Rodney Glassman on Fighting Government Overreach at All Levels 58:03

Welcome to Broken Potholes. I'm your host, Chuck Warren, today. And I am with the irrepressible Kylie Kipper in studio talking to our guest today, Rodney Glassman. He is running for Attorney General of Arizona.

He is a private attorney at the law firm Buse and Gilbert McGruder. He is a major in the Air Force JAG Corps. He's a graduate at the University of Arizona College of Law, and he passed the bar in 2009, which is a good thing if you want to be the attorney general. And he is a great individual, and we're so happy he could fit us in his schedule to join us today. Welcome, Rodney, to the show. Thanks for having me, Chuck.

Ronnie, let's start off with something. You recently, there is quite the controversy in the Scottsdale School District. And you have proposed something, a division for the Attorney General's office if you're elected, giving parents certain rights. Would you care to explain what you're looking at with that? Thanks for that question, Chuck. As you know, and as your listeners know,

There's been a lot in the news lately about government overreach when it comes to our school districts. My wife and I have two daughters, age 11 and 9. And as Attorney General, I know my job will be to protect you from the government, and that includes from our school districts. It's not just about protecting you from the federal government and Joe Biden and Kamala Harris and

It's a scary day because we're actually recording this today on the day that Camilla Harris is the president of the United States. So that's a terrible thought. But it's also about protecting you from your state government when the governor decides to shut down businesses, from the city government when you have a city mayor who wants to defund the police, but also our schools. And I'm an advocate and will be an advocate for families and parents, not only when it comes to school choice, but when it comes to following the law.

And as you may know, recently the state legislature passed Senate Bill 1487, which is a piece of legislation that provides the opportunity and the ability for the attorney general to cut off state shared revenue when a municipality is violating state law. Unfortunately, there was a carve out for the school districts.

And now we have a situation where school districts across the state are mandating masks. They're potentially mandating vaccines in the city of Scottsdale. There was a secret dossier put together by one of the school board members. It's just it's unconscionable and it's also illegal. And that's why driving home new legislation to expand SB 1487 to include school districts is critical so that the attorney general can protect

Arizonans from the government. I've also proposed a new office, a new office in the Attorney General's office. As you know, the Attorney General is the place that a citizen can go for consumer fraud.

It's a place that citizens can go on a number of different issues, elder abuse, civil rights, but we need to have an office for parents. And so I proposed PEA, the Parental Education Advocacy Office, so that parents, parents, when they feel that a school district is overreaching, they can contact their attorney general and I can step in to protect them.

Why was the school district carved out of that initial legislation? Do you know? You know, Chuck, I do not know that answer. So is there anything right now that the AG can do to –

about this situation that's happening in Scottsdale School District? Or does he just have no say in anything? The Attorney General has the ability to step into any situation that they want to. And that's one of the most important things about this office and having someone who is a fighter in this office. You know, as Chuck shared in that very generous introduction, I am an Air Force prosecutor. You know, I've prosecuted drug dealers and financial crimes and protected victims of sexual assault. I run the legal office.

Now, when I go out to Luke Air Force Base or my assigned base in West Texas, working with all the other paralegals and all the other JAGs serving the general or wing commander, whoever it is that it's going to be running that base. But we need someone also who's going to step in and pick up on whatever issue that there is, because the attorney general has immediate standing to protect the citizens of the state of Arizona.

And so as attorney general, when things like this are happening, I will step in. I will open an investigation, a civil investigation. I will get that information. I will root out how this is happening, what's happening, what laws are being violated. And that's something that I would do. And I'm proud to have the support of a mutual friend of ours, Chuck, Phoenix Councilman Sal DeCiccio. And when he and I first visited about the VAG's race and my desire to protect Arizonans,

He pointed out this is the perfect job because we need an attorney general that's relentless, that's persistent, that's aggressive. Because, Kylie, your question's right on. The attorney general can step in and should be stepping in to advocate for parents and protecting kids. Oh, that's fantastic. Let's talk about an issue that everybody in Arizona wants to talk about and probably every Republican in every primary, immigration.

Arizona is a border state. It doesn't matter how the press claims it or describes it, we have a crisis at the border. What can Arizona's Attorney General do and what would you do that fits within your parameter responsibilities to help alleviate this problem?

Well, Chuck, thank you for that. It is not just immigration and securing our border isn't just a crisis. Down in Yuma, where I was just a few weeks ago, I actually had a really neat opportunity. I don't know if you saw the Marine in the middle of the night that stopped the convenience store robbery with his bare hands. Well, Dana Perino on Fox News had made a comment, someone needs to take that guy a beer.

And so I was very fortunate with my campaign team. We reached out, tracked down the Marine and his family, and I had the chance to go down there and even have lunch with his daughter, Olive, who's six months old. And we were chatting about that. And I said, you know, I said, that was quick thinking for a Marine. And he said, sir, I have to be honest. I was thinking like a Marine. I wasn't thinking.

And so a good man, but spending some time on the border. But the reality is this is not just a border crisis. This is an Arizona crisis, Chuck. As you know, illegals are coming here. They're taxing our schools. They're taxing our health services. They're taxing our nonprofits. And we need to make sure that we are enforcing the laws on the books and that we're driving new laws.

that make Arizona not the kind of place that should be a thoroughfare. Just in Yuma alone, there were more people that crossed the Yuma sector alone than there are residents of Yuma during just a few month period. It's a disaster down there, but it's a disaster across our state. And it goes back to protecting us from the government because when I was in law school in the mid 2000s, if you came here illegally,

We had many more. It was under Bush. We had many more federal judges, immigration judges along the border. And you were incarcerated.

You're incarcerated if you came here illegally. Now you come here illegally and Joe Biden and Kamala Harris rent you a hotel room in Scottsdale or a hotel room in Tucson. And that's not okay. So as the attorney general, the first thing that I'm going to do is make sure that we're enforcing the laws on the books. But it's not just about that. It needs to be an advocate, a statewide advocate for finishing the wall.

Because if you look on my website, Chuck, RodneyGlassman.com, one of the things that I focus on is the true fact that Biden and Harris administration have just been unraveling the progress that President Trump made when it came to securing our border. They're unraveling it. We need to make sure that we have an attorney general when it comes to fighting illegal immigration.

That stands with public safety, that stands with our police officers. Right now, we're in a state where they're trying to unravel qualified immunity, where they're trying to defund the police. And our police officers need to know that they can enforce the law, that they can make sure that they're rooting out people that shouldn't be here, that are here illegally. And when it comes to that, that means that we need to, the attorney general needs to work with the state legislature to make sure that we are passing Arizona laws that we can enforce, that focus on incarceration.

that focus on then deporting, getting people out of this country that come here illegally. And if that means that as attorney general, I also need to do some bill collecting because we're going to send that bill to Washington, D.C., then as attorney general, that is something that I can do. I can go after the federal government, make sure that they're paying so that it's not our local municipalities. And Chuck, as attorney general, and Kylie, as attorney general,

I know that I'll be able to work with the legislature to pass those kinds of laws because my candidacy is supported by President Karen Fann, the president of the Senate, who has shown great leadership, as well as the majority leader of the state House, Ben Toma. And it's critical that the attorney general has a great working relationship with the legislators, even though I'm running to be

your attorney, the attorney for the citizens of Arizona. I'm not running to be the attorney for the governor, not for the state legislature. I'm running to be your attorney. One of the keys is to have an attorney that's not only hard-hitting and aggressive and relentless, but also someone that knows how to propose solutions like our parent education advocacy when it comes to schools and like legislation at the state legislature that's going to allow for incarceration for those that are here illegally and making sure that we're enforcing the laws of the state.

Do the laws not get enforced now that we have on the books? Is that a problem with this? Chuck, so long as we are living...

In cities and so long as our police officers across Arizona are being challenged by the Department of Justice with pattern of practice investigations or being challenged by their local elected officials, you know, saying that they shouldn't do their jobs. It's going to be difficult for our public safety to get out there for police officers to be doing their jobs the way that they should be. And I think we should be unabashedly and I am unabashedly as a candidate for attorney general and as a businessman and as an attorney general.

supportive of our police. And I think that we could be doing better. There are already laws on the books in Arizona. Then in order to register to vote, you need two valid forms of ID. That can be enforced by the attorney general. There are already laws on the books that governmental agencies should not be using and are not allowed to use tax dollars to print and promote anything in a language other than English.

unless it's for health and safety. That is another law that can be enforced by the attorney general. There are many, many miles of Arizona border that touch up against Mexico, state land where trespassing can be enforced by the attorney general. And so, yes, Chuck, it's not just about advocating for new laws focused on incarceration and making sure that our cities and hospitals and school districts aren't being taxed

by all these illegals that are coming in and not stopping at the border, but coming across Arizona. Immigration is something that's an issue and fighting illegal immigration is something that I hear about when up in Coconino County, up in Flagstaff, when in Yavapai, all across the state. This issue doesn't just stop at the border and we need to keep working hard. And as Attorney General, I will be the fighter that fights to secure the border, that fights to complete the wall and that fights to restore the border

the programs and policies and agenda that President Trump put in place during his four years as president when it comes to fighting illegal immigration. That's awesome. Thank you, Rodney. We're about to go to break. We're here with Rodney Glassman, candidate for attorney general. You can follow him at RodneyGlassman.com. And we will be right back after the break with Broken Potholes.

It's the new year and time for a new you. You've thought about running for political office but don't know where to start. Before you start any planning, you need to secure your name online with a yourname.vote web domain. This means your constituents will know they are learning about the real you when they surf the web. Secure your domain from godaddy.com today.

Welcome back to Broken Potholes. I'm your host, Chuck Horne, with the irrepressible Kylie Kipper. Today, we are honored to join us, Rodney Glassman. He's running for Attorney General for the state of Arizona. He's a graduate of the University of Arizona Law School. He's been an attorney for many years, passed the bar in 2009. He is also a major in the Air Force JAG. Rodney, welcome back. Appreciate having you today. Thanks, Chuck. Thank you.

So, one thing I was interested during COVID is you have the state legislature or Ducey hand out some executive order or the legislature pass some legislation. And the mayors basically gave them the colt's shoulder and sort of stiffed arm down the neck.

what they were doing. So does, you know, and this is a hard one for me and I'm not an attorney. You know, it seems like a federalism issue that government closest is the best to represent us. But if you're attorney general and we have a situation where the governor or the legislature passed some legislation and the mayor of Phoenix, the mayor of Tucson just decided to ignore it and to violate that state law, what will be your response to that? What can you do?

Well, Chuck, thank you for that question. As Attorney General, I know my job is to protect you from the government, not just the federal government and the overreach from the Biden-Harris administration, but also the state government. We live in a time where recently governors across the country were telling businesses

that they had to shut down, as cities as you were talking about, passing their own laws, deciding what was important, changing election rules, school districts now doing all kinds of interesting things, terrible things. And the reality is the attorney general is not the attorney for the governor, not the attorney for the state legislature. I'm running to be your attorney, attorney for the citizens to fight and protect citizens.

And this is something that is not only in my view, but something that's been reinforced by the state legislature with the passage of SB 1487, which is legislation that provides the ability for the attorney general who's supposed to protect you from the government to step in.

when municipalities, just like you shared, are violating state law. It provides for the attorney general to write a legal opinion and then for state shared revenue, as it's sometimes called the mother's milk, to be cut off from that governmental agency that's violating state law. And that's why as attorney general, we have to have someone who's a fighter. We have to have someone with a background. My background, as you shared, Chuck,

Chuck, you know, I'm an Air Force JAG prosecutor. I've prosecuted drug dealers and financial crimes and protected victims of sexual assault. But I also, when I go out to the Air Force base, I run the legal office. So I work with the brigadier general or the wing commander at the base, the colonel, in applying the laws, whether it's the Uniform Code of Military Justice or

which governs 24/7/365 the active duty members and making sure that they're following the rules or following the directions of the Department of Defense, the Air Force instructions when it comes to things like procurement, when it comes to hiring, working and doing legal reviews for the inspector general who has oversight when things like waste, fraud and abuse

are happening. And that's one of the key roles of the AG is to step in there when they see wrongdoing. When I see wrongdoing, step in there with my team of 425 attorneys, 800 support staff,

to protect the tax dollars, to fight waste, fraud, and abuse, and to fight government overreach, not just government overreach at the federal level, but it could be the state level, it could be the municipality, and it could be the school district. And so that's one of the things that I will do is make sure that I'm fighting no more shutdowns, no more mandates, no more government orders. And that's the AG's job to do that.

So, this is a two-part question. One, as a prosecutor, you have prosecuted drug charges, sexual assault, etc. What are the most difficult cases as a prosecutor to prosecute? And then two, what are the most difficult cases as a prosecutor to prosecute?

How will your management skills, since you manage a JAGS out at the Luke Air Force Base, how will that translate to managing the agent's office? Well, Chuck, in a nutshell, leading, managing, setting the tone for the attorneys in the office is critical. And one of the strengths that I bring to this race is that I have managed attorneys. I believe I'm the only attorney

candidate for Attorney General that has ran a law office.

that has been in charge of all the paralegals, all the attorneys, setting the tone, providing feedback, giving guidance, setting priorities. And that's critical because that's a critical part of the attorney general's job. We talk about prosecuting. And one of the things that's interesting, most voters may not be aware, the attorney general is not the chief prosecutor for the state of Arizona.

Actually, the 15 counties each have a chief prosecutor, an elected official, their county attorney. In Maricopa County, it's Alistair Adele. Up in Yavapai County, it's my dear friend Sheila Polk. They are the chief prosecutors in each of the jurisdictions. The prosecutorial role of the AG's office is actually very limited in scope. While there's 425 attorneys, about 10%.

10 to 15% of what the AG's office does is prosecution. It's white collar crime, it's Medicare fraud, and it's the death penalty phase

of capital punishment. The other 90%, Chuck, is exactly the same and very analogous to the kind of work that we do out at the Air Force bases outside of the court martial and prosecutorial and military justice process. It's fighting waste, fraud, and abuse. It's understanding procurement. With the AG, it's providing all the legal services for almost every department in the state of Arizona, the Registrar of Contractors, the Department of Real Estate, the State Land Commission,

Chuck, we live right now in a state where the superintendent of schools is vocally against school choice. I'm a parent, and we have a family that lives school choice. My wife's on a charter school board. Our 11-year-old and our 9-year-old are currently in private school. We live school choice, and we have a superintendent that is out there advocating against school choice. Well, the superintendent and the Department of Education don't have their own attorneys.

If you ask to see their business card, it's an assistant attorney general. You look at if you have a family that has an issue with one of their local school districts, they fill out an application. It goes to the Department of Education and then the legal review by an assistant attorney general. So managing, leading, driving and being solution based. And that's why being a private sector attorney with clients that sign engagement letters and pick up the phone and hire me.

because they know I'm good at what I do and find solutions is exactly the relevant experience that we need in our next attorney general. And those are the, those are the relevant experiences that I'll be bringing to Arizonans as I work to protect them from the government as their next attorney general. We're about to go to break in just a couple of minutes, but do you work closely with, um, or as attorney general, will you work closely with all the counties and does the current attorney general do that right now? Uh,

What I can tell you is that as Attorney General, I will be working with all of the different public safety agencies, all of the municipalities across the state. In fact, it's fun because President Karen Fann, who's going to be speaking at an event for me,

later in December. She was the mayor of Chino Valley back when I was on the Tucson City Council. So we bring that municipal experience and happy to share. I've been a town manager. I've been a city councilman. I understand local government. And one of my roles as attorney general will be to root out waste, fraud, and abuse at all different levels of government with the largest fraud unit and the largest investigative unit in the state. And that's why I'm excited about serving the people and the citizens of Arizona.

Great. Thank you. Broken Potholes will be right back. It's the new year and time for the new you. You've thought about running for political office but don't know where to start. Before you start any planning, you need to secure your name online with a yourname.vote web domain. This means your constituents will know they are learning about the real you when they surf the web. Secure your domain from godaddy.com today. Free word.

Welcome back to Broken Potholes. I'm your host, Chuck Warren, with my co-host, Kylie Kipper. Today we have Rodney Glassman. He's running for Attorney General of Arizona. You can find him at RodneyGlassman.com. He's always looking for volunteers as well. Rodney, you've had a wonderful career. It has spanned private business, serving in the military.

You've served on the city council. My question for you is, has there been a failure you've had in your experiences? And what did you learn from that failure, and how did you implement those lessons into your life now? Chuck, that's a great question. I appreciate it. And, you know, with all candor, probably looking back,

The biggest failure or challenge, I would say, in my professional career actually goes all the way back to my desire while in law school to serve and join the Air Force. I went in Tucson at the U of A. I played for the Davis-Mothan Air Force Base ice hockey team. I was a member of the DM-50, which was the business group up in Phoenix. We have the equivalent of the Fighter Country Partnership.

I had done volunteer work for the Air Force Base, and I knew that when I completed law school, joining the JAG Corps was something that I was very interested in doing. I have a family background of service in Eagle Scout, all that. When I got my bar results, I was excited to go in and join and found out that I was too heavy because in law school, I had lost focus on taking care of myself.

I worked full time in order to pay for school and all of that, and had ballooned up to 295 pounds. And when I went in to go for my interview, I was sitting with a really neat lieutenant colonel, and she said, Ronnie, how much do you weigh and how tall are you? And I said, 295 and 6'6". And she looked at me and she said, well, you have two choices. You can either grow four inches or you need to lose 60 pounds.

And she then, you know, proceeded to kind of give me one of those, but don't feel bad if you can't do it because it's a difficult thing to do. And that was the end of it. And I left and it, I had failed myself.

I'd failed myself because I had a goal that I wanted to achieve, which was to serve alongside many of my friends that were down there in the community and wasn't able to do that. And so the lesson that I learned, Chuck, is I put my nose to the grindstone and over the next six months lost 10 pounds per month.

for six months to where I could qualify because to get into the military, there was an abdominal circumference requirement along with everything else. And so I got down to my mid-230s, was able to pass the test. It was already past the bar and received my commission into the Air Force. And it was a good lesson for me to remember to take care of myself, my health,

And now at the age of 43, Chuck, it's the reason why I'm running for attorney general because I have had a wonderful career building a private law practice. I've been serving in the military. I'm involved in the community, as you know, on the boards of nonprofits like the Honor Health Foundation and the Arizona Bar Foundation. And we write children's books. We do all kinds of great things. But at the end of the day, we've got to take care of our family. And part of taking care of our family is taking care of Arizonans.

and protecting us from the government. Because I can have twice as many law clients. I can do twice as much Air Force duty. But when my wife or daughters go to call 911, we've got a mayor and council right now that wants a counselor to come

instead of a police officer. We've got a teacher's union that wants to double our state income taxes. We have governors across the country that literally shut down gyms. And that rings close to me, especially because of the weight struggle that I had and the fact that I was able to do that. But it made me feel good. Years later, I saw a PowerPoint presentation in one of the Air Force communities, and they were using me as the poster child for service and persistence and

and relentlessness because I finally put the fork down and realized that if I wanted to serve our country, I needed to focus on my health first. And so that was my greatest failure was getting stuck in a position where I wanted to do something and wasn't able to. And it was something that I overcame and a great lesson that I tried always instill in others, which is be prepared to serve and lean forward. And that's why I'm running for attorney general, where I know my job will be to protect all of us from the government. And I really appreciate you having me here today.

Really quick. Go ahead. Can you let people know where they can follow you on Twitter, social media? Yeah, Kylie, thanks a ton. My website is RodneyGlassman.com. It's RodneyGlassman.com. I'd ask everyone to check it out. We get emails there. We've got a great introduction video. I actually got super engaged in the Republican Party on June 12th.

16th, 2015, the day that President Trump announced his candidacy. And we need to fight. We need to have a fighter. We need to have someone who's focused on protecting us from the government. That's why I'm running for attorney general to be your attorney, the citizen's attorney. And I'd love to earn your vote. Thank you, Rodney, for joining us today. We're going to go to break, but we'll be right back.

The 2020 political field was intense, so don't get left behind in 2021. If you're running for political office, the first thing on your to-do list needs to be securing your name on the web with a yourname.vote web domain from godaddy.com. Get yours now. Welcome to Broken Potholes. For today's show, our second guest is David Drucker. We are lucky to have him. He's a senior correspondent for the Washington Examiner.

He has just written a new book called In Trump's Shadow, The Battle for 2024 and the Future of the GOP. You can also find him, he has a very active Twitter account, at David M. Drucker, D-R-U-C-K-E-R. So follow him because he'll keep you up to date on what's going on in the crazy world of D.C. David, thanks for joining the show. Yeah, great to be here. Thanks, guys.

So what inspired you to write this book? It's early. It's not even 2022 yet, but you said, darn it, let's talk about 2024. Yeah, you know, it wouldn't have occurred to me to look this far ahead just on its own. Like, I'm sort of normal.

And I would think maybe we should get through 2020 before we get to 2024. Or maybe we should get through 2022 before we get to 2024. But, you know, in 2019 in particular, and this was, you know,

more than a year before President Trump was on the ballot in November of 2020, I had been writing stories about Republicans that were making very clear moves to prepare for the 2024 Republican presidential primary. And I wrote one about one potential candidate, and I wrote another about another potential candidate.

By the time I got to about a handful, and then there were others written by competitors of mine, and very good stories, it occurred to me that this might be a very interesting story to tell in a book about it. The shadow campaign for the Republican nomination for president in 2024 going on long before we even knew whether President Trump was going to win or lose in his bid for a second term.

And so I kind of cobbled all of this together, worked on it with my agent, and there was a lot of interest in the story. And then it, from there, really developed into a story about President Trump's impact on the Republican Party and what that meant for 2024 and the future of the party. And, of course, this was long before we would have imagined Trump running in 2020.

But even if Trump does run in 2024, but especially if he doesn't, what I learned in reporting in Trump's shadow is that he looms really over the party and the candidate thinking of running. And he represents a sort of generational break with the Reagan era of Republican politics. And what people will see in 2024 is,

Is candidates campaigning and competing amongst each other to convince Republican voters they are the rightful heir to the Trump legacy and that they will do for Republicans what so many of them feel from a positive standpoint that Trump did for them? Well, let me ask you this question, David. What do you think is a characteristic for Trump?

that future presidential nominees, even for Congress and Senate, will have to have. My opinion is, and I was talking to a liberal friend the other day, that you're not going to see Republicans in the future

but to the press or pressure. That's one thing Trump seemed to do, that he just did not buckle. He just stood his ground. And when you talk to activists, as Kylie and I do quite a bit, that is what they like. They like that he just stood up to what they feel is this elitist bullies that run DC and New York. What are your thoughts on that?

Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head there. You know, when I interviewed Trump for In Trump's Shadow, and I sat down with him at Bar-a-Lago, I asked him what did he think his impact on the party was. And, you know, there were a number of things he could have said. He could have talked about what he did from a domestic or foreign policy standpoint. He could have talked about altering the party's position, generally speaking, on trade or China or immigration in some regards.

But what he said is that he, and this is almost a verbatim quote, and it's in the book, he said, I taught them how to fight. And in order to be successful in a Republican primary in 24, and we're already seeing this play out in 2022, you've got a very competitive Senate primary there in Arizona. There's another one going on in Ohio, and we have in other states. We're seeing this.

The best way you can win the support of Republican primary voters is to find a way to prove to them in an authentic way that you are a fighter. And in my reporting for In Trump's Shadow, not only did Trump confirm to me in our interview that that's what he thinks is,

the party wants, at least at its base. I talked to strategists across the spectrum, whether they were pro-Trump or anti-Trump in the establishment wing or the MAGA wing, and they all told me that, yeah, you have to be right on the issues like gun rights and abortion and all of that.

But you have to, if you're going to win, prove to a Republican primary voter that you're going to be a fighter. They have to believe that about you. And you can't do it by imitating Trump. Everybody seemed to agree. They said one of the president's strengths was that voters believed that he was authentically himself. And not every Republican who will run for president in 24 can be a Trump because their personality is different. Their backgrounds are different.

But they're going to have to find a way in their own way that voters believe is authentic to communicate, that they will fight, that they won't, as you said, that they won't buckle. That's what Trump believes his biggest impact on the party was above everything else he did. And that's what Republicans working in the trenches of campaigns today believe is necessary to be successful in a 24th primary.

Well, my personal opinion, and you tell me if you think this is true or not, I don't think we would have a Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh if we had had another Republican president. Well, that may be true, but even if I, for various reasons, quibbled about that, I wouldn't quibble about that either.

because of Trump. And I think you're right in that Trump simply didn't back down or didn't reconsider positions in a way that a typical politician would based on outside pressure. Right, so there were times when Trump, throughout his presidency, would make minor course corrections or just decide not to do something.

So he wasn't completely immune to pressure or to being convinced by top lieutenants that he should do things differently than he had planned. But when it comes to public pressure from Democrats or the media or concerned Republicans,

It is very true and accurate to say that he simply just did not, in some sense, he thrived on that pressure and wasn't likely to back down and change course because of it the way other politicians would.

We're with David Drucker. He is the author of In Trump's Shadow: The Battle for 2024 and the Future of the GOP. You can find this at Amazon, Barnes & Noble. Go buy it. It's a great book. He's a senior correspondent for The Washington Examiner. As you wrote this great book, what was your biggest surprise? I'm sorry, repeat the question.

As you wrote this book and you did research and you did the interviews, what was your biggest surprise? What is something that just surprised you about? Yeah, that is a great question. And yeah. And, you know, one of the biggest things that surprised me was how active,

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo was in preparing for 2024, and as it turns out, how much political skill he possesses. It's very early, and these primaries can be so difficult and so unpredictable. Who knows how he might do if he runs? But what I learned about Mike Pompeo is that he was busy gathering relationships and contacts and traveling the country

as a Secretary of State to make his presence felt domestically in a way that initially was going unnoticed.

But he was probably more active in laying the groundwork for a future bid, or he was as active in laying the groundwork for a future bid as anybody that I reported on for Interim Shadow. But the other thing, and to me this is really interesting, you know, if you followed Secretary Pompeo in the national media or watched him on television,

He could be very much like you can imagine a soldier being. You know, he graduated number one in his class at West Point, and he was an army captain. He could be very gruff. He could be very one-note. He could be very formal. And maybe you didn't see much more of him. He didn't let too much of himself out personally. But as I started researching and following him for the book...

I would see him in front of groups, and this was during COVID, so I had to do my research using film. I would see him in front of groups, be self-deprecating, show flashes of charisma. He was able to hold a room. He would talk about his background and his personal upbringing in a way he didn't do in Washington. And I started to see a politician with very good retail skills, but also a politician who,

who can fill up a room and hold people's attention and get them engaged with him and about him. And I don't think that's something people think about when they think about Mike Pompeo. Look, there are candidates that a lot of Republicans are not sure if they like. Let's say Marco Rubio, who they know is charismatic, who they know can deliver a speech that has everybody connected emotionally. But Mike Pompeo has some of those same skills. He's different about it, but that to me was really surprising.

It's not something you can teach, is it? I mean, you can learn some skills, but that charisma, that ability to hold people is not really something you can teach.

No, it's not. And, you know, in the business you're in and the business I'm in, some of these things, it's like a craft, and politics is like a craft. Some of it depends on your determination, your love of what you're doing, but just some innate ability to get the job done and to constantly hone it and...

You know, there are politicians that have been successful. We've seen them that don't have personal skills necessarily, but they find other ways to get it done. But it sure helps. And, you know, in politics, at least in the beginning, voters, in a sense, want to fall in love.

They want to be inspired. They want this sense of leadership that really is an emotional feeling. Obviously, the issues have to be in place. You and I just finished talking about some of the other aspects in a leader that Republicans are going to want in 2024, that they want even now in 2020, with 2022 approaching. But some of the ways you grab people and hold onto them, particularly in a competitive, crowded primary, is

is to have the intangible. And there are a number of them that may have that. Mike Pompeo is the one that surprised me. Hi, David. This is Kylie. What do you think are a few main takeaways Republican candidates can take away from Youngkin's win? And what did he do to unite the never-Trumpers and the MAGA-Trumpers?

Yeah, really good question. And look, I think there are a number of things that Republicans should take away from Glenn Youngkin's win in Virginia. One, he focused on what voters cared about the most. This is something politicians forget sometimes because a lot of them do go into politics because they have their own particular concern. They want to fix this particular problem. But

But in order to win a campaign, you have to focus on the problem that voters care about in that moment. The other thing that made Glenn Youngkin successful, and you just alluded to this,

he had a really strong turnout from all wings of the Republican Party. So not only did he recover ground for the GOP in the suburbs that Donald Trump had lost, not only did he do well with swing voters and independents where the former president had trouble, but he had a robust turnout from the MAGA wing in those rural and exurban areas, the kind of voters that only turn out for Trump. They showed up for Yunkin. It was putting all

all facets of the Republican coalition, the possible Republican coalition together that enabled Glenn Youngkin to win in a plus 10 Biden state. We have just a minute before we go to break. But when we come back, we're listening to David Drucker. We'll be back on the podcast only segment. So join us. You can follow him on Twitter at David M. Drucker. Are there any other ways for people to follow you, David?

They can find me at WashingtonExaminer.com and In Trump's Shadow is available at Amazon or wherever people prefer to buy their books. Perfect. Purchase In Trump's Shadow and we'll be right back with the podcast only segment. I see a rickshaw and I want it in no colors anymore. I want them to turn. Address the events.

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Welcome back to Broken Potholes. I am your host, Chuck Warren, with the irrepressible Kylie Kipper. Today, we are lucky, lucky to have on our show David Drucker. He is the author in Trump's Shadow, The Battle for 2024 and the Future of the GOP. He's also a senior correspondent for the Washington Examiner. Take the time, read what he puts out. He's a great writer. He won't put you to sleep, and you'll learn a lot today.

So, David, probably the more important question as basketball seasons begin, does UCLA make the Final Four again? I'm afraid to hope.

But this team, as a UCLA diehard, it's been a really tough time in both basketball and football over the past 20 years. We've had a few moments in basketball, and it looks like we're having another moment again. Football continues to be a disaster. If anybody wants to take Chip Kelly off our hands, I'm offering him up. I didn't ask the Morgan Center how they feel about this, but I just, please, take the man. Take him. Take him.

I've had enough. But, you know, Coach Cronin, he surprised me. I wasn't that happy with the hiring process for Mick Cronin because it just didn't feel like it was somebody that UCLA really wanted that bad. It felt like it was somebody they fell into, and the process alone bothered me. But,

I love his attitude. I like the way his teams are playing. So we have a long season. Everybody's gunning for UCLA because they're ranked number two in the nation. They've got a big game against Gonzaga on Monday, Monday or Tuesday of this upcoming week. But I'm hopeful, and we'll see what happens. So one thing that's interesting to me about America is that we are such a big country and are so diverse. People don't seem to get that. What have you found to be the difference between people on the West Coast and the East Coast?

Well, people on the East Coast are generally friendlier than people on the West Coast. And I say this as a native Los Angelino. I mean, I'm from California originally. I grew up in L.A. I spent most of my... I mean, I didn't leave Los Angeles until I was in my early 30s. And then I went to Sacramento for another couple years.

I love California. I love Los Angeles. I love the West Coast. But, you know, people are always very suspicious of you whenever you start talking to them or ask them for something. I've found generally on the East Coast, New York in particular, but Washington as well, people just...

Or it's a little bit easier to connect with strangers. They're a little friendlier. They will be unfriendly more readily if they don't want to be friendly to you, but at least you know where they're coming from. So I feel like socially it's a much...

The East Coast is a much easier place within which to integrate yourself. But hey, I've still got great friends on the West Coast. I've got family out there. So they're the exception. They're all great. Do you enjoy living on the East Coast more than you did on the West Coast? Which one do you like better? Well, it's not... Look, I hate the summer out here because I hate humidity.

I also hate really oppressive dry heat, which you guys know something about. But I do love the seasons, and I like the fact that I've created a lifestyle out here where we only need one car. I don't have to drive it every day. We fill up with gas once a month, and I can almost walk anywhere I need to be. That includes for work or fun. So I kind of like this.

Tell us a little bit more about your background and how you became an author. Well, look, I used to run a family business and spent a lot of time in sales and marketing when I was in my 20s. And when I finally figured out what I was doing and how to be good at it, I decided I didn't want to do it for the next 40 years. So I decided I would

become a writer for a living, and then when I realized I wanted to have a place to go every day and have a real job, I decided I would write about politics because I'd always been a political junkie, listened to talk radio, and I liked politics. So that's how I fell into this. Ended up in Sacramento when Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger was first elected.

And the goal was to come to Washington. I came to Washington in 2005. And, you know, especially focusing on Republican politics and conservatives over the past 20 years, I think it was sort of inevitable that I would write a book about the Republican Party, about the conservative movement. I just, I think for years, was looking for the right one, for something different, for something...

and fit and you know this uh this idea sort of fell into my lap but i you know it was only because of what i had been reporting on a daily basis but i started to put two and two together all right steve um we're with david drucker he has written the book in trump's shadow the battle of 2024 and the future of the gop you can buy it on amazon barnes and noble wherever you can pick up a book go buy it senior correspondent for washington examiner

What is something, David, as you've spent decades now doing this, what is something about elected officials and politicians that people don't realize about them? I mean, I run into people all the time and I tell them because they always say, oh, they're just horrible. They're scummy, blah, blah, blah. And I just say, no, they all go in with really good intentions. Most of them are there for reasons that they want to make a difference. What is your view on it?

Yeah, that's kind of the problem, actually. Most voters I talk to, and this happens when I talk to family members on the right and the left, and I have various parts of my family, I get all kinds. They always think the problem is that they're all a bunch of liars, and if we could just get honest politicians who would do the right thing and not care about politics, then everything would be fixed.

And I always tell them, that's your problem, because most of the politicians in Washington came here because they wanted to make the country better, and they all think they're doing the right thing, and most of them are not crooks. And they always look at me with this weird look on their face, like I've got to be out of my mind.

But, you know, this is only something I've discovered by becoming a political reporter and spending a lot of time with lawmakers. This includes at the State House in Sacramento, in California, and here in Washington. Most of them come here because they love the United States of America, left and right, and they think what they're doing is going to make it better for everybody. Now, are there some power-hungry politicians? Yes. Are there some crooks? Yes.

But, you know, you can find that at your place of business, too. There's some crooks and there are some people that just want to get ahead for its own sake. But most of the Democrats and Republicans I cover think they're doing the right thing and they're not on the take. And, you know, for those politicians that then leave public service and go on to make a lot of money, I mean, I understand that that

rubs a lot of people the wrong way and i understand why and it's totally justified but usually in order to be that kind of politician that can you know quote unquote cash out you've got to spend a long time uh... in public service not relatively speaking not making the most money it works really hard also another thing that gets people to look at me funny and so to the extent that they can cash out it

It's because there is so much advocacy surrounding Washington because of so much that Washington does that people are willing to pay. And that includes regular people who send money to various advocacy groups to advocate on behalf of labor unions and health care and businesses and religious freedom. And money goes somewhere.

In a moment of honesty here, is there anybody in D.C. really surprised how lackluster Vice President Kamala Harris has been? Is anybody really surprised by this? No, I don't think people are surprised. I think...

You know, myself included as a reporter and an analyst wondered if she would rise to the occasion or rise to the position because of the opportunity it affords her. But look, if you covered... You know, my read on Vice President Harris from covering her campaign was that she has a lot of the intangible qualities that can make for great candidates and great leaders. But if you followed her campaign...

She was not a very good politician. You were never quite sure what she believed, why she believed it, or why she was running. Now, she happened to have been, I thought, a great pick for Joe Biden in this regard. He was never going to have to worry about her contradicting him or trying to make an end run around him.

very easy politician to partner with because she would adopt whatever agenda she felt was necessary in order to satisfy the voters. And the best way to do that, as Joe Biden's running mate, was to adopt his agenda.

But, you know, there are certain things that she was always missing operationally and as a politician that are not surprising to me when we look at some of the difficulties that she has had, where I think just in some ways just missed opportunities, right? I mean, you can have political differences. Obviously, Republicans aren't going to like Kamala Harris, the vice president, almost no matter what she does. But I think there are things that she could be doing

that would help her build a platform to run for president herself in a way that would send a message throughout the Democratic Party that she is their best heir apparent to President Biden. And so far, she's not doing that. As we get ready to wrap up here, David, if we went in all this, you and I and Kylie headed to Vegas, who would you tell people are upcoming candidates

elected officials to watch for over the next 10 years on the Republican and Democrat side? People you've come across and said, this person has something about them that they can develop, that this could be a person that helps influence the country in a certain way. Well, that's a good question. That's a little bit more difficult to answer than

particularly in the context of a 2022 midterm election, only because some of them may not survive. You know, on the... On the... On the side...

Let me start on the Democratic side just because I have somebody in mind, even though I don't know that he's going to survive the 2022 midterm elections. So I'll start with his answer just because it comes to mind quicker. In suburban Richmond, Congresswoman Abigail Spanberger, I think, is a very good politician. She is basically governed or voted as a, what I would say, center-left. Not necessarily centrist, although she gets that label, but center-left. Okay.

She's a former clandestine officer in the Central Intelligence Agency. She is a very good communicator. She won in a very difficult suburban district and then won re-election in a suburban district. She has a lot of the tools for statewide and national leadership and a lot of the...

that require you to go far in politics beyond just a single House district. Her problem is going to be winning re-election in a suburban district that voted for Governor-elect Glenn Youngkin by around 10 points, maybe a little under, maybe a little over, I can't recall the figure.

But if I were a Democrat looking for the future of the party, I would look at her and some other female Democrats like her that were elected in 2018 if they can hold serve in 2022. On the Republican side, you know, a congressman that has been pretty highly thought of and has a lot of the intangibles of Dan Crenshaw out of Texas,

He's got this ability to just tell everybody what he thinks without much regard to who he rubs the wrong way. But that, again, in an era when voters are looking for authenticity and somebody that shows strong leadership skills, Dan Crenshaw happens to be one of the politicians on the right that does that very well.

Thank you, David, for joining us this week. If you're listening to this on Spotify, Apple Music, please continue to do so. Give us a like. Go follow David on Twitter at David M. Drucker. Purchase his book, In Trump's Shadows. Again, thank you, David, for joining us. We really enjoyed speaking with you.

Same here, guys. Thanks so much for having me. And thank you, Chuck, for allowing me to be your co-host this week. I'm so glad you did. You're much better than Sam. That is Sam. And we look forward to next week. Yes, we'll be talking school boards. So join us next week. Have a good weekend, guys.

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