I Choose...Co-Parenting with Peter Facinelli Pt. 2 45:26

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Hi everyone, welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about the choices we make and where they lead us. Today I want to share part two of my conversation with my ex-husband and co-parenting partner, Peter Facinelli. If you haven't listened to part one, you're going to want to go back and do that so you're all caught up. The reason I wanted to continue this conversation about divorce and co-parenting

is because it's an important conversation to have not only for me and Peter, but maybe for you as well. I'm also going to want to break this conversation down and kind of talk about how it affected me and made me feel. So I am going to be talking to Adele a little later on in this episode, but let's do this. Let's dive back in to my chat with Peter.

I also feel like we were very codependent on each other because we were so young that it was like that we were all that we knew. You know what I mean? So like I was codependent on you in an emotional way. You were codependent on me in an emotional way. So, you know, it was, I think that that was not the best, you know, thing for a relationship. Like what do you mean codependent? Like what does that mean in a way?

Because that term for me is kind of 50-50. Codependent, it was like, like I said, what do you want for dinner? I don't know. I didn't know what choices to have. It was like, well, what do you want for dinner? You know what I mean? Where do you want to live? I think it was maybe you didn't see it as much because I was kind of living your life.

In your life. You know what I mean? Like you had a life that was established already. And I kind of came into it. You moved in. And I kind of moved into this established life. So for you, you're like, this is great. I've got a husband and I've got dogs and I've got a house. And this house now we have together. And I remember, you know, but it was like, you know, I didn't really feel like I had many decisions within that space. It was like, how do I...

service my wife and make her happy, you know, because if happy wife, happy life, right? So you're like, how do I make her? Oh, she wants to go up to your ranch this weekend. Okay, I'll go. Part of me didn't really want to go, but I was like, I'll just go and I'll drive and I'll drive back and I'll, you know, do this over here and I'll do this over there and I'll plan the vacations and I'll do this. And I was like, you know, I didn't have a lot of choices yet.

It was just the part that I felt like I was good at playing, but I hadn't formed me yet. You know what I mean? So you had already formed you. So there was a codependency there in the sense of I don't know what choices... What I liked, what I don't like. I don't know what I like. Like I said, it was really...

interesting when we broke up because it was like I don't know what my likes and dislikes are. I have to kind of rediscover who I am. And you probably had to do that too. There's a lot of you that was like

you know, now you're an independent person. And then you have these two independent figures that are like, okay, I'm kind of figuring out what I like. And I'm like, I'm figuring out what I like. And then, well, now we got to come together to co-parent, you know? And so some of that independence is like, well, no, I want to hold on to this. You know, this is how I want to do parent. And this is, you're like, this is how I want to parent, you know? And so then the problems arose there. Cause it was like, we were so used to like,

kind of servicing each other within this relationship, but we were kids, you know? So yeah, I mean, it's just, it was, it was, there were good times and there were bad times, but, but we got, we got through these, even the bad times we got through in the sense of like our kids always came out of it. And so even, you know, like I said before, the,

It's not fun being uncomfortable, but uncomfortable is kind of where you grow. And so there's a lot of times of uncomfortability for both of us too. And we were growing. Let's talk about briefly like step parents bringing in another person to the mix. We did that. Not initially. Neither of us got married right away.

But we both had a few relationships, left and right. Yeah. And the girls would get close. I know from my perspective, your relationship after we were divorced, the girls got close with your then girlfriend. And that was very, very, very, very difficult for me. I wondered how you felt about

when another guy came in. I don't think I ever was really serious with anybody until Dave.

Yeah. I mean, it was a catch 22 because like I had a longer term person there that was getting close to them. And so that was hard to watch them go through that, have another person leave, you know, that I couldn't, you know, I had nothing that I could, that I could do to help that or not have that happen. It was just, it's, it's what happened. And, and I felt bad having them be an effect of that because I was with that person for a few years and,

And then on your side, you were having people come into their lives

And then kind of, you know, leaving in shorter spurts. You know what I mean? I know like they would go on vacation with a guy and then kind of get to know him and then you would move on to somebody else. And it was you kind of, you know, dating. And you're like, I think this person is safe enough to introduce them. And then, and then they would, so they had these shorter amounts of like this guy that, that they would get to know. And for me, it was like, I just kind of had to trust you. You know, I had to go, okay, well she trusts this person.

Then I have to trust them. You know what I mean? I was never, I never felt jealous of another person coming in because I always felt that the more love that the kids had, the better. Yeah, I remember you saying that. You know, I was never. It's about. I was never in competition to go, well, I'm the dad here. I think that it was harder on you for that being the mom, you know, watching another person come in. But for me, I was like, yeah.

When Dave came in, I was like, he's a wonderful guy. And the kids really enjoyed being with him. And so it made me smile that they had another person that loved them so much. And I think that they're incredibly lucky to have, you know, they have a stepmom now and my current partner, Lily, and they have Dave. And, like, they have these – that's why, like, I don't look at it like it's –

a burden that they have to carry for the rest of their lives, this divorce. I really look at it like, wow, they're incredibly fortunate to have had now these step-parents that they've gotten to know that have added to their personalities, that they've grown through them as well, you know? Mm-hmm.

And then I also think that they're going to be lucky that they can look to your relationship with Dave and, you know, get inspired by the love there. And they can look at the relationship between me and my partner and get inspired by that relationship, you know. And I know you've had, you know, your things with Dave and they've watched you come out the other side and grow through that. And so like...

Maybe that's why they're so great because we kind of had a lot of mistakes happen. We were growing up. We were growing up and they were kind of learning from our mistakes in some ways. But I don't think that there's any perfect parenting textbook model. I mean, even now, like I'm a new dad. I have a 20-month-old and people are like, oh, you have three kids. You must be a pro at it now. I'm like, no, I –

It's like every kid is so different and they, they require different things. And then the game keeps changing because like,

you know things that i did with my kids are like oh don't do that now you know i remember when when uh when jack was younger and i went to go take a nap with him i used to take naps with like lucabella on my chest like outside on the swing like like this um you know you can't do that now no they're like you know don't don't take a nap with your child on your chest they'll they they could suffocate and i'm like really i used to do that with lucabella and it's like

Well, that's just – Oh, come on. No, seriously. Like there's studies now that a lot of parents I guess would fall asleep and their kid would get, I don't know, suffocate. So like you can't – yeah, you can't do that now. It's like all new rules. There is – what's the other one? There's –

When we were parenting our kids, we were like, every time they did something wonderful, you're like, oh, I'm so proud of you. I'm so proud of you. And I was like, as a parent, having parents that on the other spectrum kind of left me to do my thing. And if I got a 99, my mom would be like, oh, well, that's great. Get 100 next time, which made me more of a perfectionist, if anything. But now they're like, don't say I'm so proud of you to your kid. I'm like, really?

I'm like, wait, why? Because if you say I'm so proud of you for what they do, then they're looking to outside sources for for like, oh, I'm getting these grades for you. So I feel good from the outside. Right. So there's all these articles out that like you're supposed to say to your kid. Well, how do you feel about that?

Are you proud of yourself? Yeah. Well, that's so wonderful. I'm so happy that you're proud of the work that you did. And so like... Look at that. I just learned something. Yeah. You look at that and I'm like, well, I thought I knew these answers. And you know, in five, 10 years, that might be like, no, you're supposed to say you're proud of them. You're like, wait a second. But I get that. I get that like...

okay if if you keep telling them you're proud of them then they're going to always do something to please the parent and then they become people pleasers right and i can yeah it makes sense so then you're just like okay so i'll make sure that they know that they they're doing that work that artwork is something that they should be proud because if you self-generate

that you're proud of your work, then you don't need any outside forces to tell you it's good or bad. And that's kind of an interesting model. So I'm learning all the time. I mean, can you imagine if we knew the things now, if we knew that then as parents? Yeah. Wonder how different things would be. I don't know. I don't know. But again, I feel like we did something right. Yeah.

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I asked you the question about like, you know, what do you think co-parenting is? And I just kind of want to answer it for myself that it's about respect for the partner, the baby partner. Ultimately in that communication that comes from that place of respect, which was something we were definitely challenged on. I think that I was very...

in tune with keeping their childhoods alive, even though their lives had changed so much. That's very challenging, especially when they're going back and forth between two different homes. You talked about the girls having to pack a bag. That for me was one of the most heart-wrenching parts of it was

Because I would go try to help them pack or, you know, say, would you like me to help you? And Fiona specifically would be like, no, I want to do it myself. And it would rip my heart out because I felt responsible for her having to pack a bag every week, like be so unsettled. You know, I felt like it's my fault, our fault that they have to do this. And it's unfortunate. You know, I feel like, oh, my kid's living out of a suitcase. Yeah.

And just when she would go to your house and get settled in and comfortable and you would get the pace going and you guys would start getting on the same page and everybody would be happy, then like you said, it would be time for them to come to my house. And then there was that whole different readjustment period, I think. So that all plays into the respect, not just for you, but for them. And also for me, I...

I think it's probably was really hard for them to understand why, because they never saw us fight. They never, they never understood why we broke up. And I also still don't know that they do, but I feel like they, they get it in a different way now. But for me, it was remind, remembering to, to remind them that they came from a place of love. Like they were born into love and they,

Because they can take on the feelings of why it didn't work or why my family's not together anymore. So those are some of the most important parts of co-parenting for me. I would ask you, though, what is it that you love the most about being a co-parent with me? I mean...

I think, like I said, even when we didn't agree on things and even sometimes when like, you know, we text back and forth and we knew how to press each other's buttons too. Oh, I can press your buttons right now if I want to. No, you already did with the plant attacking me. I know you did that on purpose. But, you know,

I really see sometimes a lot of you in our kids and it makes me smile. It really does. Like in the things that they do and the way they handle themselves. I think you're an incredibly strong woman. I think the kids see you as a strong woman. I think that, you know, there's an inner strength that they carry because of that.

And so, you know, I think there's a lot of wonderful things that you modeled for them and, you know, teaching them. And I'm appreciative of that, you know. And I'm very appreciative that I had a co-parent that cared so much. I think that both of us cared sometimes so much that we were like, no, this is the way we have to do it. This is the way we have to do it.

And it was hard to find the, you know, the, the, the right way or the way that, you know, the middle ground on that and frustrating, I'm sure for both for you and me, it was just like, well, how, cause, cause even when we saw each other's points, it was like, okay, but it becomes so important to go to, to each other that if, if, if it's, if they're not parented this way, then something like, and that's where I say that they're resilient because like,

you know, they're, whatever we decide the ultimate goal, uh, they're going to be okay. And they were, and they, they, they're so wonderful. So like, you know, I'm, I'm appreciative that I have, uh, Mother's Day was recently. And I remember thinking of you on Mother's Day and thinking, well, you know, she, she was so wonderfully there and available all the time. Like, uh,

For me, I was on the other opposite spectrum. So I was always there, but I let them kind of be, you know, and you were always there, but you were like making sure that they, you know, were like very protective in a way that was very loving. So, yeah, I think that the balance of that, you know, like when I said I had it on one extreme, you had it on the other extreme in some weird way.

having it on both, you know, one weekend be this and one weekend be that, it kind of grew to this middle ground of that. You know, maybe that's what worked. Maybe we didn't know what we were doing in that sense and it kind of came together. But the proof is in the pudding. That's right. The proof is in the pudding, yes. You got that one right. I got that one right. I grew up with Italian immigrants for parents, so like sometimes I get words backwards sometimes.

You mix things up. Yeah. Your phrasing. My phrasing, which always makes you laugh. Yeah. I think we did okay. Yeah. Thank you for talking it out with me. Oh, no, thanks for- I hope that- I feel like this was wonderful. Actually, coming into it, I was like, I think this is going to be really wonderfully healing for us because we never really sat down and talked about our styles of parenting or

you know, where we were coming from. It was always like, I think she do this. I think we do that. And I don't agree. And I do agree. And then there were times where we're like, Oh, we got to sit down, you know, come together on this. Cause this is a big one. And we did, you know, a lot of times. Yeah. When, when the hit the fan, we were always, we had each other's backs. Yeah. You know, there, there was a,

It's mostly like smaller things we'd argue about, but the bigger things we're like, no, this is a big one. But that said, like, I know we're coming out of the other end of it, but like, I'm excited to continue co-parenting. We have, you know, now we get to co-parent adult kids.

Yeah, we're almost done. Well, I don't think you're ever done as a parent. Exactly. That's what I was going to say. You're stuck with me forever. We're always going to be in each other's lives. It grows into adult parenting, you know. And a lot of times now, you know, I can go to the kids and be like, what are you feeling? You know, but we do still check in with each other. And I think if we took anything out of this, we should communicate more, you know, by phone on any of the issues. Yeah, that's going to be a problem. Yeah.

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The more you save, do not delay, dear listener. Experience the fashion revolution that is snag and visit snagtights.us today. Okay, there is a lot to unpack with this conversation. So I'm going to need to bring in my friend and our therapist, Adele, to talk through some of this with me. Hi. Hi. Can you believe what just happened? I can and I can't. It was kind of epic. Yeah.

that you guys did that. I feel incredibly proud of both of you and so happy that you did it, but I'm still kind of reeling. So you must be just like, how are you feeling? You know, after we completed the interview or the conversation or whatever you want to call it, I felt unsettled, honestly, like revisiting everything.

Those things and even just sitting with him and talking one-on-one with him was different because we don't really do anything that's not just about the girls logistically. Yeah, I wondered about that. Like sitting on a couch with him in a room, just the two of you, eye contact, and really processing what you went through. Yeah, it was weird. I felt a little spinny the whole rest of the day. Spinny and exhausted. Mm-hmm.

It kind of took it out of me. Yeah. Yeah. I noticed at one point you got a little emotional. And do you remember when it was? It was that moment.

that you took responsibility, which I have to say was kind of my favorite thing about the whole interview is both of you were in a place where you could see your part more clearly. And I heard you start to talk about the times when you were sharing custody and that you understand that you had operated from a selfish place and you wish you hadn't. And I heard a catch in your throat. I think it's,

I know that it's natural, you know, instinctual survival to operate from a place of selfishness in that situation that we were, that I was in that, you know, and I think there are going to always be emotions around that, that time of my life, you know, because it was, yeah, it was defining. Yeah.

And I think that I don't know that I've ever really told him like, yeah, I could have done things better. I could have done things differently if I had known then what I know now. Or if I was at a calmer, just emotional place, I could have been better. But there was a lot of we for me. And I know that's probably me hearing it through my, what do we used to say? Through my little red wagon. Yeah.

Remember that? Yeah. Or you're funneling it through. Yeah. It's your little red wagon. Wait, explain the little red wagon for a second. Well, I mean, the way I understand little red wagon is that's your deal and your issue and your problem and you figure it out. Don't bring me into it. Don't put me on it. Don't project me into it. I had a therapist once, not you, tell me that we all carry around, we all pull around our little red wagon behind us.

and it's full of all of our shit. It's, it's our, yeah, it's our history, I guess. I mean, that probably that therapist meant it. I use it a little bit differently, but that therapist probably meant like, that's your red wagon. It's in your history, you know, and there's this great saying, if it's hysterical, it's historical. So, you know, if you're, if you're

emotions are way up if you're being super reactive you want to check yourself and be like am i am i is this historical is this really about me it was it was hysterical so i'm pretty sure it was historical you mean back in the day when you were i wasn't feeling selfish or recent no no i felt very calm very centered and we talked about things that we've never discussed until now that's exactly what i was just going to say it's you've never discussed those things

You've never really owned those things with him, which I think was a beautiful thing for you to do and a gift to give to him. But I will say, I want to say a couple of things that I got, that I heard from Peter that I heard that he has grown up to. The way he understood both of your family dynamics, right? What was modeled for you, right? How Bruno was with talking about

his dad working all the time and how he took that as a model and a cue with your kids to, to speak well of you and highly of you, even during the hard times and to kind of protect them from that. And I thought, you know what he does? He is thinking in

sort of family lessons and multi-generational transmission. You know, he's kind of thinking in those ways. He's thought about this. Yeah, yeah. It's true because you have to be able to step outside of yourself enough to see that picture of why I am the way I am and why he is the way he is and then why we were the way we were. Yeah. And I love the story you told about being at their house in Queens and like,

You know, he was saying, I just, one thing I would disagree with him about is he kept saying, well, I just chose to be strong. And I kept thinking every time I heard him say that, I wanted to say strong is not a, an asset. Being emotional is actually a very strong thing. And when you talked about going to the back room and Bruna followed you in and said, don't cry, don't cry. And he said, oh no, I need to cry. And I was so proud of you because I thought that is an evolved Jenny. Yeah.

That is a very emotionally intelligent Jenny because vulnerability is strength. Yeah, and some people just can't.

Yeah. Emotions. Yeah. Like when they see someone having emotions, they shut down or they, they fly, flee, whatever that they freeze, they flight. Flight, flight, freeze. Yeah. And so I, I ran into that on a couple of occasions with his beautiful, our beautiful family, my extended family, whom I grew to love so much for,

And I think that that was, you know, I'm sure so many women or men, that's something when you get a divorce and you split up families that have been together and grown together for a long time, it's so hard to let go of your in-laws or your, you know, my sisters that I had. And for a while, I really did have to just let them go and cut them off and know that that wasn't an option for me anymore to have any feelings around. But

Later, as time passed, now we're all able to see each other and go to have dinners together. And I love being able to be back with my in-laws again, even though they're not my in-laws. They're just acquaintances, friends now.

But it's a healing story what happened between you because when you divorce, you don't just lose a spouse, right? You lose an extended family and the loss reverberates. So I love hearing you say that, that, you know, yes, time heals and, you

And you both have come to a place where not only have you restitched together some of those relationships, you've also added people to the extended and blended family. And I really heard that from Peter too, which I loved hearing him say, you know, he sees and knows that you're happy now and that, you know, Dave is wonderful and that the girls have integrated both sides.

families into a large extended family. I mean, it's a healing story, this whole thing, as hard as I'm sure it was. Yeah, I don't want to give anybody the misconception that it was easy or it was quick or without a lot of pain.

But we somehow got there. And I'm getting emotional again. Like, you know, like that was a really hard time. And it wasn't just hard for me. It was really hard for the girls. And it was really hard for Peter. And for me. And for you. Seeing you in so much pain. It was so, so painful. And I think. It was one of the hardest breakups I've ever gone through. I know.

And I think today I was able to a little bit see, because I, you know, in my story, as Peter mentioned, I didn't feel that he was that broken up by it. Like I didn't, I knew he was bummed about losing our family, but I never, and I don't know that I still feel that he was torn up about losing me. I feel like it was more the family.

But I saw at least him acknowledging the pain that he did go through and that he had to work through. Yeah. I know he was in a lot of pain because he called me a lot during that time. And I didn't always share it with you because, you know, he asked me not to, but he needed to kind of talk through stuff. But he was deeply broken up. How long ago was this even? Like we divorced in 2012. It's a long time ago.

Yeah. And I can still get like upset. But it's in your body. It's in, it was a trauma, right? For everybody involved. And if you really go back there and you just really went back there with them, right. And you're, and you're kicking it up, but that's good. See, and this is the other growth that I see in you is that you would sort of want to cancel it out and not deal with what just happened and you're feeling it and it's okay. Right. Again, you're healing. This is more healing. I don't really want to feel it.

Can I just kick it out? You're letting yourself. Yeah. And then also we can like, we don't have to keep going deep either, but I'm proud of you for feeling the depth of it and the vulnerability of it and the loss of it. And also the beauty again of where you are today as a blended extended family. Yeah. Yeah.

I wondered also, you know, towards the end, he said, you know, I think you asked him what did you, what positive things have come out of our co-parenting. I asked him, I was being cheeky and I asked him, what was your favorite part about being a co-parent with me? Oh, of course. I was like, so excited to hear his answer. But do you remember what he said? Well, he first, he kind of chuckled because he knows me and he knows that I was trying to get a compliment out of him.

But he did. What did I do right? Tell me more. He did say that he respects and values the fact that I instilled a great strength in our girls.

And that made me feel good. And could you take that in? I could take that in. But at the same time, I was also thinking that right there is the strength is the way, the reason we couldn't stay together. Like, you know, and I'm not saying like his current partner is not strong. We're just different strong. Right. But my kind of strong didn't gel, you know, after a while. And it's...

That's made me laugh. Well, and he said why. He said, I didn't have a backbone. I didn't have an identity. I didn't have a... Barely had a personality. You know, I was 20. He was 21 and he fell in love with you. I totally get it. I totally see that. Like when you...

you just become something all of a sudden that you didn't see coming and it takes over your life, which our children absolutely did and our family and everything changed. But at the same time, I was like, why couldn't you have told me that? Like, why couldn't you have communicated that to me during that time? And perhaps we could have

grown forward together and found our voices individually. But I ultimately think that's what did happen is that we did start to become more of our own, more assured in who we were and it just wasn't matching up.

Yeah. And who knows if you could have heard it? Who knows if he could have said to you, like, I don't feel like I know myself in this relationship. That might have felt threatening to you at that time in a way that it wouldn't at this age. It definitely would. That is a little triggering. I can't find myself in this relationship. You would have taken it as if somehow you had done that to him, is my guess. Absolutely, because he explained it. Like, he stepped into my big, giant life.

Moved into my house, you know, and all those all those cards were sort of stacked against us in those traditional aspects and

Yeah. I mean, he is a traditional guy. Well, in some ways, he's incredibly traditional. Italian, Catholic, family. Everybody eats dinner together every night. One thing I kind of wish I had heard from him, and I think it's in line with what we're talking about right now, is that, you know, he kept he said a couple times that felt like an arranged marriage or, you know, he didn't have he couldn't find his voice in the marriage.

He was kind of on the edge of talking about it as, but he wasn't owning it. He wasn't saying, I understand that was my responsibility. I understand that it was my job to find myself that it wasn't because he kept saying, well, you had your life and you had your job and you knew who you were.

And he did when he talked about being codependent, he was getting there, but he could never quite say, I understand now that it was my responsibility to ask for that, to work towards that, to dig deep, to try to find myself inside. I just don't think at that young age for both of us, we had the capacity or the knowledge or the tools necessary.

To do any of that. And we were so busy raising those kids that there wasn't a lot of opportunity for that kind of growth that really needed to happen. Yeah. And I think you kind of nailed it right there is that part of this whole show that you're doing around I Choose Me is tuning in, slowing down, even if you're 21, even if you're 25, even if you have a big career, even if you have three kids.

Right. Because that's exactly what we're talking about is maybe you could have, you know, or maybe you can impart that to people that are listening.

that it's not too late. In fact, you can start early choosing yourself so you know who you are, you know what you're bringing to a relationship, you can say what you want for dinner, what kind of furniture you want in the house, just building on what Peter said in the podcast. It's never too early to start. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Well, you just imparted that. So thank you. I hope people heard that. And I do...

Definitely try to like, you know, tell the girls that now I think, wow, they're so far ahead of the game because they have these messages and they have, you know, someone who's really interested in helping them evolve earlier than I did. Because I know for me, it took me a long time to get there and there was so much pain in those years, those early years of me not knowing that I could choose myself. Yeah.

And then also not knowing that just because I'm choosing myself, it doesn't mean I'm not choosing the marriage or the partnership or the whatever.

In fact, you are actually by choosing yourself, choosing the marriage and the partnership, right? Hopefully, usually, yeah. Entirely evidenced in the conversation you just had with Peter, because he's saying, I didn't choose myself. I lost my way in this marriage and I ended up having to leave to find myself. So what we're saying is that, yeah, if you choose yourself, you find yourself. I always knew that, you know, I always knew that, that he didn't have enough of a sense of who he was.

independent of me or independent of the girls. And I, I knew he was trying to figure that out. And I, I just, I don't think,

I was gracious enough or, you know, maybe patient enough or encouraging enough to let him do what he really need to do in his early twenties, mid twenties. Yeah. Okay. So this brings me to a question, makes me think about Dave and it makes me think about what you may have learned out of that conversation. Yeah.

in terms of the partner that you are today with the husband that you have today? Is there anything, any takeaways for you? Or do you feel like you're enacting the things you wish you had done with Peter? Well, I think that it just, I'm not throwing any shade whatsoever, but I think that in my current relationship, I'm able to express my own needs and wants and dislikes and likes and

Without my partner being threatened by it or angered by it or disappointed, you know, all the, you know, any kind of negative reaction. I think that it's just a different dynamic because it's,

Yeah, I have grown and I have learned things and I have changed some things, but I'm still me. I'm still very straightforward. I'm still very direct. I'm still... There's still times when I absolutely could say things a little bit kinder or nicer or more patient. I mean, we all lose our shit sometimes. We all, you know, go back to those places, those ruts of the way we react. Right. But I...

I also now treat myself a little bit more graciously. Like I allow myself to make mistakes sometimes and Dave allows me to make some mistakes sometimes and we kind of talk about it and work through it. And, you know, hopefully that continues to change the trajectory of things. But I feel like it's just a different dynamic and it's different.

It's so two different people, you know, Dave and Peter are such different people and different ages. Right. Dave's, you know, in his forties now. Also, I would say that you have awareness now that you didn't used to have. So you catch yourself. Right. And you're pretty quick to, you know, it's kind of like the five second rule with food. You have your five second rule of like, if you might, if something comes up and out kind of quick, you'll be like, Hey, I just did that thing.

Right. You're you're much more aware and more transparent. And that creates a lot more space in a relationship. Yeah. Like when you make a mess, when I make a mess, it's important to me to go back and clean it up. Yeah. I love that. So this kind of felt like cleaning up a mess a little bit in a certain way. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Do you feel like a closure is not the right word, but do you feel a little more complete or a little bit more integrated with this story now? I do. I had known that we were getting to the point where we could respect one another's differences and it was feeling better and more cohesive, but it was nice to verbalize it, you know, and, and, and hear him be in the same position. Yeah.

You said before that you had, there was something that you had wished you had heard him say. Was there something that you had wished you had heard me say? Oh, interesting. You know, I always like to like stop pointing the finger and start. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good question. And I was so proud of you, Jen.

I was so proud of you. You're biased though. You just love me too much. I mean, no, but look, I am biased and I love you too much. But I do believe me. When you want to hear the truth, you call me. And when I don't, I don't. No, no. In fact, I stopped listening to it and I thought that is a grownup Jenny. I felt really proud of you and really happy for you. And really, I heard the work. I

I heard the work you've done. I heard the growth. I heard the evolution. I honestly can't, I can't think of anything in the moment right now that I wish I'd heard you say. I left feeling like I wish I had said more because there was a,

There was a cadence and a rhythm in our relationship together where he would do all the talking and I would just resort to just listening and agreeing and, you know, or being in my mind disagreeing and getting all irritated by that, but never really communicating it. And there were a couple of points where I said, you know, I kind of disagree with you on that. Or I think we're talking about two different things. And I feel like right afterwards, there,

There was something ignited in me. It was like an old feeling that came back of frustration and irritation that I wasn't getting to, you know, say what I needed to say or have my opinion. But again, I had to let that go and not really focus on that, you know?

But you could also, you don't have to just like let it go and push it down or push it away. You can ask yourself, right? You can, this is this kind of self-parenting thing that we talk about. You can ask yourself, okay, what was it that I wish I had said? And I'm going to say it to myself and honor it, right? You don't have to say it to him. And also just, it's not about pushing it down, but it's just about acknowledging it and just reminding myself that it's not really that important.

Right. So acknowledging, okay, that's frustration. That's an old feeling. It's not really current. And is there anything else I need to do about it? Nope. I'm okay. I just acknowledged it and it's, and it kind of dissipated. Yeah. Yeah. I really enjoyed our therapy session. Thank you so much. Do you have any parting words for me? You know, it's so funny. I'm checking in with myself right now. Like, am I having any feelings about how well you're doing?

And how I, you don't need me as much as you, as you used to, right? Like, you know, you have all the answers within you and you've been listening. And I don't mean that need me as a friend. I know we're, we'll always be friends, but you are.

are answering your own questions, right? And you are listening to what's coming up and you're not saying to me, what should I do in this moment? Or I don't know how I feel. I still text you and say, what should I do? How do I handle this? But you're like a backup to my instinct because now I'm able to listen to my gut and my instinct a lot more than I ever was before. Yeah.

Yeah, and you'll always have that from me. So instead of me giving parting words or parting advice, what do you think as things might bubble up?

As your daughters might have questions about the conversation or Dave might any feelings at all. What do you think you might do that sort of is under the guise of like an I choose me moment or just processing those feelings or conversations? I mean, what comes to my mind immediately is that I'm just going to choose to listen to them and honor their perspective and listen.

respect it. You know, I, I can't change it. Like anybody that has a reaction to our conversation, I can't change it or, or mold it into what I want it to be. You just need to let people have their feelings. There's an inner peace and an inner confidence to that answer. Yeah.

And I would apply it to your feelings too, right? Not just your girls and your husband, but if feelings come up for you, just listen. It's just a feeling. Yeah. And I have another feeling and it's that I really like your hair color right now. So keep it that way. Okay. That's all. You got it. Thanks for having me on. I love you. I love you. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye.

In closing, I want to just thank Adele one more time for helping me move through that. And thank you, Peter, too, for coming on and having this conversation with me. I just want to say I'm really proud of both of us for having this sit down. I heard some things that I think I really needed to hear. It felt stirring and settling at the same time.

And I really do love that Peter was so vulnerable and honest. Please know that having that conversation and having it publicly was a choice we both made to maybe help other people going through turbulent times of their own. And I really do hope that by Peter and I opening up about the highs and the lows we've experienced in our co-parenting journey, it will help some of you.

I want to ask you a question. Are you holding on to old feelings, past angers, resentments, sadness? Maybe just think about that this week. And if you find something there, I want to encourage you to dig deep and be brave and choose to release that feeling. That's all you have to do. Simply choose to let it go. I know, I know.

I just said simply, and you may be thinking, yeah, Jenny, it's not that simple. I get it. But I promise you, no matter what your circumstances are, no matter how high the mountain in front of you looks, you can do this. You can choose to release old feelings, old habits that are holding you back, and you can choose to move forward.

You have the power. Thank you for choosing to listen to I Choose Me. You can find all the links to our socials in the show notes. And I want you to know, I love you. I'll be here next week. I hope you choose to be here too.

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