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Hi, thanks for listening to World of Secrets. I'm Rhianna Croxford, and before we start, I wanted to let you know that this episode contains references to sex and sexual violence.
Once I turned 17 and I was graduating high school, I wanted to see the world, so I joined the Marines. You might already know the next man you're going to meet in this investigation. I felt like the Marine Corps would be the hardest and most difficult and direct route out of small-town America.
David Bradbury starred in the first season of the US reality show Below Deck, the Bravo TV series following crews aboard Superyacht. I haven't done anything like this since I was like a private. Yeah. Did you ever see any action? Did you see the movie Blood Diamond or Lord of War? Yeah, yeah. I was there.
David has lived an eventful life, though I have to confess I'd never seen Below Deck or heard of David Bradbury until I spotted his name on another itinerary I'd been handed for an event with the Abercrombie guys in 2010.
And when you first reached out to me, it was... I think I shut my computer and yelped. Like, "Ah!" When I first contacted David, he thought I might be a spy. These people seem like Bond villains or something. They've got hundreds of millions of dollars. I mean, when you reach out to me asking me to cooperate in this investigation,
I was concerned that you might be involved with them because they had so much power and money and clout. He says he was completely paranoid because of what happened when he met Mike Jeffries and Matthew Smith. I've had a lot of sleepless nights recently trying to decide how I wanted to be involved in this. David's no longer on TV these days. In fact, he now works for the US government.
He's married, settled, and is wary of digging up the past. Why do you want to be involved in this at all? Why would you talk to people about this? What about your career? What about your job? What about your friends, your family? What will people think about, you know, this? But 13 years on, David's decided to speak out. I hope that anybody that's listening to this sees me, not the mistakes I've made, but sees me as a person who was naive.
and taken advantage of by predators. I don't care anymore. I think it's the right thing to do and I think that it's time for me to be brave. From the BBC, this is World of Secrets. Season one, The Abercrombie Guys, with me, Rhianna Croxford. A BBC Radio 5 Live and BBC Panorama investigation. Episode three, The Marine. I've spent a long time getting to know David and there's much more to him than his stint on Below Deck.
He's now 37, and a lot's happened in those years. Life began for David in America's deep south. He was born in Louisiana and growing up, his family moved around a lot. Life was difficult. I'd like to think that I was a happy child, but I had an abusive stepfather, psychologically, physically at times. Pulled my arm out of my socket, you know, that sort of thing. We didn't have a great relationship, but I had my mom and she was always very protective and supportive.
David describes his childhood in such a matter-of-fact way. He doesn't get emotional, he's calm, stoic even. David tells me he and his mum eventually got away from the stepfather who had adopted him when she remarried and they moved again. They headed to a small town in Texas, meaning another new school for David. You know, for a 15-year-old boy, it's a very difficult time to make new friends.
It was very clicky and it was almost stereotypical of the cool kids, the goths, the skaters, the stoner, you know, so on and so forth. I convinced my mom to buy was a significantly overpriced pair of jeans for like first day of school set, I think. I think it was a guilt thing because we had to move, you know, in the middle of my high school year. If you didn't have Abercrombie on, you must have been a poor loser.
David's a drama club kid at heart, but he takes the shortcut to popularity by signing up to the high school football team. If you wanted to be somebody, you had to be, you know, an athlete. And so I was on the football team, probably the smallest person on the football team. But it's not something that I loved. While all that's going on, David says he's trying to figure out his sexuality, but doesn't want to stand out, so just keeps his head down.
In the early 2000s, people weren't very accepting of people that were different in general. Homophobia and racism, I think, was just a common thing in the deep South. I wasn't open at all about my sexuality in high school.
Someone that was, the gossip was that he was bisexual and I didn't speak to him once. We sat next to each other for a year and I was terrified that if I spoke to him that people would think I was gay too. I still feel guilty about that. David was looking for a way out, an escape, and made his move as soon as he could. I think I made a choice early on. I wanted to join the Marines. It took some convincing but my mother actually had to sign away the paperwork because I joined when I was 17.
I shipped off two weeks after high school. I joined the Marines because I was searching for identity. I needed to find a way to command respect. I wanted to be seen as a man, not some little gay boy.
The Marines might not seem like the obvious choice for David because back then it was still forbidden to be openly gay in the US military. I served under Don't Ask, Don't Tell. So sexuality was something that was supposed to be kept private. I would say that there was targeted harassment that I personally saw. I tried my best to fit in, but those that were a little more feminine stood out.
After basic training, David applies to be in the US Marine Embassy Guard, a battalion responsible for protecting American diplomatic operations overseas.
An early deployment was to Liberia in West Africa, a country still recovering from civil war at the time. There was random firefights that happened pretty regularly, a lot of carnage. And so there was a lot of traumatic moments, I'd say, that I still struggle with today, nightmares and that sort of thing.
Listening to him describe his time in high school and then the military, I can see a pattern emerging. A young man determined to fit in, toe the line to protect himself. When you're 18, you don't really question orders as a Marine. You follow orders. You do what you're told when you're told how you're told. David serves in the Marines for four years before deciding he's had enough. At the age of 22, he leaves, but doesn't really have a plan.
I was bouncing around like odd jobs, waiting tables, trying to figure out what was next for me. It's 2009. David's back home in the US and dating a guy who works in a local gay bar.
This guy's been doing webcam sex shows on the side and asks David if he's interested in joining him. And so he started doing these webcam shows and he was making like $500 or $600 an hour. And we were already fooling around. He's like, you know, they'll double it if we just do this together. And so at the time I was like, yeah, sure, like we're already doing this. Why not put a camera up? David says he does a few cam shows over a couple of weeks, which leads to him doing some amateur porn with other ex-military guys.
But after filming a few scenes, David quickly decides it's not really for him. And I realised this is not who I am, this is not what I want to do with my life. I want to be an actor. I want to make films. And he thinks modelling might be a way in. I got my first headshots, booked my first small gigs in the area. And there was a website that, you know, it was similar to like a, I don't
a Facebook for models and it seemed to be like also a kind of a breeding ground for people trying to prey on those young boys and girls that wanted to be actors and models. That's what David says happened to him after an entertainment exec reaches out, promising work. David says he soon finds himself in situations where people try to exploit and abuse him. He tells me one audition ends in assault.
And on another, he was propositioned by a photographer where... At one point he was like, I'd love to take your picture, but I'd also really like to taste that ass. David says the experiences begin to eat away at his self-esteem. Kind of reinforced, kind of over and over again, that this is normal. But he says he's not ready to give up on his dream just yet, telling himself that something good will surely come out of this if he just sticks at it.
So when another talent scout gets in touch about a potential job in New York, David's still hopeful that this could be his break. That intermediary, that agent said, I've got a fashion mogul that I want you to meet and I'm going to pass you along to their representation. They have an agent that works with them exclusively.
This guy, Jim. Now there's a name I've heard before. Jim wanted to meet at a coffee shop, which made me feel very safe. I'm like, oh great, finally some professionalism. And when I get to the coffee shop, I was initially felt a little disarmed because of this gentleman who's missing his nose. He had a rattlesnake patch over it. He was confident though and charismatic in a way. It was as if he had a great sense of
humor about the situation. And he addressed it pretty quickly saying, "I know the way I look." It's the same Jim, the middleman, who met Barrett Paul. I find out that he represents the CEO of Abercrombie & Pitch.
And I'm like, oh, that's great. And I start talking up Abercrombie & Fitch, how I loved that brand as a kid. It wasn't just the jeans he wore in high school, David says. Growing up, he was obsessed with the Abercrombie & Fitch Quarterly, the company's glossy catalogue filled with sexy black and white photos of semi-naked models. That was probably the closest thing to pornography that I could get my hands on at that age. Reflecting, it's a sexy coffee table book. As a kid, though, it was porn.
There was a lot of big celebrity names in there. So it seemed like this is, not only is this book full of sexy, beautiful people, but this is the foundation for celebrities' careers. After they finish their coffees, David says Jim suggests walking together to his next meeting. He has to stop by his apartment on the way and when they get there, Jim invites David in.
All the while he's talking to me about how many celebrities got their start modeling for Abercrombie & Fitch. He was talking about how beautiful I was and how he enjoyed the pictures that he'd seen but he wanted to see the real thing in person and asked if I'd take my clothes off for him. You know, for modeling purposes. And I was just like, "Well, that's pretty weird, but sure, I'll take my shirt off." And the next thing you know, he's just like, "Listen, I'm not really supposed to do this, but you're just so beautiful."
I felt like the world stopped and the record dropped and I was paralysed. And so I go along with it. David says Jim performs oral sex on him. Had you wanted that to happen? No, I didn't want him touching me. I felt like I had to, though. Why did he feel that way? I was beginning to be conditioned to believe that this was part of the process to becoming a bigger part of Hollywood.
David tells me when it's all over, Jim offers him some money. I didn't want to accept it. I was like, no, no, because I felt so, I felt like it was a criminal. I felt like I'm not taking money for sex. And it was, no, no, no, no. Your time is valuable, David. He told me that the money was for my time. I think it was really to keep me quiet. He mentioned he wasn't supposed to be doing this. And so I assumed it was, this is hush money.
I felt ashamed after this happened. I felt used. I felt stupid. After meeting Jim, I was hopeful that this was kind of a turnaround and that he was just a creepy old dude that I wouldn't have to see again, that was the gatekeeper to Abercrombie & Fitch. It wasn't long before he followed up saying, like, I sent your pictures to the guys and they want to meet you. The guys. David's talking about Mike Jeffries and his British partner, Matthew Smith.
And he says Jim has an invitation for him for an event at their home in the Hamptons. You will be compensated for any time that you spend, you know, with Abercrombie & Fitch. You know, anybody that's working as a contractor for them or as talent or a model should be paid for their time. He didn't go into great detail about what this party would be, but he did mention that, oh, he would be a great addition. We'll be back after this.
It just smashed right into the World Trade Center. It was a big, big explosion of flames. People Who Knew Me, a story about lies. You used a terrorist attack to run away from your mess and fake your own death. And love. Are you proposing to me? In the face of death. I'm Paul. I'm six weeks into chemo, and I have no eyebrows. An original drama for BBC Sounds. Yeah, something's up. Starring Rosamund Pike and Hugh Laurie. Happy death anniversary.
People Who Knew Me. Listen on BBC Sounds.
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Plus, get 15% off your first order at bowlinbranch.com. Code BUTTERY. Exclusions apply. See site for details. Hey, everyone. This is Molly and Matt, and we're the hosts of Grown Up Stuff How to Adult, a podcast from Ruby Studio and iHeart Podcasts. It's a show dedicated to helping you figure out the trickiest parts of adulting.
Like how to start planning for retirement, creating a healthy skincare routine, understanding when and how much to tip someone, and so much more. Let's learn about all of it and then some. Listen to Grown Up Stuff How to Adult on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search Grown Up Stuff. After receiving his invite to the Hamptons, David Bradbury is excited that things could finally be working out. But first, he's got to impress Mike Jeffries.
David says Jim tells him the Abercrombie boss could make his career. It was deeply reinforced that Mike Jeffries was a powerful man. All models, all decisions went through him and so that this was the fastest, most direct route to said success. What was your expectation of what that required? Judging from my past experiences and what I'd gone through with Jim,
I wasn't naive enough to think that things didn't have the possibility of getting physical. It was expressed that people would be in their underwear and having drinks and having fun and there would be loads of models there. So in my mind at the time I thought, you know, the president or CEO of Abercrombie & Fitch will be there and he'll be mingling with us and he'll pick the ones that he likes and will be in the catalog and it'll be great. I thought it would be, you know,
like a Hollywood pool party. I'd been to one or two of those.
Jim says the event is during the day and there's a strict dress code. So he tells David to go to an A&F store where something will be waiting for him. An Abercrombie & Fitch gift card, I think it had $500 preloaded up on it. I was instructed to go to their flagship store in New York City and buy a very specific uniform, essentially. Polo, jeans, flip-flops, so that I was in their preferred look when I met them.
And so it seemed to add legitimacy to it, like, "This is a great sign. They're already treating me like I'm one of their models." David reveals some details that sound similar to what I've heard from Barrett Poole. On the day of the event, David says he's picked up by a preppy guy dressed head to toe in Abercrombie & Fitch. He's around David's age, who's 23 at the time, and looks like he could be an Abercrombie model.
They jump into a black SUV and begin the drive from Manhattan to the Hamptons. It takes a couple of hours, so David tries to make small talk with the driver. I was full of questions like, how did you get wrapped up into this? And that sort of thing. David says the driver is dismissive, flippant. Not talkative. Made it clear they weren't really allowed to talk to me. And so David quickly shoots off a text to a friend. Hey, I'm going up to the Hamptons if you don't hear from me, lol.
They finally arrive. It's David's first time in the Hamptons and it's a world apart from his hometown in Texas.
I'd never been to a mansion before, so this was all very new to me, and I felt privileged in some sick way of like, this is cool. I'm going to a place that you only see or hear about in the movies or in TV. I mean, it was absolutely beautiful, very secluded and private, but it reminded me aesthetically of one of their stores. Same kind of color palettes and tones, which struck me as odd as to why would you want to live in your store?
Entering the mansion, David spots other young men arriving, but says they're kept apart by Mike Jeffries' staff, the housemen, and told not to speak to each other. One of the housemen approaches David and asks him to sign a form. He says it's some kind of non-disclosure agreement. It was, OK, sign here. And then, like, we didn't get copies or anything. It was sign here. And then it was just kind of like, hurry up, hurry up, hurry up, let me get that from you.
David says after signing the NDA, the housemen give further instructions. It was, all right, guys, take off your clothes, get down to your briefs. And I was just told, you're going to go out there and Mike and Matthew are essentially going to interview you. You're going to have a nice conversation for a while. And then you're going to, at some point, you're all going to go into another room and there'll be a party waiting for you. David walks into the room and towards Mike Jeffries and his partner.
I wanted to seem confident. I had a conversation with Mike Jeffries and Matthew Smith about my hopes and dreams, my career goals and aspirations. And so I was very clear on like, "I would love to work with Abercrombie. I'd love to be in your catalog." They seemed to enjoy that aspect of the knowingness, but also be kind of dismissive of it, but in the sense of, "Oh, okay, well, we'll keep that in mind."
David says he's finding the whole experience really odd, but he's keen to impress, so just goes with the flow. But he says it becomes apparent that this isn't what he thought it was going to be. Mike started asking me, like, sexually charged questions about my time playing football in high school, whatever, like, kind of wondering about locker room antics, and it was just, like, as if he was edging already. But they were both fully dressed. Shortly thereafter, it was...
Let's go to the next room. And it's there where David says the energy changes entirely. Pawned playing on a big TV screen, he says the housemen are suddenly in their briefs, carrying platters of sex toys and lube. There was nothing ever explicit on what would or would not happen. But I never anticipated that this was going to happen. I didn't... It became a bit of a sex party.
It looked like we worked at an Abercrombie & Fitch store. And so I kind of just assumed that that was his kick. David says Mike Jeffries' housemen were standing, watching on the entire time. And he says there's something about the way they carry themselves that makes him think they weren't just there to serve champagne. I believe that they were there as security guards.
David says Mike Jeffries starts directing what's going on in the room.
Mike was telling me what he wanted to happen, and I didn't know if I was allowed to say yes or no to that. I remember him saying, do you like poppers? And I remember saying, I didn't really know what that was. And then him saying, don't worry, I like it. And grabbing the back of my head and kind of holding it under my nose. God, I remember wanting to pass out.
Poppers or amyl nitrate are a muscle relaxant. They can give you a brief euphoric head rush and are sometimes used during sex. At one point, Mike decided he wanted to have sex with me. It's difficult to remember exactly everything that happened, but I remember Matthew telling him to wear a condom because he didn't want to.
I remember he kept trying to like take condoms off and try to insert himself into me. He's a big guy, he's strong. I remember him pushing his hand on the back of my neck. It's just so difficult to really understand what consent even looks like in that moment. I didn't want that to happen. I remember saying, "Ow" and "Stop" and "No," but in the context of, "You're hurting me right now." It's not that it stopped, it's like it was redirected.
He wanted me to have sex with some of these other guys. I mean, at that point, he had his hands on me, and so it was like he was physically directing me with his hands, like, in an aggressive manner of, you know, "Do this. Now do that." And between him and the security guards, I didn't feel safe to, like, say no or I don't feel comfortable with this. I don't really know what would have happened. I didn't feel like I had any choice.
David says after his trip to the Hamptons, he felt mentally and emotionally exhausted. He gets back in touch with Jim, the fixer who set him up with the other Quamby guys in the first place, seeking answers about what had just happened. From the sounds of it, Jim's so central to what's been going on here. I need to get answers from him too, but I'm not ready to track him down just yet.
And I remember reaching out to Jim after the first time and being like, "So that's not really what I was expecting." You mentioned before that, you know, this guy I might be able to get in the catalog. And he was just like, "Well, yeah, I talked to the guys and, you know, they really like you a lot and they'd like to see you again, but maybe you could work on your weight. If you lost a little bit of weight, you know, you're a little softer on the midsection and it's, you know, you're a little shorter, but if you could work on that and maybe bulk up a little bit."
My self-esteem just kind of crumbled. I mean, I think I was like, I didn't think I was out of shape. I'm only like, I'm only 23. And I worked out, busted my ass trying to work out thinking, okay, well, if I get to go back there and I'll be better appealing in this time, maybe then they'll be like, you know, we need to introduce you to our photographer and get you set up with XYZ. When Jim gets back in touch with David about another opportunity to meet the Abercrombie guys, David agrees to go.
Considering everything he's told me, I'm trying to understand why. Why did you keep going back on subsequent trips? The first trip I didn't know what I was getting into. I had no idea what to expect and I kept coming back because I think that I wanted it to mean something. And so it was like if I stop this now, if I don't go back, then what was it for?
What was the point? What was the purpose? Why did I do it in the first place? It was as if if I didn't see this through to completion and get what I wanted, then it would have all been for nothing and I would have been just turned out. Between 2010 and 2011, David goes to five events organised for Mike Jeffries and Matthew Smith. Some were abroad. He says two were in London and another in the south of France.
He shows me passport stamps as well as itineraries for two of the events, which were sent to him by Jim. What David's now telling me is that this is much bigger than the Hamptons. It's an international operation where men like him are being flown around the world to attend events with the Abercrombie guys.
He says on some of these trips abroad, the houseman asked for his passport and only returned it after the event was over. Mike Jeffries and Matthew Smith didn't directly pay me. I was given cash with my passport after everything was complete. It was, here's your passport and your plane ticket, home. Which made me feel like, if I had not done this, would I have gotten any of this back? I don't recall how much money I got, $3,000 to $5,000, $3,000.
I think maybe 35, 4,000. I don't know, to be sure. - And what did you understand the money was for? - As Jim put it, the money was for my time. That the way he had inferred it was, yeah, you were invited to a sex party and you got paid for your company. - I naively believed that I had some semblance of control. I thought that because I was a former Marine and I'd been trained in combat that I could protect myself, but this was much more mental than anything.
I kept telling myself I was in control and it was fine, but the reality was I wasn't. And I didn't really fully understand that until the last time that I saw them. David says this final visit was to another of Mike Jeffries' homes, this time in Manhattan. At that point, I was terrified. I mean, for the first time, I think I was really scared that I could be in real danger here.
I remember that Mike wanted to insert a suppository into me. I remember asking, "What is that?" And he was like, "Shh, don't worry about it. You'll like it. It'll make you feel good." And it was very unpleasant. And I coyly tried to say I needed to use the restroom and I'll be right back. And he was like, "You leave that in there." And I was taken aback because he was generally pretty playful, but he became very serious. Like a darkness came out.
He was strong, surprisingly stronger than he looked. He lifted my leg up right in the air. And Matthew, of all people, is who saved me because he was like, "No, Mike, what are you doing? Stop it. Come over here." This is the second time David's told me Matthew Smith intervened to rein Mike Jeffries in. And a few times during our conversation, he reflects on the relationship between the couple.
Sure, Mike Jeffries was the high-flying CEO, but David says Matthew Smith seemed to be overseeing some of the arrangements at the events. Matthew was silent, quiet, calculating, kind of always in the background type of person. But like an intensity, an intelligent intensity about him. It almost seemed as if he was running the show. Trying to fulfil their fantasies.
The whole time I've been so focused on Mike Jeffries, the former head of A&F, that maybe I've overlooked Matthew Smith. The invites David and Barrett received mention both of their names. So who is the other Abercrombie guy? There have been points in my life where, you know, probably my self-esteem was low or I was feeling, you know, sorry for myself, kind of reliving from time to time some of my past experiences.
I've got pretty good at tracking people down over the years. But David's right. Matthew Smith is a ghost.
So far, all I found is one blurry photo of him stepping out of a car, but nothing else. So who is this mysterious British man, seemingly always at the side of Mike Jeffries? And what's his role in all of this? He just said, hey, I own a business. I think maybe you'd be a good fit.
Would you be interested in, you know, coming for an interview? And I said, well, what kind of business is this? And he said, I'm not going to tell you. That's next time on the Abercrombie Guys. Thanks for listening to the World of Secrets podcast, an investigation from BBC Radio 5 Live and Panorama. If you've enjoyed this episode, then please tell a friend, spread the word and even better, write a review.
and let us know what you think of the series using the hashtag World of Secrets. You can write to me and the team at Rianna, that's R-I-A-N-N-A, at bbc.com. The Abercrombie Guys is presented and investigated by me, Rianna Croxford. The podcast producers are Ruth Evans, Ailis Hart and Emma Close. The BBC News investigation editor is Ed Campbell and the podcast editor is Richard Fenton-Smith.
Sound design and mix by Neil Churchill and Gareth Jones. Production support by Debbie Richford, Sophie Hill, Jackie Johnson and Kirsten Oliver. And technical support by Jonathan Glover and Jack Willis. The world of secret sea music is by Jeremy Wormsley. This podcast is made in collaboration with BBC Panorama. The editor is Karen Whiteman, executive producer is Tom Stone and the producer is Kate Brown.
The Abercrombie Guys is a BBC News long-form audio production for BBC Sounds. The head of long-form audio is Emma Rippon and the deputy head of BBC Current Affairs is Jim Gray. The commissioning editor at BBC Sounds is Dylan Haskins and commissioning executive is Louise Catton-Horne. The assistant commissioner is Natasha Johansson.
With thanks to Hannah Livingston, Joe Kent, Adam Walker and Paul Myers. And thank you to everyone who spoke to us for this investigation. We can't tell stories like this without you. Thank you for listening.
Big, baggy, flamboyant, luminous green, pink and yellow shirts. Gorilla creamed hair, boy band style. Levi's denim jackets, whack on the cologne. Welcome to Belfast 1997. Not just any old part of Belfast, but gay Belfast. It was electric. There was semi-naked guys dancing in cages. Every cell in my body was just lit up. Sat at the bar was Darren Bradshaw. What happened next would go on to threaten peace in Northern Ireland.
One of the few gay police officers in the country. Someone had told them that Darren Bradshaw was going to be murdered. It's a story that's never been told before. For his own skin, he traded Darren's life. This is Blood on the Dance Floor. Listen now on BBC Sounds.
What's up, y'all? Janice Torres here. And I'm Austin Hankowitz. We're the hosts of Mind the Business, Small Business Success Stories, a podcast presented by iHeartRadio's Ruby Studios and Intuit QuickBooks. Join us as we speak with small business owners about the tools they use to turn their ideas into success.
From finding that initial spark of entrepreneurship to organizing payments and invoices, we've got you covered. So follow and listen to Mind the Business, Small Business Success Stories on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
