Denise Pflum 49:41

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This is Jessica Knoll, host of the new series Back in Crime. If you're a follower of true crime, you're probably familiar with some of the most shocking stories from our history. Horrific tragedies like the Columbine Massacre. He turned the gun straight at us and shot. Oh my God, the window went out. And the kid standing there with me, I think he got hit. Okay. Oh God. And notorious criminals like cult leader Charles Manson.

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Voices for Justice is a podcast that uses adult language and discusses sensitive and potentially triggering topics, including violence, abuse, and murder. This podcast may not be appropriate for younger audiences. All parties are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Some names have been changed or omitted per their request or for safety purposes. Listener discretion is advised. My name is Sarah Turney, and this is Voices for Justice.

Today I'm discussing the case of Denise Flum. In March 1986, Denise Flum really had it all. She was at the top of her senior class at Connersville High School in Indiana, a member of the National Honor Society who was just recognized for her academics, she'd been accepted into her college of choice, and it was her last spring break before graduating.

When Denise suddenly goes missing, her father's cousin is assigned to the case. This really makes the Flums let out a sigh of relief. They know someone that loves Denise and cares for her is on the case. But over 30 years later, the case remains unsolved. And the same rumors about how the investigation was handled and who may be responsible are still swirling. This is the case of Denise Flum.

On the morning of Friday, March 28th, 1986, 18-year-old Denise Flum is waking up from a night out with friends. It's spring break, and while Denise is number six in her graduating senior class at Connersville High School in Indiana, she still knows how to have some fun. As spring break was coming to an end, she spends the night prior at a bonfire on some farmland near Glenwood, about 15 minutes from her house.

What started as a small gathering of friends turned into a massive party. Some reports say that there were hundreds of teenagers in attendance. During the party, Denise sets her purse down somewhere. She misses her 12.30 curfew, but calls home to ensure her parents that she's okay, she's just going to be a little late. She makes it home by 1.15am without her purse.

Now, while some parents might be really upset by this, it seems that Judy and David Flum aren't too worried. Denise is technically 18 and a very responsible teenager. In addition to being in the top 10 of her graduating class, she was president of the 4-H club.

treasurer of the Science Club. She played volleyball, basketball, and ran track, and she was a member of the National Honor Society. Denise was even in an article featuring the who's who of American high school students, and she was set to receive an award for her academics in the next few weeks. She's been accepted to her dream school, Miami University, with plans to major in microbiology and become a scientist. Denise is responsible.

And I have to imagine that Judy and David are happy that she went out to have some fun. After all, it was her last spring break before leaving for college.

But that morning, the issue still remained that Denise's purse was missing. For reasons that her parents still don't understand, she starts calling around asking friends to go back with her to the site of the party to look for her purse. For some reason, she doesn't want to go alone, which in hindsight, David and Judy say is pretty odd for Denise, because she was typically pretty fearless and independent.

Either way, in the end, no one is available to go with Denise, so she heads out alone. Her mom Judy was actually on a break from her part-time job at a local bank at the time. She was off from 12 to 3 for the Good Friday holiday, trying to squeeze in some laundry before heading back to work. So she sees all this unfold. Denise begins walking to the family's 1981 Buick, but she stops to talk to a neighbor about her plans to go to college in the fall.

After this, she presumably makes the about 15-minute drive back to the party site at 12.30pm. But not even an hour after Denise leaves, there's a knock at the Flum's door. It's Denise's cousin with Denise's purse in hand.

Now, of course, this is 1986, cell phones are not common, and no one in this story appears to have one. So, I imagine Judy thinks Denise will be back any minute, frustrated that she can't find her purse, which has her ID and money in it, and then elated when she realizes that it was safely returned to her.

But Denise still isn't back by the time Judy needs to go back to work around 3. And Judy says this is when she really starts to get a bad feeling about everything. Denise should have been home by now. But again, Denise is responsible. So Judy just tries to brush it off and go on with her day.

When she gets home from work, Denise still isn't home. So Judy and David go out looking for her, thinking that maybe she got into a car accident or something. Maybe she just lost track of time.

But Denise and the family Buick are nowhere to be found. And by 8.30, David reports her missing. And police are not worried. They say she's a teenager, probably out having some fun. She'll be back. That or despite being 18, they say maybe she just ran away.

So, with exactly zero help from police, Judy and David make a plan. David'll go out and look for Denise while Judy stays home by the phone in case Denise comes home or calls. But Denise doesn't call or come home, and she's nowhere to be found. The next morning, David and Judy are at it again. They're both now out searching for Denise, talking to friends, family, neighbors, anybody they can think of.

Connersville, Indiana is a very small town. That cliche town where residents talk about not having to lock their doors at night and sleep with their windows open. Again, cliche, but still very real. As we'll see, news travels fast here. If someone saw Denise, they were sure to hear about it, but no one seems to know anything, or at least they're not telling them.

Then, finally, a break. The family Buick is found, but Denise isn't in it.

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The family's 1981 beige Buick was actually found less than an hour after Denise left home on Friday. Farmers about four miles past the party site saw the car right away. They figured it just belonged to some mushroom hunters and went about their day. But when they noticed that it was still there the next day, they called it in to police as abandoned.

It's locked, and Judy and David say that the driver's seat appeared to be in the normal position for Denise. There was no indication that anyone else drove it, and no sign of any type of struggle or foul play. Also, the keys were missing. It really looked like it was driven, parked, locked up, and just left there for some reason.

But the area it was found in raised red flags for Denise's parents immediately. Like I said, it was a few miles past the site of the party east of Glenwood, and it was really in the middle of nowhere near this farmland. They just don't understand why it would be here.

But finally, this sparks some action by the police as they start to take Denise's disappearance seriously. Soon, Ted McQuinley of the Fayette County Sheriff's Office leads the investigation, and Judy and David think that this is great news because Ted happens to be David's cousin. But pretty quickly, it's apparent that Ted and the entire sheriff's department are in way over their heads here.

In an interview for the documentary Small Town Secrets, Detective Stacey Reese of Vincennes County describes the search for Denise as unconventional and extremely disorganized. The community came out in droves to help search for Denise, and there were some officials involved like firefighters, but there was just no organization to it.

People were going off in their own groups, mostly searching nearby farmland near the party. People were being lowered into wells, and local high school students were sent out to search for Denise in groups of three. Now, don't get me wrong, the passion was there, but the structure of it all just wasn't great.

I feel like we see this all the time in older cases in small towns. They've just never dealt with nor were they equipped to deal with a case like this. But Judy and David trust Ted to do what's best for Denise. He loved Denise and watched her grow up. And I mean, after all, what else can they do besides help search for Denise and hope the police are doing all they can?

But nearly a week later, an unnamed police spokesman told the Indianapolis Star that they were basically back at square one in Denise's case. And unfortunately, what we can find in old newspapers is basically what we know about the first few weeks and really years of the search for Denise. Because in addition to having unconventional methods for searching for the missing, Ted McQuinley also has some unconventional practices for the overall investigation too.

And I think I'm being a little nice when I say unconventional, because Ted takes no notes about the investigation. We don't know who was interviewed or when, what evidence is collected from the car, almost nothing. According to McQuinley, he doesn't need to write it down because it's all in his head.

He also doesn't pull any phone records, doesn't search Denise's bedroom, and doesn't speak to many people close to Denise that would end up coming forward later. He also seems to have a very heavy reliance on the advice of psychics. In fact, by early May, it's reported that McQuinley is working with up to five psychics, and they all have different ideas of what exactly happened to Denise.

And while the most valuable time in this investigation, those first few hours and days are slowly slipping away as police chase theories from psychics, and McQuinley keeps detailed records in his head, one possible suspect slips away from police, and the entire state of Indiana with no follow-up, Denise's ex-boyfriend, Sean McClung.

Sean and Denise met on a bus near the beginning of high school, and dated for about three years. Just a few weeks before Denise went missing, she and Sean broke up. Now, there are conflicting reports about whether or not this was mutual or amicable. But, of course, when Denise goes missing, people start wondering if Sean was involved.

Here on Voices for Justice, we know that those closest to the victim are the most likely perpetrators in these situations. And obviously, so do the police. They talk to Sean, but never really follow up. And since we don't have McQuinley's mental notes to reference, we don't really know what all happened there. Just that Sean was spoken to once and then moved to Arizona.

And besides just the probability that Sean may have been involved, people were also looking at his behavior. They were concerned that he didn't appear worried about Denise. In fact, early on, he said that he was sure Denise was fine and would be back. He didn't participate in any searches for her. And now, not long after she's reported missing, he ups and leaves his hometown and moves all the way across the country.

But Sean wasn't the only person they were looking at. Investigators quickly turn their attention to another local man named Benny Johnson. Benny graduated a few years before Denise. And while Denise really only saw Benny through Sean, Benny really inserts himself into this investigation. One day, he's speaking with Denise's parents and tells them, quote, I didn't kill your daughter, end quote.

Now, David and Judy are really kind of floored by this. We are very early into this investigation, and they aren't even ready to think about a worst-case scenario of Denise being killed. Right now, she's just missing.

And Benny just keeps bringing attention to himself. A few weeks after Denise goes missing, he's drunk and being arrested. While the cops are dealing with him, he becomes completely belligerent, and basically starts making fun of the officers, saying that they were too stupid to find Denise. And it doesn't stop here. Pretty soon, Benny starts allegedly telling people around town that he killed Denise.

There are many stories of Benny Johnson telling people around town that he killed Denise. He allegedly told over a dozen people, and in these stories, sometimes he's laughing and mocking Denise, saying he killed her at a cabin, and while Denise was lying on the ground, she kept saying, help me, help me. He said that Denise was fed to hogs, and sometimes he's even crying while talking about Denise, expressing remorse for his involvement.

Now, of course, all these rumors get back to the sheriff's office, and they begin piecing these statements together. Benny's family did own a cabin, and sure enough, Benny's grandfather owned land about a mile away from where Denise's car was found.

And there's more. Someone Benny Johnson used to date came forward to police about a party at the cabin within the first few days of Denise going missing. Apparently, this ex-girlfriend got to the cabin before the party to help clean up, and she found blood. Unfortunately, we just don't know all the details here, how much blood, or exactly where. She just says that she was told it was blood from a girl losing her virginity the night before.

But she says that the amount of blood that they cleaned up was just way too much to be from someone losing their virginity. She also says that the blood was fresh. And you guys, there is more on top of that. The day Denise went missing, a woman named Vivian is in her home on the outskirts of Connersville, and she hears three blood-curdling screams that she believes came from a woman.

These screams were so awful, she could barely tell her family about it. But once she heard about Denise going missing, she called in the tip and says no one followed up. But how does this relate to Benny Johnson? Well, Vivian says that she could tell the screams were coming from the southwest of her home, which is close to the Johnson family property, again just a mile from where the Buick was found.

The Johnsons are actually a pretty affluent family in this area, so when Benny is approached by detectives to answer some questions about Denise, they have the resources to immediately hire Benny a lawyer. Which I will always say, is his right, is your right, if you are questioned by police, get a lawyer.

But here's the part that I can't get over. Benny is never officially questioned. And not only that, apparently Benny's mom makes some type of deal with the sheriff's office. She says, listen, Benny will take a private polygraph test arranged by and paid for by us.

Now, because we just don't really have any information about the early investigation, we don't know if the sheriff's office hands are just tied, if they believe this polygraph was sufficient, or why they just kind of do nothing. But that is basically what happens for the next few years. Benny Johnson is just kind of left alone. And life goes on.

Denise was honored at that award ceremony she was supposed to attend in April, and her fellow students continue to search for her. They even create a video saying it's time for whoever knows what happened to come forward. But there's just nothing. Eventually, the community, and in large part, Denise's parents, put together a $5,000 reward, which is pretty major money for 1986. But again, there's just nothing.

Then, in 1988, the Flums get a phone call that will change the entire course of the investigation. August 10th, 1988 was a Wednesday, which meant Judy wasn't at work. It was her regularly scheduled day off from the bank. And she gets a phone call. Actually, a collect call to be precise. This call is coming from Norfolk, Virginia, and the caller says that they're Denise.

According to reporting by Daniel McFeely for the Rushville Republican, the connection wasn't great. But Judy says that the caller sounded young, with an Indiana accent. She thinks that this really could be Denise. In two weeks, investigators traced the call to Norfolk.

While Judy and David were cautiously optimistic about this call, once the location is confirmed, they pack up their stuff and drive almost a thousand miles to see this woman in person. Denise's younger sister Jenny was actually set to leave for college in just a few days, but this family drops everything in hopes of finally bringing Denise home. But as you've probably guessed by now, it was a cruel hoax.

And this woman's reasoning for making this call is all over the place, so stay with me. The woman who placed the call was 19. She originally said that she thought she saw Denise at a local mall. But then through interviews with her neighbors, who she'd apparently been bragging to about this call, they discovered that she never saw Denise, or even someone who looked like Denise. Basically,

Basically, she thought Denise's family had a lot of money, and that she might be able to get them to send her some if they thought that she was Denise. Judy and David drive back to Indiana heartbroken, no closer to finding their daughter.

But good on them because they go straight to the media with this story in an attempt to keep Denise's name in the news, and advertise the now $10,000 reward in the case. And it works for a while. Denise's name is back in the news. And then, as these things go, it dies back down. That is, until 1991, when a search warrant is served on the Johnson family cabin.

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So let's talk about this search, or at least what we know about it, which does mostly come from that documentary Small Town Secrets, like so much of the information in this episode thanks to McQuinley's method of mental record keeping. But first, I think it's absolutely worth noting that the sheriff's office asked for an outside prosecutor, because it seems that Benny's mother was a close personal friend with the Fayette County prosecutor.

And we also know that they were specifically looking for clothing, jewelry, and blood-stained bedding. So what comes of this search? Well, we don't know, because that information appears to be missing from the court file. And really, nothing happens. They are back at square one again.

I have to imagine that this is just devastating for the Flum family. To hear all these rumors, to have this weird interaction with Benny himself, just for it all to be a big nothing, had to be extremely difficult.

And this is when there really is this major pause in the case for over a decade. In 2007, a detective for the Indiana State Police begins working the case. In 2011, there's a NamUs profile created. And in 2014, Denise's DNA is submitted to the Indiana State Lab and national databases. But there are no matches.

It seems that Denise's case really only starts to get traction when yet another, but in my opinion, much better investigator who actually knew Denise starts reviewing her case. Around 2018, Detective Stacey Reese begins looking at Denise's case. Now, I say looking instead of working because officially she's not on the case. She's just volunteering her time to see what she can do.

Detective Reese's mom used to actually babysit Denise and her sister. And while she was only three when Denise went missing, she just feels compelled to help.

She's grown up with this case and the rumors, and watched the Flums deal with basically no answers for over 30 years. But in my opinion, and really more importantly, in the opinion of Judy and David Flum, Reese is the best investigator Denise's case has ever seen. In 2018, she establishes the Justice for Denise Flum Facebook page, and on Denise's 50th birthday, she puts out a call for anyone with information to come forward.

And it works. People want to talk about the rumors, what they've heard, what they've seen. And quickly, Reese realizes that all these people coming forward have either never been approached by police, or they submitted a tip that had never been followed up on. Now, this apparently really ruffles some feathers with local authorities, and it really just kind of lights a fire underneath them to work Denise's case.

Now around this same time, the timeline is a little fuzzy here, the Small Town Secrets documentary crew begins taking a look at Denise's case, and they really kind of partner up with Detective Reese. This is really when the bulk of what we know about this investigation begins to unfold, and investigators begin looking at a tip that they'd received decades prior.

This comes from another ex-girlfriend of Benny's who requests to remain anonymous. She says that about two months after Denise went missing, Benny offers to take her out to the Mary Gray Bird Sanctuary just southwest of Connersville. It's basically this massive 700-acre nature preserve. And before they even go, this girl is scared.

She tells her friends where she's going and with who, and tells them that if I don't come back, come looking for me because Benny has done something terrible. Basically, Benny takes her out into this nature preserve and they begin walking deeper and deeper into it, to the point where the trees are getting really dense and the area is getting darker and darker with each step. She says that this, as they start walking into the darkness, is when she freaks out.

She tells Benny to take her back home. She makes it home safe without incident. And she tells investigators how she feels about this. She says she just felt like Benny was going to show her Denise's body.

And authorities do actually search this area for Denise at the time, but not fully. Apparently there was some bad weather, so they just stopped and never came back. But they do come back 30 plus years later to follow up on this tip again. They bring in cadaver dogs from the Indiana Department of Homeland Security, and two dogs independently alert to possible human remains near a pond.

From here, the search is on. They begin draining the pond, but as they do, it begins to rain. And rain. And rain. For about 30 days straight.

As they're trying to drain this pond, it just keeps filling back up. But they do eventually get it drained and dig up the entire area, load the mud onto 15 plus huge trailer beds, and hand sift through it all.

For all the insanity in this case, this search does appear to have been extremely thorough. They are pouring through this mud for any indication of human remains, but they find absolutely nothing. While local authorities are hesitant to let Detective Reese, a real, actual detective, be involved in the case, they have no problem inviting the documentary crew to take a look.

Not only that, they invite the crew to sit down in a viewing room to interview Denise's ex-boyfriend, Sean McClung, in December 2018. Sean had moved back to Indiana about two years prior, and brought with him a lengthy criminal record since moving away in 1986. Since leaving, he's been charged with assault, battery, forgery, fraud, shoplifting, domestic violence, and intimidation, among other things.

Not long after he moved back, investigators did ask Sean some questions and administered a voice stress test, which they say he failed. So while it seems police didn't think much of Sean early on, for whatever reason, maybe Detective Reese, maybe the documentary crew, whatever it was, they interview Sean again and invite the documentary crew to sit in the waiting room and film.

And again, not much comes of it. Sean discusses how Denise had moved on from their relationship by the time that she was gone. He says he figured maybe Denise left for spring break, or maybe something happened at that party that led to her going missing the next day. Then he leaves. Now, the documentary crew also speaks with Sean separately. He answers the door for them and invites them in for about 45 minutes. But again, as far as we know, not much comes of this either.

During the filming process, the crew also tracks down Benny Johnson, who, like Sean, has a criminal record including attempted battery on a police officer and resisting police. He basically tells them that he isn't interested. He's trying to put all this behind him. He doesn't want to speak without someone there with him. End quote. People should stick to their own goddamn business. End quote.

Throughout the series, both the film crew and Detective Reese really just try to speak with anyone they can. They sit down with someone who knew Benny Johnson, who says Benny confessed to killing Denise on at least three occasions. He was usually laughing, so to this day, they still don't really know if he was serious or not.

They speak to Benny's ex, who cleaned up the cabin and submitted the tip about the blood. And then they speak to someone who points to a possible third person of interest in this case. A man named Randy Cates. Randy didn't know Denise, but he knows Benny. Actually, he more than knows Benny. They're cousins.

Like Benny and Sean, Randy does have a criminal record that includes domestic violence. According to police, like his cousin Benny, he basically implicates himself in this case by running around town saying that he helped kill Denise. But Randy flat out denies ever saying anything like this. He sits down with police and the film crew to answer their questions. He denies all involvement and says that he doesn't know who killed Denise, but he does know that his cousin Benny is being looked at due to his statements.

But Randy says Benny was just kidding. He's not trying to cover for his cousin. He acknowledges that what Benny said was not okay. But it was all because he was really messed up. On weed. So they aren't getting anywhere with Randy. But they do speak to a friend of Randy's who has a story to tell. This friend, who also requested to stay anonymous, tells Detective Reese that they and Randy were drinking one night and Randy told them what happened to Denise.

They say that Randy and others, presumably Sean and Benny, picked Denise up on the day she went missing. They took her to a property where there were a lot of drugs. Denise freaks out and threatens to call the police. From here, someone hits her first. Then they beat her and eventually feed her to the hogs.

This all feels so big. All of these conversations are finally happening. People are giving some details that investigators may be able to follow up on, and hopefully compare to what they already have. But nothing happens. At least for another few years.

By the year 2020, Denise Flum has been missing for a painstaking 34 years. Judy Flum writes a letter to Denise's ex-boyfriend Sean McClung, who is now 56 years old and in the hospital. She's basically begging him to let them lay Denise to rest next to her grandparents, to finally give them the answers that they've so desperately been seeking for decades.

And then Sean is arrested on financial fraud charges, nothing related to Denise. But investigators take this opportunity to speak with him about the case.

And we don't have complete transparency into what happened here, but according to Sean's lawyer, he's offered a deal. Tell us what happened to Denise, bring us to her body, and we'll not only give you immunity from any charges related to Denise, we'll drop all your pending charges too so you can go back home to your kids. And if that wasn't enough, they apparently offer a $25,000 reward. So Sean confesses.

He says Denise picked him up that day, and they drove to the three-mile bridge just south of the sheriff's department by the river. They were talking, and they began arguing. And then he pushed her down, and she didn't get back up. From here, he walks to town, calls some people to help him, and that was it.

Now, detectives are skeptical of this confession for obvious reasons. There was just nothing there. And Sean can't really explain how Denise died. But they are game. At this point, what do they really have to lose? Denise's parents wanted this to happen. They didn't care if Sean walked free. They just wanted to know what happened to Denise. So investigators say, okay, bring us to where you buried Denise.

But news about this is spreading fast, and soon, Sean's lawyer, Judd McMillan, comes to the station to represent Sean. He's told that Sean already confessed. But McMillan goes with Sean to show investigators where he supposedly put Denise's remains, with the strict instruction that they are not to ask his client any further questions.

So they drive at Sean's direction to the Johnson's land. Yes, Benny Johnson's family property. But when they get there, Sean says, no, this doesn't look right. Maybe it was on this other property over there.

And when they get to the next piece of land, he says the same thing. And this just repeats until it's clear that Sean is either not being forthcoming with investigators about the location of Denise's remains, or he really doesn't know where she is. So they go back to the station, and Sean's ready to go home. He says he's cooperated. He tried to show them where the body was. He wants them to honor their agreement and let him go home.

But the state says absolutely not, that wasn't our deal. Because Sean wasn't able to tell them how Denise died or where her remains were, he's charged with voluntary manslaughter.

In 2020, in a small California mountain town, five women disappeared. I found out what happened to all of them, except one. A woman known as Dia, whose estate is worth millions of dollars. I'm Lucy Sheriff. Over the past four years, I've spoken with Dia's family and friends, and I've discovered that everyone has a different version of events.

Hear the story on Where's Dear? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Sean McClung quickly recants his confession after he is not granted immunity or given the $25,000 he says was promised to him. But it's kinda too late. The charges have been filed, and now he just has to sit and wait to see how things unfold. But in a crazy turn of events, just a few months later in September, Sean dies from a terminal illness.

And his lawyer later reveals that Sean admitted to lying about having any involvement in Denise's case. They're back at square one. After all these years, after all of this effort.

The land surrounding the Johnsons' property has been searched. In Small Town Secrets, Denise's parents make a heart-wrenching final effort to basically beg Benny Johnson's father, Ben Sr., to let them on his land to search for Denise. Judy and David say that in 2021, Ben Sr. told them no. He was worried that the land might be damaged and prevent their ability to hunt on it. He also just didn't want to deal with the rumors.

However, Ben Sr. denies this, saying they simply couldn't agree on the terms of a possible search. So, what happened to Denise? Sean and the Johnson family possibly being involved is the top theory in this case, but there are some items left to discuss.

While it looks like possible fingerprints were taken off the Buick, Sheriff Joey Laughlin of the Fayette County Sheriff's Office told Dateline in 2020 that any evidence found in or around the car has either been lost or destroyed, though they do have Denise's DNA profile for a possible identification.

I think it's pretty clear that Denise probably didn't run away. She'd already bought her prom dress, wrote a speech for a ceremony where she and her classmates were going to honor one of their teachers, and she was quite literally discussing her plans for college right before leaving to get her purse. Of course, it's always possible, but I'd put this theory at the absolute lowest in terms of possibilities.

According to reporting by Danny Lee for the Rushville Republican, a man named Mark Hughes was questioned in this case. Two days before Denise went missing, he led police on a high-speed chase in the area. And about a year later, just two days after being released from prison…

He goes to an Indianapolis shoe store, pulls a knife on a 16-year-old girl, forces her in his car, and after driving for a while, gets lost on the way. At this point, the girl tells Hughes that she needs to use the bathroom, and he ends up pulling over, and this girl books it from the car.

Hughes tries to get her back in, but she breaks free and runs towards an approaching vehicle. At this point, he realizes that he's not getting her back, and he flees the scene. He is eventually caught and sentenced to 55 years in prison. Now, while there's no real direct or even indirect link to Denise, some believe that Hughes may be responsible.

The last possibility I want to discuss is the alleged serial killer Larry Hall. He made a list of many people he allegedly killed, and Denise was on it, but he later recanted. He basically just flip-flops back and forth about Denise. Larry is serving a life sentence for kidnapping a young woman, but has never been convicted of any of the murders he's confessed to.

But like I said in that documentary Small Town Secrets, it seems that most everybody in town believes Sean McClung and the Johnsons are likely somehow involved. And it remains the number one theory in this case. And you guys probably know what I'm going to say. No matter what theory you believe, the fact remains that Denise is still missing. And still needs our help.

In 2020, Judy told Dateline, quote, Our only hope is keeping her story alive, and that it one day leads to justice for our girl, end quote.

That brings me right to our call to action. We know what media pressure can do, and so do the flums. Please take a moment to share Denise's case. I know it's been over 30 years since she went missing, but this case has gotten more traction in the last few years than the previous few decades. Let's keep up the momentum, because there is always hope.

As a reminder, 18-year-old Denise Flum was last seen at about 12:30 p.m. on Friday, March 28th, 1986 at her home in Connersville, Indiana. She is white with brown hair and brown eyes and is 5'6". At the time of her disappearance, she weighed approximately 135 pounds and was wearing striped jeans, a Motley Crue t-shirt, and old sneakers.

Anyone with information is asked to call the Fayette County Sheriff's Department at 765-825-1110 or the Indiana State Police at 765-778-2121. But as always, thank you, I love you, and I'll talk to you next time.

Voices for Justice is hosted and produced by me, Sarah Turney, and is a Voices for Justice media original. If you love what we do here, please don't forget to follow, rate, and review the show on your podcast player. It's an easy and free way to help us and help more people find these cases in need of justice. Welcome to the Secret After Show. The door is open and our emotional support puppies are in the room.

I mean, what a frustrating case, you guys. That's literally in my notes. It's like, frustrating case. And I don't know what's left to be said about this investigation that doesn't really speak for itself. This is by far one of the most frustrating cases I've ever covered. It just feels like almost nothing was done at the beginning.

And, you know, I have to say that in my journey of true crime, going through my sister's case, I should say, I always kind of imagined, like, what would it be like if there was some family member, you know, involved in investigating the case or someone who knew Alyssa? And really just that feeling of what...

wishing that, and not every detective, I will say Detective Anderson, if you're out there listening, I feel like you do care about Alyssa. You cared about her the entire time. But there were points in this investigation where Alyssa's case would be handed off to a new detective who just didn't know the case. And in those moments, you know, you think as a family member, like, gosh, I

I just wish that there was somebody that cared. And when I first came across Denise's case and found that her father's cousin was the lead investigator, I was really curious to see where that would go. You know, because again, all these years, I'm like, what if, what if? You know, clearly it's a conflict of interest there, right? And that's completely valid. But still, just out of curiosity, you know, all this time has been, what if, what if?

And now I think it's a situation where I have personally realized that the grass is not always greener. That being said, it's kind of both in this case, right? Because then you have the other detective, you have Stacy, who seems to be incredibly passionate. And, you know, like the Flums say in the documentary Small Town Secrets,

They think that she was the best investigator, is the best investigator that has ever looked at the case. So I think it's a really interesting dichotomy, really. And I would love to know your thoughts.

I think I see things from a very unique point of view because of obviously what I've gone through. And yeah, I want to know what you guys think because I'm kind of left in the middle. I think my view has definitely shifted a little bit because of how awful our first investigator was, but without harping on him too much because I don't want to do that truly. Hindsight's always 20-20 and...

And I'm not here to like, you guys, I'm going to use a sports term, be excited to Monday morning quarterback, I think is what they call it. This case, I'm not going to do that. But yeah, I just think it was interesting. I would love to know your thoughts.

I also really want to give a shout out just to Denise's parents. They are still alive. They are still very active on the Facebook page, Justice for Denise Flum. So please, please go give it a follow. Go show them some love. It means more than you might know.

onto what's going on with me. I'm going to try not to cry, but you guys might have seen that Media Pressure, my new podcast from Voices for Justice Media, hosted by Julie Murray, is now out. I

And we hit number one! Not only number one in true crime podcasts on Spotify and on Apple, but we hit number one overall on Apple Podcasts, which blows my mind. That's something that I've never done with this podcast, Voices for Justice, even in the height of media for my sister. When I was going viral on TikTok and getting a million views with each video or whatever, I still couldn't hit that. And

and media pressure did. Um, Maura's story, Julie telling Maura's story, really Maura's whole family telling that story is number one. And I just want to say thank you. Um, as you guys know, these things can't happen without you, without you listening right now. And I know I say that all the time. You are probably very sick of hearing it, but it's the truth.

You guys are the driving force behind these stories. You guys hold all the power. And yeah, I just want to say thank you. And I can't believe it. And I really hope we get some answers for Maura Murray.

I do want to also say that I will be at the vigil this week for Maura Murray in New Hampshire. And if you guys are in the area, it is a bit of a trek, and I know we talked about it last week. I would love if you could join us. It is open to the public. It would be really cool to just show the Murray family a huge, huge show of support for the 20th anniversary.

And that brings me right to our segment of hope. We are going so fast today, you guys. And in, I feel like every week and I'm like, it's going to be different for the segment of hope this week. And this week is no different. I am considering the vigil. I am considering media pressure, our segment of hope. I mean, my goodness, after 20 years of Maura being missing and

For her story to just be all over the place right now, to be number one on the charts, all because Julie took a chance. You know, I think it's no secret that the Murray family has had one of the worst experiences in true crime, hands down. I did a live stream on TikTok with Julie a few days ago, and yeah, I...

feel so blessed for my experience in true crime. It wasn't perfect. I had a lot of trauma there and

But compared to a lot of other families, I do truly feel blessed. I had so much support and people were so kind. And then, you know, really true crime was changing so much when I was entering the space and has changed so much since then. But the Murray family has truly seen the worst of the worst. So for Julie and the whole Murray family to take this chance and be a part of this podcast...

Um, all for Maura, knowing that they are going to get hate, that people are going to be awful because they have, it's out there. I will say that overall, it is overwhelmingly positive, which is amazing. But that's where the hope is, really, for me. The Murray family took a chance on this. They were hopeful that they would do this and get some answers for Maura. And if that doesn't qualify for the segment of hope, I don't know what does.

But, as always, thank you, I love you, and I'll talk to you next time.