In a Song of the Summer, Clues for January in Iowa 42:10

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I'm not a big country music fan, but I am a political reporter. And this August, in the GOP primary, those two things collided. With Jason Aldean's Try That in the Small Town.

In the song, Aldine lists off behavior he associates with cities, like crime and disrespecting the flag and police officers. And then he warns people of the consequences if they, quote, try that in a small town. He sings, got a gun that my granddad gave me. They say one day they're going to round up.

Well, that shit might fly in the city. Good luck. Try that in a small town. The song quickly hit the country music charts. Then, Aldeem released the music video.

One of the most popular country music hits of the summer is Try That in a Small Town. But the song has ignited controversy and faced backlash from fans who say the lyrics encourage racism and violence. In the video, images are projected on a building, some showing clips of protests, looting and tense police encounters. The video includes footage of violent protests and vandalism.

and was filmed in part at a courthouse in Tennessee, which was the scene of race riots in 1946 and where a Black man was lynched in 1927. In the video, shots of Aldine singing alternate with newsreel of various crimes, violence, and rioting in cities.

It also included images from racial justice protests during the summer of 2020. The music video was just pulled from country music television because of imagery that critics say has racist undertones and promotes violence. Many public figures like Sheryl Crow criticized the track and video, while Donald Trump, Ron DeSantis, and others voiced their support for Aldean. Later, the video was quietly edited to remove some of that protest footage. But the lines had already been drawn.

The song quickly gained popularity on the right. In fact, it became Aldine's first single to top the Billboard Hot 100. Republican primary candidates began playing it at their events. Donald Trump made the political connection directly, writing, And so this summer, as the Iowa State Fair was coming to an end,

We are back in Des Moines, Iowa for the last day of the Iowa State Fair. But we're here not really for the fair at all. And after all the candidates had come and gone, we are going to the final concert, which will close out the fair, which is headlined by Jason Aldean. I saw that Jason Aldean would be closing out the week, and I knew that's where I wanted to be. So my colleague Caitlin and I got tickets, not only to ask people about the song and its message,

but also to ask about Trump and the culture within the Republican Party that has rallied around them both. From the New York Times and the Grandstand at the Iowa State Fair, I'm Astead Herndon, and this is The Run-Up. Try that in a small town. Okay, so the bar...

There's two drinky areas. There's one over here and there's one a little closer to the grandstand. But we can also look at people who have Aldine-esque clothing on. Should we just follow those people? Okay, hold on. Let's try to talk to them. Okay.

Hi, my name's Estet. This is Kaitlyn. We're reporters with The New York Times. We're here at the Aldine concert today. We're talking to people who decided to come and we're specifically actually talking to people about the song and all of the stuff that's been... I saw y'all in the t-shirts. Do you have maybe five, ten minutes? Do you want to chat?

I don't think so. You sure? Okay. Well, thank you. Have a great day. Hey, how are you? My name's Estet. This is Caitlin. Hi. We're with the New York Times. We are here talking to people going to the... Oh, go ahead. Tell your thing. I know. 19. Caitlin, we're from the New York Times. We're talking to people headed to the Aldine concert. All right. I think you're walking away from us. Okay. Okay.

My name's Ested. This is Caitlin. We're from the New York Times. We're talking to people going to the Aldine concert today about country music and how they like it, how it influences the way they think about politics and things like that. You all have maybe 10 minutes to talk with us. Are you going to the concert? Yeah. You want to chat maybe for five, 10 minutes? Depends what the questions are. Hey, how about I ask the questions? You can decide after we ask, huh? I've been reporting from Trump events since 2016, so I'm used to people being skeptical of talking to me. But this felt a little different.

I was cute in the morning, but it's a real sundown state for me. This felt like people saw me coming and thought, oh, that black guy with his fair media badge around his neck is going to make me feel like a racist for liking this song. And honestly, I did want to ask about race, because to me, that was part of what felt important about this story. We finally met one couple who was happy to talk.

Even though I meant their two little kids would be stuck listening. I'm curious, like, y'all always been Aldine fans? Oh, yeah. What is it about his music specifically that's resonating with you? Most of what, he's just a good old boy that's trying to make a living, trying to make sure everybody knows where we come from. This one was raised in a town of 12,000, was the highest in the population. I love Aldine. He's just a patriot. He loves America, and he's...

He's just true country. Just loves his country, loves his family. And, you know, he stands for that. He stands for family, God, and country. You know, what do you think it is that maybe the coast or people aren't getting about maybe the heartland or country music and why it's resonating so much? So I spent 10 years, my mom worked for the State Department, so I spent a lot of time in the D.C. metro area. Yeah.

My mom was born service. I got to live in some of the biggest cities in the world. And it all comes down to most people in the big cities are too busy climbing a ladder or chasing a buck.

The idea that Stop and Smell the Roses is a completely foreign concept. I'd much rather spend a night up on the lake in the bed of my pickup truck staring at the stars than go and bar hop in it. I listened to this song specifically because I was reading some of the stuff, the back and forth. What did you think about the kind of backlash that happened when the song came out? So all the clips he used were all news footage. And it was, he picked a broad range of news footage.

The other comment about that courthouse, well, one, Miley Cyrus used it in her movie for Hannah Montana. It is one of the most historical buildings in Tennessee. I feel like I hear you saying it was much ado about nothing. You felt that? Yeah, absolutely. And the other thing I'm not taking into account is, so I know what the backstory is that I'm trying to push on that. There was an African-American man who was lynched in front of the courthouse where Aldean shot his video. But...

Look at the political landscape. That kind of lynching would never happen today in modern society. There'd be way too much backlash, both on civil front, political front, and law enforcement wouldn't stand for it. I was a volunteer deputy, a reserve deputy back in Colorado. I know a lot of police officers, and they wouldn't stand for it. I know most of my brothers in the military wouldn't stand for it. I mean, that's what we fought for.

They're saying that that was a tragic thing that happened there, but that's not the same situation that we're talking about now. Do you think it could be a response to some of the protest movements we saw as recently as 2020? Definitely. Yeah. Okay, I'm saying that's the connection I felt. So if you were to try anything that they had on any of their clips, it wouldn't be the police you'd be up against. It'd be all the rest of the citizens of that city. It wouldn't fly in most small towns that I've ever been in. What I hear somewhat is a sense of...

that the town would band together and the town would do something about it. Yep. And that's what the song is trying to speak to. Last thing I would say was about politics itself. Is there anyone, when you look ahead to the next primary, you know, we've been in Iowa talking to folks, you know, who play such a huge role in that selection. Do you look at someone and say they represent those values, right? When you look at the president's options. So...

Is Trump a constitutional conservative? Yes.

If he wasn't, he wouldn't have appointed the people that he did to the Supreme Court. My lead candidates, if Trump does make it to the ballot, is either Trump or DeSantis. Just because of their stance on the Constitution. They understand that sometimes some things need to change, but the core of that Constitution cannot change. One thing about Trump that comes to my mind is he's probably very much a big city person. How do you think...

someone from there has come to represent these values that you're talking about that are so core and that, you know, aren't represented in places like this. Because he still puts faith, family, and country before anything else. And that's what I've seen from him. That's what I saw him prove in four years. Yeah. Okay, so he went on his little rants on Twitter, but...

that just means he's human. I want to make sure I have this right. Do you think of the song as a political song? No. Right. It's a song that seemingly, to you all, is about these values that hold these communities together. And even if that value includes...

We fight back if someone comes here and messes with this. That is still a value you're proud of. Absolutely. Right, okay. So when people are like, oh, there's some threat of looming violence, you're saying, we're only saying that because we see it as a protection of those values. Yes. And so it's not incompatible with things you want to teach your children and things, whatever, because you want them all to have those values. Absolutely. He studied martial arts for five years. Now, I don't agree with fighting in school.

But however, if somebody throws that first punch, he can defend himself. So we won't throw the first punch, but we'll throw the last one. You see that as what that speaks to. We're here to throw the last one. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. This was really helpful. You're welcome. Thank you so much. And thank you all for letting us bother your parents for a while. So that was one answer we got from Aldine fans.

This was a song about small-town values. And by that, they mean God, family, country. But I wanted to know if everyone was just as comfortable with all parts of the song, like how it was resonating in the political moment, or the lyrics that could be taken as a violent threat.

As long as it's how you feel, then that's what we care. Can you tell us your name? Jerika Nickham. Jerika. Are you from Iowa? Yes. Of what part? Well, I'm from Des Moines, but I live in Southern Iowa now. Okay. Is this your first day at the fair? You've been coming all week. This is my fourth concert. Oh, it's your fourth concert. What did you go to? Maren Morris, Ludacris, and Sean Kingston. And then we were here last night, too. That's awesome. Yeah, for the Dixie Jigs, so...

Do you trend to one side of that genre, or do you just like it all? I just like it all. Yeah. I like all music, really. Yeah. So, yeah. I guess I don't have a preference. I'm seeing you wearing the shirt. Yes. When did you get the shirt? This week. Also, can you describe it to me for me? Yes, it says try that in a small town, so now I live in small town Iowa. Yes. And...

I just have those beliefs now. Is that a shift for you, that moving to a small town kind of helped? Yes, because I grew up in Des Moines. I went to, like, a mega school here, and now I'm raising my kids the opposite way. Can you tell me how you kind of came to make that decision? Well, I married my husband. He's from southern Iowa, and I was raised kind of country anyways. We're hunters. We...

and do all the country stuff, but I grew up in the city, so kind of just chose the country life for my kids. Yeah. Yeah. And what is it about the song that really, you think, speaks to that? Well, my children had a traumatic event this week. We had a high-speed chase in our town, and he put a lot of people's lives in danger, including my children. And I just think that, like, our community binds together. It's not something I ever grew up with. I didn't ever have, like, that safety, I guess. So that's something that...

I feel that in my community now. Like, we stick up for each other. Our police officers are incredible. Like, they have been working with our family and made us feel safe in our community. And that's something that I think is extremely important. And something that you say in the song is speaking to those kind of values. Yeah, it's speaking to the values of, you know, we stick together. We're a community and we stand for good morals. And...

I want my kids to see that, so. If I could devil's advocate for one second. Yeah. Like, there's the other thing that happens in that song about the kind of, like, looming or else threat to it. You know, if you bring those liberal big city values to this town, something bad might happen to you. See, and I, I,

I'm like on the fence on that because I want my children to be culturized and have diversity and to like love other people. Yeah. My modern life, love God, love people. And you can do that if someone doesn't believe the same thing as you. Yeah, I guess I would say this doesn't feel to me like fully the message of the song though, right? Yeah, and I believe, I guess...

I'm someone that's like, I'm not all or nothing. Some people are all or nothing. I'm not one of those people. The other thing we're talking to people about this week is the presidential primary coming up. You know, we've been here. We've been here in Des Moines. You know, y'all play a hugely important role. Do you see anyone in national politics that reflects those small town values that you say, like, really you resonate with? I'm an independent, so I'm open. I'm not...

I'm not a Republican or a Democrat. So I'm just going to pick the person that I resonate with the most and that holds values that really not even for me, but like for my children, because honestly, we're planning for the future in our politics. So what's happening now is going to reflect on their lives in 10 years. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Nice to meet you guys.

Thank you. We're from the New York Times. We're going to the Aldine concert today and we're talking to people about country music and what makes them excited about it and also how it shapes or maybe influences the way they think about politics. I saw your shirt. I was wondering if you maybe had five, ten minutes to chat with us. Are you going to the concert? Sure. Yeah? Yep. We're going too. What made you want to go? Jason Aldean. He's the best. Have you been a longtime fan?

I've been a longtime fan and what he speaks is the truth. What do you mean by that? His new song tells it like it is. Oh, are you talking about the Trident in a small town? Yeah. This country's gone to hell in a handcart under Biden and everything and the Democrats, it's time to take it back. That's what you think that song really speaks to? Well, I think that song, he's telling it like it is. You know? You know, I was listening to it today. Is there a specific lyric? Is there a thing that you actually... I lived in Minneapolis

It did, of course, happen under Trump, not Biden.

I hear like in country there seems to be some artists who really speak to that stuff, some artists who kind of go on. What is it that you think is the kind of connection between country music and conservative politics like Donald Trump? What binds them together? It's the country aspect of living, of helping your neighbors, red, white, and blue. The nationalism, the red, white, okay. And the Bible, everything else. It's all about helping each other out and being true to your country. Yeah. We've got away from that. Yeah.

Big time. The other thing that song really mentions is like, it's a kind of like promise that if you do try it in a small town, that you know, who knows what's going to happen. They're going to get their ass whooped. So, I mean, I'm saying like, that's the other part of that song. They're going to get their ass whooped. I can guarantee you that. I come from a small town, Richard. Yeah. And I've been in a lot of small towns. Yeah. People there don't buy into all this liberalism, the, you know, the transgender stuff and all this other crap that goes along with it. Uh-huh.

We need to get back to our roots. So that's what the song is. People taking care of people. That's what the song is saying is if you bring that stuff here. You're going to get your ass handed to you. You're going to get your ass hit. Yep. Now, how does that relate to the kind of politics? You know, you mentioned Trump. Are you someone who wants him to come? I want Trump back 100%. Biden is a complete loser, a complete failure. He's corrupt. The whole government should be investigated and investigated.

I'm for the hanging or the firing spots for treason. You're saying hanging and firing spots where you are. Because that's what they've done. They've committed treason. Think about it. I guess I'm asking about Trump versus the other Republicans, maybe not even Biden. I get how you kind of feel about Biden. There's a lot of Republicans who are technically running right now. We were in Iowa as other people tried to pitch themselves. There are some good Republicans running against Trump, but...

I don't think anybody can pull it together other than Trump. The only other two candidates I would maybe even support would be, uh, let me think, is Tim. Tim Scott. Tim Scott or Kayla or Kyla, what's, I can't think of her last name. Hmm. I don't know who Kyla is. Uh, she was with, she was big in the UN. Oh, Nikki Haley. Nikki Haley, okay. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Okay, I hear... My bad. No problem. I hear what you're saying. We talked to some people who talk about how culture and politics are like separate things. It seems kind of connected, though, in places like this, that like, you know, that song is speaking to a little political feeling you have. He's just expressing what a lot of people feel. We as Americans don't get to express our views that much. Where are we going to do it?

Like maybe talking to you or something. Other than that, the politicians don't listen. They do what they want to do. They don't care about us. They don't care about America. My last question. Some people say that song is a threat of violence or would say it's a... It's not. What would you say to that? No. It's not racial. It's not anything like that. It's just saying the truth. I'm the same way. If somebody was coming after my family...

I'd kick their fucking ass. And that's the way he's saying, you're coming after our country, our town. We're going to kick your ass. We got to go. Yeah, no problem. Can I just tell me your name? Darren. And what part of Iowa? How long have you been here? I live in Central Iowa. You live in Central Iowa. Have fun at the concert. Thank you for talking to me. Thanks, buddy. I really appreciate it. There's not one way of looking at this song. Just like there's not one way to look at Donald Trump's political appeal.

But in talking to people who attended the concert, it's clear that it's not just Thaldane's critics who heard a political message and tried that in a small town. Many of his fans heard one too. A message that says they're right to feel that mainstream culture is defined by liberals who live in big cities, who hold different values than they do. A rallying cry for conservatives to do something about it, no matter who it offends.

It's the same type of cultural grievance that's the lifeblood of Donald Trump's political message. But I still wondered if anyone saw what critics of the song saw, if they could see how Aldine's words in this moment could still be read as divisive or even racist. This lady has a triad in a small town. Oh, it's a Black man. I'm kind of interested. That's what I was thinking about when I spotted a couple among the crowd. The man was Black. The woman was white.

And she was wearing a T-shirt that read, tried that in a small town. Hey, how are y'all? My name's Estet. This is Caitlin. We're reporters with the New York Times. We're talking to people headed to the Aldean concert about country music, about the show, and about kind of how they see and view politics. Y'all maybe have five, ten minutes. I saw the shirt. No, we good. It did. Mine didn't get here in time. You were trying to have the shirt off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, thank you. I appreciate it. Can you just tell me a little about yourselves? Like, what's your name? Where are you from? Things like that.

I'm Monica, I'm from Newton. I'm Dwayne, I'm from Missouri but I live in Newton too. No, you all live in-- Well, Kellogg. Is that a small town? Yeah, small town. It is a small town. One of the things we've been asking people about is like, what is it about country that people really cling on to? I think saying, if you're shipped to an alien from New York and you're trying to tell them that this is actually something that deeply resonates, is it just Aldine or is it the song specifically? How would you actually explain that? I mean, I guess I would say that it's authentic.

So we are an interracial couple who absolutely love each other and understand that, I mean, he's not racist. He is talking about...

Taking care of your neighborhood. Taking care of each other. For me, I come from a small town and I believe that we take care of each other. It has nothing to do with race. It has to do with we take care of each other. So don't fuck with us. I'm from a small town in Missouri of 5,000 people and someone comes down there doing stuff that, you know, Clark, Jack and the old lady, you know, you're not going to make it down the road. We all know each other. You know what I mean? So it ain't like that you can just...

like the song, you know, in the city, you know, everybody don't really look out for each other like that. You know, it is coming after the kind of 2020 moment. It is coming after. And I think that the reason some people took on to that was saying, is this a response to that? And saying like, these values are inconsistent with what the message of that movie. I'm saying as a black person, how did you hear those two things? Well,

I understand the movement, you know, and the threat is real and exists. You know, when I was coming up, we had to fear the KKK, run it down Missouri, you know, but I just don't get that vibe from him. But there is one line in the song that kind of gave me pause a little bit. Which one? Where he says, we're going to round up. Yeah. You know what I mean? And that kind of took me back a little bit, but I also got to remember, you know, hey,

Coming up, you know, and someone come to our neighborhood, you know, and was doing stuff that we didn't like there, not consistent with our values, you know, they had to go. You know, and I just don't think that the roundup part in the totality of the song stood, you know what I mean, as far as everything else I heard. I heard that part too, and that's the part that actually jumped out to me. Yeah, when we're going to round up. Yes. Like, what are you going to round up? You know, I'm looking at it as far as like, okay, so I'm from a small town in Missouri. I'm

The majority of my neighborhood is African-American. You know, if we're going to round up, you know, it's going to round up the guys. We're going to go get this threat out of our neighborhood. You know what I mean? And whatever it is. And you're saying that can be a non-racialized thing. It can be a non-racial. It can go just as true. Like I said, a lot of people don't realize that there's a lot of African-Americans in small towns. And, like, our neighborhood is, we ride horses. We, you know, mess with cattle. My grandfather raised paints, you know, horses. So...

Our small town was African-American. You know, I know country boys, you know, pretty much. I do leather work, you know, and everything else. Can I tell you something? Oh, Lord. Hit me with it, please. We met in prison. I was his counselor. And now we're together. So, like...

We're together regardless of all of that political bullshit. Yeah. We're together because we love each other. Stigmas or all that. We just... Our families disagree. Well, her family. Well, mine. My family disagrees. I don't give a shit. Yeah. I don't give a shit. Where we're from, we take care of each other, whether it's you and me and we're black or white or we're yellow or purple or whatever. Yeah.

But at the same time, I hear you saying that it has come up, right? Yes. It has been a thing. It has been a thing. I can see how you're saying folks aren't seeing color, but it also sounds like some folks are seeing color. Listen, the older folks see color. The younger folks say we love you. The older folks say he's black. The younger folks say we love you. So, I mean, it is an issue. But where we're from...

I honestly believe that we take care of each other. Yeah. That's what the song is. My grandmother fed people on Sundays. She did a cookout and invited them to her old neighborhood. Yeah. You know, if you're hungry, come get you a plate. Yeah. You know what I mean? So that's just kind of how I grew up. And I went to his family reunion. I can tell you, I was absolutely welcomed with open arms. Yeah. Let me, I have one more question. If it's Trump versus Biden again,

Do y'all think you're going to be people who are going to vote? Who would you vote for? I mean, we always vote. But honestly, I absolutely, absolutely do not vote for Trump. I do not vote for Trump. You know, look, Trump has some good policies. Like, his delivery is questionable. But he has some good policies. But as for women, women should vote. But are our choices well? No. Our choices are not good. Not well. Not good. Is there a third option? Choices are not good.

He said, all right, option C, none of the above. None of the above. This are fresh. We'll be right back. BP added more than $130 billion to the U.S. economy over the past two years by making investments from coast to coast. Investments like building EV charging hubs in Washington state and starting up new infrastructure in the Gulf of Mexico. It's and, not or. See what doing both means for energy nationwide at bp.com slash investing in America.

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After we'd been outside the grandstand for a few hours, it was time to head to the concert. Aldine came on stage, and about a half hour into his show... We got a brand new album coming out for you guys in November, alright? I don't know if you know this, but we released the first single off that album called Try That in a Small Town. He introduced Try That in a Small Town. ...which is so weird. You put out a song like this that just kind of says, most of us are just tired of the bullshit, right? We're just tired of it.

After listening to a bunch of fans tell us their interpretation of the song, it was interesting to hear Aldine take it on directly.

— In some ways, Aldean sounds just like his fans. He's not only shrugging off the blowback to the song, he's thumbing his nose at it and blaming the media for blowing it out of proportion.

But unlike most of the people we talked to, who acknowledge the song's relationship to the protests of 2020, or its political connection to Donald Trump, Aldine is more vague. It's all a wink and a nod. I'm very proud of the song. I'm proud of the message it says. I stand by the song. I stand by the video. And I want to thank you guys, everybody. I want to thank you guys.

Thank you guys for standing up for this song when it came out. Trust me, we were all over social media watching everything that was going on and the way everybody, you guys rallied around this song and video when they tried to make it something it wasn't. It was really, really cool to see from the bottom of our heart. We just want to say thank you all so much for that. Now, that being said, I can't think of a better place to play this song than right here in the woman's album tonight. And all I can say is if you know, you know. So here you go. Try that in a small town, baby.

The crowd sang along. And Aldine got a huge cheer when, as he sang, he grabbed an American flag from the audience and draped it over himself. After the song ended, the crowd broke out in the chant of USA. Aldine's speech, the flag, the chants. Being in this crowd, at this concert, I can see why some Republican candidates have adopted this song for their campaigns.

But I can also see why the overwhelming popularity of this song helps explain why this hasn't been much of a Republican primary at all. God, family, country, even the threat of violence. The message of the song is the message of Donald Trump. So of course Republican voters seem to be rallying behind a candidate who is facing four criminal indictments, just like Aldine fans rallied behind him and his message.

Why did anyone expect anything else? By the way, we reached out to Aldine several times, but he said no to talking to us.

After Try That in a Small Town was over, we stayed for a couple more songs. And then we left the concert. Um...

Oh, well, let's start with your names and where you're from. I'm Rick and Tara Makahonic, my sister Dara. And we went back outside to talk to one last group of people.

You know, in there, I thought it was interesting. You know, he drapes him. He takes the flag as he's singing the song. The USA champ breaks out after. Yeah, we were in there for the concert. Why do you think it's become not just that people think that the controversy is overblown, but it's become a rallying cry. It's become a rallying cry about nationalism, the flag, and all those things specifically. Like, what do you think makes people like you go buy this shirt? I think, honest to goodness...

Well, her shirt was sweaty and she needed a new shirt. We believe, I believe that if we do not get somebody, and they may not be perfect, it could be Donald Trump, one of the most imperfect presidents that I know of as far as his personal life. But we, as conservatives, Christians, we have to get somebody besides the direction the country seems to be going.

or we're not going to have a country. That's how I feel. And also, bottom line, I think that this nation is absolutely not past the point of no return. I believe it's worth saving. I think there's so much more that is good about this nation that I hear a lot of kind of hate thrown out there about sins of the past. But this nation is good. It is worth redeeming. And so I'm like, when I look at this...

This idea of pulling together community and loving on this nation. I mean, you've got to start with love because you can't hate people into doing better. You've got to love them into doing better. And I'm like, to me, this is like love on a community, love on a nation, love on the flag, all of it. I also take my own personal feelings. And so you take the videos of those people that are destroying riots, George Floyd, all that.

My reality is I want to reach those people and show them a better way. I don't want to hate them or say, oh, you're worthless because you're this thug and you're doing all this. I want to grab them, find them, help them. Everybody deserves grace.

But is that song a song of grace? I don't know. Probably not. It doesn't feel to me like it's fully a song of grace. So don't take me wrong. I'm not sitting here thinking, well, that's me. I'm just saying for him and his freedom of speech and the way that he wants to portray that, I don't believe that his way, you know, just like these people that say I'm going to lock...

people up forever if they do this or do that one of the things I do want to say one thing though like in regards to the song that subject matter I think really also there has to be a certain point where like I'm gonna like hold the line I'm like gonna stand up for what's right I'm gonna do the right thing that's what I'm gonna talk about and I'm not gonna just give in and let you know chaos ensue whatever that might be in whatever situation that is so grace runs out well I don't

know that it's that grace runs out, but is it graceful to everybody to just let chaos ensue? I think at some point in time... That's a good point. I'm not saying that you can't just keep letting all of this craziness happen and not stop it. And it doesn't mean you have to hate people, but you have to say, hold up, you know, just because maybe you're hurting here, but you can't just continue to hurt people because you're hurting. So I'm going to say, I'm sorry, you can't keep doing that. You all mentioned, and I think it's kind of

built in in some of the songs we hear here and that's a kind of like looming threat to the country. Like, what do you think is the looming threat to the country that makes you so nervous, that feels the sense of urgency for right now? All of the stuff behind the scenes that you see happening with agendas of getting people that are doing things that are so far from the values that I know are right and true and godly, um...

the transgender issue and children and you know I believe that

Those people that think that they have to become something else because either they're not satisfied with who they are, what they are, and they get this option offered to them, I don't believe that's the right offering. I think you've got to get to it and solve the issues before it gets to that point. And it's just become this crazy thing where even in our schools, in our little secluded rural town of Des Moines, Iowa, everything is...

kind of taking God and values out of all of the stuff that our country was founded on. Are you someone like them who thinks that, you know, the next nominee should be Trump? I would, yeah, I mean, that's who I'm going to support. Yeah. I mean, you know. And we caucus, too. All of us caucus. I help count the votes. I'm curious. Okay, my last question, and we can all leave because we've let everyone walk by. Sorry. Sorry.

No, thank you. I'm saying outside of the result next year, like, you know, like Trump, let's say Trump's the nominee. He faces Biden. We don't know how that's going to end up. How do you think it's going to be mood wise, tone wise? Like it does feel as if there's these two sides who both think that the other side. If Trump wins, I believe that Trump may have learned some lessons.

about how to win friends and influence people. Dale Carnegie. And I think that things are going to be much better than they were the first time around. And if he does the right things, and if he doesn't just sit there and dwell on...

oh, see, I told you so or this and that. But he just gets down to business and does his job and appoints people and runs his country. I think our country will come out of inflation. I think the jobs will come back. I think the interest rates will come down. And I think hopefully then people will see, OK, maybe this way that these capitalists do things isn't that bad. And again, I'm not putting it all in him. I'm not saying that

that if he does that, I think it's going to be better even if Biden wins or whoever is going to run in Biden's place if Biden doesn't end up being able to run. I just think the country's ready for a change. Do you all maintain that optimism that you think in this next year that, you know, a Trump can kind of bring a country together?

I definitely do because I think he's been the underdog for so long and now that people have seen how he's been done wrong, I don't care if you're from wherever, when you know that someone's been constantly berated and it's been proven, I think that people are wanting to rally around him just because it's his time, he deserves this. It was taken away from him.

And he still did great things. So I think it's more of that... I don't know that he deserves it. I think that he is a servant. I think he truly has decided... Well, plus he probably wants to pardon himself. I don't know. Let's not go there. But optimism... I don't know. I just forgive everybody. Yes, I have optimism for that better things are coming. I do believe that. I don't know that it's necessarily in the hands of any politician. I don't think so. I think that if...

If better things are going to come, it's because our God, the God that's over everything, whether you believe it or not, is the only one that can really make the difference. I think the people have to turn their hearts back to God. Yes. Oh, gosh, that's so good! Thank you all so much for your time. This is really great. Thank you. We turned to leave, but then something happened.

something that spoke to all the themes we had spent the day exploring. It's like, bless your heart, but it's just, he must be the heart. An interesting combination of people. You got your Converse and your Get Up. You guys are a team, right? You work together? Yeah, we work together, yep. Are you, like...

Just business associates? We're colleagues, yeah. Yeah, we work together. Trying to put a relationship in? You strike me as being from very different backgrounds and here you are working together. You guys are a perfect example. Now, I'm just stereotyping and judging you. I'm not...

It's not, may not be valid. Heck, you guys could be a married couple. I wouldn't know. But looking at you guys thinking, okay, here's this nice little girl that's little, nice, quiet, shy. And then here's this, here's this dude that's just all decked out.

bling with the white watch and the white shoes. You guys work together just fine. Yeah, we do. We really do. So we are like, uh, complement each other. Yeah, though. I, so it's a politics podcast. Uh, I'm like a, it's called the run up. Okay. The run off, the run up.

Like running up to the election. Running up to the election. And so, where do I find it? Yeah, I host it and report it. ASTED is in charge of everything. We have like producers and like... ASTED, A-S-T-E-A-D. Oh, I thought your name was Farah Midadi. No, no. I can't believe. I'm like, where's he from? Is he from Africa? Farah Midadi. No, no, no.

Fair media. I think it's a very, very cool thing that what you're doing. So if I just Google the run-up podcast, you'll find it. Have a great rest of your day. We can definitely go now. Oh, yeah. This podcast is supported by BetterHelp.

That's the last run-up of 2023.

We'll be back with you every week until the election next year, including in Iowa, as voting there gets underway. There are two weeks and four days till the Iowa caucuses and 313 days till the general election. We'll see you next week. Happy New Year, y'all. The Run-Up is reported by me, Ested Herndon. It's produced by Elisa Gutierrez, Caitlin O'Keefe, and Anna Foley. It's edited by Rachel Dry, Lisa Tobin, and Frannie Kartoff.

Do you have questions about the 2024 election? Like, what's never made sense to you about polling? Or the Electoral College?

And why don't third-party candidates get more traction in our system? We want to hear from you. Email us at therunupatnytimes.com. Or better yet, record your question using the Voice Memo app on your phone and send us the file. That email, again, is therunupatnytimes.com. And finally, if you like the show and want to get updates on the latest episodes, follow our feed wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening.

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