"For The Night" (w/ Charli XCX) 01:11:57

- Bo, listen, vacation, it's something you gotta get right. - I have never agreed with you more. And I've had so many wonderful trips with you in the past. I remember one of our fantastic Airbnb trips upstate. We got this four bedroom Airbnb, little cabin,

We had like a whole acre to waltz around in. It was so much fun and a gorgeous kitchen, remember? I do remember. That ended up being an iconic trip. But why is Airbnb better than a hotel? First of all, more space. Second, more bathrooms because sharing a bathroom, I know it's not our favorite thing to do. Also, more common area spaces to hang out together. Airbnbs can have things like a private movie room or game room. Doing an Airbnb may also get you access to a better location. Airbnb, it's just for you and me. Fee!

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Look, man. Oh, I see. Bowen, look over there. Wow, is that culture? Yes. Las Culturistas. Ding dong. Las Culturistas calling. We're off to the races here today. We've ate some pret. British culture. British culture. More to come. I will say, I'm a little upset about how much almond milk is in this. Okay, if the cameras are picking this up, listeners at home who can't see this, this is Dunkin' Donuts level 10.

chicanery. It's pure, it's milk with a little bit of iced coffee in it. I was going to use the word chicanery too for the record. And I just want to say, I wouldn't even want to walk down the street and people think that I have to do coffee like this. Like, this is just more almond milk than anything. Can I get an amen up in here in the words of RuPaul? This is just, there's also like a weird pallid color to it. It doesn't have what I would call a healthy looking color. And you guys all feel me out there. You want coffee, not milk. It looks like

Thank you, Becca. It looks like chocolate milk, I was going to say. Nesquik rabbit ran amok. Last I checked, I wasn't eight years old in my basement. Bitch. Where I would drink chocolate milk on the regular.

- What's your merch story, Matt? Just with like an artist that you love. - My merch story? - I'm wearing merch. I'm being vulnerable, I'm wearing merch right now. - Bowen is in Charlie merch and by the way, it's very cute merch, which I say as a compliment to you, the wearer and you, the seller. My merch story is I'm also currently wearing merch. - For drive-away dolls. - This is Focus Features sent us this merch and I said, "That's cute and I will wear it on the thing." I didn't know they were gonna do this. They sent it to us. And after seeing the movie "Challengers,"

I thought threesome culture is sort of in. I do think it's the year of the threesome. Of MMF. Of MMF threesome. And so I'm just sort of encouraging that here on the podcast today. I hope you receive. Who knows what happens tonight or in the episode. I don't think it will be an MMF threesome. We've got MMF here. Now, would you say that like if between, let's say like MMF, two dicks, one dick.

one badge, right? Sure, sure. Let's just go in with that parameter. Yeah. I might get so like, dick confused that I'm like, yeah, of course there's a vagina. Listen, all I know is- I'm like, it's not shocking to me. You can't think about it too hard. I think when it comes to threesomes, you have to just take it moment by moment. Yeah, yeah. I've had two in my life. Uh-huh. And-

Getting out of my way was important. No, I've had three. So the first one, I was very in my own way the entire time. And I was like, I am doing this with more than one person. And it's a little bit of a brain teaser. And then the second you just let that go and you have a wonderful time. You know what happened to me the first time? What?

I was facing forward, facing someone. Great. True north. And it was true north. And then jump scare behind me. Literally like, oh! Like someone stuck it in? They didn't stick it in. They just kind of

kind of nestled behind me and I was like, oh, I forgot. The crazy thing is when you're facing True North and sort of giving that, aka you're a giving partner, and then all of a sudden you feel the third kind of really come through the back and you're like, I'm not in that zone right now. I need to know. So let's just all communicate and take it moment by moment, everyone. And that's sort of our treatise. Watch the challengers if you want a little educational video. But again, you never see any threesome sex in challengers. You don't see any penetration.

Anyway. What's penetrated me is the new album. It's a really penetrative album. Emotionally penetrative, obviously sonically and physically penetrative in the best way, in a way that I invite and I'm open wide for. Angels, if you're listening, this might be offensive to the guests.

If you mourn XTX World the way that some of us out here do, this album is going to give you everything you want and more. You're about to party. We're about to party. But you're also about to feel, and this is what I love about our guest, and it's just so sort of singular and iconic, is like,

What I love is like, you know, like emotional pop music. And you always get our guest's perspective, her POV. It's always interesting and specific, no matter what it is. I was telling Bowen, like when we were just at Pret-a-Manger, where we have all of our good conversations, I'm a huge fan of our guest ballads. You're a ballad girl. Like I'm a ballad girl. And like you give that. And I'm just so excited. The new album Brat is coming out June 7th. June 7th. She's doing the Brat tour.

And then she's going to the Sweat Tour with Troye Sivan. Little known artist, Troye Sivan. Yeah. So she's doing Brat Sweat Brat. Why are you laughing? It's just so funny that I'm just silent. That you're just sitting there. I'm like, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do. Don't you worry. One, two, three. Charlie Axton!

That was so fun just listening to you guys gab away. We're gabbers. We can say the same thing about what you gab and sing about on your records. We're having fun too. Oh, good. You are the most fun. You do truly intrinsically understand how to make us have fun. Oh, that's so nice.

- We were having fun on the way in. You've got a big day. - Got a big day. - We're recording this. We're gonna release it closer to the album release, but you're going on Seth with Troy. - Yeah. - And then Watch What Happens Live also with Troy. - Are you on with the housewife? Do you know? - No, I'm so sad about that. - You're just on solo? - No, it's another man. - Okay. - I couldn't tell you who it is. - Yeah, exactly. - And I love that we will find out later who it is when the episode airs and we'll be like, oh, that's who. - And I'll be like, it's such a fad.

Summer House, Martha's Vineyard. I love that show. Exactly, exactly, exactly. No, I don't know. I think his name's Joe. Joe. Joe Biden. He sounds great. Joe Biden. It's you and Joe Biden. And honestly, he's going to ask you to be VP. Yeah, it's going to be amazing. They're going to really burn it down.

- Yeah. - We were talking here about last time you were on, you were not as versed in the Bravo verse. - True. - And now you are all in on Salt Lake City. - Exactly. - And you asked us a really important question, which was, you wanna ask us again? - Yeah, my question for you both is, are you pro Monica or pro?

Are you anti-Monica? Anti, sorry. No, no, no, that's okay. The way we answered was... Auntie Monica. We're Auntie Monica. We were... Don't make fun of our guest accent. No, I say auntie as well. We were... So my answer was in the beginning when it all went down, we were very anti. We were like, get her off! Like none of the women want to film with her. Like she is not allowed anywhere near them. And then now that they announced that she is no longer there, we're like...

oh, it's going to miss something. It's a travesty. My thing is like, I just want to watch a show where everyone speaks to each other because it gets boring when you have a cast that's like, I'm not talking to her. You'll see once you branch out to other franchises, it's like when a cast is like not...

as a group, it's bad. And they were also scorched earth with Monica at the end, like unwilling to speak to her. Can you give thoughts on Mary Cosby from your Charlie perspective? I mean, this woman is just,

She's on the album. She's going to be on a tap. Yeah. The full remix record is just her. It's just Mary. She is... I mean, I don't even know where you begin. Right. It's like, I love her and I hate her. Sure. But do we all agree? I love her and I hate her. You love her and you hate her? No, that's totally fair. My friend...

Saw her at Sunset Tower. Oh, wow. Sheek, sheek place. And apparently she was really rude to her. Oh, that tracks 100 million percent. She was like, my friend was like, oh, can I sit here at the bar? And she was like, no. And then my friend was like, do you have someone coming? And she was like, yeah. And then obviously no one came. And it was just for her bag. Oh, my God, Mary. But then at the same time, I'm like, legend. Yeah, legend. Let her do what she wants. The inbred?

I was going to say, and then she called your friend inbred or something. I'm sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the inbred comment followed up with Heather asking her, did you really call me inbred? And she goes, I did. I did. Right.

Like, yeah, you dumb bitch, I did. Do you realize that kind of thing? I do. I do. And then when they like went through it at the reunion too, it was so bizarre because Heather was kind of just like threw up her hands and was like, listen, I respect that she said it. She speaks her truth. It's like, can you please just swing one fist? Heather, come on. Do we all agree though? They talk to her like she's,

five years old. Either she's a mental patient, which she might be, and like, she's a fiver. They're afraid of her. They're afraid. I mean, she gets a lot of free passes. Yeah. You know? Because, well, that was funny when she was on Watch What Happens Live, like they asked her a question, like, why'd you come back? And she fully just goes, to help you guys out. Ugh. And I said, Matt,

- But again, I mean, love. - Love. - Love. - 'Cause you wanna know why there's like not a thirsty bone in her body or like a bothered bone in her body? Because you can tell she doesn't really get it. So she's just like gonna show up and say whatever the fuck it is. The rumor is now that she called Lisa Barlow's youngest son the R word. That is the rumor that's happening for next season.

on that. I see. I see. I can imagine it happening. You can imagine it happening. Yeah. I can imagine it happening. I'm fascinated by...

Yes. And the choices. And the choices. Many colors, many patterns. It's like she got dressed in the dark five times in a row. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then she just went out with all of it on. Right. And isn't it funny that she's like the fashion girl? She's the fashion girl. I mean, the thing is, she's going to come for us. So are you ready? No. Like if she hears this, she's coming for us. I wonder. I don't think she cares. I don't think she cares what we think. Hmm.

Yeah, maybe. That would be a chic feud for you though. Charlie XCX and Mary M. Cosby. That's what no one would ever see coming. No, it would be so good. It would be so good. I'm,

pro Monica. You're pro Monica. That's great. I just want to pivot back to that. I'm pro Monica. And you said to us, you know, what she did wasn't really that bad. And we agree, but it would be like if Troy ran a troll account for like an anti-Charlie Troy. Like everyone leave after my set. But in

But is, was she, okay, here's the thing. I'm pretty like flag in the sand on like I'm pro Monica. Yeah. But I haven't actually done much research into reality Vontaze. So I'm basing that on nothing. Yeah. But I've heard from friends who I trust dearly that she wasn't really like...

talking shit about the women. So she was, it was really more of a Jen Shah thing. Yeah, and obviously that was her narrative on the show, which I was a little bit like, okay. Yeah, yeah. But you know, God love her, but I was like, surely she's using that a little bit. But my reliable friends say that was the case, that she wasn't really talking about the women. I believe you're reliable friends. So then I'm just like, also, I'm like, guys, you're on Housewives. Yeah. You know what it was though? You know. She, she, she.

Casual black. 100%. She ran out of steam when it came to defending herself and explaining it. Like, I felt like she sort of, like, threw up the white flag, as it were, when it was go time. It was like, okay, this is the reunion. Explain what it was and what exonerates you about this. And it felt like she kind of just took it because she got confused and started to lean into the villain narrative. Right. Thinking that's what people would want when it was like,

No, what you want is to stay on the show and they won't film with you unless you can get them on board. And then I think she was like gearing up to bring out that burn book prop. Like she was like prop focus. Ooh, that was rough and a half. The burn book didn't land. No, no. That all went a bit awry, didn't it? I think so. Yeah. You've got a Mean Girls track on your album. I have. I love this song. Love it. Oh, thank you.

Because it really is for that girl. Thank you. And for gays that are trying to be that girl that day. Yeah. You know what's interesting about that song is... I'm going to take these off. Do I have marks there? No, you don't. Okay, excellent. So the thing is about the Mean Girls song on my album is that it's kind of like... A fascination with women like that in the culture. Yeah. Oh, you know what? I was actually...

totally in my brain talking about a different song on my record. No, now I remember we were talking about Mean Girls. Yeah, sorry. No, that really is just about like being a bitch. Yeah. Which we love. Which we love. Which we love. What song were you thinking of? Sorry, I was thinking, sorry, I was thinking about Girls So Confusing. Yeah, okay. I have questions about this. And, okay, you don't have to. I wonder if you have answers. I think you've already...

And look, we're not entitled to any information. Okay? Who's this about? No. Miriam Cosby. Totally. No, you know, I haven't. This is early. Yes. Like, this is the first time I've spoken about this song. You guys are the first people to ask me. So I haven't quite decided whether I'm revealing. Reveal, yeah. No problem. When I wrote it, I was like, I'm revealing. Yeah. But now, you know, now the time is here. I'm like, oh, I'm revealing.

Do you think I should reveal? Not for your benefit, just in general. I think that whatever is going to... I feel like at some point, yeah, in 30 years... My thing is people are going to guess. I feel like you probably both have an accurate guess. And I'm not going to ask you to say it out loud because you'll tell by my face. But afterwards I'm going to ask. It's probably that person. Say it with your eyes.

I think it's, yeah. Okay, okay. Now, I think... I have the same feelings on this person. I have to explain that song. Yes, yes, yes. Please, please, please. So the thing is, it's like, I think we live in this world of pop music right now where women are like...

I support other women. I love women. I'm a feminist. And that's great. Like, love that. But there's artifice to it. It's a lot. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I don't think that you become a bad feminist if you maybe don't see eye to eye with every single woman. That's just like not...

the nature of human beings. You know, there is a competitiveness between us. There is envy. There is camaraderie. There is, you know, all of these different like dynamics. And I mean, I feel that working in entertainment is,

There is this kind of dance that we all do with each other, whether you're in music, whether you're in your world, like no matter how you identify, there is this dance that everybody's watching each other. Everybody's like posing in the picture like, hey, are we going to the Sly and Sissy?

My collaborator and good friend. Yeah, but then you're also like, I want what they have. And then the next thing you're like, they suck. I killed it today. And this happens, but no one really is like willing to discuss it. But we all probably have our person. Yes. Or maybe a few different people. And I'm sure we are that person for other people. Of course.

I just find that there is this like strange, like unspoken thing that often happens, particularly with women, because there is such a narrative of pitting women against each other within music. And sometimes that's not totally like fabricated. Do you know what I'm saying? Sometimes there is like, what's the phrase? Smoke, whether smoke, like I do feel like that sometimes happens.

does happen and sometimes it's like I don't know everybody's just doing this little like square dance totally well like this idea of like oh women are pitted against each other that shouldn't make you feel any worse or more complicated about the fact that like

It happens. It's not, why is it this red line all of a sudden? You're not supposed to get into any other conflict with any of the peers. It's unrealistic. It's unrealistic. And you're not saying fuck her. You're saying it's confusing when I feel like we got a lot of people saying that we do great stuff together. It feels like the vibe is good. Then I'm confused. It's like, am I okay with who the audience might fill in this spot? Yeah. Well, that's the other thing about it. It's like,

For me, this is like my favorite part of the high artness of music and the low artness of like pop star. Yeah. Discourse. Like I like the marriage of the two and I like that maybe people were getting it wrong, but they're like having fun playing the game. Yeah. Because I think that that brings like kind of this three dimensional world to songs, you know, outside of just like the song's really good. It's like, it's nice to,

plant like theories and ideas and let people like live their kind of Paris Lindsay fantasy with it so it's fun but I also think it does this thing of like with the whole record I'm kind of like doing that in ways it's like holding a mirror to

this kind of culture that we're in right now where everybody is really... I feel like everybody is, like, their moral compass has to be so in check all the time. Right. But it's, like, sometimes it's just, like, fun if it's not. Yeah. And everybody, the listeners, like, your moral compass isn't always, like, bang on. Like, everybody's a little fucked. Yeah. Everybody's, like, a little, like, shady. Everybody has, like, thoughts of all these different things. Right. Like...

Everyone's kind of a bitch sometimes and that's okay. Like it doesn't make you a bad person. It makes you a flawed human being. Yeah, a dynamic person. And we want artists to put that into work too because it like, I mean, I can't stand the morality thing as it applies. But when did pop stars and let's just include and lump in like actors and shit. Like when did they become like moral paragons? Because like at Chateau Marmont, like in the 70s, there would be signs up that said no actors.

It's like we were like, they were like the rowdy fucking like chaotic people. And that's what everyone understood them to be. And it's like, these are not good people. Keep them out. You know what I mean? And like, maybe that's okay. Yeah. I wonder like, it's interesting, this celebrity culture, especially over the past like 10, maybe 15 years has really like changed a lot in that I think niceness became a commodity. Whereas before it,

niceness wasn't cool. Right. You know, it wasn't like cool to be nice. Yeah. And then like suddenly it really was. It was like, oh, well, if you're not nice, like you're dead, you know? But it actually just used to be like really cool to be like cunty and a bitch.

and I feel like we're slowly edging back there but I still think we're in our nice era I still feel like we're in our like everybody has to be so nice all the time and that's like cool if you're like really actually just like chill and nice but sometimes I'm like

I see through this. You see through it. And we all do. Totally. I think everything is too sensitive now to actually hide who you are. Like, you know what I mean? Like, the media is like, if people are watching, they're watching so closely so that you can't really get away with, like, putting on a persona anymore that's, like, really different from who you are because we see so much of it and we're inundated in the discourse and et cetera that, like,

We're ahead of the game that you're playing. Right. Unless you play it like really well. Yeah. Which some people do. Really good team to cover shit up. Yeah. But I feel like, and I mean this on such a complimentary level, you, I feel like you've stuck to your cuntiness the whole, the whole way through. Thank you. Yeah. Well, I appreciate that. It's funny. It's like, I think I can be bitchy, but I'm not.

I don't know that I'm a bitch. Right? That is a big distinction. You know, like, I'm never going to be...

to someone for the sake of it because it's actually, I personally find it a lot harder to be like deliberately like dismissive or mean or whatever. You know what I mean? And don't get me wrong, I'm sure I have my bad days. Like I'm not saying I'm a saint, but I'll also just like tell it how it is. And I think that gets misconstrued as being mean, but it's actually just, I'm just being real because I don't think that,

It's that interesting to...

have this sort of like facade of like it takes a lot of energy you could twist yourself into a fucking knot and what would really we're all gonna die anyways and i'm just like why don't you just like have fun i mean i think this album is kind of like on this front line where a lot of a lot of artists are doing this now where it is like transparency i'm bringing the fourth wall like you're singing about ag and sophie and like for the first time probably right yeah a little way and like yeah

you're being very real about shit. Like you're singing, I don't want to spoil the rest of the album, but like you were singing about things that like are very surprising. And I'm like, oh, I didn't think she would be, she would have a song about like, I think she would have a song about like,

I think, is that, I think about it all the time. Yeah, yeah, the song about babies. Track 14, is that? Yeah. Yeah. Yes, yeah. It is track 14. Well, I just remember because- Track 14. No, no, we got so old. We're analog. Yes. I just remember it goes into the last track and I love the two together because it's such a psych out. Like, it's like you're talking about like really weighing things in the way where you are in life. Like,

now is the time when I should maybe really think about a family if that's what I want like is it okay with you that I think about this like this occupies a lot of space and then the next song is Keys yeah and I was like is this her answering it or is this her having fun or is it both it's not the answer because I definitely I don't think I have an answer um

If you have baby fever, do cocaine is what you're saying. Yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah. All brand deals gone. So that's cool. But no, I don't have an answer, but I think it's an interesting question to muse over because, I mean, do you guys have many friends who have kids? Our female friends are really starting. I mean, like even in the past six to eight months, like four or five of my friends have had their... Yeah. Like one of my friends had her third kid. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Right.

Wow. Is this your friend group? I don't have loads of friends who have kids yet, but I had kind of one like major friend in my life who's a songwriter who had...

a baby and she was kind of the inspiration for this song because I went to her house to visit her in Stockholm with her partner they've been together for like years but they never really were like we're having kids it just kind of happened for them you know and then it was just so crazy going over to their apartment writing songs with them she's wearing the same clothes she always wore the apartment's the same they're exactly the same we're writing songs and

but it's just like everything is different because she has the key to this door that like I'm not even in the same room as yet. Do you know what I mean? You talk about this like it's almost like they now know something you don't know and it's that wanting that like is driving the question in you. Exactly. That's really interesting. Exactly. And it's like you don't, not to say that you can't, you know, get the same sort of level of purpose and intimacy. I'm not saying that, but I just, I think particularly like

With her, for me, I was just like, wow, like we used to be so similar. And now your worldview, even though you're saying all the same things and you're the same person, you're also just like completely different because you have this new perspective that I can't even really begin to understand yet. You know, and it's just strange. But does it not give you some comfort that like she is wearing the same clothes? Yeah, absolutely. No, no, it's totally comforting. But then it's at the same time, it's just like,

am i missing out like and i think for me it drives me to this place of like do i want kids

Will I feel this new lease of life and this whole new world open up if I have kids? Will I feel resentment towards the kid? Will I seamlessly be able to do both things in exactly the way that I want? No, probably not. Unless I like kind of disregard the kid. And that's another thing too. You want to do an amazing job at both. Yeah. And so...

I would also, if I were in that position, I don't, I'll never have children, but if I were really, if it was something that was on my mind, I would worry that it would like harm my passion and like what I know I'm supposed to do. You know what I mean? Like, is it going to change the way that I relate to myself as like this person who like in your case is out there creating and like being this like pop idol and then

I don't know. Like it would, it would change a lot. Like you don't know that you're going to be exactly like your friend wearing the same shit, talking about the same shit. Like for some people, it really changes. But I feel like you have already been through a situation where everything was taken from you in some sense.

with lockdown, like your response to that was like how I'm feeling now. So I feel like if like in a big life change situation like that, you're already kind of, I'm not saying it would happen exactly that way, but you already know that like your response would be to like keep making. True. That's yeah. That's pretty interesting. I never thought of it like that. No. Yeah. Connecting dots.

Bo, listen, vacation is something you got to get right. You can't roll the dice. You have to make sure that it's all together. Everything is where it's supposed to be when you get where you're going on vacation. Can you agree? I have never agreed with you more. And I've

had so many wonderful trips with you in the past. Bowen, I remember one of our favorite trips to Toronto when we shared that Airbnb. Remember that? Airbnb came in the clutch. We were doing our I Don't Think So Honey live in Toronto. We stayed in that amazing Airbnb. We loved it. We had the time of our life. Thanks, Airbnb, still to this day. I remember that Airbnb like it was my own childhood home. Thank you, Airbnb.

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- Last time I saw you was at SNL and at the Good Nights, you were like, "What's going on after?" And I was like, "There's a Horse Meat disco." - And then I almost took you. - Did you go? - No, but I went after. You didn't miss much. We love Horse Meat. - You know this because you do it, but it's...

It's a lot of energy. It's late. It's late. The arsenal is late. It's late. But like, the boiler room set looks fucking hot. No, that was late, but it's... I mean, this is like... Late, late. Because when do you end? One. One, and then like... And then you go to the funny Mexican restaurant. We go... Where was it? Rosa Mexicana. Rosa Mexicana. What is...

Okay. We rotate restaurants. Yeah, go, go, go. Why isn't it... Okay. The same place? Why isn't it just a better place? You know what? You really roll the dice. And I can say this and he can't. But like sometimes I'm like, where are we going? And it's either a fuck yes or a come on. But has it... It has been a fuck yes. I've been to two. Yeah. And they were... I went Rosa Mexicana. Rosa Mexicana was Oscar Isaac. Yeah. Oscar Isaac was the best. And I mean...

I had fun. I had fun. You had a margarita. But it was funny and you described it as a funny restaurant and it is a very funny restaurant. It's hilarious and we love Rosa Mexicana so much. We love them. We love them. We want a table tonight. Brand deal's gone. My brand deal with Rosa Mexicana is gone. But I like the Charlie Famous thing. But surely it's not a budget thing. It kind of is.

It's getting a little sloshed. I know. That's a budget thing. What are you talking about? You need to come back when the party is at La Venue at Saks. It's chic. There's room to walk around. But Charlie famously was the musical guest during the Omicron episode where it was...

it fucking crashed down. Oh, everyone was gone, right? Well, can I say, can I reveal, like on the monitors on Thursday, like all the writers were fucking screaming because it was like, oh my God, it's like Caroline Polachek's here, Christine's here, they're doing new shapes. And then the world missed out on like the three of you being on the same stage on TV doing new shapes. It was...

That was crazy. Tragic. That was crazy. Also, because, yeah, I guess we never did that performance. Oh, fuck. We were on a, did you see a soundcheck? We were on a spinning platform. So cool. And like, I love Caroline and Christine, but my God, that, it was crazy. You guys go crazy on that. It was like, Caroline wanted the platform to spin one way at one speed. Christine wanted it to spin the other way at one speed.

I was like, I don't care which way the fucking platform spins, I just get it going. As long as we decide. Everyone has COVID.

It was just like so stressful. Yeah. It was just like a lot. And then we finally figured out we were feeling so good about it. We're like dancing on the platform. We're not falling over. We like, we fucking killed it. And then we're literally, we were in like, we were getting ready. And then on Saturday? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was in glam. And then Caroline was like, it's not happening. I was like, what do you mean? You're not coming? And she was like, no, it's like, it's... They pulled the plug on it. Yeah. Yeah. Was that what happened? They pulled the plug on it and you were like...

Well, not my meatball sketch. Thank God. Oh, yes. Charlie played a meatball. No, but that was the Oscar Isaac show. Was it? That was the second show. That was the time you came back. Oh, I got a chicken. Chicken. I did some pre-taped sketch. Oh, you were a chicken or a parrot? You were a parrot. Yeah, a parrot. You were a parrot. Yeah. And I was kind of like, oh.

well at least I kept that a little bit oh my god yeah it was like me and Paul it was Paul Rudd right yeah wow that's a good one though to play chicken with Paul Rudd that's so SNL coded yeah it was it's like I went on there and I did sketch comedy yeah I was a chicken I was a chicken and a meatball but then you were but then the second show you did Baby and then what did you do I did Beg For You Beg For You yeah oh my yeah and Rina wasn't there Rina was not there no but um

Speaking of Sunset Tower, Sunset Tower holds a very special place in my heart because that was where I was when Crash came out. The whole album. And I was just me in a room listening to that whole album. Went to the tour. You were fantastic. And I still say that that is the most well-behaved audience. Yeah. Because it's these lovely e-boys and girls who just jump up and down vertical. No one's like...

throwing elbows in the pit. You know what I mean? Everyone like watches their space and they're so well behaved. They're polite. The angels are polite. But with this, do you want them to get a little bit more chaotic? I always want them to get chaotic. Like whenever they, you know, I'm lucky because whenever I bump into like a mass group of angels, they're very like,

Like, sweet. Yeah. You know, they, like, wait in line. Yeah. And they, like, have the lids off their Sharpie. Like, they're organized. Oh, my God. I love it. Yeah. It's never, like, a shit show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I saw this TikTok of Paris Hilton had done, like, a signing. Yeah. And it had got a little hectic. And someone had, like, drawn on her, like, Chanel bag with a Sharpie. And I was just, like, that... I mean...

I'm sure there's like, not in your class. There's lots more where it came from, but that is really like, that's such a bummer. That would never happen with the angels. Not on your blue Blanciaga. No, no,

Do you still put a banana in it? Always. I always travel. I brought a banana here. Left it on the plane. You did. You have my favorite. What's in my bag? Because you have the banana. You have the Laneige. Yes. And you have the Byredo. Is it the true emotion? No, no, no, no. That's, that's, no. What is it? I just... Mixed emotions. Mixed. You and I have the same fragrance. Yeah. I'm wearing...

La Tulipe today La Tulipe is good it's a new I haven't done it before I like it it's a Byredo I like it a new fragrance is a thing yeah like I've switched and it's just like what are you on? I am on De Los Santos from Byredo yeah okay I have that too and I will say Bowen Yang really tried to get me into Sunday Cologne and that was not for me is it Marcella? it's called no no it's Byredo it's Byredo as well it's called Sunday yeah Sunday something Rainy Sunday no that's Marcella I think it's called Sunday Cologne

It's just called Sunday Cologne, guys. It's just Sunday Cologne. But now I found De Los Santos and I actually was wearing it. It had its debut at Coachella on me and I felt very good. By the way, you didn't say me, but I saw you last year. Oh, you did? That went off. People were getting fun rowdy at that. That was fun. How was Coachella this year? Coachella this year was fucking great. But Lana Del Rey makes an appearance in the Mean Girls song. Yes, she does. Because Horrifying

Hot girls listen to Lana Del Rey in the airport. Hot, mean girls listen to Lana Del Rey. It's true. It's true. I feel like any cool, like, genuinely cool girl not only, like, likes Lana Del Rey, but, like, understands, like, the lore of, like, Lana. Yes.

in a really deep way. Yeah. She's so fucking real. Because she's an art figure. She really is something else. She's symbolic. She's symbolic for something. Yeah, right. Yes. When I was hearing that song, I was like, I see this girl. Yeah. Yeah. You see her. Yeah, she like smokes skinny cigarette. And being, being. And she's a little like. Yes, she's a little bit like. She's got a vocal fry. Vocal fry. Vocal fry. But it doesn't feel dated. It feels very good on her. Yeah, absolutely. And I will say being at Coachella around,

75,000 of those girls was a good vibe. Cool. And I wasn't sure about her doing the Friday night because I felt like that should be a party. In my head, I was like, switch Doja and Lana, put Lana on Sunday night, Doja will get everything started. And then now having seen it, I'm like, everything was exactly as it should have been. Everything was perfect. Yes. Did you go? I didn't go. No. He's never been. Never been. Oh. What people do with your music though, I think, like if we're gonna compare Lana heads to like angels and people who like really like love you, I feel like you...

You...

get people to like do the digging of like, oh my God, like it's this, there's this whole album that, you know, like they really start to like dig through the crate. And I think people love to like take your stuff, all the stems, whatever, and then just like rearrange it. And like they have fun with the building blocks that you're giving. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think my music is like intrinsically like for the night. Yes. You know, you can listen to it in the day, you can listen to it in the car, like whatever. But generally it's like,

the best at night time. I remember, like, I saw you at the Wiltern a few years ago, and just, like, what was happening on stage was so great. One of my favorite songs of yours is I Don't Wanna Know. Oh, cool. And, like, I just, like, you had this, like, really cool purple light, just, like, I don't know, just, like, you're not, like, synesthetic, are you? I...

I can tell. Yeah. I can tell. What do you mean? Like someone like got into your face and was like, you're not actually. No, no. I just, it's like one of those things where, you know, like when you do your first interviews and it's like one of the first things you've ever said. Yeah. It follows you. Because people are like, she's synesthetic. Test her. Yeah. But like you actually do experience that. Yeah. And for me, it's like really helpful with writing. Yeah. When I'm writing, I'm like,

this song is purple. Like, and then I'll be like, AG, make the purple stuff. Yes. I wanted to ask you this question about like, when you sit down to write a song, is it like, because it feels like equal parts important and obviously it is, but I guess my question is, is it the sound and like where you're going sonically that dictates what something is going to be about? Or do you come in with an emotion that you need to get out? With this record, it's been very much that I came in with,

what I wanted to say whereas on previous records it's not actually really been like this with this record it's been so lyrically led yeah like I've been like I wanna write a song about my kind of sticky relationship with my mum and dad which was Apple or like I wanna write the song about not being sure if I wanna have kids or you know like it's been very like

It's there. It's in my head. Like Mean Girls, kind of like piecing that around like a few different girls I know and thinking about like qualities that they have and putting that in a song. 360. Love. So fucking good. And your bookends are, they're perfect. Thanks. Yeah. And with that, it was very like, okay, I want to talk about me like being like a sonic reference for people, but through the like lens of,

And Julia kind of being the like New York, like it girl, street fashion girl that everybody's referencing, you know? Julia Fox meaning. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was like very specific. And then kind of fun to build out these like pop songs that hopefully like a lot of people can relate to, but they're coming from like quite a specific idea and place. And why do you think it didn't happen with the other albums? It just like wasn't the way it was. I think...

I was writing very much like the way I would write on previous records. We would build a track and then I would get on the microphone and literally be like...

And then figure out the lyrics later. And then I would figure out the lyrics that fit the vowel sounds I was kind of making. So there was already this sort of like map of sound that, you know, I was trying to fit words to. You're saying this is lyrically led. Lyrically led and not really focusing too much on rhyme or worrying about like what fits within a stanza or anything like that, you know. So actually just I was really able to kind of just...

write lyrics that I would actually say in a conversation rather than crafting them into this sort of like

version of what I would say. And even like melodically in the way that like the song forms around us, like even with Girl So Confusing, it's girl. You know what I mean? Like there's something there that's the melody, like the way you really say it. Like, I want to do this. You know what I mean? It's just like, it feels like it's born out of something you want to say this time and to hear that you say that is, it works. But back on this thing of like, I think this is like extremely, like,

transparent in the way and it is like holding up this mirror because like the Rorschach test of this album is the cover and everyone having all these opinions about like the cover right and I think you kind of threw it back at people in a nice way where you're like no this is actually like this completely reveals what you think like a pop girl should appear and how they should put out their work and stuff like that which I think is great but I think with the content of the album it's more about like

Guys, like, I think about, like, crazy dark shit about, like, my career. I'm not putting words in your mouth, but it's like, I think it is your most vulnerable album because you are being very honest about, like, how you regard yourself in a way that would have never occurred to me. You know what I mean? Right, right. Like, there are allusions to, like, your career being in this in-between. And I'm like, oh, like, six albums in. Like, you feel that way. Yeah, totally. Well, I just, it's, I think there aren't many people who...

have a path that I have. There are some, Robin being one. And I think that's why there's a lot of like synergy between the two of us. But, you know, somebody who had, speaking about Robin now, huge commercial success. Right at the beginning of her career. And then kind of had to like rebrand and then became this kind of gay icon, kind of like,

girl of the night no that sounds wrong you know like night time music like club like always no matter what she does is always going to be kind of like looked upon as like a really important artist who's kind of like treading new ground and you know kind of like timeless yes and I think you know we share similarities in that you know

not my first music but music for my second record was globally like commercially successful but at that point of time for me I didn't really have my artistry kind of totally figured out in the way that I feel that I do have now I mean there were definitely like good through threads but when I look at for example like Sour Olivia Rodrigo I'm like

oh, I wish I'd done Sucker kind of like that. Like, because I think there are parallels within those universes, but I think she just did it better because I think she, I don't know. I don't think I knew myself that well at that point in time when I was doing that record. And I look at some of the decisions she made and I'm like, oh, wow. It's like still very like

and kind of like touching on this like live, like punkish stuff. Yeah. But it's done in a way that to me is still very cool. Whereas I feel like when I look back on Sucker, there are elements of it that I'm like, oh, that's just a bit annoying. You know what I mean? I've told you though, that like True Romance is still the perfect, I don't know how you feel about that album, but it's like, I feel like that is still,

I love that record. Core Charlie. That is still like, that's the through thread. That's the through line. You know what I mean? Like I still listen to So Far Away and I'm like, this is fundamentally the same stuff she's putting it, she's put out through her whole career. And like, that is like music of the night. Yeah, totally. It's like,

the beginnings of like bedroom pop, this whole thing now that has this whole, you know, life and culture around it. Like, I think you really broke ground in that way with it. Like, yeah. Sucker is its own thing. And that must've been so strange and so complicated, but it's still a great record. But True Romance, I think it's still like you, you can always, always fall back on that first record is like. Yeah. I love that record. I love that record. But yeah. Anyways, I think it's like, it's just interesting. My career hasn't been like,

It's been like kind of, it's like a weird. A, J, P, Q, R. It's everywhere. There's a T in there. Totally. And it's like straddling this like commercial thing. Also being a songwriter, also being linked to the underground. Yeah. Disregarding that and.

coming back and forth. It's a mess. No, it's not a mess. It's that I think I'm sure you're... No, it's a mess in a nice way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. People don't have that trajectory anymore because people are so afraid to take the risk, whether from the label or from the artists themselves. Like, you have been so good about using whatever the apparatus is, whatever you have within you to just, like, make it. Like, that's what how I'm feeling now is to me. It's like, you just fucking made it. Thank you. You know what I mean?

Bo, listen, vacation is something you got to get right. You can't roll the dice. You have to make sure that it's all together. Everything is where it's supposed to be when you get where you're going on vacation. Can you agree? I have never agreed with you more. And I've

had so many wonderful trips with you in the past. Bowen, I remember one of our favorite trips to Toronto when we shared that Airbnb. Remember that? Airbnb came in the clutch. We were doing our I Don't Think So Honey live in Toronto. We stayed in that amazing Airbnb. We loved it. We had the time of our life. Thanks, Airbnb, still to this day. I remember that Airbnb like it was my own childhood home. Thank you, Airbnb.

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You have had these like, when you describe it as a mess, it is interesting because it's like, there's these spikes of like these mainstream moments. Yeah. Going back to like Boom Clap, like that being in like Love, Simon. Yeah. Like that was like- Fault in Our Stars. Oh, Fault in Our Stars. But it's like the same. It's the same. But I guess that's what I mean. It's like, that kind of was our Fault in Our Stars although they both lived, I guess. They were still gay though. Yeah. But like that and then I remember-

It was a few years ago now, but we were in the Fire Island movie. And when we found out that the boys remix was going to be in our trailer. Yeah, so cool. I was like, thank God, because this is going to get across like the fun of this. It's going to make it seem even more fun than it is. Like, and also just like...

There was something about... Doesn't that song also start Promising Young Woman? Yes. So it's just like there are these moments in big mainstream culture that you're right there. And so I wonder how do you feel when something is perceived on that level? Is that an exciting thing or is it a little bit like, hmm? No, no, I feel good about it. It's like, okay, I think...

Because there are some things you mentioned that, so like Fire Island, Promising Young Woman, those things feel really exciting to me and inspiring and happy to be involved in them. But I think it's like what I've learned, like going back and forth between this kind of like more commercial version of myself to this kind of more, I'm really just leading with like what's in my brain and my, you know, instinct. I've just learned now from doing it so long, I can't like fake

I just can't like fake pushing the commercial button. Like, hi, I'm Top Girl, yeah, I'm smiling and we're here with Coca-Cola. I can't do it. I can't like...

And that's no disrespect to the people who do. Some people are just like made to like live in that world. And like they want to make the music that is going to like really succeed in that world. And it's really hard to succeed in that world. Like I'm not taking that away from anyone, but like I just can't do it because when I've written those songs, I'm,

And I put them out. It's like, they only go so far because I think there's a block that the fans see as well. They're just like, she's not that girl. Like, that's not who she really is. She's not that girl. Like, some of them can, like, maybe a less hardcore fan can...

Get down with it. But it's like, you know, it's just like when you smell a rat. Yeah. Or whatever. It's like, I have to just be... Yourself. Myself. Something in the milk ain't clean. Yes. When you're not being yourself. And I can't fucking...

- Nor should you have to. - I can't do it. - On album six, no. - Because it makes me miserable. - Of course, and then you have to sing that music every night. I think it was Dua who said, we were just talking to her about her album and we were talking about this theme that she has of positivity and the messages that she has are usually up.

And she's like, well, I have to sing it every fucking night. So if it's going to be something that's in my mouth every single night, it better taste good. Like, you know what I mean? That's so funny because I'm the opposite of that. Yeah, really? Like if I had to sing really overly positive, like Boom Clap is a good example. Obviously so different from like Radical Optimism, like completely different sounding records, etc. But like, that's funny that she says that. And that makes sense for her because she is, I think she is always really kind of like,

seizing like the positivity in life. I kind of like to dwell in the... Yeah. I like to kind of like sit in the shit. And externalize that because that is also a valid emotion that people out there are feeling. I have to do it. Yeah, that's so... That's really interesting. Yeah. But like, I feel that this is like... Like the pendulum has stopped swinging. I just had like a vision of like me...

performing radical optimism and Dua doing Brat. Doing Brat. Being like, three, six, five, putty girl, bumping that. And then me doing... Illusion. Yeah. And like both of us being on our, like the versions of what those tours are. And I want to see that. How is that? How's it going down? But this is how you know that like you're doing the right thing is that like,

you like, we love Dua. It would be crazy if she did 360 and it would be kind of crazy if you did radical optimism. It's like you are doing the thing you were meant to do. It is purely externalized from whatever your inner life is. And I feel like you're, what you're saying is maybe the pendulum has stopped swinging. Like you've landed in this nice space of like, I'm in between or I'm more of this one thing than I am this thing. And like,

I feel like reflective surfaces are a big part of this album. It's like, you look in the mirror and you see me like, and you're holding up a mirror to society. Am I being so stupid? No, she saw you illuminate me. I went, hmm, the reflective surface motif. But like,

Use it. Yes, I'm using it. Come on. Use it like a mirror. Like a mirror. We got to ask Charlie the question. Yes, we do. So this is the central question of Lost Culture. It's what was the culture that made you say culture is for you? You can look back and be like, I am largely me because of this thing I experienced. I think it was, and maybe this is not very surprising, but I think it was like,

the London rave scene and that like culture of like London warehouse parties that I kind of came up through because that sort of in turn put me very onto kind of like

club kid stuff when I was younger and when I was in art school I was always kind of like in this sort of like Lee Bowery like inspired like Michael Alec kind of yeah yeah but still there's a cool scene you know like those parties like that level of yes totally and that level of kind of like DIY aesthetic with clothes and music and yeah I think that really formed who I am so chic how did you find it?

I think it was from starting going to these parties because when, it must have been like 2007, 8 when I was going in London. So you were young. I was young. I would go with my parents. Oh, wow. Which was not cool. Were you guys like in Essex going to London? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They would drive me. I would get asked, I had a MySpace and

I knew this like promoter who was like come and play and we would like drive into London and I would play at like 3 a.m. You were being booked for these? Yeah, I was being booked. Wow. And that was kind of my first like...

look into kind of night life and like party culture and at that point in time I guess it was like our version of indie sleaze was going on it was new rave which was like you know sure sure yeah um and so that was sort of like a kind of regurgitation of you know all the prior like

first, second wave of club kids that were coming before. So I kind of just got sort of like sucked in through that way. And then you learned about the prior wave and it felt like education. There was some like rooting for this. It wasn't like it just kind of came up out of nowhere. Like you had history to like soak into. Yeah, I had to soak in the history because I wanted to understand like

what Michael Alec was doing and what like that original like club scene and like those club kids were doing back here in New York and those levels of like crazy parties they would throw like they threw one on a bridge where they like shut both ends of the bridge and like you know just this like lore of like

partying and how that kind of like spawned into music and then began to kind of create like new sounds of music I think that it's like such a rich thing for me yeah like you like at the limelight would have been so fucking imagine yeah wild imagine where do you live now do you still like I'm half in LA and half in London yeah back and forth back and forth yeah LA out of necessity or do you like it

I'm beginning to maybe be over it. I've been there for 10 years. Oh, that feels like, that feels like double the amount of time it would take to be over it. Yeah. I'm thinking about New York, actually. I think New York is... I've never lived here. I think you should do it. I think New York is... New York and London, like, I guess, like, if you were someone who wanted two different experiences in the two places you live, like, I'm here because I want to rest, meaning LA, and I'm here because I want to be included in what's going on and, like, the culture, that's London. But, like...

New York is New York. Yeah. I do love London. You can rest in New York. I do love London too. Did you love performing at Coachella? I was honestly so scared. Was it scary? Yeah, because, you know, with Coachella... You were on the Coachella stage. Yeah. And everyone was like, it's all about the live stream. Everyone's like stressing about the live stream. So that made me kind of treat it more like TV. Oh, got it. You know? Was it helpful or no? Well...

I was happy with how it looked and how I sounded because I was thinking so much about the broadcast, but it definitely like was just stressful. That was a major, you know, it was a major change. So I remember we saw Chapel in the Gobi tent. Mm hmm.

And then right after that, we walked over to Sabrina Carpenter on the Coachella stage. And I remember it felt like the energy was lower. But then I was like, oh, but on this stage, they're thinking about the live stream. Whereas in like the Gobi and Sahara tents, they're just giving a live show. And it feels like that. Like, so the live experience does feel, I would imagine, like more alive there. And maybe as the performer, it feels more connected. Whereas like on the Coachella stage where you were, it is a lot about like,

They're watching at home. Yeah, it was scary. Yeah. That's okay. Yeah. I mean, whatever. Would Lee Barry be here? You crushed. I was having the best time. He wouldn't be there. He wouldn't be there. That's what it tells me. Lee Barry, we used to do these like videos, these little short films of him like,

teaching you how to like have tea. Like he was just so adorable. That's what people don't talk about with Lee Bowery is like, yeah, it's like the looks and all these things, but it's like at his heart, he was just this like sensitive. He was Australian, right? Australian? Yeah. Australian. I got him confused as a Brit, but you know, maybe you're right. Maybe you're right. No, we can't look it up. I hope you're both wrong. I hope you're both wrong. But like,

Did it take you, like... Was there a developmental thing for you to, like, grow up in that and then be like, I'm going to, like, do... I'm going to make this, like, part of me? I don't think it was a choice, you know? I think it's, like, it just...

I gravitated so hard towards it. I think it was like I saw elements of myself in what was being created in the worlds that I was looking into. There was like a punkness and like a kind of freeness. And it felt that there was like a possibility to

be a little messy and not perfect and not look a certain type of a way to still be able to express yourself and feel really like validated or something. And I think I was searching for that a lot when I was growing up. And that that could be a version of success is just going there and participating and being in the culture and being around people that make you feel good and not this like more calculated metric of like, well, did this happen? Did you look like this? And being rewarded for being a freak.

I think that was something that really made me gravitate towards that world because that was what was celebrated. Totally. If you were really wearing something weird or like, you know what I mean? You got attention. You got something. You got cred. Right. I was like, oh, that's cool. You don't have to be this kind of traditional version of beauty or talent or whatever it is. It's like you can kind of make...

a fantasy and it be valid even if it's like a little fucked and ugly you know or whatever that's your root though like that's why it's like you don't have to worry about being like the moral model for anything it's like

Just like let that shit go because you started out in this like environment where like it didn't really matter. Like nightlife culture is about like unrepressed everything. It's just like humanity revealing itself. I'm being so like. No, I love it. You know what I mean? No, I love it. It's so interesting. Have you done Mighty Hoopla or been to Mighty Hoopla? I don't know what that is.

Oh, okay, no problem. It's like a big queer music festival. It's like a queer music festival. I'm like, what is that? I was like, she's probably headlined four times. No, I don't know. It's in London. It's fine. What's that? There's that park that's like South London. Victoria Park. No. Not Victoria. I haven't done it. You haven't done it. No problem. Sorry. No, but it's...

It's like a teeny tiny Coachella, but in London with all queer adjacent artists. They've never asked me. That's so fucked up. Yeah, it's fucked. It's fucked in a crazy way. Are you excited for tour? I am. Have you guys been wanting to tour together? It feels like such a natural thing. Yeah, you know, we have the same manager. Oh, yeah. Our manager has been trying to get us to tour together for years. Yeah. And every time we're like, yeah, like...

obviously we love each other but I think the music has never quite lined up and now it's like so lining up you know so this time when our manager like for like literally the fifth time was like do you guys want to tour together we were like yeah we do because it really made sense and we could see how it would really like flow and work together yeah stuff sung together I think so to be honest we're still putting it together but I think that

Yes. It's what people would want. I mean, I don't think it's going to be like a full medley situation, but there's definitely going to be...

a few moments together. You guys should do Beauty and the Beast. Absolutely. I did see you guys on the same show. Troy's been begging me. I think it was also at the Wiltern. Like, it was years ago. You guys were on the same show. It was like a bunch of artists. Yeah, it was a festival that I think we both did together. Yeah, because I remember distinctly seeing you both and I forget why. It was a pride festival that maybe was Troy's...

but maybe it was also mine, but I don't remember. He totally did. He pioneers it every year. He did. Yeah. Well, it's going to be so fun. It's going to be fun. People were freaking out over the ticket situation, which is always a good feeling when it's like, did people get tickets? I know. So yeah, we're so happy. We're really happy. It's going to be fun. It's like pretty quick. I know. It's like a couple months, right? It's like not even. Is it like...

five weeks. Okay. Where is it in New York? Is it MSG? Yes, it's MSG. Obviously, we'd love for you to come. Oh, we're coming. It's going to be really fun. Yeah.

You know, I've paid top dollar for you. Like, I don't want the coffee three times. You don't have to anymore. Oh, fine. I'll take it if I have to. I'll take it if I have to. I did hear a story one time of, I won't say any details until after, but there was an artist who was in a big feud with this other famous person. And the famous person reached out like years after to like get tickets to a show. And the person just sent back a ticket link and said, buy one. Iconic. Iconic. Love. Love.

Bo, listen, vacation, it's something you got to get right. You can't roll the dice. You have to make sure that it's all together. Everything is where it's supposed to be when you get where you're going on vacation. Can you agree? I have never agreed with you more. And I've

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Are you curious about the world of queer sexuality cruising and expanding your horizons? Well, just hit play on the fiercely sex positive and deeply entertaining podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Join hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson Rosso as they explore gay culture through candid conversations with special guests.

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So be sure to tune in to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. All right, so it's time for I Don't Think So. Okay. You're doing one first. But I just know you're going to pop the fuck off. So this is our 60-second segment where we drag name cultural item here. I walked into this myself today. It's my own fault, but I am in a... Okay. Here we go. There's some self-accountability. This is Matt Rogers. I Don't Think So. Time starts now.

I don't think so, honey. Wearing a graphic tee on the subway in New York. Because here's the thing. People are going to read it and then they're going to engage with it and then you're trapped with them for what could be as much as a half hour. So today I have a shirt on that says, is it going to be a threesome? I'm challengers coded my whole life right now. This is merch from Focus Features. Thank you again. For drive-away dolls. And for drive-away dolls. Haven't seen it yet, but can't wait.

wait, sister, I just know that I was on the subway today with a gentleman who could read the shirt and did out loud. And so then he was engaging with it. It caused everyone to turn. And I said, you know what? Maybe if I hadn't worn a shirt with words on it that could be read, I wouldn't be having a conversation at all, least of all about threesomes. And this person was not necessarily someone I wanted to engage with about threesomes.

15 seconds. You know, if you see me wearing this and you think we would vibe, I don't know, maybe I will be wearing it the whole rest of today. This episode comes out in like three weeks. But I'll wear it again. Five seconds. Actually, yes. The day this episode is released, I'm going to be walking the streets of New York wearing it. Say hi, but not if you're like a crazy person on the subway. And that's one minute. So that's my adult thing coming on today. That was so good. Thank you. I'm going to suck at this. No, you're not. I'm going to try my best. You're going to be so good. You're going to be so good.

We all know you talk super fast. Do I? On recorded media, you go so fast. Let me tell you something. Like in a way, now I'm like, do I? No. Is it in a way that it's like, oh, you mean in songs? I'm just saying we know you can get on the mic and rip. You can hit, you can rip. You know what I mean? In a way, is it like a problem? No. Okay. It means you're built for it. I don't think so. Okay, okay.

Everyone's thing about Charlie is they're like, yeah, she just talks too fast. Wait, I just wish it wasn't so fast. I'm just kidding. No, I'm just saying like, I've heard the album and I know that you can keep up the tempo. I understand. And Bo and Yang, speaking of tempo, you ready to fucking do this? Yeah. Okay. So this is Bo and Yang's I Don't Think So Honey as Time Starts Now. I Don't Think So Honey pubic hair. What?

Why is it looking different down there than up here? I look like Ms. Frizzle got a dye job. I'm curly, curly, curly. And I wish I could get a perm up here and make my, give myself a little swoop. My pubic hair is so tightly coiled down there. And when you see it on the bathroom floor, you go, oh no. - I'm so shocked. - That is not something I wanna see. And it's, if you're living alone like me, it's just you.

I don't like how, I don't like what that's, I don't like what it says about me. I think pubic hair, like either when you have it, it's like, oh, let's, let's shear it. And then when you don't have it, it's like, well, now you look like a fucking mole rat. Yeah, a hundred percent. There's no in between. 15 seconds. Why can't we just stay there? And I'm, I sure as hell ain't laser removing it because it's like, because like I said, if it's gone, it looks even crazier than if it is

a forest, if it's a jungle. And I have a really crazy situation. I don't know why it's different down there. Isn't body hair all supposed to be the same? And that's one minute. You are the only person I believe in history to say you wish what was down there. You wish your pubic hair was on your head. I just want it to go both ways. If my hair on my head looked pubic, I'd be like, well, at least it's consistent. Right. This is so shocking. First of all,

Laser hair removal on your pubic area? No. Some people do it. Asshole, maybe. Some people do it. The guys I've been hooking up with lately don't seem to care at all about maintaining it down there. Right. Or maybe they just think they don't care what I think. Yeah. Hmm.

I think it has been so wild and free as a, I think no matter your gender, it's like, there is not a great way to manage it. Like period. Well, maybe it's also because I'm hooking up with like men that are my age in their thirties and not like, this isn't like when, when you're in fresh in your twenties and everyone thinks like, Oh, I should like manscape or whatever, or like really keep it clean down there. It's like, give it a rest girl. Like we're all just trying to live life. No one cares that you're a hairy one. No one cares, but I bet your pubic hair is thrilling. It's freshly shorn. Oh,

Oh. Why? You have plans later? No, I just, it was getting out of hand and I am in that liminal space now where I'm like, this sucks. Yeah. Are you itchy? No, I'm actually okay. I'm moisturizing. Cool. Down there? Conditioning. Conditioning, moisturizing. Oh yeah, I guess so. I should try my purple shampoo for my blonde. Yeah. Get blonde pubes. Get blonde pubes.

Okay, anyway. I am nervous. Don't be. I'm nervous. I'm nervous. Okay, great. Don't be nervous. My heart just skipped a beat. No, you're going to be absolutely slay. Think of something you're like. I got it. You got it. Just speak the truth. This is Charlie XCX's I Don't Think So Honey. Her time starts now. Okay, I don't think so, honey. I'm actually coming for a group of people.

these people who have this stuck up, eye-rolly attitude towards reality TV. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? Taking it back to the beginning of our conversation, what is not to love? I feel like there is such a high level

low conundrum to reality TV that just makes me want to sink my teeth in, whether it be our favorite Housewives of Salt Lake City, Potomac, also heard it's pretty good. Miami also heard it's pretty good. Excellent. But also what about some other amazing shows below deck, below deck.

Below Deck Down Under, Below Deck Sailing Yacht, Below Deck Mediterranean, Love Island, Australia, British, heard the US wasn't that good. But anyway, I just think that there is such a psychology, such a wonderful, amazing world to delve into on reality TV. It's like the factory. It's absolutely fabulous. Just keep it coming and don't judge it. And that's one minute. There you go. And you were worried for no reason. I don't think so, honey. The world there. Oh.

Reality TV is not trash. It's not trash. It's not trash. It's art. It's art. I sweat during that. Oh my God. I was like sweating. And look, but that's like a good sign. Like we had promo for the tour. Promo for the tour. I was just like, oh my God. Way to clear Voight come in recently. And he, when he sweats, he means it's the spirit moving. It's like energy is moving through him. That's what's happened. Amazing. Yeah. You should watch Couples Therapy.

It's so good. Ornig-Aralnic. Ornig-Aralnic. Fabulous. Have you had her on? No. We should. She is the sexiest woman alive. She's so sexy. Don't you just want to be her? I love her. And what just happened here? I love her. Just a tiny little... What? And what was that? I love her. She's like, talk about this.

She's amazing. I'm so glad you watched it. I love her. I think her fashion is incredible. I just think she's chic. I bet her apartment's really cool. Have you gotten to the lockdown stuff yet?

Where they bring the cameras into her apartment because she's doing all of it through like telehealth. So like you see her apartment and it's like kind of messy in a very charming way. She's got all her kids running around. How many kids does she have? Two. I think she's so fast. What I love is when she speaks to her therapist who's a real icon. Virginia. Virginia. She's very like brand coded. She's a real superstar. But you finished it all the way through. There's like, I mean...

whatever, we don't have to talk about it. There's an Israeli-Palestinian queer couple that's amazing. And then Orna's like, when she finds out that one of them is Palestinian, she goes, you know I'm from Israel, right? And then like, Orna...

like blessed like is like on socials being like this is crazy anyway but you should watch it all the way through you would fucking love it I can't wait I can't wait she's a star she's a star but that's between like that's not quite reality it's not quite documentary right it's like they know they're being filmed but they can't see the cameras I think they've done that show by the way I have no idea how long we have left but I'm like wow we could do a whole episode on this I feel like they've shot

that show in a really tasteful way yes and i hope it never changes you know what you want to know what it is it's like you can tell that well obviously it's all hidden that's like part of it but it's still really elevated the way they shoot it and i just what i love is that they seem to catch micro emotions like it's really like intentionally edited yeah and i believe it's like really smartly done through her lens yeah because we're making a joke about like what

what was that? But we saw it too. You know what I mean? And also it has to be so crazy like to be in those sessions and then watch it after because it's also an edited version of that session. You think that would also maybe give you a little bit of a complex. Like why am I being edited this way and not that way? Like I can't understand saying yes to that, but I'm so thrilled that people do. Me too. Do you have a favorite couple or a most fascinating couple? I really liked the young couple.

queer couple. Like they were really young and they had been in a relationship for like three years sort of formatively. And one of them wanted to be in an open relationship and the other did not or was adjusting to that. And I think ultimately what they had to really figure out and admit to each other was that they were not right for each other. And watching that

was heartbreaking. Yeah. And I just hope that they could still figure it out to be in each other's lives because that's, I think, the hardest thing about when a relationship ends is it's like, I don't want to lose you as the person. Mm.

You know, like that. And I thought that was just like a beautiful illustration and like, you know, examination of that kind of thing. Like, I love you more than anything. This is not right. Yeah. Do you have a favorite? Yeah. Mine is also season one. It was the kind of like very sort of set in his ways, quite sexy. Oh, I know who you're talking about. Man.

man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the woman who was sort of willing to try anything for him. Right. And he was just, he would like get up during the session and walk around. Yeah, can't stand it. And he was just like being like very controlling. But his story is interesting. His story was wild. So wild. Like that woman like fucked him when he was like 14 or something. And like tied him to a

bed and also the way it came out again could be the edit we don't know it was just sort of like they'd done like four or five sessions nothing was really like going anywhere and then one day he's just like well you know there was that time where I got tied to a bed when I was 14 and like

And I was like, what? Let's like really examine this for a sec. Yeah. It's just like, he just like throws it in out of nowhere. But that's real though. That's real therapy shit. There's no like easing into it. Sometimes it just kind of, you drop the bombs. Well, you get the sense that he either was just a stubborn controlling with,

like releasing that information as he is in the immediate thing. Or I think some guys that are like that just don't understand. They don't get it. That it has affected them in that way. I mean, who knows? But I was under the impression that maybe he just like wasn't there yet. Yeah. But then the thing that was really interesting about them was then Orna would go and speak to her therapist about how she was getting very triggered specifically by him. And that was like at this point,

extra dynamic that was really interesting and she was kind of talking about how she needed to make sure she was providing like fair and equal counsel but she was like so annoyed by him yeah that is interesting really interesting I think there's multiple like people like this like he's one of the people who says to her I could do your job yeah yeah I couldn't believe that that was crazy can you imagine the goal do you have a favorite couple I don't

I like, there's a couple in season two that's really great. It's two men. One of them is a ballet dancer. Oh, they were great. They were great. And one of them had a really harrowing journey with sobriety. And then the pandemic happened. And the pandemic happened. And then there's this one couple, there's a problem couple in season three. And she talks to Virginia and she talks to a peer group of other therapists. Yeah. And all of them help her crack this one couple because she hits a wall. She's like, I don't know what to do. Because the guy was stonewalling everything.

The guy was so wily. And there's such a sensational clip of her. They play at the beginning of the season where she's just like, they're screaming and she goes, I'm gonna stop you guys right now. I'm not the right therapist for you. And then you're like, oh! You're like, how does it get there? How does it get there? And you watch it. You watch it. They teed it up. There was also that great, there was a great couple that was, she was a dancer in The Lion King. Yes! And she was like,

she was always busy at night and so she could never have dinner with the family and her kids and like it was like a thing he's like well you're never home for dinner it's like I'm in the Lion King and you knew this when you married me cause she had been in the Lion King for like 40 years it's never ending she had been in the Lion King for as long as the earth has been spinning yeah

- Yeah. - That's the best job. - What a job, hey. - I know. - Are you a therapy icon? - Am I who? - Are you a therapy icon? - Yeah. - Yeah. - I am. I meant the Lion King being what a job. - Oh, also therapists, both.

Honestly, I can't believe I was never not in it. I can't believe I was ever. No, I can't believe I was ever not in it because I love it so much. Oh, again. I think you meant the show. I was like Lion King. I don't think there's many roles for me in the Lion King on Broadway, but I would love to help out. I'll do ushering. But no, therapy's great. Therapy's great. Speaking of great, speaking of great, the album is fucking sublime.

Yeah, good for you. And I'm glad you responded. It seemed like you responded positively when I made a comparison to XCX World. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. I'm like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Of course. No, you're right. And I think, yeah, you nailed it. You nailed it. Yeah. So fucking good. We love you, Charlie. I love you both. Thank you for everything you've done. Thank you for having me. Of course. This was really fun. Let's end every episode with a song. I'm breaking.

- Wait, why do I love all your bells? You know what I love? Official. - Official. - It's a fan favorite. - Official reminds me of Jared. It's when we first- - Is that a boyfriend? - He was my boyfriend, now he's my best friend. We figured it out in a way that I hope that couples therapy couple did. But official was like, I was like, whoa, like the little things are happening that make me feel like I can go the distance. - That's so nice. - Great writing. ♪ These are the things that can make us official ♪

Bye!

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