. We have tens of thousands every week. And they act like we need the National Guard. We need extra federal funding. But aren't

Aren't these sanctuary cities? Am I wrong about New York City? No, they are sanctuary cities. They pass these laws. They are the most hypocritical, ridiculous persons on the planet. Well, maybe not because this is Democrats everywhere. I'm fired up on this because I'm insulted. I am too. If you're one of our listeners in Florida and you probably have family in New York, which is probably a three-degree separation here. 50-50.

50-50, at least a cousin is up there. You need to call your relatives in New York and just say, you guys need to get rid of this guy. Seriously. The hypocrisy of this is amazing to me. They have been flooding these border states...

We get more people a day here in Arizona than they have gotten between Washington and New York combined throughout this entire thing. More people per day here. Yeah, they act like they're from Ghostbusters. Bill Murray, dogs and cats are falling from the sky. It's been an amazing thing to watch. A couple of busloads show up and they freak out. I'm sorry. Stick it where the sun don't shine, you Democrats. They are two completely incompetently managed states.

Oh, beyond incompetent managed. They are bad cities to live in at this point, which is why everyone is fleeing. And then you see something like this and you know they have no convictions. They have no strength of their own convictions. This is embarrassing. And every voter in those towns should if you believe in him in open borders, if you're a Democrat who buys into this, then you should throw them out for betraying you.

And if you believe in actually having a border, you should throw them out for not having a spine in the first place. Sam's fired up. I'm fired up. I'm a little feisty on this, folks. Thanks for joining us today. We hope you have a fantastic weekend and we'll talk to you next week. The political field is all about reputation. So don't let someone squash yours online. Secure your name and political future with a yourname.vote web address from godaddy.com. Your political career depends on it.