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Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Scamfluencers early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or Apple Podcasts. Hi, Sarah. Hey, Sachi. Can you believe we put on an entire award show last week? You know, I can't. And it was magnificent. We did an amazing job, in my opinion. We did a great job. They should let us host the Oscars.
Well, we gave out a lot of awards and we revisited some of our absolute favorite scammers. But there's one thing that's bothering me, which is that we just didn't have time to honor one of the biggest, loudest, most outrageous names in the game, Flo Delis. I want to take this moment to honor Flo Delis' immense talents and contributions to the field. Because who else do you know that fostered 37 kids, became a gospel superstar, and even won a seat in Congress? She's a legend.
So to continue celebrating our one-year anniversary of the show, we're going to rerun Brazil's Supermom, parts one and two. We'll be back with brand new episodes starting April 17th on Wondery Plus and April 24th on the public feed.
Sarah, do you remember Octomom? Um, how could I forget about Octomom? Okay, remind us who Octomom is. She's a woman who made the bold choice to have a bunch of kids at once. Right, she was pregnant with eight children at the same time. Well, I'm about to tell you a story about a mom with 55 kids.
Her name is Flodalise de Souza, and she's got this saintly reputation in Brazil. In fact, she's known as the mother of the nation because she's not just a super mom. She's also a pastor, a gospel star, and a member of Congress. Brazil's a big country. There's a lot of people there. Yeah. And she populates a third of it. Yeah.
Well, you know, listen, it's obviously not easy, especially after her husband dies. He was also a famous evangelical pastor, Anderson do Carmo, and he was only 42. Anderson's funeral is held a few miles from Rio de Janeiro on a clear June day in 2019. The cemetery's rolling hills are dotted with palm trees,
And the funeral is packed because there are like 2,500 mourners that gather to pay their respects. Sorry, 2,500 mourners? Yeah, that many. Because Flota Lise and her husband are a really big deal in Brazil.
She's like a combination of a couple of really, really famous women. Like, she's got the Tammy Faye Baker sort of pastor vibes. The Bible says that when you fall down, you'll rise again. But she's got the voice of Celine Dion. I'm going to be finishing Vegas. It's going to be emotional. She looks a little like Rosario Dawson. Hi, I'm Rosario Dawson. And her reputation is like that of Mother Teresa. I don't believe that there is any human being who doesn't believe in God.
Okay, so she's like the ideal woman doesn't exist. Oh, she does. It's Flo Delis. Flo Delis is an icon, man. So this huge crowd gathers around Anderson's grave and his casket is polished wood. It's this elegant custom made piece. And it even has this like gold plated Bible on the lid. So, you know, he's important, right? Yeah.
Flo Delis arrives late, and when she shows up, it's like the sea parts for her. And they make this human corridor leading to Anderson's grave so that she can get there. She's wearing a black skirt and a blouse under this Chanel-style tweed blazer. And it's impossible to see her expression because she's wearing these oversized glasses and she has these caramel-covered bangs covering her face.
As Anderson's coffin is lowered into the grave, Clotelise leads the crowd in a song. And then she leads a sermon. But throughout the service, Clotelise looks distant, distracted. There's no sign of tears. There's none of that passion that gained her millions of followers around the world. It's possible she's just in shock.
Because, see, her husband, Anderson, he died in an attack, an assassination. He was sitting in the car in the driveway of their house when he was shot 30 times.
Oh my God. Okay, so the closed casket makes a lot of sense. Anderson's murder is a really public tragedy, but it doesn't exactly bring Flo Delis any sympathy. Instead, it casts a dark shadow over Flo Delis and her children. And it raises serious questions about the woman who built her empire on a saintly image of charity.
By the time the funeral ends, police have gathered outside the cemetery. The mourners assume they're here for security, but the cops have a different motive. They search the crowd and they close in on a suspect. And the sanely image that Flo Delis worked so hard to build, well, it'll be tarnished forever. From Wondery, I'm Sachi Cole. And I'm Sarah Hagee. And this is Scamfluencers.
Sarah, I cannot stress enough how truly bizarre every aspect of the story is. But at its core, it's about what I think is the most insidious type of scammers. These are people who are like masters of spin because they manipulate the parts of us that just want to believe in something. So it's not just a scam around like money or power, but it's also a scam about religion and faith.
This is about how Flo Delis turned religious zeal, a great singing voice, and a boatload of public relations savvy into an untouchable reputation, which she mined for every penny she could. And that reputation was cover for some truly unforgivable sins.
am very scared. This sounds a little bit spooky. Get ready, because this is a two-part series like none we've done before. We're following an evangelical megastar whose rise to power and catastrophic fall from grace are nothing short of biblical. This is episode one, Mommy Dearest.
Sarah, what do you know about Brazil? I know it's a highly populated country and its ethnic origins are really from all over. I do know a lot about their beauty innovations. There's so many treatments that have the word Brazilian in front of it. Yeah. You get a Brazilian blowout, a Brazilian butt lift, a Brazilian wax. Like it's a sexy place. Yeah.
Well, the part of Brazil where Flo Delis is from is the opposite of glamorous. It's rough. There's a lot of poverty and a lot of crime. And Flo Delis grew up right in the thick of it. In a neighborhood of Rio de Janeiro called Jacarezinho.
The neighborhood that Flotelice is from, it's actually a favela. It was originally settled by formerly enslaved people looking for refuge from slave patrols in the late 19th century. So the population now is still mostly Afro-Brazilians, much like Flotelice's. So, I mean, she's not growing up as a member of, like, this elite class of people. No, not at all. She had a pretty rough upbringing. And she witnessed some really awful things growing up. I found her talking about it on Instagram. What's up?
Okay, I actually don't speak Portuguese yet. What is she saying? So I have a translation. Flotelice is saying that a lack of government programs led to a rise in violent gangs and that children are the ones who suffered the most.
Flotelise knows what she's talking about. When she was a kid in the early 1960s, drug gangs took over her neighborhood. But something else took off too, the Pentecostal church. Both of Flotelise's parents are part of this wave of people in the favela converting to Pentecostalism. Now they belong to the Assembly of God, which is the biggest Pentecostal church in the world. Pentecostal church services are pretty boisterous.
There's a lot of singing and dancing and speaking in tongues. Okay, so is this where she learns to sing? Yeah, it is. Her parents are super active in the church, and her mom runs a daycare out of their house where they watch like 100 neighborhood kids. Oh, so like 55 kids is totally not a lot to her. Apparently. And her dad is an artist and a musician. He paints angels on the ceilings of churches, and he plays an accordion in a Christian group.
Flotelise loves her dad. She follows in his footsteps by leading prayer groups. But she also takes things one step further. This is kind of Flotelise's thing, you'll see.
As a teenager, she starts evangelizing in the streets. She tries to save gang members and drug dealers. By saving them, she means... Converting them to the church. Okay, that is very bold. And I need to know, does it actually work? Sarah, you're not going to believe this, but it actually does. Because even as a teen, she's really charismatic. People are just drawn to her.
But then, when she's 15 years old, her father dies in a car crash. In her grief, Flotelise throws herself even deeper into her faith. So she and her mother rent out a vacant storefront and start their own ministry. And before long, they gain a loyal following. And a lot of it is because of Flotelise. She's so passionate and has this mesmerizing voice, and her influence is about to get even bigger.
Okay. So let's fast forward a bit to the early 90s. Now, Flo Delis is in her early 30s and she's working as a kindergarten teacher and she's raising three kids on her own. And by the way, nobody knows anything about her first husband. Her family says he went to the North. I don't know what happens in the North, but doesn't sound good. Okay.
Okay, I'm sorry. So she just has this husband who disappears. He's just gone. We don't ask any more questions? Okay. No more questions, no follow-ups. Well, meanwhile, Flo DeLise and her mom's ministry is still going strong. But the neighborhood is taking a turn for the worse. Cocaine and automatic weapons are flooding in. Rio becomes one of the murder capitals of the world, with a lot of that crime happening in the favelas.
Flodalee sees kids dying of drug overdoses and she feels called to help. So every Friday at midnight, she leads volunteers from her church through dark alleys and desolate street corners.
They're looking for young people to convert. It's mostly gang members. So she's like, hey, you know what we should do on a Friday night at midnight is just go up to people and convert them. Yeah, I mean, she's out here saving souls. There's one story in particular that she loves to tell about this time. She says that one night she comes face to face with a drug trafficker named Cocada. He's
His goons, who are armed with machine guns, circle around her. But Flo Delis, she doesn't bat an eye. She actually starts yelling at them. She says, if my God wants to, he'll turn you into a leper right now and your nose will fall off and there'll be nothing you can do.
It's like she like modernized a biblical story. Well, you know what? Apparently it works. Or at least that's how Flo Delis tells it. She says Cocotta backs off and lets her pass. He tells his henchmen she's nuts. Flo Delis says what others call madness, we evangelicals call the authority of God. So she's kind of like this...
evangelical vigilante who's like a gospel singer during the day and then she puts on a cape and goes around and tells people that God will turn them into lepers. Yeah, she's like a hotter, more pious Batman. Yeah.
As you can imagine, this inspires total devotion from the kids in this gang-run favela. They want to join her church. They want to follow in her footsteps. And soon, Flotelise finds a way to bring them even closer.
Sarah, she starts adopting them. And everyone in the neighborhood seems to think that it's like a really pure act of goodness. But what's happening behind closed doors is kind of a different story. It's true that many of these kids are in danger and they have nowhere to go. They find refuge with Flo DeLise.
But she opens her doors to all the neighborhood kids and she doesn't really enforce any rules. So her house kind of quickly becomes just like a hangout.
And Flo Delis encourages them to stay, which means that a lot of kids leave their real families behind to live with her where it's basically anything goes. Like the kids are running the show in there. And one of those kids, Sarah, oh, you're going to die. One of those kids is Anderson DeCarmo.
He's not her husband yet. At this point, he's just a 15-year-old kid completely caught up in the work that she's doing. In fact, at first, he dates her daughter, Simone. No! Yeah. So, Flotelise is 31 when she adopts Anderson, and he's 15. But Flotelise swears they weren't romantic until he turned 18.
She's always been a little cagey about when they got married. Sometimes she says it was around 1994, and other times it's closer to 1998.
Either way, Anderson was suddenly a husband and a father in his late teens or early 20s. Oh my God. Mind you, this is before she becomes known as the saintly woman, right? Well, they don't really advertise this fact. And if you can believe it, this many kids is not enough for Flo Delis. And as absolutely bananas as it already is, it's about to get even more chaotic.
A year later, in February 1994, Flotelise is preaching at Rio's central train station. The terminal has an Art Deco clock tower, soaring ceilings, and a large, unhoused population. A woman approaches Flotelise. She wants to make a confession.
She says that she abandoned her newborn baby in a vacant lot. Oh, no, don't tell her. No, Sarah, she's confessed to the right pastor. Even though she already has eight kids at home, Flotelise decides to adopt the 15-day-old baby.
According to Flo Delis, days later, the baby's birth mother shows up at her house with 37 other children, including 14 babies. The woman says that the kids are homeless orphans who survived a mass shooting and they have nowhere to go.
How did she have 14 babies? Who are these babies? Like, what is this mass shooting? What is this? Right. A lot of questions outstanding. And we don't really know the answers to some of it. But there was a massacre around that time and it was really gruesome. The police killed a group of children sleeping outside of a church near Central Station. Flotelise implies that these kids were survivors of that event and they move into her two bedroom apartment. Oh.
Oh, wow. Well, of course, this mega adoption turns Flo Delis, who's still just a neighborhood pastor at this point, into a national celebrity. And the spotlight will reveal some disturbing gaps in her story. So Flo Delis opens her doors to curious reporters, including one from TV Globo, which is Brazil's largest television network.
That reporter remembers the apartment smelling like rotten fruit. And that's because Flo Delis feeds all these kids with throwaway fruit donated by stallholders at the market. That's so upsetting. It's like, you do not have the capacity to take care of this many children. You are doing this for your own sake. Yeah, but she's obviously masking it in, you know, the goodness of her heart. And before she does that,
before this, Khloé D'Alice was well-known in her favela. But now, all this press attention is giving her her first taste of real fame. And that ends up being a big problem because those press reports set off alarm bells with child welfare officers. Because Sarah...
Here's the problem. Flotelise never formally adopted all of those kids. Oh my God. Well, at least it's setting off alarm bells somewhere. Well, one judge accuses her of harboring underage children and he orders her to come forward to the police and explain how she came to have so many kids.
Flo Delis knows that if she goes, she risks losing custody. So I want you to guess what she does next instead. If she rents some kind of mega bus, loads it up with those kids and runs away, I am closing this Zoom chat. I mean, I don't know if it was a mega bus, but she does take her dozens of children and go on the run. Okay, bye.
So Flotalee says they jump on a bus. Maybe it was a mega bus. I don't really know. And they take it to another favela, 25 minutes away. They spend the night sleeping under a shelter of a bus stop. And then in the morning, Flotalee says she wakes up and is surrounded by drug dealers who demand to know who she is and how she got all of her kids there.
Okay, yeah, they're right. Someone's finally asking a good question. Like, what's up? Like, the drug dealers are like, hey, this seems fishy. Bye.
But as we already know, Flotelise like really knows how to talk to drug dealers, I guess. So she tells them her story and the drug dealers call the president of a neighborhood group and they end up finding Flotelise and her children an apartment to hide out in. Okay, so these drug dealers see the sea of children and this 30-year-old hottie and they're like,
who are you? What are you doing with these kids? Why are you here? She tells them their story and they're like, oh, cool. We'll call the president of the neighborhood. The tenant board. Yeah. And we'll get you an apartment. Yeah. Okay. Well, obviously the press coverage doesn't stop either. Her absence only compounds all the gossip. When a newspaper claims that she abducted the kids, Flo Delis decides she has had enough.
These are serious charges, Sarah. One judge has even called for her arrest and she knows she can't hide forever. If she wants to keep her kids and her reputation, she has to risk it all.
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So Rio's Court of Justice is just a few blocks from the waterfront downtown. It's a stone and glass structure that towers over these palm tree lined streets and floatily stares up at the tinted windows. She has spent months on the run from the authorities at this point, trying to keep her family, or maybe you want to use air quotes here, family together. Now it's her chance to take control of the narrative.
Somehow, word gets out to the press that Flo Delis is coming out of hiding. And so reporters rush to the Justice Center. ♪
They're so eager to capture the supermom who gained national fame and then infamy and then just disappeared. You know what? It is crazy that she had that many kids, many of whom were literal babies. Yeah. And somehow disappeared. Well, under the flashing cameras and barrage of shouted questions, Flotelise flips her long hair and smiles.
She's got these apple round cheekbones and really smooth brown skin. She's honestly really beautiful. Flo Delis is full of confidence and spiritual conviction, which is kind of a lethal combination here. She knows that she's meant to help these kids. And so here's her plan.
She's going to meet with someone from the United Nations who works on youth issues. And she's also going to meet with the judge who accused her of harboring underage children in the first place. So, Sarah, what do you think happens next? I don't know. Aliens come down. They like abduct all the bad people and she lives in peace. It works somehow. Yeah, you're right. It does work.
Oh, my God. No. Yeah. Oh. Well, Sarah, the officials, they're just so moved by her story. So moved, in fact, that the judge, the guy who wanted Flo Delis to be in jail, he helps her found an organization to formalize all of her adoptions.
OK, there's no way to verify where dozens of these children came from. And she just gets to keep them. These literally could be children with parents who are looking for them. Well, the adoption stuff isn't the only thing that comes out of the meeting because two businessmen watch the news coverage and they also want to help.
So they step in and they provide a home for Flo Delis and all the kids in a suburb on the western side of Rio. They also provide furniture and a washing machine and groceries. After so much upheaval, Flo Delis finally has some stability in her life.
Sometimes she says this is the time when she and Anderson got married. Other times she says that they got married before the 37 new kids came along.
Either way, this is when Flotelise and Anderson set up their first church together in the garage of their new house. Other kids can't even fit in this church. Well, it doesn't really matter because their church catches on immediately. Anderson preaches and Flotelise wows the crowd with her gorgeous singing voice. And they lean into the image that they've gained in the press of a selfless couple raising a huge family in the name of God.
And soon, Flotelise and Anderson are making enough to get out of their garage and build their first real church. Okay, is Brazil like in the U.S. where churches don't have to pay taxes? Where like some cases they are kind of a scheme in that sense? Yeah, like a tax shelter in a way. Yeah, yes, that's true. ♪
And in the Pentecostal church, the faithful pay monthly tithes, which are pretty generous. Brazil's richest pastor has hundreds of churches and is worth around $950 million. He has a TV network and an entire political party. And then during this time, evangelical Pentecostalism is like blowing up in Brazil, Sarah, especially in the favelas. So gospel music is taking off at the same time.
Flotelise is the perfect pastor for this moment, and she's going to get that bag. So she releases her first gospel album in 1998. If you tell me that she becomes like Celine Dion from this album, I actually am ending this episode. Okay, you don't have to end it because it was an independent release, so it didn't move a lot of copies.
But Flota Lys is about to get launched into the stratosphere with the help of one of Brazil's most influential celebrities. In the early 2000s, there's one show that Brazilian families watch together on Sundays. It's called Planet Xuxa. The host of this show is this rosy-cheeked, blue-eyed singer with butter blonde hair named Xuxa.
And she's a really big deal. She's like the Ellen of Brazil. She does interviews and dancing and makeovers, like a whole scene. So when Shusha asks Flo Delis to come on her TV show in 2002, it's a really big deal. And I have the clip right here.
Sarah, do you want to describe it? Right off the bat, it's like a bit of a scene. It looks like a normal talk show from that time. Like it's very colorful. There's like hearts everywhere for some reason. And Flo Delisa is sitting on this long white couch speaking to the host, which
And around her are almost 12 people who all look Flo Delis' age, basically. I guess they're her children. And they all look like they're in their mid-20s. It could look like a dating show, which isn't a crazy thing to say considering she marries one of her kids. Yeah. And Xuxa introduces Flo Delis to all of Brazil. And she calls her the mother of the nation. Oh my, like...
That's impossible. All this stuff just happened. She was on the run with these kids that weren't her kids. And now she's got the most popular television host in a massive country is legitimizing her and calling her the mother of Brazil or whatever. Well, Sarah, there's a lot more because someone watching that TV appearance is Marco Antonio Fajaz.
He's a director and he's mesmerized by Flo Delis' story. So he recruits Brazil's biggest soap opera stars to make a movie about her life.
And Flo Delis stars as Flo Delis in Just One Word Is Enough to Make a Change. I also have the poster right here. Sarah, it is so good. Can you describe it for us? Yeah, sure. So in the center is this image of Flo Delis and it looks like a nice headshot almost. Like she's standing in front of these train tracks.
She's wearing this white kind of ruffled button-up short-sleeved shirt because she's an angel. And around it are these photos of these gorgeous actors. And I know that these are likely the actors playing her children. Right.
The movie premieres at the 2009 Rio International Film Festival. And Flo Delis walks the red carpet and she loves it. She requests a makeup artist and a new dress worth thousands of dollars. And she gets a Chanel bag. Sarah, she is living. If you tell me it was a blockbuster, I know I keep threatening this, but I will have to take a break.
Okay, you're going to be okay because the movie was a total flop. It has a shockingly low score on IMDb. But Flotelice is now a household name in Brazil and the movie supercharges her ministry. Some of the hot Brazilian actors from the movie even joined the church. So now the Flotelice ministry has some celebrity congregants.
In addition to Flotelise herself, obviously. So this is like, you know, one of those celebrity megachurches. It's kind of like the Hillsong of Brazil. Yeah, it is a lot like Hillsong. And much like Hillsong's pastor, Flotelise is becoming a celebrity. And she loves it. She wants more. Flotelise is about to get even more powerful before she loses it all.
In 2006, about five years after she starred in the movie about herself playing herself, Flo DeLise and Anderson take the stage in front of tens of thousands of fans on Copacabana Beach. They're at this gospel event called Big Worship. It's like Coachella for Christ. Here's a fan recording I found on YouTube. Sarah, I need you to describe it for us.
Oh, wow. There are people as far as the eye can see, and they're really enjoying themselves and jamming out in front of the stage where Flo Delisa's singing. And it's a real scene. This is crazy. Yeah, they're really, really into it. And Flo Delisa's surge in popularity got her a record deal on one of Brazil's biggest gospel labels. And over the next decade, she releases five albums. She's a really big deal now.
And the person managing her career, it's her husband slash adopted son, Anderson. Okay, Flood Elise, meet one more person. Just meet someone else. Do you really think she needs one more person in her orbit? I don't think like more bodies are the solution here. That's true. But I mean, he's carrying a lot of weight here. He's handling a lot. Because
Because Anderson is running everything. Flo DeLisa's career, the church, and the family's budget. And when Anderson is home, every kid has to ask his permission to leave the house, even if it's just to run an errand. Anderson even controls Flo DeLisa's wardrobe. And even though Anderson is the behind-the-scenes guy, he really loves the attention. Now he's a famous preacher in his own right.
Here's some clips from his Instagram where he's riling up a crowd during a service. Oh, gosh. And listen, all of this is working because Flotelise says that she's the dreamer and that Anderson is the enabler. Hashtag goals. She and Anderson build seven churches in Brazil. Flotelise goes on tour in Europe and the U.S.,
And not only is she reaching international fame in gospel circles, she's also raking it in, man. She says there are times when she earns more than $30,000 a month. And that's pretty fucking wild because Brazil's average monthly wage today is $544. And if she's jet-setting around the world and playing all these packed stadiums,
How much time is she actually spending being a mom to these, like, 50-plus children of hers? Yes, she has 55 kids, and she's seemingly dedicated her existence to taking care of these children. But now she has this career as, like, an entertainer. And I think...
This means it's time for the scam siren. Like, she is no longer a mom. I mean, the scam siren has to go off here in particular, I think, because not only is it clear that, like, something is amiss with the kids, she's also wielding so much influence in the country.
And listen, here's where things really get weird, because after reaching mega fame as a pastor, Flo DeLis starts having visions from God. And in them, Sarah, she's a politician. Oh, OK. I got a vision from God, too. And I'm a billionaire. Like what? What is this?
Well, she runs for local office twice and she loses, but you know Flo Delis, she doesn't give up. She just needs an angel, a benefactor maybe, someone perfectly poised to lift her into the halls of power. And of course, God provides.
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It's 2018 and Brazil's far-right politicians are riding the global populist wave. And one of the most influential amongst them is an evangelical media mogul named Harold de Oliveira. He's a nine-term federal congressman with thinning white hair, wire-rimmed glasses. Oliveira doesn't just know business and politics, he also knows music because he's the founder of MK Records, and that's the label that signed Flotilice.
So he knows how influential she is. He's a big part of a far-right political group that's on the verge of gaining real power in Brazil. They're called the Bible Caucus. I mean, listen, I will say this sounds like it is really good for Flo Delis' career. Yeah. Well, they need charismatic candidates, and Flo Delis fits the bill. Oliveta asks her to run for local legislature in Rio. You
You know what? I really think one of the best things that could happen to a city or country or region is when a celebrity runs for political office and wins. It always works. It always works. It always works, and it's always a good idea. Well, Flo Delis believes she's destined for bigger things. She has a dream, like a literal dream, where she runs for a seat in the federal lower house, which is a way bigger position. Yeah.
And in the dream, she wins. The problem is that it's been Ali Beda's seat since 1986. But a few days after her dream, Arolde decides he's gonna run for senator, which means his seat is wide open.
Well, as you know, Flo Delis always gets what she wants. She campaigns for Congress on the same ticket as Flavio Bolsonaro, the son of the man running for president, Jair Bolsonaro. And he is, as we know, currently president of Brazil and...
If we know anything about him, it's that he's ultra conservative. So I can only imagine his son falls along the same kind of political leanings. Yeah. And the only person who wants Flo Delis to be elected more than Flo Delis, other than God, obviously, is Anderson. Because, of course, Anderson works as her campaign manager. ♪
She and Anderson hit the campaign trail hard. Like, they're doing appearances at three to four services a day for months. Her platform, unfortunately, is anti-abortion. She wants services for pregnant women, and she lobbies for something called National Week of Childhood.
She wants to cut the red tape around adoption so it doesn't take so long, obviously. And then for her campaign jingle, they use one of Flotelisa's most popular songs. Let me play a bit for you. Oh, this is going to get stuck in my head. Yeah, listen, it's not that she's untalented. And in the end, all their hard work really pays off because Flotelisa wins her race in a landslide.
She gets about 197,000 votes, which is one of the biggest totals for a female candidate in all of Brazil. So now, at 57 years old, Lota Lise is stepping into her most influential role yet.
She's representing Rio de Janeiro in the Chamber of Deputies, which is like being in the House of Representatives in the U.S. Okay, so not only does she have a very big platform, but now it's very legitimate. Yeah, but she's still not happy. The win is like kind of bittersweet for her because on the campaign trail, Flotalee starts to notice something and it's a feeling she can't shake.
It's a feeling that she's being controlled. Anderson is micromanaging her life, and he's enjoying the fruits of all of her hard work. In political meetings, Anderson does all the talking, and he won't let Flo Delis chime in. Even though Flo Delis is the one who got elected.
This power dynamic is so messed up in too many ways. But I mean, you gotta hate a mansplainer. Yeah. And Flo Delis is starting to think it might be her time to shine on her own. I mean, she's famously ultra religious. Is she the type of Pentecostal pastor who gets a divorce? No.
Like, would she unadopt her husband, son? No. All of that would be way too big of a scandal. But their marriage is on the rocks, and Flotelise thinks she knows just the thing that can rescue it. It's a Saturday night in June of 2019, and Flotelise has been a federal deputy for about four months now. She spends the work week in Brasilia at the capital, and on weekends like this one, she and Anderson come back to their house in Rio.
And by the way, they have super fancy digs now. They live in a forest structure compound built into a hillside in a middle class neighborhood outside of Rio. It has yellow walls and terracotta roofs. It's got a wooden gate, tile floors and a swimming pool. OK, I mean, is it weird that I can't picture Flo Delis having a job? Like it seems like she kind of painted herself into this corner of legitimacy. Now she has to go to work.
Well, interestingly enough, Flotelise has been really busy with her new job. And so they haven't really had a moment to themselves. They want to rekindle their spark. They need a night out. So they decide to go to Copacabana, the famous beach in Rio.
Clotely says they spend the evening walking along the beach and eating fried fish. That's what she tells Domingo is Spectacular, a Sunday news show. Later, they park their car at the end of the beach secluded from the crowds. And Sarah, they make out like teenagers. And...
Much like super horny teenagers, they proceed to boink each other on the hood of their Honda Accord. And Anderson shouts out, I love you. But on the drive home, things take a sinister turn. Flo Delis says that shady figures follow their car like dark omens. She says two people on motorcycles follow their car.
A drug gang from the Rio Favelas has started to creep into even their middle-class neighborhood. So she's worried they might be assaulted. But they get home safe around 3 a.m. Flotelise goes inside to check on the kids. Anderson stays in the car. He's checking his email. He's getting things ready for the church services that start in just a few hours. And then gunshots tear through the night. They go on and on and on.
Okay, wait, are these the guys on the motorcycles who are shooting? Like, is it a gang thing outside their place? Like, what is this? Well, Floetelis rushes downstairs when she hears the gunshots. And some of her kids grab her. And they hold her back from seeing the brutal scene. Anderson is covered in blood. His body is riddled with bullet holes. And one of the children cries out, my father, my father. Two of his sons rush Anderson to the hospital. But it's too late.
At just 42 years old, Anderson is dead. And millions of Brazilians will wake up to the shocking news about Flotelisa's husband, not knowing that the story is about to get even more twisted. After Anderson's violent death, word spreads fast through the country. Because Flotelisa and Anderson were seen as untouchable, they were inspirations for millions of people.
But now their family is at the center of a grisly crime and a shocking mystery. Who killed Anderson DeCarmo?
National newscasts like CBS Brazil pick it up. All of Brazil is riveted because the details are so strange. Like almost all of the gunshots that killed Anderson, Sarah, they were centered around his groin. Oh my God. I mean, it's very targeted to shoot someone there. Yeah.
Flo DeLisa's ministry holds an all-night vigil in one of her largest churches, which sounds great. But early in the investigation, detectives are noticing some strange gaps in Flo DeLisa's story. Police check the security footage along Flo DeLisa's and Anderson's drive home. And here's the problem. There was no motorcycle speeding next to their car. There's no footage of that. Flo DeLisa and Anderson were not being followed.
Oh my God, you know what? When you were saying the motorcycle thing, I was like, this sounds like it's from an action movie, like these motorcycles tailing them, like that's unreal. And now seemingly there are none. Yeah. And here's what also makes it weird. They live on a dead end street. So cameras show that they were the last to enter that street. Nobody followed them. And there's no footage of anyone entering the house at the time of the murder either.
So Anderson was likely killed by someone who was already there, which kind of narrows it down to only 56 people.
That's the lead the police are now following. And where the investigation takes them will unravel Flo Delisa's ministry, her singing career, her political ambitions, and eventually her entire family. Ultimately, the curtain will be pulled back on the story of Brazil's supermom. It'll reveal a seedy, secret life behind the scenes. And so, so many people will be made to pay for Flo Delisa's sins.
This is episode one of our two-part series, Brazil's Supermom. I'm Sachi Cole. And I'm Sarah Hagee. We use many sources in our research. A few that were particularly helpful were John Lee Anderson's article at The New Yorker and Tom Phillips' story for The Guardian. And just a quick note about our scenes. In most cases, we can't know the exact details about what happened, but everything in our show is grounded in research. We're going to be talking about the story of the New Yorker,
Carol Paredes wrote this episode. Additional writing by Sarah Enni and us, Sachi Cole and Sarah Hagee. Our senior producer is Jen Swan.
Brian Taylor White is our producer and Charlotte Miller is our associate producer. Our senior story editor is Rachel B. Doyle. Sound design is by James Morgan. Additional audio assistance provided by Adrian Tapia. Our music supervisor is Scott Velasquez for Freeze On Sync. Our executive producers are Janine Cornelow, Stephanie Jens, and Marshall Louie for Wondery.
If you like Scamfluencers, you can listen to every episode early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.
