Trying to Be Everything 40:56

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Here's something I hear a lot from parents. I want to give my kids everything. Or I want to be everything to my kids. It is sort of a deeper fear on some level that I'm depriving our children of something. When I know in my heart that two loving parents who...

are so devoted to them, they're lucky to have that with us. I don't think I'm depriving them, but I guess there's this sort of underlying fear that I don't address often about how can I address if there is something lacking in their lives, how do I address that? And in this case, is it that there isn't a woman every day there for them? I recently sat down with two dads of twin toddlers to talk about their concerns about making sure their kids have meaningful relationships with women.

about helping them understand that they don't have a mother, and about being prepared for the tricky questions that will inevitably come their way. Here's what's interesting, and I think applies to all of us. What our conversation ended up really centering on is reframing the limitations we have with our kids and rethinking the idea of being everything to anyone. We'll be right back.

Hi, Jeremiah. Hi, Pierre. Hi. Hi, Dr. Becky. It is really nice to meet both of you and looking forward to getting to know you. So tell me a little bit about the two of you, your family, and like the topic that's on your mind that you want to discuss. Sure. I'll go first. So we are two dads and we have two and a half year old twins and they were born or conceived through surrogacy.

And the reason why I'm mentioning this is that in the concept of surrogacy, unlike an adoption, you really don't have a mother at all. You have a carrier as opposed to a birth mother, and you have an egg donor as opposed to a biological mother. This being said, we've not ignored the concept of mothers. And over the past two years, obviously, we have read tons of books with mothers and sang songs with mothers. Although I should say we sometimes took the liberty of changing things.

word here and there, you know, from mommy and daddy to daddy and papa. I should tell you daddy and papa, obviously. The Frenchman is papa and Jeremiah is daddy. And last point of context is that the kids started preschool, a two-year program, really, in September.

That same month, we noticed that our daughter was playing with her dolls and two interesting things happened. One is that she referred to herself as Mama, which I found interesting because she had had little exposure to actual moms in the past, except in books.

And second is that she made the following statement, which I still remember verbatim. And I remember where I was and which doll she was playing with. And she said, oh, you fell. You have a boo-boo. You're crying. You need your mama. And at that point, I fell down.

ill-equipped to say anything. I think I stuttered something along the lines of, "Well, if your daughter is crying, she can go see Papa as well." But I felt almost embarrassed not to know exactly what to tell her. And I think that was a clear indication that the question of where her mother is, is coming soon, probably sooner than what I expected. And to me, that question could either come

from her to us at home or maybe at school from a classmate. And that's something that maybe worries me a little more because I want to make sure that she has all the tools to feel confident in the answer that she will give when asked that very question at school. So first of all, thank you for so vividly and thoughtfully painting that picture. And so there's so many things I want to ask you about, but Pierre,

What was it like for you when she said that? And maybe I'll ask a leading question. Like, was it injurious in a way? Did it? It was because my worry was that she had articulated that thought in her mind that the boo-boo required a mama to feel better, to heal. Yeah. Whereas, you know,

I dare say we had given her all the comfort that she needed in the past. So we're in my first section. Why would you associate healing with a mother? Yeah. And actually, I think this will probably be a theme in what we talk about, or maybe will be something the two of you can carry after we talk, is when moments happen with one of your kids, right?

And what you said was helpful. Kind of almost writing down verbatim what they say. That's almost good. And then with each other, actually being really honest about like, what does it feel like she's saying? Like, even if it's like, that's crazy. I know she didn't say that. Because in this situation, and you can tell me if I'm off, like...

I could understand if it feels like she's saying like, you have not given me the person I am supposed to go to for comfort and love in a time of injury. Like you are messing me up. You have failed. You are not that person. There's some version of that, that it can feel like a kid is saying. And I don't know, is any of that, is any of that resonating? I don't know. Maybe, I don't know whether I will go that far. That's really the worry, right? And by the way,

I know usually recommend not fast-forwarding too much, but I can't help thinking what it's going to be like when they're teenagers, right? You have a father. Where's my mother? You didn't give me a mother. So all that will, I think, crystallize. I was not thinking about that precisely in that moment, but this sort of fear is coming for sure.

Great. And thank you for correcting me, right? Sometimes I like to say things almost provocatively just to get back to what actually feels right. And so in this moment, like there's a lot that happens when you watch your daughter kind of create a play scenario with this kind of loving, comforting mother. It's

How did that happen? Like, where is she getting these ideas? At some point, she's going to talk about this more directly. She's going to ask, is she going to be upset about this? What is it going to be like when she's 13? What is it going to be like when she's 18? What's going to happen when it comes up at school? And how can I use the time I have with her and the protection of our home to talk about things in a way that she feels kind of protected and prepared for when those moments inevitably come? And

I think it's important to articulate all of that because, again, there's a gap between your daughter is playing. She has a moment of, like, very simple play in the moment. And for us as parents, this happens all the time, one moment for a kid can bring up a whole world of questions.

and concerns for a parent. And then even there, there's a big gap between like, okay, what's going on for me and what's going on for my child? And just recognizing that is huge and validating that to yourself. Wow, this one moment of play really did surface a lot of questions, a lot of concerns, and even some fears I have.

all at once. No wonder, or I always think the phrase makes sense is something our body loves to hear. It makes sense that this is a moment I've played out in my head a lot. I can't forget. It makes sense that I remember the exact words my daughter said because it evoked so many different pathways in my mind. Jeremiah, jump in here. Tell me what this is like for you to hear what's on your mind about this.

Yeah, certainly. I think to answer your question, I think we did sort of make a bit of a mountain out of that molehill. And because it is something we're very sensitive to going forward with this family is how...

we talk about family structure with our children and how we talk about where they came from and how this family was created. I think a related topic for me that comes out of this is how do I make sure, what can I do as a parent to facilitate bonds between our children and adult women in their lives? Because that is something that is important to me. And thankfully, we have very strong women in our lives from their grandmothers, their aunts, just our close friends who are often around.

And we will constantly surround them with these people. But what can I do to make sure that they have a bond with other adults that they can trust and go to and talk to when I'm not the one that can provide a certain topic or they just need someone else to talk to aside from us? Yeah.

So are those two of the big questions? Let me just state them so we can frame the rest of our time together. How can I make sure our kids have exposure, have connection, have meaningful relationships with women, given that we know they're growing up in a two-father family? And is another question, how do I help my kids grow?

kind of understand that they don't have a mother and how can I help them be prepared for kind of the questions that, you know, will come their way. Precisely. Yes. Okay. Let's jump into the latter one first. The one that, right? Because I think, I think it's actually going to help us lead or maybe even reframe the second question. And so that's the order of operations. That seems to make sense. So,

Have they asked you, right, that question that comes, right? Where's my mommy? Do I have a mommy? Why don't I have a mommy? Would make sense if that question directly came up. And it would also really make sense at your kids' ages that it hadn't. But just give me a baseline on where things are from that point of play to that very direct question. It hasn't come yet, but I believe it's imminent. Weeks, if not days. Yeah.

Yeah. And tell me then the things that the two of you do say to your kids about family structure and about your family structure. So we often pause, in fact, in books when traditional family structure comes up and we say, you don't have a mommy, you have a daddy and a papa who love each other.

And some families have a mommy and a daddy, some families have two mothers, some families have two fathers, some families have a single parent. By the way, this is exhausting because it means that every time we pause and I always wonder whether sometimes we should just move on as opposed to having a whole spiel on family structure. But we will pause there and keep going. We have recently added references to Jeannie, our wonderful carrier, who

whom they met multiple times she was in New York last summer and they understand that they were in Ginny's tummy and I and I think Jeremiah as well always add that but Ginny is not your mother and we move on but that's a lot right that's a lot of information every time as I said sometimes exhausting because you just want to read a book yeah and go through your bedtime routine um

But they've heard those words and fully understand that it's not just one family structure model.

So let me just say right away, that's amazing. That's amazing how much you've talked about. You guys have set such a strong foundation for ongoing conversations, right? Because that's something I think is just really important to be prepared for. I would say this to any family about anything complicated. These aren't one-time talks, right? It's not like a one-time birds and the bees to talk about sex. It's not like a one-time conversation about sex.

not having a mom. And you guys have really set a foundation. A couple of quick things. Number one, let me just give you permission to read the book and move on. Like, I definitely think that you should allow yourselves to do that for you and your kid's sake, right? No matter what's going on in our life, nobody wants all the time for that thing to be highlighted. So the next time you're reading a book and it's like, and mommy and daddy took their child to the playground, allow yourself to be like, eh,

Next page. Okay. Right. And moving on. Right. Just, you guys just got some time back. You're welcome. Okay. So that's number one.

Number two, what I'm hearing from you, and it might not be true, is that most of the time you talk about these things is in the context of like reading a book or something that has a very traditional family structure, in which case you kind of add some dissonance or some color to it. Not as much like we're around the dinner table talking about something, there's no book, and we're just proactively mentioning something. Before I have a point about that, is that accurate? Yep, that's accurate. That is accurate. Okay.

And actually, that's something I'd really recommend because it also will give you so much more free reign for these moments where it comes up in a book or in a movie. So what might that look like? Well, let me first say that these conversations that I imagine families having with their kids or you two having with your kids, conversation is probably the wrong word. These things will take like 30 seconds. And after you say them, your kids will say, okay, can I have my ice cream now? Like, can I just have my ice cream now? That's what they'll say.

And then we often think like, oh, that was a waste of time. It was not. Like you said, these are complicated ideas that they need exposure to while they still don't have the sophistication to fully understand. We don't wait for them to have the sophistication to understand because by that time, if it's the first time you're talking about it, kids feel like, what the heck? But as we

we're giving exposure, we have to understand that they're just allowing it to kind of percolate and they want to move on with their day. So when I talk about a conversation at your dinner table, remember, this is a 30-second conversation where one of you is saying something, maybe the other one, and then that's the whole thing. So what might that sound like? It might sound something like this. You know, you don't have to think about it. Think about families. Families is an interesting thing.

There's no one way to be a family, although a lot of times people show a family in one way, right? And one of the things we just want to mention to you is in our family, there are two dads. Maybe you're like, I know, Dad, I know. But I just want to say there's two dads and two

there's you. And we love each other, and we're close. And just like any other family, we're going to argue sometimes. We're going to talk about things. We're going to say sorry. We're going to play games. That's what our family is like. You're going to see a lot of families in books and in movies that have a mom and a dad. And whenever that happens, it might feel like, oh,

That's not my family. Oh, that's not my family. And we can always talk about those moments. We can also not. But anyway, what do you want for your ice cream? Like, that's the conversation. That's the whole thing. There's something about doing it proactively and

That normalizes it even more as part of day-to-day conversation as opposed to only when it comes up. So tell me what that would feel like to do. Yeah, that sounds great. And we've never thought about proactively talking about it, which is, I think, a great suggestion. My follow-up will be,

Do we take it a step further, which is to explain how babies are made? Because of course, in our case, are two conversations that almost collapse into one another. Completely. So great question. So when you say have this conversation, I would then use your kids as a guide for what to happen next. If they do go into, Papa, you're being annoying. Just get me that water. Then that's their way of saying this is enough for now. Let me digest this.

If a child says, but I, you know, I don't know, but what about Jeannie? Didn't you say Jeannie? Didn't, you know, then they're saying, I have not reached the level of information in this conversation that I would need to be able to ask you for my ice cream and move on, right? And so I think you can really...

wait and trust and trust that this is not your only opportunity. Most complicated conversations, even as adults, have to happen in parts, right? And you can use your child as a guide. There's something I find actually very relieving about that. Like, oh, I don't need to know. Like, I don't need to know how far I'm going to go in this conversation. Good, because I don't know. But I can kind of wait and trust myself and my child to figure this out.

Because I think you're right. There's another conversation that I do think would be another good conversation to have proactively, but not necessarily at the same time, which is, you know what's interesting? Families. Families are different than making babies. Sometimes the people who make babies are the same people as the parents in a family. Like your friend Mila. I'm making this up, right? They, you know, you could give an example just to ground it.

Those parents made Mila together, and they're her parents, and they're a family. That's interesting, right? And sometimes a family, it's a little different than the people who made the baby. And it's actually just important for us to start talking about it and for you to know that that's the situation we are in, right? And then I think, yes, the biology of it matters, right?

For now, right, we still need egg and sperm to create the baby. And so...

there's implications of that, right? And talking to your kids about that, demystifying it, yeah, it is really important because sometimes we get caught up in, my two-year-old, my three-year-old doesn't need to know about sex. Like, right? It's not sex. And your two and three-year-old doesn't care about sex. They don't understand sex. But your two-year-old, your three-year-old, your four-year-old, your five-year-old, however old our kids are, their job is to figure out how the world works,

That's their job. That's what we want them to do if they're doing a good job. And so the questions they have and the confusion, especially if their family structure is one, that might lead to more questions. Not in a bad way, just in a, whoa, wait, wait. Okay, well, how did I get here? We want to be talking about that with our kid because then they can actually understand more things. And the more they understand, the safer they feel.

That's very helpful. Would you even broaden the conversation to other types of diversity? Or keep it, if the question is, mommy, daddy, keep it simple, mommy, daddy, or do you shoehorn diversity

race, nationality. Sometimes, you know, I should tell you when we talk about mommy and daddy, sometimes I add, well, you know, we are French and American and other families are all American. Others are all Italian. Others are Indian and German. But I wonder whether maybe that was almost a diversion into another topic. You know what strikes me about the two of you? And I mean this in the most loving way. You want to do so well by your kids. You do. And that's amazing.

amazing. That is amazing. And that says so much about you. And I don't think there's a right or wrong way. But again, I think you can give yourself permission to

to not put it all in one conversation, right? It reminds me of someone who was asking about, they're like, I want to talk to my kids about how babies are made. I think it's one of the things I want to do really differently than my parents did with me. I think it's part of de-shaming your body and understanding sexuality before you're a teenager and everything's awkward. And they're like, so in the first conversation, here's what I want to talk about. And they were talking about

you know, a penis, a vagina. They were talking about IVF. They were talking about donors. And I was like, look, I think it's amazing you want to talk about all this. And it doesn't have to be a specific order of operations. But if you're talking about your three-year-old all at once, understanding all of those things, I'm pretty sure a three-year-old's going to be like, I don't understand any of those things now. Right? So do I think that it's really...

normalizing and helpful and modern and wonderful for kids to know that you can make babies in other ways than a penis and a vagina. Yes. And with my kids, they know all those things. Do I think very practically talking about everything you want to talk to your kid about in one sitting?

is helpful? I don't. And I think the way I tell myself is I trust myself. I trust myself as a parent, and I trust myself and my kid's development and time to know that I don't have to prove to myself that everything happens in one conversation to know my values and know the things I'll eventually talk to my kid about. So if your child is processing, two dads, wait, wait, wait, two dads, and I'm not saying this is the case, but it could be for some families,

Everyone else I know has a mom and a dad. That might not be the case for you, but for some people listening, that might be the case. That's a big piece of information. It's also important to understand racial diversity, to understand nationality, to understand disabilities. I do think those conversations should be had. I just think we want to do that in a way that a kid can actually digest it.

right? Which probably requires some restraint. So again, if it feels natural, yeah, we have two dads just like your friend Mila, right? That's really interesting. Her mom is in a wheelchair and her dad is not in a wheelchair. Who else in your class who has a mom in a wheelchair? Just like I don't know anyone else in your class who has two dads. That's interesting. Families can really look different. Could I see that being useful? Sure. But also, if you just want to tell yourself, hey,

You know, Jeremiah, today we're just doing the two-dad thing. That does not make us bigoted. That does not make us bad. That just makes us centering on the exact thing our kid needs to hear today. Make sense? Yeah, absolutely. Yes. And then, look, in terms of naming the surrogate, and you have an egg donor and a surrogate. Those are two different people. Is that correct? Right. And both of those things at some point, right? Yeah.

I do think are really helpful. And you can use proactive conversations to talk about that. You can see how it goes talking about some things and then watching your kids' questions, right? I'm going to say something that's seemingly conflictual, but I do believe both sides of it. So I guess it's like a two things are true. I do believe we have to own proactively kind of having baseline conversations with kids that we can't just wait for kids to come to us and ask.

At the same time, when kids do ask, what they're saying is, I already have enough information inside to formulate a question about this topic. Because let's say, Jeremiah, I don't know what you do, but if I told you on the street I met you and I was like, I am a molecular physicist. Ask me a question about what I do. I'm sure you're curious.

Maybe you're like, Becky, I have no idea. I don't know anything about, do you know anything about molecular physiology? Exactly. I don't even know if that's a real thing. Probably someone listening to me is like, that doesn't even exist. Okay. But that's my point. You'd be like, I don't even know. I can't even come up with a question. But if I told you I did something similar to what you do, you'd probably have a lot of questions.

asking a question demonstrates a baseline knowledge. So when kids ask questions like, oh, well, my friend Mila, and this can happen, okay, and I'm just going to go for it, so bear with me. My friend Mila on the bus told me a baby is made when a penis enters into a vagina. So did one of your penises enter into Jeannie's vagina? And you're like, what?

the heck just happened to my life, okay? Like, I was not prepared for this moment on the walk to church, okay? Like, what is going on, right? Which, like, kids will, and they don't mean it provocatively. They're just trying to figure out how the world works. You might be tempted to say, you're five years old. Like, we'll talk about this when you're older. But all that's happening to a kid is they're saying, well, I've already developed enough baseline knowledge, not from you, but from a kid on the bus, to

to ask a question. So really now, Dad, really now, Papa, your only choices are, are you going to meet that knowledge and curiosity with connection and an answer, or are you going to leave me alone with it, which leaves me more confused and feeling ashamed for answering the question, right? And so, so many times, I live in New York City, too. My kids see things on the street. They ask me all types of questions where I've been like, you're three years old. Like, are we really talking about this? My five-year-old found a condom on the subway.

and could read at the time, and asked me if he could have this Magnum candy, which looks different than the Magnum ice cream bar he's used to seeing. That happened on a crowded subway when unfortunately we had a 45-minute ride. So it was like, well, here we are. I was like, I wasn't going in being like, you know, I'm going to talk to my five-year-old about condoms. And by the way, you can't talk about a condom without talking about sex, right? And I'm not one to cut off. So I was like,

You know, everyone on the subway was looking at me being like, oh, I'm staying on this subway car. This is going to be a good one. And we did. We talked about it. It was right there in front of me, right? Because my choice was leave him alone and make him feel like he can't come to me with his questions in general or de-shame the situation and be a little bit of a cycle breaker and say, hey, you're five. You're just one and no information. And you know what? I can give you that if I can push through my awkwardness.

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So, I'm thinking about your other question about kind of mater—I don't know, maybe it's not this. Is it maternal figures or the role of a woman if you have two dads? You know, the thing I referred to before around maybe reframing this question, and I think it's worth doing before we answer the question, is just almost like deconstructing this idea of, like, you have two loving parents versus—

a kid needs a mom or a woman or, right? What, I'd love to hear a little bit more from you. Not because the, I'm not trying to say the answer is, it's true. A woman would be unnecessary if you have two loving dads. I'm not taking a side on either, you know, on that idea. But how do you see it? Like, what is, what are your thoughts? What are your fears? What are your concerns around, like, there might be times when my child really needs a woman, a quote, maternal figure in their life? Yeah, I think, well, the,

Right, where it probably is sort of a deeper fear on some level that I'm depriving our children of something. When I know in my heart that two loving parents who are so devoted to them, they're lucky to have that with us. I do know that. And I don't think I'm depriving them, but I guess there's this sort of underlying fear that I don't address often about how can I address if there is something lacking in their lives, how do I address that? And in this case, is it that

there isn't a woman every day there for them. And there are strong women, as I said, in their lives, but I want them to have those, an avenue that feels very open to them to, and this is my, this is our daughter when she comes to her own realization of sexuality, right? Like I I'll read every book I can about that. Right. I am, I will be ready. I feel, but there's, you know, I can't tell her like from my own experience of sexuality, um,

I can't guide her from that, right? From a place of my own experience. Yeah. And I would say, Jeremiah, like, yes and no, right? Like, there's aspects of, you know, puberty, of sexuality that certainly she will experience things in her body that you have never gone through, right? That is for sure.

And she'll experience things in her body that you have gone through. Awkwardness, discomfort. Oh my goodness, what is this? This is happening earlier to me than other people. This is happening to me later than other people. I'm not sure how to live in my body right now. I'm not sure how to feel right now. Those are very human experiences around puberty. That is not to say she might not say to you at some point, I need a woman to, you know, I don't know, what is this?

What are my, what was happening to my nipples? Or, you know, what is this whole period thing? I just want to know from someone who's, you know, had one, right? That could definitely happen. I just think it's important to hold at once, right? Your ability to be a support and a holding space and a listener to her.

And the potential actually for all of our kids to come to us and kind of say some version of, I need something from someone that I'm not getting from you. And I think that's actually really universal. What the two of you can do that maybe most parents don't do early on because there's something more concrete, like might you want a female figure in your life, right? Where if there is a woman and a man raising a kid together,

You know, it's almost like, well, we've checked those boxes, so what else could our kids need, right? So you almost have a leg up here. And what I think is this really beautiful opportunity you have when your kids are getting older is, you know, one of the things that's really important to us as a family is you just always let us know when you need something that we're not giving you.

Right? And as you play baseball, you might want to talk to someone who was, you know, a baseball player in high school. You know, I'm making this up. And as you get older, you might want to talk to a woman about things. And as you get older and you realize you, you know, really love art and the rest of us are really more into sports, you might want to talk to someone who also grew up feeling a little different in their family. And I just want to let you know, we know that we love you and we are there for you. And we also know

No matter who your parents are, parents can never be everything. And we just always hope you come to us when we're not giving you what you need. And I just know we're going to figure those situations out together. Tell me your thoughts about that. Beautifully put. Yeah, I think it's a conversation we should have with them. And I guess it's not too early. You know, I think any time...

We just want to, I want to be everything for them, right? And I know that I can't. So telling them, you know, I'm here for you. We're here for you. And if you need someone else, let us know. We're here to help you find that person. Yeah. And maybe that sounds bold, but like, I don't want to be everything for my kids. Like, I really don't.

For so many reasons. Number one, that feels, I don't know, it feels like really tough on me. It seems like, oh, I better like get to work, you know? I also, I don't because I want to leave room for me to be something for myself and for me to be something to my husband and my friends.

And I don't because I feel like the model of a relationship we develop with our kid becomes internalized as what love is and therefore what to expect as they grow up and find romantic partners. Even, and I always like take a deep breath because it's heavy when you think about it, it even really impacts who they end up being attracted to later on because they tend to be attracted to people who fit into the model of a relationship they had in their earliest loving relationships. And

You know, I don't want my kids when they're like 25 to be like, who out there is everything to me? Who can fulfill all of my needs? I mean, Pierre and Jeremiah, like, I don't know. Do you guys do that for each other? Are you like that? Pierre, no? Not so much? No, you're right. You're right. And going back to your previous point, we're making an assumption that a mother...

We'll provide stuff that we can't provide. And conversely, we're making the assumption that being men and being fathers, we will check all the boxes. And I don't know, we'll take them to sports every Sunday morning. I have no interest in going to soccer every Sunday morning. So it works both ways. We might not give everything that a man is supposed to give. And conversely, we might provide lots of love that you will associate more with a mother. Yeah. And...

Like, I guess I think, like, that's a massive opportunity you have where, yes, that's going to lead them. The more they know that it's okay to come to you saying, like, you're not giving me what I need.

then they're going to find that female figure if they need it. But they're also going to find that mentor, you know, in the career they want that the two of you know nothing about because they don't feel like they're like upsetting you or insulting you or insinuating you're not good enough. It's a huge burden on a kid when they feel like a parent needs to be everything. It's a burden they have to carry, actually, right? And I think this is where I see your questions together actually really kind of having a lot of overlap.

Right? Because I think a lot about how we respond to kids' questions when those questions are a little bit injurious to us or make us feel awkward. So when a kid says, why don't I have a mommy? I kind of feel like, oh, right? And I think there's a lot of focus on like, what do I say back? What's the script? What's the script? And we can come up with that together. You can come up with it. But I actually think more important than what you say, your kid is going to remember how you responded.

Because what they're really encoding in their body is, is it okay for me to ask questions that matter to me and might feel uncomfortable to other people? Is it okay for me to ask questions that don't have easy answers? Is it okay for me to ask a question that's never really been talked about in our house before? Which is why I feel like the best script is, I'm so glad you're asking me that question. Wow, that was really on your mind and you knew it was okay to come to me and ask that question.

wow, this is really important and I'm really glad we get the opportunity to talk about this. I find myself wanting to say more, but another part of me says to pause. Tell me what you think about that. Yeah, just acknowledging the fact that this is a question as opposed to brushing it off and saying, well, what are you talking about? You have two dads. Move on and you should not be concerned about it. Just acknowledging that this is not a traditional structure. So having a question is important

Perfectly justified. Yeah. And, you know, when your kids ask you, right, where's my mom? Why don't I have a mom? Right. What their body is really going to remember is the next time I have a question that's a little awkward and uncomfortable.

can I go to Papa? Can I go to Dad? Right? Because so often I hear from parents with older kids, like, I want my kids to talk to me about drugs. I want them to talk about social media. I want them to talk about this relationship they're in. If my kid was ever in a relationship with someone who wasn't treating them well, I would want them to come to me. I would, I really would. But look, we can repair

a relationship at any point. If you haven't really talked to your kids about tricky topics until they're 16 and you want that, we 100% can help that happen. And, and, it's work and it takes time. Whether kids when they're teenagers and in their 20s talk to their parents about topics that are awkward and tricky and uncomfortable, hums from how their parents responded

to tricky and uncomfortable topics when they were younger, which aren't the same topics. No four-year-old I know goes to their dad and says, you know, I'm thinking about going to a party where there's alcohol and marijuana. Like, no four-year-old I know is saying that. But when a four-year-old says, I don't have a mom,

That is the exact same circuit. How that question is responded to is the exact same circuit as when they're 16 and they're thinking, "My boyfriend's been saying some really mean things to me. Should I talk to my dad about that?" Or, "I really feel like I need a woman to understand what's happening to my body." In some ways, the way we make our kids comfortable with asking us tricky questions,

is way more important than just saying to them over the years, here, go spend time with Aunt Sally. She's a woman. You guys should develop a relationship, right? Because the point is we want our kids to know that we can give them access to people who aren't us. But that comes from their ability to speak up for themselves and potentially even offend us. So going back to that moment of play, right? Maybe we can kind of end in a way going back to that beginning, right? So, oh, this person's hurt. She needs her mom.

I, again, just want to give you permission to just go with it. I think oftentimes we think we have to like, oh, but she also could go for her dad, right? Because dads comfort kids, right? Like we take them out. You can also just open that up because in a way you're also saying like, it's okay to have that storyline. You don't need to change it for me. Oh, she needs to go to her mom. Why? Why? Oh, her mom's going to give her a big hug.

Oh, it's so nice to have a mom you could go to for a big hug. And then I could see opening it up a little more. It is so important for kids to have parents who can comfort them when they're hurt. I totally get that. And in a way, I've shifted things a tiny bit. I've also allowed it.

I relieve myself of the need to like open up a book and be like, but look, also they have two dads in this book, right? I totally get it. And again, maybe trust.

that like you've done something really powerful and trusting that it all also doesn't have to happen in that exact moment. That's super helpful. By the way, I should mention that we're only talking about our daughter because in a typical fashion, the daughter is developing a little faster. And so she came up first with those questions the same way that, you know, she walked first and talked first and, you know, and used the potty first. But our son is next.

Well, you two are fabulous to talk with and clearly like such thoughtful, amazing parents. Your kids are so lucky to have you. And I always love updates. So maybe reach back out. Let us know how things go. And maybe I'll run to you on the street in New York City or maybe we'll see each other in a subway car with a Magnum condom on the ground. You never know. I'll keep my eye out. Thanks for listening.

To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com slash podcast. You could also write me at podcast at goodinside.com. Parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world.

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Good Inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsom at Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhi, Julia Knatt, and Kristen Muller. I would also like to thank Erica Belsky, Mary Panico, Ashley Valenzuela, and the rest of the Good Inside team. And one last thing before I let you go. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves...

Even as I struggle, even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain good inside.