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This is the video deposition of Pamela Huff.
Today's date is July 21st, 2014. Time is 9:13 a.m. This is a case of Leah Day and Mariah Day versus Pamela Hupp. This case is pending in the Circuit Court of St. Charles County. Picture a small room, a lacquered conference table, overhead fluorescent lights, a maroon wall. Pam Hupp sat in a high-backed leather chair.
On the other side of the room were two lawyers for Betsy's daughters, Leah and Mariah Day. They had questions, lots of questions. Pam twisted a silver bracelet on her left wrist. Was she nervous? Bored? Or was she smirking? Do you sound this way about the testimony about to give us the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so far? I do.
It was the summer after Russ was convicted of killing his wife. Pam Hupp was once again in the company of lawyers, swearing to tell the truth. You recall telling Detectives at that time that Betsy told you that she wanted her kids to have the money from the insurance policy. I do not recall that, no. Well, that was interesting.
A convenient memory lapse? After all, it was all on tape. Pam herself told law enforcement that Betsy had entrusted her to save the money for her children. She said, I'm going to make you the beneficiary if you could, when my daughters are older, give them some money. Betsy was terminally ill, and Pam had said that Betsy told her she didn't trust her husband to dole out the money responsibly. She was crystal clear on that.
But now? Do you recall telling detectives that Betsy told you, when my daughters are older, give them money? I don't recall that. Do you recall telling the police that you were financially set and didn't need money from the insurance policy? That's correct. So are you saying it's possible that you did? I'm not saying anything. I'm saying I don't recall. Couldn't remember that sacred promise to Betsy at all?
But it's okay. Two-thirds of the payout, $100,000, was safe in a trust for the girls, untouched. Right? But then one of the lawyers asked Pam, does that trust still exist? And she said, I have revoked the trust entirely. When did you do that? Last Friday. Last Friday. She did revoke the trust fund.
But it wasn't last Friday. She took the money back pretty much right after Russ's murder conviction. When you say you revoked it, what do you mean by that? I closed out the account. And why did you do that? After hearing the deposition of Leah and Mariah, what they said about me and how hurtful they were, I closed it. So many mismatched stories. They couldn't all be true. Yet Pam didn't seem particularly concerned.
Maybe she should have been, though. When Russ's attorney, Joel, heard about the closing of the trust, what did he think? Manna from heaven. The break he'd been waiting for. I'm Keith Morrison, and this is The Thing About Pam, Dateline NBC's newest podcast. Joel Schwartz was horrified by the events at that first trial. I've never seen anything like it. He might even have told the judge something about wanting to bang his head against the bench.
But several months later, he was feeling slightly more hopeful. He had to undo what he believed was a legal travesty. And this new evidence could get Russ another trial. It could give him a second shot at freedom. I firmly believe if a jury hears all of the evidence, that there's not a jury in this country that can convict Russ. And by all the evidence, he meant really everything to do with Pam.
In this episode, we're going to dig into all that evidence. The weird trust fund game, the conflicting explanations, all of them recorded. Things about the night of the murder that the jury in Russ's first trial never got to hear. The jury didn't hear Joel argue that an alternate suspect existed, that Pam was... The last person...
With the victim. That Pam was... Given the victim's insurance under who knows what pretenses. Given the chance, Joel would also have argued that Pam lied about where she was when she called Betsy the night of the murder. You called her when you got home? That's right. I called Betsy to tell her I was home. Was that her final answer?
No. She also remembered calling Betsy on the way home. Were you on the road still or at home? Oh, I was on the road. Actually, I called her because she's afraid. I always get lost in Troy and it's really dark.
So actually, I was still in Troy. I either said, I'm on my way or I'm home already. And the flip-flopping goes on and on. But if you really looked at phone records, I think if you really look at my words, so if you really checked your information, if you look at my text message, it wasn't exactly she wanted me to make sure the girls were taken care of.
If only Joel could get a different judge to listen. Because he had more than just conflicting stories. He had Pam's cell phone data. Remember, the night Betsy died, Pam drove her home. They arrived outside Betsy's place around 7 p.m. Pam phoned her husband, Mark. And Betsy said a quick hi as well. Innocuous enough, she said.
But Pam's next call even had the police, albeit briefly, questioning her story. At 727, there's a call from Pam Hupp's cell phone to Betsy's cell phone. The police had asked Pam Hupp about that call and why she called her, and initially she stated, I called her to let her know I was home safe.
Well, I don't know what clued the police in, but they thought about it for a moment, and they thought if you called your husband at 7:04 and the next call's at 7:27, it's impossible for you to have been home at that time. It's at least a half an hour's drive. The cell tower triangulation showed that she had not gotten more than, at the very most, about three miles from the house. At the very least, she was still at the house.
So, Pam was possibly still at Betsy's house, or near it at least, at the very time Betsy was stabbed to death. That's what the evidence seemed to be suggesting. And that didn't grab the attention of investigators?
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With all these inconsistencies, Joel decided to look for other possible holes in the prosecution's case, like that polygraph test, the one Russ took when he was bleary-eyed, hours into interrogation. Every polygraph I've ever been involved with was always audio-taped and video-taped, and the results were preserved.
In this particular case, they said the video and audio was not working and the machine somehow malfunctioned so the record was not preserved. And then something happened that I've simply never seen before. The lead investigator on the case gave Pam some helpful advice, timely advice.
You now have this money and have not turned any of this money over to the family or the kids. That's correct. That's a huge problem. What are the possibilities of you getting that trust set up for the girls before the trial? He encouraged Pam to hurry up, open that trust, so that at the upcoming trial for Russ Faria, she could avoid looking down.
Well, guilty. They're going to suggest that you may have had something to do with the planning or conspiracy to commit that murder because of your financial windfall. Pam opened the trust. But as you know, only for a little while. So who was this woman who somehow persuaded detectives and a prosecutor to see it all through her eyes? Who avoided the suspicion of Betsy's family? After all, she didn't have a solid alibi at all.
and had Betsy's money in her bank account. So who is Pam Hupp? It's hard to say for sure, but we do know one thing. She can tell one hell of a story. My name is Jeanette Cooperman. I'm the staff writer for St. Louis Magazine, and the article I wrote about Pam Hupp was called The Unimaginable Infamous Case of Pam Hupp. Jeanette Cooperman dug for what she could find
Pam's childhood? Downright unremarkable. Yeah, she had this really respectable, sweet family, kind of Ozzie and Harriet sort of thing. Her mom was a beloved schoolteacher. The kids grew up in Delwood, which is a kind of mix of blue-collar and white-collar, but all the lawns are neat and trim and the houses are sweet and everybody kind of tries hard.
Word is, the worst she ever did was skip Mass on Sunday. The family was Catholic. But, according to Jeanette, the teenage Pam had one Achilles' heel.
Boys is a common story as old as time. Come senior year, she fell in love with somebody who was really desirable, and she got pregnant. So they had to get married. In the end, the relationship didn't last. But eventually she got married a second time to a quiet guy who worked in construction, Mark Hopp.
It was during that second marriage that Pam struck up a friendship with a part-time disc jockey named Betsy Faria. Betsy and Pam met while working together at State Farm Insurance. They were casual friends. It was years later when Betsy got cancer that Pam seemed to insinuate herself a little more into Betsy's life. When she was really pursuing a friendship with Betsy, it's the first time I could find that she ever did that.
It was out of character. Pam didn't have that kind of friendship, at least that I could find, with anybody. Did she just like Betsy? Or was it something else? After weeks of reporting, Jeanette said it was hard to pin Pam down. Throughout life, she was this odd combination of well-liked without many friends. She had a certain charm that was not...
the way you would usually define charm. She didn't cajole or flatter or go out of her way, but there was something about her that put people at ease and made them like her. There was something engaging about her. Oh, and the police loved her. The Lincoln County cops, you could tell, had her back. I mean, they enjoyed talking to her. They would, you know, joke around with her. The prosecutor, I think, enjoyed her.
But we at Dateline wanted to hear more about Pam from Pam herself. So my producer Kathy reached out to her after the trial.
I probably called Pam in December of 2013. I don't remember specifically talking to her then, but I did then carry on a texting relationship with her. And my first text with her was December 18, 2013. I wanted to get a copy of the trust, and she sent it to me by text. She wrote to me, though, good luck with your story. Merry Christmas.
But then Kathy, being Kathy, which is a bit relentless, got a little pushy. Later in January 2014, when I got the go-ahead to do the story, I asked Pam about doing an interview with us, and she said no, but that doesn't stop me from trying. And I asked her again later in January, would she interview with us? And she said, no, thank you, appreciate you asking.
I said to her then, I may call you down the road as we discussed just to ask you questions. Thanks and have a nice weekend. And she wrote back, stay warm. I wrote back, thanks. Polite, right? And they continue texting. Reporters and sources pop into each other's lives this way for months. You stay in touch. You get used to hearing from each other. It's friendly, but not friendship.
I said, we're working on our Dateline report and are wondering if you have any photos of yourself that we can borrow so you would look best on TV.
And she just would not send me a better picture. And she didn't have pictures. And I'm like, well, hey, the thing. Today, everybody has a camera on their phone. Just have your husband take a picture of you. And she just refused. Kathy went back and forth with Pam about this photo for a while. Pam didn't tell Kathy to stop reaching out. But she also didn't get her a picture. So finally, Kathy tried one last tactic.
She texted the only image she had of Pam, which was a very unflattering police photo. I sent her the photo I had of her, and she wrote back, scary. Let's check around. But she never did send me a picture. It was hard to know what to make of her. I don't think she's that easy to read because she comes off as so confident. You don't really know what's inside her head. Pam was polite for months.
But the truth is she gave us nothing. So why did she keep Kathy on the hook? At the time it was frustrating but unremarkable, for us at least. But for Pam, she got something from Kathy. It would take years for us to know what. When we were trying to talk to Pam, Joel was working on an appeal. He had new evidence. Enough, he thought, for a special kind of appeal.
It's termed a Mooney motion based upon what's called newly discovered evidence. And now he had some. The closed trust. This, in my view, was so egregious that we had filed this motion, hoping that the Court of Appeals would hear it and then send it back for reconsideration, which is what they did. Joel was confident, but that didn't mean he wouldn't get burned, because the chances of his motion succeeding are...
Incredibly rare, having happened only three times previously in the state of Missouri. Ever? Ever. But surprise, surprise, he got a hearing.
Joel's big shot to plead his case to the judge. A different judge, Stephen Omer. The hearing lasted maybe an hour and a half to two hours. He took it under submission at maybe 11 a.m. After which Judge Omer got up and said he'd think about it and went back to chambers. The judge said he would rule at 1.30. And at 1.30, no judge. I started to get a little nervous because he'd had plenty of time. And to write motion granted doesn't take very long.
However, if you're going to write a denial that's going to go to the Court of Appeals, it could take quite a while. So at 1:45, I started to get a lot nervous. I thought there's no good reason for this. Finally, about 2 o'clock, I talked to one of the sheriffs and I was down at this point and I thought, "We're going to lose this thing." I asked what was going on if he knew and the sheriff told me that there was a printer problem. The analog world can sure deliver on drama.
So at that point, my spirits were lifted and I thought, okay, we still may win this. And the judge came out moments later. There was a pregnant pause. He started to talk. And an amazing thing happened. The judge decided Joel was right. The moody motion was granted. I had talked to Russ along with the rest of his family and asked to please show no emotion regarding what the ruling was. And everyone sat quietly. Frankly, you could hear a pin drop.
Afterwards, I went back to see Russ in the holding cell, and he was smiling ear to ear. Gave me a big hug. I think he lifted me off the ground. So it was fulfilling at that point. After the motion was granted and the celebration was over, Joel started preparing for a second trial. And that's when he found more things that troubled him. An officer had suggested at the first trial...
that a chemical test called Luminol had pinpointed a trail of blood leading to the kitchen. That's where Russ made his 911 call. When blood or cleaning products are detected on the surface, Luminol lights up. The officer said he took photos of this bloody trail leading to the kitchen. But because his camera malfunctioned, the photos were all black. The jury would just have to trust him.
Only, when Joel looked at those photos, it was pretty clear the camera had been just fine. But the photos revealed nothing had been illuminated. In other words, the luminol test had not indicated a bloody trail at all, even though the officer said it did. The evidence that was contained on those photographs was contradictory entirely from everything and anything the officer testified. That's right.
Joel was quite sure the officer knew full well that pictures of the crime scene did not support their conclusion. So they suppressed them. Perjury? It's a strong word. It's a strong allegation. It's not an inaccurate allegation, though. We called Lincoln County investigators many times asking for an interview. They declined. Kathy did speak on the phone to one of the detectives on that case, though, Mike Merkel. He didn't comment on the photos.
But he rejected Joel's allegations of perjury. So now, Russ was released and soon he would get a second day in court. But of course, there was one thing Joel couldn't predict. Pam's next move. As trial number two approached, the prosecution sent Joel its evidence. Its new evidence. A recording, an interview of Pam talking about Betsy. Joel pressed play.
And what he heard made his jaw drop. So our relationship started pretty soon, fast. I was a huge confidante of hers. So she knew that she could talk to me about anything. So that, we had a special bond that way. I mean, we just spent a whole lot of time together, you know. I did, I replaced what a husband would be. What her husband would be? Was she saying Betsy was more than a friend?
It's honestly a relationship with two women who really aren't attracted to women. It's not, I'm attracted to men, love everything about them. But she's the same way. It's not like she was a lesbian or anything. It wasn't like it was such an evolution of emotional trauma for her. Pam and Betsy had been lovers? The story had taken twists and turns, but that one, even I didn't see that coming.
Next time on The Thing About Pam, would this new intimate relationship cloud the case against Russ? Or would he be acquitted after all? The Thing About Pam is brought to you by Dateline NBC.
From Dateline NBC, Kathy Singer and Christine Fillmore are producers. Jackie Montalvo is the associate producer. Susan Nall oversees our digital programming. Adam Gorfain is our senior broadcast producer. Liz Cole is our executive producer. David Corvo is our senior executive producer.
At NBC News, Steve Lichtai is the executive producer of podcasts and Barbara Rabb is the senior producer of podcasts. From Neon Hum Media, Mary Knopf is the producer. Natalie Wren is the associate producer. Catherine St. Louis is the editor. Jonathan Hirsch is the executive producer. Sound design and mixing by Scott Somerville. Additional mixing by Meneka Wilhelm. Original music by Andrew Eapin.
Additional production support from Tanner Robbins, Natalie Bader, and Betty Marquez Rosales.
