The Dragonseed Deep Dive (with Kieran Bew, Tom Bennett, and Clinton Liberty) 01:04:39

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And now, Sleep Number smart beds starting at $999. Prices higher in Alaska and Hawaii. For J.D. Power 2023 award information, visit jdpower.com slash awards. Only at a Sleep Number store or sleepnumber.com. A toast to our new riders. The three of you are not of noble birth, but you have done a thing never dreamed of before now. I have entrusted you with a power only few have known. And I charge you to take it up with fealty.

I love when Rhaenyra's like, you have done a thing. Yeah. What must we do? How about, let's start with this, like zip it off, looking at you. Stop it with the comments. And also, you're eating so loud. Enough. Enough.

Welcome to the official Game of Thrones podcast, House of the Dragon. I'm Greta Johnson. And I'm Jason Concepcion. And today we're back to talk about all things dragons, including what it means to be a brand new dragon rider with a few of our favorite new characters from season two. It's the dragon seeds, a.k.a. Hua, Hugh, Ulf, and Adam. Okay, I'm going to do my best not to actually say Hua. Sorry about that.

Ah-hoo? Yeah, I like Ah-hoo a little better. Okay, all right. In any case, we are going to be joined today by the actors who play each of those characters, Kieran Bew, Tom Bennett, and Clinton Liberty. And I am here to tell you that every single one of them is just an absolute delight. And as always, there are many, many, many spoilers ahead. So make sure you're all caught up with the show, then come back to us. If you survive, you will be transformed.

A man or woman can face a dragon and be otherwise. It is only fitting that in an episode devoted to the phenomenon of dragon seeds and dragon riders that we first do our final check-in on our 129 to 130 AC House of the Dragon, Dragon Fantasy Draft. Team Greta, how we looking?

So, R.I.P. Sunfire, who, of course, was written by Egon. Otherwise, I still have on the court, I've got Bela writing Mood Dancer, Jace writing Vermax, Joffrey with Teraxes.

Rhaenyra with Syrax and Helena with Dreamfire. So that's, you know, mostly team black. But as we have discussed many times, a lot of little guys, which means I'm pretty sure you're still going to win this. But, you know. Well, you know, to be fair to your team, I think they're going to, you know, Dreamfire might get into action soon. Rhaenyra and Syrax certainly looking like they're chomping at the bit. Jace looks great.

in a cape and may mount Vermax one of these days. So it looks exciting. Can we put Jace in a cape in our season three bingo? He does just look so good in a cape. My guy's just serving capes all season. Sort of like regal murder cloak, you know? And then my team, I went with size instead of mobility. So Vhagar and Aemond.

I hate that I picked them. I hate they're on my team. They're performing for me, but, you know, a hard squad to root for.

And ended the season, you know, with a war crime, with a massive war crime. Then we've got Caraxes and Damon. They've just been hanging out, but wonderful to still have them on the team. R.I.P. Maylis and Rainis. It was tough to watch them go. Huge hit. Made quite an impact. Sad to see them leave. Seasmoke and Adam. Seasmoke back in the mix. Seasmoke said, you don't pick my rider. I pick my rider. Thank you very much, Adam.

Get on. Let's go. Silverwing? Yep. Silverwing and Ulf. Ulf taking a, you know, his mind-expanding joyride, the likes of which he never could have imagined himself taking. And Vermithor and Hugh, how do we feel about our teams? I would like to think my team's got a lot of potential. I think so. But I think, yeah, more to come, right? We're going to learn a lot with season three. Yeah, I'm feeling like my team...

Made a significant impact and certainly looks to be making an even further impact. That said, I'm a little concerned about some of my riders. And by some, I mean both. Concerned about them. I think that is a good point. I think that's a really good point. I'll take him on myself. Silver wings ago, she is.

We're afraid of nothing. You know who we... I guess we can wait till season three to add to the roster, but Darren and his dragon. Darren was looking quite adept. So let's see. We'll see what happens. Another dragon about to enter the ring. So I mentioned being a little concerned about...

One of my fantasy team members, Ulf. I think a lot of people share that concern. I think we all broadly share that concern. He is someone who should, in my opinion, maybe...

not be immediately holding the reins. Maybe there should be some sort of system in place just to make sure we're good. But, you know, Rhaenyra, she needs these riders and who am I to question the queen? But it brings up a good, interesting topic to talk about, which is

claiming a dragon. Well, right. I mean, especially in the context of what you're talking about, it's like Rhaenyra tried to kind of handpick someone she trusted, and that did not go well, right? R.I.P. Stefan Darklyn. R.I.P. to him. It's not like she gets to choose these people necessarily, and then she's left with this very ragtag bunch. Well, I'm glad you bring up Sir Stefan.

It did seem for a second that maybe he's got it. What do you think his mistake, if he made a mistake, was? I think the moment is when he sort of looks up and he's like, y'all, I did it. And

And that's when Seasmoke is like, fuck you, bro, no. Nah, yeah. He called it too soon. He should have just been humble for like 30 more seconds and I think it might have worked, right? I mean, what was your read on that? My read is his mistake was not being one of Corliss' sons. Oh, fair enough. I did it.

And not being the son of Corliss that Seasmoke had its eye on for a little while. I think that maybe Seasmoke was just sniffing to make sure that that wasn't a son. And then once got the full, you know, nostril full of the scent and was sure, it was like, okay, now we're going to burn this guy up. Sorry. Sorry about him, but we're going to have to burn this guy up. Greta, I must ask you.

Let's say you answer the call. You've got that silvery hair. You've always heard the kind of rumors about your lineage. You show up on Dragonstone. You get the little speech, the very, very brief speech. And then, you know, you queue up. Your method, what would your technique be?

Yeah, I don't think I would have gotten on the boat in the first place. You know, I could see myself going there for a free lunch. And then when there was no free lunch, I would try and slip away immediately. I thought there was going to be a continental breakfast. There's not going to be. Right? Yeah.

Well, now we are going to get some of our pressing Dragonrider questions answered. Joining us is Tom Bennett, who plays Ulf, and Kieran Bew, who plays Hugh, two very unlikely friends who won the same insane dragon lottery. Let's listen to our conversation with them. Kieran, Tom, thank you both so much for joining us. It's really fun to have you on the show. Pleasure. Thank you. Thanks for having us.

Let's start at the beginning. How did you all get cast to the show? What was the process like? Kieran, let's start with you. I was a massive fan of the first season and I was watching it dutifully as it came out. The crab feeder scene that Matt shot was absolutely stunning. And I was saying to my wife, look at Matt, look at him just having an absolute ball. Look at him. Look what they're giving him.

And I said, God, I want to do something like that. And being a big fan of Game of Thrones, I never imagined I'd end up in it. And I was filming a TV show in Cape Town called Warrior, which is on HBO. And Lonnie Perister, who directed Episode 7, was coming to Cape Town to shoot Warrior. He turned up for a cup of tea and said, oh, I might be going on to House of Dragon. And I think I might like you to come.

And, of course, that is just a nice conversation that sometimes people have at work. I had to audition like everyone else and I had to prove to Ryan and all the producers, a lot of people on this team, you can't just have someone say, hey, I want you on a job. And that's simply it. But in that respect, when Lonnie said it, I thought, no, you've cursed it. It's never going to work. I'm never going to end up on the job.

So I got sent aside and I got the character brief and I immediately saw all the reasons why they wouldn't cast me. And so I read as much as I could, as I could find. And I and I did my best. And I saw three painful weeks later, they called me and told me they want me to do the job. And it was I couldn't believe it, actually. So, yeah. Why did you think you weren't qualified to do it or that you wouldn't?

Well, reading something where the description of a character, the stature of a character is sort of so important and, you know, the size of somebody, the gravitas and the sort of, you can easily think they won't see me as that. And I think in

And honestly, in my experience, that most actors that I know scrutinize everything in such detail anyway, that you do see the things, the shortcomings that maybe you have. And actually, I think that leads to better work and more rumination and more specificity when it comes to actually working on the character. Also, like the odds. Honestly, the odds, when you're going for one of these jobs, the odds are against you. You know, it is hard to tame a dragon. It is hard to get on one of these enormous shows because there are so many fantastic actors out there.

So, Tom, I'm sure as you're reading about Ulf as well, you're thinking, yes, stature, gravitas. Stature, gravitas, drunk, grey, grey-haired uncle, lives in a tavern. Everyone knows he's a cop-out. He's a bullshitter. He lies. He looks very old. He looks rough. He does not look like a traditional Tarkarian.

So I'm like, oh, I've got a good shot at this. Yeah, I look old and drunk and I don't look anything like Matt Smith or Emma Darcy. So I've got a better shot at this.

But I never thought I'd get this. As an actor, my whole thing is fire and forget. You go into the room, you know the words, you do them as well as you possibly can, and the moment that door shuts, you forget it ever happened. Because 98% of the time, it's a no. You get used to that as an actor and you try not to take it personally. And so you do the job and you leave and you forget it ever happened. That makes sense.

I think it's been really interesting thinking about both of your characters in the arcs because I can imagine you telling people you're in this show, and especially if they're not book readers...

to kind of have that anticipation of like, "No, just wait for it. I swear to God, by the end of this season, it gets really exciting." But like, you know, it is a pretty slow build for each of you in a way that I imagine is pretty interesting just like as new actors on the show as well. I mean, I was quite pleased that people would see me in episode two and go, "Oh, that's nice. Well done, Tom. You were a glorified extra. You looked at the people that were hanging and you said, 'Oh, who are they?'"

Who are they? Rat catchers in the King's employ. What'd they do?

And then you left shot and people went, well done, mate. I'm glad you're in there. I'm well done. I'm really proud of you. You've been working 22 years for that. And so I was secretly quite pleased that people kind of thought I was just this extraneous flea bottom background character because it meant there was less pressure on me. And I knew a big secret that no one else knew, namely...

I fly dragons. Let's talk about those dragons. How far into the process did you become aware that your characters would be claiming dragons? I found out straight away because I immediately, when I got the sides, I just started researching it. And I'd already started looking at the source material before anyway, because I got so into the show. And also, again, because I thought, where the hell am I going to fit in? I don't know what, you know, the detail behind it, the history and everything. I didn't know where it might fit. And...

when I said I was in the show to people they said oh you're playing a Stark then because I come from the North England so people just naturally made that assumption so it's quite fun to say no I'm not doing that actually I'm doing something else but I mean Tom and I would meet each other every day at work and just laugh and say all right mate have you got a dragon oh I've

And we'd just laugh about it. And it didn't matter. The slow build of the characters as it rolled out is a massive gift as well, because you don't normally get to do that. You don't normally get to eke out little details quietly through a show. And Tom, I think Tom found out a lot later than I found out.

Did you? Kieran likes to research. Kieran likes to know things. I was going to say, you didn't read the source material, huh, Tom? I found out I drove a dragon when the costume department on my second costume fitting said, oh, so we've mocked up some dragon riding armor for you. And I said, sorry?

what do you mean when you fly the dragon you're going to need some armour and I said so you're saying I fly a dragon as a professional actor you find out 80% of the facts with the costume designer but yeah so I had a different experience than Kieran

I think both have merit in their own ways. They both have merit and they're both correct. So given the fact that so often with a season of a show like this, things are not shot in order, how quickly did you find yourselves on Dragons? It was quite a way through, wasn't it? We started in April and I know that because I started two days after my baby was born. I had a daughter and then ended up on set petitioning the king. Hugh, Your Grace.

The Smiths are all proud to support your grace against Rhaenyra. But... But iron costs have grown. And I'm standing in front of, you know, Tom and Wreath, who I'm big fans of, and the throne, obviously, dressed as a Targaryen looking like massive heavy metal Santa Claus. And I just sort of like... I thought I was going to have a dream. And then we didn't get to the dragons till, I think, August, actually. We did film relatively sequentially, except...

a lot of the throne room scenes got done in the first week because they had to dismantle that to bring in and build the buck in that studio for all the dragonriders so there's the machine of work is a phenomenal thing to look at anyway and again Tom and I did spend a lot of time walking around looking at the sets and

and taking pictures of the cranes for our sons to look at when we got home because they like to see tractors and trains and things and cranes. And there's a lot of that at work. Lots of pictures of scaffolds and tractors and cranes. For my kids. And we both got posters from the costume department with the dragons on them to give to our children, which was, I think, for Kieran and I, the best dad points we've ever earned. We both spoiled our kids rotten. LAUGHTER

It's like a theme park that no one else is allowed to go to. We went for a walk one night. We were doing the burn for the dragon, for Vermithor sequence. And they had to do the burn outside because they were burning so many bodies at once. Oh my God.

And so during that night shoot, we had a bit of downtime while they, you know, got 20 people paraffined up and protected, ready to flick the switch and burn them. So Tom and I went for a walk around the Red Keep. We went and played with a scorpion. We went to the Godswood tree. We went to the ships and the dock. And then we went to the wall and we looked out. We looked out over the...

It was amazing. And we just got to fan it up and look at all the faces in the godswood tree. And kind of, again, just every day when you drive to work, you feel like you're going into a magical place. That's so cool. We must talk wigs.

Both of your characters have the classic kind of Targaryen silvery blonde locks. What was the wig fitting like? What's it like acting in those things? I wouldn't say Ulf's got the traditional Targaryen locks. I'd say you look at Ciaran. You look at Ciaran on camera and he's got his long flowing white hair and his big beard. And you go, how does he...

Why does he look that good on camera? He's not that good looking in real life, but on camera, point the camera at him and he looks like a Norwegian Europop god. Whereas if you put a wig on me and people just start laughing, and I'm not trying to be funny, that's just what my face looks like. And my wig was kind of someone's second wig that we found in the wig bin. LAUGHTER

So essentially we just went through the lost and found wig box and went, well, that one fits. Okay, well then that's what you look like. So Kieran gets to look pure Targaryen and I get to look like a salt and grey peppered uncle. It fits the character. I don't know how much it costs to make you look that bad, but I think it's quite a lot. I know. Sweet, Kieran. Well...

When I came in, Roz, who does the wigs on the show, to talk about the experts for a second, she actually shot every single episode of Game of Thrones.

So she went right from the beginning of Thrones. So she did obviously did all the wigs for the first season of House of Dragon. And they had to match my color to Paddy and Matt's. So we looked at the tone of theirs and said, how close does it need to be? And then because I'm illegitimate and we don't know who my dad is, they threaded in a lot of my darker color into the front of the wig and dyed it. It's incredible the detail that they went in.

That's amazing.

And it takes them about 40 minutes. And I go from brown to, you know, big Targaryen lion thing. And it's mad, the transformation. The detail is, you know, they're experts. It's incredible. That's amazing. So I think it says so much about each of your characters, how you end up with dragons. I would love to talk through, like, when you first read those scripts and what it was like to actually...

make those scenes happen. I mean, especially with Ulf, there's a minute where you're like, oh, this dude's just fucked, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Ulf has an interesting, you know, path, which is for 30 years, he's just Billy bullshitted his way into having three pints of mead from visiting merchants.

And his lie, it's not a lot. You know, who knows how much of it is a lie or whether he was lied to, but he believes it enough to get three pints of drinks. And he's been telling this story for 30 years. But the moment that there comes a real temperature change in the room when his mates go,

Go on then. They're looking for blokes to fly a dragon. You told us for 30 years you're a Targaryen. Go and get a dragon then, you prick. Dragon! Yeah, no, I know. What? I know. I just, I can't, I can't be sure it's all true. You can't mean that you've been drinking...

At the expense of all these good people for a fiction. He's bullied into going and putting his neck on the line and possible cremation. Possible cremation. That's such a good way of putting that.

The fact that he sort of stumbles into having a dragon I do think is really interesting. Yes, I think the way we've seen dragons choose riders up until that point has been fairly beautiful and majestic stuff.

and manly and stunning and brave and courageous and I just sort of stumble through some dragon shit and accidentally put my foot through an egg and then Silverwing essentially takes pity on me.

Because she is a grand dame of Dragon World and she is a glorious, beautiful creature. And I'm, it's like Lady and the Tramp. She's the lady, I'm the tramp. LAUGHTER

Luckily, I rolled through some of her shit and piss on the way to putting my foot through an egg. And I think she took pity on me. And as lots of people have pointed out, you know, she's not seen another human for many, many years. And so she kind of went, he'll do it. He seems nice. He'll do. She just doesn't know any better. And Kieran gets to do very brave, shouty acting. And I kind of shit myself. So.

So, yeah, Ciarán, tell us about the brave shouty acting. Well, yeah, the brave shouty acting was a choice which I wasn't sure I was going to be allowed to do. And it's one of those funny things where you get these scripts and sometimes you think, can I add a swear word? Can I make this a little bit more sort of real and visceral and punctuate it with a bit of that?

And I just said, can I scream? I said, all right. The idea was that, you know, he was sort of coaxing the dragon and trying to sort of connect with it, almost like Rhaenyra. But Lonnie and the team built this phenomenal sequence from, you know, we were on the plinth at the top and that was days of doing that with Tom getting off knocked one side and me going down the stairs. Well, the bit at the bottom was four sections of like a continuous shot. And it was such a joy to do. We, it happened a lot.

than I think people might. I mean, it was a lot of takes, but each section was strung together as if it was one and they edited together as we shot it. And then we would watch it on an iPad, literally in the room. It was phenomenally quick. And,

And after all of that and the adrenaline and this beast that they kept referring to, the FX guys had an iPad that they could hold up against the room, which would show you where Vermithor was at any given moment. And it was, you would be in the front and it would almost shadow behind you. It was freaky. That's amazing. And what a toy. I mean, so we had all this to talk about and we would do all that. And then, of course, the dragon was actually two guys in blue with a big blue head. Yeah.

Lonnie breathing tenderly into the microphone. And the magic kind of has to be made. It's funny how it's really, really technical. Then when it comes down to it, it's actually really simple stuff. The adrenaline was going and he kept describing this space and this fire. And I said, there's no way after all of that, this guy is going to come down and gently talk to this beast.

And also it's terrifying. There's only one option. This thing can squash you. It can burn you. It can bite you. You are nothing. So you've got one chance. And also there's a thing about odds in that room. As soon as everyone starts burning, the odds actually improve for you to be able to connect to the dragon. And when I hide behind the rock and I find Parker, who's just there, I'm like,

you know, when she comes out in front of the dragon, it's interesting. People said, oh, so great. You saved the girl. I was like, yeah, but if she pairs with the dragon,

I die. So there are two things going on at the same time. And I think that's always prudent to remember with these characters is that you say, oh, they made a really good choice. And you say, yeah. And also preservation. So like the guy I just said, I think there's one thing to do and it's be as big as Vermithar and say, hey, I'm the same as you. So shut up. Come on!

You mentioned the kind of slow build of your characters, the arcs and the introductions into the main storyline. Kieran, for Hugh, it's been so interesting because he's really been a man who has lived for his family. And then we get this wonderful scene where he talks about his mother and the stories she told him. And then you realize...

He's going to go claim this dragon. And it's really the first thing that we've seen him do that he's doing for himself. Talk about filming that scene and that little monologue. Well, you know, he's been living an honorable life. He hasn't told his wife who he really is until his child has died. And there are no other options. He's exhausted everything he possibly can. And now he's trying to convince her. He's still trying to be in the marriage and say, I want you to understand what I'm doing.

And I want you to, he's trying to make the decision together. And she won't. And he's trying to say, look, I actually have better chance than you realize. But in order to, you know, in order to reveal that information, he's got to rip off the bandaid and say, the truth is that there's stuff about me that I don't want to tell anyone because I've been running from it. And it's a conflicting story. And it's a lot of pain. It's a lot of embarrassment. It's a conflicting thing of loving a mom and also hating what she brings. She worked in a pleasure house.

She was granted more freedom than most because of who she was and because rich men paid more to fuck a woman with silver hair. It's a huge engine to move forward with as well because, you know, I say to her, you know, if I do this, you know, they'll make you a lady.

You know, there's something about washing away the past. There's something about coming above being a bastard, being illegitimate, being on the outside of this family. He's been working in the system as a blacksmith, but he hasn't been, you know, it's like hating the system, but also wanting them desperately to accept him. So this is actually who I am. Oh, that's so cool. I mean, I think partly what's so interesting about

That framing that you're presenting is also the fact that, like, the mere fact of Hugh riding a dragon has so much potential to completely upend the system, too, you know? Yeah. I mean, he's observed the system from a completely unique perspective because he is an illegitimate creature.

child who has been rejected by it but has also himself rejected it and hidden it and it hasn't been that comfortable you know that's the thing he's

I feel that he's almost been trying to squeeze himself into a position that he's not. And who knows what happens when you get given the mighty power of a dragon. It's like, you know, here comes the Targaryen malady, you know, like, and how would it not, how would it not do that for sure? Or do something to you, you know? Well, I will say I have a lot more faith in Hugh and his honorability than I do, uh,

Sir Ulf, if you will. How dare you? How dare you? My mother is the queen. Dragonriders both. You and I, cut from the same cloth. It's a sacred inheritance of which you know nothing. Forgive him, my prince. He's not much use to the manners of court. Or any manners at all, I'd say.

I mean, Tom, partly I wonder just like there aren't many characters in House of the Dragon. There are more in season two, but like there aren't many characters who are just like complete agents of chaos and who get to just like walk into the room and just like fuck stuff up. And I feel like all

Ulf is definitely doing that. Yeah, you know, he's an instinctive, self-serving creature looking out for himself. And every opportunity is, what can I get out of this? I do remember sitting with other actors and I could see they were jealous because I got to say things that no one else gets to say to kings and queens and princes and princesses.

without losing their heads. But you can't take my head now because I sit on a nuclear warhead. So it's such enormous fun. It's such a pleasure to get to play Ulf in this sandbox where I shouldn't be allowed to have this much fun. Well, I think, listen, Ulf acclimated quite quickly to dragon ownership.

There was practically no transition time. Talk to us about filming that remarkable scene on the back of Silverwood for the first time where Ulf looks literally on top of the world. Oh, well, that was amazing. And that's the beauty of Ulf and a dragon.

You're going to see someone ride a dragon like you've never seen anyone ride a dragon before on Game of Thrones or House of Dragon. The entire oeuvre has never seen a dragon rider pooping and hollering and waving his arms about like a drunken cowboy.

Because usually we've seen Matt Smith, we've seen Emma Darcy, we've seen them all fly dragons. And the one thing they are is very beautiful. And they all do their sexy blue steel, I'm very much in control here acting. But you don't ever see someone from Fleabottom who suddenly gets the keys to a Lambo and gets a...

Rag it. And honestly, he feels like he's hot wired this thing. And he takes it for a spin around his old neck of his woods. And he wants his boys to look up and go, look at Ulf. He did get a dragon, didn't he? Are you all right, boys? How you doing? And so in the same way, you don't see many people smiling or laughing. You've never seen a dragon rider like Ulf. And I got to fly a dragon. I got to sit on a buck.

I got to break my 44-year-old spine in a backbend for six hours, covered in shit and piss. I wouldn't have wanted it any other way. I'm a very, very lucky boy. Wait, was it actual shit?

It's shit and piss. It's Silverwing's shit and piss. Whether they used real shit and piss, the props department didn't tell me. But it didn't smell great. Let's say that. That's interesting information. Tom, it's really fun talking to you and hearing what a pleasure it is to play Ulf because I really have kind of just hated him so far because he is...

Such a chaotic character. But it's great to talk to you because it does make me realize like, oh, no, he's just a pleasure. Like, this is just fun. But you are going to fuck stuff up. And that does stress me out. I mean, I don't know for sure, but I can guess. Yeah, I think they wanted. Yeah, I think it is fun to know that I might fuck stuff up.

And that's because, you know, that's because power corrupts and power corrupts completely. And you've given this piece of shit from Flea Bottom not only keys to a Lamborghini, but

But the nuclear button. And it's hard to know what he's going to do with that power. We'll see what he does with that power. There's nothing wrong with him. I don't know why everyone thinks he's a piece of shit. What has he done? He's chaotic. He is chaotic. He's fun. He's material. I want to ask Rhaenyra after...

Your two characters claim they're dragons. Rhaenyra has this wonderful family dinner to welcome them into the fold. And, you know, it tells them, hey, we're going to have to burn cities. And that means some innocent people are going to die here. And that's just the cost of doing business if we want to win this war. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Ciaran and Tom, how do your characters...

feel about that i think there's a reticence about it because up until then you know the magnitude of just walking in front of some dragons is is kind of immense and then i don't know how much any of them have really given any thought to beyond that like the i guess perhaps we thought it would be a deterrent you know are we actually going to have to burn

innocent people? Like, what do you mean? Like, she says we're going to go quite soon. She says like something like two days and we're like, literally just giving me some new clothes. Mm.

I've got a dragon and a new outfit and we've got to learn Valerian. We've got to get on and learn how to actually ride these beasts properly. And suddenly she wants us to go to war. I think it seems kind of rash. It's not something that sits comfortably. I don't think they'd really thought it through. Well, it does seem like the sort of thing where you would want some kind of protocol around like, you know, when you drive a car, you have to get a driver's license. But there's none of that at all. Yeah.

Learn your beasts and your commands. You'll fly in two days' time. The strongholds of the usurper, Oldtown and Lannisport, and their armies all must be subdued.

What does Ulf think about that? What does Ulf think about anything? When does Ulf think about anything? He's just an instinctive dog who goes, oh, yeah, you want to burn things? Well, I've got a dragon, so I could burn things. Is that what you want me to do? If I get to sit here and eat more of these little birds...

what the payment for that is me burning stuff. I can, I can do that. I can look after myself. Tom ate about 45 birds when we were filming that sequence. I've got to tell you, I hope you can see that we're both eating. I ate duck, but Tom was eating actual whole birds. Oh, and some more of these little birds.

over 40 guinea fowl and we filmed that scene for a day this is how method this is how method actually is yes real shit in the dragon they said they said do you want do you want do you want a spit bucket and I'm like no today I'm getting paid to eat guinea fowl and I will eat guinea fowl and the next day we had to we had to shoot more of that scene and

And I realised I still had to eat more guinea fowl. And, you know, I got a lot of actor points off the other actors that day. They'd never seen anything like it. They'd never seen a man of such average size and capabilities eat guinea fowl.

eat so much. Average spout. Didn't you say the day after that, you just had to lie down for about 24 hours? You just couldn't move. I couldn't eat anything that evening. I had to lie on my hotel bed and not move. I didn't get room service and I just had to lie there with my eyes open and hope nothing would happen until I fell asleep. And then I didn't have any breakfast the next day because I knew I had to eat another 12 guinea fowl. I'm

I'm very professional. Very professional. I said more of these little bows. Okay, so for our last question, we've been asking everyone if they themselves are Team Green or Team Black, and I would be very curious where you two stand on that.

I am team black. I'm team black. How can you not be team black? It's clearly people trying to steal the crown. I mean, it's... Yeah, I agree. I love the scene in episode seven where Alison goes off for a nice swim and she turns into Ophelia for a minute. Yeah.

Because she's, I mean, I just love that dawning that she's always been a pawn. And then suddenly, oh my God, they all fucking used me. And it's like the shock of that. And like, thank God she got out and went for a swim.

You know, anyway, I loved that. I thought it was so clever. I'm team black. I don't know how you can be team green. They're clearly trying to steal everything. And it's not right. Fair enough. It's a funny one. I mean, I'm team black. Yeah. I'm team black. I figured. And Ulf is team black because team black gave him a nuclear warhead and made him one of the most powerful humans on the planet. So Ulf is definitely team black.

Team HULF. Team HULF. We talked about this. HULF. We've spoken about this. Well, we also spoke about Big Daddy Dragon Energy. Yeah, we did, yeah. Kieran and I both have Big Daddy Dragon Energy. Big Daddy Dragon Energy. We're going to bring out yoga trousers, yoga pants. Little tight-fitting pants. Mugs. Men look good in. Daddies look good in. Hair bobbles. Because not all dads fly dragons.

We haven't worked out a tagline yet, but it's going to be big come fall 25. That's great. We just talked to Fabian Frankel. He's going to do a skincare line. Oh, is he? Have they got a title though? Have they got marketing? Have they really thought about the brand? It's called Consort. Consort.

Consort. Yeah, Jason actually figured it out. Oh, it's very fancy and highbrow, isn't it? Big Daddy Dragon Energy is going to shit all over Consort. Oh, my God. We're going to destroy Consort on Amazon. God, have they never seen Dragon's Den? Come on. Yeah. That is Consort. Jesus. Consort. That's not going to fly.

Well, gentlemen, it has been a joy having you here. Thank you so much for joining us and bringing the Big Daddy Dragon energy to the podcast. Oh, it's been a pleasure. It's been so glorious to be here with you. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you. Wow, what an amazing interview. Do you think Tom struggled to play Ulf? No. Do you think he had a tough time finding the character?

No, I mean, partly what I love about both of them is that it seems to me they were both just exquisitely cast. Don't you think? They just are those characters. It's perfect. Could not agree more. I mean, you know, and credit to them as actors, of course, but like. Yes. I mean, oh my gosh. And now we have a conversation with our final Dragon Seed, Clinton Liberty, who plays Adam of Hull. What is your name? Adam of Hull.

We are very excited to have another new Dragon Rider with us, Clinton Liberty, who plays Adam. Clinton, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here. Clinton, I follow you on various social media platforms, which has been so fun. You're posting all these fun videos of you on the way to set and with other members of the cast.

Were you a fan of the series? Oh, God, yeah. I don't think just a fan would do it justice. I was the fan. I used to geek out at all the Game of Thrones episodes.

And I remember watching Game of Thrones and watching House of the Dragon and just wishing one day, you know, if I could ever be on something like it, I would be so grateful. And to find out that I was going to be a part of it for the second season. It's still, I'm not going to lie, Jason, it still hasn't really sunk in yet. So just give me some time and then I'll let you know how I'm really feeling. But I'm a kid in a candy store right now. I'm so, so happy. Yeah.

It's so funny because, I mean, that's pretty much exactly what Hugh and Ulf said when we talked to them, too. I mean, it's such a fascinating arc just because, like, I mean, you all have such slow builds over the season. I could see it kind of being surreal still by the end of this one where it's like, wait, did that really happen? What does this mean for season three, you know? I remember just looking at pictures of, you know, all my... Because I tried and document everything on every set as much as I possibly could, you know?

And I remember just looking at, you know, some photos. And I was like, I remember filming that. But I still can't believe it's happening. And I'm watching it on screen. Oh, my God. I love that. When people found out, like my friends and family, because I didn't want to spoil anything. Nobody really knew anything about, you know, the books. It was only me.

So when they kind of saw me at the start, "Oh, he's a shipwright. Cool. He's in the show." It was only until, you know, Seasmoke chased Adam down, you know, and claims him, that everybody started to go, "Oh no, he's in the show! Okay!"

You okay? We see you. You're actually in it. Cool, cool. And then, yeah, everybody was just really happy about that. Oh, my God. That's so cool. Well, you're not just in the show. You get to ride a dragon. We watch you rise over the course of the season from a shipwright to the writer of Seaspoke. At what point did you know that was going to happen, and what is that like?

So I initially read the books because I love the books. And, you know, I knew that Adam was eventually going to have a dragon, but I didn't know how they were going to do it in the show. And I didn't know how they were going to sort of translate that to TV and television. So that was what I was excited about. But I remember after the audition, you know, and then reading the book and then finding out. And I was like, oh, my God, Adam.

Oh my god, my dreams are coming true! Like, the only thing I've ever wanted was to ride a dragon in Game of Thrones.

And I get to do that. And I'll never forget, you know, that call that I received from my agent. I remember just running up and down the street like a crazy person. And I know the neighbors must have been looking like, is he okay? I was just like, oh, freaking out. So, yes, we have many, many more questions about the dragon writing of it all. But I would love, too, to start with the relationship between Adam and his brother Alan, because...

You don't see a lot of, like, and not that this is an easy sibling relationship, but it does seem like they're able to, like, be vulnerable with each other and the stakes aren't super high between each other. Like, it's not super competitive. You know what I mean? Like, it seems like they're just sort of, like, going through it together in kind of a lovely way. Yeah. Alan and Adam, they're all they've had their whole lives, you know? So they really rely on each other for support and, you know, emotional support and mental support because they...

They could never really have that from Corlys, which made them grow stronger as a bond. And it's never been easy because they kind of both want different things. As you know, Adam wants to be a part of that sea snake heritage. He wants to be associated with the wealth of sea snake. But Alan wants nothing to do with that. So they kind of clash heads at that point.

But ultimately, it's the love that they have for each other and the bond that they've grown their whole lives that ultimately allows them to just, you know, kind of carry along and look out for one another, you know? Yeah, I love that contrast because it felt very brotherly to me, you know, where Alan is very dour, very serious, right?

doesn't quite see the upside of some of the breaks that he's having saved Corliss's life and now being raised to a pretty important position within Corliss's Navy. And then Adam being like, this is great! Right?

This is the best thing ever. Oh my God, this is such an opportunity. Come on. This is literally what we've been waiting for and you don't want to take advantage of it. Come on. It's so interesting to think about the contrast between Adam and Alan and how they feel about Corliss and how much that scene that you had mentioned earlier exemplifies that. Like, especially, like, not only is Adam like, dude, lean in, but also like,

In that scene, Alan is literally shaving his head so that, like, essentially, it seems like at least symbolically he's, like, hiding his heritage there, right? Compared to Adam, like, wearing this beautiful hair. Yeah. No, absolutely. There couldn't be more different.

Because I know Adam is thinking like, dude, if I had your silver hair, I would rock that everywhere and let everyone know who I was so I was never to be messed with. You know, I would have easy rides. I'd skip the queues. I do everything. And...

And I feel like that's the reason why he's grown the way he has, because Alan is completely different. Alan wants to build things by his own sort of hands. He doesn't want any association with Corliss. But Adam is like, why don't we just take what we can get? And it's quite interesting how the series progresses, because ultimately, Adam ends up kind of building this status of,

by himself in a sense, because, you know, Sea Smoke kind of chose him and that really doesn't have anything to do with Sea Snake as much. And you can see the bond with Alan and Corliss actually grow stronger because they're still of salt and sea, but now Adam is of salt and sea and fire. So the sort of contrast is actually quite interesting when you look at how they both developed. The Adam hair, you've been quite celebratory about.

of the hair on social media. Tell us about the wig and getting fitted for it. So I worked with Rosalia Calora and Kashaya Hines on building that hair. And for me, it was quite important to craft the hair in that specific way because that told a story as well. When I was asked how I wanted Adam's hair to look

I wanted it to pay homage to Corliss. He might not have silver hair, but he does have long dreads in a way that's styled in a similar way to Corliss. In a way for him, it's also another sort of

way to have a relationship with Corliss because Adam doesn't have any relationship with Corliss. He's never really spoken to him or had a conversation. Corliss has never acknowledged him. You know, all Adam wants is validation from his father and he's never had that. He's never had the opportunity to build a bond or a connection. And I feel like with the way the hairstyle is made, you know, with the dreads and how it's, you know, kind of pleaded back,

The hair wasn't just made to look cool. It was also made for storytelling purposes for the character. Let's talk about that amazing sequence in which Seasmoke chooses its own ride or chooses Adam. What was it like to film that sequence? It was fun. It was a dream come true because, you know, as a kid...

All I ever imagined was me fighting dragons and running away from dragons. And literally the whole day, I was just running. I was running and I was seeing this dragon in my imagination. And there was a whole crew there with me. I was having the time of my life on that day because it was so real to me. And I remember there was one shot. It was towards the end. I'm looking at Seasmoke. Seasmoke is looking at me. And I was like...

"This is my job, what is going on here? In what universe did they let me in here and just be a kid?" But it was really fun. I was really protected by the whole crew. Rowley and his team were amazing. They let me do all my stunts.

everybody was so trusting and welcoming. And, you know, Andrzej, our director, amazing director, he just guided me throughout the whole scene exactly how he wanted. So I felt like I was in really safe hands and I felt really, really trusted. And I felt taken care of as well, which for me as a young actor, it allows you to just be free and do your job to the best of your ability. So it was just an amazing day. Yeah.

That's really lovely. What do you think it is about Adam? I mean, this is the only instance, at least so far, that we've seen where a dragon literally is like, okay, you, I pick you. What is it about Adam? I mean, you talked a little about how hopeful he is. I imagine maybe it's some of that, but I'm curious, what's your read on that? I feel like we don't

know what the full combination, you know, is for the reason why dragons, you know, they allow riders to pick them or bond with riders. But I think some of the important factors in it is, you know, obviously there's the blood, but as you know, from unfortunately Stefan Darklin, like the blood isn't enough. Yeah.

So I feel it's also what plays comes into play really heavily is the essence of the person.

Because I feel like, you know, in this time of war and chaos and everybody's kind of dark and everybody kind of wants to get to power by all means. You have this sort of innocent guy who is also hopeful, but he's a good guy at heart. And I feel like that's something Seasmoke senses within him as well as having, you know, the blood flowing.

Because if you look back to Laenor, Laenor was just a lovely guy as well. You know, he was just awesome. He wasn't evil. He wasn't dark. He didn't have any sort of evil agendas. He was just a cool, nice guy. And I feel like Adam has the same vibe and same essence. It just all combines into making, you know, the rider that Seasmoke will choose. Let's return to that amazing scene.

in which, you know, Adam and Rhaenyra are talking to each other across this stretch of beach. They've got their dragons behind them. What is your parentage? My mother was a shipwright. My father is. No one of consequence. Your ancestors, any of House Targaryen? We're not the sort of family to keep annals, Your Grace.

Adam seems quite nervous and quite eager to put any nervousness that Rhaenyra might have at ease. What was it like preparing for that scene and shooting it? It's just an incredible way to open an episode. That was one of my favorite scenes to shoot. Emma is the best actor I've ever worked with in my life because I saw them change from Emma to Rhaenyra. And I was like, that is amazing.

So we shot Sea Smoke the day before and it was really sunny and really bright. And I kind of thought that's what was going to happen the next day. Because the next day I was shooting with Emma and it was just not. It was a massive storm. And it really added to the scene because the scene is quite tense. And the storm almost was a character as well with our dragons. It was my first time working with Emma. Emma really, really supported me there because, you know,

It's my first time working with the queen, but it's also Adam's first time seeing the queen. So whatever Adam was feeling, I was also kind of feeling. I was feeling scared and nervous. I didn't know how it was going to go. But Emma really carried me and helped me and supported me. And I'm so grateful to them for that. Yeah, I just remember being in awe of them when I saw them perform. I was like,

Oh my God. Like, because I remember watching season one, you know, and seeing Emma and thinking they were the best thing I've ever seen on screen. And then to all of a sudden, fast forward a year later, see them in front of you being Rhaenyra. It's like,

what is happening right now? That's so cool. It was really fun. It was really, really fun, yeah. Well, they are so phenomenal in that scene, too, because, I mean, you can see on Rhaenyra's face, she's like, is this awesome? Should I be worried? Like, there are so many different things going through Rhaenyra's head, and the way Emma acts that, with very few words, is so good. So good, yeah. They're amazing. And...

One thing I'm really grateful for is that they gave me the opportunity to explore the character in a way that, you know, I was able to pick up little nuances that they were giving me and I was able to sort of give it back to them, you know. Emma was there with me the whole day, you know, even when they weren't on screen, they were there supporting me, giving me all my lines and everything. And it was just...

I couldn't have asked for a better scene partner if I'm being, you know, really honest. Rhaenyra asks on the beach, what do you know of your parents? Adam protects Corlys, his reputation. Why does he do that? Because Adam is stepping into a world he's not quite familiar with.

He's not aware of the politics of what's going on. He's not aware of, you know, whose name to speak in front of the queen and whose name not to speak in front of the queen. So he's treading very carefully and he's learning as fast as he can. But he's also aware that the consequences are quite dire.

So if he says the wrong thing, he knows that if he brings Corlys into it or Alan into it, they could face heavy consequences as well. And that's not really something he wants to sort of start off because he wants a relationship with Corlys. And God forbid, if he says Corlys' name and that's a bad thing, you know, the relationship doesn't really start off to a good head. And if he says Alan's name, he doesn't want to bring Alan into any sort of horrible consequences that he might have to face, right?

So he's just kind of protecting his family and he wants to learn more about, you know, the way of the dragon riders and learn more about this world and feel a little bit more comfortable before he starts to, you know, start that conversation about his family and his heritage and things like that. So yeah, he's, he's just learning at this moment. And then, you know, it's not too long after that, that when Rhaenyra, uh,

needs to go to Harrenhal to have her long-awaited confrontation reunion with Daemon, that she takes Adam, which seems like this real amazing expression of trust. She could have taken any one of the other dragon riders, but she takes Adam. What does he feel about that?

I mean, he feels really honored. He feels chosen. He feels like he's at the right place. This is the home and the family he's always yearned for. And it also just happens that his father is also on the council as well. It's a special moment for Adam because now he feels chosen. And now it's up to him to see how he fares. Will he crumble or will he rise to the occasion?

I think he's definitely more likely to rise to the occasion than, say, Ulf, just for example. Yes. Ulf is just there to have a good time. Ulf is having the time of his life. How do you think Adam thinks of those two? I mean, it's a pretty interesting dynamic. I think even for me, like, I think of Adam as, like, I know they're all bastards, but

I don't know. Adam seems closer to the family, actually. I guess because, to your point, his dad is on the council. Yeah, yeah. I think Adam sees them in a sense of they still have a way to go. They're still learning, but he's unsure of how it's going to unfold.

with the both of them. Because Adam, as we saw in episode seven, they don't even have that long a dialogue. And he's like, yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you, Rhaenyra. Yeah, yeah. Because he's always known. He's always known where his loyalty was going to lie. But with these other two, you just, there's that sense of it's all starting off well now, but will it always be like this? And he's kind of keeping his guard on just in case because

Because when you get that dragon, he knows there's a surge of power that comes to your head. And you want to do different things and go in different directions. And he's aware of that. But the thing that ties him to Rhaenyra is the fact that, you know, he loves his father. He wants to have a relationship with his father. But he also knows that Rhaenyra is the rightful ruler. So he's following that code of honor. And he's just not quite sure if the other guys have all of that in mind as well. There's a quite...

touching moment after Adam has claimed sea smoke, or vice versa, really, to be more accurate, where Corliss comes to see his wayward and thus far unacknowledged son. And you can tell he wants to say a lot more, but he just says, well done. There's this moment of...

of silence where you feel mountains moving inside of Corliss and all that comes out is well done. Talk to us about shooting that scene. That was a great scene. I love working with Steve, you know, because I remember watching in Ireland season one of House of the Dragon and I remember seeing Steve and I remember just thinking, universe, if I could just get an opportunity to work with this man, I'd be so grateful.

And Steve Toussaint is just one of the nicest human beings I've ever worked with. I remember coming onto set being very nervous, but he was so welcoming. We just bonded so quickly. And in the scene, this is the first time, in my opinion anyways, they've ever had a conversation with each other.

You know, this is the first time they've ever been in a room alone. So as you said, mountains are moving. Like there's so much unspoken things that are going on in the subtext. He's never had Corliss' full attention just on him. So he's just trying to like get this thing out. And Corliss is also going through some things because Corliss

Adam, as he says, he's been ignored. He's always been ignored, you know? And I feel like there's too much happening in this one moment. So Corliss is just like, well done. But that well done, those two words, they're so significant for Adam because it's like a stepping onto the next stage of their relationship.

You know, they might just be well done. But for Adam, it's that validation that he's always wanted. And it's like a beginning of a whole new world for him. You know, he's got a dragon. Now, all of a sudden, he's talking to his father and he's serving the queen. So it's a lot of firsts for Adam. Yeah, he's just happy that that acknowledgement is there now. He knows I exist. I kind of thought of it as too little, too late. But I get what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I think we know the answer to this question, but we've been asking everyone. Who started you on, Team Green or Team Black? Team Black the whole way. Is that even a question? Oh, my God. Team Black the whole way. We're going after them usurpers. Trust me with everything.

Well, thank you so much for joining us, Clinton. This was delightful. Thank you for having me. Yes, thank you. That was awesome. Thank you so much, guys.

It's infectious, the energy. They're so delightful. That our dragon seeds bring to their parts and to being in this world. Well, and the whole thing. I mean, Jason, like, we finish the conversation with Clinton. We say, like, thank you, goodbye. And he's like, so how have your days been? Like, what a lovely human. It's like, oh, we're just all friends now. Are we friends? Holy cow. They're just all so kind. I know.

And that's all for today's episode. We are going to be back next Wednesday with an episode we are really excited about. We are going to answer some of your burnouts.

burning fan questions. No dragon fire pun intended. You can call in and leave us a voicemail at the following phone number. It is 212-830-3826. Yes, we want to hear from you. And in the meantime, you can rewatch every episode of House of the Dragon on Max. If you like what you're hearing, don't forget to leave a rating and review on your podcast player of choice.

And you can find us on the Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon social media handles. You can find me at netw3rk on X and Instagram. And you can find me at Greta M. Johnson on X and Instagram. The official Game of Thrones podcast, House of the Dragon, is produced by HBO in collaboration with Pineapple Street Studios. This podcast is hosted by Jason Concepcion and Greta Johnson.

Our executive producers for Pineapple Street are Gabrielle Lewis, Jay-Ann Barry, and Barry Finkel.

Our lead engineer is Hannes Brown, and Hannes also mixed this episode. Pineapple's head of sound and engineering is Raj Makija. Pineapple's senior audio engineers are Marina Pais and Pedro Alvira. Our editor is Darby Maloney, with fact-checking by Melissa Akiko Slaughter. And our producers are Ben Goldberg, Elliot Adler, Melissa Akiko Slaughter, and my lovely co-host, Jason Concepcion.

Special thanks to Michael Gluckstadt, Alison Cohen, Kenya Reyes, Savon Slater, and Erin Kelly from the Max Podcasting. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week.

Am I right in thinking that for the longest time you didn't know that Kieran and I were two separate actors? Yes, I did think you were this. I thought there was just the one character. No, I heard that. Did you think that that character put on his beard and then took it off again when he didn't want to have it on? Yeah, I'm very flattered. Kieran might not be so. It makes all that detail really worth it.

All that hard work. All that nuance. All that effort we put into those dual roles. See, that's why we need colour coordinated dragon pants. Yeah. Dragon pants will be available on Instagram after the episode airs.