Holy Smokes 38:46

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Sachi, I don't know if you noticed this in New York, but every new business in Toronto is either a weed shop or a vape store or some combination of both. Yeah, it's paradise. Every time I see one, I do wonder, are these businesses actually lucrative? I mean, I'm barely convinced they're all businesses, but go on. I know, none of it makes sense, and today's story takes the business of vaping to a very scammy new high. ♪

It's January of 2018, and we're at a party at the Waldorf Astoria in Beverly Hills.

The hotel opened just six months ago, and it's got a real new-money vibe. The event space has high ceilings, cream carpets, and huge windows. It's filled with rich businesspeople and minor celebrities, like Backstreet Boy Kevin Richardson. The party is being hosted by David and Jessica Bounivach in celebration of their 14-year-old daughter, Brianna. She's about to make her first TV appearance on a reality show called "Making a Model" with Yolanda Hadid.

Brianna is an aspiring supermodel, and Jessica is her self-described momager. Most of the guests at this party are friends of David's, and David has a lot of friends. Maybe they know him from another one of his lavish parties or from the prayer circles he hosts at his mansion in Calabasas. Maybe they met him at one of Brianna's equestrian shows.

Either way, there's a good chance they're also in business with him. David runs a weed vape company and has a habit of asking all his new friends if they want to invest in it. And when they get a glimpse of his luxurious lifestyle, it's hard for them to say no.

Well, you know how luxurious the weed vape industry is, Sarah. Yeah, it really is the height of glamour. And I imagine David taking a moment to really admire the party. There's a packed room filled with people who trust him. There's his wife talking to a tabloid reporter about their daughter. Maybe he feels a swell of pride. It's taken a lot of work for him to get here.

But no one in this room actually knows what kind of work David does. He's not the successful vape mogul he pretends to be. Instead, he's at the top of a brazen international Ponzi scheme. David Buna Vach might have built an empire on weed vapes, but it's all about to go up in smoke. From Wondery, I'm Sarah Hagee. And I'm Sachi Cole. And this is Scamfluencers. Scamfluencers.

Today, we're going to meet the king of fake it till you make it. David Buna Vach is a master of pretending to be a wealthy, successful businessman. In fact, he was so good that he kept scamming through lawsuits, investigations, and even arrests. This is a story of hazy lies, cloudy schemes, and seriously shady behavior. I'm calling it Holy Smokes. Legend.

Scamming wasn't David's first career. Back in the day, he was a young athlete on the rise. It's October 1997, and David's on top of the world. He's standing in the middle of an enormous sports stadium in Jakarta, Indonesia. He's here for the opening ceremony of the 19th biannual Southeast Asia Games, where he's competing in the decathlon. While it's not as big as the Olympics, there's still a torch lighting and tens of thousands of people in the stands.

Halfway through the ceremony, a marching band circles around the track while athletes from each of the participating countries wave to the crowd. When it's their turn, more than 500 Filipino athletes parade around the track, smiling and waving, wearing white suits and matching hats. One of these people is David. He's 28, and he's muscular and handsome in a jock kind of way. He's got a square head, chiseled jaw, and very intense eyebrows.

David was born and raised in the L.A. suburbs, but his mother is from the Philippines, and he's recently moved back there to reconnect with his roots. He's been doing track and field for a while. He was super competitive in high school, and at UCLA, he actually set a school record in javelin. But that wasn't the only record David built in college.

He also racked up three different convictions for theft and burglary. The court records for these crimes have been destroyed, but the Seattle Times reported that he spent time in jail and was sentenced to probation.

David maintains it was just petty shoplifting with his friends. David graduated from UCLA in 1993 and moved to the Philippines soon after. He later tells lawyers that, at some point during his time there, he paid the Filipino president a quote-unquote courtesy call and got to talking about his athletic skills. According to David, in 1994, the president personally invited him to join the country's track and field team.

I don't know a ton about the Philippines and how their government works, but I feel like this is not something that the president of the Philippines would do. Well, it all sounds like fantasy and maybe it is, but no matter how he joins the team, David goes on to win gold in decathlon at the Southeast Asia Games in Jakarta. But he's got bigger ambitions than just being on someone else's team. He's about to make a big move.

But to do it, he'll have to betray someone who puts her freedom in his hands. Not long after the Southeast Asia Games, David starts dating a woman named Anjanette Abayari. Anjanette is a former beauty queen. In photos, her wavy brown hair cascades past her shoulder, and her trademark pose is staring into the camera with a smoldering gaze. Just like David, Anjanette was raised in California by her Filipino immigrant parents.

She dropped out of college after getting a job as an NFL cheerleader. And she made a career as a full-time professional dancer and model, appearing in videos and concerts for artists like David Lee Roth and Prince. After moving to the Philippines, she became a fixture on the pageant circuit. Check out this photo of Versace. Yeah, she's very hot. Extremely 90s hot, too. Well, by the time she starts dating David Boonavich, they're a hot young couple.

He's a handsome athlete, and she's a model-turned-actress with a few movie and TV credits to her name. But in 1999, about two years after David competes in the Southeast Games, Anjanette's life takes a dark turn. She takes a flight to Guam for a gig at a karaoke lounge, and after her plane lands, she gets searched. Officials say they find crystal meth residue on a pen in her bag.

Angenette says the pen belongs to her sister, but it doesn't make a difference. She's banned from reentering the Philippines. Angenette is stranded in Guam for months and spends time in jail. Eventually, she takes a plea deal, pays a fine, and is allowed to leave the country. But since she can't go back to the Philippines, she returns to the United States where her parents live.

Meanwhile, in the midst of all this turmoil, David has completely ditched Anjanette. Out of sight, out of mind. He actually sparks up a new romance with one of Anjanette's closest friends.

David's new girlfriend is a woman named Jessica Rodriguez. Like her friend Anjanette, Jessica is also a beautiful brunette who used to compete in beauty pageants. She grew up in the Philippines and had a rough upbringing. Her parents divorced when she was young, and her mother was murdered when she was 15. Now, at around 30 years old, she's got two kids from a previous relationship, and she's making the shift from acting to being a talent manager.

According to Filipino gossip magazines, Jessica first met David while he and Anjanette were still together, and they had a lot in common. They were both beautiful, ambitious, interested in the entertainment industry, and very religious. With Anjanette banned from reentering the Philippines, Jessica and David don't waste much time getting together.

David and Jessica get married in the fall of 2000 after only about a year of dating. Then, in 2003, they have a daughter named Brianna. And just a few years after that, they do what all true celebrity power couples do: they open a business. David and Jessica pull together a few investors for a new cosmetics clinic. It's located in a ritzy business district just outside of Manila.

The clinic opens in 2006 and it's called Beverly Hills 6750. Kind of a weird name for a Filipino company, but David tells his investors it's because they're partnering with a famous American clinic called the Beverly Hills Surgical Institute. David's the CEO and Jessica's the marketing director. The clinic offers plastic surgery, dermatology, and even dentistry.

Later, when he's explaining the business to lawyers, David will say it offers all the cosmetic innovations a woman would need. As if that's not gross enough, there's actually a huge billboard for the clinic that says, Miss Ugly No More. It's an unofficial slogan, but it's also the name of a beauty pageant the clinic sponsors.

Listen, that sucks, but I kind of appreciate that they're just being direct about it. Like, why lie to me? Well, it is definitely a choice, but the clinic makes money. It's also giving Jessica's career a real boost. After Beverly Hills 6750 opens, she hosts the Filipino version of Extreme Makeover. She also appears on a TV show called Celebrity Duets. And Sachi, you know we're going to have to take a look at this clip.

What a choice. What a fucking song choice, honestly. My Immortal? Of all song choices, this song choice. Got it. Yes. I feel safe here. And on their wedding anniversary, David buys Jessica a brand new silver BMW complete with a red ribbon on the hood and a crowd of tabloid reporters to take her picture.

She weeps with happiness as the cameras flash. In public, it seems like David and Jessica are flying high. They've got a beautiful family, the clinic is thriving, and so are their careers. But behind closed doors, things are a lot messier, and that messy reality is about to get exposed. ♪

Just a few months after the BMW photo op, David walks into what he thinks is a regular business meeting. But once he gets there, he immediately realizes he's in danger. His business partners aren't there to talk. They're threatening him. In a deposition years later, David describes the scene. How were you kidnapped? I walk into a home. I had six guns drawn on me. Okay. And what were you told?

I was told to sign over my shares. — This 25 or 30 percent? — Yes, and I did. According to David, he was ambushed and forced to sign over his share of the business before making a daring, heroic escape. A friend who heard the story told the LA Times that David jumped out of a second-story window to escape.

It doesn't sound like something that could ever actually happen in real life. Yeah. It's cartoony. David's business partners actually remember the whole thing going down a little differently. They allege that David had been embezzling funds from the clinic and spending the money on first-class flights and luxury cars, like the silver BMW he just gave his wife.

And we don't know the details about exactly what went down, but it seems like David and Jessica knew they were in trouble because they leave the Philippines and move back to the U.S. with their kids.

By the time a warrant is issued for David's arrest, they're crashing at David's parents' house in Palmdale, California. For David, life as he knew it in the Philippines is over. But fortunately for him, he's landed in California. For someone with his good looks, charm, and questionable ethics, it's a land of boundless opportunity. And he's about to take full advantage. ♪

A few months after David and Jessica move their family to California, David's getting restless. So he starts taking business trips to Hong Kong, living out of a suitcase for weeks at a time and taking random meetings in hotel lobbies.

Around this time, David's supposedly running a coal mining company called Colossal Mining. His job is both boring and sketchy. Basically, he's supposed to be selling the rights to mining sites around Southeast Asia to private backers. But he doesn't make a single sale. ♪

The guy is floundering. After a few months of this, David decides to try something a little different. He decides to talk to his father, Joseph. Joseph is short with a receding hairline and a white mustache, and he's always rocking a gold chain around his neck.

He reportedly says he works for a company called Pegasus Sport Tours as a ticket broker for the 2008 Beijing Olympics. Sachi, do you know what ticket brokers are? I feel like it's like a middleman for some sort of ticket racket, and I'm afraid to learn what it is because I feel like it's going to make me mad. Yes, you are mostly right. ♪

So basically, the heads of the games always set aside a bunch of tickets to give to the competing countries. The countries are supposed to give them to politicians and other VIPs, but the tickets often end up in the black market. Joseph claims the Spanish and Hungarian committees sell him a bunch of their tickets, and then he reportedly resells them to other people at a markup price,

A lot of the time, the people he resells them to are also ticket brokers who basically just do the same thing, which is how the tickets end up being so expensive by the time they get into regular people's hands. David tells his dad he wants in on the family business. And pretty soon, they're heading to Beijing to meet up with a ticket broker from Atlanta.

His name is Gene Hammett. Gene has broad shoulders and a soft face. He looks like he'd be an extra in a boardroom scene from The Wolf of Wall Street. He's an executive at an event management company, and he's used to making big deals for event tickets. Gene later says that Joseph and David sell him almost 2,000 tickets to the Olympics, and that he makes almost $300,000 reselling them. David, who's a

David's dad, Joseph, by the way, denies selling these tickets. David takes Jean to the Beijing Olympics and gets some seats in a private box where they watch Usain Bolt break a world record.

David is a former decathlete, and getting to watch this historic milestone is probably pretty significant for him, now that he's got the money and influence to be at the Olympics. But Gene doesn't know what makes this moment so poetic for his new friend. In fact, he doesn't really know much about David, except that he's a Christian, since the two of them pray together. But Gene's about to learn just how far David is willing to go to get what he wants. ♪

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On the last day of the summer Beijing Games, David comes to Gene with another business opportunity. This one seems even better than the last. David says he has a bunch of tickets for the 2010 Vancouver Winter Games. These tickets are for some of the most in-demand events, like the opening ceremonies and the gold medal men's hockey game. He tells Gene he's getting about 275,000 tickets and Gene will get 17,000 of them.

Gene thinks he's in for a massive payday, and he's willing to do whatever it takes to secure the deal. David says it'll cost $112,000. He says he's taking a bunch of important Olympic officials on a five-day trip to Vancouver and Whistler. He also tells Gene to keep all this a secret since they're dealing with government officials and ticket brokering's kind of a legal gray area.

Gene sends David enough money for airfare, hotel suites, meals, and even spa treatments for his VIPs. He probably tells himself it's just the cost of doing business. We reached out to Gene via email, and he declined to comment, citing an upcoming documentary he's appearing in.

I feel like we hear these stories all the time where people think like they have to incur these costs in order to like engage with some sort of hopefully successful business practice. It never works. No. And for the next year and a half, this pattern keeps repeating. David tells Jean he needs more money to secure some part of the deal and Jean sends him whatever he wants.

By January 2010, he sent David a total of $2.9 million. And David has sent him absolutely nothing.

When Gene confronts David and asks whether the tickets even exist, David gets defensive. But then he sends Gene some wire transfer records that make it seem like their sale is finally going through. And Gene believes it. So he starts making his own deals to resell the tickets to other brokers. He gets millions of dollars from other people who are expecting to get a big batch of tickets any day now. But a month before the 2010 Winter Games, David's

Gene still hasn't received any tickets. David finally calls him and says he has some bad news. There's a problem. He doesn't think he can get Gene the tickets after all. It finally hits Gene. He's been scammed. He paid David millions of dollars he's never going to get back. And all of his clients are furious since they've been scammed too.

Gene gets sued by all the people he'd promised tickets to, and eventually his business folds, he loses his house, and declares bankruptcy. Oh my God. I can't believe how much David sucks. He's so shitty. But in 2014, four years after this all goes down, Gene sues David and the case goes to court.

Bank records start to surface, and Gene finally gets to see where all his money was going. Instead of using it to pay for tickets, David went on expensive shopping sprees at Tiffany and Neiman Marcus, gambled at casinos, and took spa trips and resort vacations.

At one point, he transferred $125,000 of Gene's money to his account at the Bellagio in Las Vegas. Oh, and remember those wire transfers that David sent Gene when he started to get suspicious? Turns out, David just straight up faked them. And I don't mean using Photoshop to switch a few numbers around. He went full arts and crafts. He used a letterhead from other bank documents to collage together brand new ones. ♪

Eventually, David and Jean settle the lawsuit. David is ordered to pay Jean $325,000, which is just a fraction of the money he's lost. It's not clear why the settlement is so small, but knowing David's spending habits, it seems possible that's all the money he can actually pull together. And for Jean, who's out millions of dollars, a little is still better than nothing.

David's gotten away with the most brazen scheme of his life, leaving a huge amount of destruction in his wake. And the fact that he barely faced any consequences is only going to make him bolder.

It's about a year later and David and Jessica have recently moved to Santa Clarita, California, a wealthy suburban city just north of Los Angeles. They've started to make friends here and they become close with one couple in particular, Tom and Meredith Danford. Jessica met Meredith at a Pilates class and their husbands became fast friends too.

Meredith is tan and chiseled with long blonde hair. Her husband, Tom, has brown hair, a piercing gaze, and symmetrical features. He bounced around a bit before landing in the business world. When he was young, he tried acting, and in his 20s, he worked in the marketing department of a record label. In the 2000s, Tom started working in tech and made a lot of money doing it.

They all start hanging out together multiple times a week. They go swimming and golfing at private clubs, charter expensive yachts, and vacation together in places like Palm Springs. Their kids become best friends. Tom and Meredith tell David and Jessica about super personal stuff, like how they met when they both entered recovery for substance abuse.

there is one thing that kind of sticks out to Tom about his new friend. Tom is used to hanging out with other rich people, but this guy is on a whole other level. David drives a yellow Lamborghini and constantly has a new Porsche in the driveway. His wife, Jessica, has a closet full of Birkin bags, Hermes clothes, and pricey jewelry. And

And their daughter, Brianna, is an equestrian and model who rides a $330,000 horse named Vondell. David and Jessica also have a social circle full of C and D-list celebrities, like the actor Ryan McPartland and the Backstreet Boy Kevin Richardson. They invite lots of their friends over for weekly prayer nights. Sounds like fun, eh, Sachi? No. No, it does not.

One day in 2015, about a year into their friendship, Tom and David are hanging out at the swanky Paseo Club in town. As they sip their banana chocolate protein drinks at the pool, David tells Tom more about the business that seems to have made him fabulously wealthy, a weed vape company.

For the last few years, David's been running a company whose business model is to import cheap vape pens from China, fill them with high-quality cannabis oil, and resell them. Medical marijuana is already legal in California, and the state is on the verge of legalizing recreational weed. Tom knows there's a ton of money to be made in this industry, and now David is offering him a way in.

What Tom doesn't know is that the weed vape business is a Ponzi scheme. Tom gives David $20,000 as an initial investment. Two months later, David gives him the money back with a 12% return.

When David offers Tom a chance to do the whole thing a second time, he says yes and again returns a profit. Everything is going so smoothly that when David asks Tom if he wants to buy a stake in the company, it seems like a no-brainer. Tom is all in. He cashes out most of his family's savings and puts in $200,000.

I can appreciate that this is happening kind of at the beginning of an industry boom around vapes and all of that stuff when putting your money in something that feels a little untested is sort of how you do it. Yeah, so I get it. I get it. But it is risky. Yeah, I mean, this seems like the beginning of something that could be so lucrative if it works out. And David promises Tom he'll pay quarterly dividends. But when that first quarter rolls around, there's no money. ♪

At first, Tom gives David the benefit of the doubt. They're best friends and David's never steered him wrong before. But as time goes on and David keeps stalling, Tom starts to get suspicious. Eventually, Tom asks David for his money back and David responds by telling him to lawyer up.

Tom is confused and hurt, emotionally and financially. He had the rug pulled out from under him by one of his closest friends, and he's got no idea why. What he doesn't realize is that this is becoming David's trademark, getting close to his victims and then ripping them off for money he'll never pay back.

It's a brutal and deeply personal scheme, and the stakes are only getting higher.

It's 2016 and David's doubling down on his fake vape company. His favorite marks are people who know him IRL. Parents of his daughter Brianna's friends, business bros he's met in his travels, and even his own dentist. The pattern is always the same. David pulls in new investors, gains their trust, and takes their money. At first, when someone asks for their money back, David's the one to answer.

David Stahls. He says he's taking out a second mortgage against his house, or that he's in the hospital, or that his partners overseas aren't communicating. And once his victims finally figure out they've been duped, they usually sue David.

They report him to everyone, from local police to the FBI, and even the Postal Inspection Service, which is basically the post office's police force. And actually around this time, David gets arrested by the LA County Sheriff's Department. He's charged with grand theft after a pair of former investors filed complaints against him. He's sentenced to more than a year in jail.

But guess what, Sachi? After pleading guilty to two securities felonies and paying more than three quarters of a million dollars to his former investors, his jail sentence vanishes. Oh, and he pays using money he's raised from other investors.

Classic Ponzi shit. But it gets even bolder. He registers businesses with names that are basically identical to real ones so he can seem more legit. Like, okay, Sachi, there's a real company registered in California called Grenco Science. They make a weed vape called the G-Pen, and they have a partnership with Snoop Dogg. So David starts a company that's also called Grenco Science, but he registers it in Nevada.

For potential investors, it's basically impossible to tell the difference between the two companies. At this point, David is really good at his scam. And even though he's been caught multiple times, it kind of seems like he might never face any real consequences. In fact, things are going better than ever. A few months later, in June 2018...

David and Jessica move the family into a Calabasas mansion that once belonged to Kylie Jenner. Their rent is $18,000 a month. Jessica's also been busy with her YouTube channel, The Polished Woman, where she gives Christian-themed advice on sex, marriage, and dating. Around this time, she also self-publishes a companion book called...

Date Like a Girl, Marry Like a Woman, The Polished Woman's Guide to Love, Romance, and Sex. Everything about this book is amazing, but there's one thing in particular that kills me. There are tons of rules listed in the book, and number 17 is a friend's ex is never an option. Oh, right.

Lofty! But their real shot at fame lies in turning their daughter, Brianna, into an influencer in any way they can. David spends more than a million dollars on Brianna's equestrian career, flying her around the country to different shows. But something way simpler ends up kickstarting her into small-scale fame. She starts an Instagram account.

And after making just five posts, she gets scouted for the Lifetime show, Making a Model with Yolanda Hadid. Remember how they were celebrating reality TV fame at the Waldorf with my favorite Backstreet Boy, Kevin Richardson? Ugh, I do love him. The Boonavatches are this close to successfully faking it until they make it. But

But while David might be envisioning a lifetime of consequence-free scamming, it turns out that a few agents from the L.A. County Sheriff's Office and the FBI have other plans.

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A month later, a journalist from a Filipino newspaper does a series on how celebrities are spending their time in quarantine. The first family to get a glowing profile? You guessed it, the Buna Vaches. Jessica tells a reporter they spend days working out at their home gym and watching movies in their home theater. Sachi, can you read this truly unbelievable quote from Jessica? Yes, it says...

I know that a lot of people are hurting emotionally, financially, and mentally because of the virus. But somehow this quarantine is relaxing for us and really brings us closer and makes us appreciate life. Wow. I love that she said that. It was necessary, and I bet it made a lot of people feel really good about how they were feeling in the pandemic. If I had been scammed by David and I read that...

I would find a way to ruin their lives beyond what they could ever expect to happen to them. Sure, sure. But it's not just the press that's curious about David and Jessica's lifestyle.

A detective with the L.A. County Sheriff's Department decides to launch a fraud investigation and starts combing through the couple's bank accounts. He discovers pretty quickly that David was never buying vape pens in China. Instead, he was taking investor money and buying all kinds of luxury items in the U.S.,

According to the LA Times, he spent more than $8 million at Vegas resorts and charged more than $11 million to credit cards. David even used investor money to throw Brianna a $200,000 Sweet 16 party featuring a performance by the rapper, A Boogie With Da Hoodie. Unbelievable. And he paid $65,000 to throw a 50th birthday party for Jessica. The theme? Crazy.

Crazy rich Asians. David and his family are living large, but the party is about to be cut short. In April of 2021, the L.A. Sheriff's Department raids David and Jessica's Calabasas mansion. They head straight for David's home office, where they scoop up laptops, phones, and electronic equipment, plus a bunch of stock certificates, receipts, and bank statements. ♪

The FBI, IRS, and SEC join the investigation. There's so much evidence, and David's ripped off so many people, it takes nearly a year for them to issue a warrant for David's arrest. But in 2022, it finally happens. The charges are too big for David to weasel out of. He's hit with federal securities and wire fraud,

accused of tricking his investors out of $35 million. He pleads guilty on all counts.

At his trial, people from all corners of his life come forward to give victim impact statements. It's like a who's who of David's scamming career. Remember Gene, the guy David duped into investing in his Olympics ticket scheme? He came to court to talk about the betrayal. Sachi, can you read these quotes from his statement? He said, "'Everything he said, I trusted him. He called me his brother. He prayed with me. I want you to understand that it's so much more than money.'"

It's sad. That makes me sad. That is really sad. You know, he manipulated him on a very deep and spiritual level. And that is so sickening. Yeah. And I guess it's also like a reminder that one of the effects of these scams is that you just feel stupid because you trust these people and you have personal relationships with them and then they fuck you over. Yeah. And Jean describes the pain of watching David party on social media. Yeah.

He says he once saw David brag about spending $80,000 on a mattress as he was struggling to lift himself out of bankruptcy. Gene ends his statement by begging the judge to protect the public from David by locking him away. Next, Tom takes a stand. He was David's close friend and his mark in the weed vape company.

Tom says David uses faith and friendship to manipulate people. He also says David stole his family's life savings and his children's future and ability to trust. Even David's former dentist, who lost $800,000 in the vape scheme, comes up to talk about what happened. He calls David cold-hearted and sociopathic and says he's, quote, a different level of crook.

After all this, David submits a letter to the court saying he's extremely sorry. David has always been able to sweet-talk anyone who stands in his way, but he's finally encountered someone immune to his charm. The judge says it's the least convincing apology she's ever heard from a defendant.

David is currently serving a 17-year sentence at the Terminal Island Low Security Federal Prison in Los Angeles. He's set for release in 2037 when he's around 68. And he's ordered to pay back the $35 million he owes his victims, though at this point, everyone knows that money will probably never show up.

Jessica has not been charged with any crime and she maintains her innocence. She's told the LA Times that she too was a victim of David's schemes. Now, she mostly stays quiet about the case. She has an Instagram called Wake Up and Pray with Jess, where she gives inspirational messages like this one. If you start thinking about it and comparing yourself to every successful person, you'll just spiral down and be more insecure.

You'll never make it because you'll be filled with envy and doubt and jealousy. Oh, and Jessica appeared with her daughter Brianna on an e-network show about moms trying to manage their kids' careers. The show is called Raising an F-ing Star. Brianna's got more than 50,000 Instagram followers, so maybe she'll be able to build a career outside of her father's shadow.

Sachi, you know, we cover Ponzi schemes quite a lot. But what was so crazy to me about this scam was that he got close to people in order to target them. He pretended to be so Christian for these people, these people who seemed so innocent and were just like, cool, a new couple to pray with.

Yeah. I mean, that's part of it, right? Like they're using religion to create that intimacy. It becomes so much harder to say to someone, I think you're full of shit if you guys share something that important. Yeah. You know, this guy was so good at scamming that there were no real huge red flags for these people he scammed. It really was just like, oh, I guess you shouldn't trust anyone ever. Yeah.

I mean, I like that. That's how I've been operating. I guess it's a testament to, like, if you're new in an industry, you can really get a lot of people to give you money if you're selling something that's, like, untapped, unregulated, and kind of muddled. You know what? This is a broader lesson I'm learning, that there is no such thing as a good investment opportunity. I mean, that's functionally not true, but...

No, I mean, it's functionally not true, but like, is it worth the risk? I don't know. I think I'm okay just like making money the normal way by podcasting. Well, I can't wait to tell you about how notoriously stable and secure podcasting is, Sarah. You're in for a ride. This is Holy Smokes. I'm Sarah Hagee. And I'm Sachi Cole. If you have a tip for us on a story you think we should cover, please email us at scamfluencers at wondery.com.

We use many sources in our research. A few that were particularly helpful were how an L.A. grifter ripped off his best friends and got rich with his sprawling weed scams by Michael Finnegan in the L.A. Times, and Broken Rules, a failed deal and a frenzy over Olympic tickets by Steve Miltich, Christine Wilmson, and Christy Heim in the Seattle Times. Emma Healy wrote this episode. Additional writing by us, Sachi Cole and Sarah Hagee.

Thank you.

Our managing producer is Matt Gant. Our senior managing producer is Ryan Lohr. Our coordinating producer is Desi Blaylock. Kate Young and Olivia Richard are our series producers. Our senior story editor is Rachel B. Doyle. Our senior producer is Ginny Bloom. Our executive producers are Janine Cornelow, Stephanie Jens, Jenny Lauer Beckman, and Marshall Louis for Wondery. Wondery.

If you like Scamfluencers, you can listen to every episode early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.